PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: LeonardPabin on December 24, 2005, 11:39:28 pm
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I decided to be rude and edit all of my posts after a long discussion has already taken place, rendering it somewhat useless.
A small shadow slithers away, with a suspicious likeness to Karyuu.
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I don\'t see why certain things are used, while others are completely banned...but you\'re not going to get anything done with this post, I hope you realize.
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Merry Christmas to you too ;) Talad, the head of the project, has already stated rather firmly that there will be no dragons in PlaneShift. I\'m not so sure it\'s the \"originality\" factor that plays into this, but more the \"it\'s-been-done-and-done-and-done-again\" bit. Dragons can be twisted around to be rather unique, but change them enough and they\'re no longer dragons, and something else. To learn previous arguments, both for and against, please (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/images/psnew/top_suche.gif) (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/search.php), as there have been plenty of discussions concerning this issue in the past.
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Why argue a topic thats been decided and wont be changed. the devs made a decision and i hope they keep it.
Originally posted by LeonardPabin
Everything has been done to hell, thats...........
I dont think anyone has had a Tefusang, or a clacker before?? unless im mistaken these havnt been used until now (or when PS came out)
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LEt the devs do what they wanna do sheesh dragons or not we have cool looking flying things there you go problem solved everyone wins.
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?I don?t think anyone has had a Tefusang, or a clacker before???
I?m sure you don?t have to look that hard to find a concept or something that resembles them.
I just think it could be detrimental to the development of ideas and concepts when you limit yourself to any possible ideas. Someone might come up with something totally incredible involving dragons.
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Someone might, but so far no one has ;) Besides, PlaneShift already has its giant flying lizards:
The Pterosaurs are reptiles with organs adapted to flight, such as their membranous wings and long tails, which they use as a rudder. The Pterosaurs\' dimensions vary from three to six meters, not including their tails, and their wingspan is directly proportionate to their bodies.
Why request dragons in addition to this?
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Yes, this \"no mythological creatures\" thing holds up so well...
/me points at the pet griffins :P
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I don\'t see how, when it\'s a matter of preference with the head of the project ;)
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I want to stick wool onto a dragon that breathes chocolate instead of fire and has jelly beans as feet... but nobody will listen :(
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Can we just lock every thread that says \"I want dragons!!\"
Its really annoying by now. And I know that you guys are just gonna go \"well don\'t look at anything that talks about dragons\" We have a dragon like thing, people aren\'t happy with that... So let me ask everyone that wants the oh soo vague descrpition of \"dragons\" : If we have something that is like a dragon and you complain, would it be any different if we just renamed it Dragon instead of Klyros and gave it a different head?
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I don?t even care about dragons; I care about the process in which ideas can best be developed that will benefit the game. And I don?t believe that excluded anything flat out is in the interest of that process
I know that there are things other than dragons, that are being just flat out excluded. I?m just using dragons as an example
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Originally posted by LeonardPabin
I don?t even care about dragons; I care about the process in which ideas can best be developed that will benefit the game. And I don?t believe that excluded anything flat out is in the interest of that process
I know that there are things other than dragons, that are being just flat out excluded. I?m just using them as an example
lol then what was the point of this thread?? to annoy people? or did you actually care and now your saying that to cover up and agreee with everyone?
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What ideas, besides using typical \"dragons,\" \"horses,\" \"orcs/goblins,\" \"fairies,\" \"mermaids,\" or whatever else there is? Clearly similar creatures exist or will exist (Pterosaurs, Groffels, Gobbles, etc.), but they won\'t be the exact same thing. Where is the issue?
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Well I can see the purpose of trying to create a world filled with custom and original content.
Thus if there is a giant flying lizard thats similar to a dragon but called a (i dunno) Murlitchonen it serves the same purpose.
Dragon in all is just a language specific word for a myhological magical flying serpent. Funny mythologically most were flying serpents and not flying lizards.
However when I see one in game I\'m still going to go \"Oh look a dragon.\" or \"Oh look a goblin.\" No matter what it is named.
Such as if a character is tall, and slim, and has pointy ears. No matter what the race in the game is called they\'re going to be elves to everyone.
So is it the developers say \"We\'re going to have no dragons.\" and mean either \"No mythological stereotypical flying serpents with magical powers.\" or they mean \"We\'re not following typical naming conventions or fantasy fluff.\"
Thus you can have dragon like creatures but for game fluff reasons you won\'t find any \"dragons\" they will be called something else.
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Well put Trinx, well put.
And Leonard Im srry for the Anger i had in my last posts, i was in a bad mood due to some personal reasons.
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hmm well Leonard you\'re not alone. Looking at what someone else is really saying or trying to say is very uncommon if people like bashing what you appear to say. Althhough I am glad to say it seems to have gotten a little better the last months. ;)
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Originally posted by Karyuu
What ideas, besides using typical \"dragons,\" \"horses,\" \"orcs/goblins,\" \"fairies,\" \"mermaids,\" or whatever else there is? Clearly similar creatures exist or will exist (Pterosaurs, Groffels, Gobbles, etc.), but they won\'t be the exact same thing. Where is the issue?
Personally I think the issue is that aforementioned terms are part of our history and passed on believes. Creatures like dragons and fairies were parts of medieval culture and when you replace those with something completely new... It\'s like annihilating many beautiful aspects of those times.
It\'s somewhere deep down in our culture, our ancestors believed in those... It really seems somewhat magical.
Gobble, Tefusang... Those have very little meaning and I guess are nothing more than monsters from a game.
Originality is good, sure. But when it destroys certain aspects, I don\'t think it is proper anymore. Many of the mythological creatures could be shown in a different light. That would be a beauty of originality. In any case, something seriously well thought out.
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What I don\'t get is why you guys think that the \"no dragons\" rule wasn\'t thought out? You don\'t think the Developers thought long and hard about all the aspects of the game, including what to put in and what to leave out? PS is such a great game because of its \"alien yet familiar\" theme. It\'s not set on mythological Earth, its set on an entirely new planet, with an entirely new and unique ecosystem and evolutionary paths for its species. That\'s the whole beauty of it. \"No dragons\" is fine by me because PS doesn\'t need them - why use these old, Earth ideas when PS has nothing to do with that mythos? I love the whole story and atmosphere and novelty of PS, that\'s the core of the game that works so well, do we really need to mess with that just so people can cling to their familiar old ideas of what a fantasy RPG should include?
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Since this world is powered by a crystal, why not have beings based on that. Since there are crystals to be found(or were), perhaps there could be crystal egg laying creatures. One could fly without wings on the crystal winds and be magical in the glyph sort of way. They could be by-products of glyph use or crystal existence or any of a million permutations.
They could be extremely hard to kill and rewards for killing them occasionally rewards a rare glyph. Maybe this could curb the need for dragons, since this world is unique. It would be an archetype of this world that is dragon-like, but unique to this game world.
EDIT: Well put Ross, you posted while I was writing this one.
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Originally posted by ross.burns
It\'s not set on mythological Earth, its set on an entirely new planet
And yet we have humans, elves, dwarves, griffon-alike pet, architecture resembling of norseland, western Europe, middle East and oriental countries.
Why I think the originality wasn\'t thought out? It\'s half-done.
Edit: And rats too.
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It\'s still not set on mythological earth even if there are numerous similarities. You will always be able to equate one thing to another in some way, like my crystalline creatures will resemble something(even if they don\'t resemble dragons). While certain aspects of PlaneShift might be similar, PlaneShift is a different world with a different atmosphere.
To add all elements of another fantasy world into this would destroy what has been created and thought out.
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dragons are part of the cultures of different countries, but also with different shapes, some blowing fire in europe, shaking hearth in asia, ... wich one to implement?
Is it mandatory to include and adapt anything just because it is part of the general knowledge of most people?
What about some light saber using the colors of the magic ways? with semi-monks fighting like samurais using them?
It is possible too...but it is not because it is possible that it mandatory.
Let the devs decide of what is Yliakum without jumping on more clich?s than the ones already used to make it easier to assimilate the world. As Draklar said there are already many in use to help people catch the essence of items without asking themselves \"what\'s that\" in front of a book that would be spherical.
Not everyone feels at ease with the architecture of DR already.
It is not a question of closed or open mind. It is only that decisions have to be made. Ulbernauts are not bears, enkidukais are not cats, Ylians not monkeys, and klyros are not dragons either. If you think they are you may question yourself on how much your mind is opened to the world of Yliakum
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Originally posted by Kythag
While certain aspects of PlaneShift might be similar, PlaneShift is a different world with a different atmosphere.
Umm?
When I look at Hydlaa... filled with western European elements, with characters running in clothes normal for that region... And then looking at Ojaveda and its obvious similarities to the middle east...
Where exactly do you take the different atmosphere from?
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Well....
Since I am American, those elements would be foreign to me anyway. That might be why I feel differently about it.
I was on the kitten thread(I hate cats, but I had to see what was going on in there.), and I get the impression being American here is being in the minority.
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The atmosphere is not limited to the shapes of the buildings (and as I already stated, it\'s the \"alien yet FAMILIAR\" feel of the game that, for me, makes the atmosphere - afterall, no Bedouin build saucer shaped tents held up on stilts, and no Western villages had the spiky, blade like architectural designs). I guess I get the atmosphere from all the small differences... you know, the entire world contained inside a giant stalactite in a planet-sized cave, just the little things like that. Do we really need dragons too?
Edited to remove awful typo.
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[nerd alert]
I\'m just wondering how you would expect the dragons to survive in PS. Assuming you want a good size dragon, and if you have dragons why go half-way, if you want a good size dragon it\'s not going to fit very well :P.
I mean a dragon has to eat six sheep-sized creatures a day minimum. We all know they tend to pig out and would probably eat twice that number. And dwarves don\'t count because they\'re too chewy;). If you had five dragons that would be alot of food. PS just doesn\'t have quite that creature count.
And I don\'t know how large the first level is going to be, but as it is, there isn\'t any room for the things to fly around. Dragon\'s need miles to roam for things like food and damsels ect. As it is, they\'d hit the ceiling or fly into the crystal without thinking.
Then there\'s the question of how the buggers got there in the first place. Dragon\'s aren\'t much for cave crawling. Sure they\'ll make a gold horde in a mountain, but it has to be a mountain. They like height. There\'s no good reason for them to have traveled miles underground to get to Yliakum.
[/silly nerdiness]
To be serious, PS is trying to not be run-of-the-mill, so there\'s an attempt to make the world unique. This is of course not totally possible, but I think that they are doing a fine job of it.
True the humans look like humans, the dwarves...dwarves, but remember that they are \'alien\' to Yliakum. Every other creature (I assume) was created from the crystal when the twin gods hollowed out the land.
As for the assimilation of ideas, PS is not democratic. It\'s run by some people who go to great lengths to make things fun for you.
But it\'s their world, we are merely guests. Just stop and try to imagine the mess if they tried to implement every thought. I personally want the PS world to be tight, with no gaping holes or un-solvable questions of \"how?\" caused by wanton creation.
I appluade the amount of things they agree too as it is. I personally write stories and I think I would bite you if you suggested changing things^^.
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About dragons, play ADOM a bit. You seem to have really limited views on the dragons (which in fact would limit the originality :P). And no space for flying? That\'s insane o.o
Look at the picture of Yliakum on the website. Not only space above each level isn\'t limited by anything, but also the center area with nothing but free space is absolutely huge.
Ross: Slight changes in building shapes don\'t count as differences in architecture if their esthetic effect remains the same :P
So far the only atmosphere differences I felt in Planeshift was that it all feels like a game more than a virtual world. Frankly, I can\'t feel any different when I look at Tefusang :P
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I should point out that Talad actually said that there\'s no reason that Dragons don\'t exist in other planes, so guilds and people can have them in their history and stuff because the population came from different planes. But dragons don\'t and won\'t exist in any of the planes that PS will have, and won\'t ever be in PS settings.
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Bah, I was in one of them moods yesterday. Just ignore my ranting Draklar. Sorry:p, I wasn\'t thinking straight about the flying bit, although I still stand by some of my other thoughts.