PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: shorty13 on December 29, 2005, 08:42:31 pm
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How much damage have you guys seen someone do with an axe? I was wondering if they even come close to swords damage wise.
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If I remember correctly Axes don\'t do quite as much damage as a sword and are not quite as quick as a shortsword, so it would have to be a measure of damage done over time.
Someone with knowledge of the scripting that allows for speed stats of weapons and how they apply would know for sure, but someone could potentially measure this at the two merc station at the arena. Take two character with identical stats except have same stats in sword and axe. They time their attacks to be synchronous and see which drops first. I think a comparison of the 50 slash and 54 slash weapons would be appropriate, but it could be done with the standard axe and longsword as well.
Has someone done this yet?
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Hmm... My character has dark longswords and a fire battle-axe, so I believe I could take care of that. Or was there a wipe when I wasn\'t looking?
But either way, can\'t as I have comp issues.
But it shouldn\'t be hard to compare the slash count of both types, really...
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Originally posted by shorty13
How much damage have you guys seen someone do with an axe? I was wondering if they even come close to swords damage wise.
The battle axe isn\'t bad. It deals more damage than the typical sword, and isn\'t too slow. Faster than a broadsword and almost as powerful.
The small battle axe is a teeny bit less powerful than a shortsword, and also a bit slower than a shortsword. I consider a battle axe and small battle axe to be a good combination in battle, but that\'s just for flavour.
The normal axe (hatchet) is the best basic weapon in the game, hands down. It\'s damage to speed ratio is the best, hands down. The only weapon which is faster is the dagger, but the hatchet (axe) deals considerably more damage. There are a few problems:
i) The axe does not have a fire version. It only exists as a basic axe, or as an ancient great axe which cannot be equipped.
ii) If you don\'t deal enough to kill in one hit, but the other guy does, it doesn\'t matter if you hit him first. It\'s last blood, not first blood, that counts.
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So how do they compare with like 54 damage broad swords and 50 damage axes at a high level each?
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I just got a 50 slash fire axe, and I could equip it. Another character besides Kythag, by the way. This character is Dermorian with light strength and endurance(I\'ve estimated HP to be about 40-45 hp), and this character is able to equip it. The highest stat this character has is 80 Willpower. So there are fire axes out there that can be equipped, though I suspect my axe is EXTREMELY rare.
I am now working on developing a way to compare the power of swords vs. the power of the axe. If someone versed in the programming language of PS could examine the code for the formulas that determine the timing the Speed stat gives each weapon, I could come up with a formula to determine a damage per time interval stat that lays out which weapon is better for beefy fighters and agile fighters, etc.
I am beginning to believe daggers levelled to high levels would be best.
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I think making a calculation of slash/speed would be quite safe for start :P
But I\'m basing it on belief that speed 2 is twice as slow as speed 1, so it would be counted as 1/2, whereas 1 would be 1/1.
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I am not sure that works because Kythag was carrying a CLaymore(speed 5) and a Broadsword(speed 3), and this didn\'t seem to be the case. I believe the speed stat affects long term timing(It adds up over the course of x number of attack cycles). I know that Kythag kills Trepor more quickly with 2 40 slash shortswords then he did with a 64 slash/10 blunt claymore and a 54 slash broadsword.
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What is the speed of those three types of weapons?
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Speeds:
claymore - 5
broad swords - 3
axes - 2.3
longsword - 2.1
shortsword - ?
steel falcion - 2
dagger - 1.4
pick axe - n/a
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Shortswords have a speed of 2 as well.
Edit: What are the damage ratings of Falchions, from lowest to highest? I have also been wondering if they count as daggers or swords.
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According to my calculations based on what I posted above, claymore + broadsword would have a bit over 4/5 of the power of dual shortswords. So indeed, the shortswords would kill faster.
Furthermore, according to it, a claymore is a really lousy weapon, reaching only 3/4 of the shortsword\'s efficiency.
Broadsword would be at 9/10
Since I remember longsword\'s slash is 44, I calculated that the longsword is more efficient than the shortsword, reaching almost 21/20 of its power.
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Cool, that sounds about right! How would a 50 slash axe with a 2.3 speed fall into that?
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Axe\'s efficiency would be slightly higher than longsword\'s in that case.
Claymore has only 68% of axe\'s efficiency.
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That answers the question of the thread, and I have to start levelling my axe skill on Dermos. I just got a 50 slash axe dropped on me, so I gotta utlize it. Thanx for the info. I actually suck at math, so my formula would likely have been flawed. Just got my sword skill to 10 too.
:\\
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u lost me a bit, wanna put that in an order of some kind?
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Well the efficiencies I calculated (for fire/dark/frosty weapons):
Claymore: 14.8
Broadsword: 18
Shortsword: 20
Longsword: 20.9
Battle-Axe: 21.7
This will be true if my assumption of how the system works is right.
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We definetly need more stats, its future of PS! Unfortunately without that rp bit which so many people want to keep.
But why do i care? It\'s afterall only a damn game.
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Originally posted by shorty13
So how do they compare with like 54 damage broad swords and 50 damage axes at a high level each?
Didn\'t you read my post? I answered this in detail.
Besides, broadswords SUCK. They\'re way too slow.
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oops sry zanzibar
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Zanzibar:
Draklar provided stats which is what we were looking for. They may or may not be accurate, but the numbers give everyone a chance to come to their own conclusion about which weapon to use.
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Originally posted by Kythag
Zanzibar:
Draklar provided stats which is what we were looking for. They may or may not be accurate, but the numbers give everyone a chance to come to their own conclusion about which weapon to use.
The numbers are available in game, unless they\'ve been taken out of item descriptions since last I played. Assuming that they\'re still available in game, I don\'t see a good reason to start a thread about them since they\'re just numbers.
Now, if you\'re looking for opinions and discussion, that\'s a good reason to start a thread, and that\'s what I offered.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
The numbers are available in game, unless they\'ve been taken out of item descriptions since last I played. Assuming that they\'re still available in game, I don\'t see a good reason to start a thread about them since they\'re just numbers.
Those aren\'t the numbers Kythag talks about.
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Originally posted by Draklar
Originally posted by zanzibar
The numbers are available in game, unless they\'ve been taken out of item descriptions since last I played. Assuming that they\'re still available in game, I don\'t see a good reason to start a thread about them since they\'re just numbers.
Those aren\'t the numbers Kythag talks about.
\"Well the efficiencies I calculated (for fire/dark/frosty weapons):
Claymore: 14.8
Broadsword: 18
Shortsword: 20
Longsword: 20.9
Battle-Axe: 21.7
This will be true if my assumption of how the system works is right.\"
That would do it. I made a list like that (only more comprehensive) when the numbers first became available, but I\'ve since turned my back on it. The problem is the numbers still lie, except for situations where you\'re making a lot of hits over a long period of time against a single target. If the other guy will die in two or three hits, or even one hit, you have to look at different factors. Even if broadsword had a rating greater than 20, shortsword would still be better because it deals more than enough damage and it does so well before the broadsword. And if a dagger doesn\'t deal enough damage to kill in one hit, it doesn\'t matter how fast it is if the other guy is using a longsword or battle axe which are both dramatically slower but at the same time more powerful.
That\'s why you can\'t just give numbers. And besides, is it so difficult to divide those numbers in game and in your head?
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Originally posted by zanzibar
That\'s why you can\'t just give numbers. And besides, is it so difficult to divide those numbers in game and in your head?
I cannot but notice the thread in which we post exists. I think its existance should answer your question.
about the rest of your post, that list is pretty much meant for monster-fighting..?
Why do you automatically switch weapon power to usability in pvp? Of course it wouldn\'t be right in such case, people actually have light armour skills.
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Originally posted by Draklar
Originally posted by zanzibar
That\'s why you can\'t just give numbers. And besides, is it so difficult to divide those numbers in game and in your head?
I cannot but notice the thread in which we post exists. I think its existance should answer your question.
about the rest of your post, that list is pretty much meant for monster-fighting..?
Why do you automatically switch weapon power to usability in pvp? Of course it wouldn\'t be right in such case, people actually have light armour skills.
Shouldn\'t you look at both uses?
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The numbers Draklar provided are meant to be guide for making up your own mind about weapons in game. They were never meant to be viewed as pinpoint accurate.
You can, however, use whatever system you want to decide what weapons you will use. We can use whatever system we decide to use to decide what weapons we will use. You can disagree with ours, and we can disagree with yours. In the end, we will still disagree.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
Shouldn\'t you look at both uses?
The question was how does the damage dealt by axe stand in comparison with the swords. I answered that.
Now if someone wants to figure out the further usability in various situations, another aspects should be put into consideration.
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Originally posted by Kythag
The numbers Draklar provided are meant to be guide for making up your own mind about weapons in game. They were never meant to be viewed as pinpoint accurate.
You can, however, use whatever system you want to decide what weapons you will use. We can use whatever system we decide to use to decide what weapons we will use. You can disagree with ours, and we can disagree with yours. In the end, we will still disagree.
I sure hope you aren\'t serious! Personally, I think the most important factor in what weapon you pick is how you role-play your character. Me personally, I use daggers and small battle axes (with 38 slash). Why? Because I\'m an elf! I don\'t feel that an elf should use a full sized battle axe, since and elf, to my mind, values dexterity over brute power. I use daggers because my character is more roguish, and so its useful to have weapons you can easily conceal yet keep at the ready.
And if you are just set on figuring out which is the best weapon, those power ratios are still not a very good measure. You may have to judge it from the first hit, which means that a Broadsword starts off pretty damn efficiently, but looses over time to the shortsword, longsword, etc. If the broadsword deals enough damage to kill in one hit, but the shortsword doesn\'t, then the broadsword gives an advantage. If neither can kill in one hit but the shortswords kills in two, then it doesn\'t matter if the broadsword delivers overkill the second time around.
If you do it by the numbers, there are too many variables and I don\'t feel that it makes such a big difference in the end. Just RP it. Except for the claymore, all of the weapons are fine to use.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
I sure hope you aren\'t serious! Personally, I think the most important factor in what weapon you pick is how you role-play your character. Me personally, I use daggers and small battle axes (with 38 slash). Why? Because I\'m an elf! I don\'t feel that an elf should use a full sized battle axe, since and elf, to my mind, values dexterity over brute power. I use daggers because my character is more roguish, and so its useful to have weapons you can easily conceal yet keep at the ready.
Normally a warrior would just use a weapon which works best...
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I do RP my weapons. We are curious as to which is the most efficient. Draklar has taken time to hash those numbers out. If you take missing hits into account, missing with one weapon will still be more efficient than missing with a less efficient weapon.
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Originally posted by Kythag
I do RP my weapons. We are curious as to which is the most efficient. Draklar has taken time to hash those numbers out. If you take missing hits into account, missing with one weapon will still be more efficient than missing with a less efficient weapon.
Like I said, Draklar isn\'t the only one to get those numbers, and it\'s nothing you can\'t just casually do in your head. Unless you\'re poor at math, mmm?
And like I said, you\'re still speaking gibberish because \"efficiency\" is situational.
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Gibberish? Explain how efficiency is gibberish.
EDIT: I already stated I was poor at math. Restating that has only the purpose of throwing it in my face. You have annoying habits. I can throw them in your face if you would like! Don\'t make me regret my olive branch!
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Originally posted by Kythag
Gibberish? Explain how efficiency is gibberish.
EDIT: I already stated I was poor at math. Restating that has only the purpose of throwing it in my face. You have annoying habits. I can throw them in your face if you would like! Don\'t make me regret my olive branch!
Ah, I sincerely didn\'t know you made a post saying you were poor at math. Darklar has already demonstrated that I haven\'t payed close enough attention to this thread.
Oh, and you haven\'t given me an olive branch or any other sign of peace, I\'m afraid. You were acting like a child. You recieved a slap on the wrist. Don\'t pretend it\'s anything more than that.
Your talk about efficiency was gibberish because you aren\'t taking a holistic view. Your view isn\'t holistic because you aren\'t taking into account different needs for different situations. All of this doesn\'t matter though, because the difference between most weapons is negligible except for PVP.
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Apparently, you haven\'t read the other post I made. Go read it before you continue calling me names!
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Okay, please stop it now.
Question was made, answered by displaying approximate power of weapons, which should work for getting a general idea of what to use (for example axe isn\'t bad at all, so why not use it?).
Let\'s stop it at that, add some new info. But not argue over it.
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Originally posted by Kythag
Apparently, you haven\'t read the other post I made. Go read it before you continue calling me names!
I haven\'t called you any names, and I don\'t feel like reading your other post. If you feel it\'s truly worthwhile to read, provide me with a link.
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Then don\'t read my post, continue making subtle comments designed to take shots at me, and continue not taking any responsiblity for anything you do. I am through trying to make peace with you(on the occasions that I have). I can continue to trade these little jibes with you forever.
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Originally posted by Kythag
Then don\'t read my post, continue making subtle comments designed to take shots at me, and continue not taking any responsiblity for anything you do. I am through trying to make peace with you(on the occasions that I have). I can continue to trade these little jibes with you forever.
What am I supposed to say? You\'ve been making very overt, rather nasty comments about me in near half a dozen threads, and I\'m supposed to feel guilty because I\'ve made a few \"subtle comments\"?
And like I said, you haven\'t tried to make peace with me, so don\'t make false claims. But if you can act in a peaceful way, that will be good enough!
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I refuse to have the forums filled with such bickering. Hopefully you will understand, as will the readers.