PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Sisilam on December 30, 2005, 12:44:28 am
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Looting a lot of Rubys .. even while I liked the crystal run in MB so much .. I noticed that hundred of rubys will consume a lot space .. so more often than anytime before I wished to have a little Chest. Even for myself!
And one more thing about that .. looting some Rogues .. I found some nice swords which might be usefull for some other new members of my Guild. So I decided to keep them .. but they need still place and weight some kind. So at least there should be a Chest for every Guild which could only opened by Guild Members.
Only Guild Members? .. Not at all .. in fact of the new Lockpicking skill it might be interesting for others to lockpick such Chests to get the Loot. That way also Guild Members have the purpouse to watch their Chest! One more purpouse what Guild members may do/work.
In fact that I cant fight another player even if he actualy try to steal me .. the lockpicking should be impossible or much more difficult if there is a Guild Member next. Or another possibility is .. to make that player hostile and attackable the second he start lockpicking!
Anyhow it might be usefull to have such a Guild Chest to share items to other Members even if they are not online the same time. Which will happen often if one member is in america and teh other is in europe!
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Guild storage is a nice idea, and it is most likely on some list of things to implement in the future.
I doubt however that guilds will use it if there is a possibility that it gets lockpicked and stolen. I mean, if it is possible some way, it will happen, and no guild can be around 24/7 to protect it. And even so, protecting your guild storage sounds extremely boring.
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I like the idea of keeping a guild on its toes. Any idea that makes a guild feel the need to rally creates roleplay ops for people.
Imagine people arguing in character that zanzibar ripped them off, and zanzibar claiming he is innocent.
:D
Then Kythag steps forward saying, \"Kythag big bad sticks, yes.\"
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Yes, a guild chest would be a great addition, however being able to lock pick it is not.
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Heck I\'d love to have a guild chest... I\'m a little pack rat and like to keep every little slightly useful thing i can, including weapons. I\'d love to be able to just store this in the chest and let my members take what they need. But.... Then you might have greedy thieving individuals in your guild who might take items they don\'t need and sell them for money when those less fortunate might actually need them... So maybe there should be a permission thing. Like it asks the guild leader or someone else with a new permission in the guild window saying they can grant permission to take an item. Just my own addition....
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I agree 100% with Farren (btw nice sig). AND no lock picking cuz it just sux getting your entire guild fortune stolen away.
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Yeah, that would suck... No lock picking!!! That really would suck, if you had gathered all this great stuff for your guild and then someone just comes and takes it all away...
Edit: BTW, thx Masoj, made it myself :D
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Hey that would be a great idea.. but maybe tough because it would have to be done in a way that only allowed certain members to open the chest.. Cant have any spies stealing everything you got eh :P.. but yeah it would be great to do.
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Spies? What spies? People are spying? How do you do that?
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Hmm... a thread to drag me all the way over here.
I like the sound of this, though the lock picking is one of the plus points as i see it
AND no lock picking cuz it just sux getting your entire guild fortune stolen away.
Ever heard the phrase about not keeping all your eggs in one basket?
Though someone made the point about guild members not being on 24/7 to watch over it, that could cause problems.
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there are tons of different permission options in your guild options anyway - just add one - stronghold access.. or whatever...simple! :D
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Please this is so need!
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There are many variables in which make a chest for players hard to create, BUT, I know it can be done for guilds because I\'ve seen it before. This would be great to have, even allowing multiple chests for guilds with more of an inventory. Hopefully this can be implemented, I know the dropped items thing isn\'t a problem, the shovel behind Harnquists shack is an example.
Until then, use mules and rp them as a sack or something of the sort.
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Originally posted by Induane
there are tons of different permission options in your guild options anyway - just add one - stronghold access.. or whatever...simple! :D
I think a better (more RP-oriented, rather) option would be to just have multiple keys, and hand them out to trusted individuals only :)
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Originally posted by Karyuu
Originally posted by Induane
there are tons of different permission options in your guild options anyway - just add one - stronghold access.. or whatever...simple! :D
I think a better (more RP-oriented, rather) option would be to just have multiple keys, and hand them out to trusted individuals only :)
I agree that would be great, but then it is the same as giving out slips or badges for invites instead of just giving them the ability to invite.
Which would also be quite cool.
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Badges, eh..? Mm, I got this nifty image of guilds promoting themselves through medieval \"business cards\" :)
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Heh why not...
And then we can make pamphlets!
And posters...
And then planeshift will be laggy as hell because of all the items (posters) Everywhere...
Though I do believe we should get some sort of ingame message board...(I know the ingame roleplay forum but, people don\'t always go there)...I\'m sure it can\'t be too hard, just have it in Book format and quickly go over the weeks upcoming events and such.
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What about personal storage rooms? Not just for guilds but for every single player.
WHY: Because there are players which love to freelance instead of beeing forced to join a guild just because they need storage space.
HOW: ONE room for all people (at the same position ingame) but you only see your own things, when you enter.
I\'m sure you know Diablo II where you can store things in the box in the base camps.
AND: Please NO lockpicking...... thanks.
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Originally posted by Jannis
AND: Please NO lockpicking...... thanks.
If there are rooms or chests with locks, they can be lockpicked. Do you imagine a lock that cannot be lockpicked? That would be completely unrealistic.
To lock a room or a chest, one has to build a lock first. With a high level on lockpicking you could make a lock that is very hard to lockpick and it requires even higher lockpicking skill. So master lockpickers can make locks that only other masters can lockpick. That would create a demand for lockpicking masters and a role for some characters to play.
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Originally posted by Bereror
Originally posted by Jannis
AND: Please NO lockpicking...... thanks.
If there are rooms or chests with locks, they can be lockpicked. Do you imagine a lock that cannot be lockpicked? That would be completely unrealistic.
To lock a room or a chest, one has to build a lock first. With a high level on lockpicking you could make a lock that is very hard to lockpick and it requires even higher lockpicking skill. So master lockpickers can make locks that only other masters can lockpick. That would create a demand for lockpicking masters and a role for some characters to play.
A combonation lock can\'t be \"pick locked\" :P
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But combination locks can be still be defeated!
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Originally posted by shorty13
A combonation lock can\'t be \"pick locked\" :P
Any man-made lock can be opened with or without the \"key\". It requires some extraordinary magic to protect the lock, but another powerful mage could remove the magic and still open it.
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No, but a nice sharp blade could cut it if used by the right person...
Edit: This is about the combination lock, BTW... Or any lock I guess, but :P
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ooh, magical locking and unlocking, I love it! It\'s still fodder for the things we want but will never see. Well some of us anyway :D
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I think that lock picking would be great, think of all the possiblitys!!!!!
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We already have lockpicking, in general :) It\'s a trainable skill.
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How about this? Instead of a chest, each guild gets an NPC that hangs in the Plaza. This NPC is named \"Jane Treasurer of the Dark Shadows Guild\". Guild members can then interact with the NPC. You can walk up, drop off stuff, then continue on your marry way. Higher level guild members can make withdrawals or whatever.
I\'m sure a banker has already been suggested for personal \"accounts\" so I won\'t even bring that up.
Araye
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Eeee... A plaza just filled with guild NPCs? There are a lot of guilds, you know. If that\'s the route you want to take, it would be much better to have just one or two bankers, perhaps one for personal \"accounts\" and one for guilds. Otherwise... Oi!
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um, not to sound like an ass, but the plaza should be PACKED with NPC\'s right now. They should be trading corn, rice, eggs, rugs, carp fish, (oh and friggin\' apples) etc. It should be hard to get through them. Right now this is a world catering to Adventurers. There are very few, if any \"normal folk\".
Anyway, one NPC guild tresurer/banker would be fine too. And you\'re right, I have no idea how many guilds there are.
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Originally posted by Araye
um, not to sound like an ass, but the plaza should be PACKED with NPC\'s right now.
I think Plaza should be packed with characters trading rice, eggs, fish, whatever and not NPCs ;) This is a roleplaying game and anything that can be done by players should be done that way. Game mechanics, NPCs etc. are needed to support roleplay, but not for anything else.
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I think that is taking it just a tad out of the \"planeshift concept\":
\"WHAT IS PLANESHIFT? The objective of the PlaneShift is to create a virtual fantasy world in which a player can start as a peasant in search of fame and become a hero. First of all PlaneShift is a Role Playing Game. Be sure to read our Roleplay guidelines or you will not be able to play this game. We will focus our efforts in the reproduction of a real world with politics, economy, many non-player-characters controlled by the server that will bring to life our world even without players connected!\"
In my opinion, the peasant to hero quest, does not include having to sit in the plaza each day selling the apples we\'ve harvested. That\'s a farmer. Period.
Peasant to hero, is the guy/gal who crawled out from under the cow and thought, \"you know, there must be something better than this. There must be MORE to life.\"
Now I\'m not against those of you who want to role play a farmer. Great! I\'ve got some apples I\'d like to sell you, but I am role playing the peasant to hero as defined by the objective. I expect NPC\'s to \"bring to life our world even without players connected!\"
And that\'s what I have to say about that.
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Well I think that a place, person or thing to hold guild members items is a great idea. It would do wonders for the role play of planeshift. I also think it would add to the realisim of planeshift if the chests could be picked. :D
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A chest that could be purchased by anyone, or by a guild that could be locked, stashed away and vulnerable to sneaky lockpickers who may stumble across it is a great idea.
To deny lockpickers the opportunity to loot your stash would be ... silly. The chest would not be manditory, and if a guild chose to use one - they could choose to protect it too.
Being able to bury it would be neat if anyone could pick up the shovel.
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Before there can be actual chests, there needs to be a place to put the chests ;) Otherwise this is all moot.
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Originally posted by Araye
I think that is taking it just a tad out of the \"planeshift concept\":
You took everything I said literally, did you? 8) Ok, I will try to do the same:
\"WHAT IS PLANESHIFT? The objective of the PlaneShift is to create a virtual fantasy world in which a player can start as a peasant in search of fame and become a hero. First of all PlaneShift is a Role Playing Game. Be sure to read our Roleplay guidelines or you will not be able to play this game. We will focus our efforts in the reproduction of a real world with politics, economy, many non-player-characters controlled by the server that will bring to life our world even without players connected!\"
Players start as peasants and become heroes. It is a long long search of fame before they can become heroes. In meantime they sit on the Plaza and sell apples ;)
Back to the original topic. In addition to the \"WHY\" Rule (http://planeshift.oodlz.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=17798&boardid=11&styleid=1) I would have another rule: \"How does your wish or idea benefit role-playing?\". The original wish posted by Sisilam answers to both questions:
Why?
I noticed that hundred of rubys will consume a lot space
How does it benefit role-playing?
in fact of the new Lockpicking skill it might be interesting for others to lockpick such Chests to get the Loot. That way also Guild Members have the purpouse to watch their Chest! One more purpouse what Guild members may do/work.
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What\'s not to take literally here:
\"I think Plaza should be packed with characters trading rice, eggs, fish, whatever and not NPCs This is a roleplaying game and anything that can be done by players should be done that way. Game mechanics, NPCs etc. are needed to support roleplay, but not for anything else.\"
I don\'t care to fight about this, so if you don\'t mind, I will not respond to this off topic noise. If you want to continue the debate, pm me, my mailbox is empty.
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Actually it isn\'t necessarily out of realism in the PS world to have locks that can\'t be picked...
You make your payment to Talad to start your guild. He provides you with your storage area and protects teh lock with the hightest magic in the land. Even the greatist mortal mages would be unable to unlock it.
A key is fine, but risky, in that keys can be lost. I don\'t see how getting an entire guilds stronghold stolen is a good thing, and I don\'t think it makes the game much fun. A few statics and certanties in a game don\'t necessarily provide for good rp. If we can pick and loot a chest of a guild then how come we can\'t steal every belonging on a person if he/she dies?
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Originally posted by Induane
You make your payment to Talad to start your guild. He provides you with your storage area and protects teh lock with the hightest magic in the land. Even the greatist mortal mages would be unable to unlock it.
Maybe Laanx could offer some help when unlocking the lock? I guess they both are equally good in magic ;)
A key is fine, but risky, in that keys can be lost. I don\'t see how getting an entire guilds stronghold stolen is a good thing, and I don\'t think it makes the game much fun. A few statics and certanties in a game don\'t necessarily provide for good rp. If we can pick and loot a chest of a guild then how come we can\'t steal every belonging on a person if he/she dies?
I love the idea about chests both for guilds and for individuals. And I also see a potential in lockpicking and stealing items from chests. And I do see a lot of pros and cons. Before it can be implemented, at least the following needs to be solved:
* A way to protect the chest, like by guarding it or something similar.
* A way to find the thief, because every thief leaves at least some leads.
* A way to punish the thief when caught and get your items back.
So a lot of unsolved issues, but hey, this is a discussion board and the community is here to come out with greatest ideas :)
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ahhh ... very fine discussion :-)
yes .. I got thought about the lockpicking problem twice before I post it.
1.) First of all I think everyone of us agree with me that a chest will be very usefull and also that it will be easyer to only give it to guilds in the first step.
2.a) Where to put the quest while guilds still have no home place? Maybe the guild Master might move it like a bag and could drop it where he thinks will be a good place for the quest. So it have to be an object that is unmoveable for other members as the guild leader who owns it. This is not difficult as some of you know the floating mugs which also can\'t be moved.
2.b) In result of that you are in need of such chest box. So you might be able to buy one from a smithy if you are a guild leadeer. Than you can buy one and move it anywhere you like it.
3.a) Locks. I guess as like the lock on the floating mugs, that each chest will have its individual lock. Maybe you might lock it with a keyword instead. So you could tell some of your guild members that keyword like giving them a key. Like a magic Lock of sort of \"Open Sesame!!\" of the story \"1001 Night\".
3.b) Lockpicking will able to let someone steel your stuff. so some guys are fear of being robed. Yes this is problematic but think of that.
- A Masterlock need one with Mastelockpicking abilitys to lockpick
- One who has Masterlockpicking ablilitys might be a member who is in this game for quite a long time
- Someone who is in the game for a long periode of time still have good weapons and stuff. So it might be easier to loot an NPC instead of using couple of hours to spend trieng lockpicking.
4.) You might prevent from being lockpicked by installing a trap to your chest. So you might be combine that lock with a powerfull glyph of fireball. If someone will fail to lockpick he might be killed by a fireball or lightning flash. If you ever tried to dig ore you know how often you are unsuccessfull on digging ore. While ore digging won\'t harm you if you fail, a trap might harm you badly. So that way other players might think twice if they try to lockpick, will be killed and maybe the chest ist still empty or only has 2 small daggers in it.
5.) Guarding a Chest. Yes it might be impossible to guard your Chest all the time, but in that case you have still the possibility to empty that chest and put everything you need your inventory and than logging off! Anyhow it is still some kind of work you might do if you are in a guild and you might use the time to play advisor ;-)
So with the combination of trap and lock this chests might be pretty save. On the other hand it will be still possible to interact and use that for a quest between some guilds, if you are searching for a special item. The complexity to lockpick and remove the trap will limit those thing to some rare special cases.
Anyhow a dead guild which has consumed a lot of items and dropped that in the chest box and then did not log in for several weeks/months don\'t need to wonder if something might be stolen.
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I like number 4! Bam! DR for you!
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about the guilds having there own npc it is a good idea but ud need a special place to have it like a guild registering place could have a big room full of them i dunno or u could just have 1 chest in a bank and when u open it ur guild stuff is i nthere but other guilds can use same chest but wen they open it there guilds stuff (magic chest)
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*Rheos rummages deep down in the wishlist and pulls out a dusty old thread, gives it a careful clean and puts it out in the light again*
All of that talk about "I want a lock that can't be picked" etc is irrelevant to me (and probably somewhat irrelevant now guild houses are in game anyway), I just want a chest in game that I can put in the guild house and put my stuff in so I don't cause lag in the GH, A sack simply doesn't hold enough.
On thinking about it, a thief trying to steal a heavy chest by the pickup and drop method would be a highly amusing sight. ;D
Rheos
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I'm certain it's on its way.
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I've said this before in other less-active threads...
Law enforcement first, crime second. Right now a player can swipe something and log out and face no penalty whatsoever. Log files are not evidence, and the server (if it even records every action) logs aren't accessible.
I can live with the occasional mugging through good RP for a circle in the wilderness, or even a dark alley I chose as a shortcut at my own peril. Seedy neighborhoods that might be known to avoid at night...again...good RP and I can deal.
Lockpicking is just an exploit. It also requires tools, which are not in game. It also requires time...lots of it. Really good locks cannot be "picked" but must be drilled out or the lock cylinder replaced using a special master and tools, or must be destroyed in some fashion, often with damage to the container in the process, and possibly to the contents as well.
Merchants have been begging for large locking chests because their on-hand inventory far exceeds character inventory and sacks due to volume and size constraints. We want to be able to drop several locked chests (big ones) at the place where we sell our goods and be able to put and take items to and from them at will as long as we remain in guarding range of them. A single large chest may have a few hundred thousand tria worth of inventory, and having that just disappear in the blink of an eye with no recourse is just not going to be acceptable. We're using alts now, and those are extremely inconvenient. Running multiple clients without crashing them all is a delicate operation, and can require multiple computers to manage and requires a bunch of separate accounts (not characters) to work. Using them requires being able to trade among them before trading with the PC who wants to buy something, and that's not convenient either.
Yes, please - large portable locking chests, that any player can buy from an NPC as soon as feasible would be wonderful. A lot of alts could be eliminated, and game play would be much enhanced.
If Lockpicking is to exist, I would expect the following:
- guarded containers should be impervious
- each attempt should take many -minutes- without moving
- the picker should have tools equipped for the task
- such tools, being rather delicate, should have a high probability of breaking in the attempt
- the picker must be in touch range of the lock
- the success probability must be very low
- anyone within sight of the picker should have an excellent chance of noticing the activity with a prompt message in middle of the screen "You observe that _____ is trying to pick a lock..raise the alarm? Yes / No", and if Yes is clicked a Shout is generated for all in the vicinity to hear
- the discovered picker would be in auto-accept of multiple-concurrent-attack PVP by everyone nearby if the alarm is raised, or by the discoverer if the alarm is not raised
- if the container is successfully opened anything taken would be returned to the container immediately upon discovery to prevent escape by quick logout
- any guards in the area would be alerted
- guard presence would secure the container as guarded until the owner returns to guarding range to lock it again
Yes yes, this is all may seem extreme. Consider that without the above, a lock picker could effectively clean out every merchant and every guild house in a matter of hours, and there would be absolutely nothing anyone could do about it...they'd get away with it completely.
How does such a scenario enhance the experience for the whole community?
MrG
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That does not seem practical. Need tools? Depends on the lock. Combination locks can be manipulated (http://www.cbc.ca/cp/Oddities/080523/K05239AU.html), it takes time yes but it can be done. In a game with magic the proper glyph might be all that is needed.
Why do you need to trade between you alts to serve a customer? Can't your alt be trusted to handle the transaction?
Many minutes in game time adds up to many seconds of real time.
A good smith could knock out a tool in a flash from materials at hand.
If I see someone fussing over a lock box do I know that he is picking it or if his key is damaged? Therefore your yes/no alarm should always be in effect.
If you can carry that heavy a chest so can I and I'll pick your lock where there are no eyes to see.
Mostly pvp is annoying but thievery is not always pvp. It is these kinds of considerations that hold back the development of such abilities. Lock picking has been functional for at least the past two versions but there has been nothing to practice it on for players. I have heard a rumor there is a lock that can be picked currently but I have never seen it or heard where it might be.
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All the locks in game are key locks, so combination and other non-key locks would be outside the scope of my post. Magic was also way outside the scope.
Trading with an alt that is no more than a placeholder for a crate or chest is bad RP, the customer has dealt with the merchant character and would not understand to accept a trade with some other entity...just not good IMHO.
I was referring to real minutes, not imaginary...maybe that wasn't obvious enough.
The server knows the difference between a lockpick attempt and a keyholder accessing it - on that basis would roll to decide if anyone around notices every few seconds (real).
You cannot pick up a guarded chest, and if it isn't guarded there's a good chance the server or my client crashed and if you exploit that and get caught I'd vote for your banning.
Your faction with merchants has fallen 1000 this week. :thumbdown:
MrG
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It seems to me that many up-scale merchants have the the immaculately attired manager who deals with the customers, sells them on the highest profit merchandise they can get away with and then directs the flunky to handle the filthy lucre, wrap the parcel and take it out to the customers conveyance or delivers it later. How would that be different than letting the alt do the actual transaction with a "very good sir, Henry here will complete the transaction for you. I must see to Lady Snootberger." Of course the customer can then have his man/alt deal with Henry too if necessary.
Of course you were talking about real minutes, your whole idea is to make thieving practically impossible. It would be better not to implement it at all than to implement it in a completely useless manner.
The server has nothing to do with role play. A chest knows nothing. At the very most someone might get a message telling them they noticed something but then it would have to be based on their relative perception and if they are facing the wrong way they should have no chance. Then if they do notice something exact enough to react to their reaction should be completely at their discretion -- no unsubtle hints from the server.
Of course realistically I could get three of my buddies to separate you from your chest by force if necessary but, oh! hey! that isn't possible is it? Just like with the way merchants put all their stuff out -- a dozen or two "Olivers" could clean you out and you might catch one or two of them but that is prevented by the server too, isn't it?
I got no more use for exploiters than you claim to have but I think you want to exploit your customers with no chance of retribution. Maybe you are all on the up and up and your prices are reasonable, as for me I do not sell much to other players, I give stuff away occasionally and sell ore very rarely. I am just as likely to sell it to an npc as another player.
If you are running a large scale business how much tax do you pay? I do not think 50% is too much for the octarch to take from the people who might try to replace him. All depends on how strong his guard is, I guess.
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It has to be hard or every noob (not to be confused with newbie) fresh off other games would want to do it. One hint that you can easily steal from other players and get a slap on the wrist if you fail, and you would have a flood of idiots in the game. I would not accept thievery as a feature unless it was very hard to pull off with pretty hefty character punishments that roleplayers would readily accept but casual gamers or idiots would not. Why?
1: I like a challenge.
2: Casual gamers should not be playing roles they can not handle.
3: Idiots... that is self-explanatory.
Only Roleplayers should fill positions of power in the game. One player being able to steal from or kill (without permission) another player's character is a position of power, therefore restricted.
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I have absolutely no problem with player owned chests, particularly ones in fixed locations being impenetrable. There ought to be at least one completely safe place for each character to store the stuff that is the most important to them. There should also be varying qualities of pickable locks, you want a lock for a merchant that only the most advanced lock-pick can open? Pay though the nose. I can even see eventually having stores that can be purchased like the guild houses which come with a default difficulty lock-box and perhaps a small unpickable one. You want more room? Pay though the nose and you can purchase what you want. You want a stronger lock? that's an arm or maybe a leg. Security is not a right. It is a luxury.
There should also be a variety of NPC lock-boxes with various traps and/or alarms.
You want a challenge? what about the challenge of hanging on to your massive collection of rare and valuable items?
Define Roleplayer please. If I play a thief and I go around stealing from all the NPCs and buying nothing but what is available from NPCs of a similar bent am I not playing my thief role? Or do I have to steal from the player who is going to go whine to the gms because he lost 50 crummy tria because he was too cheap to pay for a secure lock? Certainly a master thief would not bother with such a prize unless he was in dire straights and even might leave more trias than he found if he happened to find a crummy chest randomly.
You can't have things all one way or it is pointless.
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I didn't feel like reading through all the post but my thought is have chests with different difficulty of being able to be picked based on price.
for example one could have a 4 tria wooden box that can be smashed open, or one could buy a 100000 tria steel vault with diamond rollers thats next to impossible to pick.
just a thought