PlaneShift
Fan Area => The Hydlaa Plaza => Topic started by: WiseKran on January 03, 2006, 02:39:26 am
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I read the post, but Im still in the dark.
Why did she leave? Did we do something?
This is really depressing me.. I always thought she was the most solid member of the community.
I know this may be a subject no one wants to talk about, or forbidden.
But I really need an explaination
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players come and go all the time. is something you have to get used to. i havnt. x)
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She just hasn\'t been able to feel that this place is \"home\" anymore :) It\'s understandable, people change, their preferences and opinions change, communities change. She hasn\'t been an active member of the community for quite a while now, but most haven\'t noticed it. She gives explanations in her signature and in the goodbye thread (http://planeshift.oodlz.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=21311&boardid=19&styleid=4) others made for her, and I\'m not sure if there\'s anything truly confusing about it :>
You could have posted this in the other thread, though. There\'s no reason to have two.
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Originally posted by Karyuu
You could have posted this in the other thread, though. There\'s no reason to have two.
Huh? It was locked. Like all other goodbye/leaving threads because some people don\'t seem to be able to handle them properly.
And I think it is quite obvious that if he had actually read that thread then this one would not be here as her reasons are very clearly stated there.
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Originally posted by Kiern
And I think it is quite obvious that if he had actually read that thread then this one would not be here as her reasons are very clearly stated there.
Well, there\'s always more to these things than what appears on the surface.
I think that \"Why?\" is a dangerous, and even insensitive question to ask here. Moogie has had the chance to say what she wants to, so I think that anything that she would want to make public has already been said. At this point, people should just be sensitive to her leaving and wish her the best.
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Originally posted by Kiern
Huh? It was locked. Like all other goodbye/leaving threads because some people don\'t seem to be able to handle them properly.
Blast. I didn\'t lock it, so I had no idea. My mistake.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
Well, there\'s always more to these things than what appears on the surface.
Always? No, not always. In fact it is quite rare for there to be a singular reason or even just a few for people to leave here or anywhere else. And that is obviously what he is looking for. It is just those people usually throw a fit while the rest just exit quietly. I see no whining from Mogura. I would of had no idea she left/intended to leave had the thread not been made on her behalf.
People generally leave for no reason other then Planeshift hold no more interest for them. Nothing specific causes this.
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Originally posted by Kiern
Originally posted by zanzibar
Well, there\'s always more to these things than what appears on the surface.
Always? No, not always. In fact it is quite rare for there to be a singular reason or even just a few for people to leave here or anywhere else. And that is obviously what he is looking for. It is just those people usually throw a fit while the rest just exit quietly. I see no whining from Mogura. I would of had no idea she left/intended to leave had the thread not been made on her behalf.
People generally leave for no reason other then Planeshift hold no more interest for them. Nothing specific causes this.
For ****\'s sake I said in a situation like this.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
For ****\'s sake I said in a situation like this.
What the hell? You said nothing even close to \"in a situation like this\". You said \"these things\" which implies the exact opposite.
And no, I don\'t see how this situation is any different. So it wouldn\'t matter.
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I know I\'m not the one you\'d listen to advice from, Kiern, but you know where such argument will lead... Absolutely nowhere :<
It\'s the older member\'s fault Moogie leaves. Because they were leaving in the first place... Pfft @ Giladrial.
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Makes me sad. I was on vacation for the last week so did not follow anything that was going on. So a bit sad to come back to read this, espeically without a chance to talk to her first. She\'s a fine team mate and a good member of the community and I hope I can say friend.
We can find new people but we can never truly replace the old...
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Originally posted by Kiern
Originally posted by zanzibar
For ****\'s sake I said in a situation like this.
What the hell? You said nothing even close to \"in a situation like this\". You said \"these things\" which implies the exact opposite.
And no, I don\'t see how this situation is any different. So it wouldn\'t matter.
Like this, these things, whatever. It\'s for Moogie\'s sake and not mine.
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No one ever really leaves.
This has happened dozens times before, so no, I won\'t \"say\" that whole philosophy again, just dig up for ancient posts to find my ancient answer in these matters. It\'s long, but I guess it\'s what I\'ll say now as well. Mostly.
Cheers.
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Originally posted by Annah
No one ever really leaves.
This has happened dozens times before, so no, I won\'t \"say\" that whole philosophy again, just dig up for ancient posts to find my ancient answer in these matters. It\'s long, but I guess it\'s what I\'ll say now as well. Mostly.
Cheers.
mostly true.... there are the people who fade into the backround and disapear....
but people who make any noise at all about leaving....be it as simple as a sig or as large as telling everyone they suck in a thread and so forth...they will come back :P
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I went away once, then I got pulled back? damn bungee rope.
Do I think Moogie will be back? Perhaps but not for along time, it is possible that we could even be nearing the end of the wipes before she surfaces again.
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Everybody will come back, once the game is finished then they\'l go \"Hey look there\'s that game I used to love but then I gave up on it!\" but by then we will all be old and in nappies but they will still return!
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or they just forgot all about the comunity and found some other game with superior graphics and gameplay :P
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How can your forget about these people look at them they are personalitys and you can acually learn alot here.
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personalitys? i cant say i ever hero worshipped anyone here :P
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Originally posted by yayoo
How can your forget about these people
I honestly hope I will..
I understand from your point of view all the people around here rock so shouldn\'t be forgotten about, but the previous \"generation\" mostly thinks otherwise.
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Originally posted by Draklar
I understand from your point of view all the people around here rock so shouldn\'t be forgotten about, but the previous \"generation\" mostly thinks otherwise.
we only want to be loved :/
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Sure I\'l forget most people after a year but some people around planeshift cant be forgotten, people on the forums are the one\'s easly forgetable simply because most are not my kind of \"friendly person\" I like to know but aleast 3 people IG are in my head forever.
Drey your weird you remind me of monkeys for some reason
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Originally posted by yayoo
Sure I\'l forget most people after a year but some people around planeshift cant be forgotten, people on the forums are the one\'s easly forgetable simply because most are not my kind of \"friendly person\" I like to know but aleast 3 people IG are in my head forever.
I know. There were people around here two years ago that I think stayed in minds of many people for a very long time even after they left, such as Giladrial, and those who still are here and even if they left, many wouldn\'t forget them, such as Nilaya.
But it seems after someone stays in PS for quite a long time, he/she doesn\'t value the people in new \"generation\" as much...
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Everybody can add to the planeshift world in one way or another it\'s a same peple are being judged on when they joined instead of what the offer to our world
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Err, no that\'s not what I mean.
You know how in human history, new generations were changing the culture, no more following views showed by the previous generations?
We have something similar in Planeshift. As periods change, so do people. The new ones have different views on things than previous and also different type of behaviour (could be connected with progress of Planeshift\'s development). Because of that there\'s just no way for them to unite into a close-knit community.
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Originally posted by Draklar
Err, no that\'s not what I mean.
You know how in human history, new generations were changing the culture, no more following views showed by the previous generations?
We have something similar in Planeshift. As periods change, so do people. The new ones have different views on things than previous and also different type of behaviour (could be connected with progress of Planeshift\'s development). Because of that there\'s just no way for them to unite into a close-knit community.
You share Moogie\'s perspective. That is, there\'s a definate and widespread changing of the guard, and the old and the new have unreconcilable differences.
I think that\'s a cop out, of course. People are always trickling in it seems, and there\'s a diversity of opinions and personalities among both people who are new and people who have been here for different periods. I fall somewhere in the middle, so maybe my view is off.
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Well, you also have to put in to factor that the average \"age\" of Planeshift stays the same (14-16 would get the most out of it, I would guess) while the longer you stay the further away from that you get. I\'m not saying it\'s not fun when you\'re older, you just connect less with the people.
So really, you can theorize all you want as to the different mindsets of the \"new\" and \"old\" people (speaking in terms of how long they\'ve been a part of PS), but generally the older the new person is the more accepted they are.
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Yeah, that also seems like an important factor.
Although it was quite easy for me to communicate with the people on Planeshift\'s irc fan chan lately... I believe the average age of active people over there could be 15...
On the other hand Moogie didn\'t enjoy company of some of them :P
I think the average age for fames of MB was 17 and notably many other fames were above that.
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Originally posted by Kiern
Well, you also have to put in to factor that the average \"age\" of Planeshift stays the same (14-16 would get the most out of it, I would guess) while the longer you stay the further away from that you get. I\'m not saying it\'s not fun when you\'re older, you just connect less with the people.
So really, you can theorize all you want as to the different mindsets of the \"new\" and \"old\" people (speaking in terms of how long they\'ve been a part of PS), but generally the older the new person is the more accepted they are.
That\'s odd, because most of the people I talk to in game end up being around 18-25.
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Well, do you talk to everyone or certain types of people?
I wouldn\'t know about in-game other then based on the people I see here who frequent the game, and I notice that those people generally don\'t fit in well with the people who don\'t and usually the age (both in PS and real world) usually correspond with this.
I\'m mostly talking about forums/irc, because that\'s where my experience lies. Though it was different back when Washi was in control of the IRC channel, but ever since it was taken away from him the average age/maturity level there dropped considerably. And I realize most people don\'t know what I\'m talking about.
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One of the last things Moogie tried to do around Planeshift, was to increase the maturity on the irc channel. I suppose her ways didn\'t meet acceptance from other people with power in there... In the end the attempt went nowhere.
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IRC seems to be a lost cause, as far as I see it, unless a select few people (mostly WTB members) are around. The place is full of nonsense to an unbearable degree - I admire Moogie a ton for trying to change it.
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Well, I can imagine why her effort failed if they are like any of her earlier ones to \"change\" things. She generally has the right intentions but goes about them a bit heavy-handed, which can make people who might agree with her change their minds.
If it was anything like when seperot, mogura, and whoever else created that other channel during the quakenet stuff and basically just insulted each other...
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Meh, I remember the day jose gave me ops to look after the chan while he was sleeping. I wasted whole day asking people to stop spamming and swearing, eventually muting the chan when flamewar caused some newcomer to not hear an answer to his question.
After that there were few kicks for swearing still, with good result, people figured out I keep watching it :P
But it was hell and like I said, watching over that place made me waste whole day. Those people couldn\'t be left alone..
And after that I still didn\'t hear any \"thank you\" or anything when jose came back :P
Just then I figured out why Moogie was frustrated to the point of refusing to come back to that channel.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
You share Moogie\'s perspective. That is, there\'s a definate and widespread changing of the guard, and the old and the new have unreconcilable differences.
I think that\'s a cop out, of course. People are always trickling in it seems, and there\'s a diversity of opinions and personalities among both people who are new and people who have been here for different periods. I fall somewhere in the middle, so maybe my view is off.
I definately agree that there is a massive gulf between old players and new. There are very very few of us who where around for a very short time in MB before CB. However, the thing that makes a gulf uncrossable isn\'t bad weather or politics, it\'s just old fashioned stubborness. I don\'t know about other countries but for an American it\'s hard to take a sudden paradigm shift. When I first came to MB as Jakob Gantos, I did so because I was sick of the game Moogie dubbed \"Spoonscape.\" I\'m sure you all know how big a paradigm shift that was...
Anyway after wandering around and meeting a few interesting people over the course of a week or two Planeshift MB went down and CB came back in its place. I rejoined the world, once again as Jakob Gantos. Due to the fact that I still wasn\'t quite ready to entirely let my warlike ways die off I let myself stay in the background, being afraid of what my presence might do, because, of course I considered myself a deserter from another camp. You can see that I\'ve changed that view...
The character of Jakob Gantos is one that I haven\'t been able to develop to my liking in the past three years... He\'s not seen anymore, but Arew Silverwing is. My name is known by a few, but Arew is still somewhat in the shadows. Fortunately he\'s supposed to be...
Anyway... the point I\'m trying to make here is that having my background, which I\'m quite certain isn\'t unique, I can see that there is a distinct difference between MB and CB new players. Jakob constantly felt as though he didn\'t quite belong anywhere near the likes of Moogie or others whose names he\'d heard spoken with such reverence. It was a fairly alienating experience for both myself and my character. Now, my religious and martial arts background keeps me open to new... everythings... but not everyone can easily open up in the course of a month, or a year, or even more, and this is where the gulf becomes uncrossable. Some players, old and new, have radical ideas about how the game should be played (/me points to PL/RP flamewars) and this tension, which for the longest time underwrote a lot of what people do still leaves some people feeling alone today. It seems sometimes that for every member trying to pull someone who has a set paradigm as a PLer into RPing there is someone else shouting \"n00b don\'t PL... PLing is the suxorz 111!!!!\"... Okay, that wording\'s not so likely but you get the point. I\'ve seen marked improvements in this aspect. Especially in the Role Play Masters, or whatever their official title is.
I don\'t think that this gulf is a bunch of hooey, or bunk, or a cop out. I believe it simply stems from people having radically different worldviews and coming into nearly armed conflict over it.
I\'m done rambling now. Feel free to ignore me if you like. It\'s what I\'m here for... Oh, and I apologize to those of you who don\'t care about Jakob or Arew for giving you their OoC story...
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Originally posted by Kiern
Well, do you talk to everyone or certain types of people?
I talk to everyone, but I only talk to people I find pleasant or interesting.
Originally posted by Jakob
I definately agree that there is a massive gulf between old players and new. There are very very few of us who where around for a very short time in MB before CB. However, the thing that makes a gulf uncrossable isn\'t bad weather or politics, it\'s just old fashioned stubborness.
But I\'m not convined that there is such a gulf. I think it\'s a matter of very vocal, very active people on both sides of the coin, but in truth there\'s a greater variety... there\'s more grey. It\'s not stubborness which is the problem, it\'s an intolerance of diversity. It\'s people who don\'t like being challenged.
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Originally posted by Karyuu
IRC seems to be a lost cause, as far as I see it, unless a select few people (mostly WTB members) are around.
I agree, and am sad to say I probably played a part in is :/
but there are people who try to help Hokinon is the one who springs to mind (other than devs), and I try myself if its something i know about.
Thinking about it... pretty much all my old PS friends have gone now, including moogie even though we werent really friends by the time she left. Kariloy and Rux still drop in from time to time, and stfrn is still here (\\o/)
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I\'d like to add a correction:
IRC is not a lost cause, just #planeshift. #planeshift-build and #planeshift-events are fine for serious conversation (build and RP oriented, respectively). #planeshift is just a mess. *advocates insta 3-day bans for repetitive spammers*
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Originally posted by Cha0s
I\'d like to add a correction:
IRC is not a lost cause, just #planeshift. #planeshift-build and #planeshift-events are fine for serious conversation (build and RP oriented, respectively). #planeshift is just a mess. *advocates insta 3-day bans for repetitive spammers*
And what exactly qualifies as spamming?
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At the discretion of the moderators. ;)
But in general, I\'d say talking off-topic for extended periods of time (10+ minutes). It\'d be up to the mods, though.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
Originally posted by Cha0s
I\'d like to add a correction:
IRC is not a lost cause, just #planeshift. #planeshift-build and #planeshift-events are fine for serious conversation (build and RP oriented, respectively). #planeshift is just a mess. *advocates insta 3-day bans for repetitive spammers*
And what exactly qualifies as spamming?
FaKeShAdOw.....
\"FaKeShAdOw spoke a total of 24602 words!
FaKeShAdOw\'s faithful follower, josePhoenix, didn\'t speak so much: 10252 words.\"
more than double the next nearest. Also she has more than 3 times the lines of the next nearest.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
And what exactly qualifies as spamming?
Everything that makes people to use the /leave command qualifies as spam. And if you spend some time at #planeshift, you know what I mean.
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Originally posted by Bereror
Originally posted by zanzibar
And what exactly qualifies as spamming?
Everything that makes people to use the /leave command qualifies as spam. And if you spend some time at #planeshift, you know what I mean.
That\'s bogus! Someone can leave for ANY reason, including not liking who\'s talking regardless of the topic and quality of content!
Since when do chat rooms have topics, anyway?
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oddly you should mention #planeshift
the last few days...since demrthal went there and decided to flame people calling them all maggots then flamed me....after it all calmed down it seems to be a fair bit quieter....then again i only know about the 16-18 hours im awake so they could spam madly the rest of the time :P
also Kiern if your on about #Planeshift-fans Mog had no part in that... it was me and jose that made it...then i got kicked out when it was made official because talad distrusts me and/or dislikes me.
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I really have no way to label what\'s spam and what\'s not on IRC, but when a place is intolerable because people are almost constantly spouting absurdities, things need to change somehow. Mostly it\'s a select few people, but they\'re not breaking any rules - they\'re just talking mumbo jumbo about nothing at all. There\'s an empty void in there. A vooooiiid. And any attempts to discuss something serious (remember the poetry episode? You didn\'t see what happened afterward) are met with scoffs and sneers.
This had no point besides to say: I hate it :|
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Originally posted by seperot
oddly you should mention #planeshift
the last few days...since demrthal went there and decided to flame people calling them all maggots then flamed me....after it all calmed down it seems to be a fair bit quieter....then again i only know about the 16-18 hours im awake so they could spam madly the rest of the time :P
also Kiern if your on about #Planeshift-fans Mog had no part in that... it was me and jose that made it...then i got kicked out when it was made official because talad distrusts me and/or dislikes me.
Demarthyl does that all the time though. His flaming is just a part of the culture. (??)
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It\'s because she didn\'t like me :P We never really got along, and *gasp* I never really liked her anyways :P although I won\'t go so far as to say good riddance, she was a very helpful member of the community, if a bit willful at times.
*pours water on himself in preparation for flame war*
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Originally posted by JellyWerker
It\'s because she didn\'t like me :P We never really got along, and *gasp* I never really liked her anyways :P although I won\'t go so far as to say good riddance, she was a very helpful member of the community, if a bit willful at times.
*pours water on himself in preparation for flame war*
You and I weren\'t the only ones, but hey nobody gets along with everybody, right?
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Very true :D
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one thing she could have done would be to change that avatar >.>