PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Sangwa on January 16, 2006, 02:26:26 pm
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I think it\'s very important to have a system that controls guild size.
Why!?
Because this would demotivate mass recruiting guilds that ruin the game for guilds that are not mass recruiters. Check this thread\'s twin sibling (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=21604&boardid=18&styleid=3&sid=28593446b080d5db5da7335d9d123e1a&page=1#1).
Plus, in a realistic enviroment, guilds with many members would certainly have a bigger outcome (like companies with many workers).
Here, I\'ll even tell you how. I think there should be a (huge) fee once a guild reaches a certain amount of members.
Check out how I think it should be:
20 Members - 40000 trias;
40 Members - 60000 trias;
60 Members - 80000 trias;
80 Members - 100000 trias;
100 Members - 150000 trias;
Each member above 100 - 20000 trias.
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I see your purpose Sangwa, but putting fees isn\'t the solution.
You just said, in the other thread, that those guilds are mainly formed by powerlevelers. Even if the fee is high, if they\'re in fact, powerlevelers, money won\'t ever be a problem for them.
What\'s the solution? the solution is fun.
Happily with the current stage of developing, killing an npc is, to say the least, not very challenging (perhaps there\'s a bit of challange to reach the appropiate stats to kill a gladiator, for instance, but, once achieved, there\'s nothing) and even with a complete version, clicking an attack button to defeat a monster computerly controlled will be also not challenging.
The solution resides then, in being able to show that roleplaying is not that it is the way to go, but also the most fun of them all, the one that allows to be less corseted; it can\'t be that hard, after all. ;)
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That is the utopic solution Nilrem.
The problem is: players are lured with trias and weapons. We don\'t have the oppurtunity to show them roleplaying is fun because they\'re quickly snatched from our hands.
What you mentioned is actually a reason for us to put more effort in ending Mass Recruiting. Players get bored after a while because they don\'t know what PS\'s true fun is.
Maybe its possible to have percentage fees. Everyone in the guild would lose 25% percent of their trias each time the guild earned another 20 members. 50% when they reach 100 and then 12.5% each time a player joined above the 100 count.
That plus the fees I\'ve mentioned. This way maybe they wouldn\'t be able to get 80000 trias to reach 60 players.
This would also be good because it would require the members to be loyal to the guild. Powerlevelers would become annoyed at the fact that their guild leader kept making them lose money, which would lead them to quit and maybe be attracted to the roleplaying community.
Yes, I think that\'s acceptable. I want the Empire to have a large amount of (role)players so these will fall upon me as well.
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Maybe people can train Guild Management skills to obtain more members. For each rank you obtain the right to 1 more member. And eventually a maximum of 200 I\'d say. Now remember that it takes longer and longer to earn each rank so it makes sense that people would choose there members a lot more wisely. Meaning that the guild would have to work together to earn more members.
I like the idea though Sangwa and i reckon it should be implemented. *Gona poke*
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That does sound better and less outraging to players.
But I think it should work differently. The guild management skill of a guild should be equal to the skill level of the recruiter members devided by they\'re number. (I can\'t recall the name of this formula.)
And, above level 100 you\'d need 2 levels to recruit one member :D.
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I believe more in the teaching/didactive way rather than the one of harassments. Call me idealistic :P
Still, the point is that both harassing with wipes or implementing fees on forming guilds haven\'t stopped, neither the powerleveling or the mass recruiting.
To drive new players to the real and fun side of PS (rp or learning how to, or even watching how others do) is a matter that has to involve all the community. I saw a nice role of the RM team in that commitment, and I expressed that in another thread, but again, they don\'t have to be alone.
The community has to ask to herself if it really wants more roleplayers, or people willing to learn how to. If the answer is affirmative, and I\'m sure it has to be; then the commitment of each of us, is try to reach that objective; that implies trying not to only tell about the sewers and rat infestation when someone new comes, but a more dedicated effort to show what is the \"right\" way (that, I admit, isn\'t always easy, and it can be exhausting, but that\'s where the community takes part)
And if some \"powerleveler\" or one of the many newcomers that have been lead to a massive mindless npc killing is reading this: Go and hunt for roleplayers, there\'s more reward awaiting than hunting for trepors.
EDIT: I seem to understand (I guess I\'m wrong) that is a necessary requirement that those players leave their guilds in order to be \"spotted\" by the roleplaying community. I fail to see why, are those \"powerlevel\" guilds really so powerful as to blind all of their members?
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Idealistic.
Most times I stumble upon new players I do my best to get them interested in roleplaying. But not everyone will do that, specially not the people who don\'t assume roleplaying as the most important trait of PS.
Those people need limits to be imposed on them. Plus, it would be a nice new feature. It\'s realistic to have guilds with better or worst managing skills.
I still think there should be something that would handicap powerlevelers though... Like a percentage fee when you reach 50 and 100 members ^^. It\'s also realistic to have a bigger outcome when you have a big guild :P
Nilrem: You\'re right... Players don\'t need to quit their guild to become roleplayers. Unless their guild has no roleplaying activity at all.
I am concencerned with the fact that other guilds (like my own) get no members, because they\'re stolen without a single thought about character background or role path...
It would also be a good incentivation to prevent powerleveling guilds from existing and luring other members to them.
[joke]Hmm... maybe we should send some roleplay priests to the arenas to convert them all. xD[/joke]
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also, you could make it so a person could not join a guild for like 5 days from character creation. This means that the person will have a little bit of time to figure out who is who and how to play. They will get a better idea of who to join.
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shorty13 that would mean that people who are oldbies and want to create an alt character from scratch would have to wait for 5 days even though he knows how to play...
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I think shorty\'s idea is really good! And oldbies can wait 5 days ^^.
Or better. If it\'s possible, once an account has its first character created, none of its characters can join a guild for a week :D
That way players with over a week of experience can create alts who can join guilds.
Hey, I think we\'re building up a nice idea here.
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Stupid idea.
First, it\'s not a problem. If a guild is huge, then good for them.
If you have difficuly attracting members, then maybe there\'s something wrong with your guild.
Personally, I think that there should be NO fee to start a guild. Money comes from having a powerful character (powerlevelling), but guilds are supposed to help RP. It makes no sense.
Edit: Further, it\'s unrealistic.
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Originally posted by Sangwa
This would also be good because it would require the members to be loyal to the guild. Powerlevelers would become annoyed at the fact that their guild leader kept making them lose money, which would lead them to quit and maybe be attracted to the roleplaying community.
I have always thought it was to easy to make a guild. A newbie comes into planeshift, hacks n slashes a bit, maybe learns a little role play and then shrugs and thinks \"oh well, might as well start a guild because I have the money and I am bored. This may not be the case for everyone but I have seen it alot.
I agree Sangwa with your idea, it would make people think twice about starting up a guild, and make it known who the real guilds in Yliakum are. If we are going for realisim in Ps to then this helps it a bit more, you cannot just open a business in real life for free, so why should starting a guild be easy? Plus I like the idea that people might just stay loyal to their guilds. :D
[Edit] I also like shorty13 idea and Sangwa\'s add on to the idea!
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Originally posted by zanzibar
Edit: Further, it\'s unrealistic.
Care to explain?
In reality, if you wanted to create a corporation, you would have to pay for creation, for officialty, for everything...
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Originally posted by Cyl
Originally posted by zanzibar
Edit: Further, it\'s unrealistic.
Care to explain?
In reality, if you wanted to create a corporation, you would have to pay for creation, for officialty, for everything...
This isn\'t a corporation. It\'s a guild. I think that it should be free to make them, since at its least it\'s the equivalent of wearing a pin.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
Money comes from having a powerful character (powerlevelling), but guilds are supposed to help RP. It makes no sense.
Exactly. Introducing skills to be mastered to form a guild will just promote powerleveling in a different way. Instead of constantly hacking and slashing the powerlevelers will be training their guild skill so they can make that huge guild. It wouldn\'t fix anything. The people who spend their time RPing instead of leveling will still have a hard time recruiting and the powerlevelers will still have large numbers.
Personally, I think the problem is inherent in the game somewhat.
When you\'re a newbie and create a character you end up in this big confusing city. You hear it all day from newbies: \'Where do I go?\' \'What do I do?\'. They\'re told to go to the sewers to hack and slash things to get money.
BUT WAIT. You guys are saying the game is about RPing. Why is it that the first thing the newbies have to do is fight rats to get money just to have simple weapons or even buy a pickaxe to mine with?
The problem is, there are quests to do but newbies don\'t get into doing quests until they\'ve already gotten into the hacking and slashing bit. Some players make the transition to RPing and others stay with the hacking and slashing.
Trying to lure someone away from hackign and slashing, which their comfortable with, to RPing, which they\'re not so used to, makes things more difficult than they have to be. If the game is about RPing then RPing should be stressed heavily for newbies. They should have to RP in order to get started, not hack and slash.
I propose that instead of worrying about guild sizes we cut the problem down at the roots.
Upon starting the game, newbies should be presented overwhelmingly with the need to do RPing. Whether this is through a quest or whatever. I believe that this would be a step forward to grooming players for RPing so that they can control guilds themselves without the need for any enforcement from game mechanics.
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Originally posted by Sangwa
I think shorty\'s idea is really good! And oldbies can wait 5 days ^^.
Or better. If it\'s possible, once an account has its first character created, none of its characters can join a guild for a week :D
That way players with over a week of experience can create alts who can join guilds.
Hey, I think we\'re building up a nice idea here.
/me gives Sangwa a High-Five!
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Look it\'s about personal responsibilty. If you can /guildinvite then you have to take the responsibilty to train these people how to roleplay and make sure they\'re going to stay active in the guild.
The way I recruit is: I will generally help someone new and add them to my buddy list. Periodically I will check in on them and make sure they are still active and enjoying PS. This gives me confidence that my effort to train this new person will not be wasted. Then I roleplay directly with them. I help give them advice on roleplaying. After I\'m confident in them, then I invite. After that you continue to encourage and lead by example.
You, the invitation giver, must accept that responsibilty.
Power levelers will get tired of it and quit PS after a few weeks/months.
Araye
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Well, this is slightly off-topic but kind of on-topic as well: Would a small, roleplaying guild like to recruit Crimsonn Draycko?
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Crimsonn will have to do the searching - looking through the stickied Guild List may be a good first step in narrowing down the preferred purpose of the guild.
Concerning mass recruiting, I still like my old (http://planeshift.oodlz.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=18832&boardid=11) idea of reversing the process - meaning that players will have to send requests to join, and guilds accept. It will at least encourage guilds to hold conversations and try to catch the eyes of new players, instead of immediately inviting anyone willing to click \"Accept.\"
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Originally posted by Karyuu
Concerning mass recruiting, I still like my old (http://planeshift.oodlz.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=18832&boardid=11) idea of reversing the process - meaning that players will have to send requests to join, and guilds accept. It will at least encourage guilds to hold conversations and try to catch the eyes of new players, instead of immediately inviting anyone willing to click \"Accept.\"
This is a great system....if the guild leaders are responsible and discriminating in who they accept. We currently have guild leaders that seem to want big guilds. What would stop a guild leader who doesn\'t care whether the members RP or PL from amassing a hundred PLers?
Of course, if we have less PLers and more RPers then none of this would be an issue in the first place...like I mentioned in my last post.
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Originally posted by goland
What would stop a guild leader who doesn\'t care whether the members RP or PL from amassing a hundred PLers?
People interested in RP aren\'t likely to join a guild whose members are nonchalant about newcomers, or don\'t have anything interesting to attract them with besides numbers ;) And since newcomers will be the ones who will need to send applications, they\'ll have the chance to look around more and find something better.
If a guild composed of \"powerlevelers\" entirely forms, it will most certainly fall after a time - the community has very little tolerance for people who refuse to roleplay, and it\'s impossible for a large group to avoid contact with others for too long (thus running into roleplayers, not roleplaying, possibly messing up their RP and receiving warnings, etc.).
Anyway, I think this sort of reversal might encourage roleplay a bit more :>
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I like the idea, but we\'re assuming newcomers are going to be looking for a guild that roleplays. This goes back to my first post. Newcomers are introduced to hack and slashing before any roleplay usually. I know I was. Luckily I stumbled upon an rp event when trying to find a higher slash sword. I didn\'t know rp events even existed until a bit into the game. I\'m positive I\'m not the only person who this happened to.
Newcomers may welcome a guild who will accept anyone. They\'ll have access to higher slash weapons and trias. The guilds that will have the most money and higher slash weapons would be the PLers. RPers might even be inclined to join such a guild as they wouldn\'t have to spend their time leveling in order to get weapons and trias.
Having to send an application doesn\'t nessecarily make newcomers \"shop around\" for guilds. The first guild that comes to them and asks them to send them an application could recruit them. What stops this?
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You definitely raise good points, and this \"solution\" can\'t be the only one :) Many are necessary, including more RP events, more and better working NPC quests, more people willing to welcome newcomers through RP, etc. But it\'s one of the steps towards a better atmosphere.
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An NPC in view of the spawn point that gives you a quest the first time you play would be, IMO, good. Of course, the vocabulary and AI of the NPCs would have to be better for this to work well. If NPCs could initiate conversations then that would help. I have a few ideas about this but I don\'t want to get the thread off-topic.
As far as the game mechanics of guilds go, I like Karyuu\'s idea a lot. I don\'t think much needs to be changed in the game as far as guilds are concerned. I believe the problem is newcomers not getting thrown into RP right off when they start the game.
If we recognize that newcomers draw their first impressions of the game within the first 5 or 10 minutes of playing and introduce RP actively within those first minutes of the game, I think RPing would increase greatly.
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I think that mine and Sangwa\'s idea + Karyuu\'s = somthing really good.
We should try it.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
Edit: Further, it\'s unrealistic.
BAH! What are you talking about it is the most realistic way...and remember were hear to ESCAPE from reality and all off its life stresses!
Originally posted by shorty13
I think that mine and Sangwa\'s idea + Karyuu\'s = somthing really good.
What you dont like my idea :(
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Originally posted by shorty13
I think that mine and Sangwa\'s idea + Karyuu\'s = somthing really good.
We should try it.
I don\'t like the idea of raising fees to start guilds. Like zanzibar said, it\'s counterproductive.
Say I want to start a guild that will focus on roleplaying and helping the community...non-income producing things for the most part. Say the guild is successful and grew.
With Sangwa\'s plan, I would be slapped with fees and in order to pay the fees I would either need to get trias myself or get everyone in the guild to contribute. Either way it would cause me or my members to have to go out and spend lots of time in the arena (ultimately PLing) to get enough money.
Or if we do the guild management skill thing, it would just take more time away from RPing to go towards PLing guild management in order to be able to recruit people who may be great RPers.
I like Karyuu\'s idea. I don\'t think the guild system is the real problem and I don\'t think it needs a lot of changes.
Edit: I like the idea of having a waiting period after character creation before people can join a guild.
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If a guild is successful in mass recruiting, there\'s probably a reason for it.
Sometimes, it\'s a \"noob\" guild. Maybe one day, it will be to defend Hydlaa from an evil invasion. There are different reasons for it to happen.
However, if it\'s just powerlevellers who are \"succumbing\" to these mass recruiting guilds, then what\'s the loss? I think that Sangwa has another reason for proposing this.
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Mass Recruiting guilds have few roleplayers and as such they will not defend hydlaa against anything... maybe they\'ll even endager it by driving monsters to extinction.
You haven\'t been following this idea\'s progress. The currrent idea is to have a Guild Management skill (which is realistic because different people have different managing skills) and, what I think will work better, a feature that doesn\'t allow new accounts\' characters to join a guild until they\'ve been ingame time enough.
Having fees is a good idea too.
All this features actually contribute to making a guild something more than wearing a pin. It makes it an effort. A group effort if things are done right.
Some players do not choose to be powerlevelers. It\'s simply the part of the game they\'ve been introduced to.
With a better recruiting system we could ease that and facilitate the community\'s work. Plus, there\'s no relevant set backs.
Zanzibar your paranoia, even if flattering, lacks any kind of solid arguments.
The reason I\'m doing this is simple: I am a guild leader and I want roleplaying guild members.
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Right, I\'m all for roleplay, most of you know this well; and I see Sangwa\'s point and believe it is valid and then some.
But the ideas in here, guild management skill is a skill and what makes you think the powerlevelers won\'t powerlevel that?
The fees, as has been noted before, would also just help the powerlevelers because they gain a lot of tria while powerleveling.
Neither of these will do anything more than limit the size of roleplaying guilds.
The 5 day waiting period is much more along the lines of what we need... Maybe even a council to decide whether the person wanting to create the guild roleplays enough.
Either way, I just wanted to point out the flaws of the two ideas mentioned.
Valbrandr\'s idea in the guild forums thread is the best so far, in my opinion, though it needs to be worked on.
Here (http://planeshift.oodlz.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=21604&boardid=18&sid=5a586435ef60bd048c6c7954f37d5a59&page=1#20)
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I\'ve thought about this problem and what we need is a self motivating way for people to keep their guilds active. I think it would be prudent for the guild leader to be constantly generating revenue from its active players. Inactive players would reverse this process. I\'d just call it guild revinue - and have it automatic.
10 trias a day for each member who is considered \"active\" Different accounts with the same players should not count - i.e. one player per internet connection. This would help prevent cheating.
For every member considered inactive the guild revinue would be docked -15 trias per day.
From there there are two ways to go. Initially I thought that a guild should never be generating negative revinue - just not getting any at all. This would make it profitable to have active players. Then I thought of another angle which is that it indeed does take away money from the guild. (not sure if all this money is going to the guild leader or to a guild bank account.. I\'ll assume guild leader for now.) If a guild leader has so many inactive memers that he doesn\'t remove he will start to lose money. Eventually he will be forced to try to make money to keep the guild alive - fine at first but no one is going to keep that up forever. They will either remove the inactive members or the guild will plunge into debt. Upon reaching a certain level of debt the guild would automatically disband and would need to be recreated - fee and all.
Stupid idea?
lol let me know.
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Induane\'s idea isn\'t that bad. I\'ve already got a whole guild redesign written up, so I might add something like that to it. I can think of a good rp reason for it that fits into my idea as well. I\'ll carry on reading and see what other people think.
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I haven\'t thought very much about this idea yet but as I see it now, it looks really nice Induane. :D
Though there will be some obvious consequences that need to be taken into account.
First off, a lot more guilds will be created since a lot of people will think that they have what it takes to make a profit out of it. Many of them will probably fail but it won\'t stop these new guilds from taking recruits away from other RP oriented guilds. So I don\'t thinkthat problem will be solved without making some modifications to the current idea. :)
Also:
They will either remove the inactive members or the guild will plunge into debt. Upon reaching a certain level of debt the guild would automatically disband and would need to be recreated - fee and all.
Like you said, guild leaders will recruit and then kick out inactive members when times get rough. Hopefully, they will have learned a lesson and avoid mass-recruiting the next time they create a guild.
But in the learning process, the guild leader will have caused many players to go inactive and maybe even leave the game. I know that people come and go...but still.
You understand what I mean? :D
Also, a litte response to Zanzibar\'s:
However, if it\'s just powerlevellers who are \"succumbing\" to these mass recruiting guilds, then what\'s the loss?\"
Though I believe both Sangwa and Karyuu made good replies to this already, some things are worth being repeated.
It is nost powerlevelers that are succumbing, but just players with the potential to become RP:ers. It is first when they\'ve \"succumbed\" that they have a big chance to become powerlevelers...
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I haven\'t read through the whole topic, simpl because of lack of time, but i have few things to comment.
We wan\'t game where people roleplay, so we wonder how develop it to achieve our goal. But before that we should think in what environment can we rp. We need world ruled by logical laws. Maybe rather semi logical in some ways, because magic is one of these things which you can\'t really explain with current knowledge which we have from real world.
A world where we know what may possibly happen after we cross a road. Because we can for example create a world where everytime you cross a road, you got hit with broken jar ;) . It all depends where you put the border of what we consider a semi logical world.
A world where i wan\'t to roleplay don\'t inlcude most of suggestions of this topic, if things like these will be included, i will most likely stop playing because Yliakum won\'t be for me environment where i can roleplay.
Suggestions like recent ageing or this, another fees for guilds are things which are supposed to serve rp, but in the wrong way. This are ooc solutions, because they were made by ooc needs. IC is what your character do and OOC is what you do.
You can\'t make world where your char can live if you define it by OOC rules and not IC.
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You can\'t make world where your char can live if you define it by OOC rules and not IC.
There are lots of OOC rules already, and just like you don\'t let them bother you, you shouldn\'t let this one bother you either. We don\'t have to come up with an RP rule to why a guy called \"Bigass Killer\" gets his name changed. It bothers RP and therefore an OOC rule is created.
Also, unlike many OOC rules, this one could be given a good RP explanation. Just one from the top of my head.
\"After a crisis meeting aiming to put an end to the recent guildwars, Our Octarch and the Vigesimi have decided to put a tax on guilds based on their member count. This is the first step in a process of disarming the guilds and minimising the damage caused by these conflicts.\"
It\'s nothing like trying to explain a name change or whatever...
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Originally posted by Waylander .
But the ideas in here, guild management skill is a skill and what makes you think the powerlevelers won\'t powerlevel that?
The fees, as has been noted before, would also just help the powerlevelers because they gain a lot of tria while powerleveling.
Neither of these will do anything more than limit the size of roleplaying guilds...
What your saying is inevitable. Everything can be \'power leveled\'. But an idea could be to space it out, only allow 1 rank per Planeshift day (i assume that\'s a few hours) or better still per real day.
Now people, it doesn\'t make sense for people to wait 5 days or whatever to join a guild. People get completely lost and if i were to wait just 2 or 3 days it would get on my nerves having to ask the help channel every two seconds.
You want people to start to Role Play right away yes? Then how is waiting days for a newb going to help him. It wont. In fact i reckon it would lead to the small few who get fed up of not being a part of anything and leave.
Remember if people want to power level, that\'s there choice. It happens it EVERY game and its impossible to stop unless PS have a very good system in place. And i wouldn\'t count on it being implemented anytime soon.
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Originally posted by Father Sengus
There are lots of OOC rules already, and just like you don\'t let them bother you, you shouldn\'t let this one bother you either. We don\'t have to come up with an RP rule to why a guy called \"Bigass Killer\" gets his name changed. It bothers RP and therefore an OOC rule is created.
Yea, just like all the other so called MMORPGs... But because of some weird reason i play so unfinished planeshift instead of other much more finished products.
As i told every ooc interferece, make the semi logical factor in the world wider. The wider it gets the more people may feal the place which they called home once, is no more and they go away. Others will come instead of them, but in my opinion the type of people who come will be less valuable.
Originally posted by Father Sengus
Also, unlike many OOC rules, this one could be given a good RP explanation. Just one from the top of my head.
\"After a crisis meeting aiming to put an end to the recent guildwars, Our Octarch and the Vigesimi have decided to put a tax on guilds based on their member count. This is the first step in a process of disarming the guilds and minimising the damage caused by these conflicts.\"
And it is the thing which should be base of the whole idea.
Unfortunately the rp reason which you have given, lack connection with the game events. I know you gave it as example, but i just couldn\'t accept it as fully valid explanation.
It is just saddening that people sugesting things which reason is ooc, don\'t really try to come with fully proper rp explanation.
And it is exactly what is happening in all MMORPGs what i heard of a bit more and it is why i don\'t treat them as games where i can RP.
I don\'t wan\'t PS to be such game, because i play PS only because we can RP here a lot more than in some other MMORPG.
EDIT I like the idea that a person ask to join a guild instead of being asked. I believe that would make more people wonder to which guild they want belong instead random invitations.
Guild leaders and people permitted to accept invitations would have to to put more efford on talking to the candidate.
More roleplayers would join rp guilds and powerlevelers will join always the same guilds.
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Originally posted by Sangwa
Mass Recruiting guilds have few roleplayers and as such they will not defend hydlaa against anything... maybe they\'ll even endager it by driving monsters to extincti
I mean that a mass recruiting guild one day might form in order to defend Hydlaa.
Originally posted by Sangwa
The currrent idea is to have a Guild Management skill (which is realistic because different people have different managing skills)
That\'s an absolutely horrible idea. Skills like that should be naturalistic in nature. If the player is good at it, then the character will be good at it. Why? Because it\'s human interaction. It\'s your personality, and your ability to organize and lead. You can\'t just express something like that with a stat!
Further, it\'s saying that if you want to RP, you have to (power) level up your character. Is that a good thing?
Originally posted by Sangwa and, what I think will work better, a feature that doesn\'t allow new accounts\' characters to join a guild until they\'ve been ingame time enough.
I like that idea.
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*nod* Adding yet another skill to train in hopes of stopping powerlevelers and massrecruiters seems counterproductive.
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Originally posted by Karyuu
*nod* Adding yet another skill to train in hopes of stopping powerlevelers and massrecruiters seems counterproductive.
Powerlevelers simply cannot be stopped! The only way to do it is to get rid of ALL skill advancement period. And even then, there will STILL be people who work with the same mentality. Memorizing the best spawn sites, sharing the best shortcuts, having the best weapons, spending most of the time spawn camping as opposed to interacting with other players.
It simply cannot be done, and people should stop caring.
Instead:
Make a game which is fun for the role-players! Don\'t worry about how other people will abuse the game, as long as they aren\'t doing it in a way that hurts others. And to you players? Don\'t worry if someone is more powerful than you! It isn\'t important, and there\'s no reason that such a thing should threaten your enjoyment of the game.
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All that applying a \"guild tax\" would do to big guilds is slow the powerlevelers temporarily and shut the roleplayers out almost completely. It does nothing to promote RP.
Creating a waiting period for new characters would allow newcomers to see the guilds in the game and not just join the first guild they see. This is good for guilds who actually have something to offer players...but not good for the ones who don\'t.
Newcomers can survive without joining a guild the first few days and it will let them learn things for themselves and appreciate things more.
I don\'t know why guild leaders are so focused on snatching up newcomers anyway. Maybe it\'s because they\'re easy to recruit? A good guild would be able to convince players with more experience to switch to their guild.
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Originally posted by goland
I don\'t know why guild leaders are so focused on snatching up newcomers anyway. Maybe it\'s because they\'re easy to recruit? A good guild would be able to convince players with more experience to switch to their guild.
when i started my first guild ever, i was maybe 3 weeks into the game. I didnt really enjoy RPing like i do now,all i cared about was lvling(thankfully not anymore) but the reason i recruited newcomers is because i wanted to train then so they could become better players, not because i wanted 100 members. I taught them to hunt for hides and make trias to buy a weapon and i showed them how to ask other players IC for help beyond my teachings.Eventually i got bored and left PS for a couple months. but now ive been back i havnt lvled 1 lvl, all i do IG is work on the new guild my partner and i started and RP with other players standing around.
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Originally posted by Hellios
Originally posted by goland
I don\'t know why guild leaders are so focused on snatching up newcomers anyway. Maybe it\'s because they\'re easy to recruit? A good guild would be able to convince players with more experience to switch to their guild.
when i started my first guild ever, i was maybe 3 weeks into the game. I didnt really enjoy RPing like i do now,all i cared about was lvling(thankfully not anymore) but the reason i recruited newcomers is because i wanted to train then so they could become better players, not because i wanted 100 members. I taught them to hunt for hides and make trias to buy a weapon and i showed them how to ask other players IC for help beyond my teachings.Eventually i got bored and left PS for a couple months. but now ive been back i havnt lvled 1 lvl, all i do IG is work on the new guild my partner and i started and RP with other players standing around.
First off, it\'s great to see that you came back and enjoy RPing. It\'s too bad you left in the first place though.
You\'re saying you were a powerleveler, recruited newcomers to teach them how to be \'better players\', but didn\'t care about RPing at all? I don\'t see how teaching newcomers only to hack and slash, level, and get strong weapons is much of a service towards the RPing community. So are you agreeing with what I said?
The point is, now you want to RP. You said you haven\'t leveled at all and concentrate on your guild. Guild taxes, guild management skills, and other things like that wouldn\'t allow you to do this. This is a perfect example of why adding these restrictions to guilds are the enemy of RPing.
Edit: You\'d be spending too much time scrounging for money and training your guild management skill than you should be if all you want to do is RP.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
Originally posted by Sangwa
The currrent idea is to have a Guild Management skill (which is realistic because different people have different managing skills)
That\'s an absolutely horrible idea. Skills like that should be naturalistic in nature. If the player is good at it, then the character will be good at it. Why? Because it\'s human interaction. It\'s your personality, and your ability to organize and lead. You can\'t just express something like that with a stat!
Further, it\'s saying that if you want to RP, you have to (power) level up your character. Is that a good thing?
Ehh am i like being ignored here?
First of all the Guild Management skill was my idea, why are you quoting him? :(
Second you and Karyuu seem to have this Role Playing business WAY over the top. You guys need to relax with the RP...not everyone likes it!
So give people a chance to express what they want and stop dictating saying that RP is the way to do EVERYTHING cause by the sounds of it all you guys wanna do is RP. Might as well have a game with out anything but a chat box.
I\'m not saying that i dont like RP, i should be setting an example but your giving imho really stupid (repetetive) excuses to ideas that are very good (not only mine).
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Second you and Karyuu seem to have this Role Playing business WAY over the top. You guys need to relax with the RP...not everyone likes it!
PlaneShift is all about RP.
Also just quickly skimming over what was written I saw mentions of things like fees or taxes, but as I see it the powerlevelers/massrecruiters are likely to be the ones with heeps of tria.
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Drey dont quote parts to make it look as if i dont like RP, read the rest. You do it a lot and its not good.
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Unfortunately the rp reason which you have given, lack connection with the game events. I know you gave it as example, but i just couldn\'t accept it as fully valid explanation.
It is just saddening that people sugesting things which reason is ooc, don\'t really try to come with fully proper rp explanation.
And it is exactly what is happening in all MMORPGs what i heard of a bit more and it is why i don\'t treat them as games where i can RP
I understand what you\'re saying and you\'re completely right. I agree that the ideal for RP would be to have IC rules but like I said, you cannot give an IC explanation to everything either.
The most IC explanation in this case would probably be that Sangwa (and others who believe they are losing members to mass-recruiting guilds) get a high position in politics and manage to implement these laws. Then the original reason for a change would be respected. Do you agree, Nicolem? :)
Drey dont quote parts to make it look as if i dont like RP, read the rest. You do it a lot and its not good.
Having read what you said, and what Drey said, he never said that you don\'t RP.
He said you\'re wrong when not seeing RP as prime element of PS, and I completely agree with him. It has been stated many times that this game is all about RP, and that people who are after powerleveling would be better off playing a hack n\' slash game.
Also, who came up with an idea shouldn\'t matter much in the end, since it\'s all for the good of the community ;)
To Goland and Zanzibar who seem to be on the same track.
The point is, now you want to RP. You said you haven\'t leveled at all and concentrate on your guild. Guild taxes, guild management skills, and other things like that wouldn\'t allow you to do this. This is a perfect example of why adding these restrictions to guilds are the enemy of RPing.
I agree a lot in this post, but it\'s not just for the sake of it. I think you guys are making lots of good points.
Finally, a little idea. Even though it goes against Nikodemus idea of having OOC rules be born from IC needs.
In Ultima Online they have a skill cap system where players have 700 points to place on different skills. The skillcap for each skill is 100, meaning you can max 7 skills.
I heard about an upcoming system in PS where RM\'s would reward Roleplayers, though I don\'t know what the rewards would be yet.
Wouldn\'t it be possible to combine having skillcaps with RP rewards? So a person that does good RP is rewarded with his skill cap being raised a little. That would make powerlevelers become less skilled than RP:ers, no matter how much they train and probably encourage them to do RP.
RP:ers would also have to train their skills from time to time, but it wouldn\'t make them become powerlevers but rather better RP:ers. A player who has 0 skill in blacksmithing and is RP:ing a Master Blacksmith isn\'t a good RP:er. It\'s about having the skills to back up your talk. :)
Please let me know what you think about this idea...
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hmm I\'ve been reading this thread and to be honost it sounds way to jelous of large guild. To frustrated that something doesn\'t work and blaming it on something with no proof it\'s the case.
At the moment I haven\'t seen a mass recruiting guild like Radiant Fate or Guardians of the Way. There are plenty of people running around without a guildtag. Now if you can\'t convince these people to join don\'t lash out to guilds that are larger but in your opinion not better then your own guild.
And when is something massrecruiting? I mean the Dragon Council was acused of this aswell. We grew fast and so we HAD to massrecruit.
Anyhow the measures I see so far wont discourage powerlevel guilds but would only make it impossible for RP guilds to exist. You will have money when you are a succesfull powerlevel guild. How much money will you have as a roleplaying guild with only people who don\'t level at all?
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My idea didn\'t punish large guilds at all, in fact it would have made them profitable as long as a guild could maintain an active member list. It was simply a way to encourage guild leaders to be ingame, running their guild, helping their members, and making it interesting to RP and play so that maintaining your guild became self motivated. Mass recruiting isn\'t worth anything if you have a guild of 150 persons and 145 of them are inactive or long gone. Whats the RP value in that? Hey look at our list? It is really big! ... ummm wow cool. Having a small ammount of money received per active player could make a large mass recruiting guild profitable for the guilds as long as they kept people active. How does one do that - they remove players who are gone, and spend more time ingame trying to keep it interesting for their members whom they depend on for guild profit. How is this bad for big guilds?
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Originally posted by Father Sengus
Unfortunately the rp reason which you have given, lack connection with the game events. I know you gave it as example, but i just couldn\'t accept it as fully valid explanation.
It is just saddening that people sugesting things which reason is ooc, don\'t really try to come with fully proper rp explanation.
And it is exactly what is happening in all MMORPGs what i heard of a bit more and it is why i don\'t treat them as games where i can RP
I understand what you\'re saying and you\'re completely right. I agree that the ideal for RP would be to have IC rules but like I said, you cannot give an IC explanation to everything either.
The most IC explanation in this case would probably be that Sangwa (and others who believe they are losing members to mass-recruiting guilds) get a high position in politics and manage to implement these laws. Then the original reason for a change would be respected. Do you agree, Nicolem? :)
You spell and write it \"Nikodemus\" x)
And your second explanation sounds better.
But still, i would like to see as few as possible ideas based on ooc reasons, because these simply breaks rp at some of its point. I find the idea behind this thread not worth of another ooc solution with ic imitating solution.
The idea maybe is good, but not for rp game.
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Haha sorry about that. Thought you\'d heard about the fusion between Nikodemus and Ecolem :P
My bad...hehe
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But still, i would like to see as few as possible ideas based on ooc reasons, because these simply breaks rp at some of its point.
Not necessarily. We have rules for naming for ooc reasons. IC there is no reason someone couldn\'t be named Eiffel Tower, because no one IC should know of the irl tower and people have freewill to give names. Yet we have these rules to encourage role play and keep down on distraction from real life so that we can easily find ourselves lost in the world of PS. OOC rules are necessary in order to keep a persistant world realistic and believable. Not everyone is equiped with an uber imagination capible or rationalizing ooc things in character or they lack the practive. Good OOC rules promote RP, not break it.
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That\'s an absolutely horrible idea. Skills like that should be naturalistic in nature. If the player is good at it, then the character will be good at it. Why? Because it\'s human interaction. It\'s your personality, and your ability to organize and lead. You can\'t just express something like that with a stat!
What about the Charisma and Intelligence stats? I really don\'t think you\'ve got a point there.
Even if it can\'t control mass-recruiting (curse them resourceful powerlevelers!) it would be realistic to have a skill that depended on your charisma to limit your guild size. It\'s not that realistic to have some one with low charisma leading a big guild.
Anyway, what I truely think will work better regarding mass-recruiting is Shorty\'s idea: to impossibilitate new Accounts\' characters to join a guild until a week ends. This way they\'ll have plenty of time to be explained what roleplay is, to rethink their character in a roleplay way and then join the appropriate guild or become a freelancer.
Or maybe they\'ll join my underground network of new players who didn\'t join mass-recruiting guilds. And then I\'ll order them to assassinate Zanzibar.
:O Did I just say that out loud? :O
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Originally posted by Induane
But still, i would like to see as few as possible ideas based on ooc reasons, because these simply breaks rp at some of its point.
Not necessarily. We have rules for naming for ooc reasons. IC there is no reason someone couldn\'t be named Eiffel Tower, because no one IC should know of the irl tower and people have freewill to give names. Yet we have these rules to encourage role play and keep down on distraction from real life so that we can easily find ourselves lost in the world of PS. OOC rules are necessary in order to keep a persistant world realistic and believable. Not everyone is equiped with an uber imagination capible or rationalizing ooc things in character or they lack the practive. Good OOC rules promote RP, not break it.
The thing with these ooc rp promoting rules is they indeed promote them, but in rather ooc way, in ic way they often do the opposite at some point, no matter how much we try to make them ic.
Another reason why i don\'t like these. In theory if they both promote and dispromote, we loose nothing. So i could agree on that, seeing as others want it because of their reasons.
But i want the world to be as much ic as possible, World=ic_rules+ooc_rules. Increasing one we decrease another.
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World=ic_rules+ooc_rules
I\'m not sure about my math hehe, but your math equation only works if \"World\" never changes - i.e. is not a variable. SInce that is not the case, then increaseing one doesn\'t necessarily decrease the other. ... ok I\'m kinda joking on the math problem :D
Still, I don\'t think that that equation really proves anything other than an opinion. Some OOC rules help, some hurt, its the nature of things. Just because a rule is created because of an OOC need doesn\'t automatically make it bad for the world - its not a given that an ooc rule subtracts from IC things. There is a creation fee of 20000 trias, which is basically an ooc event described in IC terms. It was done to prevent guild creation spam. That doesn\'t mean the rule is perfect, but there isn\'t anything inherently wrong with a rule like that. They exist - RP\'rs will continue on as if its completely normal, incorporating it into their RP so its not OOC at all to the world.
I thought some more and here is what I think is fair.
Considering it takes 20K to start a guild, it is reasonable that a guild leader also generate revinue from its guild.
Breakdown:
10 Trias per day for each active member that day.
- a member has an active day if they are online for 1 hr or more.
0 Trias per day for each player that is not online that day.
-15 Trias per day for every character deemed \"inactive\"
- An inactive player is a player who has not had 1 active day for more than 30 days.
* days refers to real life times, not the ps clock which is tough to sync to. A guild leader does not get trias for his/her online time.
A guild leader may fall into debt. If his/her debt reaches -20k the guild is automatically disbanded. Debt transfers to other characters upon transfer of guild leardership. When the guild disbands the debt factor is reduced to 0, but only if it automatically disbands. If a guild is disbanded by the leader while in debt, the debt remains.
As for IC explanation, several excellent ones were suggested that work fine.
Large guilds who can maintain active players will make good money. Maintaining a large guild is more difficult however. A active power leveler can keep his guild out of debt easily for a while, but eventually he will quit playing. Powerleveling guilds will collapse eventually.
any corrections/suggestions/uberjigglyotherstuff?
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*shoots a load of uberjigglyotherstuff*
Excuse me, but I fail to see how many of these suggestions promote RP. Such as stat/skill related guild size :rolleyes: or fees for a growing number of members (though I got the impression that idea got already discarded).
I think the discussion here hasn\'t taken into account that PS is growing all the time and in the future (when it\'s somewhat \"finished\" ^^) there ought to be guilds that reach throughout whole Yliakum and these guilds most likely will have hundreds of members. So penalizing for a high member count or trying to limit the size of guilds doesn\'t sound reasonable to me.
Induane, I agree on these highlighted parts:
Originally posted by Induane
My idea didn\'t punish large guilds at all, in fact it would have made them profitable as long as a guild could maintain an active member list. It was simply a way to encourage guild leaders to be ingame, running their guild, helping their members, and making it interesting to RP and play so that maintaining your guild became self motivated.
but what quarantees you have that guild leaders will try to keep their members by motivating RP and not by other, more OOC ways of fun? IMHO none. You can not force someone to RP :)
I think Shorty\'s idea is right on the money, in my first week of playing PS I accepted a random guild invite and another week or two later the whole guild was gone. Why didn\'t somebody stop me? 8o
The other suggestions come out to me more as a drug for the sympton and not as cure for the disease.
As goland said on the first page:
Originally posted by goland
I propose that instead of worrying about guild sizes we cut the problem down at the roots.
Upon starting the game, newbies should be presented overwhelmingly with the need to do RPing. Whether this is through a quest or whatever. I believe that this would be a step forward to grooming players for RPing so that they can control guilds themselves without the need for any enforcement from game mechanics.
I\'d say PS needs a good tutorial system which teaches the young ones the game mechanics and basics BUT also advices them to wait and select a guild that fits their character the most and stresses that the main focus of PS is on RPing *points to the above quote*
Hmm hmm hmm... I guess that\'s all I have to say for now. Good day to all :))
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I\'d say PS needs a good tutorial system which teaches the young ones the game mechanics and basics BUT also advices them to wait and select a guild that fits their character the most and stresses that the main focus of PS is on RPing
Well, here I go making commercial about the Shelter again, but I really believe it is the sollution to all this. The only real backside is that it will not be able to take care of all the newbies. :(
Here\'s a thread where the idea has been discussed a little. http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=21361&boardid=11&styleid=3
And yes, we are still looking for somebody to help us make a website, though a simple one this time. :)
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That is great what you are doing Sengus :)
But there is that simple fact that not every new player can get personal guidance from other players :( , hence the need for an IG tutorial system also. This type of mechanic system could never be as good as personal tutoring of course, but atleast it\'s something. I\'d really be pleased to see less of the \"i\'m new what to do\"-questions at the plaza X)
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I\'d like to say that once things are more stable and there is more to explain to newbies than \"This is a game in early development so not many things are available,\" NPCs will be able to help out a ton more, we will have a better guide on the website, and the like.
Besides that, newbie tutorials have been discussed many times before in the Wishlist :)
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Originally posted by Ecolem
Second you and Karyuu seem to have this Role Playing business WAY over the top. You guys need to relax with the RP...not everyone likes it!
There is only one emoticon to respond to this!
>.>
i) Planeshift is an RP game. While you can help train others, it should (read: must) be in character. Fundamentally though, Planeshift IS all about RP by intention of the people who have made it. That means no leet-speak, and no honouring of people just because they have max-stats.
ii) When I was more active, I was widely considered to be a powerleveller. Before you resort to ad hominem attacks in the future, I advise that you wait until you know a little bit more about who you\'re addressing.
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Originally posted by Karyuu
Besides that, newbie tutorials have been discussed many times before in the Wishlist :)
I had a tinkling feeling about that one being true :D
Guess I should\'ve searched and put a link to one of those threads at the end of my post. But... aaaah, I\'m just lazy :P
That however wasn\'t my point.
My thought was that if this thread really is meant for figuring out ways to reduce the numbers of losing prominent RPers to mass-recruiting guilds, then IMO it\'s gone way off track with such suggestions as limiting guild sizes and taxes and whatnots.
PS. I now tried to search for some wishlist thread about newbie tutorials that would inform players about RPing too but couldn\'t find one. I\'d appreciate if someone could post a link to an ancient thread concerning that :)
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[ Read some of the following :) ]
Entry level game training. (http://planeshift.oodlz.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=15172&boardid=11)
Training Academy (http://planeshift.oodlz.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=10586&boardid=11)
\"noob\" world (http://planeshift.oodlz.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=9355&boardid=11)
Newbie island?? (http://planeshift.oodlz.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=2363&boardid=11)
Helping a newbie! (http://planeshift.oodlz.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=16481&boardid=11)
Anaani Academy (http://planeshift.oodlz.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=8763&boardid=11)
And now I\'ve completely lost track of the thread :>
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Reor. You have no idea what we\'re speaking about, have you?
We\'re speaking about measures that make recruiting difficult for mass-recruiting guilds which lure players with trias and weapons and then point the way to the arena.
How does this promote RP?
Check these easy steps of achieving RP promoteness:
1. New players have time to understand this is a roleplaying game (they don\'t get told \"Here. There\'s a weapon, now join my guild and slice them wicked Rogues!\");
2. They thoughtfully consider the character they created;
3. A conclusion is finaly reached and they roleplay their path, joining the other players in the evergrowing roleplaying community of Planeshift;
4. They help other new players and thus, RP Promoteness is achieved.
Plus there is no way a guild leader could gather different people under his will without having good charisma and some Guild Management skills. I like the idea too. Though I can see some issues with its training... Heh, that would be a tough part.
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Ah, thank you for those links Karyuu
I guess newbie was the keyword XD
Originally posted by Sangwa
Reor. You have no idea what we\'re speaking about, have you?
We\'re speaking about measures that make recruiting difficult for mass-recruiting guilds which lure players with trias and weapons and then point the way to the arena.
How does this promote RP?
Check these easy steps of achieving RP promoteness:
1. New players have time to understand this is a roleplaying game (they don\'t get told \"Here. There\'s a weapon, now join my guild and slice them wicked Rogues!\");
2. They thoughtfully consider the character they created;
3. A conclusion is finaly reached and they roleplay their path, joining the other players in the evergrowing roleplaying community of Planeshift;
4. They help other new players and thus, RP Promoteness is achieved.
Plus there is no way a guild leader could gather different people under his will without having good charisma and some Guild Management skills. I like the idea too. Though I can see some issues with its training... Heh, that would be a tough part.
Well the things in that list we\'re what I was thinking, particularly the first two. When the new player is more aware of the world and what his character is supposed to be, he/she is less likely to say \"Yes\" when a mass-recruiting guild asks him/her to join and instead thinks \"That probably isn\'t the right guild for me\". Therefore the mass-recruiting guild gets less people and doesn\'t grow too large, do you agree?
Still don\'t like the idea of adding another skill just for the purpose of increasing a guilds size...
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A skill would only mean an other thing to level. Doesn\'t seem very RP encouraging I think. Nor very realistic what is an other goal of PS.
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I have to disagree. It will further the realistic part of the game. It is hard to imagine an uncharismatic person leading a big guild.
I agree that it might be troublesome though.
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I don\'t think that such a skill would be a bad idea, at least not if the game was more or less complete. It is meant to involve political careers anyway.
I think the problems about the skill is rooted in the fact that you can only learn from fighting (which might be the biggest problem in PS by now). Killing this feature might be the solution for this problem, such as some other RP-concerned problems. I guess that would be a big deal and i am sorry i cannot help because of my poor skills of programming, but i think it is much more important to do this than discussing about temporary solutions for the time when you only learn by fighting.
please don\'t ban me, i do not want to blame anyone with this ;)
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Hi
Hmm, I don\'t know much of the guild things, but here\'s some of my thoughts:
Personally I think we should promote roleplaying by making more fun stuff for roleplayers, not by restricting others. We could reward well playing guilds with something that money can\'t buy (eg. a place in NPC knowledge base, unique banners...), since they and their actions (both good and evil) would be \"well known\" to average Hydlaa citizen.
(Imagine a random NPC crying, with tears in her eyes, telling horrible stories of the Cabal. While bards sing praises of Ordo Illuminatis.)
I am thinking, a per member fee for guilds would further the guild\'s need to hoard treasures, thus giving them more reason to hunt creatures. An one time fee to allow guild to advance over certain member count, would be better from that point of view, but might result in same consequences. The guilds that want to grow fast, would need money fast.
I think charisma could affect to the characters leadership abbility, but I\'ll leave it up to the rules department to decide.
*edits*
To hitancrias: That confirms that I\'m not very aware of the guild stuff. ;) Still there\'s many more citizens to convince.
Thanks for reading. :)
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Originally posted by Cherppow
(Imagine a random NPC crying, with tears in her eyes, telling horrible stories of the Cabal. While bards sing praises of Ordo Illuminatis.)
Actually, one guild I know of has already be rewarded in such a way. There is an NPC who talks about an \"Exploration guild\", if asked the right questions. :D
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Originally posted by Karyuu
Crimsonn will have to do the searching - looking through the stickied Guild List may be a good first step in narrowing down the preferred purpose of the guild.
Concerning mass recruiting, I still like my old (http://planeshift.oodlz.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=18832&boardid=11) idea of reversing the process - meaning that players will have to send requests to join, and guilds accept. It will at least encourage guilds to hold conversations and try to catch the eyes of new players, instead of immediately inviting anyone willing to click \"Accept.\"
A-STINKING-men! I could deal with this well enough. As well you as guild members could RP recruiting.
I am against any form of money and was turned here by a powerleveler. I have a great relation with many Powerlevelers. THey have not ruined my game. I started as one before the wipe and tried it again, but found that I liked to help others more... [No I am not an advisor but I do their job well enough :P] So that is how I go about and with how I am set in my guild I need to have some power gamers for the requirements that I stack on them. They need to kill large prey with normal weapons. So they boost scores and ask me to train them to beat the prey the best they can.
I need to know that I have strong and smart members in our guild (IC) for war times. They are a needed part to give the flavor I try to balance in my order of the guild.
Though yes I do like the idea that they must ask and any that have permission to /inviteguild can still let them in.
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hmmm having people request to join a guild. Now thats an idea I think would indeed effectively kill massrecruiting at the \"everything with two legs\" approach.
I think thats a very good idea indeed Karyuu :)
It is hard to imagine an uncharismatic person leading a big guild
It\'s hard to imagine someone being charismatic if he has to level everything and thus hardly roleplays and when he does he is being rusty at it.
So we have a skill we would have to level and money that needs to be earned to grow and all this would make people roleplay more?
As said before this would make the need to gather money and to level only greater
I think the goal is admirable, but the means don\'t seem to work to the goal you mentioned.
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I agree with Pestilence.
Kandrek is not very Charismatic. He has too many scars and does not have a very educated presence about him. When he relates to deep disscussions he alwyas brings it back to war and trys to explain it in that fashion.
Now as IRL I have met very Charismatic people that many will follow for a few weeks and then it all falls apart. Then there are those who are honest, true, loyal, and helpful (can be played by good or evil characters, and don\'t give me crap about no good and evil I already know) who slowly gain support of others but their organizations are soild from day one until well after they leave. They do not have much charisma but they have true friends and that is what makes them strong with the groups.
So let them mass recruit, they want to start a guild war AWSOME!!!! This will result in great RP for the other guilds who need to beat down the Power level guild! Think LOTR, Gandal\'fs crew agains Salron\'s lot. You think the orcs were social? The Uruk Hai only spoke when it came to killing in great anger (few exceptions). Why limit those who wish to have this mentality. So they are into power leveling, when they max out they will be gone if they did not find good friends.
This is my opinion.
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Originally posted by Induane
World=ic_rules+ooc_rules
I thought some more and here is what I think is fair.
Considering it takes 20K to start a guild, it is reasonable that a guild leader also generate revinue from its guild.
Breakdown:
10 Trias per day for each active member that day.
- a member has an active day if they are online for 1 hr or more.
0 Trias per day for each player that is not online that day.
-15 Trias per day for every character deemed \"inactive\"
- An inactive player is a player who has not had 1 active day for more than 30 days.
* days refers to real life times, not the ps clock which is tough to sync to. A guild leader does not get trias for his/her online time.
A guild leader may fall into debt. If his/her debt reaches -20k the guild is automatically disbanded. Debt transfers to other characters upon transfer of guild leardership. When the guild disbands the debt factor is reduced to 0, but only if it automatically disbands. If a guild is disbanded by the leader while in debt, the debt remains.
As for IC explanation, several excellent ones were suggested that work fine.
Large guilds who can maintain active players will make good money. Maintaining a large guild is more difficult however. A active power leveler can keep his guild out of debt easily for a while, but eventually he will quit playing. Powerleveling guilds will collapse eventually.
any corrections/suggestions/uberjigglyotherstuff?
This is the first GOOD idea I have read thusfar, IMO. Powerlevelling guilds gain lots of players for a little while, but the players get bored and become inactive one by one. Eventually, PL guilds become economically unviable, and eventually disintegrate. Roleplaying guilds, on the other hand, gain very few members and the members stay active. Thus RP guilds gain much money, and stick like glue.