PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: zanzibar on January 29, 2006, 10:48:40 am
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Even if all the skills and spells are implimented....
Even if the already gorgeous game recieves the rest of the character models, clothing, and items....
Even if there\'s a huge bestiary and many maps.....
That won\'t be enough to save Planeshift.
So my question is, what will be the point of it? What will save it?
What I mean is, characters need to have a constant motivation that everything else is framed around. The quests which are in game right now are very limmited, and seem to be rooted mostly in the pursuit of material wealth or power. There\'s no evil army to fight, or a great war which players are taking sides in, or political espionage or a mystery or anything else for that matter that players enter the game with as their primary concern. Right now, there\'s just power levelling, exploring, and socializing.
I think those are all great things in their own way! But if Planeshift is going to succeed, isn\'t it going to have to have that extra dimension of \"a main quest\"? In Castle of the Winds, it\'s finding revenge on those who murdered your parents. In Daggerfall, it\'s putting to rest the ghost of a murdered Prince - with a few twists added in. Going to classic literature which is the basis for all this, the structure becomes even more illustrated.
So what will this be in the case of Planeshift? Will there be one at all? What do you devs have planned, and what can you tell us about it?
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New skills will bring new people, new people bring new intrests, new intrests brings bla bla bla. Why be a pessimist when you can be an optimist.
Since when was Limited spelt with two M\'s?
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I think there is so much to do still, that thinking of what will happen next is utopic, imho :-)
I prefer to concentrate on what to do now and all those skills/features/etc. are not implemented, so there is still plenty of game to be developed!
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Originally posted by fireofsoul
New skills will bring new people, new people bring new intrests, new intrests brings bla bla bla. Why be a pessimist when you can be an optimist.
Since when was Limited spelt with two M\'s?
I think you\'re missing my point. New people are coming all the time, but they don\'t stay! The \"regulars\" are prone to long breaks. And fundamentally, the issue is still there. There is no \"main quest\".
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Will knowing a main quest help anyone stay, if they can\'t do anything about it at the current game version?
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i get your point, but there are more new people coming than old people leaving, it will be a slow process but it will happen. You can either grab the train now or you will never be able to catch up with it. <-- hey that sounds quite cool :)
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Originally posted by fireofsoul
You can either grab the train now or you will never be able to catch up with it. <-- hey that sounds quite cool :)
That makes no sense. Even if it sounds good, it still makes no sense.
Originally posted by Karyuu
Will knowing a main quest help anyone stay, if they can\'t do anything about it at the current game version?
Simply knowing that there will be something like a main quest would be nice.
edit: And go to sleep. :|
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Im saying if you dont stop bickering you will miss all the new people and you will remain ignorant of what really is happening, and then there will be another post and then I will post in it and then it will happen again.
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No, he has a point - I\'ve wondered about it myself often, but I\'ve always come back to \"It\'s so early\" - thus it didn\'t bother me too much.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
New people are coming all the time, but they don\'t stay! The \"regulars\" are prone to long breaks.
Which is pretty much as is expected. I\'m surprised at the ones that do stay. Please don\'t talk like this is a finished game; it isn\'t. I played, I got bored with it, I switched to bug hunting and then bug fixing. I don\'t see how it\'s possible to \"stay\" and do anything more than socializing.
I see PS as a long term project. Right now, for example, we need to focus on creating a system to handle a main quest, before we actually make one. I essentially agree with your point, but it\'s not yet the time to make that argument. PS will be largely a programming project for another good year, at which point I\'ll hopefully have learned how to use Blender. :D Once we have a fully functional engine, and our base of stats/skills/objects/whatnot done, that\'s when it\'s time to start thinking about expanding the world with everything we could ever imagine.
On an unrelated note:
Castle of the Winds! \\o/
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I know that there is stuff planned for a main storyline and such. But I don\'t think this is something for us to worry about yet. You talk about \'saving\' planeshift as if it\'s a full game. Once we hit a version like 1.0 then we can worry less about making the game and more about \'saving\' it. As for people leaving now.... well if people want to leave they can.... I don\'t care that much. (apart from a few select people who I do care about 8)) People will always get bored with MMO\'s because players never really have a big impact on the story or progress of the game, which is a very hard thing for us to allow. Anyway, I saw quite a lot of people having fun ingame yesterday, and even if they don\'t stay for long, they\'ve had a good time while they\'re here.
Oh yeah.... Castle of the Winds \\o/
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Go to Laanx.fragnetics.com. Good. Click on Statistic. Yay! Now look at the characters registered page. You see that there is more than 3 chars per minute at times? So what makes you think that son there will be less? We have 6 billion people in this world...
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Originally posted by zanzibar
I think you\'re missing my point. New people are coming all the time, but they don\'t stay! The \"regulars\" are prone to long breaks. And fundamentally, the issue is still there. There is no \"main quest\".
I like to think im some what of a regular... and the most ive ever taken out is like a week or so when i went on holiday.
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I don\'t know if I got the main quest idea completely right, but I don\'t think it fits PS at all. If, when you start playing, you are launched into a main quest it should probably lead to the quest ending someday. What then?
The closest thing to a main quest we should get, is an RP:ed lifetime goal of our characters. Did I get this all wrong now? :(
EDIT: And to answer to the question what we could do to make people stay, I think we should just look at what it is now that makes the people who stay, stay. :P My guess would be it\'s the ones that have gotten a passion for RP and that it clearly must be the key...
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I\'d have to disagree Sengus, many are leaving because they have a strong passion for RP.
Nobody plays the same way, people even seem to have different definitions of Roleplay.
I think that once crafting is added it may get better.
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I would have to disagree with those saying long time players who leave are a problem. I have considered myself to be playing PlaneShift for years, even tho I have spent very little of that time in game. There is no pressing need to keep playing, to level up as in most games, and no fear of being left behind by friends. I can come back anytime I want, and have done many, many times already. That is one of the parts of PlaneShift that I treasure more then anything else.
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Dave is on target here. This is pre-alpha. It isn\'t back of the envelope new, but it\'s nowhere near the stage where it needs \"saving\".
I do wonder how they\'ll afford all the bandwidth if this game ever does get popular. I was under the impression that these things were expensive operations.
I also think it is good to talk about potential pitfalls. Having no story-arc that drives the \"universe\" is not the norm for MMORPGs, but if you take most of them for example, you\'ll realise that the major story-arcs are usually ignored, if not downright meaningless (no one is ever supposed to win, so beside creating PvP, they have small value). I\'m hoping that this world gets large enough that you create your own story-lines by simply travelling from one place to the next. THAT is pretty utopic, though. Oh what I\'d give for something like Neverwinter Nights implemented on a MMORPG scale. More than, say, free, that\'s for sure.
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That\'s for sure a good topic, even if it\'s expressed in a negative way.
A mmorpg is made of many things, and surely one is the \"aim\" of the game. Each of us (players) can have different aims, like socializing, roleplaying, checking what new technology (fog, shaders, etc...) PlaneShift can run on your PC, etc...
But these are goals of the player, not the ones of the character.
About the aim of your character here are a number of points:
- We discussed the \"aim\" many times in the past and come up with a number of points. We have plans for providing a lot of inspiration for your characters to have something to do in the world of PlaneShift. We care about the problem, but it\'s still a bit early to enable it fully
- A character can search fame and popularity by creating new powerful guilds that will increase in wealth and members, creating powerful alliances with NPC-managed guilds and merchants and with other guilds
- A guild or group can explore the Stone Labyrinth trying to find if there is a world \"outside\" the walls of Yliakum
- The hydlaa city and other main cities have to fight for the incoming invasions from the Labyrinths. New creatures, new techniques, new tunnels are dig to attack the city and no one is safe without brave heroes to defend the cities. (In the future you can expect to find cities conquered by evil NPCs)
- A char can decide to become expert in many different areas, like a certain way of magic, or about the death realm, or about ancient lore and create a shop/activity about it
- Many high social positions will be available to expert players, like vigesimi, octarchs, guild masters, etc... reaching that position will be hard but doable.
- The game will have a main plot unfolding. I cannot say much about it atm, but surely it will be a big \"goal\" for all the characters. Some major quests that will expand the game and will change it permanently.
- We want to introduce many abilities for characters to change/edit the world, with jobs, creating new items, or building new houses.
As you may see there will be plenty of goals or aim for your character, we just need these new features to be created. Those are surely not ready yet.
In the meatime you can debate about what is the next thing you want to see, but you cannot say there will be nothing to do. A RPG is the most evoluted game ever, we just need PlaneShift to be a full RPG like we want.
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What exactly is the business model for this, though? How on earth can you really expect to have literally thousands upon thousands of people, all hosted on servers with no advertising? I mean, so far everything is good, but what about when there is a need for like the 4th, 5th, or 20th server? Then what?
Servers are by no means cheap (or the bandwidth that you need to use them), so what\'s the game plan here? All donations? That will get stale over time ?(
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The beauty of a game like this, is things come along. With more players, means more passion, and more people who want to help in the support of the game. Donations I would think would be a possibility.
The open source community has already expressed a good deal of interest in PlaneShift, considering how far the game has come already with it being free and open source.
...and why do you even worry about it? Leave it up to the PlaneShift team to worry about it...unless you have a server to donate. ;-)
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Originally posted by Mezasa
What exactly is the business model for this, though? How on earth can you really expect to have literally thousands upon thousands of people, all hosted on servers with no advertising? I mean, so far everything is good, but what about when there is a need for like the 4th, 5th, or 20th server? Then what?
Servers are by no means cheap (or the bandwidth that you need to use them), so what\'s the game plan here? All donations? That will get stale over time ?(
People will donate in various ways because it\'s populist in nature.
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Originally posted by Vjorin
The beauty of a game like this, is things come along. With more players, means more passion, and more people who want to help in the support of the game. Donations I would think would be a possibility.
The open source community has already expressed a good deal of interest in PlaneShift, considering how far the game has come already with it being free and open source.
...and why do you even worry about it? Leave it up to the PlaneShift team to worry about it...unless you have a server to donate. ;-)
Sticking our heads in the sand isn\'t going to answer the question. Donations can seriously expect to keep up with overhead as the game gets larger? That\'s hard to believe.
The question is an honestly good one being as people can dedicate a large amount of time to MMOGs. Spending three years beta testing a game to see it disappear overnight is kind of horrifying to ponder. Assuaging those fears is reasonable to expect from whatever comprises \"the team\" in any event.
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I really really believe that even if the development might appear slow, PS will not disappear overnight, especially considering the efforts of everybody in making the game as nice as possible.
I believe that the team has gone through bad and good periods, but like for everything, the show has gone on and we still believe in this game.
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No FLOSS project dies, they just sometimes hibernate for some (indefinite) amount of time. And PS is already big enough to be over that stage, there is always something going on.
And as a FLOSS project, a lot of hackers play it and a lot of server offers come up. One dedicated server can deal with A LOT of players, so there are more mirror offers than needed (talking about the game server).
So yeah, as was already stated, the only people that have problems are the ones that take PS as a full(time) game already. As with everything, patience is key. :)
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One hing you missed about the entire game... It is not the game that is fun, but it is the players that create the atmosphere in-game.... Try and think of something interesting that will improve the game. I think i added something to the game using only the recourses available in-game. I created an in-game newspaper and the tournament business. Bodacher created a shop. And there are many more players that will think of goals and/or events in the game. A game with a goal, is a game that will not last verry long.
This is a fact, not a question. Once players have reacheds a certain goal, they will loose interest and leave. It is the never ending flow of ps that makes this game so much fun to play.
So get of your lazy buts [sorry \'bout that :)] and find ways to improve this game without the help of any new technical stuff. I know it can be done!
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Fellas are definitely fanatical with the role-playing--I\'ll give you that. Although, on the street, I haven\'t heard a single conversation that didn\'t sound OOC at some point. Doesn\'t mean you guys aren\'t there, slinging the roles around, I\'m just curious what different people think role-playing is meant to \"sound\" like.
One analogy being, I don\'t think I can fool myself into thinking my guy has a hat on, when...he clearly does not have a hat on. The game needs to be there to allow me to put a visual cue on my character in the semblance of a hat. Without that, I would rather break out the dungeon master\'s guide and seriously \"role-play\" a guy with a hat on, 100% in my head. Halfway there just doesn\'t seem to work all that well for me. Why insist on it?
If you want to create a 100% strictly enforced role-playing game, it\'s going to have to be private--or tyrrannical and elitist. This was the wrong idea to build that city on the hill for \"care bears\". Something like Neverwinter Nights, with handpicked players would work, only with a lot of standing around and talking before you shoot the zombies in the neck. In any event, I find a lot of this talk kind of pretentious and vain.
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PlaneShift\'s purpose is to be a true roleplaying game in the sense that you act in-character as much as possible. This is the goal of the team, and all players should realize that. If in doubt, there is a stickied Player Policy made by Talad, the very head of the project, explaining this. However, the current state of the game does make it difficult - no one can argue against it.
But. As the game grows, as the world expands and features become available, there will be more and more concentration on in-character actions instead of 3D chatrooms - anyone who played MB and then CB would already see the huge differences. No one is forcing anyone to roleplay, but roleplay always has the first priority - that is why anyone intentionally disturbing it will get a very quick kick, that is why we have roleplay Naming Rules, and etc. This is not being fanatical, this is explaining what the game is meant to be for.
Originally posted by BlackAcre
If you want to create a 100% strictly enforced role-playing game, it\'s going to have to be private--or tyrrannical and elitist.
Although I can definitely assure you that it won\'t be possible in the slightest to make PlaneShift a 100% enforced roleplaying game, I am wondering what the problem would be if the dev team wanted this? It is their project, their hobby, their brainchild - you are here for free, paying absolutely nothing but your time. If you disagree with their rules, you can leave and go do something else. There are no chains and shackles, no contracts, nothing to keep you here if you do not like it.
Moreover, there are a lot of people who for some strange reason think that roleplaying means standing in one spot and being all \"bardic.\" This is nonsense. Roleplay is doing anything in-game as your character, instead of the player sitting at the computer. You can train at the Arena for hours and be in-character. The only thing that matters, is that you interact as much as possible with the characters of other people, instead of the players.
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Originally posted by Karyuu
PlaneShift\'s purpose is to be a true roleplaying game in the sense that you act in-character as much as possible. This is the goal of the team, and all players should realize that. If in doubt, there is a stickied Player Policy made by Talad, the very head of the project, explaining this. However, the current state of the game does make it difficult - no one can argue against it.
But. As the game grows, as the world expands and features become available, there will be more and more concentration on in-character actions instead of 3D chatrooms - anyone who played MB and then CB would already see the huge differences. No one is forcing anyone to roleplay, but roleplay always has the first priority - that is why anyone intentionally disturbing it will get a very quick kick, that is why we have roleplay Naming Rules, and etc. This is not being fanatical, this is explaining what the game is meant to be for.
Originally posted by BlackAcre
If you want to create a 100% strictly enforced role-playing game, it\'s going to have to be private--or tyrrannical and elitist.
Although I can definitely assure you that it won\'t be possible in the slightest to make PlaneShift a 100% enforced roleplaying game, I am wondering what the problem would be if the dev team wanted this? It is their project, their hobby, their brainchild - you are here for free, paying absolutely nothing but your time. If you disagree with their rules, you can leave and go do something else. There are no chains and shackles, no contracts, nothing to keep you here if you do not like it.
Moreover, there are a lot of people who for some strange reason think that roleplaying means standing in one spot and being all \"bardic.\" This is nonsense. Roleplay is doing anything in-game as your character, instead of the player sitting at the computer. You can train at the Arena for hours and be in-character. The only thing that matters, is that you interact as much as possible with the characters of other people, instead of the players.
Thank you! Well put. :)
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Originally posted by Karyuu
PlaneShift\'s purpose is to be a true roleplaying game in the sense that you act in-character as much as possible. This is the goal of the team, and all players should realize that. If in doubt, there is a stickied Player Policy made by Talad, the very head of the project, explaining this. However, the current state of the game does make it difficult - no one can argue against it.
But. As the game grows, as the world expands and features become available, there will be more and more concentration on in-character actions instead of 3D chatrooms - anyone who played MB and then CB would already see the huge differences. No one is forcing anyone to roleplay, but roleplay always has the first priority - that is why anyone intentionally disturbing it will get a very quick kick, that is why we have roleplay Naming Rules, and etc. This is not being fanatical, this is explaining what the game is meant to be for.
Originally posted by BlackAcre
If you want to create a 100% strictly enforced role-playing game, it\'s going to have to be private--or tyrrannical and elitist.
Although I can definitely assure you that it won\'t be possible in the slightest to make PlaneShift a 100% enforced roleplaying game, I am wondering what the problem would be if the dev team wanted this? It is their project, their hobby, their brainchild - you are here for free, paying absolutely nothing but your time. If you disagree with their rules, you can leave and go do something else. There are no chains and shackles, no contracts, nothing to keep you here if you do not like it.
Moreover, there are a lot of people who for some strange reason think that roleplaying means standing in one spot and being all \"bardic.\" This is nonsense. Roleplay is doing anything in-game as your character, instead of the player sitting at the computer. You can train at the Arena for hours and be in-character. The only thing that matters, is that you interact as much as possible with the characters of other people, instead of the players.
They have offered to the public a game. If they want to make it strictly enforced, then that should be what the public wants, and not their cadre of elites, but it\'s completely within their rights to do so anyway. If you did this now, you would, of course, be creating quasi-contractual obligations that didn\'t exist before, and this sort of thing would probably drive a good many players away--which isn\'t altogether important. I stand by my conviction that this would be tyrrany and just a crap move on their part in any event.
As well, the \"leave if you don\'t like it\" mantra is a rhetorical attempt to defuse arguments by denying them to be heard. If any number of players want to air their greivances, they should be heard, not ignored or minimalized. Banishing or shaming them isn\'t going to get my support. It\'s also, completely within the rights of the developers. But again, you don\'t hold something out to the public, offer it for free, and then retract it over and over again while qualifying their use of it, if you know what\'s good for your product. Or hell, maybe that\'s the definition of open source.
Me personally, I think the naming rules should be narrowly defined, rather than forcing anything remotely recognizable as English to be banned. Which contradicts the point you make that \"nobody is forcing anyone to roleplay.\" You\'ve forced me to use an incoherent jumble of letters having no rational foundation other than it sounds like something you might read in a conan comic-book--rather than a name which is just as plausible in any universe. Simply banning l337 names and numbers would be enough. Cesalthino is no less pretentious than \"Crackle\", one being a frequentative of \"crack\" no more or less offensive and no more or less likely than any other name given to a 6 foot tall horned demon from an unknown hellish home, and the other being a meaningless word jumble created by a generator. So, in effect, we\'ve already enforced role-playing. OOC conversation must be in parentheses, so role-playing is indeed, already enforced. The question I keep asking is when and where does the enforcement stop. I see very poor reactions to anyone suggesting anything but puritannical role-playing directives--and I think that\'s the wrong way to go.
As far as what role-playing is or isn\'t, I won\'t argue the point. I have my preconceptions, and nothing in this game has so far, changed those preconceptions. I\'m hoping that it will as I\'m new, so hopefully that\'s really all it is. I don\'t spend a whole lot of time in game as of yet, the client is still kind of dodgy on the mac.
Finally, the online \"community\" should create itself, and not be directed like Providence Plantations, to behave itself in certain ways. I think if the game gives us things to do, it\'s easier to role-play--that\'s all. Role-playing at the expense of fun is what I want to avoid in the end. Sometimes, what happens in a meta-aesthetic sense, above and beyond what character you are playing, is what makes a MMORPG fun, but I think I might\'ve stated that already. Of course, this could all just be the Hamiltonian in me, hoping for the best, worried over the possiblities a \"new republic\" has in store for it. I think MMORPGs similarly get to recreate society in a sense everytime a new one begins, I think that\'s fairly cool to watch.
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Originally posted by BlackAcre
They have offered to the public a game. If they want to make it strictly enforced, then that should be what the public wants, and not their cadre of elites, but it\'s completely within their rights to do so anyway.
PlaneShift is not aimed at every single type of player in the world. This is not a game for people seeking a pure hack-and-slash experience, nor is it a game for people wanting a solo journey. This is an MMORPG ;) The development team has defined what they expect of the people coming in to stay - and to change their goals completely to bend to the will of a small portion of the public would be a silly thing to do, particularly as I said, PlaneShift is their brainchild.
If you did this now, you would, of course, be creating quasi-contractual obligations that didn\'t exist before, and this sort of thing would probably drive a good many players away--which isn\'t altogether important.
Indeed - the loss of players who refuse to roleplay at all or hinder the roleplay experiences of others is not a cause for tears. Many have come and many have gone, and PlaneShift is as strong as ever.
As well, the \"leave if you don\'t like it\" mantra is a rhetorical attempt to defuse arguments by denying them to be heard. If any number of players want to air their greivances, they should be heard, not ignored or minimalized. Banishing or shaming them isn\'t going to get my support.
You can complain all you want about the development team\'s goals and rules, but I fail to see the point - are you attempting to make them change their project? If this game doesn\'t suit you, why stay and try to make it into something else? I could understand if the rules were truly hideous and limiting things, but as it is now, they are simply encouraging players to act in-character - hardly an issue to make a fuss about, is it?
But again, you don\'t hold something out to the public, offer it for free, and then retract it over and over again while qualifying their use of it, if you know what\'s good for your product.
Nothing has been retracted - I\'m having a bit of difficulty deciphering your point in this sentence. This game is free, certainly, and anyone can try it to see if they like it and want to remain - but it\'s not an \"I\'m here so I can do anything I want and act in any way I like\" deal. You are a guest here, a participant in an event organized by other people who have offered you a free ticket - do you attend a free concert and then complain when others tell you that there are certain expected behaviors?
Me personally, I think the naming rules should be narrowly defined, rather than forcing anything remotely recognizable as English to be banned.
Anything remotely English is not banned, as you put it. The GMs try to use their best personal judgment, and unless the names are truly a mess (Mister Pieman comes to mind), they are often left for players to report - so if no one else minds, they remain. Names like Whiskers, Stonefoot, Crackle, as you mentioned, would be left as they are - there is no reason to change them.
Which contradicts the point you make that \"nobody is forcing anyone to roleplay.\" You\'ve forced me to use an incoherent jumble of letters having no rational foundation other than it sounds like something you might read in a conan comic-book--rather than a name which is just as plausible in any universe.
Does it worry you so much to be called \"Kadaran\" instead of \"Bigfoot,\" for example, if you are not interested in roleplay?
So, in effect, we\'ve already enforced role-playing. OOC conversation must be in parentheses, so role-playing is indeed, already enforced. The question I keep asking is when and where does the enforcement stop.
As this is a game in development, so is the fine-tuning of our rules. As DaveG stated in another thread, the IC-OOC issue is something the devs are discussing quite a bit lately. But most, if not all, of the information you are looking for can be found in the stickied Player Policy. If you are not purposefully disturbing another\'s roleplay, there should be no reason to take any actions.
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The following could be seen as an off-topic hijack/rant, please ignore if you feel that it does so.
The planeshift dev team has a goal (or a mission) to create a game which: takes unique approaches at content, encourages roleplaying to a far greater degree than any other game in its class, among numerous other things. Of course I\'m not a part of the dev team, so as far as I know their real goal could be to take over the world. But let\'s make the former assumption.
You do not pay to play: you do not pay the dev\'s salary. This is not their job, it is a hobby. With that in mind, the devs have absolutely no obligation to listen to you/the community (where in other games you pay for a product so they are obligated to appease you). They could, if they wanted, completely remove the fighting system, recreating the MB feel of a virtual chatroom (only closer to a 3d larp with all the items and tradeskills)*. But I assure you this is not in their plans.
They could do what ever they want; it is _their_ game, not the community\'s. They don\'t have to do anything to please the community; they do not have to maintain it either. Having said that, this dev group has actually listened to the community, and based much of what is put in the game on what the community wants (which makes them totally awesome).
If you like the game, be grateful you\'ve gotten to see it, much less play it. Add constructive comments, offer to help out, since we\'re lucky enough to have devs that listen to the community that follows their game.
PS could be developed forever if it were closed off from the public and there were no community. The devs will not lose their ability to program or desire to create such a game if you (or anyone) stops visiting the forums or playing the game. Needless to say, many of the devs would not see the point if they didn\'t have a growing community to see the results they produce. So stick around, encourage them to continue working on the game.
tl;dr version: the community isn\'t an integral part of the development of planeshift. People come and go, get used to it. If you stick around, help out. Have a nice day.
*The idea of a \"3d larp\" is clearly a flawed relation, only meant to lighten the mood; it is not a part of the discussion, please don\'t comment on how dumb it is.
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PlaneShift is not aimed at every single type of player in the world. This is not a game for people seeking a pure hack-and-slash experience, nor is it a game for people wanting a solo journey. This is an MMORPG ;) The development team has defined what they expect of the people coming in to stay - and to change their goals completely to bend to the will of a small portion of the public would be a silly thing to do, particularly as I said, PlaneShift is their brainchild.
I don\'t think it\'s nearly as small a portion of the public as you\'re convincing yourself can take or leave role-playing, but if you polemicized the issue, then I suppose most people will say they are \"for role-playing\".
Indeed - the loss of players who refuse to roleplay at all or hinder the roleplay experiences of others is not a cause for tears. Many have come and many have gone, and PlaneShift is as strong as ever.
That\'s your characterization, not mine. Besides, loyalty matters little to the conversation.
You can complain all you want about the development team\'s goals and rules, but I fail to see the point - are you attempting to make them change their project? If this game doesn\'t suit you, why stay and try to make it into something else? I could understand if the rules were truly hideous and limiting things, but as it is now, they are simply encouraging players to act in-character - hardly an issue to make a fuss about, is it?
Again, you\'ve characterized my argument pretty horribly. And again, telling me to leave isn\'t constructive. I\'ve aimed a little constructive criticism at the game, nothing more. Besides that, if this project were complete, we\'d be talking about changing it, since it isn\'t, we\'re talking about what kind of game we want in the first place.
Nothing has been retracted - I\'m having a bit of difficulty deciphering your point in this sentence. This game is free, certainly, and anyone can try it to see if they like it and want to remain - but it\'s not an \"I\'m here so I can do anything I want and act in any way I like\" deal. You are a guest here, a participant in an event organized by other people who have offered you a free ticket - do you attend a free concert and then complain when others tell you that there are certain expected behaviors?
I didn\'t say anything has been retracted yet. I was talking about what would be a bad idea, not what was currently going on. But, to answer your question, if someone handed me a ticket to an AC/DC concert, and I discovered once inside that it was actually Stryper--I\'d complain.
Anything remotely English is not banned, as you put it. The GMs try to use their best personal judgment, and unless the names are truly a mess (Mister Pieman comes to mind), they are often left for players to report - so if no one else minds, they remain. Names like Whiskers, Stonefoot, Crackle, as you mentioned, would be left as they are - there is no reason to change them.
Here is where personal experience actually comes into play--I had a dude named Crackle, and someone changed it to \"Cesalthino\". I petitioned, to no avail. The bar isn\'t very high for some player to whine about someone\'s name, so effectively, I\'m saying that you\'re mistaken here.
Does it worry you so much to be called \"Kadaran\" instead of \"Bigfoot,\" for example, if you are not interested in roleplay?
It bothered me from the get go, but not so much anymore. I don\'t mean to sound sensitive, I\'m not in practice.
As this is a game in development, so is the fine-tuning of our rules. As DaveG stated in another thread, the IC-OOC issue is something the devs are discussing quite a bit lately. But most, if not all, of the information you are looking for can be found in the stickied Player Policy. If you are not purposefully disturbing another\'s roleplay, there should be no reason to take any actions.
Let\'s hope so.
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Originally posted by BlackAcre
I don\'t think it\'s nearly as small a portion of the public as you\'re convincing yourself can take or leave role-playing, but if you polemicized the issue, then I suppose most people will say they are \"for role-playing\".
I would prefer that you get to know the PlaneShift community a bit before thinking that you know how many are for what ;)
I\'ve aimed a little constructive criticism at the game, nothing more. Besides that, if this project were complete, we\'d be talking about changing it, since it isn\'t, we\'re talking about what kind of game we want in the first place.
But the game is a roleplaying game. What kind of game you want matters not at all, to be awfully blunt.
But, to answer your question, if someone handed me a ticket to an AC/DC concert, and I discovered once inside that it was actually Stryper--I\'d complain.
So then you say that there is a matter of some \"false advertising\" in PlaneShift? I would really love for you to pinpoint to specifics here.
I don\'t want to address specifics of the naming rules in this thread, as it is another issue the GMs want to address privately and discuss for a while before more finalizations or decisions. However, the GM team has been reorganized since just a while ago, and are working together with the players really well so far.
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Originally posted by BlackAcre
I didn\'t say anything has been retracted yet. I was talking about what would be a bad idea, not what was currently going on. But, to answer your question, if someone handed me a ticket to an AC/DC concert, and I discovered once inside that it was actually Stryper--I\'d complain.
AC/DC...Stryper...is there really a difference? : P Just playin.
What seems to be an issue here is that there is a misunderstanding of what the dev team is obligated to provide the community.
Here\'s an analogy that I think might work....
You want a shed built but don\'t have the tools or resources. A friend of yours can get all the lumber and materials for free and offers to build you a shed at no charge. They build it for you with no guarantees of how long it would last. Now say 5 years down the road the shed falls apart. Is it the friend\'s obligation to fix it for you? Is the friend liable for it falling apart?
Personally, it would be against my morals to hold the friend accountable. Would other people do different and complain to the friend? Unfortunately, at least in the US, I think the answer is yes. I hope this isn\'t true for anyone who\'s a part of this community though.
So we can make this analogy relevant by saying that the shed is Planeshift and the friend is the dev team. Should we complain to the dev team if Planeshift doesn\'t turn out how we want? I don\'t think so. They can do whatever they want with it. The game engine is open source and any of us have the opportunity to make our own game using some of the material that\'s a part of Planeshift.
It seems many people don\'t understand this business model because we\'re used to buying things that have warranties or guarantees. Corporations that make money off of other games out there have obligations to their audience because they need to make money. Planeshift isn\'t bounded by this type of model. This is bad for people who want planeshift to tailor to popular demand. It\'s good for those who want a free game and embrace the view of the dev team.
Edit: Fixed some spelling errors
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Mmm...that analogy doesn\'t quite work I don\'t think. As far as I\'m aware, the Devs are not making PS on our request. We didn\'t ask them to make PS (At least I didn\'t). They\'re making PS because they want to, because they find it a fun hobby and enjoy watching us populate it.
A better analogy would be:
PS is like a group of friends who declare they are building a tree fort/club house. As they are building it, they invite other friends and people of the neighborhood to come and play, finished or not, to enjoy each new feature as it is done. They listen as the people offer suggestions to improve the fun of the fort, and sometimes they agree, sometimes not.
But the visitors are just that, visitors to the fort, which belongs to the group of friends. The group of friends are under no obligation to the visitors other then common courtisy, which I have never not seen.
Even should many of the visitors declare that they never wish to come to the fort again, that is not a concern. For they wish to build the fort for the fort\'s sake, because they love to create and it brings them joy.
That\'s how I see PS and its Team.
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Originally posted by Karyuu
Originally posted by BlackAcre
I don\'t think it\'s nearly as small a portion of the public as you\'re convincing yourself can take or leave role-playing, but if you polemicized the issue, then I suppose most people will say they are \"for role-playing\".
I would prefer that you get to know the PlaneShift community a bit before thinking that you know how many are for what ;)
I\'ve aimed a little constructive criticism at the game, nothing more. Besides that, if this project were complete, we\'d be talking about changing it, since it isn\'t, we\'re talking about what kind of game we want in the first place.
But the game is a roleplaying game. What kind of game you want matters not at all, to be awfully blunt.
But, to answer your question, if someone handed me a ticket to an AC/DC concert, and I discovered once inside that it was actually Stryper--I\'d complain.
So then you say that there is a matter of some \"false advertising\" in PlaneShift? I would really love for you to pinpoint to specifics here.
I don\'t want to address specifics of the naming rules in this thread, as it is another issue the GMs want to address privately and discuss for a while before more finalizations or decisions. However, the GM team has been reorganized since just a while ago, and are working together with the players really well so far.
Again, once more, to reiterate! I am using hyperbole to illustrate my concerns. There is not going to be a \"winner\" in this exchange, so if get over the idea of defeating each other\'s arguments point by point, then it might be more helpful. I don\'t think there is \"false advertising\" currently underway, but if you release this game, call it a MMORPG, people not unlike myself will come with preconcieved ideas, ill or not, about how MMORPGs run. They will expect things to run a certain way, and draconic enforcement of role-playing is not one of them. These things are implicit. The only difference between this game and other MMORPGs (besides its \"alphaness\") would be the \"free\" part of the equation. Maybe that\'s part of the purpose for being open source, so role-playing can be dictated from on high without obligations to a playerbase.
Aside from all that, I am not going to say much more. If \"working with players really well\" means the players that didn\'t have a problem, then I guess you\'re right.
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Originally posted by goland
Originally posted by BlackAcre
I didn\'t say anything has been retracted yet. I was talking about what would be a bad idea, not what was currently going on. But, to answer your question, if someone handed me a ticket to an AC/DC concert, and I discovered once inside that it was actually Stryper--I\'d complain.
AC/DC...Stryper...is there really a difference? : P Just playin.
What seems to be an issue here is that there is a misunderstanding of what the dev team is obligated to provide the community.
Here\'s an analogy that I think might work....
You want a shed built but don\'t have the tools or resources. A friend of yours can get all the lumber and materials for free and offers to build you a shed at no charge. They build it for you with no guarantees of how long it would last. Now say 5 years down the road the shed falls apart. Is it the friend\'s obligation to fix it for you? Is the friend liable for it falling apart?
Personally, it would be against my morals to hold the friend accountable. Would other people do different and complain to the friend? Unfortunately, at least in the US, I think the answer is yes. I hope this isn\'t true for anyone who\'s a part of this community though.
So we can make this analogy relevant by saying that the shed is Planeshift and the friend is the dev team. Should we complain to the dev team if Planeshift doesn\'t turn out how we want? I don\'t think so. They can do whatever they want with it. The game engine is open source and any of us have the opportunity to make our own game using some of the material that\'s a part of Planeshift.
It seems many people don\'t understand this business model because we\'re used to buying things that have warranties or guarantees. Corporations that make money off of other games out there have obligations to their audience because they need to make money. Planeshift isn\'t bounded by this type of model. This is bad for people who want planeshift to tailor to popular demand. It\'s good for those who want a free game and embrace the view of the dev team.
Edit: Fixed some spelling errors
I think you\'ve probably hit the nail on the head. I would like them to tailor the game to popular demand. Seems like open source is a populist model in the first place. I suppose I can leave it at that. Good analogy, I think.
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Originally posted by Stephen McNaire
Mmm...that analogy doesn\'t quite work I don\'t think. As far as I\'m aware, the Devs are not making PS on our request. We didn\'t ask them to make PS (At least I didn\'t). They\'re making PS because they want to, because they find it a fun hobby and enjoy watching us populate it.
A better analogy would be:
PS is like a group of friends who declare they are building a tree fort/club house. As they are building it, they invite other friends and people of the neighborhood to come and play, finished or not, to enjoy each new feature as it is done. They listen as the people offer suggestions to improve the fun of the fort, and sometimes they agree, sometimes not.
But the visitors are just that, visitors to the fort, which belongs to the group of friends. The group of friends are under no obligation to the visitors other then common courtisy, which I have never not seen.
Even should many of the visitors declare that they never wish to come to the fort again, that is not a concern. For they wish to build the fort for the fort\'s sake, because they love to create and it brings them joy.
That\'s how I see PS and its Team.
Sheesus, art for art\'s sake as applied to video games doesn\'t quite map in my opinion. But I understand the rationale--I guess I can respect that. Good luck and don\'t drink the kool-aid.
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Originally posted by Stephen McNaire
Mmm...that analogy doesn\'t quite work I don\'t think. As far as I\'m aware, the Devs are not making PS on our request. We didn\'t ask them to make PS (At least I didn\'t). They\'re making PS because they want to, because they find it a fun hobby and enjoy watching us populate it.
Yes, you\'re right...it didn\'t completely work. It gets the same message across though. I like your\'s better.
Anyways..
BlackAcre, if you exaggerate in debating something people won\'t usually take your arguments seriously. Just a tip.
There is no draconic enforcement of rp-ing in planeshift. I doubt anyone intends for there to be. If things became very strict then many would leave..and move on to something else to do with their time...nothing to fuss about though because this would probably never happen.
Also, if someone sees the label MMORPG and automatically anticipates for the game to be a certain way then I am sure they\'d be dissappointed if they tried to play and MMORPG that tried to stray a little from the norm.
I don\'t see anyone trying to be the \"winner\" in this discussion. Karyuu is trying to help you understand how the game and community work as she\'s been here for quite a while and knows a good deal about these things. It\'s a lot easier to follow a discussion when points are addressed one by one.
To expand on the opensource licensing...something can be opensource and still not be free. There\'s a lot of different opensource licenses and some have different requirements for duplication and use. The fact that the game is free intially, free to play continuously, and opensource are signs of a willingness by the dev team to give to the community. This doesn\'t mean they\'ll give you what you want....whatever they give you is what you get. That\'s how opensource projects usually work. If you want the game to be different, the source is open for you to see, and depending on the licensing, duplicate.
As far as PlaneShift goes, I\'m sure the dev team is trying to make as many people as happy as possible while not straying from their values. Of course they can\'t please everyone. This is why people are as free to leave as they are to come. If the game isn\'t what you think it should be, I\'m sure there\'s another game out there that might be.
Edit: BlackAcre, you missed my point in my last post it seems.
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Originally posted by BlackAcre
There is not going to be a \"winner\" in this exchange, so if get over the idea of defeating each other\'s arguments point by point, then it might be more helpful.
It\'s simply the usual way to respond to posts on this board. Don\'t read into it too much.
PlaneShift is a MMORPG. And it is already \"released,\" as you put it. What matters is the ease with which players can learn about the game\'s rules, and adapt. Again, if they are seeking a hack-and-slash game or aren\'t willing to participate in roleplay occasionally, this game isn\'t for them, and it will be made quite clear.
/end :)
[ By the way, quoting entire posts of others and then replying with a few sentences, in three separate posts, isn\'t a good idea for future reference. Please try to combine your posts into one, and don\'t overquote when it isn\'t necessary. ]
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To save this game? community involvement. :)
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What the heck happened to my thread? What are you all fighting about?
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I don\'t know :/ Maybe you could read it and figure it out?
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Originally posted by Karyuu
I don\'t know :/ Maybe you could read it and figure it out?
Maybe later....
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Originally posted by goland
Originally posted by Stephen McNaire
Mmm...that analogy doesn\'t quite work I don\'t think. As far as I\'m aware, the Devs are not making PS on our request. We didn\'t ask them to make PS (At least I didn\'t). They\'re making PS because they want to, because they find it a fun hobby and enjoy watching us populate it.
Anyways..
BlackAcre, if you exaggerate in debating something people won\'t usually take your arguments seriously. Just a tip.
...
Edit: BlackAcre, you missed my point in my last post it seems.
A) I didn\'t miss your point. I disagreed with your point.
B) Most people use hyperbole at some point or another during a debate. It\'s a rhetorical device I use when I\'m comfortable talking with people. Apparently, I assumed too much congeniality--a mistake I won\'t make again.
C) I\'m not nearly as invested in this debate as you might think. Someone has to play the devil\'s advocate, in my opinion. And I can do that.
D)(1) Zanzibar(?) stated that the scheme for supporting planeshift was a \"populist\" one, based on community donations, which made implicit that this game would have community support.
D(2) I\'m curious why making a game tailored to community desire is then not where this game is going?
D(3) There are many very good answers as to why not.
E) Thank you all, calm down and have a good day today--it\'s someone\'s birthday somewhere.
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Originally posted by BlackAcre
D(2) I\'m curious why making a game tailored to community desire is then not where this game is going?
It isn\'t? :) Or is every visitor that passes through Yliakum automatically part of the community?
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Originally posted by BlackAcre
I think you\'ve probably hit the nail on the head. I would like them to tailor the game to popular demand. Seems like open source is a populist model in the first place. I suppose I can leave it at that. Good analogy, I think.
That\'s exactly the opposite of what I said.
Planeshift receives donations from the some parts of the community. Does this mean the dev team is expected to go against their values to make any individual in the community happy? No. An individual that isn\'t actually contributing much to the project would have to be quite arrogant to think that the dev team will tailor the game to their individual wants and needs.
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Originally posted by goland
PlaneShift receives donations from the some parts of the community.
Not really, if you\'re referring to money. Talad is quite adamant about not involving any of it in the project unless absolutely necessary, and we\'re nowhere near a dire need yet :)
The only things donated (besides the server, of course) are time and effort.
Yay! \\o/
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Originally posted by goland
Originally posted by BlackAcre
I think you\'ve probably hit the nail on the head. I would like them to tailor the game to popular demand. Seems like open source is a populist model in the first place. I suppose I can leave it at that. Good analogy, I think.
That\'s exactly the opposite of what I said.
Planeshift receives donations from the some parts of the community. Does this mean the dev team is expected to go against their values to make any individual in the community happy? No. An individual that isn\'t actually contributing much to the project would have to be quite arrogant to think that the dev team will tailor the game to their individual wants and needs.
Okay, to return volley, you missed my point. I think your analogy was good. The conclusion you arrived at was different than mine. Such is life. Furthermore, I\'m just taking the long-view here, I\'m not certain my slippery slope will necessarily come to pass, nor can you be.
*edit*
Originally posted by Karyuu
Originally posted by BlackAcre
D(2) I\'m curious why making a game tailored to community desire is then not where this game is going?
It isn\'t? :) Or is every visitor that passes through Yliakum automatically part of the community?
This game is still too new, I guess, to see community trends. I\'m thinking of a time at some distant point, when PS is as large as say, AO--It could happen! Well, most likely not, but in any event, I\'m describing potential outcomes. I don\'t contend they are going to be the case, just possbilities. If the developers create version of this game that gets wildly popular...It could happen! What happens then, when the \"community\" is several thousand strong (i\'m talking active, not registered)? Do the devs continue to ignore public will? Or are we to hope the \"community\" continues to share group-think with the dev-team? Or is it the hope that the game doesn\'t grow past its available \"boundaries\"?
Please avoid posting two or more successive posts before others have replied. Just edit your last post to add new information :) I\'ve pointed this out before. Thanks! --Karyuu
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Originally posted by BlackAcre
What happens then, when the \"community\" is several thousand strong (i\'m talking active, not registered)? Do the devs continue to ignore public will? Or are we to hope the \"community\" continues to share group-think with the dev-team? Or is it the hope that the game doesn\'t grow past its available \"boundaries\"?
As I said, this is their brainchild. If the public ever demands a step down from roleplay, the devs will ignore ;) The dev team owes you absolutely nothing. Those who don\'t like it can leave, those who prefer it will stay. It has already been happening. But I\'m repeating things now, and so are others, and thus I\'ll take my leave from here.
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Originally posted by Karyuu
Originally posted by goland
PlaneShift receives donations from the some parts of the community.
Not really, if you\'re referring to money. Talad is quite adamant about not involving any of it in the project unless absolutely necessary, and we\'re nowhere near a dire need yet :)
The only things donated (besides the server, of course) are time and effort.
Yay! \\o/
I was talking mainly time and effort (coding, graphics, and whatnot from community members on the dev team).
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If all games are made to appeal to everyone,
Then all games will end up being the same.
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That was a complete circle, I mean wow.
I never thought people could do that unless they had planned it or something.
I get the feeling that everybody is only reading their own posts though and nearly completely ignoring what others say.
All the same, getting back to the topic; the game doesn\'t need to be saved. It is perfect for the people it has so far been made to please.
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BlackAcre, if the goals of the dev team and the interests of the player base don\'t overlap enough, there will never be a \" several thousand strong community\". Problem fixed. :]
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Maybe the game needs to be saved for people who are in it for the hack-n-slash and levelling. It is perfectly fine for the RPers.
With the recent unannounced weapons wipes and even failing to put any stickies up about the wipes and just telling people that complained about it to check their attitude, it is obvious that the powers that be want to completely rid this game of the hack-n-slashers. Oh well, doesn\'t bother me much, but I\'m sure there are many who are pissed.
(now I wait to see if a dev tells me off and closes this thread, haha)
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Originally posted by ylikone
With the recent unannounced weapons wipes and even failing to put any stickies up about the wipes [...]
...Que?
News from the main page: (http://www.planeshift.it/main_01.html)
2005.07.27
The most interesting feature introduced is a new module for treasure generation. Until today all monsters had scripted loot, so you basically get a named set of items from them, with a random probability for each item to appear. The new system has a more powerful loot generator that can create thousands of different items, each with its own unique bonuses and maluses. The system is not yet complete, more controls on the generation are needed to avoid spawning too powerful items on low level monsters. This means that in the first run, you will get quite powerful items. Those will most probably be removed with a wipe of objects a few weeks after the first, when all controls will be present.
[...]
We are aware that a wipe is not a popular action, but you should consider that PS is still in tech demo stages, so we have to reset characters when the updates requires it.
Character Wipe (http://planeshift.oodlz.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=14529&boardid=13&styleid=4)
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Originally posted by Karyuu
Originally posted by ylikone
With the recent unannounced weapons wipes and even failing to put any stickies up about the wipes [...]
...Que?
News from the main page: (http://www.planeshift.it/main_01.html)
2005.07.27
The most interesting feature introduced is a new module for treasure generation. Until today all monsters had scripted loot, so you basically get a named set of items from them, with a random probability for each item to appear. The new system has a more powerful loot generator that can create thousands of different items, each with its own unique bonuses and maluses. The system is not yet complete, more controls on the generation are needed to avoid spawning too powerful items on low level monsters. This means that in the first run, you will get quite powerful items. Those will most probably be removed with a wipe of objects a few weeks after the first, when all controls will be present.
[...]
We are aware that a wipe is not a popular action, but you should consider that PS is still in tech demo stages, so we have to reset characters when the updates requires it.
Character Wipe (http://planeshift.oodlz.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=14529&boardid=13&styleid=4)
Yes, dated 2005.07.27... which is ONLY 6 MONTHS AGO.
Ok, I will stop talking about this now. Am looking forward to the big wipe.
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It\'s still there on the main page, not like you had to use the Search button for it :P
But there\'s a lesson in here too - I (or anyone) should\'ve made some note in the Character Wipe sticky about weapons as well.
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What?? The game IS saved! It\'s already better than many that you have to PAY to play.
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I thought the big wipe has already taken place.
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The \"Big Wipe,\" as it has been dubbed, is a wipe of all the characters - so skills, stats, inventory, everything. All characters will have to be recreated from scratch.
This wipe has just been a removal of weapons with a slash above 10.
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No, I understand that. But I thought there was a big wipe months ago. I only assumed so because I created and played an account on an earlier version of PlaneShift, but when I came back recently, I didn\'t have any characters.
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Ah, my mistake. There was a wipe before, but it certainly isn\'t the only one to happen ever. There will be many to come until the team feels that stability has been reached and balancing no longer requires a clean start. We\'re so early in development that sometimes wipes are simply necessary - and they are never done if they can be avoided.
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OK. I will try to both answer the original question in this thread and provide my perspective on some of the issues raised.
As far as needing some sort of overall goal to \"save\" PS from losing players to boredom or lack of motivation, I may have agreed before I really thought about the focus of PS. Having some grand overarching objective would be cool, though it would of course eventually come to an end (unless there is a continuous string of new ones -- who has the time?), but if the focus of PS is on having a large world with strong roleplaying then such an objective is not needed. The motivation in such a world comes from you as a character in the game world and your interactions with the other characters (player or non-player).
At the moment there may not be much else to do other than kill a limited number of monsters and mine some gold, but as more and more features are added there will be an increasing number of options for going on your own adventures (either alone or in a group). When there are seven levels to explore and all sorts of skills it will be much easier to form a group to go on a grand adventure to a far away city and search for the treasure rumored to be hidden there. Right now this may be feasible, but having some drinks in the tavern and shooting the breeze with fellow adventurers is still fun.
Now this doesn\'t mean that some sort of large scale quest or objective would detract from the game, but I don\'t think its necessary. Also, as more features/areas/skills/etc are added some of the players who left will come back to try them out, and there will be more and more new players all the time. (Who can resist such beautiful game that\'s free to play and open-source?) I agree that you can visit the same area only so many times and when I reach that point I may take a break, but I\'ll be glad for the time I spent with the game.
As for some of the issues about the expectations for RP seeming too strict and driving away many new players, and the mods on these boards occasionally seeming too blunt or ill-tempered when responding to concerns regarding these expectations, I would have originally agreed as well. But then I thought about from their point-of-view and realized that they (devs and mods) are likely tired of continually emphasizing that the focus of PS is on roleplaying. Also, since RP is the focus having \"only\" 10,000 people interested in actual role-playing would make the game more successful than having 1,000,000 players with 99% of them named \"h4x 4nd sl4shz0r\" saying \"HEY PPLS WHER IZ teH SEWRZ!! GIVE ME A SORD I WILL KILL j00!\" I would have to agree.
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Personally, I don\'t think that people would bother complaining or making suggestions about the game, or even wanting to save it, if they didn\'t like it in the first place or if they didn\'t care for it.
That\'s why I think \"don\'t like it, don\'t play it\" argument is rather unfriendly or even rude.
If I play a game and I absolutely hate it from the get-go, I will not even bother posting about saving it or making suggestions to the devs on how to improve it. I simply would not care enough and move onto a better game instead.
Having said that, the fact that devs work on it on their free time and that the game itself is free should be appreciated, of course. But they made this game public and hope to attract players and other developers, so they should expect both, positive and negative feedback.
If they really don\'t want to hear negative feedback, they are just as free to make this game private (to play with each other) and the \"problem\" is solved.
C\'mon, if people want to play and enjoy this game and they\'d like to see improvements, there\'s nothing wrong with suggesting one thing or another.
I\'m not bashing the devs or mods or even anyone here. I know their jobs can be hard. And no, the devs don\'t \"owe\" anyone anything. But it is understanable when people voice their concerns about where the game is going. I don\'t think they take it for granted, I certainly don\'t. I just think that a typical player/dev relation with positive and negative feedback is unavoidable, just because this game is free.
I really wouldn\'t want to be a part of a forum where everyone only posts positives about a game, and anything negative is bashed and/or censored, only to be disappointed rather than prepared for a game\'s cons later. I do agree that discussions on negative should not get out of hand. Keeping things civil is important. :)
Just IMO, so don\'t bash me for it. I wouldn\'t even be here if I didn\'t want PS to succeed. ;)
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**Pre-warning: I\'ve only read the first page of this topic, so I might have missed a lot in the other 3 pages, I\'m just too lazy to read the rest... :D**
Having read Talad\'s post, I\'d like to see a possible bounty system included in planeshift in the future. One where people who do things unlawfully (Steal, Killing NPC\'s or other players in non-combat areas) get a bounty rating lpaced upon their head (Placed on NPC and Player Characters).
A bounty hunter(s) can then sign up for the task of tracking down and killing these unlawful people, for a reward based on the bounty rating.
To keep this from becoming a scene where every person who joins is a bounty hunter and there are no evil characters, a system where evil factions/guilds require a certain bounty rating before they will allow your to join their guild or buy there items. This would encourage people to be evil, which will encourage others to be good. Which in turn, should provide a roughly natural balance of GoodVSEvil to keep players entertained. (AI logical based quests from NPC is limited, but the mind of a gamer is limitless, let the players create the quests on the fly)
Imagine having a 100000Tria bounty on your head for your unlawful crimes, your always living on the run, never staying in the same town longer then a few hours, just so people don\'t spot you and alert the local bounty hunters.
I personally reckon it would be a blast to be an evil character on the run, never safe, but making a lot of money and getting a reputation with the evil guilds. But I would also see it being awesome being a lawfully bound character, tracking down these evil characters and trying to return peace to our world. Making a lot of money in the process ;)
Anyway, just my 2 Hexa worth :D
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Originally posted by zanzibar
Even if all the skills and spells are implimented....
Even if the already gorgeous game recieves the rest of the character models, clothing, and items....
Even if there\'s a huge bestiary and many maps.....
That won\'t be enough to save Planeshift.
So my question is, what will be the point of it? What will save it?
What I mean is, characters need to have a constant motivation that everything else is framed around. The quests which are in game right now are very limmited, and seem to be rooted mostly in the pursuit of material wealth or power. There\'s no evil army to fight, or a great war which players are taking sides in, or political espionage or a mystery or anything else for that matter that players enter the game with as their primary concern. Right now, there\'s just power levelling, exploring, and socializing.
Hate to break it to you, but the most played and well known mmorpg was based off of that alone though I hate the most people like it. it being Runescape
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Originally posted by Xyl
Having read Talad\'s post, I\'d like to see a possible bounty system included in planeshift in the future. One where people who do things unlawfully (Steal, Killing NPC\'s or other players in non-combat areas) get a bounty rating lpaced upon their head (Placed on NPC and Player Characters).
There already is a bounty system in place.
It\'s called \"role playing\".