PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: LinkN64 on January 29, 2006, 05:16:11 pm
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I was walking in that forest area and I killed the rogue that usually has a crowd around it. Well I killed the rogue,and the entire crowd reported me....will I be banned? I did one thing,but what if people think that I did multiple things because multiple people reported me?
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I doubt you\'ll be banned. :)
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I do these things all the time. It\'s called Competetive hunting, and if they can\'t keep up with the competition, they should leave. I was \"reported\" yesterday by some Enkidukai, and I was never banned. It just tells you not to take crap from people who think they own the place.
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As long you do not exploit any game bugs to steal kills, nobody can claim that they \"own\" an NPC or the spot where they spawn. You will not make many friends if you start hunting in the same place without asking first, but that is another story and nobody gets banned for it.
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I just saw \"Link\" in a username, and \"ban\" in the subject of his post, and I just wondered... :D
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:P Izzy.
As others explained there is little wrong with what you did... having faster reactions or something is no crime. Just remember the point about exploiting game bugs, also its always nice to ask to join the group before you just kill the monster.
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Originally posted by LinkN64
I was walking in that forest area and I killed the rogue that usually has a crowd around it. Well I killed the rogue,and the entire crowd reported me....will I be banned? I did one thing,but what if people think that I did multiple things because multiple people reported me?
It sounds like the crowd should be banned, not you.
NO ONE can own a spawn.
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Originally posted by Suno_Regin
I do these things all the time. It\'s called Competetive hunting, and if they can\'t keep up with the competition, they should leave. I was \"reported\" yesterday by some Enkidukai, and I was never banned. It just tells you not to take crap from people who think they own the place.
Yeah, but you use the arrow glitch.
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Originally posted by Izzy*dot
I just saw \"Link\" in a username, and \"ban\" in the subject of his post, and I just wondered... :D
You too? Those were my thoughts exactly :P
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Originally posted by zanzibar
Originally posted by Suno_Regin
I do these things all the time. It\'s called Competetive hunting, and if they can\'t keep up with the competition, they should leave. I was \"reported\" yesterday by some Enkidukai, and I was never banned. It just tells you not to take crap from people who think they own the place.
Yeah, but you use the arrow glitch.
I don\'t use the arrow glitch you idiot. Competetive hunting and KSing are two completely different things.
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I\'d like to add onto what everyone else mentioned:
There\'s no owning any spawn by anyone, but I hope that if there was a crowd around a popular spawn point, you at least asked, or greeted, or did something to announce your presence before launching into an attack. If they would have denied you access to the spawn (verbally), the fault is completely theirs. But attempts at conversation first usually take care of misunderstandings and desires to \"report.\"
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Thank you,it\'s nice to know that I didn\'t do anything against the rules. I think I\'ll just stay away from that spawn entirely.
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Yeah well the point where that one rogue keeps spawning near the magic shop is camped most times I pass there, so I just usually leave it alone. Some people obviously have issues with others touching that spawn point when they\'ve just killed that poor rogue a couple of thousand times:D
Oh and
You too? Those were my thoughts exactly
*nods* :D
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By LinkN64
Will I be banned?
I was walking in that forest area and I killed the rogue that usually has a crowd around it. Well I killed the rogue,and the entire crowd reported me....will I be banned? I did one thing,but what if people think that I did multiple things because multiple people reported me?
You should be tied to nearest tree and a cigarette put in your mouth and lit, then blindfolded, and tickled till you cry .
Or put on a podium and hailed as a conquering hero.
Lets break it down shall we:
\"I was walking in that forest area\" OK so far.
\"and I killed the rogue\" Why?
\"that usually has a crowd around it.\" Was there?
\"Well I killed the rogue\" why?
\"and the entire crowd reported me\" So there was a crowd.
SO that leaves me wondering WHY Did you kill it?
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Originally posted by Karyuu
I\'d like to add onto what everyone else mentioned:
There\'s no owning any spawn by anyone, but I hope that if there was a crowd around a popular spawn point, you at least asked, or greeted, or did something to announce your presence before launching into an attack. If they would have denied you access to the spawn (verbally), the fault is completely theirs. But attempts at conversation first usually take care of misunderstandings and desires to \"report.\"
You would think that, but no.
me - \"Hi, can I share your spawn?\"
group - \"No.\"
me - \"We could take turns, or share the loot?\"
group - \"No.\"
me - \"Oh. Well, would you mind if I compete for the spawn with you?\"
group - \"We\'ll report you.\"
me - \"Oh. Well, that\'s nice.\"
[I then compete with the group, and win every so often. They send off multiple reports.]
GM - \"What\'s going on here?\"
group - \"He\'s kill stealing.\"
GM - \"Is this true?\"
me - \"No, I\'m just competing for the spawn without cheating.\"
yadda yadda yadda.
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I sometimes go to the arena and kill some of the easier mercenaries that spawn in the top side sections... only problem is that they ALWAYS have campers at them. I once came to the same spot 3 times in the time span of about 4 hours during the day and the same player was there the whole time! So, I lured the mercenary away from him on the next spawn.. and got cursed at. Stupid spawn campers.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
You would think that, but no.
There are new GM rules that define \"kill stealing\" better :) A player generally needs to ask first before taking something from a crowd, but if they refuse, he or she has every right to \"get in line\" regardless. As long as the player still gives others a chance, no amount of reports will cause a GM to take action.
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Originally posted by Karyuu
Originally posted by zanzibar
You would think that, but no.
There are new GM rules that define \"kill stealing\" better :) A player generally needs to ask first before taking something from a crowd, but if they refuse, he or she has every right to \"get in line\" regardless. As long as the player still gives others a chance, no amount of reports will cause a GM to take action.
Yeah, well there were rules before too.
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Originally posted by Karyuu
Originally posted by zanzibar
You would think that, but no.
There are new GM rules that define \"kill stealing\" better :) A player generally needs to ask first before taking something from a crowd, but if they refuse, he or she has every right to \"get in line\" regardless. As long as the player still gives others a chance, no amount of reports will cause a GM to take action.
The, ahem, \"Don\'t Ask, Don\'t Steal\" policy...
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Originally posted by r.guppy
By LinkN64
Will I be banned?
I was walking in that forest area and I killed the rogue that usually has a crowd around it. Well I killed the rogue,and the entire crowd reported me....will I be banned? I did one thing,but what if people think that I did multiple things because multiple people reported me?
You should be tied to nearest tree and a cigarette put in your mouth and lit, then blindfolded, and tickled till you cry .
Or put on a podium and hailed as a conquering hero.
Lets break it down shall we:
\"I was walking in that forest area\" OK so far.
\"and I killed the rogue\" Why?
\"that usually has a crowd around it.\" Was there?
\"Well I killed the rogue\" why?
\"and the entire crowd reported me\" So there was a crowd.
SO that leaves me wondering WHY Did you kill it?
It was likely to do with reasons such as PP and loot... the general reason people kill things. You cannot argue with that seeing as you kill quite alot yourself (unless you are french of course.).
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Originally posted by Drey
It was likely to do with reasons such as PP and loot... the general reason people kill things. You cannot argue with that seeing as you kill quite alot yourself (unless you are french of course.).
xD
I just got reminded of the French castle in \"The Holy Grail\".
\"I fart in your general direction!\"
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Originally posted by Mezasa
I just got reminded of the French castle in \"The Holy Grail\".
\"Cherchez la vache!\"
-\"What?\"
\"Cherchez la vache!!\"
-\"What?\"
\"SEEK THE COW!!\"
-\"Oh.\"
:D Used to crack me up everytime I saw that.
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I have the same image...
\"go away or I shall taunt you a second time!\"
err ya, well anyways, I agree with R.G on this one competitive killing does not seem to encourage roleplay to me. Groups should form up in town and travel outside to round up rouges like a mob of vigilanites IMHO.
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Okay, so I\'m a noob in PS and in actual rpg (my rpg turned out to be just adventure games). Talk about role play--I am a (life path) rogue--and I kill rogues, I can\'t rob or kill citizens, I can however sneak around on roofs and tops of walls (if I can jump onto them)--so where is the role play in that?
I haven\'t found any spawns so fantastic that people camp on them, and I haven\'t found any rules regarding a spawn point. Still, when I saw someone using one--I chatted, based upon what I saw. The character let me try to take her loot, it didn\'t work, I was told in screen note that I am not authorized to take loot. After a little more chat about that, I asked to kill one to see if I could even get loot. It worked.
Then I told her she could continue on the spawn point and I\'d go elsewhere. She let me have it (thank-you).
In this experience I saw that characters could stand off from the spawn point, and let the creatures wander.
What you all mean by \"compete\" I don\'t know, but the vision of a bunch of people scrambling for the spawn point is rather on the ridiculous side.
Are their \"spawn point\" rules? In the posted case, was the group fighting the rogue and this person killed it at the last minute while they were trying to regain?
Respect is key, even when they all say know, shouldn\'t one ask \"why?\"
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\"What\'s wrong with MMORPG\'s?...\"
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When Zanz or Suno says \"compete\" they mean attacking the creature first so they can loot. I believe the current game mechanics allow only the person who attacked the \"mob\" first to loot. It is very similar to the infamous \"nija looting\" and Kill stealing in other MMORPG\'s.
To Zanzibars credit, he has posted a technique for getting an edge in this kind of competition, and it seems to be in line with the current unwriten rules.
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Originally posted by derwoodly
To Zanzibars credit, he has posted a technique for getting an edge in this kind of competition, and it seems to be in line with the current unwriten rules.
I didn\'t see any techniques from him in this thread, and if you were referring to his arrow comment, you were quite wrong - using magic to snag a kill from another person (when they have initiated an attack) is indeed kill stealing.
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You could always add some actual NPC monsters into the game so that one spawn point is not coveted. Or a random spawn generator....kill it and it doesn\'t come back there. Then we can sit back and watch everyone run to the other side of the area to kill it. Spawn camping turns to spawn hunting turns to massive chaos, pandemonium. And the rest just sit back and laugh, laugh, laugh.
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Originally posted by Karyuu
Originally posted by derwoodly
To Zanzibars credit, he has posted a technique for getting an edge in this kind of competition, and it seems to be in line with the current unwriten rules.
I didn\'t see any techniques from him in this thread, and if you were referring to his arrow comment, you were quite wrong - using magic to snag a kill from another person (when they have initiated an attack) is indeed kill stealing.
Derwoodly is referring to the numerous other threads where I\'ve given instructions on how to attack NPCs using hotkeys and shortcuts.
I feel that even though these techniques aren\'t related to role-playing, they should be widely known so that everyone is on an equal playing field.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
Derwoodly is referring to the numerous other threads where I\'ve given instructions on how to attack NPCs using hotkeys and shortcuts.
Thanks, had a feeling I was misunderstanding it.
Lazaro: There have been many discussions in the past concerning spawns and how to make them interesting - search through the Wishlist sometime if you\'re in the mood to read :)
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Originally posted by Karyuu
Originally posted by zanzibar
You would think that, but no.
There are new GM rules that define \"kill stealing\" better :) A player generally needs to ask first before taking something from a crowd, but if they refuse, he or she has every right to \"get in line\" regardless. As long as the player still gives others a chance, no amount of reports will cause a GM to take action.
Yes, but if that player cannot attack the Rogue, because the crowd is using a shortcut to prevent him from killing it, then how would that work? Would GMs be called on the player, or the group?
Also, if the player uses the shortcut, and the group already said he wouldn\'t be allowed to attack it, and the player did not let the others hit it because he attacked it every spawn, would the GMs be called on the group, or the player?
These new rules still don\'t define anything. If the group doesn\'t share and the player just shortcut-kills it, or if the player doesn\'t share and the group just shortcut-kills it, who would the GMs go after?
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Less \"Who will the GMs go after\" and more \"What is the appropriate response\" ;)
Can someone describe to me what the shortcut you are all referring to is? I don\'t have enough keywoards to search myself, and it would help a lot in the discussion.
Originally posted by Suno_Regin
Yes, but if that player cannot attack the Rogue, because the crowd is using a shortcut to prevent him from killing it, then how would that work? Would GMs be called on the player, or the group?
I\'d really have to understand what the shortcut does in order to answer this one.
Also, if the player uses the shortcut, and the group already said he wouldn\'t be allowed to attack it, and the player did not let the others hit it because he attacked it every spawn, would the GMs be called on the group, or the player?
If the player takes the kill every time the mob spawns, the GM would have a talk with the player. Sharing is the key - so retaliating to a crowd\'s refusal by stealing everything entirely is a bad choice of action to take.
These new rules still don\'t define anything.
The GMs are hoping to make a few GM rules and policies public for players to know about, so hopefully in the near future you\'ll have a more or less \"solid\" document to go on.
If the group doesn\'t share and the player just shortcut-kills it, or if the player doesn\'t share and the group just shortcut-kills it, who would the GMs go after?
Again, sharing is the key. If a crowd refuses, the player has every right to \"get in line\" - but not to take the kill repeatedly without allowing others a chance. The best way to go about it is form some sense of order - who gets the spawn after who. If a GM is necessary, he or she can be called to create that order.
So let\'s summarize:
- If a group of people is around a spawn, a \"new\" player should walk up and ask for sharing rights.
- Should the crowd accept, there are no further problems - make sure to establish the order of who gets the kill after who.
- If the crowd refuses, the player should offer a reminder that no one owns a spawn and everyone has a right to it - then see what order the group is managing, and try to fit in, allowing everyone else a chance before taking the spawn again.
The GMs would have a talk with whoever is refusing to give everyone else a chance, be it a crowd or a single player.
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By shortcut, I mean a key setup with \"/target npc\" and \"/attack 1\" that way, just tapping the key will keep you from having to click-to-kill. Now, competetive hunting also comes into subject. If someone is roleplaying, and another person says \"share noob\" when someone is shortcut-killing, that isn\'t roleplay, that\'s powerleveling. My character is a ruthless killer, he won\'t just say \"Ok, have a Rogue, there\'s plenty more\" he would say \"These Rogues chose to attack me, so I will soak the dirt with their blood...do not interfere.\" The GMs would then come in and punish that player, but they were doing it for an IC reason. More spawns, like a Rogue hideout may be necessary to prevent camping from happening. That way, individuals or groups could hunt down Rogues one-at-a-time, and not have to wait and take turns on one spawn, which is completely OOC.
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This is why roleplaying when you are spawn camping is so awkward - there\'s just no realistic way to explain you sitting in one spot for (in-game) hours, killing the same thing over and over. You can try to decorate it up, but it still fails.
The rule is: you have to share. If you want to hunt alone, you will have to choose a spawn that does not attract others.
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Then there should be more spawns, like I said before. The Rogues in the arena are always camped, especially for their loots. The Rogues in the forests are camped for decent loots and better PP\'s than at the Arena. The same for the hidden Rogue spawn up in the hills. There are only 3 good spawns, and each one of them are camped. (The arena spawns are split into about 5 individual Rogues, each camped by 1-2 people) That\'s why, there should be more Rogues hiding in shady spots, the trees, the Arena\'s corners, etc. to keep this from happening. Just like the Trepor field in the hills, there are plenty of spawns there, why not with the Rogues?
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Pretty obvious a little random spawning and ofcourse more spawnings would solve this problem, but that doesn\'t seem to be happening.
As to the rules they are pretty sdimple atm. shortcutting is as far as I know not against the rules nor is hogging a spawn by using it.
Specially if you have roleplay motives like your a person who is in rage and don\'t listen or talk with people when you are fighting I hardly feel it\'s a GMs job to intergere in the squabeling.
Would be something else if the person keeps following you to other spawns or claims a whole valley perhaps but even then only in extreme cases do I feel the GM should interfere.
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Spawns are so far from complete (I hope), I feel its a tad premature to create a bill of rights concerning them.
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Originally posted by Suno_Regin
More spawns, like a Rogue hideout may be necessary to prevent camping from happening. That way, individuals or groups could hunt down Rogues one-at-a-time, and not have to wait and take turns on one spawn, which is completely OOC.
A rogue hideout, like a snake pit, or a fanatic fortress, maybe a bug hatchery. This sounds like a good idea to look into. Of course, there again would be the problem of campers near the place, but if their were so many spawning in the same area that it would be sure death--maybe that would work. I suppose it would also tax the server, and we\'d still need a newbie place that wouldn\'t kill and discourage them before they even know how to play--perhaps two birds could be killed, make a bunny slope for the newbs--the farther they get up the slope, the more it would take to stay there.
Still, where there are safeguards, there are people trying to get around them.
I might like role-playing IC, but not as a peasant kicked out of their home, and trying to live on rats. Better for me, if there were a way to \"power-level\" up to the point of decent citizen--then, if desire leads to being devastating, a much tougher way to get their. [Crime lords choose their path, because it is the only way afforded them to move up.]
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Originally posted by Suno_Regin
If someone is roleplaying, and another person says \"share noob\" when someone is shortcut-killing, that isn\'t roleplay, that\'s powerleveling. My character is a ruthless killer, he won\'t just say \"Ok, have a Rogue, there\'s plenty more\" he would say \"These Rogues chose to attack me, so I will soak the dirt with their blood...do not interfere.\" The GMs would then come in and punish that player, but they were doing it for an IC reason.
Hmm, so you\'re hunting for RolePlay reasons here... Good to see. But as stated previously \'sharing\' is the key and I\'m sure you can RolePlay the other player in to what you have going... After all you\'re meant to RP with others, not yourself, would get a bit boring.
Originally posted by Suno_Regin
That way, individuals or groups could hunt down Rogues one-at-a-time, and not have to wait and take turns on one spawn, which is completely OOC.
Camping one spawn - unless you\'re RPing as you stated above, is OOC period. Again \'stats&numbers\'. A monster won\'t drop dead after you\'ve killed it, then pop back up exactly where it did the time before. -You- not your char know it\'s instantly going to pop back up... Again OOC
Originally posted by Suno_Regin
Then there should be more spawns, like I said before. The Rogues in the arena are always camped, especially for their loots. The Rogues in the forests are camped for decent loots and better PP\'s than at the Arena. The same for the hidden Rogue spawn up in the hills. There are only 3 good spawns, and each one of them are camped.
And now I\'m completley stumped. oO
Surely if it\'s all RP your hunting, PPs and loot etc wouldn\'t matter (I think we know why - stats&numbers spring to mind again).
It sounds like you\'re interested in the better looting rogues/mobs and the Progression Points they give out... In which case you\'re sort of contradicting yourself. :P
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Actually, that\'s what PEOPLE kill them for, I didn\'t compare myself to that. I treat one spawn like they\'re different Rogues each time, I won\'t stand there killing the SAME Rogue, I would technically be hunted down by Rogues, and I would kill them before they kill me. Including other people in the RP wouldn\'t really be possible unless those people are RPing as well. If not, then I just say \"Xidus remains silent\" with /me. Then, after a few kills, I may say \"Xidus licks the blood off his blade\" but there would be nothing verbal there.
Now, if you read my post in one of the topics made in the PvP forum, outside areas like the forests should be PvP areas. That way, Xidus wouldn\'t just be killing Rogues, he would be killing everyone in the area. Of course, people would turn that into an OOC PK and burn, but it still isn\'t realistic for a ruthless killer to be bound to waiting 10 minutes to fight someone, especially since he doesn\'t talk to those he doesn\'t like.
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Originally posted by Suno_Regin
I won\'t stand there killing the SAME Rogue, I would technically be hunted down by Rogues, and I would kill them before they kill me.
So I expect to see your character run around a bit before every spawn, yes? ;) Because otherwise, you are standing there killing the same Rogue. Imagining your character running doesn\'t work when he\'s visually standing in one place over a long course of time.
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Have you done it...on weed?
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Originally posted by noXide
And now I\'m completley stumped. oO
Surely if it\'s all RP your hunting, PPs and loot etc wouldn\'t matter (I think we know why - stats&numbers spring to mind again).
It sounds like you\'re interested in the better looting rogues/mobs and the Progression Points they give out... In which case you\'re sort of contradicting yourself. :P
This is true. If someone is more concerned with RPing then they would probably hunt something easier to RP with. In Suno\'s case, hunting creatures that usually aren\'t camped would be a solution. Fanatics, Grendols, Gobbels, Tefusangs, and Ulbernauts would be easier for someone who wants to RP solo.
It seems like some people are afraid to say they fight in the arena to powerlevel.
The point of the arena is to provide fighters with a place to do what they do....fight, right? I consider it somewhat like going to the gym. My character is training to be a stronger fighter so he can kill larger beasts. Ya, it\'s powerleveling...but it\'s RPing because this is part of my character\'s routine. Eventually I\'ll probably create a character that will have other aspirations...but the current state of the game is more developed in the fighter area.
I always allow people to join me in training if they ask. I try to make conversation if they RP. I usually keep quiet if they don\'t. If all the spawns that would be useful for training are camped then I find something else to do. I don\'t see what everyone is making a fuss about.
Sure, spawns could be randomized or increased. Do they really need to right now? Not really. Find something else to do if everything\'s camped. Go RP. Go travel around and meet people.
The thing to keep in mind is that once different aspects of the game are developed, less people will be playing the \"fighter\" type character. A smaller percentage of the population will be fighting in the arena and spawns will be less competitively camped (well, hopefully).
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I have found as most others have said that if you ask to share that the bieing is willing to do so. I always do and when others ask i also am willing to share or group;).
:P
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Originally posted by goland
Originally posted by noXide
And now I\'m completley stumped. oO
Surely if it\'s all RP your hunting, PPs and loot etc wouldn\'t matter (I think we know why - stats&numbers spring to mind again).
It sounds like you\'re interested in the better looting rogues/mobs and the Progression Points they give out... In which case you\'re sort of contradicting yourself. :P
This is true. If someone is more concerned with RPing then they would probably hunt something easier to RP with. In Suno\'s case, hunting creatures that usually aren\'t camped would be a solution. Fanatics, Grendols, Gobbels, Tefusangs, and Ulbernauts would be easier for someone who wants to RP solo.
It seems like some people are afraid to say they fight in the arena to powerlevel.
The point of the arena is to provide fighters with a place to do what they do....fight, right? I consider it somewhat like going to the gym. My character is training to be a stronger fighter so he can kill larger beasts. Ya, it\'s powerleveling...but it\'s RPing because this is part of my character\'s routine. Eventually I\'ll probably create a character that will have other aspirations...but the current state of the game is more developed in the fighter area.
I always allow people to join me in training if they ask. I try to make conversation if they RP. I usually keep quiet if they don\'t. If all the spawns that would be useful for training are camped then I find something else to do. I don\'t see what everyone is making a fuss about.
Sure, spawns could be randomized or increased. Do they really need to right now? Not really. Find something else to do if everything\'s camped. Go RP. Go travel around and meet people.
The thing to keep in mind is that once different aspects of the game are developed, less people will be playing the \"fighter\" type character. A smaller percentage of the population will be fighting in the arena and spawns will be less competitively camped (well, hopefully).
My character likes challenges, as well as the screams of those he kills right before their death. Monsters like the Tefusang don\'t scream, nor do they present a challenge.
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Suno, you want to have fun, but so does everyone else. This isn\'t a single-player game. If you\'ll have to adapt your character to allow the sharing of spawns, you\'ll have to do it. We\'re all trying to work together here - and again, no one owns anything. Unfortunately before more spawns are added, this is the rule.
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Originally posted by Drey
...you kill quite alot yourself (unless you are french of course.).
Drey, that was so funny I dropped a full can of soda on my lap.
More on-topically:
Wouldn\'t a good way to prevent crowding be to make more spawn points? I can\'t even kill rats in the sewers anymore... and I\'m too pathetic and wimpy to kill anything else, as well as that I can\'t do it for IC reasons (Crimsonn\'s a coward.).