PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: a19183 on February 05, 2006, 10:32:16 pm
-
Hello all,
a special greeting to the DEV\'s
I know this is Beta and in Development.
BUT:
Could you please make an open anouncement if you change
SL-Scores or wipe weapons?
I have been killed twice by a mercenary that i usualy killed easy.
This is very anoying.
I like the game and the kind of communications in the game with other players.
There are other games that are technicaly much more developed,
including crafting, and very much more.
As an example try Eternal-Lands.
With that kind of information politics i don\'t think that you will attract players.
I think i will stay with PS for some time more,
but another such an expirience will make me turn my back on it.
OH, and keep an eye on EL-Homepage.
They have an own segment News and fill it with what belongs into it. :-o
Edit:
Maybe it would could to use the login-screen for information,
i saw your info at the PS-Homepage.
Edit end
Greetings
-
actually one word
pre-alpha
not beta.
and
tester first. player second.
-
Yeah, I would be nice if even a single posting were put up with a heading like \"sorry, you\'re going to be losing all your weapons today\". But no, instead we get \"it\'s pre-alpha\", \"you knew weapons wipes were coming\", \"check your attitude\", etc,etc...
I love the game, I love the people playing, I love the devs for the great effort put into this game... but a little common courtesy of at least posting simple warning messages would be nice. The other guy who complained about this is another thread just got shot down and had the thread closed. Why? In my opinion it\'s just plain rudeness.
-
This didn\'t belong in Server Announcements section ;)
I too agree that warnings are generally nice, maybe a day in advance at most, but I also don\'t think that this is an issue large enough to warrant such reactions. A weapon wipe is something everyone knew was going to happen.
-
Ylikone,
You are a nice guy. I have met you in game (with my another character). Please do understand, it is said on the main web page, this game is a pre-alpha technical demo. Things like this have happened in the past, happen now, and will happen in the future.
Do not pay too much attention what your character has, but more what your character is about. Many of us know your character and we appreciate what you are doing in the game, regardless how much tria your character has or what weapons he got.
Cheers,
-Bereror
-
Originally posted by Karyuu
This didn\'t belong in Server Announcements section ;)
I too agree that warnings are generally nice, maybe a day in advance at most, but I also don\'t think that this is an issue large enough to warrant such reactions. A weapon wipe is something everyone knew was going to happen.
I didn\'t know a weapon wipe was going to happen. Granted, I\'ve only been here since the beginning of December, but I feel I\'ve gotten to know a lot of what\'s going on in the game. I\'ve been waiting for a complete wipe (which never seems to come)... and instead we get unannounced mini wipes seemingly for the purposes of torture. I mean, weapons over 10 slash have existed since I started in Dec. Why let them go on for a length of time, let the players build themselves and their arsenal, then suddenly cut them down.
I think people are waiting for the big wipe. Lots of little wipes during the wait process is cruel in my opinion.
-
But necessary.
-
Originally posted by Bereror
Do not pay too much attention what your character has, but more what your character is about. Many of us know your character and we appreciate what you are doing in the game, regardless how much tria your character has or what weapons he got.
This is the ironic part... I don\'t level. I don\'t kill monsters. (maybe a bit with my alt character) So, I shouldn\'t even be complaining. I am purposefully trying to make my character likable, as that is something I can retain when the wipe comes.
I am just imagining this from the point of view of somebody playing daily to level up and get the next best weapons... it must terribly frustrating.
Maybe I should just shut-up now. :)
-
So that\'s where my weapons went :( they were a \"welcome\" present from someone I met on my third day and I was pretty upset that I had \"lost\" them somehow .... I feel much better now :]
Except I haven\'t got anything to fight with now, but I\'ll live, not for long, but DR is a nice place.
Just out of Interest, were all weapons over slash 10 wiped ?
:rolleyes: edit - double word deleted.
-
Why announce somethink what is obvious?
This is roleplaying game.
RP games have realistic world to support the rp as much as possible.
The deleted weapons weren\'t realistic and consistent part of the world.
Result: elimination of the weapon element. Simple as that
You probably was playing too many pseudo-MMORPGS which aren\'t really about rp and you could learn from nowhere what exactly rp is about.
Am I right? :)
If you would be warned, you would sell all your weapons to NPC merchant to gain money and some would start begging/complaining/threatening they leave game^^. I gues it\'s all deal about the money, which you gained so easy and can earn it again, what make me wonder why you still care about it :s
-
Originally posted by Ekusile Feyorel
Just out of Interest, were all weapons over slash 10 wiped ?
So it\'s been reported, and so it appears, yes :)
-
OK Karyuu thankyou (nice pic btw ... oops sorry ... wrong thread).
I agree with Niko, announcements just result in mass selling and scamming of characters not aware.
a19183 - I played the game you are referring to for quite a while, and you have to agree with Niko, the server announcement forum was full of \" ... if you do this I\'ll leave\" type threads.
The only thing I would like to see is maybe an announcement on the forums after the change/wipe has been made, so everyone is aware of what happened and why. But the way I see it, the Devs have more important issues to work on, and losing items/stats in the name of progress won\'t keep me awake at night.
Note for Devs and Mods - keep up the good work, you won\'t please all of the people all of the time.
-
pre-alpha?? Anyone actually know what that means? Thats the game before the first version and wait we are already playing CB for over a year now.
*shakes his head*
Edit: Even if the game isn\'t done yet the community is already four years old. You can hardly say those people are just testers after such a long time of contribution.
-
Early alpha seems to make more sense now.
-
Pre alpha in my eyes is all the work you do before putting it all togehter and before you as \"player\"would be able to do anything normally.
Now I have walked around in MB and I don\'t know what it was like in the beginning but being able to walk around like that it\'s already an alpha.
Ofcourse CB isn\'t nearly close to a beta atm so it\'s simply alpha 2, but it\'s definately way past the \"we\'re not sure if it\'s an alpha now\" with being able to do things such as interact with NPCs and fighting
PPS: could the tittle be changed? :P
-
Originally posted by Karyuu
Originally posted by Ekusile Feyorel
Just out of Interest, were all weapons over slash 10 wiped ?
So it\'s been reported, and so it appears, yes :)
Quick question, Am I to assume that we won\'t be seeing the return of weapons greater than /10, or will they return, yet far more rare? Either way, I have some....research to edit to reflect the latest changes.
Edited to add since no one else posted and to make Karyuu happy :) : Did some combat testing today. Results are as follows. Mentle stamina will need a tweaking. On full defensive, after 30% left, it quits combat. Defensive: around 25%, normal= 20%, agressive is 10%. Thats all good, but when attacking on bloody, I was able to keep attacking well after I hit 0%. It was a bit hard to test with my experieced character so I used a freshly made alt and he was able to attack and attack well after hitting 0% without ever getting the kick out of combat and getting the message \"you\'re too tired\". And his will is I believe close to 50, so it\'s not like that stat should have come into effect here.
-
Hm,
looking at the many replys to the thread i started it seems to me that this topic is interesting much people.
Some things i would like to say to make my point more understandable:
1. Wipes are OK.
2. Wipes do not to have be anounced
3. There should be a message in the login that there was a wipe or something critical changed.
4. I do not want to first check all new threads in the forum when i did not play for 5 days because the server was volatile. (Blame me for that if you want to)
5. I like the game very much, as i said, the chat system is very good. In comparison to other games where the have channels and you hear everyone in the game. Not very realistic.
6. I never wrote something like \"do this or that and i will leave...\"
7. What made me upset was the fact that i lost 1 hour in walking from DR to Hydlaa twice to get back to what i was up to.
I understand that i am a tester,
BUT am i then not something like a tool?
And is it good for the devs to waste the tools time in walking than to invest it into playing?????
Greets
Markus
-
I have no idea how walking from the DR is \"wasting a tool\'s time\". Did you mean that you died due to your sudden lack of weapons, which could have somehow been prevented with a server MOTD? That makes no sense whatsoever.
-
Dear Karyuu,
First: yes i think it was a waste of my (the tool) time to walk back.
Second: I did not lack of weapons, i still have two broad-swoards. (Now with a low slash)
Third: When i was kicked because of a server crash i was fighting a mercenary to train my sword level up to the unbelievable height of 8.
So when i was able to get back into the game some days later i started to train again.
Hopefully you don\'t mind that i did so ;-)
But the fight calculations where changed.
So before i could realize what was going on i was killed.
Four:
A server MOTD message at the login could have prevented it,
because maybe i can not write very good in english but i can read it pretty well ;-)
Greets
Markus
-
What was it a waste of time from? A tool is one that is used to help development. You training doesn\'t quite help anything, unless you encounter bugs and report them ;) Every player has use, but don\'t flatter yourself too much. Assuming that you don\'t spawn in Akkaio, if it still takes you an hour to get out from the DR and back to any place in Hydlaa, you should spend more time exploring it until it takes you mere minutes.
But how detailed of a MOTD would have helped you? \"Fighting has been recalculated\" wouldn\'t be informative enough to prevent death, would it?
-
I don\'t believe the fight calculations were changed so drastically as for you to attack something and die before you even noticed that you were loosing the battle.
I get the feeling you attacked something and looked away from your screen, assuming you were going to kill it.
-
Originally posted by Karyuu
What was it a waste of time from? A tool is one that is used to help development. You training doesn\'t quite help anything, unless you encounter bugs and report them ;) Every player has use, but don\'t flatter yourself too much. Assuming that you don\'t spawn in Akkaio, if it still takes you an hour to get out from the DR and back to any place in Hydlaa, you should spend more time exploring it until it takes you mere minutes.
But how detailed of a MOTD would have helped you? \"Fighting has been recalculated\" wouldn\'t be informative enough to prevent death, would it?
You\'re being a tad obtuse. You know that if he had known something was changed he might have approached it with more caution or tested on something easier first. Or at least had an explanation when something went bad.
More importantly, I believe cutting the DEVs slack for each transgression because they volunteer and work hard is getting old. 30 more seconds of voluntary work to say something on MOTD or laanx announcments would not have hurt them.
All this is, is one more chunk of evidence that they don\'t care about the players at all..that the players are completely expendable and matter not.
Defend and sugarcoat all you want, but the fact remains that if they cared about the players at all they would give notice and announcments of game changes and development on a routine basis.
-
Originally posted by Lazaro
..that the players are completely expendable and matter not.
Which has proven to be quite true at this point.
-
You\'re being a tad obtuse. You know that if he had known something was changed he might have approached it with more caution or tested on something easier first. Or at least had an explanation when something went bad.
More importantly, I believe cutting the DEVs slack for each transgression because they volunteer and work hard is getting old. 30 more seconds of voluntary work to say something on MOTD or laanx announcments would not have hurt them.
All this is, is one more chunk of evidence that they don\'t care about the players at all..that the players are completely expendable and matter not.
Defend and sugarcoat all you want, but the fact remains that if they cared about the players at all they would give notice and announcments of game changes and development on a routine basis.
Not sure how to respond to this. We\'ve all spent countless hours trying to meet the request of the players. There have been times people have stayed up all night to fix some serious issue. To turn around and say that we don\'t care does the entire team a disservice.
Often times we are more concerned about getting things to work right. Not sure about you but when I get into a \'mode\' of working breaking out of that to write \"We are working on it\" is often very difficult thing to do.
-
Maybe the devs just need to develop... and somebody who is in close contact with the devs (ie/ knowing when important changes in the game will happen or HAVE happened) should be keeping the forums updated. I don\'t think Karyuu has this role, as she seems more the moderator of postings... not really a news and updates provider.
Also, saying that the devs don\'t care about the players is a bit harsh. I do believe they are concentrating on coding, not telling the players every little detail happening... which might be the thing giving the impression that they just don\'t care (as we can see, some people are getting that impression). Hence, my idea about an in-between person to communicate info from dev deeds.
-
The information you want is quite available, you just have to look and ask, not demand.
/me points at sig
Feel free to pop onto IRC and ask about anything in the CVS history. About the only time people ask anything about it is release time. I\'ve offered many times to answer questions, but most people don\'t want to, it seems.
-
Originally posted by ylikone
Maybe the devs just need to develop... and somebody who is in close contact with the devs (ie/ knowing when important changes in the game will happen or HAVE happened) should be keeping the forums updated. I don\'t think Karyuu has this role, as she seems more the moderator of postings... not really a news and updates provider.
Also, saying that the devs don\'t care about the players is a bit harsh. I do believe they are concentrating on coding, not telling the players every little detail happening... which might be the thing giving the impression that they just don\'t care (as we can see, some people are getting that impression). Hence, my idea about an in-between person to communicate info from dev deeds.
I think you stumbled onto a great idea
1. It give us info
2. It makes it so the devs don\'t have to tell one person then go on to repeat it again later :|
And DaveG you know me :D when would or could I ever understand source code XD *laughs and giggles* someone who could make it understandable for us would be really great ^^
-
Originally posted by Dylia
And DaveG you know me :D when would or could I ever understand source code XD *laughs and giggles* someone who could make it understandable for us would be really great ^^
I actually don\'t think he means you need to understand the code, but just look at the comments or release notes. But again, the average person coming to the forums is not going to do this. They expect there to be notices on the forums about things that will personally affect their gameplay.
Also, I can volunteer to put up some notices once in a while if I notice them... I can check the latest source and comments and see what\'s up... but I don\'t think it would work if only I did it, we would need at least a few people volunteering to do this.
-
Wipes should be announced. Otherwise you wouldn\'t know if you lost your items or skills as a result of wipe or a bug or account-jacking.
-
In a way, it\'s flattering people think of this as a released game.
-
Originally posted by BlackAcre
In a way, it\'s flattering people think of this as a released game.
Well, it\'s certainly not hidden away from the masses. I have it on my Linux box and play it almost everyday. So do many hundreds of other people. And thousands have at least made accounts, even though they may not play.
If it look like a duck and quacks like a duck...
-
Originally posted by ylikone
If it look like a duck and quacks like a duck...
That expression is only valid if looking like a duck and quacking like a duck are the only properties of a duck. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck and has horns... nope, not a duck. ;)
People expect bugs in modern games, as no one really bugtests commercial games anymore. But, PS doesn\'t yet have the content needed to be considered a \"released game\". However, if you consider the current version to be very good, I guess you\'ll love the \"released\". :D
-
uhm if it has horns it hardly looks like a duck Dave ;)
-
Originally posted by Pestilence
uhm if it has horns it hardly looks like a duck Dave ;)
Urr.. that\'s what he said....
-
Ok... let\'s use a property that\'s not a child of \"looks\", say \"breathes fire\". Now, it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, but it sure as hell ain\'t a duck. Happy? ;)
-
I for one am very happy with the development team on this game. Sure I\'d like notification of every niggling little change ( Sorry if I\'m trivializing the impact of the weapon wipe on people who actually had >10slash weapons ), but I\'ve worked on software projects where _paying_ clients weren\'t kept up to date on changes. I know for most developers it\'s harder to communicate changes than it is to fix bugs ( which is also hard, especially in deployed software ). I think given the resources the development team has that they are doing an excellent job just keeping the change log up to date.
-
Originally posted by Lazaro
You\'re being a tad obtuse. You know that if he had known something was changed he might have approached it with more caution or tested on something easier first. Or at least had an explanation when something went bad.
He did have an explanation - he simply had to go to the forums for it.
There are absolutely no guarantees, anywhere, that the NPCs you fight today will remain the same tomorrow. There are no guarantees that they won\'t be replaced with weaker or stronger versions, that they won\'t change in what they drop, how they attack, etc. Everything should be approached with caution - in a way, because one presumes that your character would do so as well.
I would rather the forums be filled with \"WHAT HAPPENED?!!\" threads when something is tweaked, than have the server MOTD be changed constantly to add notes of every little adjustment.
Originally posted by Hermeneus
Wipes should be announced. Otherwise you wouldn\'t know if you lost your items or skills as a result of wipe or a bug or account-jacking.
Wipes will be announced after the fact.
-
Hello everyone,
from reading this thread and the replys from various persons
i learned the following:
- If you want to start playing and don\'t want to be suprised
by missing weapons changed stats and so on you have to
check all the forum first.
- If something happens that you don\'t like and you find
out that it was caused by something that the devs did
take a bite into your desk but don\'t complain.
It won\'t help anyway
- Server motd, or what they are called, can be ignored.
They aren\'t of much help anyway.
- one of the best solutions is to contact a player ingame and
ask whether he knows about any changes since the last time
you were playing.
One more thing about the changed fighting calcs,
it seems to me that all fights are rather quick nowadays.
I still hit most oponents hard but they also can kill me
pretty quick. Don\'t know why, and to be honest, i don\'t
care about. I will get around with that kind of fight also.
There is no way to understand the fight calcs anyway.
And not because of lack of intelligence but to the mere
fact that only devs know how they are calculated.
And i don\'t want to spend time with the experiment
of trying to find out by changing weapons or stats or armor.
Greets
Markus
-
Hmm, I\'ve been wondering about the \"pre-alpha/alpha\" label of PS myself lately. There are various places where PlaneShift is mentioned, with the comments of their own (for example, mmorpg.com). And most of the comments seem to be of the following nature:
\"Very ambitious and interesting concept. But they have been saying \'soon\' for years now and it\'s still not even in beta\"
People keep asking for a lot of graphical updates, especially unique player models for each race, and so on.
However, if you look at the \"HELP US\" page on the main site, you\'ll see the following:
Project Director: Luca Pancallo
2D Graphics Leader: Temporary assigned to Luca Pancallo
2D Members: [none]
2D WTB Members: Inca [still active, I think]
Moogie [gone for good]
Nanaki [active or not?]
3D Graphics Leader: Temporary assigned to Luca Pancallo
3D Members: [none]
3D WTB Members: Cherppow [still active, I think]
Background/Setting Leader: Darkmoon [active or not?]
Rules Leader: Temporary assigned to Luca Pancallo
WTB Member: Xordan [active, I think]
Engine Leader Client and Engine Leader Server seem to be doing good, with a good number of people working with each.
Music/Sounds Leader seems ok for now but with only a temporary leader.
Public Relation/Recruit Manager: Temporary assigned to Luca Pancallo
That\'s a large number of \"temporary assigned\". Can you see a single guy taking care of all those responsibilities that Luca has in a decent amount of time? Even if PS was his full-time job, I don\'t see how he could accomplish anything in a timely manner.
What\'s really surprising is why aren\'t more contributors interested in 2D and 3D positions on this project? Is it not being presented in the right way? Are people not interested? Not enough time for an ambitious project?
Luca has stated that people join the project because they often want to improve their portfolio or practice new skills. But a lot of the positions have been empty for a long time now, and barely even have any contributors.
It\'s not surprising at all that the updates are slow, and mostly have to do with the engine itself, where it seems to be in fairly good hands with the amount of people working on it.
Want new player and monster models soon? Unlikely.
Want better forest and new areas? Unlikely.
Not while Luca has to do it all alone.
I\'ve stopped hoping for new developments long ago, and am secretly trying to work on a certain contribution, which I will only suggest directly to Luca once it\'s completed, and not before then. However, I wish more people would apply for WTB Member or Contributor position. A lot of people playing seem to have talents for graphics art.
For example, what about Gentar? He seems to be interested in the art potion of the game. I wish he would join the team. What about Karyuu? She seems to like drawing and art as well. Why not join the 2D team? New textures for models and environment are always nice...
I don\'t know why this project is not attracting new members anymore. It has been out for years already. I wish they would drop the silly rule of fan contributions not being accepted if they\'ve already been posted on a forum.
Any thoughts on this? :)
-
Originally posted by Bnm85
WTB Member: Xordan [active, I think]
What do you mean \"I think\".... X(
That page isn\'t kept totally up to date anyway, so there\'s people who\'re WTB but aren\'t on there. We also have prospects and such who do contribute but who aren\'t in the team yet, and so won\'t be on that page. As for department leaders.. Luca is temp leader for quite a few because we don\'t have anyone who\'s been around long enough to fulfill that role in those deps.... and being department leader is mainly organizing what\'s going to get done by the members. Luca doesn\'t make any of the models or areas all by himself. Delegation is a great thing. As for contributing... a lot of people apply, but either disappear for long periods, aren\'t up to doing the work, or just don\'t qualify.
-
Originally posted by Xordan
Originally posted by Bnm85
WTB Member: Xordan [active, I think]
What do you mean \"I think\".... X(
LoL! Well, I haven\'t been around when Moogie left, so I didn\'t want to state something as a fact until I was absolutely sure. :P
Good to know that more people are active and contribute than those listed on the site. Would be nice to see an update or a list of active contributors for a bit of inspiration. ;)
-
Originally posted by Bnm85
However, if you look at the \"HELP US\" page on the main site, you\'ll see the following:
Project Director: Luca Pancallo
2D Graphics Leader: Temporary assigned to Luca Pancallo
2D WTB Members: Inca [still active, I think]
Moogie [gone for good]
Nanaki [active or not?]
Inca is new, Moogie is gone, and Nanaki is inactive, yes.
Originally posted by Bnm85
3D Graphics Leader: Temporary assigned to Luca Pancallo
3D WTB Members: Cherppow [still active, I think]
Cherppow is very much active. ;)
Originally posted by Bnm85
Background/Setting Leader: Darkmoon [active or not?]
WTB Member: Xordan [active, I think]
Darkmoon has been back recently, and Xordan is most certainly active.
Originally posted by Bnm85
Engine Leader Client and Engine Leader Server seem to be doing good, with a good number of people working with each.
We don\'t really have 2 seperate teams; it\'s just listed that way still. Yes, this is where most of our progression is.
Originally posted by Bnm85
Music/Sounds Leader seems ok for now but with only a temporary leader.
Sound has progressed slowly in the past, but it should go faster now that we\'re switching to the new CS sound renderer. Hopefully the first trouble-shooting technique won\'t be \"turn off sound\" anymore. :P
Originally posted by Bnm85
That\'s a large number of \"temporary assigned\". Can you see a single guy taking care of all those responsibilities that Luca has in a decent amount of time? Even if PS was his full-time job, I don\'t see how he could accomplish anything in a timely manner.
No dissagreement here.
Originally posted by Bnm85
What\'s really surprising is why aren\'t more contributors interested in 2D and 3D positions on this project? Is it not being presented in the right way? Are people not interested? Not enough time for an ambitious project?
Luca has stated that people join the project because they often want to improve their portfolio or practice new skills. But a lot of the positions have been empty for a long time now, and barely even have any contributors.
It\'s not surprising at all that the updates are slow, and mostly have to do with the engine itself, where it seems to be in fairly good hands with the amount of people working on it.
Well, when most work is on the engine, there\'s not as much the art departments can do, yet. There are new models and maps in the works, but yes, the pace is a bit slow. No one can deny that. I don\'t think that\'s a problem right now, and we should focus on getting the engine capable of handling everything it needs to, before worrying about what we put into it.
Originally posted by Bnm85
I\'ve stopped hoping for new developments long ago ...
Hopefully we can get this damn release out soon.
Originally posted by Bnm85
... and am secretly trying to work on a certain contribution, which I will only suggest directly to Luca once it\'s completed, and not before then. However, I wish more people would apply for WTB Member or Contributor position. A lot of people playing seem to have talents for graphics art.
Great! :) Yes, many people don\'t think they can apply, I think. If people want to contribute, they should apply.
Originally posted by Bnm85
For example, what about Gentar? He seems to be interested in the art potion of the game. I wish he would join the team. What about Karyuu? She seems to like drawing and art as well. Why not join the 2D team? New textures for models and environment are always nice...
I am not at liberty to discuss new applicants... ;)
Originally posted by Bnm85
I don\'t know why this project is not attracting new members anymore. It has been out for years already. I wish they would drop the silly rule of fan contributions not being accepted if they\'ve already been posted on a forum.
One main problem is the inability to sort through it all. We need some organized way to go through submissions, but as you\'ve already pointed out... who would do that? And, they would have to sign the art over to PS, which is one reason why they should become team members to do so. (become paranoid for a second; we don\'t want takesy-backsies...) At this point, the best method is to just require an aplication, instead of using the fan art forum. People should just know that they are free to apply, and they will be considered.
-
Thanks for that reply, DaveG.
That is definitely encouraging, and I hope it encourages other readers with similar concerns/questions as well.
I hope more people will apply to join a team, so their work makes it into the game. Besides, if they ever feel like being on a team is not for them, they can always leave and become a regular player instead.
Looking forward to the new release *rubs hands with anticipation* ;)