PlaneShift
Fan Area => The Hydlaa Plaza => Topic started by: nightstalian on February 23, 2006, 02:16:19 am
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Have you ever been in it?
What is it?
-The best friend syndrome is where you meet a pretty young girl who you love, and would do any thing for.
But she thinks of you as an older brother and her \"besttest Friend\" and every day you don\'t tell her you feel that you die a little each day you don\'t tell her.
Requirments
-1. Mostly you are a Geek/Nerd
-2. You have some sort of problem
-3.you love her deeply
-4.she thinks you as a brother and her best friend
-5. your afraid to tell her because you fear about your friendship
So why bring this up?
My Deliemna-
I told her and I don\'t know what will happen.
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Some feelings are inconvenient. The only solution is to push them into a dark place at the bottom of your stomach. Then you push them down further, and then bury them with vodka.
Or not.
If your feelings for her are genuine, then telling her how you feel might be the best thing, no matter how it turns out. Maybe the relationship will be weird for a while. If she says no, then you have to respect that. And if you care about her, then you will. Real friendships should survive things like that, and even if it doesn\'t.... the friendships we have when we\'re young aren\'t the same ones we\'ll have when we\'re older. Even if the friendship is completley ruined, maybe you\'ll pick things up again ten years from now.
And hey, maybe she\'ll give you a shot.
Oh, and *spy cough* obligatory emo reference *spy cough*.
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thanks
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I know of what you speak.
It takes enormous courage to tell someone that you care for them, but I\'ve found that being honest is best in the long run. It helps with the agony of the internal hypotheses of \"if... then... well.... maybe... but....\"
Good luck.
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Yup, I went through that when I was younger too. Didn\'t work though, she had a boyfriend. If it helps in any way, she\'s one of my best friends atm. Every case is unique though, so who knows, it could work for you, but what I\'m trying to say is, don\'t loose it if it doesn\'t, try to keep things calm, and the friendship alive. Also, think of this, what if you two end up together and then in a couple of years break up, when it could happen that you keep your friendship now, and later on you end up together. I think it was John Lennon who said \"Life is what happens to you while youre busy making other plans\" or something like that, so whatever happens will hapen.
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yea i know how that feals.
It really ticks me off too lol.
but, i have a best friend from that and i love her as a friend,and i dont have a crush on her anymore (that would be weird).
anyways good luck.
Edited for language.
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Originally posted by nightstalian
Have you ever been in it?
What is it?
-The best friend syndrome is where you meet a pretty young girl who you love, and would do any thing for.
But she thinks of you as an older brother and her \"besttest Friend\" and every day you don\'t tell her you feel that you die a little each day you don\'t tell her.
Requirments
-1. Mostly you are a Geek/Nerd
-2. You have some sort of problem
-3.you love her deeply
-4.she thinks you as a brother and her best friend
-5. your afraid to tell her because you fear about your friendship
So why bring this up?
My Deliemna-
I told her and I don\'t know what will happen.
so simply described, yet the feeling is so complicated, isn\'t it?
I do hope it works for you, as it did me, I had luck I beleive, I pass it on to you
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Originally posted by nightstalian
Have you ever been in it?
What is it?
-The best friend syndrome is where you meet a pretty young girl who you love, and would do any thing for.
But she thinks of you as an older brother and her \"besttest Friend\" and every day you don\'t tell her you feel that you die a little each day you don\'t tell her.
Requirments
-1. Mostly you are a Geek/Nerd
-2. You have some sort of problem
-3.you love her deeply
-4.she thinks you as a brother and her best friend
-5. your afraid to tell her because you fear about your friendship
So why bring this up?
My Deliemna-
I told her and I don\'t know what will happen.
That\'s what happens to me. I have numbers three, four and five, mainly because if I tell her, she\'ll laugh, I\'ll be embarrassed, everyone will know, and not only risk losing her friendship, but many others as well, viewed as some kind of idiot. So, I just enjoy what I get. :P
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I was in the same situation many moons ago (lost waaaay back in the depths of time). After a month of biting my lip every time I almost asked, I asked, and it lasted two years. Every since then I\'ve decided to just go for it, and see what happens.
?Once more into the breach, dear friends, once more;
Or close the wall up with our English dead!
In peace there?s nothing so becomes a man
As modest stillness and humility:
But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
Then imitate the action of the tiger;
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favour?d rage;
Then lend the eye a terrible aspect.?
I love shakespeare!
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nightstalian I was afflicted with every single one of those requirements. She told me more than once I was a brother to her. Regardless, the point of the matter is. I confessed how I felt about her, she didn\'t feel that way. Almost five years down the line, she still doesn\'t feel that way about me, and I\'ve given up on it, although we are good friends.
The point is, I\'ve seen it happen to other people as well. And usually best friend syndrome doesn\'t go away, and when it does it\'s for a fleeting moment when he/she is depressed about something and need someone.
It\'s a good thing you went for it, because you\'ll never know how she feels otherwise. But a no will probably stay a no forever, and you\'ll have to move on.
Good luck.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
Some feelings are inconvenient. The only solution is to push them into a dark place at the bottom of your stomach. Then you push them down further, and then bury them with vodka.
Good to have a back-up plan, if the tell her the truth does not work.
Personal preference would be Scotch (Johny Walker) instead of Vodka.
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Scotch, whiskey, tequilla, brandy, cognac, and a variety of other things burn my stomach. I can\'t drink them. Vodka and stouts I\'m fine with however. Red wine too, but it feels tacky to get drunk from it, and the hangover is nasty.
That\'s the thing with Shakespeare and other classics; they\'re universal. These are things that happen time and time again to different people in different walks of life across history. You\'re not alone in this.
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I have been fortunate enough to have this happen to me both ways and will always be grateful for the courage that made both of us speak out.
The then youg lady who confessed her feelings for me has gone on to be one of my oldest and dearest friends for over 20 years.
I would like to think that the reverse situation will last as long but there is always that lingering hope :) that she\'ll change her mind.
As for climbing into the vodka bottle I\'ve always looked on that as the last refuge for the weak :/
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A lot of J?germeister does the job to.
I know very well about what you talk.
\"Look at him, isnt he sooo cute, ..., oh come, hook me off with him.\"
Well not that extreme, but nearly. Anyways, I am falling through #3 of your rules.
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Originally posted by lanser
As for climbing into the vodka bottle I\'ve always looked on that as the last refuge for the weak :/
Weak is one word for it. I try to be less judgemental. \"Disempowered\" perhaps.
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If you like someone, tell them. And if they push you away, FOR GOD SAKES DON\'T START STALKING THEM. Let it go, there are others out there.
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You fear feeling humiliated and rejected. You don\'t know if you should tell, or suffer alone. You fear being alone, by either not telling and being alone, or telling, and ending alone. You fear that maybe your feelings are tricking you, and it is just your emotions desperately searching for a connection. You fear being right. You fear being wrong.
In the end, humiliation is temporary, but alone can be forever.
You just have to choose what you are more afraid of.
How to proceed after that?
....
....
I\'ll get back to you on that. No or yes is easy to deal with. It is the \'maybe\' that isn\'t.
Requirements filled here:
-1. I am a writer. That classifies me as odd. (she is also)
-2. Everyone has problems.
-3. A given
-4. Thinks of me as...someone safe to be with. A confidant. A keeper of secrets. A best friend. But, has wondered also...and knows it -would- work...if not for her having the same exact problem with someone -she- cares about very much (but is trying not to). *reminds himself to hire assassins* :P
-5. Terrifying, isn\'t it?
Our solution:
Be just as close as before, and see what happens. And spend half the summer taking part in a Ren Faire together. :)
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This happened to me as well, but I can even one up that... She told me that she wanted to get back with her old boyfriend, which isn\'t so bad. The kicker is that I offered help... Curse my Christian Ninja ways :P Seriously though I feel that if you really love someone friendship is just as important if not more important than any other thing. This from the Christian Ninja who walks through the halls at school with a roll of duct tape on his wrist and as many as two graphing calculators as well as a copy of The Art of War so...
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If you know _you_ wont destroy your friendship if she gently rejects you then go for it!
Worst case: if it wrecks your friendship it is better to find out that they weren\'t a worthy friend.
Best case: you deepen a relationship with someone you love who you know loves you.
Also, second the no post rejection stalking comment.
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well it seems she didn\'t even hear what I said, so things will probably go back to normal tomorrow.
but since I\'ve met her I\'ve changed I\'ve became nicer, I was a pretty mean nerd(lol),
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It may be wisest to avoid the situation in the first place. Spend more time on the forums! You don\'t see pretty girls there! (except... I think I\'m falling for Karyuu... nevermind)
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And my friendship slowy degrades, what happen I don\'t know, but it seems I\'m a better friend for her when she is dating.
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Oh em gee, Waylander is out of his thread :O
Anyways, this happened to me, we ended up ... having fun and then haven\'t spoken to each other since :D
I like to think it worked out well, but most people are lovey-dovey and so the advise I pass on to you is this.
1. Don\'t get drunk with her :P
2. If she is interested then don\'t take it for granted but, at the same time don\'t be too overbearing.
3. Don\'t break the news to her during an innocent sleepover, if you do, it\'ll end up either not innocent, or not a sleepover(you go home).
4. Friends are much more important than anything else, think this through, will her being your girlfriend be better than having her as a friend
5. Make sure your feelings are true. A lot of people are looking for love and while doing so will turn other emotions into it, realize it after they get the person, and then ruin that persons life...for about two weeks :P
And last, but not least, in fact, it is last and most important
6. TEH REDHEADS ARE TEH DEVILS!!!!oneoneoneone
Thank you and good night
...
...
7. Make sure she is single
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And avoid blondes. Although I am blonde and _fairly_ intelligent, I do believe I\'m an exception to my race.
Go for the brunettes.
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and the friendship is over, and she doesn\'t want me around her because it would feel \"akward\".
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bugger her then. she wouldn\'t have been worth it if that is her responce.
but still chase after some else then. if you have friends in common and she complains about you showing up, it\'s her problem. so move on, it\'s her loss.
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Originally posted by steuben
bugger her then. she wouldn\'t have been worth it if that is her responce.
but still chase after some else then. if you have friends in common and she complains about you showing up, it\'s her problem. so move on, it\'s her loss.
aperently I\'m too nice,
and I will respect her wishes because that is who I am.
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*raises an eyebrow*
You can\'t be serious. What the hell?! She is going to let a little awkwardness destroy your friendship? That is shallow. She is only thinking of how she feels, and nothing of what you are going through. That is -not- what friends do. X(
You want the honest truth? Most guys have had a bit of a crush on their female friends at one time or another. Some even more than a crush. The only difference this time, is that you had the courage to tell her.
That is not something to be penalized.
Does not want you around? That is pathetic, and really shows which of you is the stronger. Has she even considered how hard and awkward it has been for -you-? You have felt this way for some time now, have you not? And spent endless moments wishing you -could- tell her. Now -that- is awkward.
Now listen to me. Things can go several ways from here.
One, you let her have her way, and you both lose a good friend, and possibly more. You never know.
Two, your feelings never change, and neither do hers. But you stick together as you always have. Friendships CAN AND DO exist in this situation all the time. Sometimes the best of friendships.
Three, -your- feelings change, and you can see her as just a friend. If this happens, be SURE to tell her, as some actions could be misconstrued.
Four, -her- feelings could change, and she sees you for the great, devoted guy that you are. (this is the preferred one, of course, but also the rarest)
Five. The bad one. You end up hating each other, or other sort of bad feelings that make you part ways. It happens, but it is worth the risk. However, that HAS NOT happened yet in your case. Don?t give up yet.
Six, if a tree falls in the woods, does it make a sound? It may, but you\'ll never know if you are not there. The same applies to your friendship/love. If you run off, and are not there, you will not know.
Just a few thoughts from the moon. Who, by the way, is still the very best of friends with his lady after telling, and will be spending half the summer with her. Just as friends. Awkwardness or not.
Send this to your friend. What can it do, make things awkward?
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I agree with Under the Moon completely. After my little escapade we\'re still great friends (Some Freshman do deserve to live after all... :P). I think that, and she agrees, that friendship is more important than anything else. I am a warrior and I fight for love, the love of friends, the love of family, and of course the love I feel towards her and because of this I\'m able to easily be her friend and a brother figure but that\'s because she was willing to see that I could still be that. I think that\'s what you need to communicate to her, you need to tell her you can still be her friend.
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and again I will respect her wishes,
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*Clears her throat seeing that there is no female presence on this thread* Ummm... nightstalian really important question. How long have you been friends with her?
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Originally posted by zorbels
*Clears her throat seeing that there is no female presence on this thread* Ummm... nightstalian really important question. How long have you been friends with her?
time matters not on the wheel of love.
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*smiles* Well I would beg to differ and if you have only known her for a short while then I could see why she would distance herself if she wasn\'t interested.
If you have known her for a long time then perhaps maybe she is taking time away because she feels akward. (nothing wrong with that) Maybe she is upset that bringing these feelings to her attention has messed up her friendship with you, and she maybe upset with you for it. As you said time matters not ...so then you must now play the waiting game. She may or may not come back. If your friendship was strong then she will. If you only knew her for a week well then it is understandable she won\'t be coming back....
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oh boy this should be interesting... been there done that and got the t-shirt and the marks on my forhead where i hit it. In alot of cases this sort of thing ends up with a dating thing happening... although im quite worried that you said you \"love\" her. Personally i only say love to people when im joking and they know im joking (say friend and random people...also people who hate me :D) or to someone i totally mean it too... and since last time i did for real i met queen ego from hell 2.0 i have no plans in saying it for a long time
*looks over what he said*
oook ranted there... anyways what i mean is take it slow... dont get over clingy, dont start growling at all her ex boyfriends saying your going to break there jaw\'s like an idiot. just live and learn about the person first :)
yea i dont make sence...:P
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Err something is not quite right here :) for some strange reason (probably lemon based) I find myself agreeing with Sep\'s first statements and disagreeing with the last, I think it makes perfect sense.
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I think respecting her wishes may be best...and then setting fire to a bag of dogy doo outside her front door...every sunday for a week :D
I don\'t know, seeing as none of us know what she is going through in her life, perhaps it is best just to back off for a little while but make it clear that she can always come back to you, even just for friendship.
She is a redhead, isn\'t she?
And if she isn\'t then she is just really good and dyeing her hair or something....
ummm
*poof* (Last post for atleast a month, I promise, I only happen to come upon this thread while reading Karyuu\'s post BEGGING me to come back...yep...that is what happened... >.> <.<)
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Originally posted by Waylander
I think respecting her wishes may be best...and then setting fire to a bag of dogy doo outside her front door...every sunday for a week :D
I don\'t know, seeing as none of us know what she is going through in her life, perhaps it is best just to back off for a little while but make it clear that she can always come back to you, even just for friendship.
She is a redhead, isn\'t she?
And if she isn\'t then she is just really good and dyeing her hair or something....
ummm
*poof* (Last post for atleast a month, I promise, I only happen to come upon this thread while reading Karyuu\'s post BEGGING me to come back...yep...that is what happened... >.> <.<)
yeah she knows how to dye her hair
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ok i hate the f***** b**** now. I hate most girls.
you dont neeed her,and she isnt worth s**t and you know it.
she is a traiting unsesitive b***h and you can do with out.
alot are.
better friends out there.
hope you feel better.
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Originally posted by nightstalian
and the friendship is over, and she doesn\'t want me around her because it would feel \"akward\".
My advice to you: FORGET ABOUT HER AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. If this is her reaction, then she\'s an energy sucker. The following adjectives may also apply: Manipulative, shallow, juvenile, insecure, dishonest.
At least you have a clear answer though! Sounds like she couldn\'t have been that good a friend in the first place.
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Actually, parents can answer such questions better than most kids can... well, they were teens once too!
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Originally posted by defender43
Actually, parents can answer such questions better than most kids can... well, they were teens once too!
Oh god no.... don\'t go to your parents with questions about your love life. They\'re incapable of being objective.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
Originally posted by nightstalian
and the friendship is over, and she doesn\'t want me around her because it would feel \"akward\".
My advice to you: FORGET ABOUT HER AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. If this is her reaction, then she\'s an energy sucker. The following adjectives may also apply: Manipulative, shallow, juvenile, insecure, dishonest.
At least you have a clear answer though! Sounds like she couldn\'t have been that good a friend in the first place.
I couldn\'t forget about an angel
I was apathidic before I met her
I became someone when we became friends
Originally posted by zorbels
*smiles* Well I would beg to differ and if you have only known her for a short while then I could see why she would distance herself if she wasn\'t interested.
If you have known her for a long time then perhaps maybe she is taking time away because she feels akward. (nothing wrong with that) Maybe she is upset that bringing these feelings to her attention has messed up her friendship with you, and she maybe upset with you for it. As you said time matters not ...so then you must now play the waiting game. She may or may not come back. If your friendship was strong then she will. If you only knew her for a week well then it is understandable she won\'t be coming back....
I knew her better then anyone, so it wasn\'t all that of a surpise.
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Originally posted by nightstalian
I couldn\'t forget about an angel
You\'ve already seen that she isn\'t an angel.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
Originally posted by nightstalian
I couldn\'t forget about an angel
You\'ve already seen that she isn\'t an angel.
And do you know her...
I like to look for the better sides of people....
,as when I see president bush I see the devil( LOL)yes I live in america.
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Originally posted by nightstalian
I knew her better then anyone, so it wasn\'t all that of a surpise.
Then I wish you the best and do not worry I am sure after sometime she will come to her senses. It is a known fact that best friends do need a break from one and other from time to time. Maybe this is just one of those times.
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Originally posted by nightstalian
Originally posted by zanzibar
Originally posted by nightstalian
I couldn\'t forget about an angel
You\'ve already seen that she isn\'t an angel.
And do you know her...
I like to look for the better sides of people....
,as when I see president bush I see the devil( LOL)yes I live in america.
From the way you said she reacted,
It\'s obvious that she isn\'t an angel.
Years from now, you\'ll be kicking yourself for not getting over her sooner.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
From the way you said she reacted,
It\'s obvious that she isn\'t an angel.
Years from now, you\'ll be kicking yourself for not getting over her sooner.
Maybe, maybe not. for all you know It might have been love that made her drive me away from her.
Maybe she thought I should be with someone else.
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Originally posted by nightstalian
Originally posted by zanzibar
From the way you said she reacted,
It\'s obvious that she isn\'t an angel.
Years from now, you\'ll be kicking yourself for not getting over her sooner.
Maybe, maybe not. for all you know It might have been love that made her drive me away from her.
Maybe she thought I should be with someone else.
Love drove her away from you? Keep dreaming. Maybe she just doesn\'t like you romantically.
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\"Days of Our Lives will be back after these messages..\"
Did I ever mention how much I hate soap operas lol.
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Ok since this seems the help people in love problems lets see if you guys can help Efflixi out. :D
Ok my best female friend is really good friends with my most recent ex.
I used to have a crush on her before i met my ex.
Now me and her talk like non stop and we do stuff togeather BUT, my stupid self has feelings for her again and i dont know what to do.
If she feels the same way i dont even know if shell say yes because of her relationship with my ex. :\'(
Oh and i must say i was in the exact same situation as the thread started before i met my ex with this same girl. She, of course, said no to going out but we still stayed really close friends.
Well we werent as good friends back then but now we are so u think shellcange her mind this time orsui just move on....
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*sigh*
thats what flirting was invented for... it tests the water but gives you the power to brush it off as a joke. As long as you dont get too heavy with it when you start :P then if your getting a good responce you can try a little more and so on untill your mostly sure that its a mutuial feeling....
but dont do this over weeks or months or else it might just become commonplace in the friendship and then you wont get the right feedback :)
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Originally posted by nightstalian
Originally posted by zanzibar
Originally posted by nightstalian
and the friendship is over, and she doesn\'t want me around her because it would feel \"akward\".
My advice to you: FORGET ABOUT HER AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. If this is her reaction, then she\'s an energy sucker. The following adjectives may also apply: Manipulative, shallow, juvenile, insecure, dishonest.
At least you have a clear answer though! Sounds like she couldn\'t have been that good a friend in the first place.
I couldn\'t forget about an angel
I was apathidic before I met her
I became someone when we became friends
If she treated you that way, she obviously isn\'t an \'angel\'.
And yes, parents ARE quite objective.
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Originally posted by seperot
*sigh*
thats what flirting was invented for... it tests the water but gives you the power to brush it off as a joke. As long as you dont get too heavy with it when you start :P then if your getting a good responce you can try a little more and so on untill your mostly sure that its a mutuial feeling....
but dont do this over weeks or months or else it might just become commonplace in the friendship and then you wont get the right feedback :)
Good call.
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OK, as this is about love in general i\'d like to tell you how it\'s on the other side, with a manly friend \"liking\" you!
It was maybe the first school year\'s month when a strange guy went up to me. He acted strange as i was reading Science Illustrated, and when he fianlly came forth to me he asked where the library was. As i was sitting in the library he went a way 3 seconds later with a friend coming to his rescue, walking away in haste.
Later that day i was scribbling on an essay, reading some \"modern art\" [comics, ok?] he once again came forth to me and asked what i was doing, a bit more slefconfident. I told him i was reading World of Warcraft comics and he seemed unhealthily interested. As i had seen his way of behaving around me and i did so with the girls, i asked him if he was into me and i guess you know what he said. So, as i am an openminded person i was happy for SOMEONE liking me, even though it was a mate of the same sex. I didn\'t tell him i was straight as i didn\'t know at that time [just gone into the \"i am a teenager, what else?\" phase and wanted to try something new, and how i felt with guys].
Because of his flattering answer at the computers we and a group of other \"outcasts\" started a friend gang, with him inviting me home to him every day. He assured me, and even my mother, nothing was going to happen between him and me[many see me as a guy who\'s looking like 5 years older and he was maybe 29].
Now, this guy which i now knew as \"Leif\" was a bit awkward in sense. He was very nice[can\'t even use that expression as to validate how NICE he was!] and at first i liked him. He seemed to act like i did, but he had something fishy going. He seemed to work up a strategy on how to make me fall in love with him [you know, guys ;P] and i discovered it. I lay undercover with my discovery until one night when we, the gang and i, had our very first feast together. We drank a bit. Some got as pissed as monkeys high on crack and someone actually kissed someone else[please don\'t ask me what sexes, cause i wasn\'t looking and wouldn\'t want to be reminded]. Now the party finally got out of hand, and as the nice and witty person i am i tried to sort it out, but my energy after 2 months of socializing had taken its turn and i was burned out with Leif\'s attempt to free me from my straight nature. I simply had to get out of this gang. The problems they had had seemed minor from the start but it soon got out of hand. I tried to get Leif ad the other to understand[leaving a person who\'s loving you is HARD! and so did the nice persons in the gang] this wasn\'t for the sake of the gang, this was the sake of me trying to keep my mind intact!
With a few sessions with the school shrink i finally had time to talk out with the guy and i finally discovered my true turn to the sexes. I was sure straight and am proud to say it just as a happy homosexual would\'ve said it! \"pride to the people!\".
Though, i still have no prejudices or grudges against homosexual men or women i\'m not as naive as i was once upon a time, and i hope everyone will enjoy others just as they are! I value the one who see\'s the best in people! My advice is think twice. First critisize yourself for having such thoughts about a total stranger sitting on that bar-stool, second: think of yourself as the poor guy having to take looks and words from total strangers passing past you
\"Look at that Nigger, why isn\'t he home in the ghetto\'s\" \"Yuck, i hate homo\'s. They\'re soo disgusting!\"
You can joke about them or even talk in friendly tone but the words will always be the same.
Think twice, think wise!
[Maybe this was a ranting thread. Sorry:( Wasn\'t meant to. Meant this in good will to the supressed ones. Delete this post if you like...]
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Originally posted by seperot
... although im quite worried that you said you \"love\" her...
The only problem with that is that love means a lot of different things. Many people, myself included, have no problem telling their friends that they love them without wanting to go out with them. Love is an emotion that is not held down to people that you \"like\" or family, but also your everyday friends. Although in this case I think your probably right...
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Suprised nobody has mentioned the Ladder Theory (http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.html). You tried to jump ladders from \'friend\' to \'real\' and ended up in the abyss.
A quote:
(http://www.intellectualwhores.com/images/womansladder.jpg)
The first thing to notice here is that a woman has not one ,but two ladders. This is becasue in addition the normal ladder, a woman also has a friends ladder. The friends ladder is where a woman puts guys that she considers \"just friends\". More to the point where she puts guys who don\'t get to have sex with her.
The problem arises because a woman never lets a guy know which ladder he is on. Obviously there is a huge difference, or gap between these two ladders. It is in this gap that kisses of death are delivered and intellectual whores are made. All a man can do is \"go for it\" and make a move on a girl; ask her out, try to kiss her, write her a love note or whatever. If he\'s on the good ladder fine. If he is on the friends ladder this is a case of ladder jumping. The man is trying to jump the gap from the friends ladder to the real ladder. The girl has two choices at this point: she can let him on the ladder and all is well, or, more likely, she can kick him in the head, and off the ladder. If you look you\'ll see that below the ladder is the Abyss(what was it Nietzsche said about a man being on a rope stretched over an Abyss?....well it\'s worse than he thought; there is no rope.) So the man falls into the Abyss. The Abyss isn\'t really as bad as it sounds. Mostly it\'s a period of self-loathing, embarrassment, and of course utter awkwardness with the girl in question if they are talking at all.
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What is love?What is lust?
Love is sacrifice, putting yourself last for someone you deeply care about.
Lust is anti-love, a mockery of all that love is, through it many secrede practices are put to shame, downtrodden and made into nothing more then games for mere amusment, etc Dating and Sex.
Don\'t be fool into thinking that it\'s not lust, just because it\'s their personality that gets you
What did dating use to be?
dating was, courtship a way of finding your spouse without lust.
What is dating now?
dating now is a game, a way to spend the evening\'s, horse off, and now it is also filled with sex
Am I wrong?
THat is for you to find out search your hearts and souls maybe it will come.
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I think your view is a bit too traditional for most people to relate to nowadays - \"lust\" isn\'t such a bad or negative or unwanted and unnatural thing. It can be if it gets out of control, but lust is itself a healthy and human thing.
Frankly, I think the whole \"love is sacrifice\" definition just doesn\'t work. Love is not putting anyone above you - it\'s making sure that everything is balanced and balanced extremely well - that your happiness shares with someone else\'s happiness, and if someone else is really happy but you truly aren\'t, that\'s not quite love anymore.
Yes dating is a game, and it\'s a fun game. You\'re also deluding yourself if you think that lust never played a role in courtships of the past ;) There is nothing wrong with a friendly non-serious date, \"a way to spend the evening\" as you put it. It\'s just another way of bonding with someone, testing the waters so to speak.
I also think that although you may whisper such sweet nothings to yourself or to your object of affection, you can\'t understand loving anyone until you\'ve spent years and years with them. While you\'re a teenager, you don\'t understand love period.
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I Love the ladder idea...never heard of that one before. Don\'t mind if I quote you...
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Originally posted by Karyuu
Frankly, I think the whole \"love is sacrifice\" definition just doesn\'t work. Love is not putting anyone above you - it\'s making sure that everything is balanced and balanced extremely well - that your happiness shares with someone else\'s happiness, and if someone else is really happy but you truly aren\'t, that\'s not quite love anymore.
ask your self when you love someone, Would you die for that somebody? That is what I consider love, sacrifice the willingness to put yourself before someone, not putting above
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Hormones.
Hormones hormones hormones. Repeat after me :)
Seriously - you think it\'s noble and powerful, but when you\'re in your teens, it\'s just being a dreamer. I hated hearing that, but it took a while to realize just how right that is. You shouldn\'t be ready to die for anything at your age. Our age.
Did you ever answer the question of how long you knew this girl?
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Originally posted by Karyuu
Hormones.
Hormones hormones hormones. Repeat after me :)
Seriously - you think it\'s noble and powerful, but when you\'re in your teens, it\'s just being a dreamer. I hated hearing that, but it took a while to realize just how right that is. You shouldn\'t be ready to die for anything at your age. Our age.
Did you ever answer the question of how long you knew this girl?
Are you saying love has to be at an age now to be consider love, are you saying I\'m to young to die, to young too believe in something strong enough to die, Are you saying I\'m to young to know the meaning of love.
I gurentie you that age has no bounderies for love, and that you are a bigot not of race or gender but of age, truly this sounds true to you. I live and work through life believing that I try to do the best things possible most of the time. Sure I may not not, or may, have some more wisdom then someone out older then me but the truth is that love is somthing out there that anyone can feel, regardless of there age.
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I still maintain that it\'s infatuation :) So how long have you known the girl, again?
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Originally posted by Karyuu
I still maintain that it\'s infatuation :) So how long have you known the girl, again?
half a year, how long does it take to know a person=never how long does it take to feel=imeditatly
how long does it take to know how you feel=depends
but this largly depends on what type of person you are I am a Chirstian
So I believe in Predestitnation, and God giving us a \"free will\"
So what do I believe? I believe life is just a huge RPG
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feeling it isn\'t the hard part. it\'s knowing what to do with the damned thing once you\'ve got it. love must be termpered with wisdom, either earned or borrowed. it must be alloyed with repsect all four ways. and it is truely crafted the best, either by skilled hands or not, from stock of a solid friendship. but, sometimes there are just some pieces that cannot be worked as you like. sometimes you can only tell by trying. such is the price of the craft.
whether it is a finished work, or it slowly reduced to slag, move forward. try the next peice. bear it in mind, but do not let it hold back your hand. a hesitant hammer blow in the right place on cooling metal, can be worse then the sure one in the wrong place.
*wonders how much longer he can keep up the smithing metphor. nope, guess not much longer.*
that and there is, as hard as it maybe to beleive, a much better social life after high school.
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Ah, the good ole love discussion. *hops in and stirs up the coals*
On a more serious note, it\'s my opinion that all teenagedom is basically a giant testing ground. Sure, as I\'ve grown up, I had a crush or two, but I held off on diving in to make sure they were single, and to make sure there was potential for reciprocating feelings. Alas, such was not the case. (they were all taken grrr) So, the next several years, I just kinda stayed a loner...especially during the couple years I transferred to UNF since I didn\'t really know anyone, and i\'m not the social type.
Couple years later, got an e-mail from some girl off a dating site (had a profile so I could mess around with the quizzes...yeah...you know you do them too, so shaddap :P ) Anyways, thought I deleted all my profiles, but I guess I missed one, or it got bought out by a different site. Anyhoo, she was a local girl, nice looking, seemed intelligent and nice, so I decided to say what the hell, and give it a try.
End result: a year and a half, still going strong, going out with a girl who went to the Northwest School for the Arts for her highschool, and she\'s currently working on her Ph.D. in neuroscience at UF.
My point? You just never really know what could happen a couple years down the road.
As for my actual views on love...it\'s not so much about sacrificing yourself. I mean sure... -anyone- would do everything they can to help the people they care about. This is true for friends, family, and your significant other. However, my girlfriend and I are equals. Neither of us values one over the other. We\'re an item! :D (i know, cheesey, but it works I think)
Point is, you\'re young, have a ton of options open, and college life is far far far far farrrrrr greater than highschool life. People in college tend to be more true to themselves...and..in a general sense, just more...\"Real.\" Besides, there\'s more things to do in college. More freedom, and of course, more responsiblity...which i\'ve kinda been shirking some of mine lately *cough*
Besides, there are a LOT of beautiful and nice women in the world. There are also a lot of creepy not-so-nice girls with personal/social problems as well. Like...my ex for instance *shudders* although we never really dated much. Besides, as it was put to me (by my g/f no less) Dating in highschool is all about making the other people jealous :P
Right now I\'d say you\'re at a recoverable stage. Just lay low, let things blow over, and move on. Those feelings will die away after awhile. If after a month or so, she still doesn\'t wanna be around you even as just friends, then move on, and don\'t look back. It\'s not worth the trouble. And...for the record NOBODY is angelic ... my g/f included hehe.
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Originally posted by Vaylos
Point is, you\'re young, have a ton of options open, and college life is far far far far farrrrrr greater than highschool life. People in college tend to be more true to themselves...and..in a general sense, just more...\"Real.\" Besides, there\'s more things to do in college.
Yes! :D Once you graduate highschool and move on to to a higher institution, you really begin to realize just how silly everything back then was. All the little social hierarchies, the intricate finding-out-who-you-belong-with, and whatnot. It is very much a testing ground, of nearly everything - and mostly yourself and your beliefs and standards. Once you\'re out of there, all the popularity and \"coolness\" junk just disappears. It\'s a whole other world from my experience. People are so much less immature and willing to be themselves than to paint a false picture in hopes that everyone will vote for them for prettiest this and that. Love in highschool is just so very unlikely... Infatuation and its various blinding symptoms, however, are very much rampant.
I think the bottom line is that love has to be mutual to be sure it\'s love, the way I see it. If there\'s a one-sided pining for someone, it\'s a bit different.
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Belark, can we leave prejudice out of this? African Americans do not choose to be so. They are born that way.
Sexual perversion, however, is a choice, and if it happens, you\'ve only yourself to blame.
Do not compare African Americans and perverts.
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......Sexual perversion? Perverts? Woah there.....
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Originally posted by Karyuu
Yes! :D Once you graduate highschool and move on to to a higher institution, you really begin to realize just how silly everything back then was. All the little social hierarchies, the intricate finding-out-who-you-belong-with, and whatnot. It is very much a testing ground, of nearly everything - and mostly yourself and your beliefs and standards. Once you\'re out of there, all the popularity and \"coolness\" junk just disappears. It\'s a whole other world from my experience. People are so much less immature and willing to be themselves than to paint a false picture in hopes that everyone will vote for them for prettiest this and that. Love in highschool is just so very unlikely... Infatuation and its various blinding symptoms, however, are very much rampant.
I think the bottom line is that love has to be mutual to be sure it\'s love, the way I see it. If there\'s a one-sided pining for someone, it\'s a bit different.
I get what you\'re saying, but I think that you\'re projecting. For me personally, and my good friends, we never bought into the social hierarchy BS. We laughed at the shallowness of others, and we formed relationships that were real and that have stood the test of time. This includes romantic relationships.
Originally posted by defender43
Belark, can we leave prejudice out of this? African Americans do not choose to be so. They are born that way.
Sexual perversion, however, is a choice, and if it happens, you\'ve only yourself to blame.
Do not compare African Americans and perverts.
What the hell are you talking about? What is your definition of perversion?
For reference: To me, the only real perversion is anything non-consentual.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
For me personally, and my good friends, we never bought into the social hierarchy BS. We laughed at the shallowness of others, and we formed relationships that were real and that have stood the test of time. This includes romantic relationships.
Aye, there are small circles of good friends here and there that don\'t fit into the \"high school mold,\" so to speak. But the mold is still there, and a vast majority belong to it, and recognize it, and feel its presence. That seems to disappear once you\'re out of highschool.
I was probably generalizing a lot, but individual experiences color beliefs.
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It doesn\'t disapear completely. In dorms for instance, it\'s still around to a degree. And at alternative rock clubs of course, where you\'re judged by how purposefully messy your haircut is.
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I don\'t bother to comb my hair anymore...and it still works...does that count? ^_^ Aye, i\'ve seen clicks of people in dorms here and there, from my experience, but it wasn\'t really prevalent where I was....of course...we didn\'t really have any areas sectioned off for fraternities either. They had to share the dorms along with everyone else *grin*
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Friends again, as I said it would work out
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Congradulations man
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Hummm, on again, off again, just friends, romance. Sounds like trouble to me. I think Zanzibar, Karyuu, and acraig are all right on target.
6 months is way too short for anything. At any age.
High school is not really the best of times to form serious relationships with the opposite sex. It can work, but it is the exception rather than the rule.
You are most definitely on the friends ladder. She may be a very nice person but she too is in high school (an assumption on my part) and is prone to hormones and her own self discovery that might not include you.
This may not be true of you, but for me, I had a lot more success with women (and life in general) after I figured out who I was. I spent a lot wasted time trying to hook up with women before I even understood what kind of woman that I was attracted too (I mean the mind part, the body part I knew).
[edit: uggly spelling]
[Edit:
Taking advice from an internet forum of an online game is not generally a good idea either.]
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I have to say that derwoodly brings up a very good point in the last part of his post. Not only after you figure out who you are though, you must first accept that. And stop lieing to yourself, slightly off topic. Everybody does it, but come on, who the hell are you fooling? yourself?
After you do that, you are pretty much set for life.
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There\'s a fine line between being sensitive to others and taking things too seriously.
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Isn\'t it called the friend zone :-P
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I disagree on the definition of love with you Karyuu. You can be in love with something incapable of loving you back, say an ideology, or a teddy bear.
Nightstalian, don\'t let other people tell you how to interpret your own emotions. Be wary, and heed others\' warnings, but in the end, they are YOUR feelings. For example, I know a couple who were sweethearts in high school.. and ended up getting married.
And, Nightstalian, just because nothing is happening now, doesn\'t mean it can\'t happen in the future. Don\'t act as if it will though, just be yourself, have fun with her. That\'s probably the most important part. Actually, there should probably aways be a period of just being \'friends\' before becoming more - you don\'t want to find yourself in a relationship only for convenience.
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Originally posted by Levski
I disagree on the definition of love with you Karyuu. You can be in love with something incapable of loving you back, say an ideology, or a teddy bear.
The love for an ideology or an object is not the same as the love you experience for another real person.
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How so, Karyuu?
And, I just noticed Acraig\'s Ladder Theory post. I personally think that\'s just bull. No offense Acraig. Girl\'s are just like guys, mostly. Only, our society teaches guys to be afraid of rejection.
Seriously, ladder theory is basically saying there\'s only one type of girl, an inflexible kind. People joke about it, but then some take it seriously, and never go out on a limb because of it (or something else like it, like, the belief that your friends will laugh at you because you like someone).
Just be open, flirt (as Seperot says), have fun. Then when you get a girlfriend, learn all of her idiosyncrasies, and make sure she knows you care (one form of caring is to not smother her with your affection).
Edit: Wait, you\'re right, Karyuu, those are two different kinds of love. I still think your definition is wrong, though. Needing an outside confirmation of an inner feeling is just a method to make sure that you won\'t get hurt.
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Originally posted by Levski
How so, Karyuu?
You are saying that the love for a husband and wife is the same love you may feel towards a Teddy Bear?
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See Edit on previous post ^^ Sorry, must have been typing the edit as you responded.
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Sorry for the misunderstanding :) It\'s not about needing a confirmation, but about the feeling being complete. Is there any doubt that a one-sided love is of a different quality than a love returned? Sure, you can \"love\" someone without the feeling being mutual, but it quickly becomes just yearning and pining, and it doesn\'t grow - it doesn\'t mature, it doesn\'t evolve, it doesn\'t bring you happiness unless it becomes complete.
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Ah ok, I like that definition better. See, love can exist if it\'s one sided. It just doesn\'t go anywhere. But it does get better if it is two sided. I agree, wholeheartedly. Much better.
Actually, I think that\'s probably the hardest part in all. Not just finding a boyfriend or girlfriend who likes you back, but letting it grow.
Actually, that just happened to me. We liked each other, but then it stumbled. Gosh, why do girls have to be so difficult? :P
Oh, and another thing. Back to Nightstalian, telling the truth is important in ANY relationship. I think people value truth more than the comfort of a present relationship. Besides, it makes her see you in a different light, and people love drama anyway.
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Originally posted by Levski
Oh, and another thing. Back to Nightstalian, telling the truth is important in ANY relationship. I think people value truth more than the comfort of a present relationship. Besides, it makes her see you in a different light, and people love drama anyway.
I agree with the truth part but not the drama part. I do not love drama in a personal relationship. Drama on the web is great, drama in my own life is seldom a good thing. My first relationships did have a lot of drama and the result of that was... not good. Now I have much less drama and a lot more humor, I am generally happy.
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Originally posted by Levski
Oh, and another thing. Back to Nightstalian, telling the truth is important in ANY relationship. I think people value truth more than the comfort of a present relationship. Besides, it makes her see you in a different light, and people love drama anyway.
Heh, I can\'t remember the exact words but it went something along the lines of \"Our relationship was based on lies from the start...it\'s where all relationships end up so, it seemed like the logical place to start.\"
Anyways, there is a lot of lovey-dovey feeling going around here, and although that\'s alright, it is a bit too much. I hate to put a downer on the love-fest but, don\'t take all the happy pink feelings to far, women love gritty black just as much. The relationship is about balance, if you do everything right, it\'ll fail. If you do everything wrong, it\'ll fail. You\'ve gotta do the wrong thing once in a while. I\'m not telling you to cheat, I\'m just telling you to white lie...and sometimes, let her find out.
Lust > Love \\o/ *runs away*
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I meant as an interest factor. It just throws your name out into the fray, if you can call it that.
Edit: Waylander, nothing wrong with lovey-dovey. ;) And I don\'t think it\'s possible to do everything right, ever.
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Originally posted by Waylander
I\'m not telling you to cheat, I\'m just telling you to white lie...and sometimes, let her find out.
Now we all learn why Waylander doesn\'t have successful relationships ;)
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You misunderstood me, I wasn\'t attacking your post at all. I was just pointing out that there are other things he needs to do aswell as be the perfect gentleman :)
Oh and I forgot to mention...the quote was (along with being way off :P )from Nicholas Cage in Lord of War... great movie, may want to watch it to see how his relationship ends up
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Waylander, I think you mean that you have to keep the relationship interesting. There\'s better ways to do that than lie...
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Not as much interesting, but you have to do things that will get her mad at you. I guess there are probably better ways to do it than to lie...but all the same, it\'s a pretty good option and leads to great....stuff ;)
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Uh, that\'s only if she doesn\'t get mad enough to leave you. ;)
I don\'t think you\'re earning too many brownie points with the female Planeshifters, Waylander. :-P
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If you seriously think that lying in a relationship is an okay idea just to make things interesting, however small, you\'re never going to get very far.
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Originally posted by Karyuu
If you seriously think that lying in a relationship is an okay idea just to make things interesting, however small, you\'re never going to get very far.
Meh. It gives the person something to pursue and break through. If you\'re dealing with a rescuer, it can work depending on the lie. Let\'s face it - complete honesty isn\'t always the best policy if you want someone to be interested in you. It rarely is, actually, and I wouldn\'t even say that it\'s something that people really want.
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I dislike the \"make a white lie and sometimes let her find out\" line, because that seems too much like playing a game for the sake of entertainment. If you need lies to keep a relationship interesting, something is wrong.
I\'m not arguing about the need to dance around the truth sometimes - as unfortunate as that may be and as much as it should be avoided. I\'m arguing about Waylander\'s careless phrasing and perhaps careless thought process.
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I don\'t mean to sound sexist, I have just never dated a guy and so have no idea how it works the other way :P
Lying is obviously okay in a relationship, hell, you need to lie quite often \"No, I didn\'t get drunk, I only drank a little\" goes over better than \"I threw up EVERYWHERE!!!\". And, as much as you may disagree, women need to get mad at their boyfriends. I don\'t quite understand it, but they just need to and when they do it you have two choices 1) Get yelled at more but end up alright by giving her an actual reason OR 2) Not do anything wrong which ends up in her feeling guilty which after a while will make her feel like the bad guy and cause her to hate herself, which in her mind = you made her hate herself which ends up with her leaving you and going out with the scum of the earth just so she is the better party...
1) You apologize, she stays mad at you for a while, you do something kind out of love and then you get the best...stuff ;) you\'ve had in months \\o/
I\'m not talking about lying to her all the time, just often enough so she feels like she is the better party (but not by much).
Of course I could be wrong
^^^That\'s a joke :P
That\'s a joke^^^ O.o
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Now we all learn why Waylander doesn\'t have successful relationships ;)
My point still stands and has just been reinforced.
And, as much as you may disagree, women need to get mad at their boyfriends [...]
Generalizations and assumptions aren\'t healthy.
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Waylander stays away from relationships because they are a complete joke along with notions such as love and \"being meant for each other\", beauty ;)
And relationships are about playing a game for the sake of entertainment (and of course our neverending search to find a meaning in life blah de blah blah :P)
I don\'t think you\'re earning too many brownie points with the female Planeshifters, Waylander. :-P
I know, I don\'t really care about them at the moment, just for this poor kid who everybody is pushing into a fantasy world with their lovey dovey thoughts :P
Many others agree with my point of view Karyuu, just most are smart enough not to make the truth public :P
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Intresting advice Waylander, perhaps your dating ideals have been influenced by books like this...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0142001198/102-4819696-2420966?v=glance&n=283155
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Originally posted by Karyuu
I dislike the \"make a white lie and sometimes let her find out\" line, because that seems too much like playing a game for the sake of entertainment. If you need lies to keep a relationship interesting, something is wrong.
I\'m not arguing about the need to dance around the truth sometimes - as unfortunate as that may be and as much as it should be avoided. I\'m arguing about Waylander\'s careless phrasing and perhaps careless thought process.
I don\'t mean a white lie. I mean, let\'s say you have a certain look. And a girl asks you what\'s wrong. You can either say that there\'s nothing wrong with a smile on your face, or you can pour your heart out on the girl. Which do you think is more attractive?
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Originally posted by derwoodly
Intresting advice Waylander, perhaps your dating ideals have been influenced by books like this...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0142001198/102-4819696-2420966?v=glance&n=283155
Hmm, I don\'t read books on the stuff. I just happen to be around relationships a lot...too much
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Throughout my dating with girls i figured out that the best thing is to make certain \"semi-obvious\" remarks or say certain things to lure her out of the \"cage\".
This way you can check if a girl would actually like you.
I had the same thing, i was head over heels in love with someone and yes i would actually die for her ( i have the crack in my wrist bone to prove it ).
Eventually you should wait with opening yourself up to a girl untill you know the feelings are mutual.
The easiest thing i have found to know if a woman is likeing you is saying you always kiss your good friend on their mouth ( only with the other sex offcourse ), if she doesn\'t wanna do that, well you know for sure she doesn\'t like you enough for a relation.
Woman are hard to figure what they want, they somehow can handle their hormones better then men, or the male hormone makes you do strange things.
Good luck with the girl man, i hope it will work out a bit even after here akwerd feeling moment.
Btw, i eventually had the girl by doing things that all girls like, but that, is my secret :P
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Originally posted by zanzibar
I mean, let\'s say you have a certain look. And a girl asks you what\'s wrong. You can either say that there\'s nothing wrong with a smile on your face, or you can pour your heart out on the girl. Which do you think is more attractive?
Pour your heart out - if she\'s doing the \"What\'s wrong?\" line just as that courtesy gesture our culture has imprinted onto us with no meaning behind it, tough luck. If she genuinely cares, it\'ll show.
And it\'s even more important if you are in a relationship together.
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Originally posted by dorbian
Woman are hard to figure what they want, they somehow can handle their hormones better then men,
Yes we maybe able to control our hormones but not our emotional state at times .... Can we say ..... Rollercoaster ride. :P
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Waylander, if a girl likes you in the first place, she\'s interested in you. Unless you turn out to be a complete jerk, or you don\'t keep up your end of the relationship, she\'ll stay interested in you.
But if she doesn\'t stay interested in you, you move on. Life doesn\'t end with the end of a relationship.
And Dorbian, I would think that your kiss method would send the message that all you\'re after is the \"benefits\" part.
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Originally posted by Karyuu
Originally posted by zanzibar
I mean, let\'s say you have a certain look. And a girl asks you what\'s wrong. You can either say that there\'s nothing wrong with a smile on your face, or you can pour your heart out on the girl. Which do you think is more attractive?
Pour your heart out - if she\'s doing the \"What\'s wrong?\" line just as that courtesy gesture our culture has imprinted onto us with no meaning behind it, tough luck. If she genuinely cares, it\'ll show.
And it\'s even more important if you are in a relationship together.
Bah. My personal experience is different. The less I give, the more interest others show.
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Originally posted by Levski
And Dorbian, I would think that your kiss method would send the message that all you\'re after is the \"benefits\" part.
Not really because i am that kind of guy, so are some of my friends, we can even do that with other people\'s girlfriends as long as you keep your tongue in your mouth, and it doesn\'t last longer then 2 seconds :p
You can make it seem that it is friendly instead of loving friendly, the matter you say it and the matter you act afterwards have alot to do with it.
And there are always better ways to figure out how or what, i just know that this one is personally a good one ;)
I do know that alot of woman are as shy as alot of men, and they both don\'t have the guts to tell to eachother what they think about eachother.
If you take the chance, it can happen that he or she is saying yes, if you don\'t take the chance at all, you might never know.
And even if you hear a no, they are flattered and might even eventually like you more, as they will check you for things they do and don\'t like as in partner ( you always have the exeption that someone really doesn\'t like you for a relationship, nothing you can do about that i\'m afraid ).
all by all it\'s really hard to see what people like and what not, everybody is different and reacts differently in those situations.
All is good untill they tell you NO... You\'re to damn ugly.
-Dorbian
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I actually tried telling one of my best friends, that I was in love with her, the sad outcome was that she ignored me for a little over a half year... now we just pretend I never said it, and are still rather good friends.
So, I would say that one should be able to at least try to predict how the other would react to such a \"statement\" I think you could call it... but then again, not all girls are like her ;)
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Your friend sounds bloody cool. If I knew her I\'d tell her I loved her :P
But no, few girls are like that, atlesat through the teenage years...most overreact
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since aparrently my statment from the last forums didn't transfer I'll tell it to you now
we're friends again, I think she finally relized what it meant to have somone "love" her
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since aparrently my statment from the last forums didn't transfer I'll tell it to you now
we're friends again, I think she finally relized what it meant to have somone "love" her
That's just the thing, love means a lot of different things. Even when it means the same thing to different people, it can mean something different.
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Even when it means the same thing to different people, it can mean something different.
I haven't read anything else in this thread because the title scares me...but I found this sentence to be amazing. Couldn't help but comment.
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Even when it means the same thing to different people, it can mean something different.
I haven't read anything else in this thread because the title scares me...but I found this sentence to be amazing. Couldn't help but comment.
??? Explain yourself.
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I seem to be trying really hard to find love :love: . Then when I think I have, it blows up in my face :'( . Love has not done me any good :thumbdown: .
Mmmm but at least I keep trying. *sighs*
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psssst, it's because it doesn't exist :P
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Oh well it does...it only just tries hard to hide itself :D
It's done me something very good, but it took a while to get there :)
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LAST POST EVER :'(
My computer is just to old, and the game refuses to run smoothly but before I go, I shal leave on a depressing note.
What if you found out that everything bad in sombodies elses life is only able to be connected to you? What if by just living you are a pox to the person you love and chearish?
Am I one such person I do believe so, so I lay this at her feet and gave her the burden of deciding.
Whatever she chooses she'll be in my prayers( yes, I used a religous thing but it's my last post so I care very little aboout you banning me :ban:) till I die
That is aall the lost, the lovable, and ever so annoying
Nightstalian.
Ps. Goodbye, You have something special so keep going. and lastly a good comun.
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We're not going to ban anyone for mentioning religion... That would be very silly :}
Good luck with your endeavors, Nightstalian. I hope everything works out for the best.
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What if you found out that everything bad in sombodies elses life is only able to be connected to you? What if by just living you are a pox to the person you love and chearish?
I'd probably kick myself in the balls then yell at myself to grow up and get some perspective.
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Some feelings are inconvenient.
Lord, i gotta put that in my Sig...
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you gain some you loose some
out of girlfriend error. find new girlfriend.
++++redo from start++++
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Finally, read through the bloody thing. Now, onto my input.
First of, I am absolutely amazed by how much you remind me of myself when I was younger and (more) naive. A lot of the same crap happened to me that happened to you. I liked a girl, I tried professing my feelings, got kicked in the head while trying to jump ladders. Turns out, she only saw me as a friend, but the guy a year ahead of me who smoke and drank was seen in a different light. Eventually, I started getting the feeling that she felt uncomfortable being around me, so I slowly cut off contact with her as much as I could. I saw this as an attempt to try to make her life better, and hoped some day I could feel nothing for her in order to cause her no more discomfort.
Anyways... yeah, I grew up (somewhat) since then. I realize now it was nothing but a stupid crush, and I bet you will come to that eventually. And about your post saying that we all are biased in thinking that love hardly ever exists in the teen years, I give you this to think on. If someone is saying this, they are probably past their teen years. They have probably gone through this crap already. I've heard of a few examples of people growing up and marrying their high school sweetheart, but this is rare.
Second, you seem way too idealistic. She was an angel? You knew her better than anyone? This all sounds like lined from a fairy tale to me. I used to be a romantic too, but then I realized that there is no place in the world for one. I’m not trying to insult you or make you feel bad. I am trying to help save you from a lot of self inflicted misery that I went through. The world is a dark, shallow place, and maintaining your current outlook on life will ultimately lead to a lot of disappointment.
For the one who said men and women are pretty much the same (can’t remember who said that, or where) you are mostly correct. Males and females are very similar biologically, with small differences in muscle strength along with primary/secondary sex characteristics. The big difference comes from the gender roles established in our various societies. In US society, men are expected to repress emotion, not wince at pain, be confrontationally and emotionally unavailable, and energetically seek out sex. I doubt any would question the final point, in part by the fact that male virginity carries a large negative stigma along with it, while usually female virginity is praised. Females on the other hand, are expected to devote great energy to their physical appearance, be emotionally available, and pretend to be innocent and morally superior. This last part causes females to say that they look primarily for aspects besides appearance, such as humor, intelligence, empathy, etc., when looking for a boyfriend/lover/spouse. This however is false, as females are just as shallow as men. I recall one study in which subjects were put into a speed dating setting, given a minute to meet a person, then pulled aside and interviewed by the psychologists. When asked what the subjects (both males and females) first noticed in their dates, all but a handful said physical appearance. So, where does this leave US society? We are left with a society that expects men to be a#####es, and females to be hypocrites. I know I will likely get a lot of angry posts because of the previous statements, so let me tell you a story to reinforce my statement. When I was in high school, one time this guy I know suggested that I kill myself. His girlfriend was right next to him, and could hear it perfectly, and even scolded him for it. Even so, Such a suggestion, jokingly or not, is a horrible thing to do. Did the girlfriend leave him because of this display of incredible insensitivity? No. They stayed together. People don’t give a d### about kindness or personality. If they did, why would the less attractive nerdier people in high school who are kind, humorous, intelligent, and all that crap be constantly shot down, while the alcoholic, smoker jocks that are cruel and insensitive get all the girls?
Now, NS, (nightstalian) mind if I call you NS? Great. In your posts, you spoke quite loftily about this girl, describing her as angelic even. In my opinion, this might have been part of your downfall. For one, you put her up on a pedestal, placing her high above you. If you told her any of these things, she may have begun to get the feeling that she deserved all those compliments, and therefore agreed that she was better than you. If she thought she was this angelic picture of beauty, and you were so beneath her, why should she go out with you? If she is so wonderful she could hook herself a fish much bigger than you, so why settle for you? In my opinion, you might have made yourself too available. Humans seem to naturally seek out the things that are more difficult to obtain, probably thinking the grass is greener on the other side or some similar mentality.
There is another thing concerning your lofty descriptions. If you said those things to her, without ever dating her or anything, you may have creeped her out a bit. If someone suddenly walked up to you and professed their undying love for you, you would probably be taken back by it. This is just speculation though, so I could be wrong.
I hope that some of this may be able to help you in some way NS. I doubt it will help your current situation, but perhaps future endeavors. Me? I’ve chosen to be single. Dating seems like too much of a headache from what I’ve heard
BTW: I’ve never seen that Ladder Theory before. Thanks for posting it.
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I rarely post without reading the whole thread, but i have to leave for work... I'll likely read the rest when i get home & post more... but the last post regarding gender roles & stereotypes reminded me of a study about infidelity that found when asked about cheating there was a much greater % of males who said they did, and virtually no females...
The conclusion of this study:
It was determined that men are statistically far more likely to ADMIT when they cheated.
i'll add more later, but that bit of trivia fascinated me...
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People don’t give a d### about kindness or personality. If they did, why would the less attractive nerdier people in high school who are kind, humorous, intelligent, and all that crap be constantly shot down, while the alcoholic, smoker jocks that are cruel and insensitive get all the girls?
I think it's something called the frog prince syndrome.
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The cure to all this is simple.... Money.
Money buys everything.
A girl who can be rated a 10 usually won't go out with a guy whose a 4.
And visa-versa, unless drunk or desperate lol. :o , yes i said it, i know, but it's true lol.
Money though, will make up for such a gap.
Is it philosophical, ethical, or moral?
No...
But sadly, it's the truth about the human race.
Money drives certain people, i hate it, but it needs to be said.
If you really want this girl, pull a Bill gates, and buy her lol.
By the way, girls who can be bought.... usually arn't the best, so read the warning label carefully and decide the risks/advantages before you purchase. :woot:
lol
~~Datruth
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Not all women are the same. :thumbdown:
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Been there. Done that.
Killed it.
Refuse to ever bother trying again.
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Not all women are the same. :thumbdown:
You are probably right. There surely are exceptions to our generalizations. The problem is identifying who those exceptions are. The reason I don't like the fact that exceptions exists, is because then everyone thinks they are one of those exceptions. People like to think they are unique individuals and perhaps better than others. This means that many people like to believe they are exceptions to the rules, even if they aren't. If all those who believed themselves to be exceptions were, then there would be no normal, as nearly everyone would be an exception. Then, it would be an exception if someone believed they were normal. Therefore, all those who claim to be exceptions as well as those who are claimed to be exceptions are probably not.
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Alrighty...
Perhaps the real problem here is that he looked for relationship advice on an internet message board dedicated to online gaming.
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Lol this happened to me before. I found out the best way for me was to just go ahead and say it. I mean, lets face it, you only live once. And It also stops you woundering or worrying about it. :thumbup:
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:'( the end of my friendship with her eamil.
*****=not real name hide her idendity.
To:*************@yahoo.com
Subjct:Friendship please read.
Dear ****** ******** ******,
I'm sorry if you read this before I could get you alone and talk with you.But you write letters and I type emails, so it is all good.
I'm telling you striaght out that our friendship is over. You can read the rest of this letter if you want, if you want reasons and it is not because I hate you.
I should have relized last year what type of person you are, seeing how you blamed me for all of your problems. I'm not saying I'm perfect far from it, because of Arogance and my annoying nature.
Anywho, it boils down to this your conceited, shallow, and you don't trust anyone but yourself; I was made a mat to long and now I'm standing up for myself, you were right to end our friendship last year, for the wrong reasons seeing how you cast me away for caring, trusting, and loving you as a friend should. I forgive you for that and of the pity friendship you decided to make, but listen I don't need your pity. So guess what you get your wish after all, I'll stop being your "friend", unfourtunatly there is no "Fairy-God-Mother" to cancel your wish, so your stuck with it wheather you are happy or sad is your problem.
To surmerize it all, you where to d@mn stupid, and immature to understand love. Two, you refused to trust me. Three, you could care less what happened to other people. Four, I was treated unjustly by you. Five, you took me for granted. Six, I couldn't stand it any longer.
You lost a friend, you lost his respect, you lost his trust. I don't hate you, and I don't think I feel anything for you either. I refuse to blame you for the problems in my life, though you did blamed me for yours. But, think of this as the offical I forgive you letter.
I'll say hi, and sit where I normaly do, but I stress again be prepared to be shut out of my life.
Sincerely,
Dillon Moore
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That's a horrible letter. What were you trying to accomplish? It seems like you were just trying to hurt her.
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That's a horrible letter. What were you trying to accomplish? It seems like you were just trying to hurt her.
Maybe revenge as she hurt him in the past?
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That's a horrible letter. What were you trying to accomplish? It seems like you were just trying to hurt her.
Maybe revenge as she hurt him in the past?
Yes, but what was he hoping to gain?
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The cure to all this is simple.... Money.
Money buys everything.
A girl who can be rated a 10 usually won't go out with a guy whose a 4.
Money though, will make up for such a gap.
~~Datruth
Are you flippin kidding me? Sorry maybe for some people money is everything (but they are most likely misrable), but I know different, and I can't be ignorant enough to believe I am the only girl out there who couldn't give a rats ass about cash.
Maybe the "Rated 10" girl isn't all she is cut out to be. Sure she is pretty, but does she have a brian to go with those looks? Most of them don't because they don't have to. If they do have a solid head on their shoulders, then I find they are successful in life and don't need a man with money but a man with a romantic and sensitive qualities instead. Basically a man who will step up to the plate and be a good father to the family he will have with her in the future and a good husband to her.
The "Rated 4" boy obviously only wants her for a nice roll in the sack from the way you wrote it. Well that my friend gets boring after awhile, no matter how good you are. There isn't enough money in the world to change it. Why does "rated 4" guy need super model chick anyway? Isn't it supposed to be about love and if you can stand to be together for the rest of your lives? You know that thing were people make each other complete and they love each other unconditionally. There you have it, another thing money can't buy.
@nightstalian That letter shows how hurt you are. Nothing more and nothing less. You showed her one very negitive message. When the going becomes rough, you will quit on her. How did it get from this ......
since aparrently my statment from the last forums didn't transfer I'll tell it to you now
we're friends again, I think she finally relized what it meant to have somone "love" her
to the I will not be your "friend" anymore anyway? I mean are you trying to be with her in the BF/GF sense? Plain and simple, if you don't like the way she treats you, then move on. It may hurt at first but in the end saves alot of heart ache. Trying to change people is an endless and energy sucking battle. One you won't win.
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I totally Agree with you Zorbels, apart from one sentance, which had a Crucial spelling mistake.
but does she have a brian to go with those looks?
;D
sorry I had to bring that up. :P
I believe that people shouldn't just go with someone as zorbels said 'For a roll in the sack'.
The only only thing that can bring love is not money, or looks, its the heart, and love it's self.
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I totally Agree with you Zorbels, apart from one sentance, which had a Crucial spelling mistake.
but does she have a brian to go with those looks?
LMAO .... That's what I get for making posts while in a rush to make it for work. Oh well, it is to funny to correct. ;) You got what I meant anyway.
/me makes note to go to the store after work and purchase "brian" :P
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Frankly, that letter was one of the most childish expressions of pain that I've seen in a long time. I'm surprised that anyone actual says things like that to anyone else.
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I for one applaud nightstalian. At least now he is sticking up for himself and not letting that girl walk all over him.
Phinehas: you say the letter was childish. He could have done a lot of more immature crap, like giving her the silent treatment for a week, or spread dirty gossip about her, or whenever she walked by, pretend to cough and say "whore!". And I know this may be a bit of a stretch (ok, a tremendous stretch) but the declaration of independence created by the United State’s founding fathers was somewhat similar. They listed the wrongs committed against them, and declared that they would cut themselves off from England. so, were the founders of the United States immature? Alright, I admit this is just a random tangent that has little to do with this, and in fact all this conversation about the letter seems irrelevant to the original topic. :offtopic:
Zorbels et alii: you say that women do not pay attention to money, and claim yourself to be different. You claim that love is formed on something deeper than superficiality and trivial baubles. I suppose I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. But for those who doubt those beliefs and believe humans are not that righteous and good, I will look up a quote from a psychology textbook I own (Psychology 6th edition by David G. Myers (yeah yeah, it isn't the latest edition, but it has pretty much the same info and is a hellavalot cheaper)).
(After a long time scouring the book) crap... I can't find the specific quote. I'll try looking for it again later to find it. I do remember the gist of it though. It basically said that males are attracted to females who appear youthful and healthy, while females are attracted to males who are more mature (older) yet healthy, dominant (assertive, type A personalities), and affluent (powerful). Now affluence can take many forms, such as wide social networks and connections, charismatic ability to sway others, physical prowess, or money. So there could be some element of truth to the idea that a women's affections could be bought.
Now, don't go thinking my page turning was fruitless, I did find a nifty section that has some good info. (For those of you who would feel inclined to check the book, it starts on page 677). The section is on what brings about attraction, both friendly and romantic.
1) Proximity: geographic closeness. If you live in the same area, go to the same classes, ect. You have more chances for repeated exposure to one another. Richard Moreland and Scott Beach did an experiment in 1992 showed this by having 4 equally attractive females sit in for 0, 5, 10, or 15 class sessions in a 200 student class. At the end of the experiment, students were shown slides of the females, and the students were asked to rate their attractiveness. The ones who had been seen most were ranked highest. This is an example of something called the mere exposure effect[/i].
2) Physical attractiveness: yeah, people are shallow. Now for a quote so people won't yell at me for interpreting it in a cynical manner.
“In one study, Elaine Hatfield and her co-workers (Walster & others, 1966) randomly matched new University of Minnesota students for a Welcome Week dance. Before the dance, each took a battery of personality and aptitude tests. On the night of the blind date, the couples danced and talked for more than two hours and then took a brief intermission to rate their dates. What determined whether they liked each other? So far as the researchers could determine, only one thing mattered: Physical attractiveness (which had been rated by the researchers beforehand). Both the men and the women liked good-looking dates the best. Although women are more likely than men to say that another’s looks don’t affect them, a man’s looks do affect women’s behavior (Feingold, 1990; Sprecher, 1989; Woll, 1986).”
3) Similarity: opposites repel. “Friends and couples are far more likely to share common attitudes, beliefs, and interests (and, for that matter, age, religion, race, education, intelligence, smoking behavior, and economic status) than are randomly paired people” (p. 680)
Well, there you have it. There is a section following that that has information about the psychology of love. I may ad on some to this post later.
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You can stand up for yourself without being a jerk.
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Not sure who that was directed at Zanzi, or just a comment on the letter in general?
Suzuka, I didn't read your whole post, because it was too long and I lost interest after the first paragraph or so. (brutally honest, ain't I? :P)
Based on your first paragraph I would have to say you're right, there were worse things that he could have done. I suppose my standards of behaviour are simply higher.
And as for the thing about the Declaration, yes, that was totally random and not applicable to the present situation in any way shape or form. :P
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It was a response to someone's comment that was along the lines of "At least he's sticking up for himself now".
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Ah. In that case I agree completely. We need to be careful, too much of this agreeing stuff could be unhealthy for our mutual dislike/apathy. :P
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People agree with me on most things. They just don't realize it at first.
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People agree with me on most things. They just don't realize it at first.
I'm trying to concentrate on a witty comeback, but I'm distracted by the fact that there are two spaces between your sentences.
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I didn't read your whole post, because it was too long and I lost interest after the first paragraph or so.
I suppose I'll save myself the hassel and not bother posting any suplemental quotes or information.