PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Pip on March 10, 2006, 04:32:35 pm
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Ok hear goes.
How many do we have, do they work on a roster system, or pop in and out when they feel like it ?
Why is it to get a GM normally in game you have to go on IRC to find them ?
The only time you see more than two is when there are new features being added, or a Role Play drama going on.
At the moment there are three regular GMs on line, who do their very best to keep things running smoothly. Hats off to those three.
But the question is why should only three do this , when there are more who could be on line ?
To be honest most of the time there is no GM on line at all why ?
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Well, I\'m not a GM, but some answers to this questions are obvious:
To be honest most of the time there is no GM on line at all
Yes, that is problem, but GMs are -to some extent- only \"normal\" players, too, just like you and me. I can understand that a GM (like every other PS player) cannot be online several hours every day, even if that is what we want.
A possible way to solve that problem would be to have more GMs, this increases the possibility that at least one of the GMs is online when you need one.
do they work on a roster system, or pop in and out when they feel like it ?
I guess the later one is the case.
An exception may be the times when GM-organised RP events take place.
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Originally posted by Pip
Ok hear goes.
How many do we have, do they work on a roster system,
9. Uyaem, Kerol, Hafael, Cha0s, Bakuun, Cerejha, Frostmorn, Noxide and myself.
Originally posted by Pip
or pop in and out when they feel like it ?
more or less whenever we can.
Originally posted by Pip
Why is it to get a GM normally in game you have to go on IRC to find them ?
normally there is always one online.
Originally posted by Pip
The only time you see more than two is when there are new features being added, or a Role Play drama going on.
not true... i can post guild chat to prove it.
Originally posted by Pip
At the moment there are three regular GMs on line, who do their very best to keep things running smoothly. Hats off to those three.
thanks, we aim to please.
Originally posted by Pip
To be honest most of the time there is no GM on line at all why ?
believe it or not we have lives (in most cases at least.)
want to tell us who these marvelous three are and we can clap them on the back blah blah.
also you complain about having to join IRC to find one of us... just think of it as your way of dialing 999 ;)
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I believe there are 8 GMs now. Around that number anyhow. Should become a bit more over time but you can\'t just pick them of the streets ofcourse as it has to be a suitable person.
Anyhow the first priority of a GM is finding bugs and making sure the devs know about it and helping us and enforcing rules second and roleplaying events third even if not even lower ;)
So you can imagine that with reorganizing the GM structure and changes in what GMs may do and what not they are busy a lot of the time. But when new things are implemented thats when most bugs appear so thats when they try to be online as much as possible.
*edit*
K 9 GMs then ;). or is it 10 already? I don\'t see Tarel in your list yet.
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m\'yeh forgot him... 10.
on the online front... i drop in a few times everyday, ill check the petition list, check the names ingame... anything i can deal with i\'ll sort out. maybe have a quick skim around the world... if theres nothing that needs doing i\'ll then logout.
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IRC is just the easiest and quickest way of reaching a GM. If something doesn\'t require an immediate right-now-can\'t-wait action, posting something on the forums works just as well.
As everyone else highlighted, GMs too have lives (and often many tasks they are trying to balance) so it\'s not like they were chosen for their amount of free time and willingness to serve during it ;) Every one of us pops in from time to time to check petitions, observe the Help channel, run through the list of online names, and if things are well, pop back out after a few minutes. There are times when we stick around for hours. It just depends. Though rest assured that if something needs to be taken care of, it will be. We\'re really sorry that we can\'t be around during every conflict between players right now, but that is why you have petitions, too.
It would be really nice to have at least one or two GM members online all the time, but we\'re a small team at the moment so this is just very hard. Once there will be more of us, you\'ll see it :)
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Yes, i am number 10 in the luist of the GM\'s.
I dedicate 2-6 hours a day as GM to planeshift.
When i am not working fulltime, then i am together with my wife and little girl or am i online in Planeshift.
So don\'t have much spare time for myself.
But i feel it\'s worth it for Planeshift.
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Originally posted by Thoronador
Yes, that is problem, but GMs are -to some extent- only \"normal\" players, too, just like you and me. I can understand that a GM (like every other PS player) cannot be online several hours every day, even if that is what we want.
A possible way to solve that problem would be to have more GMs, this increases the possibility that at least one of the GMs is online when you need one.
If they are in IRC (and most of the time there are more than three) gassing about nothing in particular, they could be in game being useful.
Originally posted by Drey
want to tell us who these marvelous three are and we can clap them on the back blah blah.
also you complain about having to join IRC to find one of us... just think of it as your way of dialing 999 ;)
If the GM guild keeps a log of who is online when; you will know from the records who the three most online are.
As for calling on IRC in case of an emergency.... I thought you were GAME Masters NOT IRC Masters
Originally posted by Karyuu
IRC is just the easiest and quickest way of reaching a GM. If something doesn\'t require an immediate right-now-can\'t-wait action, posting something on the forums works just as well.
As everyone else highlighted, GMs too have lives
And I don\'t dispute that, what I do not understand is why so many GMs can be in IRC so much but spend very little time in game by comparison.
Originally posted by Tarel
I dedicate 2-6 hours a day as GM to planeshift.
And my hat is off to you.
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Quoted in reverse order!
Originally posted by Pip
Originally posted by Tarel
I dedicate 2-6 hours a day as GM to planeshift.
And my hat is off to you.
There are, as stated earlier in this thread, 10 GMs. Assuming all of them are ingame 2-6 hours everyday, which you considering a good amount, that would be a total coverage of 20-60hours. That would mean in a best case seneario you could expect to see 1-2 GMs at any time of the day. How ever, that\'s just not realistic.
Originally posted by Pip
Originally posted by Thoronador
Yes, that is problem, but GMs are -to some extent- only \"normal\" players, too, just like you and me. I can understand that a GM (like every other PS player) cannot be online several hours every day, even if that is what we want.
A possible way to solve that problem would be to have more GMs, this increases the possibility that at least one of the GMs is online when you need one.
GMs are only human, so they have to sleep occasionally. Plus, they also have families, who may want to do things on the weekend, or have jobs/education that limit their hours. Add in time zones, and you will be lucky to know when to expect a GM ingame.
Originally posted by Pip
If they are in IRC (and most of the time there are more than three) gassing about nothing in particular, they could be in game being useful.
If the GM guild keeps a log of who is online when; you will know from the records who the three most online are.
As for calling on IRC in case of an emergency.... I thought you were GAME Masters NOT IRC Masters
And I don\'t dispute that, what I do not understand is why so many GMs can be in IRC so much but spend very little time in game by comparison.
as Karyuu said:
Originally posted by Karyuu
IRC is just the easiest and quickest way of reaching a GM. If something doesn\'t require an immediate right-now-can\'t-wait action, posting something on the forums works just as well.
As everyone else highlighted, GMs too have lives
For myself, and I guess most other Devs, being ingame just isn\'t an option. We are too busy working on things behind the scenes, and if something needs testing it is much easier to test this in our own way without players seeing us. That said, it is much easier to log into Irc, and even without being ingame for around a month now, I have constently been on irc. Add to this the \"cost\" of running the game, as opposed to just a chat program.
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Pip, I\'m really not sure what to make of your posts and thread in general. Is there a specific complaint you\'d like to raise, or does the presence of a Game Master make your gaming experience better, or...?
Originally posted by Pip
If they are in IRC (and most of the time there are more than three) gassing about nothing in particular, they could be in game being useful.
That\'s a very rude statement... GMs certainly don\'t talk about \"nothing in particular\" in the #planeshift channel, and if you have no idea what goes on in the GM channel (and you absolutely don\'t), stay away from assumptions.. No one can direct their attention to IRC or the game all the time, and though there will always be some talk about nothing in particular, more often than not when something is said, it\'s a serious matter. This is not #planeshift. When someone can be in-game, they will be in-game. That is why they were made Game Masters in the first place - it\'s not for some sort of \"prestige\" or title. We have a job, and we know it needs doing.
If the GM guild keeps a log of who is online when; you will know from the records who the three most online are.
We don\'t have such logs.
As for calling on IRC in case of an emergency.... I thought you were GAME Masters NOT IRC Masters
I\'m getting a really aggressive vibe from all this, and I honestly can\'t understand why. Isn\'t it understandable that we can\'t patrol the game all the time? We do it as much as possible. Trust me, no one is sitting around twiddling their thumbs.
[...] what I do not understand is why so many GMs can be in IRC so much but spend very little time in game by comparison.
They are not always at the keyboard on IRC either. As you are aware, many people often leave their clients running when they are off doing other things. So the GM channel is not full of people hanging around chatting their heads off about this and that - I\'ve no idea why you would think so. If someone is awake and can be around for more than just a few minutes, they are in-game. The only time someone would not be in PS but on IRC is when they have other things to take care of, that demand a bit more attention.
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Originally posted by Karyuu
Pip, I\'m really not sure what to make of your posts and thread in general. Is there a specific complaint you\'d like to raise, or does the presence of a Game Master make your gaming experience better, or...?
I hope I understand:
There are times when people need a GM, and no one is online. This is a fact, I don\'t rate it hereby, I only state it.
So what may happen in the worst cases during this time?
- Some player may be stuck or crashes while logging in, and the character would need to be moved: There is a thread in the forum if one can\'t log in, or the possibility to write a petition, log off afterwards, and hope that the case is solved when returning.
- Some players may misbehave and threaten other players: Make a petition, and use \"/report Playername\" (I was recently told that it had been fixed during the last months).
More presence, and maybe a \"schedule\", may reduce the times when no GM at all is online.
__
And - a second issue for Pip seems to be, that specific GMs are not afraid to tell people in IRC that they prefer to play different games instead of being in PlaneShift, even that they are \"not interested in PS at the moment\".
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Thanks, LigH :)
I don\'t think there is anything wrong with playing other games, even when you are a GM. As long as there are other GMs available, does it matter if one or two do other things for a while? Will it upset people if I say \"I have no interest in being in-game at the moment, I want to work on art\"? Or \"I\'m going to relax in Ryzom for a bit\"? We do our best, but we don\'t have strict contracts and I\'m happy about that - organizing a schedule is impossible, because as people know, everything done for PlaneShift is done during free time - and there is no way to estimate when you will have that free time, daily, or weekly, or monthly.
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hmmm this might come as a shock but agree with Karyuu. I feel GMs are some of the best people who help people and although I don\'t know this for sure of all (other times I guess) but the ones I know I know do a lot.
GMs don\'t get paid and often have to give up actually doing anything in PS with a character. Unless I hear otherwise I feel we should be proud to have such dedicated people.
(Karyuu stop smirking ;))
As I said before more GMs is a solution that is being worked on as you can see with Tarel just joining, but they have to be active people that know enough about PS and are willing to be GM instead of player and have the right attitue of helping. Finding such people takes some time if you want to do it wel.
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Originally posted by Pip
If they are in IRC (and most of the time there are more than three) gassing about nothing in particular, they could be in game being useful.
infact whole days sometimes go by when no more than a few lines are said O.o
[...] what I do not understand is why so many GMs can be in IRC so much but spend very little time in game by comparison.
like kary said... irc just lives in the background, and many of us are not in the habbit of turning our computer off. im real sorry that im not glued to the chair with ps permanenlty open as you seem to wish.
and gag,
And - a second issue for Pip seems to be, that specific GMs are not afraid to tell people in IRC that they prefer to play different games instead of being in PlaneShift, even that they are \"not interested in PS at the moment\".
if thats in anyway aimed at me... i always make time for ps, if i couldnt or didnt want to why would i be a GM? in fact some times im logged on to both at the same time >.>
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Just before Pip went to bed with a smile still on her face i asked her what she was getting at.
The answer was simple, we seam to have a lack of GMs.
She wonders why? so do I.
She is not complaining or moaning just asking.
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Guys, I can\'t believe that this needs to be explained to you yet another time.
If you need a list of reasons why the last GM team was restructured, do say so. But I think most of us are well aware that it wasn\'t working well - there were a ton of complaints, people didn\'t know how to react to problems, and the basic structure of the team was falling apart. Before frustration from both sides reached breaking point, Talad decided to \"fire\" everyone and start the \"hiring\" process again - judging every new application himself through an hour-long interview that would show him exactly how capable each and every applicant was, and is. The GM team fell to a number of 10 people, and we were in a testing stage - we needed to see how well we would work with each other, how well we could help with organization, how well we could do our jobs - help players - and basically do things right this time around. The number was small because we needed to have a select group of people Talad could easily look over, guide, and give aid to as we were all learning about each other.
Now we are a lot closer to letting the team grow, but not just yet. We still have some bumps that need smoothing out before new people can come in and confuse things a little more.
Frankly I am unsure what this whole \"cryptic smile\" business is about - and you and Pip both are being really weird lately, honestly... But I thought that after explaining what happened to the GM team over and over and over, people would understand? We are still a work in progress, the team. So yes there is a small number of us, but that will change in time, probably in a few weeks.
Is there something I\'m just not understand about this thread...?
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I think it\'s just that from the player\'s point of view, GMs are mysterious... Get to the other side of the coin, and it\'s really not that mysterious. :P
GMs are (and after next update should be more often) invisible often and just \"around\". They\'re not supposed to jump to your whim, but a GM or a dev is usually around within a reasonable amount of time (see: not necisarily in 3 seconds) to deal with most issues. Yes, you may have to goto IRC, but like it or not that\'s the primary real-time communication method on the Internet, and our main contact method aside from here.
Yes, we don\'t really have an optimal amount of GMs for the current average number of players online. They\'ll add more at some point, but it\'s not a big deal. We have enough for now.
I would also like to point out, that some players are calling for GMs when they shouldn\'t need to. GMs may run events from time to time, but it is not their job to regulate how anyone decides to play the game. Please don\'t bother the GMs (or devs) with RP matters unless you\'re requesting participation. They\'re police, not babysitters.
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Originally posted by DaveG
I think it\'s just that from the player\'s point of view, GMs are mysterious... Get to the other side of the coin, and it\'s really not that mysterious. :P
GMs are (and after next update should be more often) invisible often and just \"around\". They\'re not supposed to jump to your whim, but a GM or a dev is usually around within a reasonable amount of time (see: not necisarily in 3 seconds) to deal with most issues. Yes, you may have to goto IRC, but like it or not that\'s the primary real-time communication method on the Internet, and our main contact method aside from here.
I would also like to point out, that some players are calling for GMs when they shouldn\'t need to. GMs may run events from time to time, but it is not their job to regulate how anyone decides to play the game. Please don\'t bother the GMs (or devs) with RP matters unless you\'re requesting participation. They\'re police, not babysitters.
1) As I once was a new player, yes that is indeed the case ( or it was for me anyway) The name alone is something to think about. \"game MASTER\" Oh my gosh this person must be like super 1337 or something. :P But you quickly learn that they are merely players like you that just have a few more abilities, to settle conflicts and ocasionally turn players into Groffels on Halloween. :P
2) As much as I despise IRC, Dave is right, it is the simplest, and quickest way for people to have \"real-time\" communication.
3) Drat, I was really hoping you could watch my kids for me this weekend Dave, I wanted to go out. Oh well, maybe Drey or Miss K will do it.
EDIT: spelling, what else is new.
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if thats in anyway aimed at me...
I may have aimed, but didn\'t wield any weapon. I perfectly understand not being in the mood for PS for some duration.
I know that you do a good job as GM and hope that you are there more often. But I know it is your decision when.
Also I agree that a few more GMs could help to cover the day better; but ... while we are at it: I myself would not even want to become one. At least not as long as I neither know nor agree completely to the terms under which I would have to work.
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Don\'t forget Game Masters make it in its free time, for free.
We have family, work, duties and other things to do in Real Life.
And what Drey said, we like to play other games too. ;)
By the way, have an IRC client runing in background, is also more tolerable, and easy, during work than a game.
On the other hand being in IRC, if not being able to be always ingame we can bring up to date everything that are happening in game, by the conversation between other GM\'s and players, saving us thus time in the search of some information that could be needed, in the next time we will be in game. :)
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Speaking of IRC master... ;P
Anyhow, PlaneShift is a resource hungry program. If there was a way to keep it open in the background and notify using some kind of status icon when a petition was submitted or so, I\'m sure the GMs would be able to be \"on-call\" more.
As it is, being \"in game\" pretty much means you can\'t do anything else. With IRC, this is not the case, so people can leave that open, go do other stuff, and drop in if someone calls.
There is a channel set up for the sole purpose of finding a GM, not that many of the current GMs seem to use it :\\
If you need a GM, you should first use the petition system. If there aren\'t any GMs online, you can try the channel made for the purpose of flagging down a GM: #planeshift-gmtalk on irc.freenode.net (instructions on connecting to IRC are here (http://www.planeshift.it/community_irc.htm))
Even though I\'m no longer technically a GM, I found your comment about \"gassing about nothing\" more than a bit rude. I\'m wondering where you get your \"information\" about what goes on in #planeshift-gms. Last time I was there, it was a bit hectic but, get this, everyone was talking about GMing! :O
So, GMs are gassing about... GMing? GMing is nothing? :P
josePhoenix