PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Easton on March 13, 2006, 02:35:12 am
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Greetings fellow citizens of Yliakum!
I would like to inform you all of an organization that is made up of several guilds of Yliakum. This organization has brought together some great minds over the past six months to take on an even greater task: To provide a common meeting ground for all of the guilds of Yliakum for the discussion of all of the issues that guilds and their members may be facing in these unprecedented times. Men and Women of all races, i present to you the Sworn Council of Yliakum!
The SCoY was originally thought up by two guild leaders who felt the need for a \"guild of guilds\" or an inter-guild coalition in Yliakum; A council that could unite guilds of all size, stature, experience, and wealth to take on the problems of Yliakum with a united force as opposed to countless counfused and misinformed souls. This council would provide a means for inter-guild communication. Conflicts could be solved, transactions could be made, knowledge could be shared.. the possibilites were endless. So they organized their thoughts and goals into a charter that defined the basic elements of the SCoY.
At first just a few guilds were a part of this project. Things started off slowly as Yliakum\'s climate changed persistently. Then the growth of the council exploded. Issues within the council were quickly being solved, decisions were made, and most importantly, more guilds became members. Over the past 6 months, the council has grown in size considerably. Now, with the official public notification of the SCoY\'s existence, we see a chance for this council to realize its full potential- a true place for minds of different races, religions, and ideas, to come together and discuss any issue that they may be facing.
Fellow citizens of Yliakum, we wish to unite our minds for the general enhancement of our members. From lawful good, to chaotic evil, we extend our invitation to each guild. Come join the Sworn Council of Yliakum and be apart of the growing movement to allow for a diplomatic dialogue between every guild in Yliakum.
Please visit our Embassy (website) at: http://ugo.sinet.it/scoy
We have worked hard to provide the most information for you along with a means to contact the members of the council personally. We also would like to add that, even though many people seem to think otherwise, we are in NO WAY A GOVERNMENT OF ANY SORT. Again, we DO NOT GOVERN ANYONE OTHER THAN THE MEMBER GUILDS WHO BOTH CHOSE TO JOIN AND ARE AN ACTIVE PART WITHIN THE COUNCIL. Each guild has the same amount of power as the next. With that said, on behalf of the Sworn Council of Yliakum:
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
President-elect of the Sworn Council of Yliakum
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Ahh its good to see an old friend. I have been reading all of your info and it takes me back a year ago when the URPS had plenty of active guilds around. We have talked before about this idea.. it was so long ago I thought you had given up the idea. I enjoy these types of initiatives within the Community. But which guilds are currently onboard with this idea? For me personally, it wasnt a matter of motivation for myself but a lack of finding active members.. not that the URPS did not have its share.. but it would be more like half the guilds active within and quite difficult to keep everything organized. You are already one step ahead of the game with an RP name for the organization and an RP purpose.
To make a long post short, I personally am in. Ill try to assist you with anything you need. The only thing I didnt like so much was the Office of the President/Secretary and the House of Commons becuase of how overused those terms are but thats a small issue. I will be getting in touch with you Easton.
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Nice to hear from you Valbrandr. Glad to see you around still.
As for your question.. we currently have these guilds:
The Defenders, The Protectors, The Dragon Council, Woiperdinger (spelling, sorry), Plakkem Hverrjanor, Way of the Hammer, and Ruby Regin.
I think its a good mix, but it could be better of course. We are looking for all kinds of guilds. Again, its wonderful to hear from you my friend. I hope to see you soon.
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
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I have made my thoughts on this well known in my Guild thread.
So this is not a new idea of yours as Valbrandr said. \"We have talked before about this idea.. it was so long ago I thought you had given up the idea.\"
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Originally posted by r.guppy
I have made my thoughts on this well known in my Guild thread.
So this is not a new idea of yours as Valbrandr said. \"We have talked before about this idea.. it was so long ago I thought you had given up the idea.\"
i do not see your point, my friend. i would like to quote my first post:
\"This organization has brought together some great minds over the past six months to take on an even greater task: To provide a common meeting ground for all of the guilds of Yliakum for the discussion of all of the issues that guilds and their members may be facing in these unprecedented times.\"
We are not hiding anything. Honestly, Janner, i wish your criticisms at least brought up issues that we need to deal with as a council, but they don\'t. You are mad that we didn\'t mention it a long time ago, but things must be tested, tested, tested and tested some more. That way when we finally go public, the guilds that join will be apart of an organized council, not something that is going to break down easily.
Again:
\"Fellow citizens of Yliakum, we wish to unite our minds for the general enhancement of our members. From lawful good, to chaotic evil, we extend our invitation to each guild. Come join the Sworn Council of Yliakum and be apart of the growing movement to allow for a diplomatic dialogue between every guild in Yliakum.\"
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
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Ok here is something else to think about, the recent unrest of last night was announced it was to take place where and when.. where were the town Militiia ?
Perfect chance for them to do there thing, to keep the peace, where were they ?
Or was it as i think [ me alone thinks ] there was a conflict of interest, in that leaders support both SCoY and Militia.
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Are you hinting the SCoY wanted chaos Janner? If not I don\'t see what the conflict of interest would be as the event wasn\'t organized by SCoY at all eventhough many of us were there to see what was happening ofcourse.
If we had seen a way to have prevented the chaos we would have, but there were simply to many people and we aren\'t GMs with some kind of mute power.
However I myself have been talking with people to see how this chaos could be prevented in the future. People on both \"sides\". And refering to the roleplaying sides here as I feel we shouldn\'t take everything so seriously.
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Also, Janner, if you knew about the Militia, you would know that it is only deployed against NPC threats.
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
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Originally posted by Easton
Also, Janner, if you knew about the Militia, you would know that it is only deployed against NPC threats.
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
Purpose
The Yliakum Militia is a voluntary armed force sworn to defend the freedom of Yliakum and its citizens in times of need only. We welcome anyone who is willing to follow orders for the greater good and shares our beliefs. We do not tolerate abuse of authority and will only call upon the might of the militia when it is absolutely necessary.
No mention of NPC there unless i am blind.
The Yliakum Militia do not tolerate abuse of authority, surely that is a good reason for them to have been there.
Mission Statement
The Sworn Council of Yliakum Charter
Why?
To ensure the well-being of all in Yliakum by learning about and preventing any conflicts from destroying the peace that we all hold dear.
So the aim of both groups is to prevent exactly the kind of events of last night.
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Indeed it would be a goal to prevent such a thing if possible hence the talking that is going on, but be realistic what exactly do you feel we should have done then that wouldn\'t have made things worse?
If we would have began screaming we would have only made things worse. We attempted to steer things back to roleplayingand many of us didn\'t even say anythin. As I said we aren\'t GMs. We are a group of people with a ROLEPLAYING goal.
We may use OOC means sometimes to compensate for the means that you have in RL and you don\'t have in Yliakum, but the mainfocus ofcourse is roleplaying. A
If people ignore the roleplaying there is little for us to do till after to prevent it from happening again if possible.
Also if a charter is made IC as for the goals ofcourse terms like NPC will not be used.
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Well, ask Ogu, the Deputy Chief of Militia, and he\'ll tell you that they only respond to attacks having to do with NPC characters. He has told me this several times. Also, the Chief of the Militia is Myysst, and he has nothing to do with the SCoY, so whatever it is you are implying is false.
Anyways, this thread is either for questions about the council or the Charter, or for criticism that applies to the council and its structure. I\'d say your comments are not exactly providing anything for the council. If you dislike the SCoY then, by all means, have nothing to do with us. But we still wish for each and every guild to at least consider it with open eyes and ears, something i think you have not done.
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
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Janner is unwell and will not be in game for a while. I will attempt to explain.
Janner is not implying that anything sinister is going on, only that there is a simple overlap of interests in the groups. Why have two groups with similar aims and goals with same core group members?
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Originally posted by Pip
Janner is unwell and will not be in game for a while. I will attempt to explain.
Janner is not implying that anything sinister is going on, only that there is a simple overlap of interests in the groups. Why have two groups with similar aims and goals with same core group members?
Pip,
SCoY is very different from the militia. The militia is to be used as a fighting force. SCoY is used to help make decisions that might effect the game as a whole. SCoY is made up of elite guilds in the game, on the other hand the militia is made up of just about anyone that wants to join.
You can view the militia page here (http://ugo.sinet.it/planeshift/index.php/Main/YliakumMilitia)
Please read that over,
Illori
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Elite guilds...? :P
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Originally posted by Karyuu
Elite guilds...? :P
Yes i consider it elite if you are selected and voted in.
Illori
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no no no no no...
Illori\'s guild is one of our newest member guilds, and she may have used the wrong words.
We do not consider ourselves \'elite\', and this council is not limited to so-called \"elite\" guilds. The council is open to every guild out there. End of story.
But the SCoY and the Militia are indeed completely different. One is a force for protection of Yilakum by NPC threats, and the other is a place in which all guilds can come and have equal turn to speak about issues that concern them. It is a diplomatic place.
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
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every guild that shares the goals of SCoY ofcourse ;)
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Originally posted by Pestilence
every guild that shares the goals of SCoY ofcourse ;)
not exactly true.. every guild must swear to comply with the councils decisions and rules, but that is it.
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
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Well Easton you know I will support you in any way I can my friend.. Good luck with everything.
Aranis
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Hmmm... this is kind of like a government... you may rival indeed the Octarchs themselves...
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Originally posted by Easton
We also would like to add that, even though many people seem to think otherwise, we are in NO WAY A GOVERNMENT OF ANY SORT. Again, we DO NOT GOVERN ANYONE OTHER THAN THE MEMBER GUILDS WHO BOTH CHOSE TO JOIN AND ARE AN ACTIVE PART WITHIN THE COUNCIL.
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
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I am not sure if I miss the right term, but somehow I would like to compare the SCoY with a \"trade union\":
a) in dialog with the workers,
b) sharing opinions between companies, and
c) sometimes in opposition to the employers.
This relation might be similar to the position of SCoY related to
b) member guilds,
a) their members and even the citizen in general, and
c) monarchs, octarchs, or other forms of (also wanna-be) government.
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Originally posted by Easton
Originally posted by Pestilence
every guild that shares the goals of SCoY ofcourse ;)
not exactly true.. every guild must swear to comply with the councils decisions and rules, but that is it.
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
K true enough only what is mentioned in the charter and the missiongoals one would have to agree with, but think most people would call those the SCoY\'s goals ;)
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I have some questions.
Concerning the recent upheavals of a pretender in out midst.
It is unclear from what I have heard and seen, who was made known to whom first. Did Xillix first approach SCoY? If she did how did she know of them? And if you are NOT GOVERNMENT as you say, why did she need your support? Are not the Vigesimi the support of the Octarch? What support was she asking for? Or did, as Janner was informed by one of its members, the SCoY summon[/b] Xillix to a meeting?
The event seems relevant since very few knew anything about SCoY before it. Perhaps that is significant.
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Originally posted by Easton
not exactly true.. every guild must swear to comply with the councils decisions and rules, but that is it.
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
So as long as a guild promises to comply to the councils decisions and rules, there in? They don\'t have to go through a voting process where they could be denied?
Still curious about this Guild of guilds? Who is the guild leader of the Guild of guilds by the way?
Respectfully,
Anfa [I will not be assimilated!]
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Originally posted by Pip
I have some questions.
It is unclear from what I have heard and seen, who was made known to whom first. Did Xillix first approach SCoY?
Xillix approached the SCoY, yes.
Pip asked:
If she did how did she know of them?
A lot of people knew about us. We weren\'t keeping it a secret anymore. We were working on a forum post to go public officially. Anyone who cared to look could find out about us very easily.
Pip asked:
And if you are NOT GOVERNMENT as you say, why did she need your support? Are not the Vigesimi the support of the Octarch? What support was she asking for?
Maybe she knew that we are made up of a large part of the guild population in Yliakum. Im not saying we represent everyone, or anything like that. She just knew that if we supported her, then her slide into power would be that much easier. As for the Vigesmi.. Yes, they are supposed to elect the octarch. Xillix was planning to do that the other way around. Hence our disapproval of what she was doing.
Pip asked:
Or did, as Janner was informed by one of its members, the SCoY summon[/b] Xillix to a meeting?
We did meet with Xillix in order to answer her inquiry aobut having the support of the SCoY. We sent a delegation to meet her and tell her our lack of support. It just so turned out that there were lots and lots of people there by the time Xillix arrived.. I just want to let it be known that we met in the place of her chosing.
@LigH- We are a council. The member guilds run it. Anyone who joins, then, runs it too. I think no matter what you may want to compare the SCoY to, there will always be differences. We are what we are. ;)
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
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Originally posted by Anfa
So as long as a guild promises to comply to the councils decisions and rules, there in? They don\'t have to go through a voting process where they could be denied?
Here are the requirements:
1. Taking an oath to follow the Charter and the Council\'s decisions even if they go against what that particular guild has voted for. (this requires reading the Charter of course, and accepting it fully. Any questions about the charter should be cleared up before membership is granted.)
2. Give a list of the two ambassadors who will be attending the meetings along with their email addresses.
3. Guild Alignment and number of members within the guild. (this is for information only. If a guild is uncomfortable with giving it\'s numbers, we simply ask for a rounded \'estimate\'. All of this info will be kept secret of course.)
Originally posted by Anfa
Still curious about this Guild of guilds? Who is the guild leader of the Guild of guilds by the way?
No one has any more power than the next. I was elected President, but that does not give me any more power at all. In fact, i only vote when there is a tie in the votes. So, depending on how you look at it, you could say that i have less power.
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
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Originally posted by Easton
Originally posted by Anfa
So as long as a guild promises to comply to the councils decisions and rules, there in? They don\'t have to go through a voting process where they could be denied?
Here are the requirements:
1. Taking an oath to follow the Charter and the Council\'s decisions even if they go against what that particular guild has voted for. (this requires reading the Charter of course, and accepting it fully. Any questions about the charter should be cleared up before membership is granted.)
2. Give a list of the two ambassadors who will be attending the meetings along with their email addresses.
3. Guild Alignment and number of members within the guild. (this is for information only. If a guild is uncomfortable with giving it\'s numbers, we simply ask for a rounded \'estimate\'. All of this info will be kept secret of course.)
So the answer is NO, there is no voting process where a guild could be denied entrance into the council? As long as they are willing to comply with the councils charter and decisions and supply the needed paperwork.
Well that is fair, glad to know there is no \"have to be friends with the other guilds\" to get in.
respectively
Anfa
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Of course.. what would be the point of having the same type of people being in a council?
All guilds are welcome!
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
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Originally posted by Easton
A lot of people knew about us. We weren\'t keeping it a secret anymore. We were working on a forum post to go public officially. Anyone who cared to look could find out about us very easily.
Yes, if they knew there was something to look for. You weren\'t keeping it secret but noone is allowed to talk about your meetings to anyone else.
Originally posted by Easton
Maybe she knew that we are made up of a large part of the guild population in Yliakum. Im not saying we represent everyone, or anything like that.
So who are the member guilds of SCoY? To be a large part, to me, suggests at least a third of the guilds of Yliakum. In one guild list alone there are about 20 guilds with a collective membership numbering around 350 or more. Considering that this list represents probably less than two thirds; can you say that your guilds represent more than 170 members? And if the guild representatives can not talk about the meetings how do the members know they are being faithfully represented?
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Originally posted by Pip
Yes, if they knew there was something to look for. You weren\'t keeping it secret but noone is allowed to talk about your meetings to anyone else.
Right. The contents of the meetings are for the members of the guilds only. That includes people who aren\'t at the meeting. For example, the Dragon Council ambassadors can relay any information they want to their guildmates. But they cannot give that information to anyone who is not a part of a guild that is in the council. Also, if you looked at my description you could see that i mention the SCoY. And if youasked me about it, i would have directed you to the site.
So who are the member guilds of SCoY? To be a large part, to me, suggests at least a third of the guilds of Yliakum. In one guild list alone there are about 20 guilds with a collective membership numbering around 350 or more. Considering that this list represents probably less than two thirds; can you say that your guilds represent more than 170 members?
Well, i have reason to believe that list may be a bit outdated. Milady, i feel you are being a slight bit rude, if you wouldn\'t mind using different words maybe.. Anyways, our member guilds are:
Member Guilds:
The Defenders, The Protectors, Woiperdinger, Ruby Reign, The Dragon Council, Way of the Hammer, along with 2 others that are in the process of joining, and one other that is about to begin that process.
And if the guild representatives can not talk about the meetings how do the members know they are being faithfully represented?
I already mentioned that above..
EDIT: I forgot to mention the guild Plakkem Hverrjanor :P Just getting a little hectic, sorry..
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
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Originally posted by Pip
Considering that this list represents probably less than two thirds; can you say that your guilds represent more than 170 members?
They did state at the meeting in the temple that they represent at least 200 active members.
Cheers
Anfa
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Originally posted by Easton
Well, i have reason to believe that list may be a bit outdated. Milady, i feel you are being a slight bit rude, if you wouldn\'t mind using different words maybe.. Anyways, our member guilds are:
Member Guilds:
The Defenders, The Protectors, Woiperdinger, Ruby Reign, The Dragon Council, Way of the Hammer, along with 2 others that are in the process of joining, and one other that is about to begin that process.
Rude?? Care to explain?
The list I refer to is up to date; here (http://www.guildlisting.com/). Only half the guilds represented by SCoY are on it however, and I am sure there are many more in Yliakum which have not put themselves on it. So maybe you should think again about how big SCoY is. If you presented yourselves in a different light you might get a more positive response.
Originally posted by Anfa
They did state at the meeting in the temple that they represent at least 200 active members.
Is that correct? Ruby Reign are about 20, Way of the Hammer 12, Dragon Council 30 which leaves 138 between the other 3.
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Originally posted by Pip
Rude?? Care to explain?
I feel that you are accusing of the same things that either don\'t make sense, or are simply misinterpretations of our Charter. I will continue to answer your every question, but i ask you to be a bit more polite. I have respect for your criticism and it seems you have no respect for a council that has goals very very similar to that of your guild.
The list I refer to is up to date; here (http://www.guildlisting.com/). Only half the guilds represented by SCoY are on it however, and I am sure there are many more in Yliakum which have not put themselves on it. So maybe you should think again about how big SCoY is. If you presented yourselves in a different light you might get a more positive response.
A good list would be Kada\'s list. I believe that is the official of official lists of guilds in Yliakum. And we agree 100% that we have room to grow. That is precisely why we have gone public and are accepting any guild that wishes to join. If Janner\'s Way does not join, then we will miss having you there, but we will move on. And if you wish to join at a later time, then we will accept you with open arms. I feel we have had a very positive response to our publicity. Seeing as how you and Janner have been the only two really criticising us in this thread. We have had several guilds already join since we made this thread a couple of days ago. I feel that is quite positive indeed. And believe me, we don\'t expect everyone to join. We expect doubts, and we have braced ourselves for harsh criticism.. And we will listen to that criticism. We hope to better ourselves with every week and every issue.
Is that correct? Ruby Reign are about 20, Way of the Hammer 12, Dragon Council 30 which leaves 138 between the other 3.
i will not give specifics for the sake of the member guilds, but i will give general numbers.
Protecters have more than 40, Way of the Hammer have around 20, Ruby Reign have in the mid 20\'s, Woiperdinger have around, or very near 100. As for Plakkem Hverrjanor and DC, i do not know enough to give you even an estimate. So to be fair i will not guess as to how many they have.. SO, thats about 180 plus two guilds whom i don\'t know the numbers of, and 3 more who are joining. I asked Ogu about him saying we had 200 members and he replied, \"When i said we had 200 members, it was an estimate, not a bluff..\"
Again Milady, with all due respect, we are not hiding anything at all. And of course, we appreciate your criticism.
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
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So let\'s say a member guild truly disagrees with the decision of the council. Is there an appeal process that a guild can access if they wish the matter readdressed? I know they have vowed to comply to the descisions of the council. So what are the options should they not agree with that final descision? Have they given up their right to openly oppose the council?
Is it a put up and shut up kinda deal or must they leave if they don\'t agree and refuse to let the matter go?
I am not one to submissively submit to a descision I truly do not agree with...what would my options be if my guild were a member . [and yes if the Scions were to join Scoy Xillix and I would be the ambassadors ;)]
cheers
Anfa
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Originally posted by Anfa
So let\'s say a member guild truly disagrees with the decision of the council. Is there an appeal process that a guild can access if they wish the matter readdressed? I know they have vowed to comply to the descisions of the council. So what are the options should they not agree with that final descision? Have they given up their right to openly oppose the council?
Is it a put up and shut up kinda deal or must they leave if they don\'t agree and refuse to let the matter go?
I am not one to submissively submit to a descision I truly do not agree with...what would my options be if my guild were a member . [and yes if the Scions were to join Scoy Xillix and I would be the ambassadors ;)]
cheers
Anfa
Good question. Its not blatently stated in the Charter, but yes, there is an appeals process.. There are a couple of things to do concerning voting.
1- if you are unsure about the issue, or wish to yield for a set amount of time before voting, you may do so.
2- if you disagree fundamentally, you may ask for a reevaluation in which you will be given the floor to speak your side of the issue. This is subject to the approval of a 1/3 vote of the council. Then there will be a revote.
There should not be need to do any more than one revote unless of course there is some new evidence that comes to light after the second vote.
The council is flexible, and we have shown that lately, and im quite proud to see it be tested, and pass to my standards. For example, usually we meet once every 2 weeks, but lately, we\'ve been meeting every week, as it has been neccessary. But the bottom line is, if the coucnil ends up going the way you did not picture it going, you still are responsible for sticking to your oath. Its about compromise. Some things will go your way, and others will not.
Thank you for the question..
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
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Originally posted by Pip
Is that correct? Ruby Reign are about 20, Way of the Hammer 12, Dragon Council 30 which leaves 138 between the other 3.
What is you point? You seem to be nit picking at any little thing. The fact of this matter is SKoY is here, period. Your opinions have been noted and SKoY isn\'t going away, nor can it be re introduced to Ylaikum to your satisfaction. Most of the questions you have asked have been addressed over and over in the Octarch Thread and on the SKoY site, as well as here in this thread. My point is, unless you have something to contribute ... this is talked out.
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A good list would be Kada\'s list. I believe that is the official of official lists of guilds in Yliakum.
Kada\'s list is really outdated at this time, so the list Pip suggested is probably better. Though making calculations relying on the member count that guild leaders give you is plain silly. The active member count has nothing to do with all the numbers you can find on different guildlists or sites. No offense to the guilds I mention, but you won\'t find 28 active Knowledge Seekers just like you won\'t find 30 active Community of Vaalnor members (just examples). None of the guilds show, or even know, their true active member count as this changes all the time, which makes a discussion about members quite...pointless.
Something much more important is the quality of the guilds. What are your requirements on roleplaying, for example? Since guilds only have to accept to join, what\'s your guarantee that they will RP?
The reason I say this is because I have seen several guildleaders ingame lately who claim to be roleplayers when they are not. If the leader doesn\'t roleplay I believe it is safe to assume that most of his guildmembers don\'t either. What about that, Easton?
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Originally posted by Father Sengus
Something much more important is the quality of the guilds. What are your requirements on roleplaying, for example? Since guilds only have to accept to join, what\'s your guarantee that they will RP?
The reason I say this is because I have seen several guildleaders ingame lately who claim to be roleplayers when they are not. If the leader doesn\'t roleplay I believe it is safe to assume that most of his guildmembers don\'t either. What about that, Easton?
A good point, Sengus..
The council will take on both RP and OOC matters. There are no requirements for either though. Why? Because we are not a government. We have no authority to force any guilds to RP as we do to force any guild to be lawful good or chatoic evil. If we limited it to RP guilds only, then we would be limiting ourselves, just as if we didn\'t allow RP guilds. So, we decided to take on issues concerning both RP and OOC.
i don\'t want this to turn into a roleplayers vs. ooc gamers discussion. But if you have any other questions concerning the matter, please continue to ask. just make sure its on topic, as Sengus\'s post was. Thank you Sengus.
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
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Thanks for responding thoroughly. :) Another question that rises is how you plan to discuss the IC and OOC questions. Hopefully, the ingame meetings will be for discussing IC matters only, but where will OOC discussions be held?
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Originally posted by Easton
[] to take on an even greater task: To provide a common meeting ground for all of the guilds of Yliakum for the discussion of all of the issues that guilds and their members may be facing in these unprecedented times.\"
The Scions would welcome a common meeting ground where guild issues can be discussed...
Does this mean that once you are more firmly established you will be having open meetings for all the guilds to participate in?
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Originally posted by Father Sengus
Thanks for responding thoroughly. :) Another question that rises is how you plan to discuss the IC and OOC questions. Hopefully, the ingame meetings will be for discussing IC matters only, but where will OOC discussions be held?
I cannot go into that throughly, but i will tell you what i can...
We try to keep everything in game as much as possible. Meetings etc.. but realistically, we are all people and since we only really have scheduled meetings either once a week or once every two weeks, it is important to have communication between members whenever possible. So we have various other types of communication including the forums on our site. We have no problem dealing with OOC issues in game. But again, i can\'t really get into the structure of the meetings. Im sure you would understand if the DE were to join.
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
*edit*
Originally posted by Anfa
The Scions would welcome a common eeting ground where guild issues can be discussed...
Does this mean that once you are more firmly established you will be having open meetings for all the guilds to participate in?
I seem to not quite understand you Milady.. We are hoping to do that, yes. These essentially are open meetings that every guild can participate in. But we need as many guilds as possible to be apart of it.
Sorry i didn\'t understand..
Easton Ghent
Please avoid posting two or more successive posts before others have replied, even if you are replying to different people. Just edit your last post to add new information :) Thanks! --Karyuu
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Originally posted by Easton
. These essentially are open meetings that every guild can participate in. But we need as many guilds as possible to be apart of it.
Oh wonderful!! so when is the next meeting and what is on the agenda?
Is there a place I can go where the time and place are listed so that nonmember guilds know the schedule?
Seems I was the one who misunderstood, I thought the meetings were closed to members only..
Me bad...my apologies
cheers
Anfa
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Originally posted by Anfa
Oh wonderful!! so when is the next meeting and what is on the agenda?
Is there a place I can go where the time and place are listed so that nonmember guilds know the schedule?
Seems I was the one who misunderstood, I thought the meetings were closed to members only..
Me bad...my apologies
cheers
Anfa
I may have been unclear... the council is open to all guilds. That means, any guild that wants to join, may join. As long as they agree to the charter, and take the oath as i have previously explained. Boom, then they have the access to the meetings, the votes, the issues, etc.. of course they are closed to members only, however, there will be a page on our site that will list publicly, the public issues that the council has discussed and the public stance the SCoY has taken.
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
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Originally posted by Easton
As long as they agree to the charter, and take the oath as i have previously explained.
Well in your mission statement you mention the guest rules, where might I find the oath a guild must make in order to join SCoY on your website?
Respectively
Anfa
[ Use the ending tag for your quotes, Anfa :) Otherwise it doesn\'t wrap around the quoted text correctly, and we\'re not sure where the quote ends and your real post begins. [QUOTE]textextext[/QUOTE] ] --Kary[/b]
Okay got it...Sorry..I thought that\'s what the lines were for..still learning
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That informatoin is not posted yet.
Easton Ghent
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Originally posted by Easton
I feel that you are accusing of the same things that either don\'t make sense, or are simply misinterpretations of our Charter. I will continue to answer your every question, but i ask you to be a bit more polite. I have respect for your criticism and it seems you have no respect for a council that has goals very very similar to that of your guild.
I was not aware that I had repeated myself but if I did I apologise. I respect what you are trying to do, but I beg you to hear my concerns:
\"All guilds and/or citizens who wish to promote the general well-being in Yliakum may participate.\"
Seems to conflict with
\"Only guild leaders, or one of their hand-selected diplomats or ambassadors may attend the assemblies.\"
\"All issues and contents of the assembly will remain secret. No one is to know any details of the assembly, including your attendance, unless the expressed consent of the entire council.\"
Why the secrecy? What do you have to hide?
Originally posted by Easton
A good list would be Kada\'s list. I believe that is the official of official lists of guilds in Yliakum.
But
Originally posted by Father Sengus
Kada\'s list is really outdated at this time, so the list Pip suggested is probably better. Though making calculations relying on the member count that guild leaders give you is plain silly. The active member count has nothing to do with all the numbers you can find on different guildlists or sites. No offense to the guilds I mention, but you won\'t find 28 active Knowledge Seekers just like you won\'t find 30 active Community of Vaalnor members (just examples). None of the guilds show, or even know, their true active member count as this changes all the time, which makes a discussion about members quite...pointless.
Agreed
Originally posted by zorbels
What is you point? You seem to be nit picking at any little thing. The fact of this matter is SKoY is here, period. Your opinions have been noted and SKoY isn\'t going away, nor can it be re introduced to Ylaikum to your satisfaction. Most of the questions you have asked have been addressed over and over in the Octarch Thread and on the SKoY site, as well as here in this thread. My point is, unless you have something to contribute ... this is talked out.
Whoops, have I upset you? So sorry. My point is that SCoY has often claimed to represent a LARGE section of the community when it is clearly not the case.
Originally posted by Easton
And we agree 100% that we have room to grow.
So Why not just say you aim to represent a large section of the community, as membership grows.
Originally posted by Easton
I feel we have had a very positive response to our publicity. Seeing as how you and Janner have been the only two really criticising us in this thread.
You may not have had direct critisism from anyone else in this thread, but you have elsewhere in the forums.
Again Milady, with all due respect, we are not hiding anything at all. And of course, we appreciate your criticism.
Then why call me rude. Blunt perhaps but I certainly wasn\'t rude.
Originally posted by Anfa
where might I find the oath a guild must make in order to join SCoY on your website?
Originally posted by Easton
That informatoin is not posted yet.
A perfect time to publish it here, don\'t you think?
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For goodness\' sakes, is SCoY still under all this mindless attack and criticism?
Listen - they don\'t owe you anything. They don\'t owe you an explanation, or a manifesto, or any kind of transparency. They\'re letting you \"in\" simply as a courtesy and you should be thanking them for that instead of assaulting them with innane questions.
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It is my impression that no one is really claiming SCoY \"owes\" them anything.. unless SCoY is claiming to represent them. The criticism presented doesn\'t seem \"mindless\" and concerns differing opinions of how to construct a representative inter-guild organisation.
They\'re letting you \"in\" simply as a courtesy
Seems to me that they\'re letting people \"in\" not as some sort of courtesy from on high, but because without people joining the exercise is meaningless :)
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Where to start...
Originally posted by Pip
but I beg you to hear my concerns:
\"All guilds and/or citizens who wish to promote the general well-being in Yliakum may participate.\"
Seems to conflict with
\"Only guild leaders, or one of their hand-selected diplomats or ambassadors may attend the assemblies.
Well it doesn\'t. Most guilds talk with their members. However, not all members of a guild can be present at a meeting, that would be way too complicated and counter-productive. So, we thought of having two ambassadors from each member guild speak on behalf of the entire guild. It is up to each guild to talk within itself and amongst its own members and then have their guild\'s decision ready come time for the meeting. Is there anything wrong with that system? Because that is why i am posting here.
Pip said:
\"All issues and contents of the assembly will remain secret. No one is to know any details of the assembly, including your attendance, unless the expressed consent of the entire council.\"
Why the secrecy? What do you have to hide?
Nothing. That is outdated, and that is how the Charter was written over 6 months ago. Now that we are public that is obviously not applicable. However, all matters discussed in the council will remain in the council until the Spokesperson posts the final stance of the council. Thats just how it is.
Pip Wrote:
Originally posted by zorbels
What is you point? You seem to be nit picking at any little thing. The fact of this matter is SKoY is here, period. Your opinions have been noted and SKoY isn\'t going away, nor can it be re introduced to Ylaikum to your satisfaction. Most of the questions you have asked have been addressed over and over in the Octarch Thread and on the SKoY site, as well as here in this thread. My point is, unless you have something to contribute ... this is talked out.
Whoops, have I upset you? So sorry. My point is that SCoY has often claimed to represent a LARGE section of the community when it is clearly not the case.[/i]
Please quote me with the date and time of when i claimed that we were a large section of the community. Please.
Originally posted by Easton
And we agree 100% that we have room to grow.
So Why not just say you aim to represent a large section of the community, as membership grows.[/i]
We have.
Pip Wrote:
Originally posted by Easton
I feel we have had a very positive response to our publicity. Seeing as how you and Janner have been the only two really criticising us in this thread.
You may not have had direct critisism from anyone else in this thread, but you have elsewhere in the forums.
Again Milady, with all due respect, we are not hiding anything at all. And of course, we appreciate your criticism.
Then why call me rude. Blunt perhaps but I certainly wasn\'t rude.[/i]
I feel like you were demanding things of me that i do not have to give you. But i am.. out of the good faith of this very council. Maybe that might mean something to you. I hope so. I just don\'t want you to be so demanding. We ask for your criticism, not your scrutiny.
Pip Wrote:
Originally posted by Anfa
where might I find the oath a guild must make in order to join SCoY on your website?
Originally posted by Easton
That informatoin is not posted yet.
A perfect time to publish it here, don\'t you think?
[/QUOTE][/i]
When it is completely prepared, we will decide where to post it.. it will most likely be on the SCoY site though.
@dfryer- He\'s right. Without any of the guilds, the council fails. Our goal is to unite as many guilds as possible, only having 3 wouldn\'t cut it. If you join the council, you become a part of it.. don\'t forget that.
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
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Originally posted by Easton
When it is completely prepared, we will decide where to post it.. it will most likely be on the SCoY site though.
Okay I\'m confused..
You already have 6 guilds in this alliance?
since the Oath isn\'t completely prepared what did the founding guilds swear?
And why would it be different than new guilds joining?
really confused..
Anfa
Ohh are you working to make it sound more poetic?
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Originally posted by Anfa
Originally posted by Easton
When it is completely prepared, we will decide where to post it.. it will most likely be on the SCoY site though.
Okay I\'m confused..
You already have 6 guilds in this alliance?
since the Oath isn\'t completely prepared what did the founding guilds swear?
And why would it be different than new guilds joining?
really confused..
Anfa
The founding guilds knew what they were agreeing to when they made the council. They were there to establish the Charter and test it. I saved my opening speech from the very first meeting of the council.. here\'s an exerpt..
\"If you are in attendance today, then you are taking an oath to listen, speak, and make your decisions based on helping the good of Yilakum and protecting the peace and prosperity that we hold so dear.\"
I assume it will be very similar to that.
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
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Originally posted by dfryer
It is my impression that no one is really claiming SCoY \"owes\" them anything.. unless SCoY is claiming to represent them. The criticism presented doesn\'t seem \"mindless\" and concerns differing opinions of how to construct a representative inter-guild organisation.
They\'re letting you \"in\" simply as a courtesy
Seems to me that they\'re letting people \"in\" not as some sort of courtesy from on high, but because without people joining the exercise is meaningless :)
People are asking questions.
People are getting upity when they don\'t get satisfactory answers.
People think SCoY owe them satisfactory answers.
And people are already involved in SCoY, so my statement about them letting others in on what they\'re about is perfectly reasonable. In fact, everything I said was perfectly reasonable.
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Having worked on many forming of organzations I was wondering how often the top positions are voted on and what sort of nomination proceedure has been implemented?
Cheers
Anfa
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Originally posted by Anfa
Having worked on many forming of organzations I was wondering how often the top positions are voted on and what sort of nomination proceedure has been implemented?
Cheers
Anfa
Thats the thing. There is no real top position. Most would say the president is the top position but that is not true. In fact, the president is less powerful than most because he only votes in the event of a tie in the votes. However, the president can be voted out of office at any time. A vote must simply be called. Then of course there is discussion and whatnot.. then another president will be elected. I think we should hold a vote after most guilds that are going to join have done so. As i do not want anyone to think that i am in any way imposing myself to be president. I was elected very early one, and now we have more people. I think it is only fair, (an believe me its not a lot of fun being president. ;))
PS- Youve formed a lot of organizations? Do you mean within PS or RL?
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
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Originally posted by Anfa
Having worked on many forming of organzations I was wondering how often the top positions are voted on and what sort of nomination proceedure has been implemented?
hmmm guess that would depend on what your definition of many is...lol
In real life...as it has been pointed out in other areas of this forum I am fairly new to PS.. ;p
A couple of small community based programs..
A couple of NFP organizations, again fairly small but spend hours in bylaw hell trying to cover every \"what if\" lol
this was on a volunteer basis..yes I volunteered for bylaw hell [the first time not knowing what I was volunteering myself into...heheheh]
Gets easier after the first time!
I truly understand that you have a vision and I really am honestly curious on what path you decided to take in order to bring that vision to life.
Isn\'t it wonderful watching something you\'ve helped create take on a life of it\'s own and watching to see if it follows the path you dreamt it would follow.
There will always be people like me who are curious about the working parts more so than the big vision so if my questions get to much just let me know.
Respectively
Anfa
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Originally posted by Anfa
hmmm guess that would depend on what your definition of many is...lol
In real life...as it has been pointed out in other areas of this forum I am fairly new to PS.. ;p
A couple of small community based programs..
A couple of NFP organizations, again fairly small but spend hours in bylaw hell trying to cover every \"what if\" lol
this was on a volunteer basis..yes I volunteered for bylaw hell [the first time not knowing what I was volunteering myself into...heheheh]
Gets easier after the first time!
I truly understand that you have a vision and I really am honestly curious on what path you decided to take in order to bring that vision to life.
Isn\'t it wonderful watching something you\'ve helped create take on a life of it\'s own and watching to see if it follows the path you dreamt it would follow.
There will always be people like me who are curious about the working parts more so than the big vision so if my questions get to much just let me know.
Respectively
Anfa
No amount of questions will be too much, i assure you. Continue as you would. :)
Easton Ghent
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I was wondering about this IG and OOC mix...Is there a certain amout of IG activity expected from the members of SCoY?
I would think that not being active IG would leave someone \"out of touch\" with the current situations within the game so I was curious on how SCoY would address a situation like this?
Cheers
Anfa
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Originally posted by Anfa
I was wondering about this IG and OOC mix...Is there a certain amout of IG activity expected from the members of SCoY?
I would think that not being active IG would leave someone \"out of touch\" with the current situations within the game so I was curious on how SCoY would address a situation like this?
Cheers
Anfa
Good question... We have in the past. First off.. we like to keep everything as IG and possible. Meetings are held IG if permitting (server status). We have agreed on a time, but that will most likely change as more guilds join. If we are lucky, it will stay the same. We also have forums along with several other ways of communication. Not being there for meetings is acceptable if planned ahead, or something has come up, but if prolonged, the guild will be removed from the council. We have a lot of communication IG and out of game.. i jsut can\'t be too specific of course :)
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
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Originally posted by Pip
Whoops, have I upset you? So sorry.
No you have not upset me and I would think you silly to even imply that. :/ If was was upset I would have said so in my post, just for future reference. :)
Originally posted by Pip
\"All guilds and/or citizens who wish to promote the general well-being in Yliakum may participate.\"
Seems to conflict with
\"Only guild leaders, or one of their hand-selected diplomats or ambassadors may attend the assemblies.\"
Ok again I just see this as nit picking but... I think it is safe to say that it would be really hard to have a meeting with 6 different guilds with about 20 members each all talking at once.
This is a great opportunity to have something to roleplay in your guild, something to work for. To be hand picked by your guild master to go to an important meeting and speak on behalf of your guild.
Plus it is up to your guild to talk about what they want to voice at the SKoY meeting. Take Xillix roleplay for example, our guild master asked our guild members what their opinion\'s were before the SKoY meeting .. do we accept her or oppose her as the Octarch? We had a vote and then my guild master and his right hand man spoke at the SKoY meeting on our guilds behalf. I don\'t know about you but I trust my guild leaders.
Originally posted by Pip
\"All issues and contents of the assembly will remain secret. No one is to know any details of the assembly, including your attendance, unless the expressed consent of the entire council.\"
Why the secrecy? What do you have to hide?
It is called confidentiality so that members of SKoY can state their opinion and not feel that the information they bring to the SKoY meetings will get into the wrong hands like lets say .... evil guilds or doers.
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By zorbels
It is called confidentiality so that members of SKoY can state their opinion and not feel that the information they bring to the SKoY meetings will get into the wrong hands like lets say .... evil guilds or doers.
By Easton
All guilds are welcome!
So all guilds welcome, so all evil type guilds too ? If so how can you discuss combatting EVIL, if evil is in your guild of guilds ?
By Pip
Whoops, have I upset you? So sorry. My point is that SCoY has often claimed to represent a LARGE section of the community when it is clearly not the case.
By Easton
Please quote me with the date and time of when i claimed that we were a large section of the community. Please.
By Easton
Maybe she knew that we are made up of a large part of the guild population in Yliakum . Im not saying we represent everyone, or anything like that. She just knew that if we supported her, then her slide into power would be that much easier. As for the Vigesmi.. Yes, they are supposed to elect the octarch. Xillix was planning to do that the other way around. Hence our disapproval of what she was doing.
All guilds are welcome!
Believe it or not i am bringing these points up to clear up the confusion.
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hmmm it seems to me it would make more sense to have SCoY more open so that guilds that are not members can see what it is they are doing and what they are accomplishing to better understand why they would want to be apart of it.
Having secret meetings can give the wrong impression to your intent.
Secret meetings can be seen as having something to hide or having an elitists attitude...
I understand this is not the message you are trying to send but unfortunatly it is the message some are receiving. Perhaps you should rethink this approach?
Just my 2 trias worth,
Anfa [who was never good at following the crowd]
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I believe that part of the problem here is that some people who are posting on behalf of the SCoY are using words a bit too lightly. For example, someone said \"elite guilds\" earlier, and i had to explain that they didn\'t mean \"elite\" by any means.
I don\'t think Zorbels meant that we are combatting evil guilds seeing as how anyone can see that in the charter there is no mention of the council combatting evil. We do wish to limit the amount of overall disruption within the realm by providing a diplomatic forum for parties to discuss their problems with eachother if need be. Whether or not that has to do with \"evil\" guilds or not does not matter. Disruption does not have to come from evil vs good... as we all saw with the Xillix affair.
Zorbels, if i spoke wrongly about anythign you said, please correct me, i simply stated my interpretation. ;)
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
*edit*
Originally posted by Anfa
hmmm it seems to me it would make more sense to have SCoY more open so that guilds that are not members can see what it is they are doing and what they are accomplishing to better understand why they would want to be apart of it.
Having secret meetings can give the wrong impression to your intent.
Secret meetings can be seen as having something to hide or having an elitists attitude...
I understand this is not the message you are trying to send but unfortunatly it is the message some are receiving. Perhaps you should rethink this approach?
Just my 2 trias worth,
Anfa [who was never good at following the crowd]
Off of the SCoY charter:
Spokesperson - this person is in charge of the publicity of the council. He or she will post on the forum the official thoughts and stances of the council on certain public issues as authorized by the council.
There will be public notification of the council\'s decisions on issues. Now, since i know you are going to ask about the part that says \"certain public issues..\" i will address that now:
That is merely a safeguard. If there happens to be an issue, for whatever reason, (i can\'t think of one, but we must prepare for the unexpected right??) that only the council members should know about, that is our disclaimer. But we will not keep anything from the general public, it would not be in our interest.
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
Please avoid posting two or more successive posts before others have replied, even if you\'re addressing different people. Just edit your last post to add new information :) Thanks! --Karyuu
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Originally posted by Easton
I believe that part of the problem here is that some people who are posting on behalf of the SCoY are using words a bit too lightly.
Including you, it seems.
By Easton To Pip
Please quote me with the date and time of when i claimed that we were a large section of the community. Please.
OK there you are.
By Easton 14.03.2006, 05:56
Maybe she knew that we are made up of a large part of the guild population in Yliakum . Im not saying we represent everyone, or anything like that. She just knew that if we supported her, then her slide into power would be that much easier. As for the Vigesmi.. Yes, they are supposed to elect the octarch. Xillix was planning to do that the other way around. Hence our disapproval of what she was doing.
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Originally posted by Easton
I don\'t think Zorbels meant that we are combatting evil guilds seeing as how anyone can see that in the charter there is no mention of the council combatting evil. We do wish to limit the amount of overall disruption within the realm by providing a diplomatic forum for parties to discuss their problems with eachother if need be. Whether or not that has to do with \"evil\" guilds or not does not matter. Disruption does not have to come from evil vs good... as we all saw with the Xillix affair.
Zorbels, if i spoke wrongly about anythign you said, please correct me, i simply stated my interpretation. ;)
Perhaps it was a little hastey to use \"evil guilds and doers\" I reworded my statement I hope that is more correct.
Originally posted by Pip
\"All issues and contents of the assembly will remain secret. No one is to know any details of the assembly, including your attendance, unless the expressed consent of the entire council.\"
Why the secrecy? What do you have to hide?
It is called confidentiality so that members of SKoY can state their opinion and not feel that the information they bring to the SKoY meetings will get into the hands like lets say .... people who are not apart of SKoY <----The point to this statement and the word confidentiality.
If this is not correct then please due let me know Easton. :D *grumbles that she should have known to stay out of it and curses her hot headedness* ;)
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Originally posted by zorbels
It is called confidentiality so that members of SKoY can state their opinion and not feel that the information they bring to the SKoY meetings will get into the hands like lets say .... people who are not apart of SKoY <----The point to this statement and the word confidentiality.
Thank you Easton for your time and patience in answering my questions but this pretty much does it for me.
The us and them mentality is slightly disturbing for a group who proclaims to want to help all.
It is not what you intended I\'m sure but seems to be prevailing amongst your members who have posted on this thread and other parts of this forum
.
I wish you much luck in your endeavor.
Fare thee well,
Anfa
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Originally posted by Anfa
Originally posted by zorbels
It is called confidentiality so that members of SKoY can state their opinion and not feel that the information they bring to the SKoY meetings will get into the hands like lets say .... people who are not apart of SKoY <----The point to this statement and the word confidentiality.
Thank you Easton for your time and patience in answering my questions but this pretty much does it for me.
The us and them mentality is slightly disturbing for a group who proclaims to want to help all.
It is not what you intended I\'m sure but seems to be prevailing amongst your members who have posted on this thread and other parts of this forum
.
I wish you much luck in your endeavor.
Fare thee well,
Anfa
Anfa there is not mentality of \"Us and them\" in my books with my own personal opinions. I was simply answering a question that pip had asked with my own opinion. I don\'t like to see a certain group of people implying that SKoY is secretive. I have never been to a SKoY meeting, and I didn\'t help set it up SKoY or it\'s system. I get the distinct impression that you think I am apart of SKoY and if you do then you are right only in one way. My guild is apart of SKoY. Other than that all of what I have said come from my own personal opinion, not SKoY\'s.
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Originally posted by Anfa
Thank you Easton for your time and patience in answering my questions but this pretty much does it for me.
The us and them mentality is slightly disturbing for a group who proclaims to want to help all.
It is not what you intended I\'m sure but seems to be prevailing amongst your members who have posted on this thread and other parts of this forum.
Probably the most disappointing post so far. All that and you still think there is an \"us and them\" mentality?
*Easton passes out on the floor*
@Janner- If you\'re going to find every flaw in my word choice, well, by all means enjoy yourself. I\'d also like to note that i wrote this....
By Easton 14.03.2006, 05:56
Maybe she knew that we are made up of a large part of the guild population in Yliakum . Im not saying we represent everyone, or anything like that. She just knew that if we supported her, then her slide into power would be that much easier. As for the Vigesmi.. Yes, they are supposed to elect the octarch. Xillix was planning to do that the other way around. Hence our disapproval of what she was doing.
...after you had claimed that i had said that. Now, if your goal is to frustrate me until i start mixing up my words, then by all means, continue to do so. Because we know that it is not the words that matter, it is the intention and the action. We could say we are taking over the world.. who cares. I know in the very deepest part of me that what we are doing is innocent, and for the good of all who wish to join.
With that said, i hope we can move on maybe?
Easton Ghent
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Not even the members of SCoY seem to be clear about the aims and purposes, your explanations have been at best vague, so my initial instinct when finding out about it seems to be right. I have done with it now.
PS checked back through this thread, neither Pip nor I said anything about large part of the guild population in Yliakum before you did.
I wish you luck.
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Originally posted by r.guppy
Not even the members of SCoY seem to be clear about the aims and purposes, your explanations have been at best vague, so my initial instinct when finding out about it seems to be right. I have done with it now.
PS checked back through this thread, neither Pip nor I said anything about large part of the guild population in Yliakum before you did.
I wish you luck.
I really have to disagree with you, we know what we are and we know what our purpose is. The fact that some cling to question of semantics doesn\'t mean that we don\'t know anything about the aims or purposes of the SCoY. The fact that not all the guilds are a part of SCoY is because they either refused to join us prefering to conduct they\'re own activityes either they weren\'t yet invited. Let\'s not forget that SCoY is a young organisation still but i think that if you would take some time and look at what we acomplished you\'ll see that we haven\'t been sitting on our hands. Our purpose is (as stated in the official and public website (http://ugo.sinet.it/scoy/index.php/Library/MissionStatement) ) \"to ensure the well-being of all in Yliakum by learning about and preventing any conflicts from destroying the peace that we all hold dear\". You can think of us as mediators for conflicts, not as a government and certainly not as a threat to any guild or anybody. That\'s why we also accept evil guilds amongst us. If certain guilds are not invited, well... you have to think about the quality of the guilds that nowdays populate Yliakum. There are guilds with no purpose at all, guilds that are mass recruiting without having any standards as far as they\'re members are concerned, in short, guilds that are like mushrooms, now you see them and tomorrow they are gone. I\'m not flaming anybody here and i\'m also not pointing fingers by saying that. I think Easton\'s explanations were preety concise so if you stop listening to your instincts and actually read them you\'ll see that there is no point of acusing us of not knowing what we are doing.
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/me smiles and points to Eolius
\"What he said..\"
Easton Ghent
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Originally posted by Eolius
If certain guilds are not invited, well... you have to think about the quality of the guilds that nowdays populate Yliakum.
Did noone tell you Eolius?
All guilds are welcomed, they don\'t have to wait for an invitation....
Sigh
I give up..
Anfa
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*claps* Well said Lord Eolius :D
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What is everyone really argueing about here? Most of the people I see argueing against the aims of this organization, dont seem to be the types to be against it. It would be one thing if you didnt agree with its aims/goals but just to nit pick is not so cool. But what Easton is really going to need is help. Ive done this exact thing before.. and its tough. Trying to keep everything organized and everyone informed. No easy task is ahead of him. Thankfully it seems like he has plenty of good help. But instead of saying why you dont like it, make suggestions about how it should be changed, or join and try to help fix/guide the organization itself. Sitting back is really the worst thing to do I think.
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Originally posted by Anfa
Originally posted by Eolius
If certain guilds are not invited, well... you have to think about the quality of the guilds that nowdays populate Yliakum.
Did noone tell you Eolius?
All guilds are welcomed, they don\'t have to wait for an invitation....
Sigh
I give up..
Anfa
Well, you are the one confused Milady.. He was refering to how Janner was annoyed that his guild was not invited in the beginning. Because in the beginning we only invited guilds.
Easton Ghent
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Originally posted by Valbrandr
What is everyone really argueing about here? Most of the people I see argueing against the aims of this organization, dont seem to be the types to be against it. It would be one thing if you didnt agree with its aims/goals but just to nit pick is not so cool. But what Easton is really going to need is help. Ive done this exact thing before.. and its tough. Trying to keep everything organized and everyone informed. No easy task is ahead of him. Thankfully it seems like he has plenty of good help. But instead of saying why you dont like it, make suggestions about how it should be changed, or join and try to help fix/guide the organization itself. Sitting back is really the worst thing to do I think.
Why ?
If I have a problem with a guild I talk to that guild only. If a guild has a problem with me or a member of mine they talk to my [non] guild. Not a group of guilds, I call that airing you dirty linen in public.
If the problem is say a evil one and SCoY have evil alined guilds in it. I cant see what you hope to achieve as any discussion would be against the aims of evil guilds, and the same applies to good aligned guilds.
You said the recent unrest was a good example of what you were formed to do ? I disagree as the numbers of players turning up not in guilds proved they too care about these matters, and indeed want a say in the outcome, in your SCoY they have no voice.
By Eolius
If certain guilds are not invited, well... you have to think about the quality of the guilds that nowdays populate Yliakum. There are guilds with no purpose at all, guilds that are mass recruiting without having any standards as far as they\'re members are concerned, in short, guilds that are like mushrooms, now you see them and tomorrow they are gone.
By Easton
Well, you are the one confused Milady.. He was refering to how Janner was annoyed that his guild was not invited in the beginning. Because in the beginning we only invited guilds.
I am curious which do you class me in ?
I want no part in it as my opening post in my thread states I am not a man to lead or be led. I have a (non)guild of individuals, who enjoy the freedom Janner\'s Way gives them. To join SCoY and be bound by oath to follow the decision of a council made up of a collection of diverse and opposing minds, some of whom may be personally objectional to each other, would be totally against what Janner\'s Way is about.
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Why ?
If the problem is say a evil one and SCoY have evil alined guilds in it. I cant see what you hope to achieve as any discussion would be against the aims of evil guilds, and the same applies to good aligned guilds.
Whatever happened to Chaos and Order, Janner? Just because guilds are of different alignment it does not mean that they cannot strive for the same thing. Look at the Dark Empire and compare it to any evil guild that wants to spread chaos and mayhem all over Yliakum. Then compare the Dark Empire to many of the guilds in the SCoY who are looking to create order in Yliakum society. Which do you think we would rather be assosciated to?
People need to stop thinking that all good guilds are about exterminating evil, vice versa (those guilds are just a result of lack of imagination.) An \"evil problem\" does not have to concern all evil guilds...
EDIT: More importantly, people need to stop thinking that this organisation is fighting evil. They fight to hold the peace...
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Chaos and order same thing two sides of a coin they cant agree, good evil two sides of a coin they cant agree.
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Why ? If I have a problem with a guild I talk to that guild only. If a guild has a problem with me or a member of mine they talk to my [non] guild. Not a group of guilds, I call that airing you dirty linen in public. If the problem is say a evil one and SCoY have evil alined guilds in it. I cant see what you hope to achieve as any discussion would be against the aims of evil guilds, and the same applies to good aligned guilds. You said the recent unrest was a good example of what you were formed to do ? I disagree as the numbers of players turning up not in guilds proved they too care about these matters, and indeed want a say in the outcome, in your SCoY they have no voice.
I think i was clear enough when i stated that SCoY is a organisation that have the purpose of mediating conflicts between guilds. Maby it was skipped while reading, so here it goes again: Our purpose is to ensure the well-being of all in Yliakum by learning about and preventing any conflicts from destroying the peace that we all hold dear. Since SCoY is actualy a guild reunion or coalition (call it what you like) it would be impossible to have individuals that aren\'t a part of a guild attending our meetings. This fact is caused by a simple reason: if we were to invite all the non-guilded people in Yliakum in a council, please tell me what would be the size of the meeting and how long would one of these meetings last when 200 or more people were to express they\'re point of view on one or more problems. Instead of telling us what\'s wrong, please come up with a solution. Everybody can criticise but not everybody can offer solutions. I am certain that if a representative of \" the numbers of players turning up not in guilds\" would wish to join us sustaining the point of view of the people he/she represents, nobody would have nothing against that representative. As far as the matter of evil guilds being part of SCoY is concerned, i would like to remind you that everybody, evil or good has the right to an opinion. An example would be yourself, you are the only one trying to trow mud on SCoY, yet, we listen to you and we debate your points of view.
I want no part in it as my opening post in my thread states I am not a man to lead or be led.
If you think that a guild is about leading people then you should perhaps stop talking about guilds since you know nothing about them. A guild is an organisation where people that have the same goal, work together towards achieving that goal. Nobody leads nobody and nobody gives orders to nobody.
I have a (non)guild of individuals, who enjoy the freedom Janner\'s Way gives them.
\"I have a guild\" is a statement that demonstrates possesion and leadership. I never talked about Protectors as \"my guild\" as that guild belongs to the Protectors not to me. Also, creating a guild for people that do not want to be in a guild is an oximoron. Freedom... i don\'t think that there is a guild that takes the freedom away from it\'s members or, if there are such guilds i don\'t know why people would join them. When we accept a new member, we always tell him \"Please, go look at our website, read the rules, and if those rules define you then we will gladly welcome you amongst us. If you think that there are rules that are contradicting with your way of being, then perhaps you should search for another guild because we don\'t want to force you to do things you don\'t want to\".
Chaos and order same thing two sides of a coin they cant agree, good evil two sides of a coin they cant agree.
You are wrong to think that there can be light without darkness or good without the evil. It is only a matter of balance. SKoY has the purpose of helping that balance to exist. You can think of us as the edge of the coin, nore good nore evil. There is a middle point between any 2 defined points. That\'s where chaos and order, good and evil, darkness and light will always meet. And SKoY is there to give them a warm welcome and to keep that middle point in the middle.
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Originally posted by Eolius
I think i was clear enough when i stated that SCoY is a organisation that have the purpose of mediating conflicts between guilds. Maby it was skipped while reading, so here it goes again: Our purpose is to ensure the well-being of all in Yliakum by learning about and preventing any conflicts from destroying the peace that we all hold dear.
I don\'t think I missed anything, as I said \"If I have a problem with a guild I talk to that guild only. If a guild has a problem with me or a member of mine they talk to my [non] guild. Not a group of guilds, I call that airing you dirty linen in public.\"
Since SCoY is actualy a guild reunion or coalition (call it what you like) it would be impossible to have individuals that aren\'t a part of a guild attending our meetings. This fact is caused by a simple reason: if we were to invite all the non-guilded people in Yliakum in a council, please tell me what would be the size of the meeting and how long would one of these meetings last when 200 or more people were to express they\'re point of view on one or more problems.
but your mission statement says:
\"Who?
All guilds and/or citizens[/i] who wish to promote the general well-being in Yliakum may participate.\"
Instead of telling us what\'s wrong, please come up with a solution.
IMO There isn\'t one, it has been tried before unsuccessfully. The same problems exist now as they did then.
Everybody can criticise but not everybody can offer solutions. I am certain that if a representative of \" the numbers of players turning up not in guilds\" would wish to join us sustaining the point of view of the people he/she represents, nobody would have nothing against that representative. As far as the matter of evil guilds being part of SCoY is concerned, i would like to remind you that everybody, evil or good has the right to an opinion. An example would be yourself, you are the only one trying to trow mud on SCoY, yet, we listen to you and we debate your points of view.
You say you listen to my points of view but accuse me of slinging mud; it is a contradictory statement. Like the whole concept of SCoY; full of potential conflicts.
If you think that a guild is about leading people then you should perhaps stop talking about guilds since you know nothing about them. A guild is an organisation where people that have the same goal, work together towards achieving that goal. Nobody leads nobody and nobody gives orders to nobody.
Why is it so important for guilds to have ranks and structure? Why does every guild have a Leader or Leaders? Why do members strive to work their ways up the ranks? I have turned away dozens of players from joining my guild, because when I ask them why they want to join they say \"I want to be in a guild\". I /tell them to read up about guilds in the Planeshift forums and come back to me if they still want to belong to Janner\'s Way. Many go off and join another guild. Is it because they want to belong to a guild with stronger structure and leadership than mine; they want to be led?
\"I have a guild\" is a statement that demonstrates possesion and leadership. I never talked about Protectors as \"my guild\" as that guild belongs to the Protectors not to me.
I said \"I have a (non)guild of individuals\" I also say \"I have a family\", \"I have a wife\" and \"I have neighbours\" but I am not implying that I own them.
Also, creating a guild for people that do not want to be in a guild is an oximoron. Freedom... i don\'t think that there is a guild that takes the freedom away from it\'s members or, if there are such guilds i don\'t know why people would join them.
Here you will see (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=21418&boardid=11&styleid=3&sid=8da26fbfe5dcf8aa120b0e06f266c76c) that planning for groups other than guilds is in the pipeline. So when this is implemented how many guilds will become groups or such?
When we accept a new member, we always tell him \"Please, go look at our website, read the rules, and if those rules define you then we will gladly welcome you amongst us. If you think that there are rules that are contradicting with your way of being, then perhaps you should search for another guild because we don\'t want to force you to do things you don\'t want to\".
But if the rules of SCoY don\'t fit you, you get the members bombarding you with arguments, trying to persuade you that you should accept them. And if you were to be persuaded to join you must swear an oath to do things even if you don\'t want to. Thank you, but NO thank you.
You are wrong to think that there can be light without darkness or good without the evil. It is only a matter of balance. SKoY has the purpose of helping that balance to exist. You can think of us as the edge of the coin, nore good nore evil. There is a middle point between any 2 defined points. That\'s where chaos and order, good and evil, darkness and light will always meet. And SKoY is there to give them a warm welcome and to keep that middle point in the middle.
I have never said that I think there can be light without dark or good without evil. The SCoY seems to me to be abject chaos disguised as order. There could only be one thing that all guilds could agree on and that would be to disagree.
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Originally posted by r.guppy
But if the rules of SCoY don\'t fit you, you get the members bombarding you with arguments, trying to persuade you that you should accept them. And if you were to be persuaded to join you must swear an oath to do things even if you don\'t want to. Thank you, but NO thank you.
1- We are simply trying to answer your questions. If you\'d like i can stop responding to you...
2- ugh.. its sooo obvious we don\'t want anyone to be apart of this if they don\'t want to be. We want everyone to join, but we expect some to not, and we are okay with that. We hope that as people see how the council works and is put to the test, people will begin to decide we aren\'t so bad.
3- Well, if we didn\'t have an oath like we do, then how would we garuntee that people wouldn\'t just get fed up and leave if a decision didn\'t go their way? This council is for guilds who are willing to compromise, and without you saying anything, janner, i know you are not at all willing to have any sort of compromise, and because of that, i am feeling a lot more disrespect for you and your guild overall. I supported your \"(non) guild\" from the very beginning, and i am much more inclined to not do so. Not because you refuse to join the council, i accept that with the upmost respect, but because of your attacks on the council. You have provided us with nothing to work on. In fact, the only way we could improve ourselves in your eyes is if we simply dissolved and forgot anything every happened.
Off of the sticky in the guilds forum:
Defining Your Guild
A successful guild takes a fair amount of planning. It is best to take time to clearly define what your guild is about and why they exist before physically creating it. As this is a roleplaying game, the longest lasting and biggest guilds have a reason for being who they are. Some exist to wreak havoc, some exist to spread peace, some unite around a certain god, etc.
Along with the guilds goals, many guilds like to have a history written up. A short (or long) story outlining how the guild came to start. This doesn\'t mean a story about how you were sitting at your computer one day and said to yourself, \"Hey! This game roxs, I\'m gonna create a 1337 guild!\" The story should be written as it pertains to your character.
That is for you Janner. Take a good long look..
Janner wrote:
I have never said that I think there can be light without dark or good without evil. The SCoY seems to me to be abject chaos disguised as order. There could only be one thing that all guilds could agree on and that would be to disagree.
[/QUOTE]
I invite you to come and listen to one of our meetings. Maybe then you can make this statement valid by backing it up with some form of the vaguest evidence.
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
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What i don\'t understand is your motivation to discredit SCoY. You said you don\'t need us. Fine. That\'s all there is to it.In RL, would you like the pshichologist job to be deleted from the face of the earth just because you don\'t need one? I don\'t think so... Maby you don\'t need us... So what? That\'s not a reason to disband SCoY. And by the way, you are saying that SCoY is full of conflicts thus you never attended none of our meetings. Don\'t you think it is a bit argumentativ that statement? I can asure you that we had and we\'ll never have any kind of conflicts inside SCoY.
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Instead of telling us what\'s wrong, please come up with a solution.
IMO There isn\'t one, it has been tried before unsuccessfully. The same problems exist now as they did then.
I don\'t understand you either, Janner. If there is no sollution to the problems and this organisation is bound to fail like its predecessors, why do you insist on posting here? Do you want them to disband right away, without giving it a shot? What are you trying to achieve through this conversation?
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Originally posted by Father Sengus
Instead of telling us what\'s wrong, please come up with a solution.
IMO There isn\'t one, it has been tried before unsuccessfully. The same problems exist now as they did then.
I don\'t understand you either, Janner. If there is no sollution to the problems and this organisation is bound to fail like its predecessors, why do you insist on posting here? Do you want them to disband right away, without giving it a shot? What are you trying to achieve through this conversation?
Because if no one says anything, no one will see what is wrong, and why should I tell them what to do, it\'s their idea let them fail or succeed, it is up to them ..the point of a forum is to post ones thoughts and ideas and hear what people have to say, you then rethink your idea depending on the input you get.
NOT BLINDLY DEFEND YOURSELF TO A POINT WHERE SOME GET UPSET BECAUSE THEIR INPUT FALLS ON DEAF EARS.
That is what I did, when I first posted \"Janner\'s Way\" it was short, I was criticised and given advice which I used in a positive way developing my idea and my initial post now reflects this.
PS Thank you to those who gave me that input, good or bad.
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History belongs to those who tryed... That\'s all i have to say.
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I think what most people are saying is that positive citique and critique on what could be better is something that can help, but that many of your critique isn\'t of that kind. Specially in your first posts.
I also sometimes feel that with your first accusation being disproven you are looking for loopholes to make it look like you were atleast partially right. This nitpicking to get that isn\'t a kind of critique I think helps.
Also I agree that you don\'t always have to have a solution to point out something that might be faulty, bur it all depends on why you are sayinig it.
If people feel you are truely saying it to help I don\'t think people will take it the wrong way. If you are pointing it out becuase you really think it can be done better people might not like hearing it but will respect it as your opinion, but I don\'t get those feelings from your posts.
People not in SCoY have even pointed this out so I don\'t feel I am alone in this or feeling overprotective.
I seriously like to ask you to look over your posts and ask yourself if you are really posting for the right reasons becuase I truely feel like there is somekind of personal reason for you to take this the way you do.
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Originally posted by Pestilence
I think what most people are saying is that positive citique and critique on what could be better is something that can help, but that many of your critique isn\'t of that kind. Specially in your first posts.
I also sometimes feel that with your first accusation being disproven you are looking for loopholes to make it look like you were atleast partially right. This nitpicking to get that isn\'t a kind of critique I think helps.
Also I agree that you don\'t always have to have a solution to point out something that might be faulty, bur it all depends on why you are sayinig it.
If people feel you are truely saying it to help I don\'t think people will take it the wrong way. If you are pointing it out becuase you really think it can be done better people might not like hearing it but will respect it as your opinion, but I don\'t get those feelings from your posts.
People not in SCoY have even pointed this out so I don\'t feel I am alone in this or feeling overprotective.
I seriously like to ask you to look over your posts and ask yourself if you are really posting for the right reasons becuase I truely feel like there is somekind of personal reason for you to take this the way you do.
First post.
\"I have made my thoughts on this well known in my Guild thread.
So this is not a new idea of yours as Valbrandr said. \"We have talked before about this idea.. it was so long ago I thought you had given up the idea.\"\"
Only a comment did not know it was an old idea.
Second post.
\"Ok here is something else to think about, the recent unrest of last night was announced it was to take place where and when.. where were the town Militiia?
Perfect chance for them to do there thing, to keep the peace, where were they?
Or was it as i think [ me alone thinks ] there was a conflict of interest, in that leaders support both SCoY and Militia.\"
Again I did not know Militia was for NPCs only, nothing wrong there.
I assure you non of this is a personal attack on anyone. At the moment i am ill and i am not at my best.
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I believe that if you put enough soul into something, nothing will be impossible. Why should we stop trying to create something if others failed before us? What would have happened with humanity if everybody saw things as you do? We would still be in the stone age and not able to talk now using fancy computers connected to an impossible-to-build-because-it-is-too-big network. Also, the only things you would see when you would turn your eyes to the sky would be birds and clouds because everybody used to believe that man would never fly, just 100 years ago. Oh, and the earth would still be flat.
About the militia, there is no conflict of intherest between SCoY and the aforementioned organisation and it would be preety impossible for such a thing to occur since both share common grounds. I totaly agree with Pestilence, constructive criticism is one thing and loosing ourselves in loopholes generated by semantics is another thing. Constructive criticism works like this: \"you did that and i think it is wrong, i would have done it this way\". Destructive criticism though is: \"you did that and i think it is wrong.\"
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Is that really you Janner? I always known you as a smart and thoughtfull person. I am a member of the SCoY, and I support it at the fullest!
Once, we decided something, and I was the only one against the matter. I felt kind of bad, and wondered if the SCoY really was worth being in. But then Easton and Ogu came to me and explained me some things. They made clear to me why the council voted against me. In the end, the matter was resolved, in a peacefull, gentle way. It turns out i was wrong...
It was so clear to me, my way was the best way, and yet the entire council voted against me... They corrected my mistake, before I even made it, avoiding further complications. My point is, I believe in the SCoY and it\'s actually doing good things. a lot know more then one.
Anyway... If the SCoY wasn\'t there, not only me would make that mistake, but 22 proud dwarves, that respect my authority in The Way of the Hammer as well.
Come on Janner, you know me ... And with all do respect. Let\'s get off eachothers back here, and trust the people you (once) called friends on their word.
[hit me with all you want, will reply to all of you after my 8 day snowboarding trip :D ]
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I have read through the thread and have only one comment. I don\'t really have a problem with ScOY\'s goals or methods. I have a problem with the name. I am a citizen of Yliakm and you are not my council. You may say you are not governmental, but the names implies that you are. Maybe you could be the sworn council of guilds or something like that. This is just an opinion from a simple citizen and nothing more.
Gris
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Originally posted by Gris
I have read through the thread and have only one comment. I don\'t really have a problem with ScOY\'s goals or methods. I have a problem with the name. I am a citizen of Yliakm and you are not my council. You may say you are not governmental, but the names implies that you are. Maybe you could be the sworn council of guilds or something like that. This is just an opinion from a simple citizen and nothing more.
Gris
In real life, organizations often adopt names which are misleading. Sometimes it is by accident, sometimes it is on purpose. Sometimes, it is simply a misunderstanding. Whatever the case may be, I think that SCoY can keep their name.
A good example of this is \"The Green Party of Canada\". People in the last election voted for this party because they thought that \"Green Party\" meant that it was a left wing environmentalist party, much like the Green Party down in the USA.
However, the Green Party of Canada is actually very right wing with an anti-environment pro-corporation agenda.
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Originally posted by Gris
I have read through the thread and have only one comment. I don\'t really have a problem with ScOY\'s goals or methods. I have a problem with the name. I am a citizen of Yliakm and you are not my council. You may say you are not governmental, but the names implies that you are. Maybe you could be the sworn council of guilds or something like that. This is just an opinion from a simple citizen and nothing more.
Gris
I understand your point Gris. But we are all guilds of Yliakum. So while on first glance it may seem we are representing others, anyone who takes one more step into the subject will realize we do not represent everyone. We will most likely keep the name. But i am glad you brought that up, Gris..
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
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Firstly you would have power over only those of your guild you dont have to change the name but you might want to change the meaning The sworn Council of Yliakum to The Sworn Calvary of yliakum but noone will follow you exept your guild
Basically what your doing is like having a beggar crawl onto the street and yell I\'m rich!
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Is this thing supposed to be in character or out of character? Everything I\'m seeing seems awfully OOC.
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Originally posted by Nalain Tarek
Firstly you would have power over only those of your guild you dont have to change the name but you might want to change the meaning The sworn Council of Yliakum to The Sworn Calvary of yliakum but noone will follow you exept your guild
Basically what your doing is like having a beggar crawl onto the street and yell I\'m rich!
I read this post over five times trying to get what you were saying. I don\'t understand what point you are trying to get across .... :/ I also agree with Zanzibar, very ooc indeed.
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the name hmm well don\'t see why people are so worked up about it.
Sworn stands for commitmend. Sworn to protect Yliakum. Sworn to do as the council decides even if you voted against it. So many possible meanings.
Council means it\'s led by several people and not just one. It doesn\'t imply anything on how is decided who comes in it nor who it rules if any. Council only implies somewhat that decicions will probably be made.
of Yliakum. Thats were we live isn\'t it? Or aleast our characters do. It\'s not even the whole world the game will eventually be placed in only the planes so it\'s jus a definition of where we are based and were we operate.
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nevermind that last post i thought council meant rulers about the last part thet just something i did to get my point across saying something doesnt make it true
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This should be discussed in game and in character, not like this.
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With disargreements about meaning like this it sometimes is hard to keep it ingame. I don\'t feel much for having the same discusion several times. And no don\'t feel this would be realistic compared to RL either.
Things like this are simply not talked about ingame like they would in real life. There is little talk about the little things and so in character news is hardly spread ingame.
So threads like this sometimes are needed to figure out how your character will react to things. To make things more realistic.
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Originally posted by Nalain Tarek
Firstly you would have power over only those of your guild you dont have to change the name but you might want to change the meaning The sworn Council of Yliakum to The Sworn Calvary of yliakum but noone will follow you exept your guild
Basically what your doing is like having a beggar crawl onto the street and yell I\'m rich!
First off, i do not understand the comparison here. Secondly, i don\'t understand what changing our name to the Sworn Calvary of Yliakum would do. But we already have taken note that these guilds are governing themselves:
I said before:
We also would like to add that, even though many people seem to think otherwise, we are in NO WAY A GOVERNMENT OF ANY SORT. Again, we DO NOT GOVERN ANYONE OTHER THAN THE MEMBER GUILDS WHO BOTH CHOSE TO JOIN AND ARE AN ACTIVE PART WITHIN THE COUNCIL.
As for OOC things. this forum is not meant to be IC. it can be, but obviously the tone has been set as primarily OOC. Within the council, we deal with both types of issues, but we like to keep it mainly RP for the satisfaction of the council itself.
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
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Originally posted by Nalain Tarek
nevermind that last post i thought council meant rulers about the last part thet just something i did to get my point across saying something doesnt make it true
If something has support it can become very real and true. I believe SCoY will have that support.
*Sighs* I can\'t understand what is wrong with a bunch of guilds banding together, discussing and working through issues together. I think the people who have issues with SCoY are grasping at straws and I have yet to see a good point made in this thread for me to believe that SCoY isn\'t good for Yliakum. (At least the people who have developed SCoY are making for some interesting roleplay, have YOU (As in the people complaining) done anything in planeshift to boost about) :/
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Originally posted by zorbels
Originally posted by Nalain Tarek
nevermind that last post i thought council meant rulers about the last part thet just something i did to get my point across saying something doesnt make it true
If something has support is can become very real and true. I believe SKoY will have that support.
*Sighs* I can\'t understand what is wrong with a bunch of guilds banning together, discussing and working through issues together. I think the people who have issues with SKoY are grasping at straws and I have yet to see a good point made in this thread for me to believe that SKoY isn\'t good for Yliakum. (At least the people who have developed SKoY are making for some interesting roleplay, have YOU (As in the people complaining) done anything in planeshift to boost about) :/
I think I have made a very good contribution to this game, DON\'T you ? also he/she is allowed to stat his or her thoughts,
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Originally posted by r.guppy
I think I have made a very good contribution to this game, DON\'T you ? also he/she is allowed to stat his or her thoughts,
Never said he didn\'t have that right . *goes to look again* Nope still don\'t see where I stated don\'t say your opinion. Actually if anything my post was to encourage him to talk about it in game, or make an anti SCoY \"Calvary\" of his own for example.
Please stop looking for ways to pick me apart. :/ and others.
You say you contribute. Well great, then maybe you can be an example to those who are complaining but are not doing anything about it. This has been blowen way out of proportion and the people who have worked on SCoY deserve a little more respect in my opinion.
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Originally posted by Pestilence
With disargreements about meaning like this it sometimes is hard to keep it ingame. I don\'t feel much for having the same discusion several times. And no don\'t feel this would be realistic compared to RL either.
Things like this are simply not talked about ingame like they would in real life. There is little talk about the little things and so in character news is hardly spread ingame.
So threads like this sometimes are needed to figure out how your character will react to things. To make things more realistic.
Keep it in game, i think his post answers that.
I am just stating my thoughts.as was Nalain Tarek
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Originally posted by r.guppy
Keep it in game, i think his post answers that.
I am just stating my thoughts.as was Nalain Tarek
Well you are repeating the same statement again and again ....
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Originally posted by Cyl
Originally posted by r.guppy
Keep it in game, i think his post answers that.
I am just stating my thoughts.as was Nalain Tarek
Well you are repeating the same statement again and again ....
Nope sorry i haven\'t said it before.the first part.
(*We are not curently representing those who are independant from guilds, however, we wish to implement a system to do so in the future*)
But this is new from your web sight. expansion plans already .
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Despite the fact we don\'t feel your critique is constructive and despite that we don\'t agree with most of what you are saying about SCoY we do listen and YOU were the one that said that it wasn\'t fair we didn\'t give them a voice and so that is being looked into..
As for keeping it ingame. Are you serious? Better have a look at your own posts.
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Originally posted by Pestilence
As for keeping it ingame. Are you serious? Better have a look at your own posts.
Erm was replying to zorbels post there She wont\'s it in game you don\'t, are you both on the same side or not.
As for my post, I may be crud in the way I go about things but I try to get my point over, were as you all seam to differ on how to do things.
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Originally posted by r.guppy
Erm was replying to zorbels post there She wont\'s it in game you don\'t, are you both on the same side or not.
As for my post, I may be crud in the way I go about things but I try to get my point over, were as you all seam to differ on how to do things.
Might I remind you Janner of this .......
Originally posted by Zorbels
I have never been to a SCoY meeting, and I didn\'t help set it up SCoY or it\'s system. My guild is apart of SCoY. Other than that all of what I have said come from my own personal opinions, not SCoY\'s.
I know the same information about SCoY as you Janner. I don\'t appreciate being mocked. I haven\'t sat down with Pestilence to discuss anything with him so it is most probable that our opinions will be different. Of course we are on the same \"side,\" we both believe in SCoY. I push for in game because this would make great roleplay and spice things up. I believe this can be dealt with in character. All of our opinions are here on this thread and now is the time to bring it into game other wise is it not considered spam? I happen to not agree fully with Pestilence second last post, though some points are noted and I partially agree. That does not make us \"not on the same side.\" You will never have a group of people who work together and agree on everything all the time. I feel you are just trying to sabotage SCoY with remarks that really have nothing to do with SCoY anyway. What does it matter if I want it in game and Pestilence feels it is better dealt with here? That has nothing to do with SCoY and what it stands for, or the good it can do for the community. Let me ask you something? Why not give SCoY a chance? If it fails then you can have a \"See I told you so!\" moment. I hope through all of this I do not offend you Janner because that is not my intention. I just hope that this negitive on SCoY can stop soon, and that this thread could be fill more with positive comments and helping those in SCoY be constructive and prosper. Like I said before the people who put this organization together deserve a little respect.
[Edit] I also forgot to mention that this has and will continue to be talked about in game. There are many who have used it in the roleplay.
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My intention was not to mock you zorbels, mearly pointing out Pestilence point of view.
As for positive comments, that is up to players to do so if they wish.
\"Like I said before the people who put this organization together deserve a little respect.\"
YOU have a right to think that I have a right NOT too.
Plane and simple I dont see a need for this SCoY. You do.
Are guild leaders that weak they cant decide for there self or within there guilds what to do. Must it be put to the vote or whot ever SCoY do.
I am sorry but cant see why it was felt a need for this SCoY.
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What is the most basic point of a guild? To band people of similar convictions. What is the most basic point and purpose of a larger organization, then, Janner?
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If you don\'t like it, then don\'t join it. Problem solved. Can we go home now?
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Originally posted by Karyuu
What is the most basic point of a guild? To band people of similar convictions. What is the most basic point and purpose of a larger organization, then, Janner?
Well i think you need to read there web page and find out, Also i point out they intend to band good evil chaos and order all four different and cant possibly be of one mind.
So you tell me how it will work because i cant see a way it will, also been talking to let us say the other side of good in game and they fell the same, also would like to point out only good alined guilds so far been posted as joining.
So stop clamming to represent guilds as you only have one of four sides to guilds to speak for.
Also would like to know what guild Easton was in before forming his new guild, as I understand it from reading rules for guilds by guilds and guilds on council, If he did not belong to a guild then it contradicts him being President.
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I\'m not even going to quote you janner. I was in Swords of Ghent as i know you well know. the fact that you act like you just forgot is infuriating. and if you actually forgot, then consider me furious. Secondly, i went through some hard times, and i was forced to disband my guild. this is both a personal situation, and one i hold very closely and consider a serious failure of mine. I thank you for showing absolutely no respect. (in case you did not understand, that was a sarcastic comment.)
Me not being in a guild actually worked out for me. Because, as im *sure* you know Janner, the president does not vote in everyday votes unless there is a tie in the votes. Therefore, it doesn\'t matter if im in a guild or not. if im in one, i have two ambassadors who speak on behalf of the guild. if im not in a guild, then it works to have an independent president. But, if you were to object to my lacking of a guild (which is odd as you have a guild for those who wish not to be in guilds) well, i have a guild now. We are called the Survivors of Berne. In fact, we have a purpose Janner, and we have a forum post too. A whole RP story and everything. yep..
Janner, i reject any friendship we may have ever had. you have insulted me and my friends for the last time. Everyone knows i can handle criticism, and i have, and i was ready for criticism. But what you have displayed in this thread has completely discredited you. I supported you when others laughed in your face. I didn\'t have to. But i did. and now, you have nothing but petty arguments about things that don\'t make any sense. nor do they affect you in any way. And you refuse to acknowledge a guild i had. a guild i had pride in. I recognize your \"nonguild\" and you turn around and deny the existence of my guild, and a council i set up.
Also, ive seen you several times in game, and you have mentioned nothing to me about your thoughts on this in any in character way.
Take a step back and think about what you\'re doing to yourself here. I promise you that this council will not dissolve because of anything you do. We would like to work with you to improve ourselves in your eyes, but you have given us nothing. not one thing. just accusing two people who don\'t even sit on the council, of disagreeing. The council, janner, is based on disagreement. We will all disagree, especially as we grow, and more guilds with different thoughts bring their two tria to the table. you refuse to even recognize that table. so fine. the table will never suit you i guess. no problem. but just know, that you have ruined many potential friendships. good luck making a living in a hostile world janner. because you\'re going to be very very alone. and don\'t bother apologizing. im not in a forgiving mood after what you have said here.
i hope anyone who reads this takes note of what i have said, and then reads the janner\'s way thread, along with this entire thread from beginning to end. ALSO-- take note that the council did propose Janner\'s way addition to the council but then he disbanded his guild and left Yliakum.
EDIT: from the janner\'s way thread after many people criticized his lack of organization: *reads the entire thread*
to get back to the point of havign a \"guild thread\", i would like to wish you luck Janner. any sort of a safe haven is simply that, and i can understand the frustration with mass-recruiters. so i hope to see that your guild continues to provide people with a place to go where no other guilds can invite them until they get so fed up they decide to leave Planeshift..
that was the objective part.. here comes the small, vague, generalization part of the post that is merely and completely subjective..
people are way too uptight around here it seems as of late. a guild is a guild.. is a guild. if you don\'t like it, ignore it. and Talamir: please don\'t ever reply to a post if you didn\'t read it. you know how ignorant that is.
Good luck Sir Janner!
Easton Ghent
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Originally posted by Easton
I\'m not even going to quote you janner. I was in Swords of Ghent as i know you well know. the fact that you act like you just forgot is infuriating. and if you actually forgot, then consider me furious. Secondly, i went through some hard times, and i was forced to disband my guild. this is both a personal situation, and one i hold very closely and consider a serious failure of mine. I thank you for showing absolutely no respect. (in case you did not understand, that was a sarcastic comment.)
Me not being in a guild actually worked out for me. Because, as im *sure* you know Janner, the president does not vote in everyday votes unless there is a tie in the votes. Therefore, it doesn\'t matter if im in a guild or not. if im in one, i have two ambassadors who speak on behalf of the guild. if im not in a guild, then it works to have an independent president. But, if you were to object to my lacking of a guild (which is odd as you have a guild for those who wish not to be in guilds) well, i have a guild now. We are called the Survivors of Berne. In fact, we have a purpose Janner, and we have a forum post too. A whole RP story and everything. yep..
For your personal reasons i am sorry. but nothing to do with the point i was trying to make you were without a guild, yet you were the head of a guild of guilds, whereas no others could be, that was my point.
Janner, i reject any friendship we may have ever had. you have insulted me and my friends for the last time. Everyone knows i can handle criticism, and i have, and i was ready for criticism. But what you have displayed in this thread has completely discredited you. I supported you when others laughed in your face. I didn\'t have to. But i did. and now, you have nothing but petty arguments about things that don\'t make any sense. nor do they affect you in any way. And you refuse to acknowledge a guild i had. a guild i had pride in. I recognize your \"nonguild\" and you turn around and deny the existence of my guild, and a council i set up.
Thats ok by me, you not liking me, Discredited ? you can think and say what you like, so can I. As for your support I thank you in that and did so in my thread. Like you if I fell something is wrong i say so. I don\'t deny you were in a guild previously. I pointed out you were not in a guild yet you were in a position no non guild member could be in.
Also, ive seen you several times in game, and you have mentioned nothing to me about your thoughts on this in any in character way.
Works both ways you are the one trying to sell this, you to could have talked to me.
Take a step back and think about what you\'re doing to yourself here. I promise you that this council will not dissolve because of anything you do. We would like to work with you to improve ourselves in your eyes, but you have given us nothing. not one thing. just accusing two people who don\'t even sit on the council, of disagreeing. The council, janner, is based on disagreement. We will all disagree, especially as we grow, and more guilds with different thoughts bring their two tria to the table. you refuse to even recognize that table. so fine. the table will never suit you i guess. no problem. but just know, that you have ruined many potential friendships. good luck making a living in a hostile world janner. because you\'re going to be very very alone. and don\'t bother apologizing. im not in a forgiving mood after what you have said here.
Sounds like a threat to me, very in with your rules, so much for sorting out problems for others if you resort to Threats .
i hope anyone who reads this takes note of what i have said, and then reads the janner\'s way thread, along with this entire thread from beginning to end. ALSO-- take note that the council did propose Janner\'s way addition to the council but then he disbanded his guild and left Yliakum.
EDIT: from the janner\'s way thread after many people criticized his lack of organization: *reads the entire thread*
to get back to the point of havign a \"guild thread\", i would like to wish you luck Janner. any sort of a safe haven is simply that, and i can understand the frustration with mass-recruiters. so i hope to see that your guild continues to provide people with a place to go where no other guilds can invite them until they get so fed up they decide to leave Planeshift..
that was the objective part.. here comes the small, vague, generalization part of the post that is merely and completely subjective..
people are way too uptight around here it seems as of late. a guild is a guild.. is a guild. if you don\'t like it, ignore it. and Talamir: please don\'t ever reply to a post if you didn\'t read it. you know how ignorant that is.
Good luck Sir Janner!
Easton Ghent
Wont bother replying to rest exempt yes please do read my guild post if you wont, the last post by you still needs a answer, i supplied the proof you asked and still waiting for a reply in the thread, yes i got your PM.
Good luck to you too.
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Originally posted by Easton
so fine. the table will never suit you i guess. no problem. but just know, that you have ruined many potential friendships. good luck making a living in a hostile world janner. because you\'re going to be very very alone. and don\'t bother apologizing. im not in a forgiving mood after what you have said here.
[QUOTE/]
Guess he\'ll have to live and love outside of SCoY like the rest of us.
Anfa waves at Janner
Congratulations on looking into a way of allowing non-guild peoples of Yialkum to have a voice in your council. I am eager to see how you manage such a complicated problem of so many sharing one or two voices when they have no united beginning. [not already in a guild to start is what I mean about united beginning]
And good luck on your SCoY
Anfa
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my personal problems with janner..er.. his personal problems with me, do not affect whether or not janner\'s way is accepted into the council. if he wanted to, he could join and there\'d be no problem, but he won\'t. he\'s too busy picking apart everything while providing nothing for the rest of us. im beginning to wonder if janner\'s way is a guild of chaotic alignment, as that would make a bit more sense.
Back to Topic....
The DE is entering the council. along with the Hidden Mentors, and the Dark Shadows. so let\'s all welcome the newest guilds to enter the SCoY.
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
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Originally posted by Easton
my personal problems with janner..er.. his personal problems with me, do not affect whether or not janner\'s way is accepted into the council.
*evil grin*
Originally posted by Easton
The DE is entering the council.
*gasp* An evil guild among your ranks? Perhaps Janner was right about everything!
Originally posted by Easton
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
Stay safe indeed. muh ha ha ha
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originally posted by r.guppy
So you tell me how it will work because i cant see a way it will, also been talking to let us say the other side of good in game and they fell the same, also would like to point out only good alined guilds so far been posted as joining.
That is what I meant by sit back and watch. *Points below to her quote* You don\'t get something to work without testing it first. For heaven\'s sake SCoY just came to be, and your already expecting miracles.
originally posted by Zorbels
Let me ask you something? Why not give SCoY a chance? If it fails then you can have a \"See I told you so!\" moment.
As for these people that have the same opinion. Are you now their spokes person Janner? Or can they be brave enough to voice their own opinion\'s so that we know that \"these people feel the same way\" do exsist.
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Originally posted by Easton
Back to Topic....
The DE is entering the council. along with the Hidden Mentors, and the Dark Shadows. so let\'s all welcome the newest guilds to enter the SCoY.
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
Lies ....
Propaganda ? using such a method to make advertising isn\'t fair ... You just discredit the DE from their allies.
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I would like to keep this discussion as much in game as possible. as the forums are mainly for ooc information.
moving on.. apparently i mispoke. i had ver good reason to think the DE were joining, but as of right now, Setill has decided not to join. so i take back what i said. i hope it didn\'t affect anyone too badly.
Last note: i really like the rp we have going with this current situation. just remember, its rp. so keep it in game and out of the forums please. thanks.
Easton Ghent
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I don\'t think the reason was that good. Before stating in public something you should confirm it... Unless it is your intention to spread false rumors, which is great as long as its in-game (roleplayed).
By Janner:
... would like to point out only good alined guilds so far been posted as joining.
There\'s no such thing as alignments in PS. Everyone should try to keep this in mind.
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Originally posted by Sangwa
I don\'t think the reason was that good. Before stating in public something you should confirm it... Unless it is your intention to spread false rumors, which is great as long as its in-game (roleplayed).
By Janner:
... would like to point out only good alined guilds so far been posted as joining.
There\'s no such thing as alignments in PS. Everyone should try to keep this in mind.
There are alignments, but it\'s subjective. There are guilds that identify themselves as being \"good\", but even evil people think that they\'re doing good things. The guilds which say they\'re out to cause death and destruction usually have a reason to justify it, so they\'re also \'good\' in their own eyes.
If a guild identifies itself as evil OOC, then that\'s ok to me. If the guild identifies itself as evil IN CHARACTER, then I usually raise an eyebrow because a guild or character shouldn\'t identify itself as \"evil\" unless it\'s having issues with guilt etc.
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There are alignments, but it\'s subjective.
Exactly, subjectiveness serves information rather poorly.
It\'s a fact that PS has no alginment system, even though some people have it in their minds.
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Originally posted by Sangwa
I don\'t think the reason was that good. Before stating in public something you should confirm it...
well maybe when we talk we can clear things up. only if you\'d like to talk of course.
Easton Ghent
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By Easton
that you have ruined many potential friendships. good luck making a living in a hostile world janner. because you\'re going to be very very alone.
Seams I am not all alone in a hostile world after all.
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Originally posted by r.guppy
By Easton
that you have ruined many potential friendships. good luck making a living in a hostile world janner. because you\'re going to be very very alone.
Seams I am not all alone in a hostile world after all.
i really think you are blurring the line between roleplay and ooc. the DE and IS are RPing with the SCoY. you.. i highly doubt you are rping.
Easton Ghent
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Originally posted by Easton
Nice to hear from you Valbrandr. Glad to see you around still.
As for your question.. we currently have these guilds:
The Defenders, The Protectors, The Dragon Council, Woiperdinger (spelling, sorry), Plakkem Hverrjanor, Way of the Hammer, and Ruby Regin.
I think its a good mix, but it could be better of course. We are looking for all kinds of guilds. Again, its wonderful to hear from you my friend. I hope to see you soon.
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
I talked with a high ranking member of one of these guilds. He admitted that he doesn`t even know what SCoY is. I told him what i know about this council and also that his guild is listed as a member. A day later he declared that his guild probably joined the SCoY because they just don`t wanted to get expelled from a community.
Now it seems that the SCoY stands beside the community, as Janner mentioned and in what i agree with him.
Maybe the Dark Empire is not the only guild which was listed as a member without confirmation...
And when guilds join the SCoY without political ambitions just to prevent disadvantages; then Easton, is only YOUR guild the SCoY and the whole organization becomes useless.
Herleva, soldier in Dark Empire
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Originally posted by Herleva
I talked with a high ranking member of one of these guilds. He admitted that he doesn`t even know what SCoY is.
Well then maybe the guild master should have his guild mates a little more informed. Seems pointless to join an organization when you guild knows nothing about it. Point is SCoY is not responsible for that.
Originally posted by Herleva
I told him what i know about this council and also that his guild is listed as a member. A day later he declared that his guild probably joined the SCoY because they just don`t wanted to get expelled from a community.
That is a bunch of bull. Nobody cares in the community if you join SCoY or not. I am sure SCoY would be happy with new guilds joining but I am sorry expelled for the community? No one has that power. Not even the longest standing guilds.
Originally posted by Herleva
Maybe the Dark Empire is not the only guild which was listed as a member without confirmation...
Sangwa? Easton? Is this true?
Originally posted by r.guppy
Seams I am not all alone in a hostile world after all.
Janner that statement is just being petty. :/ You have said your peace, so unless you have something new to add stop poking Easton with a stick. If I wanted to see five year olds fight I would go to the park. :/
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By zorbels
Janner that statement is just being petty. :/ You have said your peace, so unless you have something new to add stop poking Easton with a stick. If I wanted to see five year olds fight I would go to the park. :/
In my humble thoughts so is this....
By zorbels
As for these people that have the same opinion. Are you now their spokes person Janner? Or can they be brave enough to voice their own opinion\'s so that we know that \"these people feel the same way\" do exsist.
So I think is this.......
By Easton
i really think you are blurring the line between roleplay and ooc. the DE and IS are RPing with the SCoY. you.. i highly doubt you are rping.
Also would like to point out he asked to talk [in one of his posts] So I tried He said he was happy to answer ,but did not and then walked away
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:O 666 posts.
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Originally posted by Sangwa
:O 666 posts.
You little devil :P.
Well back on topic:
Janner, maybe I am haveing understanding issues, but the only sense I can make out in your last post is the random quoting of other forum members.
I tried to stay out of this argument, but you managed to drive me to it:
Just because something didnt work in the past doesnt mean that it cannot work. Other people, other organisation, other times ... Many factors can make a guild/organisation/alliance die or live.
Noone forced the guilds to join, no guild is prohibited. From what I can see, the SCoY is no \"guild of guilds\" it is rather a ground on which guilds in Yliakum can make a clean table and discuss matters, so that every party is satisfied. What is so wrong with that? If you take a look at it, it is already prohibating possible wars by putting different guilds on the same table to discuss matters of tension.
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Originally posted by Herleva
I talked with a high ranking member of one of these guilds. He admitted that he doesn`t even know what SCoY is. I told him what i know about this council and also that his guild is listed as a member. A day later he declared that his guild probably joined the SCoY because they just don`t wanted to get expelled from a community.
I\'ve though such thing would happen. After all, it\'s it already guild who recruit newcomers without explantions about theyre goal. That\'s only on another level.
After a look at this long thread, I\'m still uncertain about the SCoY goals. Hmm... a group of great personalities who meet and take obscure decisions, what\'s wrong if I join this kind of aristocraty?
In fact, the only reason I see to join is to be in the group whatever it could make rather than follow my own way.
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Originally posted by zorbels
Originally posted by Herleva
Maybe the Dark Empire is not the only guild which was listed as a member without confirmation...
Sangwa? Easton? Is this true?
Questions like that would be best asked in game and in character.
Originally posted by Cyl
Noone forced the guilds to join, no guild is prohibited.
That\'s not exactly true. When SCoY began, it was supposed to only be for guild that consider themselves \"good\". The purpose of SCoY was to defend the PS world from \"evil\". I guess SCoY has evolved.
Also, it seems that people want membership in SCoY because they\'re afraid of what will happen to them if they decline. Also, SCoY has been presumptuous and has declared certain guilds as members when they are not members.
Now, I don\'t have a problem with Easton making mistakes and spreading lies! I think spreading lies is great! But it should be in game and in character, and it should be done with intent and purpose! Really there\'s no reason for ANY of this discussion to happen in the forums. Almost everything that has happened in this thread has been completely out of character, especially the personal grudges flying around.
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God people SCoY is like the United Nations in Real life. (If you don\'t know what is it look it up on the internet) How hard is it to figure out ......
There are no good nor evil guilds in the eyes of SCoY. (Or at least there shouldn\'t be)
Originally posted by Zanzibar
Also, it seems that people want membership in SCoY because they\'re afraid of what will happen to them if they decline.
Oh really? Do enlighten me on what there is to be afraid of? Hmmm.....?
@janner My statement had a point and a question. Yours was pointless and petty no matter how much you quote me.
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Originally posted by zorbels
God people SCoY is like the United Nations in Real life. (If you don\'t know what is it look it up on the internet) How hard is it to figure out ......
Because it does not fit in Yliakum. According the UN site http://www.un.org/Overview/brief.html :
Day in and day out, the UN and its family of organizations work to promote respect for human rights, protect the environment, fight disease and reduce poverty.
I never see such cases in Yliakum. Well.. I sometime protect the environment sweeping things on the floor, but I do it OOC ;-)
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Originally posted by zorbels
Oh really? Do enlighten me on what there is to be afraid of? Hmmm.....?
Certain people might be afraid of becoming outsiders, or they\'re afraid of being labelled as enemies. I\'m not saying that those fears are at all justified, but they seem to be around in some circles.
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Please do not mention the DE thing here as this has become an rp situation. Just to publicly post though, the council did meet and discuss this matter today. We will be speaking with Sangwa about the misunderstanding as soon as we run into sangwa. until then, i would say everything is speculation.
moving on..
@Herleva: again, if a guild makes decisions based on one person\'s thoughts (like the DE and the Princess) then they do not have to consult the rest of the guild. We hope that everyone would be notified, but each guild is run how they wish to run it. Again, we do not control these guilds. We simply share information. Your accusation to my guild being the SCoY shows your lack of understanding of this situation. And i say that with all due respect. My guild started up less than one week ago. Ask anyone, if they feel i dictate too much in the council, if im too controlling. I leave it to them. They can vote me out anytime they\'d like. but again, i feel you must be missing a bit of information if you are making accusations like that.
@narita- maybe you should check out the website and not just the thread. http://ugo.sinet.it/scoy also.. we are in no way an aristocracy. That makes no sense to me. i would be interested to hear more about your thoughts though..
@Sangwa: congrats, but come on.. also.. still waiting to see you so we can have a chat.. PM me if you would like to set a time or something.
@Zanzibar: nope, that is exactly true. any guild can join, [even non-guilds] no guild has to. period.
@Zorbels: Ogu will fill you in on today\'s meeting.
One last very very important note. From now on this thread is 100% entirely genuine OOC chat. Do not be confused. From this post on.. all is OOC okay? This is meant for constructive criticism on the council and its charter. and general communication between the council and the public. there is to be ABSOLUTELY NO ROLEPLAY IN THIS THREAD. Thank you.
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
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@ easton Loud and clear I have heard you and I shall keep your request clear in my head as all of what I have said on this thread is ooc. Thank you I will speak with ogu in ps.
@narita You misunderstood. I said like the UN. I did not say it is the UN. The idea of SCoY is close through, all nations (Guilds) working together to resolve matters that may plague them.
@Zanzibar I guess I can see your point and thank you for answering. Though it does seem silly and the ones worried about such things must be new players. I know for a fact that no one in SCoY would hold it against any person who didn\'t want to join. If anything they only want guilds and members to join if they are willing and will take SCoY seriously.
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Just a note for future reference:
Milana of the Defenders has been given the role of Spokesperson for the SCoY. In the future when we post on the forums about the SCoY\'s public stance on issues that we take on, she will be the one posting and the one to talk to. Congratulations to her..
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
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OK lets try a different approach to this to calm things down.
this from your History \"Guilds of the highest caliber were carefully chosen\"
Implies only those considered by you the SCoY to be the best. Is at best misleading.
Also this is the same from your Mission Statement \"To ensure the well-being of all in Yliakum by learning about and preventing any conflicts from destroying the peace that we all hold dear.\" Implies you will make discussions on all things NOT just for your Council member guilds.
Also the Council is a word that implies that you are elected from the people of a town, and before you go into it also means this or that, i am pointing out most will see it the same as me.
So to sum up a bit more clarity in the above mentioned, and i think a lot will be resolved.
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Originally posted by r.guppy
this from your History \"Guilds of the highest caliber were carefully chosen\"
Implies only those considered by you the SCoY to be the best. Is at best misleading.
Originally posted by Easton
@Zanzibar: nope, that is exactly true. any guild can join, [even non-guilds] no guild has to. period
Any guilds or any \"the highest caliber\" can sit at your round table ?
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Guys....
People lie, people misrepresent themselves, people make mistakes, and people send out contradictory signals and information.
But I think that we can react to it in character and in game, can\'t we? If SCoY\'s actions and motives are IC, then we should react to them IC as well.
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Originally posted by r.guppy
OK lets try a different approach to this to calm things down.
this from your History \"Guilds of the highest caliber were carefully chosen\"
Implies only those considered by you the SCoY to be the best. Is at best misleading.
Also this is the same from your Mission Statement \"To ensure the well-being of all in Yliakum by learning about and preventing any conflicts from destroying the peace that we all hold dear.\" Implies you will make discussions on all things NOT just for your Council member guilds.
Also the Council is a word that implies that you are elected from the people of a town, and before you go into it also means this or that, i am pointing out most will see it the same as me.
So to sum up a bit more clarity in the above mentioned, and i think a lot will be resolved.
First off, thank you for organizing your thoughts Janner.
Yes according to our History the \"highest calibur guilds were chosen\". History is past tense. In the beginning, we only chose those that we felt other\'s would look to with respect. however, we had in mind the fact that one day (when we went public) we would allow all guilds to join. Our stance now is that any guild can join. Any guild may also not join. Check the requirements page...
I will edit this post later today.. for now i must go.. sorry.. hang tight for a few hours..
EDIT: Eolius pretty much sums everything up down there.. soo...
Easton
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Dear Janner, i think you overstepped already the limits of constructive criticism. I stated it before and I\'ll say it again, you are clinging to questions of SEMANTICS. It is very clear that you don\'t like us. So what? Leave us alone then. I think this thread has already gone too far and people are always obliged to answer your unfounded questions about us.
Originally posted by r.guppy
this from your History \"Guilds of the highest caliber were carefully chosen\"
Implies only those considered by you the SCoY to be the best. Is at best misleading.
Who do you think that should have chosen the guilds that were invited the first time? God? You? I don\'t think that you can come up with an answer to that question. Read some philosophy. There is no absolute objectivity, so you are confronting us with a paradox. We can\'t be objective, yes, but neither can you or anybody else.
Originally posted by r.guppy
Also this is the same from your Mission Statement \"To ensure the well-being of all in Yliakum by learning about and preventing any conflicts from destroying the peace that we all hold dear.\" Implies you will make discussions on all things NOT just for your Council member guilds.
Yes, we will discuss things \"NOT just for your Council member guilds\" like \"Hey, this guild is waging war agains that guild. Let\'s see what is our position on that matter and let\'s send a delegation to the leaders of those guilds to try and stop this war.\"
Correct me if I\'m wrong but i don\'t see that as being a problem. We don\'t TAKE decisions instead somebody else and we have no power of doing that.
Originally posted by r.guppy
Also the Council is a word that implies that you are elected from the people of a town, and before you go into it also means this or that, i am pointing out most will see it the same as me.
Funny that nobody see it the same as you. I see no posts sustaining your point of view. \"Council\" doesn\'t imply that \"we are elected from the people of a town\", the word \"council\" actually means \"-A formally constituted advisory, deliberative, or administrative body. (Origin: from Latin \"concilium\" = convocation, assembly)\". Unless those that wrote the Oxford English dictionary know less than you...
Oh, btw, the colours of your post are nice though...
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Companies and politicians call themselves misleading things all the time. Just RP it!
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Certain people might be afraid of becoming outsiders, or they\'re afraid of being labelled as enemies. I\'m not saying that those fears are at all justified, but they seem to be around in some circles.
when you say it like that it gives an impression that you have no other choise ;/
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i\'m not going to say anymore as i do\'nt want to be drawn into this... i have nothing to do with this. To much ooc also!
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Originally posted by Eolius
Funny that nobody see it the same as you. I see no posts sustaining your point of view.
Sorry, I have been letting my views be known in game...didn\'t realize you wanted me to post them here..
If you want me to post my objections to SCoY in this thread let me know...
Anfa waves at Janner
Cheers
Anfa
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Well if SCoY EVER interferes in ANY of my or my guilds affairs without an invite, i will make it my mission to destroy you all!!!
Just thought I would let you know!
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Originally posted by Proteous
Well if SCoY EVER interferes in ANY of my or my guilds affairs without an invite, i will make it my mission to destroy you all!!!
Just thought I would let you know!
I want to add your signature too as it is part of my remark...
Proteous\' signature \"Am I not destroying my enemies when i make friends of them?\"
**************************
So Proteous, are you Joining the SCoY then?
Araye
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I dont need to, i already have 2 people working for me on the inside..
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Originally posted by Proteous
Well if SCoY EVER interferes in ANY of my or my guilds affairs without an invite, i will make it my mission to destroy you all!!!
Just thought I would let you know!
You would also be attacking people you used to consider family at one point. What was the point of that threat anyway? They can\'t really interfere with your guild unless you ask or allow them to and SCoY is out to do good, not bad.*Zorbels shakes her head sadly and walks away*
>.>
<.<
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I can\'t believe it, but I agree with Zanzibar on this. It should be roleplayed to the fullest and not discussed here.
Easton and Janner: you two are/were friends. You should not let a roleplay interfere with that friendship. I realize that Easton has put a lot of thought into this and only has good intentions and is now intimately \"involved\" with those ideas/ideals. But Easton must remember, this is a roleplay too and that everyone isn\'t just going to say, \"that Easton, he\'s a real good bloke, where do I signup?\". Even if they personally \"know\" you. We\'re \"acting\" and you must convince them by acting.
Janner, you should realize his attachment and give him a little space to breathe. You (Easton) need to be less critical of Janner for his oppinions as you asked for them. And Janner, please have the \"character Janner\" bring these issues forward in game. Easton has given you an invitation to attend one. Take him up on it. Raise the fuss there. I do agree that from the outside, the SCoY could appear to have some sinister/secretive/elitist look and feel. So roleplay it and don\'t personally attack your friend OOC.
You two have a lot of passion for your ideas and that is commendable. It\'s good to have vision and the guts to attempt to put those ideas into action. But you don\'t have to make this into a real life argument, because it isn\'t. I\'m a little disappointed to have seen Easton finally \"loose it\" with Janner. I\'m sure Easton was/is very hurt and feels personally betrayed by his friend. But, when you get to that point... take a step back and remember, we\'re playing a game.
Even if it turns out to be a huge mistake and failure, it will have been a fun (remember that word?) experience. So let the opposing guilds show up and demand answers... That would be awesome! Vision people, vision!
******************************
On the other side I would like to thank Easton for putting the SCoY together. I think we (the characters of PS) need a council like this. I would also like to thank both Janner and Anfa for bringing to light why guilds with a similar \"mission statement\" as the SCoY may oppose the SCoY. I hadn\'t seen their side before and I didn\'t consider their input before I became an ambassador. Not that it would have changed my mind, but I like to have as much information as possible before making a commitment to something.
I look forward to seeing the outcome of this idea. I do hope the disagreements can be resolved and the SCoY fulfill it\'s mission. But however it goes down, let it do so IN GAME!
Araye
EDIT: at Zorbels, this post is OOC and the point of it is that it must be \"rp\'d in game\"
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*Sighs* Araye it is being roleplayed out in game. This thread is for the ooc dicussions.
[Edit] @ Araye Iam not one to dispute this being roleplayed in game because I am one of the ones who posted that it should. Many times it has been mentioned in this thread by Zanzibar, myself and others. Easton has asked for this to be an ooc thread, and so it shall be. This issue with SCoY is being roleplayed out in game. You just have to be at the right place at the right time.
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*makes some popcorn*
*eats it*
Don\'t stop now....
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/me joins Zanzibar (unbelievable...) and starts eating popcorn.
I\'m really sorry to say but this thread has gone beyond the limits of immaturity and it is degrading into stupidity. With all the threats, the \"!!!\", the \"#@$%\" and everything it is starting to prove that whatever your good intentions are, there will be always someone \"smart\" enough to accuse you of something. Also, I think this thread should be closed because it is going nowhere. Well... sort of nowhere... At least we find something interesting about some people. Wish I could say the news were pleasantly surprising...
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Get your own damned popcorn!
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It was my popcorn! I just joined you in eating popcorn! :p
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Fine then! Just stay away from mine, I made it!
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/me ignores the last couple posts and hopes they are deleted.
@Araye: I agree, the child-like arguments and accusations have been bothersome. I found myself losing my cool. I don\'t expect anyone to understand because Janner and i have gone back a while, and the way i reacted after that long of a time was due to my personal reasons. Janner can complain all he wants. he just needs to know that everything he says in game (if not in brackets) is RP and everything in this thread is OOC. i have this odd feeling that he might be confused about that, or maybe he forgot that. but Janner\'s ooc complaints in this thread and RP complaints are identical. and he won\'t even use the elements of his complaints in an rp format. for example.. he cited the scoy website several times in a discussion in the plaza. this is where i get bothered and i feel i am being attacked personally, not RP-wise. That is the difference between the arguments and discussions between Easton and others and Easton and Janner. So, as soon as he clears that all up and supplies the council with a revised list of complaints, criticizims, ideas, and thoughts, i find this all a large waste of time.
We made this thread for a reason. We want to hear what everyone has to say. We want to see people\'s interest, or their thoughts on improvement. Maybe people have objective questions (like anfa was doing). This is the purpose of this thread. We wish to better the council so we can maximize the efficiency of the council while keeping the most amount of people the most happy we can possibly make it. All RP aside.. say what you want..
(I also would like to mention once again that Milana has been given the role of Spokesperson. In the future, she will be posting the SCoY\'s official solutions and thoughts about the issues presented to us.)
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
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Help! Help! I\'m being oppressed!
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Well to give up so easy i must admit i did not think you would ever give up.
Back to point of my random post and sometimes incompressible ramblings., You have chosen to be a diplomat and in that you are being judged, no matter how personal and aggressive I or anyone TALKs to you KEEP your cool. Never lose it or resort to name calling or accusations, YOU are the one who has to keep order.
Also IT is wise to hear and understand no matter how hard it is to under stand. In all my ramblings the main sticking point was there and you ignored them, Your wording in you history etc was misleading and was being misunderstood, NOT once have you said you would look at that and were posable change the wording.
At the end of the Day words are all you have as a diplomat.
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I think maybe from this point on there should only be posts about
(a) The issue with SKoY (if you have one)
(b) You thoughts on a solution
(c) to state a comment or criticism. (Basically your feedback)
of course it will be ooc as easton has requested.
We know your issues Janner, and Easton we have watched you reply and answer Janners questions. There is no positive, or solutions coming from your argument and if anything it is causing other people to fight as well as side. It is also causing a bad out look on SCoY, or giving the impression that this not worth the time and head ache. That is a shame. I think SCoY deserves a chance. It is time to take it into PM\'s.
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I respectfully disagree with you Janner. If you can find one single post in which i, or another representative of the SCoY did not respond to you, then i accept your accusation of us ignoring you. Otherwise, i hope you realize that we have really tried very very hard to respond to you as well as we can.. but yes, i felt personally attacked by some of your posts as, in my eyes, you have said many things without thinking about them and seriously seriously made me angry at times. And then, you refuse to apologize. This is fine. I certainly am not going to disband and quit. I can take it.
/me reads Zorbels post and braces for a flood of PMs.
PM me, email me, post here, yell at your computer. ill try to respond to everyone.
a very tired,
Easton Ghent
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/pat Easton on the back
Comment: I think you are doing a wonderful job Easton and you know you have alot of good people supporting you. So at the end of the day just remember we all appreciate you sticking your neck out for SCoY. :D
*offers Easton a strawberry*
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After reading though this whole thread I found it to be a waste of time after the first post. The reason why I have found this is simple as quoted to this sticky thread:
AendarCallenlasse Moderator[/color]
Apparently, in my absence, the Guilds Forum moderation has slipped a little bit. So since I have recently returned I\'ll start cleaning things up a bit. A few rules:
The Guild Forums are made specifically for guild creation, guild questions/information, and guild recruitment. It is not to announce which guild member called you a loser. I don\'t care.
The forums or for public viewing, which means if you need to get your point across to one specific person, use the pm function.
Inter-guild communication should be taken to the guilds\' own forums.
Flaming and spamming are not tolerated. If you don\'t know what constitutes flaming or spamming feel free to ask me. But keep in mind, I\'m the moderator, which means moderation is based on my definition.
I allow for two threads maximum per guild. One general thread and one recruitment thread. Any more than that will be deleted.
For those of you who haven\'t seen my method of moderating, please keep one thing in mind: I am better than you, which means my word is final.
And you older people will already know this, but as usual there is one loop-hole in my rules. And that is to simply worship me.
So with those said this is more of General Discussion My best suggestion is to karyuu and Easton.
@karyuu: move this... let people banter if they feel that this is an absolute must but let them have a guild thread where is serves the intent.
@Easton: if karyuu does this make a new thread to help inform people about SCoY because reading thought this thread took me about 2 and 1/2 hours which is kind of silly. No worries I know I can read the web site ^^
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Aendar is a little demon with a mod stick when he\'s around, which can be great :P
I too think this needs to come to some sort of close, however. There is a lot of nitpicking, a strange lack of constructive criticisms, and overall the entire thread has become an argument between Janner and those who view SCoY in a more positive light.
I\'ve moved this to General Discussion, even though I no longer think that there is anything left to discuss. Easton is open for PMs, people are always open in-game for IC episodes, etc. Should there be a need for a new, better SCoY thread, the Guild Forum is open to you - as long as this mess will not be repeated. I would want to close this entirely, but as Dylia put it, feel free to banter on ;)
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/me kisses Karyuu and Dylia\'s feet
Thank you.
We are working on a post for the guilds forum that will be for the purpose of explaining our stance on issues that we are presented with. I won\'t explain more here.. Just wait for it.. okay?
Trying his hardest,
Easton Ghent
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I shall attempt to straighten this issue:
During a council with SCoY, Sengus, the Empire\'s negotiator, mentioned the Dark Empire\'s interest in being invited to the SCoY. However, never did he mention that the Empire did accept such an invitation.
This fact skipped the attention of the responsible of SCoY and triggered this situation.
Sengus should have reported to Setill, the responsible for the Dark Empire at that time, but something came up and he became unavaible. This contributed to the shock Setill felt when confronted with the news that surprised many as well. Some imperialists were outraged at this and so some of them attempted to resolve it in their way.
Obviously, the results of these attempts were not the most appropriate, since they were based on lack of information.
So, by Easton\'s request, I want to make it clear that Quitarias is not a spy and that the SCoY did not plot against the Empire. These assumptions were false, products of heated minds.
I\'d also like if the SCoY tried to judge the words of the future negotiators more thoroughly, in order to prevent this kind of issues from happening again. I know the Empire will attempt not to act this recklessly again.
For those of you less informed, The Dark Empire will not join SCoY despite the invitation it was granted.
Thank you,
Sangwa Raumo.
PS: Hey, no offending Zanzibar. You can insult him, but no offending!
[edit]Fixed a word[/edit]
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Originally posted by Sangwa
I shall attempt to straighten this issue:
During a council with SCoY, Sengus, the Empire\'s negotiator, mentioned the Dark Empire\'s interest in being invited to the SCoY. However, never did he mention that the Empire did accept such an invitation.
This fact skipped the attention of the responsible of SCoY and triggered this situation.
Sengus should have reported to Setill, the responsible for the Dark Empire at that time, but something came up and he became unavaible. This contributed to the shock Setill felt when confronted with the news that surprised many as well. Some imperialists were outraged at this and so some of them attempted to resolve it in their way.
Obviously, the results of these attempts were not the most appropriate, since they were based on lack of information.
So, by Easton\'s request, I want to make it clear that Quitarias is not a spy and that the SCoY did not plot against the Empire. These assumptions were false, products of heated minds.
I\'d also like if the SCoY tried to judge the words of the future negotiators more thoroughly, in order to prevent this kind of issues from happening again. I know the Empire will attempt not to act this recklessly again.
For those of you less informed, The Dark Empire will not join SCoY dispite the invitation it was granted.
Thank you,
Sangwa Raumo.
PS: Hey, no offending Zanzibar. You can insult him, but no offending!
There is very little we disagree with here. A bit of variation, but that is to be expected. I\'m glad we could work this out before it got too out of hand. Hopefully, this proves something to the public about the council and its effectiveness. While we regret your decision not to join, we still hope someday the DE will be a member.
Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent
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I was completely stunned to get a /tell from a GM [who I have a great deal of respect for] trying to sort out our differences. This is not on..GMs have enough to do.. without sorting out our differences..
I am sorry for the GM to have been put in such a position.
I don\'t see why you are so desperate to get my support; after that stunt, NO.
This color is to show how low I feel you have sunk to get your way, and I won\'t bother posting in this thread again.
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The Gm contacted me. I had no hand in getting that GM into this by any means. They were brought into it by a mistake apparently. And yes, i told that GM that i felt this was not GM territory, but it was explained to me that it very well could be. So, i figured there was no harm in a GM looking into things. I still generally disagree with the GM involvement, but i certainly did not bring them into this.
Easton Ghent
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I think r.guppy should change his name to \"m.grumpy\"
Come on, lighten up.
:P
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Originally posted by Araye
I can\'t believe it, but I agree with Zanzibar on this. It should be roleplayed to the fullest and not discussed here.
Easton and Janner: you two are/were friends. You should not let a roleplay interfere with that friendship. I realize that Easton has put a lot of thought into this and only has good intentions and is now intimately \"involved\" with those ideas/ideals. But Easton must remember, this is a roleplay too and that everyone isn\'t just going to say, \"that Easton, he\'s a real good bloke, where do I signup?\". Even if they personally \"know\" you. We\'re \"acting\" and you must convince them by acting.
Janner, you should realize his attachment and give him a little space to breathe. You (Easton) need to be less critical of Janner for his oppinions as you asked for them. And Janner, please have the \"character Janner\" bring these issues forward in game. Easton has given you an invitation to attend one. Take him up on it. Raise the fuss there. I do agree that from the outside, the SCoY could appear to have some sinister/secretive/elitist look and feel. So roleplay it and don\'t personally attack your friend OOC.
You two have a lot of passion for your ideas and that is commendable. It\'s good to have vision and the guts to attempt to put those ideas into action. But you don\'t have to make this into a real life argument, because it isn\'t. I\'m a little disappointed to have seen Easton finally \"loose it\" with Janner. I\'m sure Easton was/is very hurt and feels personally betrayed by his friend. But, when you get to that point... take a step back and remember, we\'re playing a game.
Even if it turns out to be a huge mistake and failure, it will have been a fun (remember that word?) experience. So let the opposing guilds show up and demand answers... That would be awesome! Vision people, vision!
******************************
On the other side I would like to thank Easton for putting the SCoY together. I think we (the characters of PS) need a council like this. I would also like to thank both Janner and Anfa for bringing to light why guilds with a similar \"mission statement\" as the SCoY may oppose the SCoY. I hadn\'t seen their side before and I didn\'t consider their input before I became an ambassador. Not that it would have changed my mind, but I like to have as much information as possible before making a commitment to something.
I look forward to seeing the outcome of this idea. I do hope the disagreements can be resolved and the SCoY fulfill it\'s mission. But however it goes down, let it do so IN GAME!
Araye
EDIT: at Zorbels, this post is OOC and the point of it is that it must be \"rp\'d in game\"
that sounds like something i could have said... but i didn\'t knew janner and easton very well, only their names but not their stance with eachother as friends...
@easton: sorry to say this but your last post kinda lay up to a big discussion again... correct me if i am wrong but it seems to me like it is going to be again... unless janner does what he says.
@eolius/zansibar: Peacer walks to the people eating popcorn with three bunches and gives 2 of them to zanzibar and eolius \"here you go now you can stop fighting about the popcorns [made me laugh :)]\"
@zorbels: agrees... i have misunderstood the SCoY\'s mission too... and what they are here for...
@easton: would be nice if following zorbels\'s suggestion with the a b and c\'s
zorbels: hey 5-year olds can have some pretty interesting to say :P... like \"when i grow up i am going to buy chocolate\" no forget what i just said and hit me with a stick ;)...
/me sees what he just posted and thinks he needs to sleep
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Originally posted by Peacer
@easton: sorry to say this but your last post kinda lay up to a big discussion again... correct me if i am wrong but it seems to me like it is going to be again... unless janner does what he says.
I disagree.
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OK whatever. It was my intention to get this difference between Janner and the SCoY settled without interference from outside, from people who appearantly are not involved.
It was _not_ my intention to make anybody *points at Janner* agree with somebody else *points at Easton*.
It\'s really sad that you (all) are appearantly unable to solve this thing in a productive way.
I tried to mediate between both parties as it is my duty also to care for the community. I won\'t watch idle as you bang your heads against each others and disturb the whole community with your little quarrel >:-/
And Janner: This is an OOC issue. I\'d think twice to interfere if this was IC. I\'m not taking anybodies position here, I just want to get this problem solved in any way.
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Originally posted by Kerol
OK whatever. It was my intention to get this difference between Janner and the SCoY settled without interference from outside, from people who appearantly are not involved.
It was _not_ my intention to make anybody *points at Janner* agree with somebody else *points at Easton*.
It\'s really sad that you (all) are appearantly unable to solve this thing in a productive way.
I tried to mediate between both parties as it is my duty also to care for the community. I won\'t watch idle as you bang your heads against each others and disturb the whole community with your little quarrel >:-/
And Janner: This is an OOC issue. I\'d think twice to interfere if this was IC. I\'m not taking anybodies position here, I just want to get this problem solved in any way.
IN light of this post i retract my last post.
In plane my objections to SCoY are the wording in your web page, in my opinion is misleading and would suggest you re think them. that is all if you do or don\'t is up to you good luck.
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Originally posted by r.guppy
I was completely stunned to get a /tell from a GM [who I have a great deal of respect for] trying to sort out our differences. This is not on..GMs have enough to do.. without sorting out our differences..
I am sorry for the GM to have been put in such a position.
I don\'t see why you are so desperate to get my support; after that stunt, NO.
This color is to show how low I feel you have sunk to get your way, and I won\'t bother posting in this thread again.
Nobody is desperate to get your support. We just want you to come up withsome REAL, CONSTRUCTIVE criticism if you are able to, or if not, to stop analising every word on the scoy website and interpret all the sentences there so that you can get something to trow at us.
/me points to the post above and quotes \"I won\'t bother posting in this thread again.\" Hehe, caught you.
@Anfa If you really think that a council is something elected by the people of a town, learn some english ;) (i\'m not a native english speaker but i know that the aforementioned isn\'t the definition of the word \"council\" )
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Originally posted by Eolius
@Anfa If you really think that a council is something elected by the people of a town, learn some english ;) (i\'m not a native english speaker but i know that the aforementioned isn\'t the definition of the word \"council\" )
Okay I\'m confused...
When did I ask for the definition of a council recently?
Or offered a definition of a council recently?
But since you mentioned it here\'s one definition..
Main Entry: coun?cil
Pronunciation: \'kaun-s&l
Function: noun
: a governmental body: as a : a group elected as a legislative body b : an administrative body c : an executive body whose members are equal in power and authority ?compare
and another...
Main Entry: 1coun?cil
Pronunciation: \'kaun(t)-s&l
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English counceil, from Old French concile, from Latin concilium, from com- + calare to call -- more at LOW
1 : an assembly or meeting for consultation, advice, or discussion
2 : a group elected or appointed as an advisory or legislative body
3 a : a usually administrative body b : an executive body whose members are equal in power and authority c : a governing body of delegates from local units of a federation
4 : deliberation in a council
5 a : a federation of or a central body uniting a group of organizations b : a local chapter of an organization
Hope that helps
Cheers
Anfa
edit note: I personally have thought my english has been quite good throughout this thread..and that I have learnt enough to be able to get my point across..but thanks for the advice!
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Originaly posted by Eolius
Originally posted by r.guppy
Also the Council is a word that implies that you are elected from the people of a town, and before you go into it also means this or that, i am pointing out most will see it the same as me.
Funny that nobody see it the same as you. I see no posts sustaining your point of view. \"Council\" doesn\'t imply that \"we are elected from the people of a town\", the word \"council\" actually means \"-A formally constituted advisory, deliberative, or administrative body. (Origin: from Latin \"concilium\" = convocation, assembly)\". Unless those that wrote the Oxford English dictionary know less than you... Oh, btw, the colours of your post are nice though...
At this oppinion you replyed:
Originaly posted by Anfa
Originally posted by Eolius
Funny that nobody see it the same as you. I see no posts sustaining your point of view.
Sorry, I have been letting my views be known in game...didn\'t realize you wanted me to post them here.. If you want me to post my objections to SCoY in this thread let me know... Anfa waves at Janner
If you re-read the whole thing you\'ll see that the definition of the word \"council\" was discused there and what i ment was that Janner got that definition confused.
The fact that you agree with Janner and suport his \"objections to SCoY \" wasn\'t the point there.
Edit: As a conclusion, unrelated to my words above, I wonder why, everytime somebody tryes to build something, there will be some narowminded person, or a group of people that tryes to destroy things. You don\'t like SCoY? It is perfectly fine, don\'t join. SCoY, unlike what some people want to think, will never interfere with you. If at some point we\'ll cross paths, there will be no action taken for you or against you, just dialogue. SCoY isn\'t ruling anybody and SCoY isn\'t trying to destroy guilds or individuals (like some people using alot of exclamation marks want to think). SCoY is just there to try and mediate conflicts. It has been stated before in this thread that those posting thoughts against SCoY are doing \"constructive criticism\"... Well, the form of constructive criticism is \"1)I don\'t like this\", \"2) I would have done this if I was you\", \"3) This is my ideea to fix things\". So far i\'ve only seen threats and stuff like \"I don\'t like this\". But not a single ideea to improve this organisation. So, please, be constructive because that is the difficult part.
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Here I am going to give it one last try. I haven\'t seen yet in the last five or so posts what this thread is supposed to be about. I just see nit picking again. :/
Critisim........
disapproval expressed by pointing out faults or shortcomings; \"the senator received severe criticism from his opponent\"
a serious examination and judgment of something; \"constructive criticism is always appreciated\"
and comments.........
remark: a statement that expresses a personal opinion or belief; \"from time to time she contributed a personal comment on his account\"
make or write a comment on; \"he commented the paper of his colleague\"
explain or interpret something
Problem Solving..........
find the solution to (a problem or question) or understand the meaning of; \"did you solve the problem?\"; \"Work out your problems with the boss\"; \"this unpleasant situation isn\'t going to work itself out\"; \"did you get it?\"; \"Did you get my meaning?\"; \"He could not work the math problem\"
resolve: find the solution; \"solve an equation\"; \"solve for x\"
clear: settle, as of a debt; \"clear a debt\"; \"solve an old debt\"
After all this has taken place, there should be this
Peace............
- the state prevailing during the absence of war
- harmonious relations; freedom from disputes; \"the roommates lived in peace together\"
- the absence of mental stress or anxiety
Even if you don\'t come to an agreement, you can still agree to disagree.
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@Eolius: so u r rude and unapologetic. u attack anfa\'s english, u attack her, when u mean to attack r.guppy.
(i wasnt going to say another word about this folly, but u over stepped the line. and @moderators: y do u allow Anfa to b attacked, u dont say a word. yet (this may b wrong but) in another thread karyuu slapped anfa for something less than this, a what she called a \"snide comment\" )
anyway, this thread should prolly b closed because ppl cant b civil, when anfa has been.
thats it for me unless u attack another of MY friends/guild members w/ out an appology.
this is really tiresome, this GoG will fall or thrive, as the \"Lords and Ladies\" actions r seen and felt by all.
delete me ban me do what u will, but plz do the same across the board, not just to selective ppl.
(I really like this game, i really like many i have met here.)
*that winky face shouldnt b there*
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There have been no \"attacks\" on Anfa. In the thread you mentioned where I commented on her making a comment, she was simply adding fuel to an unnecessary fire, and I believe this was very clear.
Do I really need to close this? Are some people so immature that they can\'t understand that anything below constructive criticisms and helpful opinions is a bad idea?
It\'s great that you have such a close relationship to your guildmates, Sreamah, but please don\'t jump the gun to \"defend\" someone from a single comment and further mess this thread up.
I\'m giving this thread one more chance. If there are any unconstructive posts after this, the thread is gone. Gone.
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Sorry, i didn\'t ment any attack on Anfa as Sreamah seems to think. My point was that she reacted totaly off topic.
Oh, and btw, try t0 sp33k n0rm41 eng11sh, Sreamah, using \"u\" instead of \"you\" and the \"y\" instead of \"why\" isn\'t going to make your point clearer or your post worth reading. Please do not consider this an attack too, just a sugestion.
Thank you Karyuu for setting things straight in this thread because it was going waaay off topic.
(This post is also of topic and i don\'t mind if it gets deleted but i had to set things clear and apologise if i offended anyone.)
Edit:
/me points to the post below
True, i exagerated a bit when I said I didn\'t saw ANY constructive criticism. Thank you Zorbels, thank you Pacer, and thanks to everybody who offered us some feedback, that was and is always welcome :)
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Originally posted by Eolius
Edit: As a conclusion, unrelated to my words above, I wonder why, everytime somebody tryes to build something, there will be some narowminded person, or a group of people that tryes to destroy things. You don\'t like SCoY? It is perfectly fine, don\'t join. SCoY, unlike what some people want to think, will never interfere with you. If at some point we\'ll cross paths, there will be no action taken for you or against you, just dialogue. SCoY isn\'t ruling anybody and SCoY isn\'t trying to destroy guilds or individuals (like some people using alot of exclamation marks want to think). SCoY is just there to try and mediate conflicts. It has been stated before in this thread that those posting thoughts against SCoY are doing \"constructive criticism\"... Well, the form of constructive criticism is \"1)I don\'t like this\", \"2) I would have done this if I was you\", \"3) This is my ideea to fix things\". So far i\'ve only seen threats and stuff like \"I don\'t like this\". But not a single ideea to improve this organisation. So, please, be constructive because that is the difficult part.
not true... both zorbels and me(agreed with her) came up with suggestions and ideas how to improove it... :)...
originally posted by Peacer
@zorbels: agrees... i have misunderstood the SCoY\'s mission too... and what they are here for...
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By Eolius
Funny that nobody see it the same as you. I see no posts sustaining your point of view. \"Council\" doesn\'t imply that \"we are elected from the people of a town\", the word \"council\" actually means \"-A formally constituted advisory, deliberative, or administrative body. (Origin: from Latin \"concilium\" = convocation, assembly)\". Unless those that wrote the Oxford English dictionary know less than you... Oh, btw, the colours of your post are nice though...
Originally posted by Nalain Tarek
Firstly you would have power over only those of your guild you dont have to change the name but you might want to change the meaning The sworn Council of Yliakum to The Sworn Calvary of yliakum but noone will follow you exept your guild
Basically what your doing is like having a beggar crawl onto the street and yell I\'m rich!
Originally posted by Gris
I have read through the thread and have only one comment. I don\'t really have a problem with ScOY\'s goals or methods. I have a problem with the name. I am a citizen of Yliakm and you are not my council. You may say you are not governmental, but the names implies that you are. Maybe you could be the sworn council of guilds or something like that. This is just an opinion from a simple citizen and nothing more.
Gris
I was Happy to let it go Eolius but i suggest you read a bit better, and before quoting English dont forget i am English. In England you live under a Council wherever you live Parish Town City or Capital all run by COUNCIL, elected by people, so to me and most English that is what a council means
FOOT NOTE I have never been a good friend to Easton. The only point of note to do with HIM was defending his, and his real friend Gholmyrr\'s, right to roleplay how they want, against a group of Twin blades of Arete led by Karsier.
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Karyuu I am also requesting this thread gets closed. :/ Apparently the attacks are going to continue and there is obviously no one interested in sloving the problems. Just making them. *sighs*
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/me puts his mod hat on
Originally posted by r.guppy
FOOT NOTE I have never been a good friend to Easton. The only point of note to do with HIM was defending his, and his real friend Gholmyrr\'s, right to roleplay how they want, against a group of Twin blades of Arete led by Karsier.
Belongs in PM\'s or In Game.
I urge everyone to not respond to personal atacks or anything that is not OOC AND ON TOPIC.
Id like to give it one more chance, and i ask any mods to delete any post from now on that is deemed not worth responding to.
Easton Ghent