PlaneShift
Fan Area => The Hydlaa Plaza => Topic started by: Efflixi Aduro on March 23, 2006, 04:37:31 am
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848&pr=goog-sl
its long but watch like 10 mins and youll want to see the whole thing
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Oh my god... That is the most amazing 9/11 video i have ever seen.
Thanks for sharing this with me, just... wow.
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It\'s disturbing. The scary thing is, stuff like this happens all the time.
http://www.doublestandards.org/enemies.htm
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Nothing suprising or life changing there really. Not concrete evidence for a US Gov set-up I think. There\'s lots of evidence pointing against it, which was left out of that video. Atm, I would say that I\'m 50/50 on whether it was a gov plan. And if it turns out that it was, I guess I\'d just shrug and carry on living. Not much anybody can do about it now that it\'s happened, other than various govenment people going to a criminal court. But I don\'t think that we\'d ever find out if it was the gov who did it anyway. Those people aren\'t stupid and wouldn\'t leave evidence lying around which could be used against them.
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Originally posted by Xordan
Nothing suprising or life changing there really. Not concrete evidence for a US Gov set-up I think. There\'s lots of evidence pointing against it, which was left out of that video. Atm, I would say that I\'m 50/50 on whether it was a gov plan. And if it turns out that it was, I guess I\'d just shrug and carry on living. Not much anybody can do about it now that it\'s happened, other than various govenment people going to a criminal court. But I don\'t think that we\'d ever find out if it was the gov who did it anyway. Those people aren\'t stupid and wouldn\'t leave evidence lying around which could be used against them.
I have a hard time thinking that the American government would attack its own people in such a way. It\'s also of note that when Bush was elected, his speaches aimed at attacking Iraq. Talk about Iraq disapeared after the attack on the World Trade Center, and instead they went after the Taliban. That suggests to me that the Bush administration did not expect the attack.
I think that if they expected the attack, Bush wouldn\'t have stayed in that classroom for as long as he did. He would have been ready to put on a good show. He would have tried to look like he was doing something. No, instead, his action was natural. Unscripted. Completely incompetent, just like Bush is.
So no. I don\'t think Bush knew. I doubt that Bush\'s administration knew. However, that doesn\'t mean that other figures in the American government didn\'t orchestrate it.
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When i first saw this thread i was all like \"what a wierdo title\" and didn\'t read it.
Then i just checked it to see what random rubbish zanzibar put down and then noticed what the video was :P a friend had me watch it a month or so back.... kinda interesting but nothing too amazing
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My posts aren\'t rubish, they\'re just the truth with a blunt delivery.
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but there is never too much need for them...
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Originally posted by Drey
but there is never too much need for them...
Sure there is. I get off on them.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
Originally posted by Drey
but there is never too much need for them...
Sure there is. I get off on them.
And they give me an interesting read from time to time.
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Also, I don\'t see how \"need\" is really an issue when it comes to an internet forum about a computer game.
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Originally posted by dragonfire999
Oh my god... That is the most amazing 9/11 video i have ever seen.
Thanks for sharing this with me, just... wow.
Haha at least somone appreciated it. :)
I\'m convinced this was the doing of our government but nothing will ever happend about it.
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The \"government\" was definately in on it. It was an inside job. However, it\'s another question whether or not Bush had direct personal knowledge of what was going on. I do not think that Bush knew, and I fear that Bush will be used as a scapegoat.
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ermmm why would the government (which is made up of lots of people) not just one persons idea want to do that ?
sorry if the answers are in there, i dont want to watch it again.
why do buildings falling down always turn into such controversial and weird reasons.
Sounds like one of those \'roswell things\' where people see planes taking off from military bases and think they are ufo\'s and can somehow support it with some statement from some politician.
The video brings up some good points, but id say its a bit overated and im kinda sceptical when it comes to things of this nature.
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Originally posted by davo
ermmm why would the government (which is made up of lots of people) not just one persons idea want to do that ?
sorry if the answers are in there, i dont want to watch it again.
why do buildings falling down always turn into such controversial and weird reasons.
Sounds like one of those \'roswell things\' where people see planes taking off from military bases and think they are ufo\'s and can somehow support it with some statement from some politician.
The video brings up some good points, but id say its a bit overated and im kinda sceptical when it comes to things of this nature.
There are major differences between a building collapsing and a building being demolished by controlled explosions.
When a building is demolished, it essentially implodes in on itself instead of tipping over. You destroy the support structures so it caves in.
Testimony and science give a convincing argument that the buildings were demolished by explosives inside of the building. Testimony and evidence seem to suggest that government officials helped the explosives enter the building.
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i\'m going to call supporting links on that one, zanzibar.
becuase of one rather simple question. why should the towers have fallen over?
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Originally posted by zanzibar
Originally posted by davo
ermmm why would the government (which is made up of lots of people) not just one persons idea want to do that ?
sorry if the answers are in there, i dont want to watch it again.
why do buildings falling down always turn into such controversial and weird reasons.
Sounds like one of those \'roswell things\' where people see planes taking off from military bases and think they are ufo\'s and can somehow support it with some statement from some politician.
The video brings up some good points, but id say its a bit overated and im kinda sceptical when it comes to things of this nature.
There are major differences between a building collapsing and a building being demolished by controlled explosions.
When a building is demolished, it essentially implodes in on itself instead of tipping over. You destroy the support structures so it caves in.
Testimony and science give a convincing argument that the buildings were demolished by explosives inside of the building. Testimony and evidence seem to suggest that government officials helped the explosives enter the building.
ok thats all well and good.
WHY would the government help.
Wouldent terrorists put explosives in the buildings anyway.
looks like it just colapsed because of a big hole in the centre.
the top fell down floor onto floor.
sure there may be suspicouse things or weird colapsing going on doesent mean the government wanted to blow up its own important building.
the governent are humans with lives too, not just hatefull demolition experts.
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Originally posted by davo
ok thats all well and good.
WHY would the government help.
Why would the U.S. government start genocide in Cambodia, or ignore genocide in Sudan, or go to war with Vietnam, or bomb hospitals in Iraq, or give biochemical weapons to Sudam Hussein, or assassinate Kennedy, or mess with elections to get Nixon and Bush elected, or glorify Reagan as a good president, or encourage private healthcare, or give tax cuts to major corporations, or make up excuses to go to war with Cuba and Spain, or set up the Taliban and ignore them for so long. Why would the U.S. government do any of these things?
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I am not an American, but I certainly do not believe the US government orchestrated 9/11 for their own benefit. The GOP is not so evil as to kill thousands of their own. I do however believe that immediate action was not taken when the first plane hit... they did tend to almost let it happen. But we all know of the plan for \"New American Century\" of which the GOP are a part of. Controlling Iraq/Afghanistan is an extremely beneficial (and required) thing in the grand schemes of the PNAC. The GOP got VERY lucky and used 9/11 to eventually get control of Iraq. Iran may be next.
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Originally posted by ylikone
The GOP is not so evil as to kill thousands of their own.
I dissagree with this point of view. And well, alot of other views in this thread too :P
I think the government has done millions of dastardly things in the past 230 something years of existance. However, besides what you read out of the text book, you haven\'t heard about them. Seriously, the government spends 24 hours a day, 365 days a year with a $6 1/2 trillion budget. If they wanted to get away with it, do you really think you\'d read about it, or see it on the news?
These people have more time on their hands than some vigilante internet combing nerd. These same people who post these kinds of videos proclaim \"The governements has set us up a hooge conspiracy!1\" Then twenty seconds later they explain that the government despite all it\'s time and effor has somehow leaked it\'s most private information, like a phone call from Condie Rice (No, it wasn\'t Rumsfeld or Bush, you gotta blame it on the black woman. :rolleyes: ). Give the government a little more credit for pete\'s sake. If they really wanted to keep it from you, I doubt you\'d EVER. EVER. EVER. Ever hear about it. Ever. :O
*EDIT* Added typos for comedic effect.
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I live in American and don\'t belive that it is the goverments falt. Frist of all it was a supraes to everyone. No one expected the world tradesenter to fall.
We could have been more prepared, for one. It would be more spected that we new about it before hand, if we had stoped the planes, would it not.
Unless you can tell the futher. You would not have know this would happen.
As was said early bliudings usely fall down on top of them selfs. There has never been a bluding as big as the world tradecenter that had fallen.
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Originally posted by Choren
I live in American and don\'t belive that it is the goverments falt. Frist of all it was a supraes to everyone. No one expected the world tradesenter to fall.
We could have been more prepared, for one. It would be more spected that we new about it before hand, if we had stoped the planes, would it not.
Unless you can tell the futher. You would not have know this would happen.
As was said early bliudings usely fall down on top of them selfs. There has never been a bluding as big as the world tradecenter that had fallen.
Did you watch the video?
Maybe you should watch the video before making your next post.
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mmm i can see why some aussies call americans seppos.
How would the government create money, get more power and not create more work forthemselves by blowing up 2 of the most important buildings....
i still have no reasons why.
WHY do these conspiracies involve an american and a stupid videio with dodgey evidence. The evidence here is just the same to support anything like murders and car crashes and house fires saying it was the government.
stupid evidence like the 1 person saying lots of warnings and then a secound guy saying no warnings...that doesent really mean Sh** just 2 people with different opinions.
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The president will never be the scapegoat for black ops as long as he cooperates--and they always do.
True highrise buildings are designed with built in self destruct explosives AS REQUIRED BY CODE in case the building ever collapses--it will implode to it\'s foundations rather than destroy all the surrounding communities (for 3 to 10 miles with blowout) very devastating with the dominoe effect of more buildings falling. The unplanned part of the implosion is that the system was damaged enough by the explosion on one floor, that it did not detect that the floors above the impact were splayed, and therefore did not activate until a lower floor collapsed from structural meltdown in the heat.
The reason the U.S. and not only the U.S. but also all the western european countries, all the global corporations (China included) would desire Afghanistan and Iraq out of the way is because of the Caspian sea oil pipeline to the Persian Gulf--these two countries opposed it. The future of all of the afforementioed organizations and then some are dependent on the approval and success of this pipeline (unless some very powerful people would approve of polluting the Mediteranean with oil tankers as acceptable = the alternative).
Russia wanted to take over Afghanistan because it was one of the major regions for sourcing money for government black ops in the western world through drug traficking (which the U.S. was number one--largest drug cartel in the world).
Osama bin Laden was hired long ago as an operative by the us government to prevent USSR from overtaking the drug market from the us black ops. All of his \"militia\" were trained and funded by US money up untill the Taliban gained power and shut down all the drug trade in Afghanistan.
The strangest part is that in the 6 months before 9/11 is the enormous amount of money that was channeled from us government accounts to the Al Qaida. Moreover, when this came out on the news, the investigations findings were hushed up accross the board--even if it was an enemy government that paid them (called a risk to national security).
Stranger yet, is how national security has become an excuse to prevent nationwide news coverage. Such as peace protests--such coverage is now considered to be a risk to national security (I guess they don\'t want it to become popular). Also, these new sections of national security law--all reenacted and moreso after 9/11--are used to prevent immediate coverage of many public events and protests (like against WTO, or even anti-Bush). All news coverage is limited to local only--until it is found to not \"disturb the national security\"--such as with public shock, outrage, or even uprising (yeah, like that is really going to happen in an apathetic country like the US is now). Especially peace protests are now limited to local news then slowly spread accross the nation.
***By the way, did anyone in non-local area hear about the 20,000 people march in Pheonix Arizona this past weekend?***
WHY WOULD THE US GOVERNMENT, THE UN, BRITAIN, HUGE GLOBAL CORPORATIONS, ET AL WANT 9/11 TO HAPPEN? (It is not a whole government or politically public action that they have taken, but people in it conducting a push for power.)
First, they never expected so many to be killed in the event--and they never thought rescuers would enter the building.
2--for a mere 3/4 of a billion they hired a scape goat to take the blame and become a world leader and hero of his people.
3--Now they can claim a legitimate way to open the Caspian sea pipline
4--The corporations involved have made over 100 billion dollars since the event through exercises taken in the name of it.
5--The united fascist movement in the United States has regained all of it\'s original authority and then some, making leaps and bounds in the control of American government, people, and the world.
6--Now, every government installled will be a united fascist republic, complete with backing from ________. (Welcome to \"the post war world\")
7--The black ops divisions of the US now have full authority to overthrow and replace all operations which were established during the cold war. These include fascist governments, drug cartels, and even some global corporations who believed they had become big enough to not support the weakening US fascisti regime--which is now the most powerful one in the world, and secret.
The question is--is this really all bad? After all, EVERYTHING the developed world has was acquired through war and oppression (and they still oppress any and all of their own people who oppose them--even killing them if they happen upon enough power to influence a nit). If they had not done these things in the past all the people would have suffered and died quite horribly--that is why they did it--is this why they do it now?
Horrors: the intelligence that knew of the plan, the target, and the perpetrators and knew they were boarding planes in the country. The huge money that was paid from US, British, and other western government accounts to Al Qaida and the Taliban in the 6 to 9 months prior to 9/11--and the closing of the investigational findings which first started discovering these payments (even the one of the FBI hiring Palestinians to attack the US for $25000--isnt the fbi an internal law enforcement and intelligence agency? I never knew the F could stand for \"foreign\"? But nobody really cares--after all, we have to make a living, support our families, etc..)
Note to government: Well, I may have said too much already, but since I haven\'t given sources and I haven\'t revealed anything I didn\'t already see on the news somewhere--THERE IS NO REASON TO INVESTIGATE ME, so leave me alone, and don\'t waste your time. I haven\'t encouraged any riots, burning the bushes, or lynching Cheney for his part in it and the attempted murder of his attorney. [There\'s a joke for you--a man who was raised with guns all around his crib, was taught safe handling of them all his life--accidently shoots his lawyer in the heart. Ask any NRA member about the chances of that happening.
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Originally posted by davo
mmm i can see why some aussies call americans seppos.
How would the government create money, get more power and not create more work forthemselves by blowing up 2 of the most important buildings....
i still have no reasons why.
Halliburton.
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I\'ve watched the movie and read the post. And i\'m speachless. I simply don\'t know what to think*OoOoh, Headache!*
...
(No comments.)
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Originally posted by Gripen
True highrise buildings are designed with built in self destruct explosives AS REQUIRED BY CODE in case the building ever collapses--it will implode to it\'s foundations rather than destroy all the surrounding communities (for 3 to 10 miles with blowout) very devastating with the dominoe effect of more buildings falling.
care to back that one up?
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Originally posted by steuben
Originally posted by Gripen
True highrise buildings are designed with built in self destruct explosives AS REQUIRED BY CODE in case the building ever collapses--it will implode to it\'s foundations rather than destroy all the surrounding communities (for 3 to 10 miles with blowout) very devastating with the dominoe effect of more buildings falling.
care to back that one up?
What he meant was \"All true high rise building are required to have frame supports that are compatible with common explosives at joint frameworks so that when the building is ready to be taken down it can be done with relative ease.\" This is for demolition, not conpiracy. :P
I\'d love to see some real evidence for some of the extravagant claims made in this thread. Some of them make me truly chuckle, that is untill I realise how serious you are. Serious people truly scare me, expecially with such a radical viewpoint. Remember, radicalism on any side of the fence leads to destruction. So be sure you\'re making the right decision before you start acting or even killing for a cause like some of the anti-american sentiments you may read here. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Gripen
***By the way, did anyone in non-local area hear about the 20,000 people march in Pheonix Arizona this past week?***
So, did anyone hear of this protest outside Arizona or the Southwestern US? Especially if you are in the US.
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Originally posted by Kixie
Originally posted by steuben
Originally posted by Gripen
True highrise buildings are designed with built in self destruct explosives AS REQUIRED BY CODE in case the building ever collapses--it will implode to it\'s foundations rather than destroy all the surrounding communities (for 3 to 10 miles with blowout) very devastating with the dominoe effect of more buildings falling.
care to back that one up?
What he meant was \"All true high rise building are required to have frame supports that are compatible with common explosives at joint frameworks so that when the building is ready to be taken down it can be done with relative ease.\" This is for demolition, not conpiracy. :P
I\'d love to see some real evidence for some of the extravagant claims made in this thread. Some of them make me truly chuckle, that is untill I realise how serious you are. Serious people truly scare me, expecially with such a radical viewpoint. Remember, radicalism on any side of the fence leads to destruction. So be sure you\'re making the right decision before you start acting or even killing for a cause like some of the anti-american sentiments you may read here. :rolleyes:
I guess believing Cheney would attempt to murder his lawyer in front of the secret service, and the secret service backing him up as innocent is a great deal more believable than architects designing in a safety measure to cause a true high-rise to collapse when structural failure occured--rather than fall over because they never collapse evenly unless they are demolished properly.
The freaky part in the video regarding the system, is that the gold was evacuated out the evacuation tunnels before it happened--and that the 7 story building was also demolished (perhaps all the buildings of the WTC were on the same circuit).
Oh, and the bit about the flights (7 & 11) were never scheduled to fly that day, and the planes with the FCC number for those two flights are still in use--even though all records show the planes for 7 & 11 were demolished. EERIE. (But totally believable, given the extent of the Bush family involvement.)
I do have a problem with the video though--wasn\'t it the new 767s that were used? The video talks about 707 757, but I thought they were 767s. Their size is more to the 767.
***[How many people am I reaching here? 5? I really need a better network :( (but then they\'d kill me).]
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Originally posted by Kixie
I\'d love to see some real evidence for some of the extravagant claims made in this thread. Some of them make me truly chuckle, that is untill I realise how serious you are. Serious people truly scare me, expecially with such a radical viewpoint. Remember, radicalism on any side of the fence leads to destruction. So be sure you\'re making the right decision before you start acting or even killing for a cause like some of the anti-american sentiments you may read here. :rolleyes:
There\'s been plenty of real evidence put on the table. To make blanket statements like you have is to be nothing more than a troll looking for a reaction from others.
And no, I\'m not a radical. The radicals are the ones who blew up the towers.
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Originally posted by Gripen
...I guess believing Cheney would attempt to murder his lawyer in front of the secret service, and the secret service backing him up as innocent...
Wait, what!? XD
Originally posted by Gripen The freaky part in the video regarding the system, is that the gold was evacuated out the evacuation tunnels before it happened--and that the 7 story building was also demolished (perhaps all the buildings of the WTC were on the same circuit
Wait, if all the gold was evacuated, then why did they start selling commemorative coins from the WTC vault a year after the towers fell? They specifically said that wreckage was so difficult to clean, that it took months to get the coins out. But, I\'m assuming they lied to me then?
Originally posted by zanzibar There\'s been plenty of real evidence put on the table. To make blanket statements like you have is to be nothing more than a troll looking for a reaction from others.
No, there hasn\'t been a single thread of evidence. Not a single link, verifyable quote or even photograph for any of your outrageous claims. I\'m not trolling around, trying to get any opinion out of anyone. I\'m trying to keep this damn thread balanced, instead of it resulting in a mass anti-U.S hate thread.
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Originally posted by Kixie
Originally posted by Gripen
...I guess believing Cheney would attempt to murder his lawyer in front of the secret service, and the secret service backing him up as innocent...
Wait, what!? XD
Originally posted by Gripen The freaky part in the video regarding the system, is that the gold was evacuated out the evacuation tunnels before it happened--and that the 7 story building was also demolished (perhaps all the buildings of the WTC were on the same circuit
Wait, if all the gold was evacuated, then why did they start selling commemorative coins from the WTC vault a year after the towers fell? They specifically said that wreckage was so difficult to clean, that it took months to get the coins out. But, I\'m assuming they lied to me then?
Originally posted by zanzibar There\'s been plenty of real evidence put on the table. To make blanket statements like you have is to be nothing more than a troll looking for a reaction from others.
No, there hasn\'t been a single thread of evidence. Not a single link, verifyable quote or even photograph for any of your outrageous claims. I\'m not trolling around, trying to get any opinion out of anyone. I\'m trying to keep this damn thread balanced, instead of it resulting in a mass anti-U.S hate thread.
The first quote is from my response to Stueben\'s inability to believe in the intelligence of architects, but not even notice what I said about Cheney.
The second quote comes from my reaction to the video--regarding the gold bars that were stored in the WTC, how only one fourth was recovered (from an abandoned 10 ton truck in the evacuation tunnel).
Kixie--you really should view the video. The evidence Zanzi refers to is in the video--all from news coverage. The link is in the very starting post of this thread (which is not a US hate thread, it is a wake up US thread). There are also several other links found there to point out the cover ups regarding 9/11.
[Judging from the massive download speed of the source site--I\'d say it is in DC or someplace similar (as that is the only place I can accomplish 300kbs download from).
***So there is still no one here who has heard on the news about the 20,000 person march in Phoenix this past week? I guess the \"rumors\" are true--for national security reasons all big news is kept local until approved.*** (I was wondering why I hadn\'t heard of any peace protests except the ones where I lived, until I was told why, even the one in SF I didn\'t get news on until it was 2weeks old.)
******EDIT EDIT: I just saw that the Washington Times \"Americas Newspaper\" just finally reported on it YESTERDAY (shortly after I posted, hmm) they\'re only a couple of weeks behind the news from when the issue started. I wonder if it went onto national TV yet?
***ooo! I also just found out that there were 500,000 in LA--that isn\'t on our local news yet--since that happened first one would think it would have been included with the Phoenix coverage. [Of course this still doesn\'t explain the complete lack of coverage for large peace protests other than local.]
Here is a quote from the AP regarding recent protests:
\"When did you ever see a Mexican blow up the World Trade Center? Who do you think built the World Trade Center?\" said David Gonzalez, 22, who marched in Los Angeles with a sign that read, \"I\'m in my homeland.\'\"
Ahh! Living in America (at least parts of it has clean air).
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Gripen, providing proof is not done by quoting yourself.
You implied that 500,000 people marched in LA in protest of the war. I think you are way wrong on that number. AS PROOF here is a LINK to a reconiziable web site.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060319/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_war_protests
@ Kixie, wow! looks like your the sane one in this thread! who would have thought! :))
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Originally posted by derwoodly
Gripen, providing proof is not done by quoting yourself.
You implied that 500,000 people marched in LA in protest of the war. I think you are way wrong on that number. AS PROOF here is a LINK to a reconiziable web site.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060319/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_war_protests
@ Kixie, wow! looks like your the sane one in this thread! who would have thought! :))
Ahh, another unbelieving lying infidel. You suffer from a severe reading deficit, don\'t you?
I never said or implied that it was war protests, and I have not quoted myself--not even once.
What I did say, is that even protests are not covered by national news coverage until it is okayed that it will not cause a risk to national security. I used the protests which I mentioned as evidence of that fact--so either you are very underinformed, or my information is correct regarding the tampering with news coverage--and you should be hearing about the protests in the next couple or weeks or even months.
[What part of the country are you in?]
Kixie isn\'t any more sane than the rest of us, just a little better socially programmed, or unwilling to view the evidence (like you). Both of you should view the video from the first post.
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Originally posted by Gripen
Originally posted by Gripen
***By the way, did anyone in non-local area hear about the 20,000 people march in Pheonix Arizona this past week?***
So, did anyone hear of this protest outside Arizona or the Southwestern US? Especially if you are in the US.
Originally posted by Gripen
I have not quoted myself--not even once.
I spy with my little eye... :3
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Originally posted by Gripen
What I did say, is that even protests are not covered by national news coverage until it is okayed that it will not cause a risk to national security. I used the protests which I mentioned as evidence of that fact--so either you are very underinformed, or my information is correct regarding the tampering with news coverage--and you should be hearing about the protests in the next couple or weeks or even months.
[What part of the country are you in?]
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i dont know about you but i been hearing from all kinds of the protest agasitn that immmgration policy they are making when it happen. maybe you just dont look at the news too often
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OOOPPS, my bad. I was way wrong on that one. I have been away from the TV for a couple of days, so I missed this one.
First let me say, WOW, 500,000 is indeed a lot of people. As far as I can tell that is the largest protest croud ever anywhere. It is very impresive.
Second, Yes, Gripen you did make it seem as though half a million people protested the war.
Third, I did watch the video and read the blogs and read the forums.
[Edit: see Kixie is the most sane, you did not quote your self, hah. Here have some of what I have been smoking for two days :P ]
[Second Edit: @Gripen if you truely want to convince me of something try including links like this http://www.wanttoknow.info/9-11cover-up10pg ]
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Here is another link for a video from deutch--english sub-titles (must be able to read)
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11222.htm
It is more believable, and broader--regarding 9 11.
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Originally posted by Kixie
I\'m trying to keep this damn thread balanced, instead of it resulting in a mass anti-U.S hate thread.
Oh please. This is not anti-U.S. There\'s nothing anti U.S. about it. It\'s entirely possible to love a country but hate its government.
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No, you can love a land and hate it\'s government, the country is the land+government. The culture wouldn\'t be here without the government. I love the mountains. Anyways...
Why does everyone always believe the US is always scheming to take over the world or get free oil? Why don\'t people spend their hours of free time constructing elaborate conjectures about the \"evil\" government of Britain, or Germany, or China even, but no, it\'s always the US... Ya, ruminate on that bitchez...
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Originally posted by JellyWerker
No, you can love a land and hate it\'s government, the country is the land+government. The culture wouldn\'t be here without the government. I love the mountains. Anyways...
Why does everyone always believe the US is always scheming to take over the world or get free oil? Why don\'t people spend their hours of free time constructing elaborate conjectures about the \"evil\" government of Britain, or Germany, or China even, but no, it\'s always the US... Ya, ruminate on that bitchez...
i) \"The Government\" and \"The People\" are two different things.
ii) Germany and Britain aren\'t superpowers. The U.S. is.
iii) Plenty of people are critical of China.
iv) Plenty of people are critical of Britain, but it\'s more to do with domestic economic policies.
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lol thats what i was thinking. (jelly werkers post)
im not going to say \'dumb americans\' cause that got me my first deleted post a while back, Lmao last time it was about a pentagon consipacy. Sounds like some kinda movie.
I could make a video for instance about anything...put some random quotes and stupid evidence and blame the government.
I Think micheal more coveres this type of thing in some movies he has made on a general level.
I dont see what the government has to do with loving a country and its people, culture ect..when i think of australia i think of aussies and the country, not just john howard
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Well looks like the French have proven me wrong yet again. An estimated 1 million person protest is going on there!
I would like to point out that these very large protests are NOT against the occupation of Iraq. They are about domestic issues. And they are getting press, contrary to what Grippen is claiming.
For me it comes down to what is more believable. Gripens view that the US government is conspiring with world media to rule the world, and a bunch of kids with a cool domain name are the only ones on the planet that can stop them, OR Main stream view that USA\'s government (and all others as well) is a flawed organization that let a bunch of fanatics make fools of them.
I mean really, if the government was half as clever as Gripen claims it to be, \"Black-Ops\" would just break into Grippens house brain wash him and we would never have to read tripe like the first post. Or to state it another way, Nixen secretly spies on the democratic party and gets impeached, but Bush starts a war by KILLING 3000 of its own citizens and blames it on foreign terrorist who are all too happy to take the blame and then gets away scott free? I just don\'t think so. All of the stuff on that site can either be shown as just false, or be explained by one hand not knowing what the other hand is doing.
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Originally posted by derwoodly
Well looks like the French have proven me wrong yet again. An estimated 1 million person protest is going on there!
I would like to point out that these very large protests are NOT against the occupation of Iraq.
So why post about it?
Originally posted by derwoodly
They are about domestic issues. And they are getting press, contrary to what Grippen is claiming.
I believe Grippen was talking about the protest in the USA.
Originally posted by derwoodly
For me it comes down to what is more believable. Gripens view that the US government is conspiring with world media to rule the world,
No. Members of the US government control some agencies such as Faux (Fox) News, but the control is largely systemic and cultural.
Originally posted by derwoodly
and a bunch of kids with a cool domain name are the only ones on the planet that can stop them,
No one is making that claim. The message is always that the general public is the one with the power, and that these \"kids\" are merely trying to educate others into action.
Originally posted by derwoodly
OR Main stream view that USA\'s government (and all others as well) is a flawed organization that let a bunch of fanatics make fools of them.
There are fanatics within the USA\'s government. Bush makes a fool of himself without anyone else\'s help. It is a flawed organization, and it is also corrupt.
Originally posted by derwoodly
I mean really, if the government was half as clever as Gripen claims it to be, \"Black-Ops\" would just break into Grippens house brain wash him and we would never have to read tripe like the first post.
What a stupid thing to say.
Originally posted by derwoodly
Or to state it another way, Nixen secretly spies on the democratic party and gets impeached, but Bush starts a war by KILLING 3000 of its own citizens and blames it on foreign terrorist who are all too happy to take the blame and then gets away scott free?
According to the video, those foregin terrorists were not at all happy that they were being blamed.
Originally posted by derwoodly
I just don\'t think so. All of the stuff on that site can either be shown as just false, or be explained by one hand not knowing what the other hand is doing.
Stop building strawmen.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
Oh please. This is not anti-U.S. There\'s nothing anti U.S. about it. It\'s entirely possible to love a country but hate its government.
*Verrliit marvels with wonderment, at the unlikely event...*
My goodness, Shal.
We have found common ground, and common sense, at last.
To those sheeple, who are still complacently trusting of those who hold power, I say the following:
1. Use Occam\'s razor - \"The simplest explanation that fits all the facts, is the most likely.\"
2. People in power have no limit to the evil of which they are capable. (Google Auschwitz, Hiroshima, Aids, expired medicines sold to poor African countries, military experiments on soldiers without consent, Orgone and the Radium Dial Corporation, treatment of the control group in Syphillus research, etc, etc...)
3. GW was once asked: \"What will be your legacy, and be written about you in the history books?\"
GW replied: \"History doesn\'t matter. We\'ll all be dead.\"
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I have seen the video. I think they raise some interesting points that should be looked into more closely... BUT...
Look at the level of conspiracy it would take to pull this off. Honestly. Think it through. Look at the organization it would take, the prior planning, and the manpower.
No one talked? Everyone just went along with it?
Do you really believe there are these super secret agencies that are so good at contorting world events that they rarely get caught? Wouldn\'t they have left fewer \"clues\" if they were so good?
People think, Bush can barely complete a proper sentence. Do you really believe he is \"Dr. Evil?\" Oh is it Cheney? Wait... I know, there are bigger, smarter, puppet masters right?
Do you guys realize who works for the government? That\'s right, people just like you and me. People that do the job to get paid so they can afford a house and drink a beer with the game.
Don\'t you think laziness on their part, governmental red tape, and an arrogant \"it can never happen to us\" attitude could have let this happen?
Not to mention an \"enemy\" that really does want to kill American\'s and their \"commitment\" to see it through?
Is it really so far fetched?
Now, don\'t get me wrong. I don\'t for one minute believe I\'m being told the whole truth by these people. I do believe there is a lot of \"cover your ass\" going on. I\'m sure there is a lot more to the story. But you really have to think it through before just buying anything that \"proves\" these major conspiracy theories.
It\'s just like the \"computer is developed from alien technology\" people. I work in this industry and hold many patents to developing microprocessor technology. I suppose I\'ve had access to \"alien technology\" that I\'ve copied to create microprocessors? I guess I\'m not clever enough to come up with an invention on my own right?
Think about the information presented, who is presenting it, and their motives before drawing conclusions. Also check both sides of the story. Use some common sense.
Araye
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Originally posted by Araye
I have seen the video. I think they raise some interesting points that should be looked into more closely... BUT...
Look at the level of conspiracy it would take to pull this off. Honestly. Think it through. Look at the organization it would take, the prior planning, and the manpower.
No one talked? Everyone just went along with it?
Do you really believe there are these super secret agencies that are so good at contorting world events that they rarely get caught?
They\'re called the CIA.
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Nice chop job you did on my post Zanzibar. When you pick apart each sentance you can find all sorts of problems with my post. The same is true for just about anything. My oppinion is really no different than Araye\'s opinion. I also notice your comment about the CIA does not address his main point about what is more likely to have happened.
And to Verrliit, both Araye and my self are discussing the complexity of the events that would have to have gone on in order to cover up such a conspiricy. Wich in my estimation is using Occam\'s razor. Having a hand full of fanatics fly a plane into the WTO a few years after they drove a van full of explosives into it is a much simpler explanation than the one provided on the web site at the begining of this post. Is that not the principle of Occam\'s razor?
In truth, I believe that neither Zanzibar or Efflixi really believe in the nonsense that they posted, I think they are just bored. Don\'t believe me? here is a quote from the site that Zanzibar provided at the begining of the post ...
\"What do you call someone who explodes a bomb and kills innocent people?
? A terrorist.
What do you call someone who drops a bomb from a plane and kills innocent people?
? A brave American pilot. \"
[Quote from DoubleStandard.Org ]
Yes, Zanzibar, I have built some Strawmen, I do it quite often in my arguements. If this were a term paper I would do a better job of representing my oponnets arguements, include quotes, site sources, and would also run this mess through the spell checker. However the original post is right here in the thread, everyone can see Efflixii\'s arguement and his source and your source as well, and judge for themselves as to the quallity of the my job of representing the other side. I encourage everyone to look at double standard dot org and decide for them selves. I found it to be a fantastic source of logical fallacies.
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Derwoodly, I just wouldn\'t worry about it anymore. This thread has gone down the crapper, and I\'ve just decided to let by gones be by gones. Hopefully this thread shall rest in peace, forevermore. :)
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Originally posted by derwoodly
I believe that neither Zanzibar or Efflixi really believe in the nonsense that they posted
You\'re wrong.
Originally posted by derwoodly
Yes, Zanzibar, I have built some Strawmen, I do it quite often in my arguements. If this were a term paper I would do a better job of representing my oponnets arguements, include quotes, site sources, and would also run this mess through the spell checker.
A strawman argument means that you invent or fabricate a ficticious argument and then you pretend that your oponent\'s argument is actually the one you just made up. You then attack the argument you made up, and you ignore the argument that your oponent actually said.
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What the heck? We were never friendly towards Hitler! That second link says we were, it lies! If it lies once, how can we trust its integrity on the other things?
*edit*
Derwoodly, it\'s one thing if it\'s meant to incapacitate a military, it\'s a whole other matter if it\'s to incapacitate a country. And America in both world wars waited to be attacked before entering the conflict. We were fighting for our lives and freedoms, and the lives and freedoms of others. How can our nation\'s defenders be compared to random idiots commiting suicide and mass homicide at the same time?
The difference:
American pilot: Fighting for people, against those who wish to kill/conquer/enslave them.
Terrorist: Fighting for no one, against civilians who did nothing against them.
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Originally posted by defender43
What the heck? We were never friendly towards Hitler! That second link says we were, it lies! If it lies once, how can we trust its integrity on the other things?
*edit*
Derwoodly, it\'s one thing if it\'s meant to incapacitate a military, it\'s a whole other matter if it\'s to incapacitate a country. And America in both world wars waited to be attacked before entering the conflict. We were fighting for our lives and freedoms, and the lives and freedoms of others. How can our nation\'s defenders be compared to random idiots commiting suicide and mass homicide at the same time?
The difference:
American pilot: Fighting for people, against those who wish to kill/conquer/enslave them.
Terrorist: Fighting for no one, against civilians who did nothing against them.
1. America did not fund the Nazis. The Bush family did.
2. American soldiers are usually fighting for college money, not their country.
3. Suicidal bombers are fighting for their families, for their homeland, and for their God.
4. Suicide bombers feel that the people they kill are corrupted by Satan.
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1: Again, WTF? I have done extensive research on the matter.
2: Did I hear a usually in there? Anyways, I wouldn\'t go out and get myself killed just for college money. It doesn\'t make sense, once you\'re dead, you don\'t need collage money. I would do it for America, my family, and my friends.
3: We did not attack them at the time of Sepember 11th. They attacked us without any form of provokation.
4: So? It\'s called \'freedom of religion\'. I feel that they are corrupted by Satan. But I am not just going over there with a bomb strapped to my chest!
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oh here to the creibitly of the movie
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/single.php?post=816414
his quotes were cherry picked and my favorite
ere have been some people who claim that a Global Hawk was what hit the Pentagon. Here is what John W. Brown, spokesman for Rolls Royce (Indianapolis), had to say about the part in the photo above �It is not a part from any Rolls Royce engine that I�m familiar with, and certainly not the AE 3007H made here in Indy.� (Of course it wouldn\'t be anything he\'s familiar with, it\'s a powerplant made by Honeywell.) The AE 3007 engines are used in small commuter jets such as the Cessna Citation; the AE 3007H is also used in the military�s unmanned aircraft, the Global Hawk. The Global Hawk is manufactured by Northrop Grumman�s subsidiary Ryan Aeronautical, which it acquired from Teledyne, Inc. in July 1999
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Originally posted by zanzibar
3. Suicidal bombers are fighting for their families, for their homeland, and for their God.
4. Suicide bombers feel that the people they kill are corrupted by Satan.
You seem to know a lot about what suicide bombers think. You failed to mention political power as additional motivation. Not every suicide bomber has \"high\" ideals such as religion and homeland.
And defender, what the hell do you mean we didn\'t attack them during 9/11? Attack who? The terrorists? Who are the terrorists?
I fail to see how you think we didn\'t provoke them. The reasons might not be \"right\" but we\'re not completely blameless.
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Originally posted by defender43
1: Again, WTF? I have done extensive research on the matter.
Others have done extensive research as well, and they seem to disagree with you.
Originally posted by defender43
2: Did I hear a usually in there? Anyways, I wouldn\'t go out and get myself killed just for college money. It doesn\'t make sense, once you\'re dead, you don\'t need collage money. I would do it for America, my family, and my friends.
The members of the national guard never expected to see active duty except for domestic disaster relief. They never expected to go to Iraq, and they never expected their tour of duty to be extended by months and years.
Originally posted by defender43
3: We did not attack them at the time of Sepember 11th. They attacked us without any form of provokation.
Actually, we did attack them. The American government has interfered with the politics and economies of many countries, including those in the middle east. The American government has started wars, has funded terrorist organizations, and has assassinated democratically elected leaders.
Originally posted by defender43
4: So? It\'s called \'freedom of religion\'. I feel that they are corrupted by Satan. But I am not just going over there with a bomb strapped to my chest!
You said that they\'re mudering innocent people for no reason. [They don\'t think we\'re innocent, and they don\'t think it\'s without reason.
Originally posted by Zaxim
You seem to know a lot about what suicide bombers think. You failed to mention political power as additional motivation. Not every suicide bomber has \"high\" ideals such as religion and homeland.
The people who train and send the suicide bombers may be doing so for political gain, but the suicide bombers themselves are drugged up and told they\'re going to meet 40 virgins in heaven.
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Originally posted by Frank
oh here to the creibitly of the movie
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/single.php?post=816414
See, some simple research as in the link posted by Frank shows how it is obvious that a plane crashed into the pentagon. All the conspiracy documentaties make it look so questionable... until you step back and look at all the evidence they left out, then you start seeing a completely different picture. Really, most of these things like \"plane never hit\", \"planes landed and people hidden away\", \"towers were imploded by internal bombs\", etc... are just conspiracy theories that look believable until unbias research is done... and they end up being on the same level as \"we didn\'t actually land on the moon\" and \"the earth is hollow\", etc...
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I told myself I would not post another sentence into this thread, but I cannot let Zanzibar spout this nonsense.
I have to question all those conspiracy theorists in this thread, who are posting and ask, how are you helping? If you honestly believe that the world is being controlled, and that an unjust power is in place, what are you doing by posting here? I really marvel at how you can be so calm as to state your opinions when obviously there is a state of mortal peril at hand! I know if I saw the truth in something as truly dispicable as global domination, I would not watch it take it course like a fool.
Zanzibar, your motives are truly questionable. You say that the government is a fool at times, yet at others you ramble that the head of state has taken far precautions to guarantee a staged plan of global proportions. How does that add up?
Even more offending is your condesending views of those who defend their land in the Middle East. While their paths are obviously confused, it is a path I would not doubt any of us would take if we were in the same circumstance. The fact you can judge men you have never spoken to, never even graced with your own presence is a stunning example of egotistical ignorance. These men give their lives for their family. How does that not strike you in anyway? You can surely deem that they are ignorant, or crazy or lied to, yet do you truly know them? There is an old saying, \"You should walk a mile in a man\'s shoes before you cast judgment\" but even that doesn\'t shed light on what these men are defending. At least THEY have a backbone; enough of one to stand for what they believe to be true, unlike you, a man who stands while believing at the same time there is a world wide danger. In my opinion, the men who kill themselves with bombs have more of my respect than you.
Your depection of men who travel overseas from the United States also offends me more than words can describe. Sure, their lives are just as pompous and comfortable as the ones you and I live, but their valiancy is still greater than yours; and I admit it is a bravery I am not sure I possess myself. But, unlike you my admiration still goes towards men who take it upon themselves to travel to a foreign land to fight for something they hold dear to them. This treasure they wish to posess is not something as trivial as a government check. While there are men and women who are fools enough to die for something as meaningly as currency, I can hardly believe that the majority or even a large group of idividuals in our country would give their lives for useless paper. They die for our country and what it stands for. That takes something you do not posess.
You are correct in your assumptions however. Men are tainted with lies. However, the lies and half truths I see do not come from a surreptitious individual in office. He wears not a smile of kindness; he is you.
I only wish that you would take the time to think about other people before you cast their judgment and opinion and selfish and unworthy. Ignorance towards another\'s actions is the most offendable and dangerous kind. I only hope one day you can take that knowlege, and put it into a cause more useful than that of a forum troll.
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Ylikone, to me your post is merely a set of blanket statements without factual evidence backing them up. I\'m sure that you have reason to believe what you believe, but until you give reason for me to agree with you...
Originally posted by Kixie
I have to question all those conspiracy theorists in this thread, who are posting and ask, how are you helping? If you honestly believe that the world is being controlled, and that an unjust power is in place, what are you doing by posting here?
It might be pointless to say something, but the thing being said might still be true.
Originally posted by Kixie
Zanzibar, your motives are truly questionable. You say that the government is a fool at times, yet at others you ramble that the head of state has taken far precautions to guarantee a staged plan of global proportions. How does that add up?
Gee wiz Kixie, it\'s almost as if the government is made up of multiple individuals and interests!
Originally posted by Kixie
Even more offending is your condesending views of those who defend their land in the Middle East.
Huh? When was I condescending towards people in the Middle East? Now you\'re just making crap up. Give a single quote where I was disrespectful in such a way. I found your later comments about me to be very insulting and very untrue. Is this what you\'re resorting to? You can\'t defend your position, so you make up such horrible lies about what I believe?
The best part of your post was when you called me a troll. I enjoyed that, given your history on these forums. You reappear every so often just to cause trouble and insult people. That\'s pretty much the definition of a troll, and I\'ve said so several times before now. Making up lies to label me as a troll will not erase your own history.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
Huh? When was I condescending towards people in the Middle East? Now you\'re just making crap up.
Wait, I\'m sorry what?
Originally posted by zanzibar
The people who train and send the suicide bombers may be doing so for political gain, but the suicide bombers themselves are drugged up and told they\'re going to meet 40 virgins in heaven.
True, I was a troll. But at least I\'ve grown up in the past 3 years.
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Originally posted by Kixie
Originally posted by zanzibar
Huh? When was I condescending towards people in the Middle East? Now you\'re just making crap up.
Wait, I\'m sorry what?
Originally posted by zanzibar
The people who train and send the suicide bombers may be doing so for political gain, but the suicide bombers themselves are drugged up and told they\'re going to meet 40 virgins in heaven.
True, I was a troll. But at least I\'ve grown up in the past 3 years.
There\'s nothing condescending about what I said. It\'s a religious ritual. It\'s even noble, in a way - though I disagree with their cause and I find their methods to be horrifying. Living a puritanical life with no drugs, alcohol, or sex, then you\'re asked to serve your God and homeland by giving up your life? Why not celebrate a little in the days before your death?
No, Kixie -- you do not have a point. Your accusations are groundless. What I said was not condescending. What I said was not insulting. What I said was not an attack on the people of the Middle East or Islam.
What you said on the other hand was SO over the top in terms of attempting to be hurtful that I question your mental health at the moment. If you truly believe what you said, then you are dellusional. If you do not believe what you said, then you are the worst troll I\'ve ever seen on this message board. Take your pick and act accordingly.
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Originally posted by derwoodly
Well looks like the French have proven me wrong yet again. An estimated 1 million person protest is going on there!
I would like to point out that these very large protests are NOT against the occupation of Iraq. They are about domestic issues. And they are getting press, contrary to what Grippen is claiming.
For me it comes down to what is more believable. Gripens view that the US government is conspiring with world media to rule the world, and a bunch of kids with a cool domain name are the only ones on the planet that can stop them, OR Main stream view that USA\'s government (and all others as well) is a flawed organization that let a bunch of fanatics make fools of them.
I mean really, if the government was half as clever as Gripen claims it to be, \"Black-Ops\" would just break into Grippens house brain wash him and we would never have to read tripe like the first post. Or to state it another way, Nixen secretly spies on the democratic party and gets impeached, but Bush starts a war by KILLING 3000 of its own citizens and blames it on foreign terrorist who are all too happy to take the blame and then gets away scott free? I just don\'t think so. All of the stuff on that site can either be shown as just false, or be explained by one hand not knowing what the other hand is doing.
I see you\'re still smokin that stuff.
My name is pronounced like gripin\'--I started off here only griping.
The protest in France is not a risk to our national security--the 500,000 protest in LA is considered a risk to national security because it encourages more protesting and when the government does what it is going to do anyway--then the protests turn into riots. This protest has prompted many other protests.
Strange, it still has not been reported on the local news here in Tucson Arizona, but the 20000 protest in Phoenix was--now the only proteste going on in the us that get reported here are the walkouts of grade school kids--coupled with threats varying from jail to suspension, and the schools are locking them into the compounds contrary to firecode (but that is not made an issue on the news).
The largest protest in US history, and it doesn\'t make news in a city only a few hundred miles away. Why? The NSA does not want unrest breaking out the way the rodney king trial did (if the rodney king trial happened now--the news of it would not be aloud to reach everywhere in the country for a minimum of 6 months, and probably years. The only way to get this news is to look for it specifically on the internet--this is written into the national security act. Read it yourself (it is only 580 to 720 pages depending on what font you use). [Oh yeah, I forgot, you\'ve been smoking and have difficulty concentrating ;) ]
The point is that the government didn\'t do it--merely a few of them were directly responsible for it happening.
Oh, and since the video uses the same music as Michael Moore\'s movie, but adds many elements which are verifiably incorrect, and the only place I can achieve 300+ download speeds from is Washington DC--I\'m suspicious of the video from the first post of this thread as being something deliberately made to discredit the Micheal Moore movie--Fahrenheit 911.
*edit*
Originally posted by Araye
....No one talked? Everyone just went along with it?
....Is it really so far fetched?
....Use some common sense.
Araye
Yep, that it correct, that is exactly what happened starting in the 1920\'s and culminating in the 1960s. It continued into the 70s then finally starting getting fingered, and black ops lost the power to assassinate anyone just for the \"national security\" near the end o the 70s. Then in the 80s Reagan administration (oh--that is EXACTLY THE SAME people in our current government regime) was caught dealing mass illegal arms to known enemies of the US. He was almost impeached for his support in the Iran Contra scandal. Oh yeah, arms were used to buy drugs from the contras--it has not been declassified yet where the cocaine from the contras went, only that it was moved using american military. (**Just like the \"medicinal\" drugs to Cuba.)
Oh yeah, Cuba. That has been declassified--which is what the video opens with: \"March 13 1962\" the pentagon initiates an operation which entails terrorist acts in DC, and Cuba--even on the US base in Cuba, and plans to blame Cuba for it in order to allow an all out attack of Cuba (which Kennedy agreed to, but then did not allow the attack when the time came--Nov, 1963 Kennedy is killed by a trained black ops marine).
By the way, that plan to overthrow Cuba--they used the military to do those attacks. The plan was commited all the way up to the attack = The US government commited acts of terrorism against Florida, D.C., and Cuba. You want to know the really weird part--Cheney was deeply involved in that event also.
^^^thanks Karyuu for connecting these two posts--I didn\'t know how to do that.
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Bah, Cuba has a nationalist government and a nationalist agenda. They do what they do because it\'s in the interest of their own people.... they are not the concern here.
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Im not a Conspiracy Theorist... but that video seems more crediable then any other that I have watched debunking the so called \"Truth\"... I need to look at more of the sources.. but some of that is quite odd... how did the buildings fall? and why wasnt there anything at the crash site near the pentagon of a 757? It wouldnt be the first time a president/ leader attacked his own people in order to do something for the \"greater good\". And now look at how much success we are having because of actions taken from this. wow
Why does everyone always believe the US is always scheming to take over the world or get free oil? Why don\'t people spend their hours of free time constructing elaborate conjectures about the \"evil\" government of Britain, or Germany, or China even, but no, it\'s always the US... Ya, ruminate on that peanutez...
Maybe because none of those countries are as powerful as the United states individually. And what are we doing? Oh yeah liberating those people. Seems like we made them a target. But its all for the great good.
but Bush starts a war by KILLING 3000 of its own citizens and blames it on foreign terrorist who are all too happy to take the blame and then gets away scott free? I just don\'t think so. All of the stuff on that site can either be shown as just false, or be explained by one hand not knowing what the other hand is doing.
You think the government had nothing to do with it? At the least I think they allowed it to happen. Jellywerker are you ever against your government because no matter the issue you defend them.
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Originally posted by Valbrandr
Maybe because none of those countries are as powerful as the United states individually. And what are we doing? Oh yeah liberating those people. Seems like we made them a target. But its all for the great good.
But people are critical of these governments all the time! Especially China!
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Originally posted by zanzibar
Bah, Cuba has a nationalist government and a nationalist agenda. They do what they do because it\'s in the interest of their own people.... they are not the concern here.
People don\'t believe the US government would commit acts of terrrorism against it\'s own people--the Cuban Crisis is the first substantiated and documented case, I know of, to be legally revealed to the American Public. You\'ll find at least one man who has partaked, planned, or in some cases, even implemented every illegal government act against the American people since the \'50s--his name is Dick Cheney.
In response to the Cuban Crisis in the \'60s the pentagon came up with a plan to conduct small scale attacks against targets in D.C., Florida, Guantanamo, and an American ship which would be parked outside Cuba\'s port. On March, 13, 1962, the plan was approved by the Pentagon and authorized by President Kennedy.
The problem was that they could not find enough \"friendly Cubans\" to train for the attacks, and so they used US military personell--posed as Cubans.
When the time came to retaliate against Cuba for the attacks--Kennedy balked, opting for the already initiated plans B and C to just assassinate Castro. A femme fatale working for the US had successfully become his girlfriend--but she fell in love with him and refused to kill him, saying, \"He is the best gentleman I have ever met, a wonderful man.\" Plan C of a sniper was foiled by the Cuban military.
The femme fatale was reported murdered in Phoenix, AZ in 1990.
*For current President Bush\'s part see this thread:
http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=22846&boardid=19&styleid=3&page=1#1
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Im not bored anough to sit here and read the 1200 paragraph essays you guys have wrote defending your side of the argument.
Everyone is entitled to their own oppinion, just make sure you watch the video before you argue against it ya? :)
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I posted this link in the poke @ SCoY thred--but it is meant to be here.
This is how they did it, and it is far more elaborate than even this:
http://www.legitgov.org/peaceprotests.html