PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => PvP,PK and Thieving => Topic started by: burned man on April 12, 2006, 10:16:17 am
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criminal mode, to me this means this:
- criminal mode for planeshift with robbing, thieving, killing and all time possibility to get killed yourself by one or many other players
if you want a real game, why can\'t i rob anyone?
signed by the best ps thief already, hebon mestjar ;)
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So basically, you want open PVP?
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Originally posted by zanzibar
So basically, you want open PVP?
no what i want is that it is possible to go in a criminal state where you can start doing the things i proposed but also can get killed, by example by the city guard on the main gates, maby guard patrols may be added, things like that, then it would become really dangerous to go outside if you aren\'t strong enough, but the criminals should also be able to be killed at any time by any amount or any person dropping the things they stole in the last five minute or something, work it out, it\'s a great thing to do according to what i think.
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this has been discussed ad infinitum ad nauseam here, in the PvP subforum. (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/board.php?boardid=21) I tend to avoid that board, because as far as I can see it\'s going nowhere, but maybe you should read other peoples opinions there.
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Originally posted by Rerogo
this has been discussed ad infinitum ad nauseam here, in the PvP subforum. (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/board.php?boardid=21) I tend to avoid that board, because as far as I can see it\'s going nowhere, but maybe you should read other peoples opinions there.
No it\'s not about opinions, listen i\'m a thieve and i\'m intrested in thieving, i would be dissapointed if it wasn\'t there, also planeshift claims to be real or at least in development of real well with rp i mean so... Why should you be able to fight if you want to but would i not be able to thieve if i wanted to? Also with a high enough risk to be a criminal it would be balanced as i said, that makes it exciting and that is where it\'s all about (and the loot of course).
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Yeah this reall should be in the pvp pk sub-forum...
Like Rerogo said, it\'s been discussed and endlessly spirals the drain...
Originally posted by paxx
in large part the game will not be PvP, Pk, or allow players pick pocketing or mugging other players
...unless someone comes up with some way to implement it that is unbelievably good...
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Originally posted by clint8565
Yeah this reall should be in the pvp pk sub-forum...
Like Rerogo said, it\'s been discussed and endlessly spirals the drain...
Originally posted by paxx
in large part the game will not be PvP, Pk, or allow players pick pocketing or mugging other players
...unless someone comes up with some way to implement it that is unbelievably good...
that is just [EDIT] i\'ll tell you why they don\'t want to implete it, they want to create a world that is so called really close to reality and whatever but they are afraid if they add things which are bad to do that people won\'t like it anymore. That sucks i\'ll tell you, know why cause it means this game was impleted by wussies just like most other games. If players come crying that they have been robbed just tell them to rob back, if you don\'t your just filthy hypocrits.
It had to be said
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Now, now... they said they would do it if someone came up with a good way to implement it...
And it\'s realistic in a fantasy rp sense not realistic as in a Earth sense... also there\'s already open pk to all those who want it... just set the challenge thing to always accept... and people steal stuff all the time... you just can\'t pick pockets, but you can\'t do a lot of stuff since 0.3 is pretty far from 1.0
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Those who want PvP can build a PvP game, and those who don\'t want it don\'t have to.
The PS team is the latter.
Clearly we\'ll have some sort of pickpocketing/thieving skill, but griefing will be made next to impossible.
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Originally posted by Karyuu
Those who want PvP can build a PvP game, and those who don\'t want it don\'t have to.
The PS team is the latter.
Clearly we\'ll have some sort of pickpocketing/thieving skill, but griefing will be made next to impossible.
what may griefing be?
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Griefer is the term for a player who deliberately sets out to discomfort other players, and this is done most commonly through things like thievery and PK. This is why the issue is so sensitive, and the PS team prefers to set limitations on PvP and disallow PKing entirely to prevent such situations.
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You don\'t need to kill/steal to be evil :P
I have had a few ideas of how to cater better for the more chaotic evil players, but nothing like this will happen too soon. Our world isn\'t big enough.
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Originally posted by Karyuu
Griefer is the term for a player who deliberately sets out to discomfort other players, and this is done most commonly through things like thievery and PK. This is why the issue is so sensitive, and the PS team prefers to set limitations on PvP and disallow PKing entirely to prevent such situations.
Then what about my city guard proposal? Just a few NPC\'s that walk through the city and if they see a criminal in action the go after him, trowing this people in jail for several hours so they can only walk in a little room with other criminals or even killing them since the death realm would be made so frightening?
*edit*
Originally posted by Xordan
You don\'t need to kill/steal to be evil :P
I have had a few ideas of how to cater better for the more chaotic evil players, but nothing like this will happen too soon. Our world isn\'t big enough.
what idea\'s?
Please avoid posting two or more successive posts before others have replied. Just edit your last post to add new information :) Thanks! --Karyuu
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Not all ideas for development are open for public discussion.
A city guard concept that would involve NPCs chasing \"wrong-doers\" has been suggested numerous times before though. If this is all the thread is about, it\'s pretty much a duplicate... :)
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one way to aprouch this could be.. when a evil action is made ex:. (pickpocket and theft) there would be a percentage no greater then 70%(could be based on lvl of skill + a stat Vs another stat/skill on victim) of going unnoticed, if it would be noticed the victim would get a splash screen informing him that he was \"robbed\" and would give him the option too.. ignore, force duel on thieve, set alarm(set alarm would be like a cry for help, were all the chars not evil would receive the option to force duel the thieve) if the thief died the stolen goods would be auto transfered back to the victim.
what a thieve would be able to steal.. in my opinion only things that wouldnt be in contact with his body (ex:. torso, boots, gloves etc..) about the amount of stuff that shows up when performing a theft could increase with skill lvl, the same with the amount of stuff one could rob, say (ex:.
player z uses pickpocket on player x!
[ player x has a 1 knife, 1 shield, 10 iron ore, 2 bars, 1 pick axe, 50000 trias ]
at lvl1 player z would see ex:.(100 trias) but if he would try to steal all he would increase his chances of being noticed but if he would try to get only 10 he would increase chances of being unnoticed.
at max lvl player z would be able to see all the inventory of player x including items that are in the body, but those would be of limit to him since it would make him noticed with 100% chance and fail the atempt
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That\'s actualy a pretty good system for it.
But the question is: Do we want PvP thieving at all?
I\'d love it, but I can imagine how it would get annoying.
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well its a system that would not encourage thieving, much like in the medievel times townpeople would make millitias on thieves.
just adding one more thing: if the thieve would log off the stolen goods would go back to the victim.
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Originally posted by minetus
well its a system that would not encourage thieving, much like in the medievel times townpeople would make millitias on thieves.
just adding one more thing: if the thieve would log off the stolen goods would go back to the victim.
it\'s a damn good system and militia would be a good replacement for the npc\'s then but what is the use of stealing when your stuf go back?
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I think he means that the stuff would go back if you stole the stuff, but were noticed and force dueled, then you log off so you don\'t have to fight, then the stuff goes back, but if you go unnoticed you would keep it I think.
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good point
adding this:
the stollen goods would only go back to the victim if the victim noticed the theft and duel+kill the thief or doing the allarm and one of the surrounding players (that are in the allarme area) kills the thief, or thief logs off - in a time period say 5-10minutes?
also:
the allarme area would be of about 50m +- in PS world units something like that(around 35x the size of a dwarf, sounds a significant area)
also:
i tink this would favor group partying and more people moving together since a lone target would be a easy target somewhat most of the times, and thieves would have too think more than 3 times before they act evolving the rp environment, also a penalization if the thief is caught might aply, like loosing some money
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Originally posted by minetus
good point
adding this:
the stollen goods would only go back to the victim if the victim noticed the theft and duel+kill the thief or doing the allarm and one of the surrounding players (that are in the allarme area) kills the thief, or thief logs off - in a time period say 5-10minutes?
also:
the allarme area would be of about 50m +- in PS world units something like that(around 35x the size of a dwarf, sounds a significant area)
also:
i tink this would favor group partying and more people moving together since a lone target would be a easy target somewhat most of the times, and thieves would have too think more than 3 times before they act evolving the rp environment, also a penalization if the thief is caught might aply, like loosing some money
you could not be more right my friend, fear gathers people round ;)
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well then moderators i think minetus did a very good proposition. Will you consider it now?
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Originally posted by Xordan:
...nothing like this will happen too soon. Our world isn\'t big enough.
We may have our own ideas as well, but this is for the future, as stated.
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Keep talking if you want about it of course, perhaps you will think of something the devs have not and may wish to add.
This is the wish list, which means it is pretty much a place where players post about features they want and the devs will come and check in on it every now and then, if they see anything exceptionaly good looking they may implement it but, chances aren\'t overly high.
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The level idea has been suggested before. The problem is PS does not have levels. You will have to use skill points instead. And if you don\'t have any restrictions High skill level thieves will rob low skill player?s blind. You can add a restriction to only allow thieves to be able to steal from players within 5 skill levels but this will favor more combat oriented players. Those with high crafting skills will be attacked by high level thieves and will have no chance at dueling the thief to get the items back. This will put pressure on the bounty hunter system that you proposed. It will be up to good-natured players who can stand around for long periods of time just waiting for players to get into trouble. PS already has a server of these. There called GM\'s. Finding more players who do not want to be GM\'s but do want to be bounty hunters will be difficult as being a GM has desirable perks that bunt hunter will not have.
Even if you succeed in creating a vibrant thief bounty hunter system you will still have problems. Very few players will want to be the victim; they will want to be either a thief or a bounty hunter. Now your game will be reduced to a game-that-shall-not-be-named kind of game.
Originally posted by minetus
the stollen goods would only go back to the victim if the victim noticed the theft and
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or thief logs off - in a time period say 5-10minutes?
This is a very good idea for a PvP system. If PS ever decides to have thieving this would be a great idea.
also:
i tink this would favor group partying and more people moving together since a lone target would be a easy target somewhat most of the times, and thieves would have too think more than 3 times before they act evolving the rp environment, also a penalization if the thief is caught might aply, like loosing some money
You act as though a thief would back away from a challenge. In my experience this is not the case. This would just be more braggin rights if successful. And who says a thief would attack alone? When a band of 6 thieves comes upon your group of three, then what will you do? You bring a knife to a sword fight and your gona loose, err, well, if your dagger skill is not high enough you will.
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Originally posted by derwoodly
The level idea has been suggested before. The problem is PS does not have levels. You will have to use skill points instead. And if you don\'t have any restrictions High skill level thieves will rob low skill player?s blind. You can add a restriction to only allow thieves to be able to steal from players within 5 skill levels but this will favor more combat oriented players. Those with high crafting skills will be attacked by high level thieves and will have no chance at dueling the thief to get the items back. This will put pressure on the bounty hunter system that you proposed. It will be up to good-natured players who can stand around for long periods of time just waiting for players to get into trouble. PS already has a server of these. There called GM\'s. Finding more players who do not want to be GM\'s but do want to be bounty hunters will be difficult as being a GM has desirable perks that bunt hunter will not have.
Even if you succeed in creating a vibrant thief bounty hunter system you will still have problems. Very few players will want to be the victim; they will want to be either a thief or a bounty hunter. Now your game will be reduced to a game-that-shall-not-be-named kind of game.
Originally posted by minetus
the stollen goods would only go back to the victim if the victim noticed the theft and
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or thief logs off - in a time period say 5-10minutes?
This is a very good idea for a PvP system. If PS ever decides to have thieving this would be a great idea.
also:
i tink this would favor group partying and more people moving together since a lone target would be a easy target somewhat most of the times, and thieves would have too think more than 3 times before they act evolving the rp environment, also a penalization if the thief is caught might aply, like loosing some money
You act as though a thief would back away from a challenge. In my experience this is not the case. This would just be more braggin rights if successful. And who says a thief would attack alone? When a band of 6 thieves comes upon your group of three, then what will you do? You bring a knife to a sword fight and your gona loose, err, well, if your dagger skill is not high enough you will.
ok that was useless listen to this:
1. if you want people to fake certain behaviour that resembles real life behaviour then you will have to add criminals;
2. thieves better work alone, the gangs you speak of also in real life are loosers
3. there should not be a range of players to thieve of because if there was and you were a really high level, who the hell would you thieve from?
4. you just one of those crybabies i talked about, please if you don\'t want to be robbed just be alert
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Calling people crybabies when they offer an opinion that differs from your own won\'t help your idea in the slightest.
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and the term is carebear actualy...Non-PvPers are refered to as Carebears by the PvP community.
Not that it\'s important, just get your insults right :P
Aaaanyways,
Calling people anything insulting will not help your ideas and will usualy get the thread closed. Try to remember than everybody is different and that Planeshift is more inclined to PvE than PvP. If somebody disagrees with you he is not insulting you.
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ok that was useless listen to this:
1. if you want people to fake certain behaviour that resembles real life behaviour then you will have to add criminals;
Criminal behavior is really easy to reproduce. Just google \"OU crime\" and see what you get.
2. thieves better work alone, the gangs you speak of also in real life are loosers
I used the term band not gang, but the word is not that important. Any organized group of players will have the advantage over a solitary player. Grouping together for protection works both ways. Play Shadowbane and you will know that thieves do group.
3. there should not be a range of players to thieve of because if there was and you were a really high level, who the hell would you thieve from?
I actually do not like having arbitrary rules to PvP, I think they are too easy to exploit. I provided the level restriction rule as an option. With or without the level restriction you still have an issue with what to use for determining success or failure based on skill level. If a thief has a skill of 100 in pick pocket what do you match that up to to determine success? Sword skill? or do you need a whole new skill like awareness?
4. you just one of those crybabies i talked about, please if you don\'t want to be robbed just be alert
I am not sure I am who you think I am. I generally do not whine about loosing in game items or money. I do however like to complain on the boards. Is that what you mean by crybaby?
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@ derwoodly: you raise some good arguments, and thats what forums are for, to discuss and speak your mind on the subject..
@ burned man: being rude will lead you know were, remember not every one thinks like you and on top of that no one is obligated to follow your way of tinking i\'d advise you to tink 2 twice before posting next time..
ps. ill post after lunch to go back on topic..
*edit*
1st. sry for double post
The level idea has been suggested before. The problem is PS does not have levels. You will have to use skill points instead. And if you don\'t have any restrictions High skill level thieves will rob low skill player?s blind. You can add a restriction to only allow thieves to be able to steal from players within 5 skill levels but this will favor more combat oriented players. Those with high crafting skills will be attacked by high level thieves and will have no chance at dueling the thief to get the items back. This will put pressure on the bounty hunter system that you proposed. It will be up to good-natured players who can stand around for long periods of time just waiting for players to get into trouble.
mm i never sugested character level, but stat and/or skill level.
the stats/skills evolved could be in this case of theft in the thieve (agility + pickpocket) and remenber i did mension a cap \"70%\" that will limit the thief to that maximum success rate(+- 2/3 chance of success but that cap can be edited for a harder success amount...)
the whole point of this system is that.. to exist heros there has to be evil too.
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PS already has a server of these. There called GM\'s. Finding more players who do not want to be GM\'s but do want to be bounty hunters will be difficult as being a GM has desirable perks that bunt hunter will not have.
GM\'s task has nothing to do with this... unless a thief is griefing another character
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Even if you succeed in creating a vibrant thief bounty hunter system you will still have problems. Very few players will want to be the victim; they will want to be either a thief or a bounty hunter. Now your game will be reduced to a game-that-shall-not-be-named kind of game.
the idea is not to create a vibrant thief system, but one that could work.
in real life few to none steal for pleasure, is more of a nessecity. thats what im trying to describe.
check my post and you will see that i mensioned in the end that a punishment could be aplyed to the thief.
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You act as though a thief would back away from a challenge. In my experience this is not the case. This would just be more braggin rights if successful. And who says a thief would attack alone? When a band of 6 thieves comes upon your group of three, then what will you do? You bring a knife to a sword fight and your gona loose, err, well, if your dagger skill is not high enough you will.
not my intention, maybe you got it wrong.. the point is to make it a chalenge to the thief, making him act more strategicly then bluntely rob, imagine a thief in the hydla plaza trying to rob a player there...
he will have 1st to chose hes victim, 2nd if the area isnt to crowd then he will have to chose what path he would have to take to strike and then chose one escape root in case things go wrong...
i dont tink banding is viable.. a random timer on victim to get robed again could aply here, to avoid griefing a group theft would work similarly like the group loot system but this would be only 1 theft attempt per victom, the only thing is that has a group the thief would be more protected and could face a larger N? of players here again they would have still have to think strategicly to achieve theyr goal.
ps: i know theres spelling errors in there...
Don\'t apologize for a double-post. Just don\'t make one, and edit your last post instead to add new information. --Karyuu
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dont know if this has been sugested but,
mabey make theaving act like a spell, ie theif has to be in toutch range of player and stay in toutch range for x amount of time.
this wold promote real theifery tactics like distraction.
also thiefs that pull off a job shold remain unkown,
but mabey make a tag for those the fail ie
Jon doe
>known theif<
the theif tag shold also have a timer ie if the theif goes X ic time he is forgotten as a thef
NPCs sholdent be exemt from theft eather but make a pentelty system ie
Joe Doe steals From {npc} item worth X tria if cougt the pentilty is X4 minnets no interaction and fine X+50. and if X exededs 1000 tria jail time
X -999 hours in jail. or something along those lines.