PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Peacer on April 16, 2006, 02:35:14 pm
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make it able to kill npc\'s that are merchants... if it\'s in a quest or something... More realistic IMHO but irritating if someone kills merchants all the time hehe
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kill, kill, kill.
Isnt it enough that you can kill each other?
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no :P... but it could give some relatives to quests that you actually have to kill the merchant for defending someones child or whatdoiknow :)
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If you can write a more detailed wish, for example actually thinking of a way to prevent players from exploiting this and \"stealing\" the merchant, you will no doubt get more and better responses.
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ok now, there is a trigger to kill the npc, a thief could pickpocket him, a warrior kill if he didn\'t agree with him. A quester could kill him becuase it\'s involved in the quest to kill the man who threatnes a widows newly born son etc. An npc you can talk and battle with will make great progress imho. WOuld make agreat impression to if the npc attacked if you insulted it, *cough*questsolvers who can\'t solve their quests*cough*
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I\'m all for NPC killing. I\'m all for all the townspeople of Hydlaa dieing one day then miraculously being replaced by their grown up children the next time you log in.
However:
- \'important\' characters (Like trainers, Harniquist, unique merchants, bar owners) should be impossible to kill. If someone attacks Harniquist, they might hit them, and Harniquist might try to get away (or even fight back), but you\'ll never deal enough damage to kill them.
- if a player attacks a NPC, city guards come in and kill the player unless the player makes a speedy get away. I\'m not talking about guards which you can kill once you\'re levelled up -- I\'m talking about professionals here. Think maxed out powerlevellers who have a ring of eternity on each finger. And they ride giant bats, and shoot at you from the sky.
Or something.
Basically, there should be major consequences, but it should be possible. IMO. I\'m sure the devs would have fun entering the game as a NPC guard. :-D
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Making townspeople NPC\'s more like actual players is a good thing, making those NPC\'s easy to kill would be a very bad thing.
If this is going to be done it has to be done right, not simply give the option to kill anyone you want for whatever reason you want.
First off there is the guard idea, though Zanz described them a bit too overpowered in my opinion. Simple city guards should be fine, they have to be strong fighters but not near godlike because there will be many of them.
Simply put I\'d like to see the following possibilities happen ...
You try to murder (attack without being attacked first) a less important townsperson. From the moment you attack them you will go into an open PvP mode and any player can attack you at will. Also any other townsperson NPC in the vicinity can attack you if it is in their nature, or run from you if it isn\'t. Guards will come rallying to the crimescene in groups of 2-5 and attack you.
If you succeed, the townsperson is killed and later (between 10 and 60 minutes) replaced by another random townsperson with a different name.
You try to murder a very important townsperson. Unless there is a specific quest/event involved this townsperson will be virtually undefeatable. However to maintain realism we can still keep the option of trying to kill them open and make them unable to die or be killed in various ways.
For example:
- Harnquist or Trasok: \"The blacksmith dodges your attack and manages to throw his smithing hammer right between your eyes. You\'re dead!\"
- Sharven: \"The moment your weapon was about to deliver the finishing blow you are struck by a searing firebolt from the sky and turned into a pile of ash, while Laanx\' voice echoes through the remnants of your being: \"Do not harm my faithful!\" \"
...
When you do manage to attack that important NPC, questrelated, things will be like the first option. However if the NPC dies it shouldn\'t respawn as another random NPC but as itself and saying: \"Phew, good thing I managed to get out of the Death Realm so quickly.\"
With these options killing NPC\'s is more or less possible but very hard to pull off.
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Being able to kill townspeople would be cool - eg. if I\'m too frustrated about Jayose\'s stubborn \"I don\'t understand you!\"-replies, I could vent some anger by fighting him :D
Icing on the cake would be of course if looting then reveals the holy scroll i asked for. Though it would definitely be a bad precendent for our younger ones :) if the fighting way is easier than the talking way...
Greetings,
Oliver
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Originally posted by oliver123
Being able to kill townspeople would be cool - eg. if I\'m too frustrated about Jayose\'s stubborn \"I don\'t understand you!\"-replies, I could vent some anger by fighting him :D
Icing on the cake would be of course if looting then reveals the holy scroll i asked for. Though it would definitely be a bad precendent for our younger ones :) if the fighting way is easier than the talking way...
Greetings,
Oliver
The whole point is that we DON\'T want people killing important NPCs like Jayose!
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Player 1: Yea, lets all gang up on Harnquist and when the gaurds come, everyone gang up on them
Player 2: K. Lets do that
They fight
Player 1: Wow! This gaurds armor and ring of eternity is sick man! I have 5000 HP and 4000 Mana!
Player 2: Check out this Pterosaur that the gaurd was riding! Mine now!
Nooblin 1: WTF WH3R3 R H4RNQU157! 1 N33D S3LL R47 H1D3S1111
Nooblin 2: Where is harnquist???!??!?!?!!?
Player 1: So want to do it again?
Player 2: K.
half an hour passes, all things above repeat, player 1 and player 2 freeload off of gaurd\'s things, take harnquists things, and become extremely rich.
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Originally posted by dragonfire999
Player 1: Yea, lets all gang up on Harnquist and when the gaurds come, everyone gang up on them
Player 2: K. Lets do that
They fight
Player 1: Wow! This gaurds armor and ring of eternity is sick man! I have 5000 HP and 4000 Mana!
Player 2: Check out this Pterosaur that the gaurd was riding! Mine now!
Nooblin 1: WTF WH3R3 R H4RNQU157! 1 N33D S3LL R47 H1D3S1111
Nooblin 2: Where is harnquist???!??!?!?!!?
Player 1: So want to do it again?
Player 2: K.
half an hour passes, all things above repeat, player 1 and player 2 freeload off of gaurd\'s things, take harnquists things, and become extremely rich.
That\'s why guards should be more powerful than even maxed out players (they\'re professionals, afterall) and they shouldn\'t drop good loot.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
Originally posted by dragonfire999
Player 1: Yea, lets all gang up on Harnquist and when the gaurds come, everyone gang up on them
Player 2: K. Lets do that
They fight
Player 1: Wow! This gaurds armor and ring of eternity is sick man! I have 5000 HP and 4000 Mana!
Player 2: Check out this Pterosaur that the gaurd was riding! Mine now!
Nooblin 1: WTF WH3R3 R H4RNQU157! 1 N33D S3LL R47 H1D3S1111
Nooblin 2: Where is harnquist???!??!?!?!!?
Player 1: So want to do it again?
Player 2: K.
half an hour passes, all things above repeat, player 1 and player 2 freeload off of gaurd\'s things, take harnquists things, and become extremely rich.
That\'s why guards should be more powerful than even maxed out players (they\'re professionals, afterall) and they shouldn\'t drop good loot.
I was just giving an example of what may have happened due to the idea at top.
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Easy fix for Taser\'s scenario n?1:
Guards and townspeople NPC\'s won\'t drop loot, maybe a few trias at the very most.
Easy fix n?2:
Loot items dropped by guards will be recognized by other guards when carried and you\'ll be branded as a guard killer and attacked by every guard in the game without warning as long as you have that item.
Loot items dropped by NPC merchants or other townsfolk will be recognized by them and their friends and make sure they will no longer interract with you in any way, possibly even attack you on sight.
Easy fix n?3:
Other players can\'t interfere in the battle. As soon as one player attacks an NPC that NPC and the involved NPC\'s + guards will be impervious to all other players. This fix is the least realistic though since I think if it should be possible to kill townspeople and fight guards it should also be possible to do it in a group.
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Words and phrases like \"impervious\" and \"open PVP\" make me nervous.
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Originally posted by Cyl
kill, kill, kill.
Isnt it enough that you can kill each other?
are we playing the same mmorpg? I\'m playing PS and no, we can\'t kill each other...
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edit to player 1 and 2 story
player1: hey let\'s pwn harnquist and the guards i ust got 4000 hp with 1337 z0rz sk11z
player2 Yeah i\'m in
Peacer hears teh conversation and decides to join it
Peacer: excuse me my good men, what are you perhaps talking about?
player1: we want to kill harnquist.
Peacer draws his swords to fast for the eye to catch
Peacer: oh really, if you hit him once i will help the guards and kill you instead.
Player1: ahh shut up u n00b u can\'t harm u5 w3 h4v3 teh 1337 zorz sk11z
Player1 hits harnquist for 500 damage.
Peacer cast\'s dancing death on player1
Player1 has lost the duel
Harnquist rewards Peacer with 1000 tria for saving his life
PLayer 2 hit\'s harnquist for 509 damage
Peacer cast\'s dancing death on Player 2
Player 2 has lost the duel
Harnquist rewards Peacer with 1000 tria for saving his life
Peacer sends player1 and player2 a telepatic message that echose in their heads \"next time i hear you talking about killing our town\'sfolk i will kill you before you touch him\" The voice fades echoing away
Player1 tells you: hey u n00b 1 4m g01n6 t0 pwn u and u can\'t save h4rnqu15t again u n00b
PLayer 2 tells you the same
(guildtab)Peacer sends a howl of war through the valleys to come and protect harnquist.
Peacer sees the Guardians comming to him from every angle, also the air.
Player1 and player2 respawns from death realm with player3 and goes to harnquist with lots of protection spells and sees some guardians.
The guardian mages cast dancing death on player1, 2 and 3, The guardian warriors tries to near them but only sees the ashes of player1, 2 and 3
Peacer sends player1 a telepatic message that.... \"now stay away or feel my blade before you come to the surface\"
Player1 tells you:hey u noobs try comming down here we have 1 more n0w and h3 pwns 411 0f u su><><0r5
The Guardians have killed themselves.
Battle in death realm, player1 2 and 3 get\'s killed over and over again untill they learn their lesson.
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other thoughts.
when you attack an npc or townsfolk other players may join to, depending on their alignment whic is up to themselves.
Guards are hard but not unbeatable, they can be taken 1 by 1 but not in a pack, and the playres who doesn\'t wish for them to die will help the npc\'s or players, (usually npc\'s as they want to sell their stuff.)
the open pvp starts when a player attacks an npc then he can be attacked or helped by anyone.
Easy fix n?1 and Easy fix n?2 from zan are good to :)
Edited for language.
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Originally posted by Bebel
Originally posted by Cyl
kill, kill, kill.
Isnt it enough that you can kill each other?
are we playing the same mmorpg? I\'m playing PS and no, we can\'t kill each other...
Ohh did they take out the /challenge command?
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Originally posted by Peacer
edit to player 1 and 2 story
player1: hey let\'s pwn harnquist and the guards i ust got 4000 hp with 1337 z0rz sk11z
player2 Yeah i\'m in
Peacer hears teh conversation and decides to join it
Peacer: excuse me my good men, what are you perhaps talking about?
player1: we want to kill harnquist.
Peacer draws his swords to fast for the eye to catch
Peacer: oh really, if you hit him once i will help the guards and kill you instead.
Player1: ahh shut up u n00b u can\'t harm u5 w3 h4v3 teh 1337 zorz sk11z
Player1 hits harnquist for 500 damage.
Peacer cast\'s dancing death on player1
Player1 has lost the duel
Harnquist rewards Peacer with 1000 tria for saving his life
PLayer 2 hit\'s harnquist for 509 damage
Peacer cast\'s dancing death on Player 2
Player 2 has lost the duel
Harnquist rewards Peacer with 1000 tria for saving his life
Peacer sends player1 and player2 a telepatic message that echose in their heads \"next time i hear you talking about killing our town\'sfolk i will kill you before you touch him\" The voice fades echoing away
[...]
The idea itself is not bad, but there are a few problems:
First, magic is not that strong at the moment, so you cannot kill any players (no matter if newbies or powerlevelers) after you cast any spell only once. Chances are good a newbie with a standard weapon would kill you before you\'ve casted enough spells to kill him. Sad, but true.
Second, there is no guarantee that there always will be some players around who try to stop other players from killing a merchant/ NPC.
(And, third, there\'s no \"dancing death\" spell at the moment.;))
I think players should not be able to attack or even kill any merchants or trainers at all. Otherwise we would soon see powerlev... er, players with high stats and skills who camp merchants and kill them as soon as the respawn. And nobody can really want such a thing.
Originally posted by Peacer
other thoughts.
when you attack an npc or townsfolk other players may join to, depending on their alignment whic is up to themselves.
Guards are hard but not unbeatable, they can be taken 1 by 1 but not in a pack, and the playres who doesn\'t wish for them to die will help the npc\'s or players, (usually npc\'s as they want to sell their stuff.)
the open pvp starts when a player attacks an npc then he can be attacked or helped by anyone.
Easy fix n?1 and Easy fix n?2 from zan are good to :)
Well, if you really can\'t help but want to be able to attack merchants, there should be some limitations:
- \"Zan\'s easy fix\" #1 and #2
- \"Thoronadors fix #1\":
Guards should be hard to kill (hard as in \'nearly impossible\'), even for players with high/ maximized stats.
- \"Thoronador\'s fix #2\":
Players should not be able to kill the same merchant twice in a row (in order to avoid that the same merchant is killed again and again).
I hope that the devs won\'t allow players to kill merchants, but if they do so (for any mad reason), they should include some features which heavily discourage players to attack merchants.
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If there are generic randomized merchants with generated names, sure -- kill them.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
Words and phrases like \"impervious\" and \"open PVP\" make me nervous.
Maybe if you keep them in their given context they won\'t make you so nervous ;) I talked about impervious and open PvP under very strict conditions.
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@thoronador: my example was from if the game was fully developed ;). Where magic will be a lot more powerful than before ;). And who knows, maybe there is a dancing death spell at that time hehe, (swouldn\'t bother me :P)
but camping an npc that drops 3 trias and you get guards after you could give some good rp stuff for ppl who likes challenges and difficult problems, as an evil character. If you kill the same merchant npc right after it spawns. Well then the whole guardcommand will show up behind if the merchant isn\'t a follower of any god, and if he/she is, that god could come hit you after you do it twice.
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The \"easy button\" on this one is just leave NPC\'s as unattackable. I actually like this solution because it avoids the acidental newbie attack and instadeath that other games have. You can think of it as the NPC\'s have their duel option set to auto decline.
I personally dislike the high level guard that kills you in one hit, but lets clackers, rats, and rouges run rampant through the sewers and roads and whatnot.
For those of you who care there are some more detailed threads on this arguement in the PvP forum. One like this.
http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=15973&boardid=21
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Originally posted by derwoodly
I personally dislike the high level guard that kills you in one hit, but lets clackers, rats, and rouges run rampant through the sewers and roads and whatnot.
When was the last time you saw a rogue in the city?
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Akkaio is full of them, Zanz. so Derwoodly does have a point. Personally I dislike seeing those rogues in the city, especially if you can\'t get rid of them since they keep respawning. It wouldn\'t be unrealistic that a rogue manages to sneak past the city walls from time to time but if it\'s killed it shouldn\'t respawn inside the town a few minutes later, half an hour at the very least or simply respawn outside.
Also city guards should of course engage hostile NPC\'s when they encounter them on their pratrols.
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Originally posted by Zan
Akkaio is full of them, Zanz. so Derwoodly does have a point. Personally I dislike seeing those rogues in the city, especially if you can\'t get rid of them since they keep respawning. It wouldn\'t be unrealistic that a rogue manages to sneak past the city walls from time to time but if it\'s killed it shouldn\'t respawn inside the town a few minutes later, half an hour at the very least or simply respawn outside.
Also city guards should of course engage hostile NPC\'s when they encounter them on their pratrols.
I agree that rogues shouldn\'t be past the city walls. Then again, there aren\'t any guards in Akkaio, just merchants and workers.
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Last time I checked there weren\'t any gards around to do patrols in Akk, has this changed?