PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kerol on May 19, 2006, 01:59:59 am
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I worked out this minigame idea for PS the last few days with help by some friends (Seperot, Kanalal and Nilrem, mainly).
I tested it out myself and made the rules clearer and simpler, but it still needs a lot of testing.
However, I talked to Talad and he was positive about this little project (otherwise I wouldn't post this here).
The infrastructure for minigames is in development recently, so there's a chance that this idea is included ingame sooner than later.
If you have friends, family to play with or just want to take a look at it and test out by yourself, feel free to download it :)
Here you can download the rules and board (the board jpg isn't as clean as it could be, but it shouldn't be a problem):
http://66.83.137.5:27967/chessrules.r6.pdf
http://66.83.137.5:27967/octarchchess.jpg
Thanks to Rerogo for hosting the files ^^
If you find any problems, uncertainties, typos or only want to send me a strawberry, just pm me :)
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That's really really cool :thumbup:
I'll try out a few games, and see if there is anything that leaps out to me as a problem.
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I have concerns about the power of the megara-riders. Using them in the very beginning may cause chessmate within 2 turns. Even when the mate is prevented, it puts the one with the first turn in a big advantage.
I considered changing the starting positions as one option and giving diplomats and vigesimi the power to prevent "overflights" , prevent units from moving over them (but not capturing them, of course) as second option.
In exchange one could reduce the power of the vigesimi by restricting them on 2 moves per turn.
However, those are just considerations if the recent setup doesnt work out.
People who test out the game may try those options and see whats more fun :)
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My only critique is that each side seems really far away from each other. Perhaps you should make the board a bit smaller? Other wise, it seems like the entire game would just be a chase.
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There are several reasons for that board size:
- Many pieces can move very fast over the board, making it possible to actually play tactically, not just strategically (building walls with the adventurers and such, though that is possible too)
- An octarch needs space to actually be able to run away, once his temple is taken over
- With that setup all fields on a players side are covered, giving little security against very soon and not well thought out attacks
- In a few moves (taking the hero on the starting position as example) you come to a good position at the rim of the opponents side, without entering yet
I don't think the board size itself is a problem. If people actually complain about the start being too slow, I rather change the starting positions and/or movement rules of the units than the board size. Doesn't mean that I ultimately will never consider changing the size, of course. With good reasons and some actual examples I am convinceable ;)
It's also the question how the fields being hexagonal are affecting the gameplay, considering the higher freedom for each piece.
Just a random sidenote: I calculated a bit after those concerns regarding the board size :)
european chess: 64 fields, 16 pieces per player = 32 pieces -> 32:32 fields = 1:1 (covered:free)
chinese chess: 90 line crossings (you play on the lines, not the fields), 16 pieces per player = 32 pieces -> 32:58 =1:1,8125 =(about) 1:2
octarchs chess: 144 fields, 18 pieces per player = 36 pieces -> 36:108 fields = 1:3
PS (offtopic): I also tried to calculate with the help of a formula how many usable line crossings (fields where you could move to, if one played on the lines instead) this board has and i failed horribly >.>
Edit: I found a formula, but not sure if it is right. The first attempt was by counting the edges of the fields and deriving the number of crossings by that. Second now:
2 x Sigma [from 1 to 12]=(2n+1)
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the board jpg isn't as clean as it could be...
PNG instead, or GIF, would have been wise.
Never use JPEG for technical drawings with hard edges, limited color counts, and high contrasts.
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About the rules:
Very complex, IMHO. If anyone will really start to play such games, he shall expect either soon chaos (if he doesn't think well about his moves), or up to hours for a game (knowing and considering all possible kinds of moves).
Could be fun to write a simulator, which includes coding an AI opponent, and discovering values for piece classes and positions. "Arabian chess" (schah = king) engines are compex enough, "Octarch's chess" engines will top that easily by some factor.
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Very complex, IMHO. If anyone will really start to play such games, he shall expect either soon chaos (if he doesn't think well about his moves), or up to hours for a game (knowing and considering all possible kinds of moves).
You mean too complex? Which of the rules you have in mind when stating this and what would you like to have simpler?
Edit: And thanks for the tip with the graphics :)
Kanalal sent me a updated board graphics. Will upload it as png asap.
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Maybe not "too", but quite complex. For example, the different ways of using a diplomat (kamikaze diplomacy, very funny...), open a lot of very different ways to surprise your opponent. And the conversion of opponent pieces to own (which does not exist in arabian chess) will vary heavily in value, depending on the place the piece is located, which will make it even harder to calculate for an AI. :D
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I see your point. Calculating the possibilities with such a big board, the templefields, the movement types which open up a lot of possibilities already (edit: also because the fields being hexagonal), plus the conversion thing _and_ additionally, the random element of a diplomat... not a trivial thing to program.. but who needs an AI if one can have a human opponent ;)
As long as the players relatively easy can get the principals of the game, it should be OK, IMO :)
Do you have problems in understanding the rules at one point? Any suggestions regarding movement, units?
Another Edit:
Do you have a link to a site where arabian chess is explained?
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arabian chess -> chess... for the most part.
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I called it "Arabian chess" mostly because of the persian name "schah" and the wheat board legend; but after reading again several threads (like Wikipedia in both german and english), it appears that the modern rules are based on italian modifications.
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hmm Megara Rider seems a bit overpowered. Perhaps a good idea to limit it's range or use the jump over other pieces on an other piece. Compared to chess for example only the knight can jump over other what is why it is so unpredictable, but that is why it's movement is so limited. So it can still be cornered.
Fanatic same concern it might be a bit overpowered compared to the other pieces.
checkmate might happen a little to fast with so many jumping highrange pieces.
Diplomat seems to have a lot of options for a boardgame. ;)
Also seeing a lot of rules of things that wont be possible for 3 turns or have to be done after 3 truns and such and although in a computerprogram I don't see that as a problem I would see that as a problem when playing it as a boardgame where I would actually have to memorize all my oponents last three turns aswell to know what he can't/ has to do.
Besides that I think it looks pretty good :)
I really like the boards shape and really like the thought that has abviously been put into it.
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I played the game monday in RL with a friend and came across a few minor problems, and after having some private talk, plus the suggestions here I updated the rules and Kanalal provided me with a better pic of the board.
Here are the links:
http://ps-mc.com/kerol/gameboard2.png
http://ps-mc.com/kerol/octarchs%20chess%20rules%20r7.pdf
This time thanks to Josephoenix for hosting :)
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Bandwidth Limit Exceeded
The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to the site owner reaching his/her bandwidth limit. Please try again later.
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Apache/1.3.34 Server at www.ps-mc.com Port 80
This is the message I get when I click your links Kerol... And I wanted to test the game today with an actual chess master :S
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same I'm afraid :(
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The links work again, as far as I'm concerned.
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Does work now indeed.
Any specific rules we should be looking at as changed?
PS: Was looking at the fanatic description and was wondering is the fanatic allowed to decide when he stops or does he have to move till he hit the side of the board?
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Changes from rev6 to rev7:
- made up the general rules
- temple-protection as well as being locked out of the temple are now only 2 turns (so you can count by using a coin, for instance)
- changed movement and attack by priests (making them more similar to vigesimi)
- Hero now may move 2 to the sides (R and L) as well
- Fanatics are now locked down only for as many turns as pieces were captured
- Diplomat can stop the movement of fanatics and megara-riders (experimental)
- duration of bureaucracy is 2 turns
- Kamikaze is now "suicide-bombing" in sight-line (experimental)
- if you get exchange but there is no target around, you may roll or move instead of the diplomat gets targeted by himself
PS: Was looking at the fanatic description and was wondering is the fanatic allowed to decide when he stops or does he have to move till he hit the side of the board?
Fanatics can stop wherever they want, in the line of movement.
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The latest revision - rev 8.
I took into consideration all the typos and grammatical things Netrhys was so friendly to point me at. I also included Kanalal's movement maps as well as Crystal's suggestions - mainly typos and minor corrections.
I overworked the diplomat a final time, took Proglin's and Hitancrias' thoughts into consideration and completed the base rules.
The game rules, chess board and pieces to print and cut out in order to play in RL can be found here (http://66.111.255.12/~psmirror/chess).
Gag made some fancier pieces as base idea for the arty devs when it comes to implementation. If you like to play with the fancier pieces or just take a look, you can find them at
http://www.ligh.de/pics/PSCB/oc_bright_priest.png <- the last bit is structured after oc_[bright ; dark]_[octarch; octarch2; priest; vigesimi; adventurer; hero; megara; megara2; diplomat].png
.
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the http://66.111.255.12/~psmirror/chess link doesn't seem to work?
Nice work on the chess game though!
A checkers kind of game is fully working at the moment already on Laanx, so the implementation of this game by a dev shouldn't be hard.
I will look at some of the rules later, I play chess so I hope I may have some usefull insights :)
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*sigh*
Sov and his server :P
the direct links:
http://www.psmirror.org/chess/PS%20chess%20pieces.png
http://www.psmirror.org/chess/gameboard2.png
http://www.psmirror.org/chess/octarchs%20chess%20rules%20r8.pdf
I hope that works out.
And if that doesnt work, try
http://66.111.255.12/~psmirror/chess/[filename]
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Looks like I missed a detail -- so I have to edit my board before I can publish a pretty version...
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I just wanted to clap. I haven't even downloaded anything, and I'm not going to till after I move, but I just want to say that this level of creativity and dedication to making PS a better game is highly applaudable. Good job Kerol.
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/me bows "thanks for the roses, but I haven't done it all alone" :D
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Sorry for the insubstantial post... but this is so cool! Thanks.