PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Clover on January 20, 2003, 09:01:01 am
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A Teleportation System would be a cool, and fast/easy way of transportation.
It would be only availble to mages or people with magical skills. He would travel to places around the world and set \"waypoints\" which he can then teleport to at a later time and not have to deal with the problem of walking all that distance. The reason for the waypoints is because you cannot teleport to a place you do no know about, probally get lost in the abyss and die.
p.s. I have never played a MMORPG before so i don\'t know how things actually work,(long distance traveling) but this seemed like a good idea to me.
Clover *Zzzzz...* (3:00am) :O
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Yes there needs to be a way to teleport from town to town but in a way that makes it so if your not higher leveled or been there you got to walk..
In other Mmogs people teleport the new players to areas they havn\'t been to. I feel that they should have to walk to them so that they came see the world and not skip the walking. Everyone should have to walk the first time...
this does make a prob like if i have my own house and i have vendors selling my goods i couldn\'t teleport people to sell my stuff but that would make Road side houses very wanted by players.
However this does help because less vendors then less for the servers to load making less lag. So i say you got to walk to somewhere first(or ride boats or other transportation) before teleportation
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NO PORTALS!
You should HAVE to travel between cities. Either by walking, or by riding a horse or by flying.
If you could just \"teleport\" beetween the cities it should be easy as pie to trade, there should be no ambushs, no horses, no adventure.
It would ruin all the fun! It\'s kinda like \"Zelda: majoras mask\" where you could just play a song and in the next second you were on the other side of the world.
This is fantasy, medival type and there should be no portals
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Teleporting is nearly a must have in games of this size of world. Yes in the begining you would have to run, walk, swim, fly, or what ever to get to the towns but portals should exist so that later the distances could be made shorter. No you shouldn\'t go directly to town and the portals should be somewhat dangerous so there is some bit of edge rather than just popping from place to place. If you had to always walk to places then it would get entirely too boring. You are too strong for anything in the areas to bother you so it would be nothing more than a long boring run. It is a sure fire way to loose player intrest at higher strengths and ability.
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I think that high-level players will simply fly or ride which is a much faster way to travel between long distances.
Flying in planeshift should be fun so that no players would get bored.
It could even be possible to use flying creatures as \"taxis\" so that you could take players to other cities for a sum of money.
Monsters should always be dangerous, and would even threat the experienced fighters/mages.
If a newbie wanna travel between cities he should have to ask another player to take him to that city (or place)
When you travel things should happen all the time to make the road-travel become more interesting.
If it\'s boring to walk around in a game, then it\'s not a good game I say. :)
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Hear hear, fanomatic!
I agree that flying creatures should be a replacement for teleporting. Perhaps you could switch into a 2D overhead mode, and navigate your way to another landing spot.
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For those so against teleportation, I think you will all change your toon when you are in game, when it is finished, and find to go from one town to another it will take 3 to 4 hours even on a winged mount. Three to four hours just to pick up a few items for a trade skill that only one city has but all other items are in another city. Three to four hours of boring travel to pick up a single item. You would surtly get sick of it and start playing less and less or just give up on the special trade all together.
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Has it already been made to take three or four hours to travel?
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TWO TO THREE HOURS!?? OMG! :P
Is the world so large that it will take three to four HOURS to FLY from one town to another? ROFLOL! :D
I don\'t think that the distances will be THAT large....(I don\'t even wanna think about what it takes to WALK from one town to another :D 3 RT weeks?)
anyway if it IS that large it\'s even cooler, because you need a whole party to travel from one place to another. If the land of PS is so big that it takes 3-4 RT hours to travel between towns, it\'s larger than sweden, and how many cities do you think there\'s going to be? 3-4? LOL :D
Hehe, do you belive in it yourself or what? Or have you actually seen it? :P
Perhaps it will take you five hours to WALK from one side of the world to the other side.
If you\'re right however this is the largest game ever made! 8o
If you don\'t care about the adventure you get when traveling I don\'t see the point in playing this game ?( This is RPG! I would rather see carts, and horses, and dragons, and gigantic birds...
I\'m not sure about the future thought...
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I am guessing that Kendaro is not referring to cities in the stactite (unless you are walking from bottom to top using stairs the whole way, in which case the trip is supposed to hard). Thus, flying is not an option in those circumstances. You would have to walk endless miles through treacherous caves and tunnels.
Despite this, I am against wide-spread teleportation travel. Walking helps to force players to explore and gives more game atmosphere. Additionally, it helps seperate out the dificulty of the MOBs. If you can make it to a certain city, then you can take on its dungeons.
I think \"recalling\" is UO\'s biggest flaw and I\'d hate to see it spoil this game.
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I am talking about the stelactite. It it obvious now to see that most are not familiar with the size of the world you will be playing in. Have any of you played EverQuest and or DAoC? In EQ it took about three hours, with speed enhancements, to get from Freeport to Qeynos. This was on the same continent. To take a boat to another continet was extreamly boring. The presence of wizard spires and druid rings surely made travel more pleasent at higher end of the game.
Think of it this way. On the first level you have the main city that you see now in the demo. Also on this level there is the Enkidukai city of Ojavida. To get from one city to the other you will have to cover about 6 zones or so. That means just to get to one city it could take 30 to 40 minutes on foot.
The world that is being created is not some small thing at all. This is a huge world, though some cut into different levels, each level is huge and will take time to cross.
*Oh how I miss the days of playing EQ. Sitting in Feltwithe and getting a tell to meet people in Karana to go into PAW. I would run for a while and after about half an hour I would reach the boat dock. Then board the boat and sit around while it goes to Freeport and waist another 30 minutes or so. Then I would get off the boat after it arived in Freeport and start shouting for a SOW. After getting a SOW at the Freeport gate I would begin my run. Make my way through to Oasis and then run into a Sand Giant and become toe jam. Respawn back in Feltwithe and start over again. After about 5 or so hours I finally make it to Karana and I log off and go to bed.*
*Man was I ever so glad when I was on at peak times and could beg a wizzard or druid to teleport me*
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Originally posted by Kendaro
I am talking about the stelactite. It it obvious now to see that most are not familiar with the size of the world you will be playing in.
You are very correct in that assumption. Perhaps that wouldn\'t be a problem if we had a map (http://www.planeshift3d.com/forum/thread.php?threadid=2225&boardid=11&styleid=2) . :P
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ok, Teleportation is definitly a must for a world of this size, but it should be only be available to characters of high skills. Walking to cities in the begining is part of the fun and shouldn\'t be skipped by noobs. I believe we won\'t have horses but rather lizards which makes a fresh change, and flying should be fun, but TP id a must later on.
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HAHAHHAHAH UR GUYS ARE SICK!!!
HAVE ANY OF U GUYS EVER PLAYED DRAKAN???? THATS THE WAY HOW TO FLY IN THIS GAME (I HOPE)
and do u really belive in that it takes 3-4 hours to go from a city to another LOTFLOL (lying on the floor laughing out loud) AND IF THE WORLD IS THAT BIG IT WILL BE PRETTY BORING no not boring but VERY VERY big. i think its going to take aboute 30 minutes to FLY to a village to another. PS:dont u guys know that people will BUILD villages while thay are traveling and 1 thing more i think the animals u have buyed for example flying must drink to survive
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Uh, who let Fluffe in here?
Cringes.
The caps hurt me eyes!
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If you don\'t care about the adventure you get when traveling I don\'t see the point in playing this game ?( This is RPG! I would rather see carts, and horses, and dragons, and gigantic birds...
I\'m not sure about the future thought...
That is SO very true! RPG isn\'t hack&slash diablo type of game, where you\'re sorrounded by 100 monsters, each time you take a step. A real RPG is where you travel, and maybe meet a few monsters on your way. Boy, do I look forward to long travels, exploring new places \'n\' stuff :P I\'ve always loved being the first people to play a game... Going out to actually explore new places, making maps of places noone have ever seen.
AND IF THE WORLD IS THAT BIG IT WILL BE PRETTY BORING no not boring but VERY VERY big.
Big? Yes, very... But boring?! That\'ll never happen!
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Originally posted by Fluffe
and do u really belive in that it takes 3-4 hours to go from a city to another LOTFLOL (lying on the floor laughing out loud) AND IF THE WORLD IS THAT BIG IT WILL BE PRETTY BORING no not boring but VERY VERY big. i think its going to take aboute 30 minutes to FLY to a village to another.
Maybe you should have been a part of a real game like DAOC. When in beta, the head developer ran from starting city to the edge of what is the outskirts and the most dangerous. It took him 3 hours to do so and that was only ONE contenent. There were three more to the game. So in DAoC if you were in Midgar and went to Hybernia, it would take you six hours, not to mention the boat ride between the two contenents. There is no way you could say DAoC was boring either cause games like it and EQ run the world of MMORPGs and draw in the big bucks with thousands upon thousands of players.
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Even if the game is this big, I still don\'t want teleporting. It ruins everything just because of a couple lazy people. Nobody will be able to resist using teleporting because not doings so would make them fall behind their lazy friends.
Please no teleporting. It shouldn\'t take three hours to travel between towns.
I know to be realistic the towns should take forever to travel between, but RPG\'s tend to leave out parts in which nothing happens. In RL nothing happens when you travel, so it should be short because it cuts out most of the uninteresting parts.
Don\'t compare Planeshift to other games. It\'s going to be entirely different.
Also, I don\'t think an underground world would be as large as an aboveground world.
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Fanomatic2000 is completley right, teleporting ruins adventure. I had friends in Ragnarok online that didn\'t even know the world because teleporting so much. Its really lame and it does take away the feeling of adventure. There should be a quicker way to get places; maybe with secret shortcuts or riding animals but no teleporting!
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Kendaro, I really think you\'ve got exaggeration issues. Talking about three to four hours to the next town... and running; its always running with you. We are talking about flying or riding. And Freeport is not the next closest town to Qeynos in that joke of game, Everquest, its the farthest town. You are talking about running across a continent... that better take a long time (I dont think its 3-4 hours... but its pretty long).
In a reasonably developed game (which PS is), towns will be a reasonable distance from one another and flying as a means of transportation will take a reasonable amount of time. Whether there is teleporting or not, the developers will develop within reason. Three to four hours to the next closest town is insane.
Then again, if there are many continents, travel would become tedious and teleportation would be preferable. I guess a lot depends on how fast these birds are. ;)
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Well guy who must have read the history VERY WELL, The world of planeshift is located unground in a big stalactyte thing, I doubt there will be continents, and I doubt there will be 3/4 Hours to the next city, It would take forever to make then build the maps.
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agreed
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Originally posted by Kendaro
For those so against teleportation, I think you will all change your toon when you are in game, when it is finished, and find to go from one town to another it will take 3 to 4 hours even on a winged mount.
I did not say to the nearest city.... I said from one city that had something you needed to another that might have to be used for another reason. You guys talk about Ragnarok and then talk crap about a real game like EQ. What you don\'t realize is PS is following in the footsteps of EQ and other games like DAoC.
I can\'t give all the details but I will say one thing..... The first level and only the first level is of a surface space of over 1200,0KM squared...... and there is seven more levels of the stelactite, not to mention mines, dungeons the stone labyrinths, and the hollow world... If you think it will be fun to have to run fly or walk from point a to point b all of the time cause you think teleporting is bad.... Then you just dont use the protals then.... Let those that don\'t have hours of play time just to get from one area to another use the portals. No one if forcing you to use them so don\'t try to force your none use of them on others. Simply put if you don\'t like it don\'t use it. But like I said, once you get in game and find out how big the world is. You will be porting with the rest of them.
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ok, kenny, you win. No point in arguing over it now. Lets just wait and see. :)
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This system was used in Dransik. Except anyone could teleport. But it turned out they over-killed teleports and it made it too easy to get to more precious areas because all they had to do was teleport.
So, if you are going to make a teleport system, only put a FEW teleports and leave some areas to be discovered \"by foot\". :)
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The way EQ fixed the problem of portals is that you had to go to the aera first, before you could unlock the spell allowing you to portal to that place.
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Yeah that should work, and besides..its not like you won\'t travel at all, i mean, the teleports aren\'t going to be everywhere.
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Originally posted by Aruneko
Nobody will be able to resist using teleporting because not doings so would make them fall behind their lazy friends.
I know if there is teleporting this will happen.
Originally posted by Aruneko
So, no teleporting please. If you must, then there should be some kind of machine near the crystal which you step into the use, and only near the crystal, not all over the place in other towns. IF you must.
This, I think, limits the teleporting well.
Just bringing up a couple of points and reminders.
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Must be near the crystal? Do you not know that the crystal is like a sun? Thats why it is called the Azure Sun. Also it is in the roof of the first level. There is no way to get next to it unless flying but that would be like taking a shuttle to the sun.
The land is just too large for not having teleporting. If there was no teleporting, the high end game would just become entirely too boring and people will just quit over time.
Teleporting works for one reason. To make long distances of needless travel, shorter. Teleporting is also not normally available to all people. Mostly it is a high level magic spell that eitehr has to be resurched or purchased at high cost. What this ends up doing is those that can teleport charge others for their service. This would make it so that, unless a highly skilled magic user just felt generous, a new person to the game would not be able to just hop a portal to another part of the world. Still, to make the spell available the caster must travel to the area and obtain a key of some kind so that the spell will work. Also you are unable to just portal to anywhere you want. There are only choice spots that are set up around the world and that is what you portal to. From those locations you must then traverce your way to a city or other location.
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i think if its a long travel time you should be able to what about meeting freinds to hang out with in the game im not saying how but i think that there should be a mode of transportation other than walking if there is a lon distance involved.
:]
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Teleportation should be a very high level mage spell, I think in AD&D they have something called Shadowwalk, this allows a high level mage to travel trough another dimension to another person. Maybe we could restrict this to teleporting to other players and give players the ability to toggle this feature off. Also make it a portal that lasts a minute or so, so an entire group can walk trough it.
And since it is a high level spell, people will have to have travelled trough the world on foot or whatever means first before they can ever use teleportation.
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I think that teleportation is a good idea if it is used like so: You can\'t teleport there unless you\'ve already been there. But I think if you\'re an uber-mage that it could be possible to teleport to a place you HAVE NOT been to. I also like the ideas of turning an object into a portal to another place (would require another item at the other end). I disagree with teleporting to the location of where another person is unless:
A) The other person consents or
B) You have to be an uber-mage to do it because of the simple fact that it will eliminate the strategy of hiding from someone altogether. This eliminates the concept of hiding althogether, allowing access it private areas and lairs/hidey-holes.
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How about teleporting where some sort of cost or danger is involved? I\'d love to see some sort of Ways system (like in Wheel of Time) where you could enter the Ways at a gate, but the magic paths between waygates are full of danger.
I\'d love to see a teleportation system approached in a more roleplaying way - e.g. players need to cooperatively discover and build a waygate system for themselves. (Of course this is just dreaming - having players permanently affect the world is...difficult).
I hope that teleporting isn\'t free though.
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Having players cooperate and build a portal has its advantages, but like you said, players changing the world is difficult and time consuming.
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Teleportation... eek I prefer hiring someone to fly me.
If long journey\'s are a must then players will be more inclined to stay in certain areas and the need or want to travel would be a big deal or great adventure. No doubt I\'ll spend most of my time in a place where my guild settles.
One of the other things about teleportation, it must be a powerful spell to travel great distances... but can I use it to teleport into places or where I want to go shorter.. and if not then why?
What affects would teleportation have on trade?
I guess it would eventually lead to its death... thats if some areas hold materials different to another.
Instead of flying it out or walking it between cities (time restricting flow) it would be a matter of *whoosh* buy some stuff *whoosh* back home I go.
Also are there villages and towns between big cities? no doubt if there are the journey may not be as boring.
Anyway I hope its implemented well, hopfully costly too. I\'d still prefer travel to be done by more conventional means.
*edit*
I do like however the idea of the portals, maybe more complex to implement but the ability for a group to build a portal in a city and another in another city and linking them would be VERY interesting. Especially if these were done in player buildings (guild houses?)
*/edit*
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Now that I think about it, you are right. Teleportation would only make it too easy to get things from place to place, eliminating the adventure, and making certain skills easier. Although, as far as flying goes, I would like to actually fly i.e. Direct my Pterosaur/Megara through the air at an accellerated rate, rather than *whoosh* youre there *whoosh youre back like in Pokemon. But maybe there could be portals to get to places you couldnt get to otherwise, instead of using them to provide an alternative to walking/pulleying/flying.
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Please not another portal system! I\'d rather have teleportation! The portals could be an addition, but not exclusive, because either the spell is so easy that creating them isn\'t difficult, therefore it\'s incomprehensible why it wouldn\'t be possible to use arbitrarily, or it is hard, but then the portals would be very rare and their use would be highly restricted and expensive.
I don\'t think teleportation would kill trade unless it\'s done by portaly, because the teleport spell would be limited by weight you can carry or it\'d add immense amounts of mana cost. A portal would allow you to simply keep stuffing things through it, even if you\'d have to carry them through personally, so a rich merchant would just build a portal at the location they wish to get stuff from and pay ppl. to keep transporting them through the portal.
The portal system would combine the inflexibility of being highly static with the disadvantages of teleportation.
So, if anything, I\'d advocate an instant teleport spell that is complex, costly (mana-wise) and limited in distance or to places that are known well to you (i.e., no teleporting to the location on the drawing or that someone tells you of). Of course you\'d be free to try anyway, but then there should be high chances of catastrophic failure.
This would be quite cool IMO to be able to actually force a teleport to go wrong (or give it a high chance), for the thrill of it. Yes, it would give the high level mages something interesting to do!
Well, chances are you\'d end up in a wall or something, but maybe the spell would be avoiding this by itself (because it needs to do so anyway as there might be someone or something at the place you teleport to).
Nothing beats appearing totally naked, with no mana or luggage left, in the middle of a battlefield some planes away!
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I have given this some thought, one thing that I would like to see is Party\'s & Group-Hunting encouraged. it makes for a more RP atmosphere.
One of the disadvantages to Groups is when one of your Party dies, they get separated from the group (& yes they go to the DR.) anyway after they get out of the DR, I\'d like the option to Teleport to the leader of the group. that way the group does not have to go back for that person or that person has to catch up.
There really would be not much of an advantage to teleporting to the group leader because you have to meet that person to form a group with them. so the merchants couldn\'t really exploit it. :]
& Maybe (but probably not) a system were you can create a portal to another person if you are both using the same portal spell @ the same time, it would say something like \"Joe wants to make a portal to you? (y/n)\" - but I can see how merchants could exploit this...
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Originally posted by Seytra
I don\'t think teleportation would kill trade unless it\'s done by portaly, because the teleport spell would be limited by weight you can carry or it\'d add immense amounts of mana cost. A portal would allow you to simply keep stuffing things through it, even if you\'d have to carry them through personally, so a rich merchant would just build a portal at the location they wish to get stuff from and pay ppl. to keep transporting them through the portal.
Where does it say a teleport spell limits anything? Where does it say a portal couldn\'t be restrictive?
Thats like me saying teleportation is such a drain and disorientation to a character that it can only be done once a day; otherwise the character will suffer permanent damage to psyche or death, where as portal travel is more controlled and safer allowing 2-3 travels a day. - eek I just made that up, I\'m not going to impose this on your arguement though in order to endorse portals over teleportation.
Unless better defined they mean the same thing to me - instant travel. The only real difference in definition and as I can tell so far is its viewed here as; portals are static and a teleportation spell is mobile, but essentially they are the same. There are no doubt valid rule systems to allow either or both to exist with reasonable limitations and benefits, as far as I know there are no hard and fast rules to exclude either though.
Anyway moving on... my arguement earlier was slim on details but based on a worry that either may be implemented in such a way that would harm the gameplay and economy of a world that hasn\'t started :D . Having said that I said I prefer the use of conventional means over instant travel for the norm, but still liked the idea of the portals though, why?
Because Kendaro\'s description of the portal system sounds interesting - specific places you need to go to firstly unlock the portal, specific places to cast a spell to... I guess open a portal/teleport? these portals are dangerous somehow...
While I like it but still am worried about its effects on the game and the game economy especially through trade and especially long term when there are many high level characters *whooshing* around the place.
I would also be interested in large scale projects for guilds ands organisations that allow many players to pool resources in order to create things, a portal being one... but unlike the normal portals it requires a portal at each end (think Stargate) there by doubling the resources required and time to build. Have them require charge up times, cool off times and consume large amounts of power/resources to run (open only for a few secs) they could allow limited access to remote strongholds in a guilds territory allowing movement of players and items. The cost to activate the device in itself maybe enough to restrict its use in trade as the cost of items to recoup losses might not compete with those traders willing to take the time to travel by sea and land and air.
Another idea that I find entertaining would be travel in a manner similar to the wheel of time ways, but the twist is you are attempting to travel through the death realm. This may allow trade there if communities are encouraged, quests like in ancient greek mythology, or perhaps the living who enter the death realm do so at great risk... use your imagination here :D.
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Originally posted by Stydracos
Where does it say a teleport spell limits anything? Where does it say a portal couldn\'t be restrictive?
Nowhere, true.
Originally posted by Stydracos
Thats like me saying teleportation is such a drain and disorientation to a character that it can only be done once a day; otherwise the character will suffer permanent damage to psyche or death, where as portal travel is more controlled and safer allowing 2-3 travels a day. - eek I just made that up, I\'m not going to impose this on your arguement though in order to endorse portals over teleportation.
Possible, but it should also manifest in the char\'s status, i.e. you get maluses on many things after teleporting, which will wear off only over time (say, 30 minutes RL time).
Still I see queues of ppl. with buckets of ore being paid solely to travel the portal once a day. A typical job for students who want to earn some money during the holidays. :]
Originally posted by Stydracos
Because Kendaro\'s description of the portal system sounds interesting - specific places you need to go to firstly unlock the portal, specific places to cast a spell to... I guess open a portal/teleport? these portals are dangerous somehow...
Maybe this is my biggest objection to the portal system: you having to go there and unlock the portal. I can\'t think of any reason other than artificially restricting it for this to be required. I mean, portals are like subways, I don\'t need to walk to the station I wish to go before I can use the subway to go there...
Either the portals are magically linked to each other, therefore you\'d just need to select the destination, no need to have been there before,
or they are not linked, which would just mean that you\'d simply need knowledge of some form of coordinates for the target portal. as you can easily remember these, they can\'t be too hard to tell someone else, so there is bound to be a \"portal book\" (like a phone book)...
Originally posted by Stydracos
While I like it but still am worried about its effects on the game and the game economy especially through trade and especially long term when there are many high level characters *whooshing* around the place.
I\'m not sure of this. Of course it will have effects on the economy, but my opinion is that it will merely create a different economy, not make trade impossible / pointless. After all, even in an isolated city there will be trade. Let the farmer teleport the grain to the mill, it\'s not that much of a deal IMO.
Granted, large-distant travel would be unusual and the scarcity of goods created by these distances would not exist, but is this such a bad thing? I\'m not entirely sure, but long-distance trade isn\'t my main interest so I\'m of course biased.
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Originally posted by Seytra
Possible, but it should also manifest in the char\'s status, i.e. you get maluses on many things after teleporting, which will wear off only over time (say, 30 minutes RL time).
Still I see queues of ppl. with buckets of ore being paid solely to travel the portal once a day. A typical job for students who want to earn some money during the holidays. :]
Using maluses might be an interesting concept, it fits in nicely. I think I know what you mean about the queues of people. I forgot about how some players pay others to be a \'mule\' for them :).
Originally posted by Seytra
Maybe this is my biggest objection to the portal system: you having to go there and unlock the portal. I can\'t think of any reason other than artificially restricting it for this to be required. I mean, portals are like subways, I don\'t need to walk to the station I wish to go before I can use the subway to go there...
Either the portals are magically linked to each other, therefore you\'d just need to select the destination, no need to have been there before,
or they are not linked, which would just mean that you\'d simply need knowledge of some form of coordinates for the target portal. as you can easily remember these, they can\'t be too hard to tell someone else, so there is bound to be a \"portal book\" (like a phone book)...
I agree it looks like a set restriction, sounds like a player has to journey to the place to get the spell that will allow you to \'portal\' there. I think the idea is to force you to adventure to these place, as well as perhaps there will be less known portals (hard to get too).
I do like the idea from the standpoint of discovery.
The sense of adventure and accomplishment of collecting a portal spell. I\'ll then appreciate the instant travel after the time and trouble it takes to get the spell no doubt. Have to make your own phone book by the sounds of it :D .
Originally posted by Seytra
I\'m not sure of this. Of course it will have effects on the economy, but my opinion is that it will merely create a different economy, not make trade impossible / pointless. After all, even in an isolated city there will be trade. Let the farmer teleport the grain to the mill, it\'s not that much of a deal IMO.
Granted, large-distant travel would be unusual and the scarcity of goods created by these distances would not exist, but is this such a bad thing? I\'m not entirely sure, but long-distance trade isn\'t my main interest so I\'m of course biased.
Might be true, it\'ll just be a different economic setup.
Just a new trade route for the cities and from there it has to be moved out by more convientional means. I can warm to theat idea and am happy that the portals are fixed locations. Trade may very well become better for it, I guess its one of those things that has to be seen in order to determine if it can and will be abused.
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Originally posted by Stydracos
Originally posted by Seytra
Maybe this is my biggest objection to the portal system: you having to go there and unlock the portal. I can\'t think of any reason other than artificially restricting it for this to be required. I mean, portals are like subways, I don\'t need to walk to the station I wish to go before I can use the subway to go there...
Either the portals are magically linked to each other, therefore you\'d just need to select the destination, no need to have been there before,
or they are not linked, which would just mean that you\'d simply need knowledge of some form of coordinates for the target portal. as you can easily remember these, they can\'t be too hard to tell someone else, so there is bound to be a \"portal book\" (like a phone book)...
I agree it looks like a set restriction, sounds like a player has to journey to the place to get the spell that will allow you to \'portal\' there. I think the idea is to force you to adventure to these place, as well as perhaps there will be less known portals (hard to get too).
I do like the idea from the standpoint of discovery.
The sense of adventure and accomplishment of collecting a portal spell. I\'ll then appreciate the instant travel after the time and trouble it takes to get the spell no doubt. Have to make your own phone book by the sounds of it :D .
Yes, this interpretation of the effect is OK, but I have a strong aversion against artificial restrictions.
I love to explore, I love to discover, but I hate being forced to do so with no actual reason other than the wish to force me to. It instantly stops being fun for me.
Of course, the whole concept of the game is a set of artificial restrictions, but the huge difference is that great effort is being made for the whole construct to make sense and be realistic, with everything explained as logical consequence of the game world. I have no problems with that.
If, however, a restriction pops up that is there due to an badly designed / thought out system, and is a kludge to stop it from breaking, then the fun is gone. I\'d rather see it left out than have it encumbered by illogical and IMO braindead restrictions that lack every base in the game world.
(I.e. I can accept \"this is because the magic can be focused more easily, allowing for it to sustain itself and to carry more mass and also go greater distances more easily\", but I cannot accept \"It\'s like that so that the development effort for the intermediate regions isn\'t wasted\". You wouldn\'t like a program that opoerates this way, would you? \"This is like that so that the development effort for the intermediate dialogue screens isn\'t wasted\"... no, if the system is wasting my time and effort due to bad design, it\'s annoying like hell)
Even the rarest portals would be known to someone, and most certainly the ones within the adjacent towns will be known to almost anyone! So if a merchant sends you to the neighboring town, they\'d tell you of the portal so you can use it, it\'s in their very own interest that you\'ll go there as quickly and safely as possible! They\'re not going to tell you to walk there, face the myriads of obstacles, hostile creatures and whatnot to deliver their important, urgent package...
It would be way more fun for me to actually discover a lost portal somewhere that indeed is only known to me, if I wouldn\'t need to \"discover\" every single well-known portal.
This wouldn\'t work with the \"magically linked\" portals, unless you would be able to re-activate a broken / disconnected / powerless portal.
I would then be willing to share the knowledge with others, especially if I want them to go there!
It\'s things like that that add fun to the system IMO.
(I think that even instant teleport spells would be feasible if the system was thought through well.)
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I\'m not sure whether these portals would be one size fits all, or whether you can step in portal A to get to B, not step in A and choose B...
If it is the prior, then there is a reason that fits in with the setting... If I may make a reference to Eragon by Christopher Paolini... in that book the fabled dragon riders have the ability to \"scry\" to see what\'s happening in other places. However they can\'t see the land no matter how hard they scry if they have never seen it before. there was a mention of how some riders spent their whole lifetimes flying everywhere and seeing everything so they could see what was going on almost anywhere whenever they wished.
I agree that a 1-to-1 portal that you have to unlock to use would be senseless since there\'s the question of \"why the **** is the portal scroll always over there and never on this side of the portal?!\"
Or to draw on Robert Jordan\'s wheel of time series, it is possible that you could rig up not teleportation per se but instead a system like the Ways, and you could wander through them to find new \"Waygates\" without knowing where you\'re going.. but acquiring the knowledge from visiting the other end (perhaps the inscription on the gate) could give you the directions or \"translate\" portions of the mysterious script on each island that connects to a group of \"waygates\" in order to prevent you from wandering blindly
if anyone sees obvious flaws tell me.. I wasn\'t thinking this out totally before posting like I usually do...
josePhoenix
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I think that teleporting makes people jump over massiva amounts of gameplay too, so i think that permanent teleportfacillities should not exist, but that highly experienced magicusers should be able to create semi permenent portals that would be extremly hard to create, and that they would rip themselfs apart over time because of the emmense power they were created with, a portal should also have to be created at both ends, meaning that two highly experienced magicusers would have to work together because of the massive strain and cost a portal demands, with this i would hope to limit the portal creation to guilds, so they can create portals at various places, and as the portal rips itself apart a guild would have to have the ressources to rebuild it.
People not in a guild should also have a limited ability to teleport, this should be done by magicusers being able to create a object that binds itself to a place, so people can use that object to get to that place but only once after which it would be destroyed or expire. These items should not be easy to create and they should be worth alot, but they should not work for people who havent been in contact with the place they are bound to, and so they wont be extremly rare it should also be possible to purchase few, but very few of those in the major towns. Experienced magicusers should be able to create and sell them to people who need them and thereby creating a working system were people depending on what they needed done would either invest in a teleport item or portal, or an animal if the other things arent profitable.
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Originally posted by josephoenix
I\'m not sure whether these portals would be one size fits all, or whether you can step in portal A to get to B, not step in A and choose B...
If it is the prior, then there is a reason that fits in with the setting... If I may make a reference to Eragon by Christopher Paolini... in that book the fabled dragon riders have the ability to \"scry\" to see what\'s happening in other places. However they can\'t see the land no matter how hard they scry if they have never seen it before. there was a mention of how some riders spent their whole lifetimes flying everywhere and seeing everything so they could see what was going on almost anywhere whenever they wished.
This concept is usually used to limit instant teleport spells, at least in PnP RPGs (and I half-heartedly explain it to be due to needing to know of the location in such a great detail that it would take months to communicate (but a mind-link would make it possible in at most minutes IMO)).
Still, I can\'t, however, think of an IC reason for this to apply to portals. After all, they\'re linked somehow, and the only thing you require to use them is the knowledge of the target. This knowledge will IMO be some sort of signature, be it an abstract thing like a number or name, or be it some magical thing like the aura of the portal.
While the aura will be harder to give to someone else, it can\'t be too hard, because otherwise you\'d have a hard time remembering them all, in which case it would be more like different spells that you learn. This would then bring up the question of why you can\'t instantly learn a spell from it being used by someone else...
Of course, you\'ll say, a spell will be more complex than a portal aura, and I agree to that. How complex can the aura realisticly be, especially since it was created to be easily accessible in the first place?
The portal IMO provides the knowledge of the physical location by itself (therefore you don\'t need to have been there already as you\'d need for the teleport spell), and also doesn\'t require any macic of yours (portals are usable by a farmer as well as by a mage). Therefore, they must be able to be easily \"locked\" on the target portal so that they don\'t require a portal operator (which would enable me to \"scan\" for portals, even without the slightest clue of their location). It\'s just like telling you you need to physically visit your local radio station before you can tune your receiver to it. ;)
If there way some operator, why would they not be able to send you to any arbitrary portal they usually send other ppl. on a daily basis?
I just thought of another idea: you might need to authenticate to the portal before you are permitted to use it. We wouldn\'t want the evil guys to be able to sneak through our portals using their own.
However, this only looks like a solution: as with everything you authenticate to, the permission would need to be transferrable and sharable (i.e. the king gives you some document that authenticates you). There would be no benefit if anyone could just arbitrarily authenticate themselves, or if they had to circumvent authentication anyway... :] So we\'ll just have to guard the portals just like the city gates.
Originally posted by josephoenix
I agree that a 1-to-1 portal that you have to unlock to use would be senseless since there\'s the question of \"why the **** is the portal scroll always over there and never on this side of the portal?!\"
Or to draw on Robert Jordan\'s wheel of time series, it is possible that you could rig up not teleportation per se but instead a system like the Ways, and you could wander through them to find new \"Waygates\" without knowing where you\'re going.. but acquiring the knowledge from visiting the other end (perhaps the inscription on the gate) could give you the directions or \"translate\" portions of the mysterious script on each island that connects to a group of \"waygates\" in order to prevent you from wandering blindly
This system sounds really interesting, but still I don\'t see why you can\'t just in advance give someone the directions they would be able to decrypt on the other side.
These ancient scripts sound like some ancient portal-book to me, so why would nobody
a) translate them and / or
b) make a new book from their own explorations?
Both of these things are done for rather pointless (in terms of everyday life) things like poetry, so why would they not be done for something so immensely useful as portals / waygates?
This waygate system (if the direction-giving issues would be resolved) would, however, appeal to me much more than the conventional portal system, because it adds some mystery. It would enable really powerful mages (or groups of less powerful ones) to artificially create new ways, just like with portals, but you\'d also have the option to explore the system if you wish. It doesn\'t even have to be ancient for this, because it uses naturally existing phenomena.
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Originally posted by NATIK
I think that teleporting makes people jump over massiva amounts of gameplay too
Would they necessarily? We all agree that portal creation should not be a matter of snapping your fingers. we also agree that a portal can only be created if you are at the location it\'s supposed to be (or, as an extreme case, it might be carried there). So you can\'t remotely create a portal.
But wouldn\'t this itself suffice to ensure that portals aren\'t just about anywhere? Clearly it doesn\'t make sense to create a portal in your kitchen and in your backyard, and also not in some remote location where there is nothing but wilderness. It would, however, be sensible to create such a portal in a distant mine.
Indeed, portals would pop up at any major location, but, I repeat, is this actually such a bad thing? It can\'t be used for hunting (moving targets and also wilderness is required), it can\'t be used for fishing, it can\'t even be used for farming (because of it\'s cost). OK, we don\'t have tracks of merchants being guarded by mercenaries, but they wouldn\'t be eliminated completely, since not every location justifies a portal (like with train stations even today). Also, the really profitable routes tend to be used by lots of ppl. and therefore to become very safe anyway, so it\'s noit that much of a difference except time-wise.
Also, ppl. would not arbitrarily create portals in, for example, the ancient ruins of some castle, even if there are riches to be found, simply because they don\'t want others to reach it the easy way. There would be \"official\" portals, and there would be \"rogue\" portals.
It would be sensible to have a IC law that forbids the creation of portals in places that are unguarded, simply to prevent invasions or even annoyances by hostile animals. Also, you can ignore these laws and illegally create your portal, and risk punishment.
There will be portals that become forgotten over time as the importance of their location vanishes. They might be taken over by enemies, or the town might be destroyed, leaving the portal forgotten in the wilderness.
Maybe the portals could degrade over time if they are not maintained, maybe making them harder to lock to, and harder to use, and maybe even dangerous to use.
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Well, I have the feeling that directions would be fairly complicated so it would take a while to get to where you were going, but still be less than half the time it would usually take. That actually was what I was thinking was people exploring the ways and making their own charts and directions that they would sell as books. However these maps and charts should be limited to the \"unexplored\" offshoots and ones \"grown\" by mages. If a book with directions on how to get between two major cities I don\'t think that those should be allowed. Perhaps when a book with forbidden info is found they can cause it to deteriorate rapidly (I\'ve mentioned this before) which makes random words disappear or mold to grow in between the pages rendering it only patrially readable.
josePhoenix
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I sort of disagree Seytra. I think it would be a bigger deal, because if you could teleport, you get goods to places faster or you could make a process more efficient. This means that prices go down, and the worth of your product goes way down (wheter you teleport or not). It also means that your money is worth less than before and the economy is sent into a downward spiral to the pits of Deflation. Which is bad. I think if you create a system where you have to make a portal using an object (with a friend at the other end) and this spell costs alot of mana and glyphs (and there are certain risks) and if it was distance limited, then you can sleep at night knowing that Yliakums economy isnt doomed after all. I think that it may be exploitable to merchants, but its restrictions would require the entire merchantile society to ban together and link portals to each other (which is highly unlikely because of competition) and then even if they pulled it off, they\'d end up getting into battles and wars over resources and portals and portal rings. Oh wait, did I say that aloud? Oopsies?
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@ Kereshin: I don\'t think it will ruin the economy or result in deflation. You are right in saying that prices for goods will be lower, but only in the locations these are not being produced in. It makes the price be independant on distance, but there will still be a minimum price that you need to pay due to labour and material cost. It\'s not like you\'d get grain for free when you live next to the field it\'s planted on, nor do you get horses for free if you live next to a breeding station. Teleport would, however, make the price of, say, butter, at, say, a distant mining camp, equal the one in Hydlaa, which isn\'t detrimental for the economy. It simply makes the distance not affect the price because it\'s not relevant anymore and it\'s riskless.
@ josephoenix: why in the world would a book of directions between major cities be illegal?!?!? It\'d be the most common ways in use! If anything, it should be posted right next to any major portal!
And it should be a matter of IC laws and law enforcement if it, for some strange reason, is disallowed. It\'d be just stupid to have illegal things deteriate fast just because they\'re illegal! They don\'t IRL, so why would they in PS? Will stolen goods decay rapidly as well? You\'d crush all thieving by this! Maybe if you murder someone, your hand decays? Yay, a world in which crime is effectively self-punishing! Cool! :D
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Yes, but if there is no teleportation, prices will be much higher. If I were to kill some cattle, and chop them up into slabs of meat on the first level, and then took them all the way down to the sixth and sell them, I would get a much higher price for the meat, simply because its a pain in the wazoo to get there. You are correct in saying that it wont be dependant on distances, but not having teleportation creates unique business opportunities, and keeps items in certain area\'s distinct. At this point it doesnt matter, but its just my personal preference. I still however support my portal idea, and think its a great idea, especially if its a very mana consuming spell.
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If there is to be no teleportation then it would be good if there was a autorun feature which followed waypoints between towns so that walking between maps doesn\'t become so tedious. Also, I presume this means that there would be alot of varience in prices between towns so that it will be possible to make a living simply by transporting goods between towns based on supply and demand?
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Originally posted by chronokun Also, I presume this means that there would be alot of varience in prices between towns so that it will be possible to make a living simply by transporting goods between towns based on supply and demand?
Is that not a good thing? That is pretty much reflected in our everyday lives. All the we need to do is to have characters with heads for business. (But avoid making your character rich this way though it has close to zero business instinct!!??)
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exactly, it is a good thing, a role playing game should let you play the role of a trader afterall. This is why i think a teleportation system should not be created and instead the player should use other transport, however walking can be frustrating. is there plans to have rideable horses, dragons etc in planeshift which you can buy and ride about as you please?
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Yes, read the Story part on the main website - it offers a little bit of insight on travel, though certainly more is planned.
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Or, you can read the thread that is curretly under discussion in the General Discussion (go figure) area:
How big a PS world is too Big? (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=22562&boardid=13&styleid=3)
Dave summed it up quite nicely:
\"As the world gets bigger, we\'ll need to add more ways to get around. Wagons, flying stuffs, teleporting, etc. And, we should expand as we get more people, such that as things get crowded a new map is available. If the world gets too big, too fast, yes that\'s be a problem. However, I don\'t think it\'ll be an issue we\'ll have to worry about too much.\"
Edit: @ Karyuu, :P
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how about a form of teleportation which only goes between a few major towns with fixed teleporters, or instead of teleporters there could be paths between the towns which are shorter than they should be( like a kind of wormhole thing where although normally the other place is normally 10km away you only have to walk 1km if you go by this route)?
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Hello Shifters,
Here my 3 trias.
I think teleporting is a good and fast way of travel. You just have to know where to. Maybe if there is a glyph(bleu way) to use. The glyph have a limited range so you can only blink to where you can see. If you blink in the air you fall and die, also is you blink in a tree you fall and die. so you have to blink near the top of a hill, than blink to the next hill or to the road below. As it is Glyph magic as you put more mana in it you can blink further but run out of mana faster.
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Originally posted by chronokun
how about a form of teleportation which only goes between a few major towns with fixed teleporters, or instead of teleporters there could be paths between the towns which are shorter than they should be( like a kind of wormhole thing where although normally the other place is normally 10km away you only have to walk 1km if you go by this route)?
In my opinion, the \"wormhole thing\" does not really fit into the PlaneShift setting. ;)
However, there should be a kind of teleportation, at least between the bigger towns. It could be somewhat like the teleports in TES III: Morrowind, where you could go to the mage guilds and they teleported you to the mage guild in another town.
I know that there is no need for teleportation at the moment, but as the world of PlaneShift gets bigger, one should think about including a teleporting feature to quickly get from one place to another.
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teleportation is a good thing imho. I don\'t think the game will be ruined because of this. My thoughts about it is that you need to have visited the place before being able to teleport there. It\'s like this. Your character needs a word to use to get to that city. You will get the word at the teleporter in every city. It\'s a game mechanic and means you actually needs to hear it from an npc before it works, this will prevent all the elite\'s from giving words to newbs.
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Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but teleportation has been implemented, in rogue camp area, to some guildhouse. Despite whatever was being said earlier, a "shortcut" (maybe a synonym for teleport) is clearly seen here. A graphic proof:
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/3858/teleportwo6.jpg
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How do you know that is teleportation, and not simple illusion and mind clouding (Azure Way magic, by the way)?
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How do you know that is teleportation, and not simple illusion and mind clouding (Azure Way magic, by the way)?
Rakshak laughs.
Put an apple on the ground in Yliakum and click on it. Then see the name of the object in the "information" window. The name displayed will be "apple". Try this for any object, there will be a name shown. That is why I'm saying the screenshot I gave is a "shortcut to guildhouse". Don't ask me to prove if it actually is a guildhouse, otherwise I'll ask you to prove an apple an apple.
Rather than trying to argue with me, you should be investigating the truth in the matter. Go to the rogue camp and find out if it is a shortcut / teleport indeed, and share your findings with other testers/players.
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Not what I meant. What I meant is how do you know there is not a guildhouse sitting right there in front of you, but it is hidden by illusion? Or perhaps it is just entirely underground.
As for investigating the truth of the matter...
/me smiles and points at sig.
(http://www.freeiconsweb.com/Freeicons/Free_icons_256x256/Arrow%20Down.png)
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Sorry not able to understand correctly, but this is what I make out of your reply: "There is either a guild house hidden by magic, or one under the ground in rogue camp". Is that what you meant? In either case, a teleport has been implemented leading right to a guildhouse. Or is there something else? Can someone please explain to me?
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That 'guildhouse' works the same way as every other guildhouse, the Winch, and other areas accessed by that menu. Yes, your character is 'teleported' to another instance. However, it is an Out of character teleport, as it is assumed that your character simply opened the door and went though.
GMs have been able to teleport players for a long time now. They are using 'prison' spells now to send lawbreakers right to the jail.
I don't know if you are talking about the simple mechanics and code of teleporting, or if you mean actual spells or things characters use.
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I'm not talking of the IC or OOC nature of teleport, nor am I saying any spells of teleport have been/should be implemented. I am merely saying that I saw a chest (which I showed the picture in last few threads) which I think leads to a guildhouse. If it does, it's a violation of "no teleports" policy of PS. I merely want to know where that open chest leads.
And yes, I do not want any teleports, either to guild houses or to any other areas.
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I have not read all of the replies, but I fully support some form of teleportation system. I find it endlessly annoying and time consuming to run back and forth over the same terrain over and over and over... and over and over...
Make it fixed locations instead of spells... charge fees or impose weight limits... Only allow people to teleport to places they have visited... whatever... but PLEASE let the time to travel between major locations be reduced.
It would be nice also, since this is the wishlist... to, if you have a guild house, be able to return there with a simple incantation or item.
[EDIT] In the case of the guild houses, perhaps make it one of the permissions you can assign per rank? "/guild house" would return you to the guild house if are not in combat and had the appropriate permissions.
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I have not read all of the replies, but I fully support some form of teleportation system. I find it endlessly annoying and time consuming to run back and forth over the same terrain over and over and over... and over and over...
Make it fixed locations instead of spells... charge fees or impose weight limits... Only allow people to teleport to places they have visited... whatever... but PLEASE let the time to travel between major locations be reduced.
It would be nice also, since this is the wishlist... to, if you have a guild house, be able to return there with a simple incantation or item.
[EDIT] In the case of the guild houses, perhaps make it one of the permissions you can assign per rank? "/guild house" would return you to the guild house if are not in combat and had the appropriate permissions.
That sounds like how Guild Wars dose guild houses.
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Interesting, but it would be very hard to find an IC justification for a /guildhouse command. Unless teleport spells were implemented generally, but as has already been stated- they do not exist in Yliakum.
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im 1/2 way through this thread so far and just have to blat some thoughts down before i loose my track.
Currently there are limited spawning points , or where you end up after the death realm
when all 7 ? levels of yilakum are incorporated into the game
people will respawn all over the world.
im in understanding that the stone labirynths lead to another realm or the surface.
the winch when able to be used , can lower you from hydlaa to underground.
So bearing in mind that the friends you meet every now and again , when one of you dies you are probably not going to see them again for quite some time.
or when someone of the same race & religeon in your party dies and your 3 layers down . hmm i guess the party is smaller now guys.
Now holding these facts into consideration , please re-evaluate your oppinions.
Now to the portals/teleporting.
Im under the impression there is a university or mage hall , or something , a PLace of magical Study in Hydlaa.
Would it also not stand to reason that future towns will hold similar places of refuge for arcane learners and practisers.
So my suggestion is that each Magic Library/University , Mage guild , what ever they get called. Has a Portal system.
Now you can pay the portal keepers a fee to get transported to another mage guild , the more layers/towns away the other Mage place is the higher the cost.
This would limit the portaling , ensuring walking/riding/flying has to happen.
arguments about being able to get there means you are above the beasts on the way is irrelevant , the new elves that live on the 7th floor start down there , and krans and lemurs , will be very powerfull before they ever get down there.
there is also possibilites for out landers to get involved via the stone labrynths. The arcane order could get associated with those of yilikum and bind a new portal with the others.
reading in the manual like thing , there is referance to paying merchant rings a fee to get lowered down via a pulley system that (dwarves ? made ).
Scenario--=--
So im up in Hydlaa , im a new player.
my friend lives and dwells on the 3rd floor. say the nearest portals were on floor 2 or 4.
cheapest & fastest ride for my friend would be down hill via the winches. running to the mage center , paying the fee. getting teleported to the mage center in hydlaa , asking me my surroundings and comming and finding me.
i dont see flying being a serious option underground , and most horses are very timid with it comes to caves , but hey lizards may be very differntly inclined as someone mentioned they are a likely choice for a mount in this game.
I am against marker teleportation unless it's at least as strict as it was in morrow wind(elder scrolls 3)
You have 1 spell to mark a location , and 1 spell to teleport to that mark. ( you can only ever have 1 valid mark) - so generally you make your mark as your start point , work your way to your end point , then instantly travel back to your start point , generaly when your full weight and ready to off load and start the journey again.
i may say more after reading the 2nd 1/2 of this thread :)
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Perhaps i could have checked the dates LoL
this is most definatly a future plans idea.
but would be nice to have a structure in place to lay the foundation for it's use later on
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Organised teleportation is a settings killer.
If it exists, then wizards groups have it, governments have it, even other guilds may very well have it. And of course, the bad guys have it. So what's the point of ramparts, gates, the Winch, running messengers, etc etc?
There is already a Prison spell for the GMs that sets a risky example: it teleports to only one place, and that's the jail. As long as 1 spell transfers to only 1 place, things may stay under control. And by the way, if people start teleporting out of jail, what's the point?
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When I started playing there was 1 spawn point for all races now there are 7 what makes you think that number will remain static? The simple answer is to avoid dying, of course accidents happen and this is still only a 0.04 release.
The GM prison spell is actually a GM only command that can teleport anyone to anywhere, thats what we use to unstick people and move about the world ourselves.
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So in other words, the GM teleportation command, when used as a prison spell isn't actually an in-game happening, but a representation of a persons character being taken to jail?
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I believe that is the case with "jail" yes.
As to the IC or OOC or settings killing... how do you come to that conclusion? What is your basis for teleportation being impossible? The end result is that you are transported at high speed to a new location. This could be a navigation spell of some kind that simply whisks you away in a torrent of wind, or something similar. It doesn't have to be disappear from one location and mysteriously appear at another location. I support ANYTHING that will reduce the time it takes me to run back and forth from Akkaio to BD and back.
Look at human technical advances... tell someone in the 1700s that a person could go from the "new world" to the far east in mere hours... they would have said that is impossible. Now, in less than 25 hours, I can go from the middle of the USA to Japan (that includes multi-hour layovers at three different airports). I really don't see how this can be written off simply because of settings.
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What about mounts?
Walk up to a stable keeper and say 'I want to go to this place, here is the tria it costs to get there'
stable keeper 'ok, the ride will take 3 min.'
server sets a timer for 3 min.
after 3 min have past, you are teleported to where you wanted to go, that is if you havent moved during those 3 min.
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Mounts are mentioned on the main website in the history... references to fully trained pterosaurs and such...
[quote main website]
Travel
The Slow Way
Long stairs that wind along the walls or corridors dug deep into the rock connect every adjacent level. Most citizens walk from level to level, even though such a trip is very tiring, especially when going uphill with a load of goods. Because of this, wide landings were built where they can lay down their loads and rest.
The Merchandising Way
Because walking is so slow and cumbersome, an ingenious system of pulleys, wheels, and spider silk ropes was devised. These silk ropes attach to either people or goods and are then lifted up. The winches are privately owned, however, so generally they only belong to the mercantile society, and their use is allowed only after a fee is paid to the society, which varies according to the quality of the winch.
The Elite Way
The fastest way of getting over remarkable distances in a short time is using flying animals: Pterosaurs and Megaras.
[/quote]
Beyond just this explanation of travel, why is it, that with magic so prevalent in Y'liakum (or is this simply because players like magic) that nobody has figured out how to move people/things by magic? Why would this be so bad?
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Probably because teleportation would be more complicated then that. Think about it. It's not just sending something at somewhere in phenomenal speed then stopping in gently enough so as to not have inertia tear it to shreds within the millisecond you start. You also need to have him somehow avoid each and every obstacle. The simple explanation in most games is that teleportation is a tear in reality. For some reason i think that might not work in PS that easily.
But if we are talking about telekinesis then there i agree it should be ingame as it is the manipulation of air to gather and pressure and object from certain sides thus meaning it should be a decent level Azure way spell.
Also.
after 3 min have past, you are teleported to where you wanted to go, that is if you havent moved during those 3 min.
Ummm... Why not shoot a little higher. The server puts you on an actual mount with a stable worker on it to make sure you don't steal the mount. Then this little parade thingy actually moves to the location you asked them to take you too. This would let the bad guys have some fun if anyone crosses their territory(free PvP). And would be a lot more IC then a magical journey.
Alright... I think that's it. Have a good one.
Peace
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Beyond just this explanation of travel, why is it, that with magic so prevalent in Y'liakum (or is this simply because players like magic) that nobody has figured out how to move people/things by magic? Why would this be so bad?
Apanage of the gods.
If Yliakum people can teleport, they are not prisoners of a stalactite anymore.
For now, if you really want to teleport, you can use /unstick. :)
Seriously, nobody says teleportation is bad, I believe. It's just that some ways of implementing it would be bad; mostly for the setting. And hard to implement (how do you select a destination?)
Two non-disruptive ways seen so far are:
- short distance, line of sight blink
- spells linked to 1 given destination
Tontow's mounts explanation is a very good compromise prior to mounts implementation. Yet, if set, players will instantly complain that there's no depiction of the trip. And others that 3 minutes is not teleportation, too slooooow, etc. Still, a nice temporary feature imo.
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If someone complains about 3 minutes to travel from Akkaio to BD Fortress... I'll smack them myself. But again, teleportation, mounts, whatever... I support anything that cuts down on travel time.
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I support anything that cuts down on travel time.
Potions of superspeed.
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Actually that one i would be disappointed if they didn't put in. How else will i be able to RP a hyperactive dwarf in the later versions ?
Frankly i think the best way to make teleportation happen is to make it be from set places to set places. And those set places are 99% withing the confines of mage "Guilds". Not the player run ones of course. Thus we can charge it to hell for travel and make this super overpowered method of travel available only to the filthy rich.
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Teleporting is nearly a must have in games of this size of world
I agree
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Maybe if there is a glyph(bleu way) to use. The glyph have a limited range so you can only blink to where you can see. If you blink in the air you fall and die, also is you blink in a tree you fall and die. so you have to blink near the top of a hill, than blink to the next hill or to the road below. As it is Glyph magic as you put more mana in it you can blink further but run out of mana faster.
I like the blink glyph idea. Only I would not like it to be so dangerous. Clumsy me would probably die all time. Allso an aber is that it would make it difficult to make the roads difficult and dangerous for travelers. If you simply could bling yourself over any dangers it would not be much fun. But as there currently are no dangers for travelers, I am all for the idea as it would make traveling faster and more fun.
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Allso I think teleportation is a must for a game of this size. I think there should only be possible to teleport yoursef, and only to places you have been to. Then it will not spoil the fun of discover new places by foot.
About the trade-argument I think serious traders in future game-updates should be able get theirself a wagon and an animal for carrying big loads of goods. Then it still would be possible making profit on market distances. Simply put a few items in your pockets and teleport would make you some trias, but loading up a large wagon, pulled by a strong/fast animal(s), would be far more profitable.
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Blink is already taken by Warcraft, is it not? Might want to think of a new name. Like... Squadelah!
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Blin and teleport are well known in muds as in teleport in a direction such as north or random blinking which is kind of useless. In a mud this does not work to well as you can get lost very easily.
Generally this works well in a graphical game and have seen it in another game that I originally thought was useless till I used it. The useless part was that the click distance was very short for such In game I checked the click distance and it is very far so this would be a very usefull spell as in casting teleport and clicking far in front of you. As for cast speed it may be a long spell to cast but generally with low stamina it would greatly help weaker class builds in moving around. Right now my class mage sucks at getting around the world maps.
Also it may be possible to utilize a portal like spell that is more of a magic enhancement that a game feature such as using a magic map to access the new portal system sort if say scribing a magic scroll like map from an atlas that allows you to use a portal that is neer by. Thinking of this more as a tradeskill type thing for higher level mages that can sell to newer players etc.
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The far distance teleportation system, instead of using a map, would be closer to the existing game mechanics by using a generic spell, combined with tokens that the caster equips in his hand or in the Mind slot; each token connects to a given, fixed spot.
That way, extending the map can lead to the easy addition of a new token in game.
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I like the spell/token combination idea. The only thing, to pacify some... um... people.. would be to implement the tokens in such a way that you cannot give them away or sell them. So the character would have to have visited, on foot, to the places they wanted to teleport to. Maybe acquire the tokens by doing a quest for the local mage? Or... um... the local thief that happened to acquire them from the local mage... or...
But seriously, is this truly a "settings killer" or is this just something that the devs are not entertaining at this point in development?
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Free teleportation is a setting killer. Fixed spots and "limited" magic are not, as it stays under control of the devs (and of the government/guilds/etc).
Now it would be hard to stop people from selling/buying/borrowing tokens. I'll keep thinking on that one. I don't even know if personalised objects are makable in the current system (although there is that signature thing on the crafted weapons).
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I can understand that explanation of what part of things would be against settings. I believe I started out suggesting the ornate circles that are etched into the ground at the Winch and BD Fortress could be fixed spots you could go to/from. If I could use a spell and a token to teleport to a dev-controlled fixed spot, I would be incredibly happy with that.
Is there a way to personalize an quest item like a crafted item? Can you check the crafted tag when the attempt is made to put the token in the mind slot? Sorry if your ponderings were not meant to get an answer, but I am a programmer by trade (just bound by contracts so I can't contribute code directly to PS... but I do hit the bug tracker often). Just some thoughts on an implementation. If you cannot personalize a quest item... can you require a generic token and a special "stock caster" kind of device that you would be allowed to use after completing a quest? Kinda like winch access... only be able to enter a room that contained the device after you complete the quest?
Ok... I'll try to sit back and wait patiently... please let me know if I can be of any help here... either in testing SVN or bouncing more ideas around.
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Bouncing ideas around is always good.
I haven't inspected the source code either, and am not planning to do so since I already spend many hours every day doing something similar (PS shall stay a hobby). However, I don't think the technical issues that have to be considered first; rather, what chances do you think your wish has to be heard? I understand you're concerned mostly with the BG trip, which I agree is a pain, and even a torture since the dark sticky wilderness thingy appeared. Yet, I believe that the long run (apart from the bugs) is exactly as expected for the current game balance.
I don't think that the BG frustration is actually due to the distance. It's rather the fact that... there's nothing to do there. A couple of chats with NPCs and bye. And then, there's a big empty map to cross. Well, there are a few mines, but they are empty. Maybe you'd forget about teleportation if the area becomes more lively.
Then, there is the redundancy issue. Setting up a teleportation network while there are plans for flying mounts, would it make sense? The ornate circles you mention are landing platforms for the flying beasts, I believe. These mounts would have a higher priority in the dev plans, as they are already mentioned and integrated in the setting (we just don't see them).
Then, you 'd still have to explain how the request wouldn't conflict with the economy as it is. The winch, the caravans, the flying beasts. Teleportation does exist, and it's now common knowledge that some staves allow it. But there must be a reason why it's not used in the economy. I'd bet that fact still has to be worked on, as the staves as a quick explanation for needed tools, and not from a pure setting perspective.
Finally, the issue of limiting teleportation to very few individuals. A high enough realm for the spell, and personalised tokens, is that enough? I would put heavy limitations on their use, if my word was worth something in the matter. Possibly dangers. Even carrying very little, if one can go back and forth at will between distant places, the consequences are drastic.
So I do think ideas are still needed before making a formal request. I used to use the bugtracker as well, but since I joined the forums, I prefer to submit ideas here first. They have time to mature. Some limitations I would suggest on the teleport would be:
- carrying capacity: either make the spell fail when too heavy (over 50%? 25%?), or use mana per kilo.
- discomfort, dizziness: temporarily reduce some stat after a jump, cumulatively. That way, the penalty is bearable when the spell is not "abused".
- danger: when 2 persons appear on the same spot at the same time (a very rare occurrence), they get killed.
- target error: make a test on stat/skill when the spell is cast. On failure, shift more or less the destination point. That could be fun near a cliff (like BG or the ring's edge). Well, that's not such a good idea; but too late, I wrote it already, eh eh.
- depletion: give the tokens a limited number of uses. Their quality lowers each time, until they become a pile of dust. That way, one has to carefully consider each time if he will teleport or use another mode of transport.
- cost: make the tokens really expensive; in resources, not only in tria; enough so that nobody can disrupt the economy with his magic.
Applying some of the above, I think, provides enough to keep things under control.
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But seriously, is this truly a "settings killer" [...]?
Free teleportation is a setting killer.
Imagine that characters can fly:
- how does the game deal with map boundaries? That's the biggest technical issue, since many virtual worlds are just floating blocks of polygons.
- No more inaccessible deep canyons, mountain tops, roofs and so on. No more access pass to the Winch, for example. So yes, it's a setting issue, as it easily breaks the current cycle of dangers, quests, the balance of difficulties, etc. Yes, it's doable, but it requires all the setting to be adapted to one game mechanic; a huge burden. Just think of how easy it would be to exit the DR today, if you could fly....
Now, teleportation. Same issues as above, plus you also ignore walls, closed doors, etc. Rich people don't sleep anymore, guild houses become open to public, and you can't even enjoy a minute of privacy in your bathroom because a friend of yours could pop up at any time to visit you. :)
Then the economy is transformed completely, since the most important factor of trade is distance and transport. I believe you said you're from the USA? Compare it (in proportions) to what happened to your country (and others) with the development of railway; to the use of certain sails, that allowed to cross the Atlantic ocean since the Renaissance; to the impact of aviation, of internet. Teleportation is the epitome of transport; with it, we wouldn't be discussing on the forum, but face to face sipping a cocktail near the Great Pyramid.
Then you change as well the urbanism, the army, the laws, the human behavior, the entire society, up to the notion of privacy for example.
Unless you choose to handle it the immature way superheroes comics do, keeping a nonsensical status quo, you either adapt the setting (huge work), or you put very serious restrictions on it, so that PlaneShift stays PlaneShift.
A table RPG can handle teleportation rather easily: the number of people using it is restricted at will by the GM, and then magic excuses are used to install some artificial scenario balance (anti-teleport, anti-anti-teleport, and so on). It's like a teleportation Cold War, but with no real impact since the game is centered on a few characters and the rest of the world is pretty much just a decorum.
In an online game, however, what is accessible to one should be accessible to all. We can already see that what is supposed to be extraordinary is common, and the supposed norm is rare. You can call it balance, but what we perceive of it is a transformed world. Already, nobody walks; given the opportunity, nobody will run either.
Again, serious restrictions needed.
As you can see, I do not use setting and balance to conclude that it's impossible, but as a starting point to tinker with what could be done. Besides, I only considered some obvious dangers; there are always sneaky ones.
Just for fun, what life would you live if you could teleport, for real? That of a tourist, thief, assassin, merchant, smuggler, reporter, other? Same question with "only you" then "you, like everybody else".
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Blink is already taken by Warcraft, is it not? Might want to think of a new name. Like... Squadelah!
Note: Original Dungeons & Dragons releases in the 1980s (and probably in the earlier Blackmoor books) had "Blink Dogs" that teleported as part of hunting-pack behavior.
WoW has ripped-off every concept in game from some previous game. MoM has this in abundance as well. In games like these, every idea you have and can have has been thought of, spec'd out, or implemented somewhere else. Its not a big deal unless it is a specific copyright or trademark infringement.
Thinking of all of that makes me all misty-eyed for the days when we played Empire of the Petal Throne tabletop ... that was a serious RP game. Going off topic, sorry, but EotPT was awesome.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_Of_The_Petal_Throne
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i really like the portal system with (lets call it teleport sickness) afterward as well as the portals are not easily seen and have to be hunted for and people have to build your own phone book at the same time that way only the people that work hard and explore get the privladges and those that are lazy don't.