PlaneShift

Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Josellis on June 25, 2006, 02:28:56 pm

Title: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: Josellis on June 25, 2006, 02:28:56 pm
I just was with a discussion with a moderators (not in tell) and when he went away, he said that I should NOT say ANY OOC text in the normal channel. I can only say it when I am say something to a GM in tell (so I even need to be IC there!). I heard that it make a better role-playing experience ... but still PlaneShift is a GAME!!! not a real world!!! no wonder that kids sometimes get confused about where or who they are!



If it really gets too bad that OOC thing, I think I would leave PlaneShift just because I wasn't allowed to speak about me (as the real person, what we ARE).


I also asked to that GM some simple question (like "can you be killed by creatures") just because I am curious, and he continued answering "focus on your life in Yliakum", "how does it affect your life here", etc. like if I only existed in the game!!! and even if I only existed in the game, why can't he answer as simple questions? It would actually take less time to type "yes" or "no" then typing "Focus on your life in Yliakum".


What I am asking is to be allowed to speak OOC, in any channel, and as much as we want, as long as the text is between [].



I hope that this will be soon fixed, cause it is ruining the gameplay (GAMEplay not LIFEplay) of some people such as me.
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: Suno_Regin on June 25, 2006, 02:42:29 pm
Well, I do see how annoyed you are, I had a major problem with Zayek a long time ago. GM's can be one-track minded sometimes, like a broken record. I just don't bother asking them questions, if you want to know something you should ask in the help channel.

What they're trying to do is remove OOC from the game completely. I don't see how that'll be possible, but it could be done with the community's support. An OOC channel has already been suggested, but it isn't going to happen from what I've been told.
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: neko kyouran on June 25, 2006, 02:45:58 pm
You have the wrong game then.  This is heavily based on RP.  Ideally, you should be in character at all times.  Not to say people actually accomplish this.  Many times it is much easier to  say a simple ooc comment in brakets to clarify your characters actions, and some times it is neccessary this be done.  But in the end, the idea is that you are RPing your character whenever you are in game.  If you don't want to RP, perhaps you should look for another game to play.

As with talkig with GMs, GMs exist outside the plain of your character, they are pure OOC.  If you are talking to one, then you are completly OOC as they don't actually exsist to your character.  I call them figments of my characters imagination when ever my character comes accross one or talks to one.  And as such, all GMs are called Bob by my character, since they exist in her mind only and as such she named them all Bob becuase she can.  She even forced-married one, but sadly he isn't around anymore.  She was so looking forward to her honeymoon in the NPC room too.  Ah well, that happens when imaginative beings are involved.

Anyawy, if you would like to discuss OOC things with someone, please don't use the main chat tab.  Take it to a group or tells or guild even.  This way you don't break the mood of RP for others.

Hope this clarifies things.
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: Baldur on June 25, 2006, 02:56:42 pm
I think he meant your character, in Yliakum we're all playing a character, that's why it's a game. We're not reacting in real life and that's what this game is here for, if you want to take it OOC you can either speak in /tell or use brackets[] to make other players aware of you're talking about irl business.
This game is not really for idle chatter, it's more of another would where you live another life, not follow up today's activities irl, that can be easily taken care of on MSN or Yahoo in windowed mode.
Remember that this is a game about roleplaying and therefore it's not highly valued to talk about unaccounted things like "omg! Some crazy stats this blade's got" or "Today I was out shopping with my gf Suzy", that's not game-related.

Stick to the rules or leave with a smirk on your face.

Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: Hadfael on June 25, 2006, 04:13:53 pm
Let me clarify once again:

Planeshift is a RPG. It means Role Playing Game.
So, ok it is a game...but role playing one. so to play the game means to play your role.
ok, we are all players. But playing a role playing game is playing your role in the game.

It is free. but free as in "no charge", "no cost", "no money", $0...it does not mean total freedom to do whatever you want.
what are the devs asking in return for their work? respect of the efforts they made to create a rich world and a roleplaying environment.
This is summarized in the players policy: http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=21538.0
The important part about roleplaying ingame is in bold font to be easier to read:
Quote
OOC should be used only in /tell with a GM, in the help channel or in petitions. All other communications have to be IC

Then what about the brackets [] ?
As the policy states, your char does not know about the game nor game mechanics that are OOC. For those you are asked to use [] so it's not said by your character but by you, as a player.
All other real life considerations are not only OOC but out of topic.

Use [] when you need to  clarify something about the game and the ingame actions of your character.
Quote from: Josellis on June 25, 2006, 02:28:56 pm
If it really gets too bad that OOC thing, I think I would leave PlaneShift just because I wasn't allowed to speak about me (as the real person, what we ARE).
...
What I am asking is to be allowed to speak OOC, in any channel, and as much as we want, as long as the text is between [].
you can talk as the player you are when you are not your character. IRC, this forums, fan sites, ... are OOC places. talking about real life is not role playing.
If you do not want to respect the devs work, their desires and the policy, this is your choice. But you can at least respect the other players who are connected to a roleplaying game to play the role of their chars.

To make it short talking OOC is allowed when done with [] but talking Off Topic is only chatting, not playing a RPG.
All that is OT is OOC but not all that is OOC has to be OT. Keep your [] to explain clicks, lags, AFK, ...
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: Zan on June 25, 2006, 04:46:05 pm
You will find quite a few 'elite' roleplayers in this game who will smack your fingers with a ruler every time you talk OOC. Personally I understand your frustration and you are right that such behavior scares off most new players. It's their intention usually but some of them don't realize they can also scare of people with a great potential for roleplaying. Not everyone is like this though.

I myself enjoy roleplaying quite a lot but I won't be jumping on everyone who makes an OOC comment. Though I have to admit that it can be annoying to have someone run up to you when you're in the middle of a very exciting roleplay and ask you how to solve a quest or something similar. Most of the time I end up ignoring them and concentrating on my roleplay.

When I'm not really doing anything I don't mind helping people out and telling people about the brackets system used, etc. A lot won't care or won't even understand but sometimes people really do try to roleplay and use brackets whenever they talk OOCly.

The problem with the GM's is that you're most likely player n° 246.254.545 who asked that very same question (ok I exaggerated a wee bit maybe :P) and of course the GM's are only human too so by then they're so irritated by new players asking them questions that they forget to be friendly and just give short, blunt answers. Not many people are able to deal with the hordes of newbies and their neverending assault of questions that can be answerred by researching a little bit yourself.
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: Under the moon on June 25, 2006, 05:37:58 pm
I agree that -your character- should never go out of character. But to say that you can only talk to others in character is completely ridiculous. On occasion, it is necessary to [[ooc]] with more than one person for multiple reasons. One is exploring a bug. Another is clarifying something your character is doing. [[ooc]] is used quite a bit for saying you have to leave, and when you may be back, followed by the [[ooc]] farewells and goodwishing. This is ooc, but in a good way. It helps to bind the PLAYERS behind the characters together in a positive way. It lets you feel that there is someone behind all those identical faces, which there are.

We are real people playing imaginary characters. And though I try to make those characters as real and believable as possible, they will never be real. To try to force folks into [[ic]] all the time is not only impossible in this situation, it is damaging to the feel of the game.

Often I use [ooc]] to catch up players who come into an RP in the middle and wish to join in. I tell them what their characters may know or see happening, and what the RP is aimed at. Then others players in the RP can do [[ooc]] of their own to further clarify the situation. This is out of politeness, as sometimes it takes quite some effort to get into and understand what is going on in an RP. It also tells newcomers that they are welcome to join in, but gives them a few guidelines as to the mood and focus of the RP. This is positive for both seasoned players -and- 'newbies'. There have been many times I have seen a new player come up to a good RP and just stand there watching for a long time, before running off. The ones I have [[ooc-ed]], either in chat or tell have expressed their feelings that they may not have been welcome, or feared that they may have ruined the RP.

Another place I use [[ooc]] is narration. This is to tell folks something they may notice about my character, or something he/she is RPing such as a light in the sky, or a note on the wall. Now this seems to be a hot spot among some players. There are those who like to use their imaginations to enrich the game...then there are those under the impression "If I can't see it ingame, or work under game mechanics, then it does not exist." In my opinion, -that- is [[ooc]]. For there are many things ingame that our characters know, have, or see that we, as players, can not. If we are to roleplay that they are alive, and have lives, we have to go beyond what -we- can see. Otherwise, all I see right now is hundreds of clones running about looking for the strongest weapons they can find.

So, though I am totally against using chat to talk about your day, events in RL, "how do i do this quest", or your l33t new sword, I see [[ooc]] as a useful tool for RP.

Now, /tell is a completely different story all together. Much of the time, I use it for talking to other players I know, or advising new players on good RPing. In fact, the only time I use /tell for RP is if I am standing close enough that someone could hear my character whisper, or if I pass them a note. Using /tell for anything other than those things would be [ooc].
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: Robinmagus on June 25, 2006, 05:46:28 pm
Quote
Ideally, you should be in character at all times.

Ideally, we should all get along and love eachother, solve world hunger, and not be greedy.
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: Peacer on June 25, 2006, 07:19:57 pm
if he used the brackets i don't see any problem, he is new and asking about the game, if it was annoying they could have created a group
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: zorbels on June 25, 2006, 07:34:21 pm
Quote from: Under the moon on June 25, 2006, 05:37:58 pm
I agree that -your character- should never go out of character. But to say that you can only talk to others in character is completely ridiculous.

I second that .... actually I second the whole post Under The Moon did.

The one issue I have is that sometimes my fingers are busy typing to people I am already in /group chat with, and I have /tell's pouring in from newbies asking me for help, or friends who I am not in group with sending me greetings. So sometimes it is just easier for me to [<Text>] in public chat. I don't see an issue with that as long as I am not flooding or disrupting roleplays. I usually look around to see if that might be the case before I hit that enter key. I am not saying it is ok to do all of the time, but there has to be some give and take. It is way less work to just accept it than to make an issue out of it.

On the other hand if there is a group of people having OOC chat in the public chat and could just group to avoid flooding the public channel with OOC .... then for god's sake DO IT! Your OOC chat may be disrupting people roleplaying near by, and if you want those rolepalyers to turn their heads when you make OOC text in the public channel, then have the same respect for them. If it doesn't need to be there and there is a better way to do it, then do so.
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: Delsabor Nash on June 25, 2006, 07:38:54 pm
OOC should be put into ( - ) but, preferably not in the open chat channel at all, because the game is just constantly IC, and its just mainly part of the gameplay. Like think, If you were rping, and someone was talkign abotu football next to you? Its just really disruptive. Tells are totally fine for ooc in my opinion.
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: Hadfael on June 25, 2006, 08:10:46 pm
@Under the moon:
Glad to see that you fully agree with me. [] are useful when not used OT. That's why the policy allows to use them in the exemples you gave. bugs, game implementaion, narration, ... are part of RPing and not said by the char. /me and /my are not always enough.

@Robinmagus
idealy virtuality is not reality

@everyone
Idealy there should be no need for GMs to remind you this rules. Players (playing ones) are often forced to ask OOC chatters to respect their RPing. Since this request has to made with brackets, and is on topics. They have the right to ask you. And don't be surprised when you ignored them to have a GM to /tell you a reminder.
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: Shadow Hea on June 25, 2006, 09:02:20 pm
Yeah i can understand it being hard to be IC. But hey thats what planeshift is all about.

One thing i fear is when planeshift is knowen by more people. Then it will start getting flood by people not talking IC and thinking that RP is nerdish and start with the noob calling... Oh i hope that day never comes...
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: DaveG on June 25, 2006, 11:55:27 pm
Simply put, PS is a game where we want everyone to stay in character.  That doesn't mean you can't use OOC chat.  For the most part, we're only applying this to public.  Don't go around using parens in /tells... that's just stupid.  Same with most guild, and some group chat.  Also, the help chanel is purely OOC.

Some people also tend to take it a bit far... you know who you are.  Frankly, if it's a purely OOC discusion about the game itself, and you're not in an annoying area (somewhere in the plaza is usually best), just drop the parens and move on with your life.  If it's an OOC discussion that others may not need to be involved in, take it elsewhere or to group chat.  The parens really do nothing, except for appease the people who think they do.  Use them for individual lines you might need to stick in, but if it's a distraction don't make it public at all.

The main rule is: avoid annoying chatter.  Play the game, and don't talk about random other stuff.  It get's annoying... fast.
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: Josellis on June 26, 2006, 03:27:44 am
In the game, I don't think I said ANYTHING that wasn't related to the game in the main chat (wait, once someone asked where "the player of Timanel" lives, that's all ...). I did say other things not related to the game in tells, but now I see that it is allowed (and that wasn't what I understood from the GM)

What I understood from the GM is that they shouldn't be ANY[/u] OOC chat AT ALL[/u] in ANY[/u] channel whatsoever.

I'm not against speaking IC when playing (I even find it quite good) but I don't see why you CAN NOT talk AT ALL out of character. anyway, now I see that you can talk OOC only if it is game related (in the main chat of course) and that I totally agree with that, so please, stop those players/GMs which says that you shouldn't say anything in OOC whenever they see [].
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: Karyuu on June 26, 2006, 03:30:39 am
We've had a long and grueling GM meeting with a lot of time addressed to this :) OOC chat is allowed as long as it doesn't disturb roleplay (remember that roleplay has the priority). But generally even if there is no RP going on, long OOC conversations are best had in /group or similar private channels.

Hopefully we will no longer have misunderstandings about this, and everyone is on the same page.
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: Verrliit on June 26, 2006, 03:35:00 am
Both sides of this issue boil down to one thought.

Be courteous, and respectful of others.



The Dark Lady proposes a page for the GM Handbook, and the Player's Manual...



Usually other players will explain it to them, and if they do not respond, will call a GM.

GMs should first refer that player to a place where they can read the rules, and the reasons for them.

Otherwise, all they will know is that they have been attacked by other players, and then a GM, for doing what they have always done everywhere they have ever been.




To enforce chat rules in this situation, is overkill.




Usually most of the channels are in use at the same time. 

() parenthesis or [] brackets are used by those who are polite, to mark the OOC chat. 

It does work, and the reflex to separate IC and OOC with them, rapidly becomes automatic.

Again, unless those who are RPing complain about being flooded with OOC chat, enforcement is probably overkill. [/list]


Bottom line, unless something a player is doing, is disrupting play for other players, and there have been no complaints about them, it is pretty hard to justify interfering with them.

If a group of players cannot handle a disruptive player with social pressures alone, then you may be certain that they will call a GM.

Unless they do, GMs should stay out of it.


[End of proposed page.]
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: Karyuu on June 26, 2006, 03:41:34 am
Thanks Verrliit, I'm collecting bits and pieces of advice and proposals like these for when I get the chance to reorganize our guides - any input is appreciated.

Generally, Player Guides are also GM Guides with a few minor differences :)
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: Verrliit on June 26, 2006, 04:56:57 am
Quote from: Karyuu on June 26, 2006, 03:41:34 am
Thanks Verrliit, I'm collecting bits and pieces of advice and proposals like these for when I get the chance to reorganize our guides - any input is appreciated.

It is good to be appreciated.

If you want more extensive help with the next editions, just ask.

And big hugs to you, as well.

May all blessings be.


(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a96/Verrliit/VerrliitSigned.png)(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a96/Verrliit/400501cb.gif)
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: Osmo on June 26, 2006, 08:49:21 am
If you wanted a PURE RPG, then why have the MMO part?

IE; the grinding, the training, leveling etc.

Simple RPing can be accomplished in a chat room and considering our characters are "chatting" their actions, then the rest isn't needed anyway.

The efforts to make PS a pure RPing game are going to continue to be a struggle for the rest of the games history.  And being nazis (sorry couldn't think of another word to use) about it will just make people want to quit.  I have a guild with over 40 members with four regulars, that puts things into perspective.  And I am not the only one with the same issue.  Also, If you are not in the "clique" of the major RPers, you will most likely be ignored anyway.

Yea yea, pre  :beta:

I get it.

I am going to try and run a DnD style event in a few weeks.  And what I mean by that is, it is all RP, but the skills we can't do will be decided by rolling a d20.  I am going to play test the idea with the templars in about two weeks.  We will see how that goes.

Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: DaveG on June 26, 2006, 09:34:06 am
Karyuu has quoted me enough times, so I might as well quote her for a change.  ;)

Quote from: Karyuu on January 31, 2006, 08:27:44 pm
Moreover, there are a lot of people who for some strange reason think that roleplaying means standing in one spot and being all "bardic." This is nonsense. Roleplay is doing anything in-game as your character, instead of the player sitting at the computer. You can train at the Arena for hours and be in-character. The only thing that matters, is that you interact as much as possible with the characters of other people, instead of the players.

The people who "play" by standing in a circle and talking for 10 hours are usually the ones that complain the most about missing parens for OOC chat, usually because the chat portion of the game is all they really ever see.  Just play the game and have fun.  Don't overanalyze things.
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: Peacer on June 26, 2006, 03:47:48 pm
here's my experience with OOC chat in [] () or {}'s i tend to ignore it if it isn't adressed to me, interests me or involves me. It took some time to get that skill, bt i think myself i've become good at it. And there are sometimes wn groupchat, guildchat etc. etc. can turn IC, if you lower your voice in a room you talk IC in the groupchat, the persons in the other room can't here you then and they shouldn't be able to unless they eve'sdrop against the wall with their ears (invite to group.) The chat will make them able to see what you write (or hear what you speak ;)) which they shouldn't be able to.
Tells can be IC too. If you write a letter and give it to a person you give a tell typing what the paper says. Or a whisper if you clarify it in the chatchannel or messages with your mind (telepatic...) if you are a mage. I haven't done this with my warrior alt as she is not able to.
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: Josellis on June 29, 2006, 02:01:25 am
I see that you insist quite a bit on having it realistic. I can understand that on Earth, no one is telepathic (yet at least ... :D ), but tell me when did the people on Earth cast spells? I think it is pretty close to never (some people before beleived in "magic" which was more like science now). Also, how many creatures on earth are as inteligent as humans? Well, none. Only the human are that inteligent.

In Yliakum, there are several races, spells so why can't the people talk telepathically?
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: Tarel on June 29, 2006, 03:09:52 am
All Gm's agreed on the following rule about OOC-chat in the recent meeting we had.

Quote
people can have short OOC conversations if no roleplay is going on around them. For longer OOC chat, OT chat, or OOC chat when others are trying to roleplay, /group or similar private channels must be used.
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: tssthorn on June 29, 2006, 04:03:08 am
I want to discuss somthing. What if I siad I was from the future in the game? Its RPing and it allows me to go ooc even though im not. Or I could say I lived another life in the past. No matter what if somone says its ooc there is always away around it to make it IC and make them OOC instead. I mean if you really think about it talking OOC is not OOC till somone actaully says it is. Somone is passing by and they hear a conversation:
Bradd: Send it to my email
This could go three ways. The person passing could ignore it and make it IC, as if he didn't understand what that person was talking about since he wouldn't. He could go up to the person and ask whats an email?
Bradd: Mind your own bussiness
Still IC
Or the person can say [Oh thats OOC should be in brackets] - You see it only turns into OOC once its mentioned. So in my oppinion, its not the people who go OOC that ruins RP its the people correcting it all the time and bringing OOC up.
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: Farren Kutter on June 29, 2006, 04:05:56 am
somehow, that makes a lot of sense...
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: Easton on June 29, 2006, 04:10:12 am
Farren, don't push him..

i feel there is a line in RP. one side is respectable, and the other is not. mentioning email in game and trying to say its RP is not respectable to me. but thats just my humble opinion and i know that thats all it is. but i have a very odd feeling that not many people at all are going to agree with you on this one.

Think about it..

If someone mentinoed Email, or computers in a medeival setting, they'd be killed most likely. At least shunned from society..  to me, thats bad rp, and if i hear someone mention email in the middle of my rp, id feel slightly deflated to say the least..
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: LARAGORN on June 29, 2006, 04:13:23 am
thats kinda like saying if you drop food on the floor, and pick it up in 5 seconds, its not dirty "the 5 second rule"
I'm sure we have all done it once but it doesnt make it right.
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: Karyuu on June 29, 2006, 04:15:31 am
Quote from: Josellis on June 29, 2006, 02:01:25 am
I see that you insist quite a bit on having it realistic. I can understand that on Earth, no one is telepathic (yet at least ... :D ), but tell me when did the people on Earth cast spells? I think it is pretty close to never (some people before beleived in "magic" which was more like science now). Also, how many creatures on earth are as inteligent as humans? Well, none. Only the human are that inteligent.

In Yliakum, there are several races, spells so why can't the people talk telepathically?

Because telepathy is not in the setting, and players should respect the setting as the developers built it.

Concerning RPing from the future, take a look at the Player Policy for an example:

Quote
Read the Setting for official information about the world your character belongs to – and while your character can certainly come from another “plane” outside of it, don’t do something outrageous like try to bring in “RP” guns. Keep with the medieval fantasy atmosphere as much as you can.

There is a certain direction RP in PlaneShift is meant to go in (medieval fantasy) and this type of RP takes priority. If anyone is doing something outrageous and disturbing people who are using the game as it is meant to be used, they will be kindly prodded into the right direction until they understand.
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: Farren Kutter on June 29, 2006, 04:17:05 am
prodded with a pointy stick likely ;)
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: tssthorn on June 29, 2006, 04:17:28 am
Quote from: Easton on June 29, 2006, 04:10:12 am
Farren, don't push him..

i feel there is a line in RP. one side is respectable, and the other is not. mentioning email in game and trying to say its RP is not respectable to me. but thats just my humble opinion and i know that thats all it is. but i have a very odd feeling that not many people at all are going to agree with you on this one.

Think about it..

If someone mentinoed Email, or computers in a medeival setting, they'd be killed most likely. At least shunned from society.. to me, thats bad rp, and if i hear someone mention email in the middle of my rp, id feel slightly deflated to say the least..

Actaully if email was mention in a medevil time, chances are they would ignore it or they would do as you said, but who is to say we are that type of medevil time, that time was on earth and not in PS so that is OOC right there.
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: Easton on June 29, 2006, 04:25:45 am
Well, you tell me where in the setting it mentions email or anything even remotely remotely remotely related, and ill be sure to completely change my mind. ;)
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: tssthorn on June 29, 2006, 04:30:13 am
There is no where in the setting about email, but where on earth did the setting of aliens and ufos come up? Its the same crap, weird things are said and weird thing happen. Also who says you wont one day pass somone talking about somthing your not sure of what it is. Actaully iy happends all the time. I pass people talking about science stuff and have no idea what there talking about. Also no matter what its fact that it does not become OOC untill its mentioned as such.
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: LARAGORN on June 29, 2006, 04:42:43 am
I can see you are very happy in you views on this matter. I dont think anything can be said to change your mind, and that in itself is sad. Everything you have brought up, has been fully explaind as OOC. The DEVs have worked long and hard to bring us this amazing free game. The setting has been set for us by the histories provided. It is, very clear From the information provided what is and is not IC.
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: Easton on June 29, 2006, 04:45:41 am
agreed..

Its a free game, so play by the rules. its the least you could do.
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: tssthorn on June 29, 2006, 04:51:58 am
Look im not saying im going to go around and mention email. Im just providing the pure facts of the situation. Just because thats the way it is does not mean we have to follow it. Suriously though, don't take my facts as a personal attack. It's just the way I think. I think logical and in common sense. Also yes no matter how much you hate it, it is the fact. You can't change this fact, and thats what really gets you angry. I also hate when people think of this as a personal attack towards RP but its not. I am just bringing this up just to let you all know, that saying somthing like email to you may be OOC but you just make it worse by saying it is. If your really into RP then you will ignore it and pretend it is still RP. Im only saying this because thats what I do when somone brings somthing up like that. I stick to RP at all costs. So I belbeive handling it this way is the best way. I will still explain OOC to newcomers but I will always ignore or act like its part of the RP if the time ever comes up.
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: Easton on June 29, 2006, 05:01:47 am
Quote from: tssthorn on June 29, 2006, 04:51:58 am
I am just bringing this up just to let you all know, that saying somthing like email to you may be OOC but you just make it worse by saying it is. If your really into RP then you will ignore it and pretend it is still RP.

no. the person bringing it up is making it worse by trying to find loopholes in a rule. I disagree with you on all counts. If you are into RP i think one would not simply ignore someone trying to play email as an rp idea. to me, it isn't. "Aye, i'll be with you in a moment to slay the evil Ulbernaut mage, but first i need to check my hotmail account.." that isn't rp to me.

Quote
Suriously though, don't take my facts as a personal attack. It's just the way I think. I think logical and in common sense. Also yes no matter how much you hate it, it is the fact. You can't change this fact, and thats what really gets you angry. I also hate when people think of this as a personal attack towards RP but its not.

I think you are very very very closeminded. and i assure you im not taking it as a personal attack. just, why try to think of ways to bend or break the rules when you can use them to your advantadge? again, not "you" but "you" as in the general player population. i don't take this as a personal attack by any means, but i feel you stating your opinions as fact is quite irresponsible. reread the rules and the setting, and then come back to this thread, and see how things change, if they do at all.. no hard feelings, its just aggravating when people feel they are soooo right when there's a rule stating the opposite of their so called "facts".

Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: tssthorn on June 29, 2006, 05:09:26 am
Look, using a whole bunch of OOC does not help OOC. So I say whats an email? then I /tell the eprson that it was OOC and explain to them what is and what isn't thats set by the rules. See what gets you people is you think just cause im explaining somthing that I do this when I DON'T. You really think saying [That was ooc] in open chat is so much better? I am also not trying to find holes in the system, I jsut came across them. Also it is fact! Making rules do not change FACTS. I have proved its not an oppinion with that example. Now how can you prove to me that its an oppinion ... you can't. Cause in reality its fact. Yes its fact that there is gravity but stating a rule saying there isn't does not change this fact.
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: Easton on June 29, 2006, 05:21:24 am
Quote from: tssthorn on June 29, 2006, 04:03:08 am
I want to discuss somthing. What if I siad I was from the future in the game? Its RPing and it allows me to go ooc even though im not. Or I could say I lived another life in the past. No matter what if somone says its ooc there is always away around it to make it IC and make them OOC instead. I mean if you really think about it talking OOC is not OOC till somone actaully says it is.

now watch how the discussion has changed...

Quote from: tssthorn on June 29, 2006, 05:09:26 am
Look, using a whole bunch of OOC does not help OOC. So I say whats an email? then I /tell the eprson that it was OOC and explain to them what is and what isn't thats set by the rules. See what gets you people is you think just cause im explaining somthing that I do this when I DON'T. You really think saying [That was ooc] in open chat is so much better? I am also not trying to find holes in the system, I jsut came across them. Also it is fact! Making rules do not change FACTS. I have proved its not an oppinion with that example. Now how can you prove to me that its an oppinion ... you can't. Cause in reality its fact. Yes its fact that there is gravity but stating a rule saying there isn't does not change this fact.

You have changed your argument here... to me, in the beginning you said "Its RPing and it allows me to go ooc even though im not." to me, this is not a fact at all, simply a misguided opinion. i cannot rp guns just because im "from the future". i can, but i certainly won't get anywhere with it. But anyways.. your argument shifted to "Look, using a whole bunch of OOC does not help OOC. So I say whats an email? then I /tell the eprson that it was OOC and explain to them what is and what isn't thats set by the rules". this argument has slightly more validity, but the point is, if someone says something ooc you have a couple of options:

1. ignore it

2. ask them to keep ooc things in brackets or /tells or at least away from where others are Rping

3. use /tell to complete option #2

Various people react differently, and on this point i agree with you. But some people [NOT you] simply don't realize this game is more RP-based than a chatroom. So they need to have a friendly reminder and maybe an invitation to the player guide. its as simple as that. i certainly didn't take anything you said as a personal attack and i garuntee you i understand your point that you do not do this you just wanted to bring it up.

Stay safe,
Easton Ghent

P.S- Gravity is a theory.
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: zhai on June 29, 2006, 05:27:32 am
let's face it: ooc in the main chat is like smoking in a crowded room. i think that both using it too much or not tolerating it at all are just big turn offs: the first puts any rp on hold and the second can make some people not want to play (for instance if they're newcomers and they're told to "shut the :@#\ up") and usually a harsh comment like that stops any rp as well as people turn their heads towards the ones involved. if you feel the need to go [ooc], you can always use the guild chat, group chat, or tells so the main chat channel doesn't get filled with ooc messages that really interrupt any other conversation.

sooooo, i think that the most important thing is to have fun and respect the others' right to have theirs (smoke if you want, but there's a terrace right there and a big window over there... AND we're all guests in this party so we all have to put up with a little smoke every once in a while. it's not so hard to compromise on this subject.

zhai
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: Farren Kutter on June 29, 2006, 05:30:03 am
zhai, do you smoke?
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: tssthorn on June 29, 2006, 05:30:25 am
Yes I agree iwth that as well, and sorry but my statment was takin the wrong way. What I meant by that was just stating what somone could do, not what I would do. Also it has already been shown by one of the rules that you cannot RP being from the Future so it settled that already. But what im sayig is if somone does mention email or somthing of the sorts don't go and tell them its OOC in OOC in open chat, cause that just makes it much worse because now its actaully open to everyone that its OOC and it has been pointed out. If yuo say what an email it keeps it more of in the setting of what would happen. Then you can /tell the person and explain what is ooc. Then that person canfollow up and say /me awakens "Huh thats strange I had an odd dream, sorry about that, now where were we?". I still don't think thats good enouph but hey at least it keeps the setting alot better then if we just pointed out ever OOC comment.

Nice analogie Zhai!!!
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: Easton on June 29, 2006, 05:32:31 am
Agreed.

 :D
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: zhai on June 29, 2006, 05:33:58 am
Quote from: Farren Kutter on June 29, 2006, 05:30:03 am
zhai, do you smoke?

lol, no. i hate it, but when i'm in a party or something, i know some will want to. i can put up with it, just don't blow your smoke at my face.  :whistling:
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: Karyuu on June 29, 2006, 05:35:22 am
A discussion about reacting IC to OOC comments was formed some time ago - it's a bad idea. You may think that you are helping the RP atmosphere, but you're not. It confuses a lot of new players who may not understand RP at all, it can force/entice the OOC party to continue with the OOC comments, and it in a way acknowledges the existence of the OOC comments by bringing them into your roleplay. Instead of replying as your character when you know for a fact that the person was speaking as a player, just send a /tell.

But I would not personally recommend the IC-reply-to-OOC suggestion.
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: Peacer on June 29, 2006, 05:37:12 am
@tsshorn: if someone is breaking the settings by saying weird stuf (like the email thing) you explain them that it's ooc, should happen once and not 10 other times "[ohh i forgot we didn't have computers, electricity or electric cables in the medieval ages!]"
if someone says anything IC you have to react to it as your character would. If he  didn't know about rp ic ooc and so on you could respect and ignore it.
Anyway i hope you will get some good IC experiments to make you feel the beauty of RP
firgive me if you think my comment was harsh i'm tired and need to sleep, no offence meant.

Good luck again

Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: tssthorn on June 29, 2006, 05:39:19 am
Ok well then to revise it don't follow up with an IC comment if you know the person is new to RP. Just /tell them. But I do find it helps greatly for a mistake in OOC. Such as if I made  amistake my friend would say what is that and that would remind me it was OOC.

Edit: I have plenty of RP experience thank you Peacer. Swivles will surley attack you in game now  :P . No just kidding
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: zhai on June 29, 2006, 05:54:55 am
(thnx. i liked my analogy as well :sweatdrop: so...)

Zhai's "How to React around Smokers" Table
OOC like "i crashed again" = an ashtray with some cigarrette butts. don't stir it and you'll be fine.

OOC like "wow! what's your sword level?!" = "dude, you're gonna throw your ash on me, here's the ashtray". use a /tell to [patiently educate].

OOC like "i think i'm pregnant and i can't tell my bf..." = guy/girl *under the influence of...* crying. yeah, you need to talk in private. here's where you group.

zhai.
Title: Re: Why so harsh on OOC?
Post by: tssthorn on June 29, 2006, 05:57:57 am
 :P Hehehe thats good. Of course now im going to go and have a smoke  :o Want a flower?  :flowers: