PlaneShift

Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: .:ZEN:. on July 01, 2006, 12:07:21 pm

Title: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: .:ZEN:. on July 01, 2006, 12:07:21 pm
 ???  ???  ???
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Karyuu on July 01, 2006, 12:07:34 pm
We don't.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: .:ZEN:. on July 01, 2006, 12:14:33 pm
We don't.

how do you pay for all of the costs (staff and servers)
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Karyuu on July 01, 2006, 12:15:02 pm
Staff are all volunteers, and the server is donated. It would do you good to read the main PS website :)
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: .:ZEN:. on July 01, 2006, 12:16:58 pm
Staff are all volunteers, and the server is donated. It would do you good to read the main PS website :)

Like some of the other mmorpg's (runescape)   (habbo-hotel)  Why dont you sell PS money on E-bay
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Karyuu on July 01, 2006, 12:20:09 pm
Because this is not the kind of game we want to create. We want a fully free game with no fees of any kind. Money isn't necessary, though we may take donations in the future to help development.

This is our hobby, what we do in our free time, how we learn game design, our way of letting our visions take shape.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: .:ZEN:. on July 01, 2006, 12:25:39 pm
Because this is not the kind of game we want to create. We want a fully free game with no fees of any kind. Money isn't necessary, though we may take donations in the future to help development.

This is our hobby, what we do in our free time, how we learn game design, our way of letting our visions take shape.

Wow and u even put up with all of the s**t we give you in pointless posts

but I mean I have to say this is a great game with good intentions (even though I have never gone online...)
keep it up  :D
 ps. the players of runescape actually sell items, accounts and money on e-bay and make lots of money doing it........  plus over 70% percent of the players in runescape have never baught any rs items of e-bay
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: ThomPhoenix on July 01, 2006, 12:53:19 pm
Wow, that's like the first time I've been quoted in someone's signature.
Cool!
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: .:ZEN:. on July 01, 2006, 01:17:19 pm
Wow, that's like the first time I've been quoted in someone's signature.
Cool!

lol... It will happen a lot If you keep on saying stupid/funny things lol
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: LigH on July 01, 2006, 02:33:39 pm
Please fix the second quote (it probably lacks of a "/" to close it).

And... don't exaggerate your signature - better concentrate on your posting contents. ;)
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Seytra on July 01, 2006, 03:38:13 pm
ps. the players of runescape actually sell items, accounts and money on e-bay and make lots of money doing it........  plus over 70% percent of the players in runescape have never baught any rs items of e-bay
Be aware that this (both selling and buying) is cheating, and that there aren't only rules forbidding that, but there will be an anti-cheat system as well. Cheating is a bannable offense.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: .:ZEN:. on July 01, 2006, 03:42:54 pm
ps. the players of runescape actually sell items, accounts and money on e-bay and make lots of money doing it........  plus over 70% percent of the players in runescape have never baught any rs items of e-bay
Be aware that this (both selling and buying) is cheating, and that there aren't only rules forbidding that, but there will be an anti-cheat system as well. Cheating is a bannable offense.


yes I know but what can runescape do about it DUDE ITS E-BAY!!!!!  and plus if PS had it then Not only would ps make money but it would be like 'free advertising!!'
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: steuben on July 01, 2006, 03:54:25 pm
forget it zen. it was decided long ago. a decision that isn't going to be reversed anytime soon. or by any simple arguement.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: TKoZ on July 01, 2006, 05:59:32 pm
Like some of the other mmorpg's (runescape)   (habbo-hotel)  Why dont you sell PS money on E-bay
That's not only illegal, but would destroy the game.

I pray PlaneShift doesn't sink to that level. Ever.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Karyuu on July 01, 2006, 06:31:58 pm
ZEN, the quote you have in your signature did not come from me. It's a good idea to find the actual source of the text.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: DaveG on July 01, 2006, 08:19:38 pm
'Twas me.  XD
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: alabamaangyl on July 01, 2006, 08:42:29 pm
Sorry for getting :offtopic: but what's even funnier, is that ThomPhoenix apparently didn't notice the error? Wasn't he the one who originally posted that? (Edit: ...and DaveG beat me to it... sorry!!  :oops: )

And anyway, back to the topic at hand, I've played runescape, and there's nothing sicker than users who buy stuff on ebay. Most are ripped off of their money and never see the items, anyway! Runescape just did a major ban of over 5k users who were caught doing this very thing! It's wrong and makes the game cheap. That's why I quit playing it awhile back, because rs is beginning to see a massive overload of cheaters which is downplaying the true spirit of the game.  :@#\

There's nothing I love better than a place just like this, where they strive so hard to make something enjoyable for everyone. Not only that, but they expect no money for it! These people work hard jobs to pay the bills and do this as a side hobby, but you'd never know by looking at the game! I think it's truly fantastic.  :love:

btw, I've never heard of habbo-hotel? (sorry, offtopic again, I know)
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Karyuu on July 01, 2006, 08:44:06 pm
ZEN had another quote in there before switching to this one, alabamaangyl.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: alabamaangyl on July 01, 2006, 08:47:44 pm
Ohhhh....  :oops:

/me slinks off in embarassment....
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Helm on July 01, 2006, 08:56:48 pm
I agree with alabamaangyl (damn your name is hard to write!!!!  :sweatdrop:). Paying real money for virtual items is nonsense and a rip off. I think Planeshift is a wonderful game because it actually moves on voluntaries! :) I am gonna be payed only with seeing my textures jumping in from of me, and that is payment enough!

Just because of this great non-payed team that makes Planeshift I think the game deserves a big hurray! :) All games should be free... :P Ok... maybe that's impossible! ;)
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Laith on July 01, 2006, 09:02:00 pm
weell I hope ps doesnt get too popular :P itll probally attract the bad community which will pretty much ruin one of the best thing about this game  :'( 
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: alabamaangyl on July 01, 2006, 09:07:55 pm
Thanks Helm! And sorry about the name!  :sweatdrop:

You know, I'm sorry if this has been asked before, and sorry for being offtopic also, but the thought just occurred to me... has anyone thought of putting up a paypal account to accept donations? I'm sure it would be nice to get something back for all your troubles, and it would help with any extra costs as well.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Helm on July 01, 2006, 09:09:57 pm
That is actually a very nice thing! :) Specially if you live in a "decent" country (USA) and not on a 3rd world (Europe)... :) It's cost free and 1 dollar each could help pay the server! :)
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Karyuu on July 01, 2006, 09:10:17 pm
Yes, Talad has actually already done work on a paypal donation account :) It should be available shortly.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: ThomPhoenix on July 01, 2006, 09:10:29 pm
He removed my quote!
I will never recover from this...  :'(

edit:
Paypal? I would trust Google Checkout even more than paypal, google analyses your data, but Paypal deletes it and claims it was your fault.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: alabamaangyl on July 01, 2006, 09:26:39 pm
Wow Helm! You're the first person I've ever heard call the USA "decent", lol. Thank you! But hey, I don't think Europe is so bad... certainly not a "3rd world"! In fact, someday I'd like to live in/around europe... or at least spend a summer-long vacation there!  :D

Anyways, glad to hear about that Karyuu! Looking forward to it!  \\o//

I'm gone for now... I'll be back later!

/me hugs all
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: peeg on July 01, 2006, 09:36:35 pm
The states rock ... Europe rocks .... erm... does it matter at all where you are from? :D
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Helm on July 01, 2006, 09:43:55 pm
Well, alaba... Fact is, Europe is my favourite continent and america does a lot of crap (but so did we europeans...  :whistling:). But to this internet things, to live in USA is to live in the future. It took me 5 years to be able to actually be possible to withdraw the money i get in paypal to my real bank account. And it took me 3 months to be accepted in paypal, when americans get recognition immediatly...  :'(

:) All countries have good and bad stuff. :) Hei, my homeland was exporting slaves all over the world, of all colours and shapes. But we were also the first ones to abolish slavery!  :sorcerer: We all have to agree that a *censured* leader does not make the country. ;)

but since this is  :offtopic:... It would be nice if people could make both paypal and google donation system. Many people gave up on paypal some months ago because of a stupid censorship freezing comunity.

[ Edited for language. --Karyuu ]
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: minetus on July 01, 2006, 10:27:58 pm
living in the us is not exactly living in the future ;D
maybe in certain places there is but others arent, alot of people tink the US is holywood and newyork only  :P but if you leave the big city scape you find out it isnt exacly like that..
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Helm on July 01, 2006, 10:33:06 pm
minetus... Sorry if I made myself misundesrtood, but I was talking in terms of internet! To live, nothing like Porto! Porque o Porto é uma nação, carago! :P

Translation for the rest of the word: "Because Porto is a nation, carago"... :D
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: minetus on July 01, 2006, 10:41:46 pm
lol, haha eaven in the internet aspect the same i said before aply's, there are place's in the us that look like a 3rd world country.
but thats something that happens i guess in all society's ::)
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: alabamaangyl on July 01, 2006, 11:05:21 pm
True, you rarely get wi-fi (I assume you meant that by porto?) internet, even here. Although that is changing. Cable/DSL is about as good as it gets. I myself have a 3MB connection. No limit that I know of tho. But I pay $60 a month for my internet. Ugh :( I'm updating to 10MB in the near future, it is $10 more per month.

And off-topic, I know, but Minetus is right about some parts of the US being like a 3rd world country... new york, chicago, L.A., and hollywood are what most people see (I guess), but in reality alot of cities are rundown and poor. Take mine for example... Athens, AL, "the original one horse town". Population: Nil ...and if you take away the horse, population -1   ;D

But I'm moving to "The Twin Cities" St. Paul/Minneapolis, Minnesota in two years anyway!  \\o//
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: hitancrias on July 01, 2006, 11:21:57 pm
I think he meant the city Porto, in Portugal.  ;)

Where I live (Holland) ADSL is quite cheap by the way. Only 15 euro per month for 20 mbps, virtually without a download limit. I think that's because of the high population density and the soft soil, which makes it relatively cheap to connect it all with fiber.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: alabamaangyl on July 01, 2006, 11:32:59 pm
Oooooo.... 20megs... *drools*

And 15 euro's is only $20!!! That's way cheaper than what I pay. Here, fiber is only available in really major cities, like jacksonville, fl, and usually is only available for commercial use because of it's expense. Your lucky!  :woot:
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Helm on July 01, 2006, 11:48:37 pm
Good old days when I lived in Finland and I had the best possible internet without limit for 20 euros per year... And phone network 150km away from North Pole, inside a huge natural park...

Good old days when I was an Erasmus student... *kicks diploma*

I thought Athens was in Greece!  X-/ I did not know you had an Athens in USA!!!! I am as bad as that in Geography!  :sweatdrop:
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: alabamaangyl on July 02, 2006, 12:01:43 am
Hehe, funny thing is, the most well-known Athens, here, is in the state of Georgia... it's a bigger city. I'm always having to explain that I'm not from that Athens... but this is the first time someone has thought I was from greece!  :P

Sorry about the mixup! But actually, I feel honored  :thumbup:
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Helm on July 02, 2006, 12:06:44 am
Well, I was never in Greece, but I would love too (I am an architect that loves ancient temples). I was only in San Francisco some years ago because of Yaoi Con, so I don't know that much of America. But I did notice I knew more states and cities of the US than most Americans I met!  X-/ But only the famous ones...  :oops:

But believe me, there is nothing worse than your own future mother-in-law telling you that there is no country more east than Spain, meaning Portugal does not exist to Europeans that live more western than France...  :sweatdrop: I simply do not exist...  X-/
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: alabamaangyl on July 02, 2006, 12:12:56 am
But believe me, there is nothing worse than your own future mother-in-law telling you that there is no country more east than Spain, meaning Portugal does not exist to Europeans that live more western than France...  :sweatdrop: I simply do not exist...  X-/

 ::| I'm not sure I understood all that...

\\o// But you exist to me! \\o//



(edit: you're engaged? So am I! Getting married in about two years)
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Helm on July 02, 2006, 12:18:21 am
I am marrying next May! :love:

Well, the whole story is the following: my man told his mother his girlfriend was from East Europe.

Mother - From France?
T. - No, more east.
M. - Spain?
T. - No, more east.
M. - There is nothing more East than Spain. One of the islands of Spain?

 :@#\

Portugal is "just" one of the oldest countries in Europe. Just coz we are the ass of it, does not mean we do not have our dignity!  ;D

Congratulations on your wedding! :) Hope you are very happy for the rest of your life!
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Karyuu on July 02, 2006, 12:21:02 am
Getting a little off-topic now ;)
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Helm on July 02, 2006, 12:21:43 am
Yes... Sorry, oh great moderator! :D Won't happen again, promise!
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: alabamaangyl on July 02, 2006, 01:38:04 am
Yes, I am sorry as well. Got a little too excited! ;)

Helm: I thought you were a boy!  X-/  :oops:

Boy is the foot in my mouth!  :-X

Okay, I'll be quiet now...  :D

Helm, PM me your contact info, we'll continue this convo outside the forums, if you like! :)
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: ThomPhoenix on July 02, 2006, 01:58:14 am
Just for the record:
North is up
South is down
West is left
East is right

It seems you mix east and south up.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: .:ZEN:. on July 02, 2006, 04:33:58 am
=- Well I gotta say USA is FAR from the future..... Japan and China are... look Japan has a freaking robot army and china well in a few years they will be able to change the weather by shooting Anti-Aircraft guns filled with chemicals into the sky!!!!

and USA what can they do??????
==-- Yeah the paypal thing is good... But you people DESERVE money and even if you dont want to be paid you can get more servers!!!

===--- (karyuu: you didn't see anything) Good luck on your wedding.... I am probobly getting married innnnnnn 11years!!!

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Karyuu on July 02, 2006, 04:35:58 am
We don't need more servers :) Laanx is enough for now. Again though - the quote in your signature is from DaveG, not me.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: .:ZEN:. on July 02, 2006, 04:52:57 am
ok i will just change it
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Delsabor Nash on July 02, 2006, 05:30:55 am
 :offtopic:  Karyuu getting married? thats very good to hear, good fortune to you and the lucky man  \\o//
Ill be getting married in about a half decade or so, maybe a tiny bit more.   /:offtopic

But on topic, Planeshift i think, because of the way the devs and the users are at the time, assuming they always stay like they are, will always be free. I mean, we wont have updates in the next day, and it will never be the quality of company produced games, but it sure will be close, and it wouldnt be as fun that way. I pray the community is always this way, and i love the way its free and how it is.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Karyuu on July 02, 2006, 05:32:27 am
I'm not getting married :P I have no clue what ZEN was talking about, though he was probably referring to the folks who had a conversation some posts up. Not sure why I was brought up.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: neko kyouran on July 02, 2006, 05:34:11 am
hehe, yeah Kary, when you and Xordan getting hitched?

@Del, I believe Zen was referring to Helm actually.

Edit, blast beaten to the punch yet again.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Karyuu on July 02, 2006, 05:34:56 am
Half a decade sounds like a reasonable time ;P

Quote
...and it will never be the quality of company produced games...

I think "never" is the wrong word to use. It's going to take us a long time to be truly comparable to commercial MMOs, but I don't think that this will be impossible.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: neko kyouran on July 02, 2006, 05:37:21 am
Don't forget the pictures!

You have no personal life around here.  mhwuhahahaaah  :devil:
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: alabamaangyl on July 02, 2006, 05:38:02 am
Hey don't forget, I'm getting married too! ;)

btw, karyuu, I noticed them call you Kary... is that just for short or is it your real name? I was asking, because My name is Carey :)
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Karyuu on July 02, 2006, 05:39:22 am
Kary is just a shortened form of Karyuu, because people are lazy blocks of sentient meat :P
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Delsabor Nash on July 02, 2006, 05:41:29 am
Not to be rude, but that Zen guy seems to be alittle off the rocker...  :sweatdrop:

And eitherway, good luck when you DO get hitched Karyuu  :D
Half a decade is very good if youve found the person you love and want to test that love for a while ,making sure its pure enough to have a wedding. Or in somecases, its waiting about half decade partly because of the law saying you cant make a decision on your own until your 18...  ;D

Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Suno_Regin on July 02, 2006, 05:42:32 am
Kary is just a shortened form of Karyuu, because people are lazy blocks of sentient meat :P

Hey..! I like to think of myself as easygoing, not lazy. =P
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Delsabor Nash on July 02, 2006, 05:45:19 am
Half a decade sounds like a reasonable time ;P

Quote
...and it will never be the quality of company produced games...

I think "never" is the wrong word to use. It's going to take us a long time to be truly comparable to commercial MMOs, but I don't think that this will be impossible.

Yes, your right, excuse my bad choice of words. I have a thing with choose words wrong. Im the guy who told his girlfriend's strict parents her bathing suit looked very sexy.  X-/
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: neko kyouran on July 02, 2006, 05:50:07 am
Kary is just a shortened form of Karyuu, because people are lazy blocks of sentient meat :P

Fine, I'll go back to saying Miss K.

Miss K, Miss K, Miss K, Miss K.

 :P yourself. 

/end sillyness
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: .:ZEN:. on July 02, 2006, 12:11:37 pm
I'm not getting married :P I have no clue what ZEN was talking about, though he was probably referring to the folks who had a conversation some posts up. Not sure why I was brought up.

oh  you were braught up because u said that this thing was getting way to  :offtopic:

*edit*

 :oops:Oh and when I said good luck on your marrage I meant that to helm      and uuuuh alalabmaangyl  :-[ and is that the right spelling btw ???

Please avoid posting two or more successive posts before others have replied. Just edit your last post to add new information. Thanks! --Karyuu
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: LigH on July 02, 2006, 03:19:07 pm
and uuuuh alalabmaangyl  :-[ and is that the right spelling btw ???

In case of doubt: select, copy & paste...

Technical hint: To add a line to your last post, use (http://hydlaa.com/smf/Themes/PlaneShift/images/english/modify.gif)

And IMHO, a less offensive signature would be great; but it seems not to be your nature not to be offensive...
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Raven Poeffie on July 02, 2006, 03:26:07 pm
Staff are all volunteers, and the server is donated. It would do you good to read the main PS website :)

Like some of the other mmorpg's (runescape)   (habbo-hotel)  Why dont you sell PS money on E-bay
Let's get one thing straight here: RUNESCAPE does NOT sell their gp's online and does NOT support real-world item trading
Quote
Rule 12 - Real World Item Trading
RuneScape items must only be exchanged for other items/services within the game.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: alabamaangyl on July 02, 2006, 08:33:20 pm
Oh of course they don't support it, Raven, but it happens ALL the time on RS (it doesn't make it right, tho!) ...just take a look at ebay! Type in runescape and tons of things come up. They are all scams in my opinion, and of course, the one's buying it never/seldom get what they paid for, but it does happen.

It even happens with big-time mmorpg's like ultima online, too, for that matter. Just search it up on ebay, "ultima online account". (I saw people selling rare UO items for as much as $30 - $81, and what's sadder, people actually bidding on these items!) It's very sad, and not the right way to make money at all! I'm glad this game doesn't have that sort of thing.

That's why I quit playing runescape... people were buying their stuff off of ebay and cheaping up the game... and then it became impossible for newbies and the poorer players to get ahead. (Thus the reason behind the massive 5,000 player ban a couple of months ago!)

Oh and sorry for the difficulty in my name, guys :sweatdrop:
It's my home state of Alabama paired with my online nickname... Angyl. U could all just call me Angyl if ya like! :)
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Andrek on July 03, 2006, 12:35:52 am
Like some of the other mmorpg's (runescape)   (habbo-hotel)  Why dont you sell PS money on E-bay
That's not only illegal, but would destroy the game.

I pray PlaneShift doesn't sink to that level. Ever.

Why is it illegal.  I do not advocate selling money or accounts on ebay, but I would like to know why it is illegal.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: ThomPhoenix on July 03, 2006, 12:48:03 am
It's not illegal by government law, but some companies state in their EULA that it's forbidden to sell in-game items/currency, actually most MMO's do that except for some shady chinese MMO's. I guess that's what confused him.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: alabamaangyl on July 03, 2006, 01:05:55 am
Andrek, I assume that this is because the items others are attempting to sell on ebay are copyrighted items, owned not by them, but by the game companies themselves.

So in a sense it is actually illegal, ThomPhoenix, but it depends on what country your in and their laws, as well as wether or not a game company has given expressed consent. (but of course, the logic is why would they do that when they can make money themselves by selling it on their website? Example: puzzle pirates, habbo hotel)
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Radakast on July 03, 2006, 03:05:58 am


It even happens with big-time mmorpg's like ultima online, too, for that matter. Just search it up on ebay, "ultima online account". (I saw people selling rare UO items for as much as $30 - $81, and what's sadder, people actually bidding on these items!) It's very sad, and not the right way to make money at all! I'm glad this game doesn't have that sort of thing.


I won't get into the debate on whether it's _right_ to buy online game cash or items for real cash, but here is the reason why I did it once, back in Everquest.

There was an item I really wanted, really really wanted.  It was a major upgrade in my equipment, was one of the best pieces of equipment for my class and had such a great special ability it made my character much better.  I played a Shaman, was able to heal myself or others reasonably well, was able to regenerate mana better than any other class in the game but all my damage spells were either very inefficient or were DoT (Damage over Time) so multiple castings of the same spell didn't increase the damage immediately, instead it just lengthened the duration of the DoT.

What I wanted, and why.
There was an item often referred to as the 'Space Ghost Blaster' - a wrist item that you clicked on and did 270+ damage, took 8 seconds to cast.  Using that item I could click on the blaster (ok, so it really was a JBB, Jaundiced Bone Bracer), blast for damage, heal myself (healing all damage I took during that 8 seconds), click on the blaster, and be far more efficient than trying to heal / blast / regen mana.

The problem with obtaining the item.
It was a rare drop off a rare spawn.  The spawn was in the back of a dungeon that required a balanced group to progress to it (at least at the time) and behind a locked door so you had to have a rogue with you to be able to get to the spawn location.  If you ever screwed up and died back there you would have to get another rogue to come in, unlock the door and let you get back to your body.

Once you did manage to get back there, a single character was able to solo that room.  The spawn location spawned something every 20 minutes, it had a spawn table with several different possible monsters, you were hunting one specific spawn, so on average it would take 2-3 hours before the right mob even spawned.  One he spawned, he had several items he could drop, the Space Ghost Blaster was just one of them.  On average you could expect to kill him 4-5 times before the item would drop.

What does all that mean?  Time.  It took a very large investment in time to have a chance of even getting the item.  You would have to plan on spending 1-2 hours getting your party together (cleric, rogue, tank, yourself and any additional classes you could find), you had to spend and hour or more fighting your way to the correct room (including unlocking the door), you had to hope there wasn't someone already there camping the room and then you had to kill stuff over and over until you got lucky.  At bare minimum you would expect 8-10 hours to get the item, I myself had spent well over 20 hours and still hadn't gotten it in 2 trips.

So, I was looking and spending at least another 8+ hours for a 3rd incursion into the dungeon to get my JBB.  That's 8+ hours in one big straight game playing session.  A JBB was selling on Ebay for 50 bucks.  8 hours sitting playing a game uninterrupted or 2-3 hours of overtime work to pay for it.  I signed up for overtime at work, made the 50 bucks, bought it on ebay and didn't worry about sitting in one room camping a spawn over and over.

_That's_ why people buy things with real cash, sometimes it's easier (or more time-efficient) to work your slave-job and get the cash, and bypass a time-sink in the game.  New games since EQ have minimized the time-requirements, but it's still there and you need to compare the game-time to work-time to earn the same amount of cash.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Karyuu on July 03, 2006, 03:09:06 am
Hahah! I enjoyed reading that, Radakast. Always nice to see a person post an argument from the other side :)
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: acraig on July 03, 2006, 03:13:18 am
That is why in Warcraft a lot of the best loot is 'bind on pickup'.  So you physically have to be there to get the item.  So people are selling off entire characters instead of equipment.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Radakast on July 03, 2006, 03:32:38 am
Right, so now I gave a clear example of how to do things the wrong way.   Here's a perfect example of how to do things the right way.

Puzzle Pirates allows you to buy "dubloons" (aka Dubs) for real cash in the game, I forget the rate but it's pretty cheep.  You can buy a shirt or pants or whatever for X amount of "PoE (Pieces of Eight, the gold you earn in game) but anything more elaborate than a basic shirt requires PoE as well as 1 or more dubs.

Within the game there is a market where you can buy Dubs for PoE or PoE for Dubs.  Let's say you're a poor, starving high school kid with no allowance to spend on games but more spare time than you probably should have.  You can spend your time earning PoE and then buy some Dubs on the market, allowing you the reward of getting a frilly shirt or an elaborate captain's hat, or whatever suits your fancy.  Conversly, the old guy with a good paying job but not as much play time can just buy a stack of Dubs, the cost is trivial (10 bucks, less than an hour of work) and then sell some of those Dubs for PoE (to the high school kid) and now he can reward himself with the same frilly shirt, etc.

In each case, it was a choice for the player on what is the most efficient use of their time.  Both players are rewarded by getting something they desire in the game, both players spent what they felt was an appropriate amount of time gaining the reward and 5 Rings (designer of PP) benefits from the sale of the Dubs.  Win-Win-Win situation.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Andrek on July 03, 2006, 03:38:48 am
LOL!!!!!  That was great!
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: neko kyouran on July 03, 2006, 04:27:12 am
Hmm, glad I poked him enough to post.  And all the while he was typing up all that, I've been sitting here next to him at work doing all the, well, work.  :@#\

Anyways, Rad does bring up good points.  I'm sure these issues shall be taken care as the game progresses, or we'll just get people buying/selling stuff from the game through outside sources.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Josellis on July 03, 2006, 06:56:41 am
That is definitively an issue the DEVs will have to face, and they should do it quite soon, because if it gets out of control, it will be much harder to get it back to what they want.

One thing they could do is to create an official market. On the forums of course, but maybe also ingame. This would reduce people selling items VIA other places, cause at the market, all the transactions (or just about) would be listed there.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: neko kyouran on July 03, 2006, 07:12:38 am
I'd think the best solution would be one in game, since you know, thats where the actual game is.  ::)

And many sugesstions/ideas/whatever have come up on the subject so I think something is planned eventually.  Besides, this may be wishful thinking, but since this game is heavily RP based, I would expect most of the players get the hint that they should be RPing, this including the buying and selling of stuff.  As such, I don't think we'd have to worry about this problem happening in PS on such a large scale as it does on other games.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Waylander on July 03, 2006, 07:38:02 am
Planeshift will probably never have such a big player base as most of those game.  And any player found trading out of game will most likely end up with a ban.  You won't be able to make much money from that anyways so, I doubt anybody will do that.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Andrek on July 03, 2006, 08:28:00 am
Well I know that I would love to make an exchange for real cash.  IG I create a good reason why I sell my uber-axe to someone else (I never use them) and in return they hit my paypal account with a financial hand.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Josellis on July 03, 2006, 08:30:19 am
Any transaction made outside of PlaneShift will change dramatically the price of items in the game. And this is really not wanted by GMs/DEVs.

This game is also 100% free, so the least you can do what they ask you
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: neko kyouran on July 03, 2006, 08:33:48 am
Well I know that I would love to make an exchange for real cash.  IG I create a good reason why I sell my uber-axe to someone else (I never use them) and in return they hit my paypal account with a financial hand.

And for this reason alone, you break the primary Rule of the game.  RP.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Andrek on July 03, 2006, 08:44:43 am
*Feels badly*  I said I would love to do it....  *Cries at his own greed*
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Radakast on July 03, 2006, 09:59:31 am
Buying items outside of any game is a simple reality anymore.  To pretend that it won't happen because a player base is more "enlightened" is niave, to put it politely.  If an item exists and it gives any benefit in the game (and heck, even if it doesn't give a benefit but does cause a visual cue, c.f. Puzzle Pirates cothing) then someone, somewhere will be willing to sell it.

I really don't know what this thread is about, I haven't read it, I posted here because I was asked, but people need to understand that selling items for cash is a reality and needs to be planned for.  "Banning" people who do it requires that someone search for evidence of that, do the required investigation and then dealing with the aftermath ("I didn't buy it, it was my brother's account and he gave it to me"). 

Banning people who break the rule isn't addressing the root cause, it's addressing the symptom.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: .:ZEN:. on July 03, 2006, 10:58:29 am
Ok now just look at it this way.... If PS were to sell lest say 1million trias it would be liiiiiiikkkke ummmmmmmm $100 or sumthing and no the e-bay thing is NOT a scam my friend buys 10-20million gp in runescape for real $$$ and imageine what the person could do with all of that money???? If PS did it they would get money for the servers and its a win-win-win situation because the prices will go down dramatically and also make all of the other players afford good things! as for Puzzle Pirates that idea is really stupid it takes 1hr to get 1dubloon 900poe and to buy a SMALL ship it is 50dubs and 20k!!! complete waste of time!!
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Radakast on July 03, 2006, 11:58:25 am
Zen,

Try this (http://cgi.ebay.com/The-Uses-Of-Grammar-by-Judith-Rodby-W-Ross-Wintero_W0QQitemZ230001964638QQihZ013QQcategoryZ2228QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: .:ZEN:. on July 03, 2006, 12:16:12 pm
Zen,

Try this (http://cgi.ebay.com/The-Uses-Of-Grammar-by-Judith-Rodby-W-Ross-Wintero_W0QQitemZ230001964638QQihZ013QQcategoryZ2228QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

 >:(  :@#\ Ha Ha with a BIG FAT HA veryyy funny :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: mavrik on July 03, 2006, 12:47:14 pm
I reckon there is certainly no way that players should be able to buy tria or any other items directly from the Planeshift Devs, as this would increase the amount of tria available in the game. Maybe setup an auction system though where Planeshift takes a cut of the final bid for server and game development costs, this way players can purchase with the safety of knowing they will actually get there items and only existing items are purchased. The Devs could also put inplace a limit as to how many items a player is able to put up for auction per month so that the more serious hack n slash sellers are less inclined to come along, while leaving the option open for more members to fill in the gap.
This way there will be more sellers, selling there excess and less sellers selling enough to warrant farming.

Just a thought 8)
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: neko kyouran on July 03, 2006, 12:52:39 pm
All well and good and all, but the server is donated, as much as about everything else  is.  Although, repaying Talad and acraig for their out of pocket expenses on hosting costs of the website and forums would be a nice thought.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: .:ZEN:. on July 03, 2006, 12:53:26 pm
yep... thats a good Idea now most of the people won't have to spend tons of time to get things on ps but in addition to that there should be a maximum amout of money a player can spend per week and per bid to keep things under controll
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: neko kyouran on July 03, 2006, 01:26:12 pm
Oh I never said I agreed upon the idea of even publicly supporting anything along those lines.  Frankly, I believe that all items should be bought in game and only in game.  The game has it's own world, as a player playing a character in said world, there should be no open form of OOC like buying of stuff.  Something along the lines of an in game auction house/ market or something done right should be well enough.  I was simply replying saying that if people wanted to start throwing real money around, it should go to something like I stated. 
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Shadow Hea on July 03, 2006, 01:34:24 pm
Because this is not the kind of game we want to create. We want a fully free game with no fees of any kind. Money isn't necessary, though we may take donations in the future to help development.

This is our hobby, what we do in our free time, how we learn game design, our way of letting our visions take shape.

Wow and u even put up with all of the s**t we give you in pointless posts

but I mean I have to say this is a great game with good intentions (even though I have never gone online...)
keep it up  :D


Um NO. Id say more like 99% of players have NEVer buyed items of ebay in runescape.

Any runescape items that go on sale at ebay are tagged by jagex right away. So the peron selling the item and the person buying it both get banned as soon as that item is traded.

So if you try this you will find about 30min later you will be banned. A perm IP ban.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: .:ZEN:. on July 03, 2006, 02:10:51 pm
HA HA have you ever tryed this... everything you just said was POINTLESS!! how?? my best friend gets like 1-10mill a month he has done this a LOT and he is not banned (i actually do think its sad but HECK they are really rich)
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Andrek on July 03, 2006, 05:38:49 pm
HA HA have you ever tryed this... everything you just said was POINTLESS!! how?? my best friend gets like 1-10mill a month he has done this a LOT and he is not banned (i actually do think its sad but HECK they are really rich)

Are we talking real money ore Runescape money?  1,000,000,000-10,000,000,000 a month is a little far fetched.  I may believe that he could get tens of thousands or more, but millions?  Where was I during the boom :'(
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: ThomPhoenix on July 03, 2006, 05:53:44 pm
Quote
So in a sense it is actually illegal, ThomPhoenix, but it depends on what country your in and their laws, as well as wether or not a game company has given expressed consent.
That is exactly what I said, but in other words.
Thanks for reinventing the wheel!
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Delsabor Nash on July 03, 2006, 05:58:31 pm
HA HA have you ever tryed this... everything you just said was POINTLESS!! how?? my best friend gets like 1-10mill a month he has done this a LOT and he is not banned (i actually do think its sad but HECK they are really rich)

Are we talking real money ore Runescape money?  1,000,000,000-10,000,000,000 a month is a little far fetched.  I may believe that he could get tens of thousands or more, but millions?  Where was I during the boom :'(

Yes im sorry, but i cant believe a family is RICH off of Runescape. That really far out there. And not to be rude but i cant help saying, its even more far fetched, because its coming from you ZEN, who has 50+ post, but hasnt really said anything useful here yet.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: alabamaangyl on July 03, 2006, 11:06:45 pm
Zen is talking about in-game money, I assume... but it's still farfetched... Runescape simply doesn't allow that sort of thing now. Not since the crackdown some months ago, anway. They have, if you would read their site, programs put into place to catch such activity. If your friend hasn't been banned yet, they are probably watching him to find out who is selling him the items/cash for real world money.

Shadow Hea is right. 99% of rs players, and players in general for that matter, do not cheat by buying items/money with realworld money. It's clear that some of us cannot agree on this subject, however... my opinion is that anyone who does so, really doesn't want to play the game in the spirit in which it was created.

In the end, it's a game, and more importantly, games are created for roleplay purposes... and for FUN! :) It's not a race to see who can get everything in the game the fastest. What would you do if you could buy your way into a game like that? There would be nothing left to do, and you would miss the satisfaction you get from earning the money for that rare item yourself.

I hope this post made sense... I'm under the infuence of nyquil and other cold meds I can't believe I'm gonna be sick for the 4th of July! :(
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Laith on July 04, 2006, 01:27:42 am
Zen is talking about in-game money, I assume... but it's still farfetched... Runescape simply doesn't allow that sort of thing now. Not since the crackdown some months ago, anway. They have, if you would read their site, programs put into place to catch such activity. If your friend hasn't been banned yet, they are probably watching him to find out who is selling him the items/cash for real world money.

Shadow Hea is right. 99% of rs players, and players in general for that matter, do not cheat by buying items/money with realworld money. It's clear that some of us cannot agree on this subject, however... my opinion is that anyone who does so, really doesn't want to play the game in the spirit in which it was created.

In the end, it's a game, and more importantly, games are created for roleplay purposes... and for FUN! :) It's not a race to see who can get everything in the game the fastest. What would you do if you could buy your way into a game like that? There would be nothing left to do, and you would miss the satisfaction you get from earning the money for that rare item yourself.

I hope this post made sense... I'm under the infuence of nyquil and other cold meds I can't believe I'm gonna be sick for the 4th of July! :(
well hope you get well and your post did make sence, :thumbup:
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: .:ZEN:. on July 04, 2006, 10:20:40 am
ummm he buys 1-10million 'gp' and no they are not rich off runescape and.... DO YOU PEOPLE ACTUALLY KNOW ANYTHING??? the ''crackdown'' had nothing to do with e-bay but the 5,000 players were banned because of 'MACROS' and NOT e-bay....

and who buys real money off e-bay  with real money??? so whoever thaught that my friend buys real money of ebay is really thick!
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: VMann on July 04, 2006, 01:13:08 pm
Cool down Zen
There are some problems i'd like to see solved here before too much posts are mislead.

1)Your statement about your friend was ambiguous. Let's try to clear them up
  a)What does your friend buy or sell (items, in game money)?
  b)What does he pay / is he paid (in game money, real money)?
  c)Does E-bay have anything to do with that?
  d)Is he rich in game or in real life?

2)
DO YOU PEOPLE ACTUALLY KNOW ANYTHING??? the ''crackdown'' had nothing to do with e-bay but the 5,000 players were banned because of 'MACROS' and NOT e-bay....
You exaggerate very much, and in a very insulting way..... that is in my opinion a very bad idea.
Please don't say people don't know anything, especially not if it was because something that by far not the whole world must be aware of like a "crackdown" in Runescape (I have never even seen that game, and i don't think i am stupid because of that)
Just politely say if someone was wrong, and in best case even give us a source for what you say, so everyone can say that you are right or it will be a case of predication against predication.

3) I don't think anyone expected your friend to buy real money for real money from E-bay. You see how obviously that does not make any sense (except something weird or illegal is going on perhaps? however, please don't go any further into this topic, it would not help on what we are really talking about here)


This is just a try to raise this conversation to a more pleasent and informative level, please don't take it as an insult.
Title: Re: How does ps make $$$$$$??
Post by: Santiago on July 04, 2006, 01:24:21 pm
So in answer to the topic,

Yes, Talad has actually already done work on a paypal donation account :) It should be available shortly.

For other answers, see page 1. For spam, see all other pages. Topic end