PlaneShift

Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Kiern on February 08, 2003, 05:01:35 pm

Title: Stealing Idea
Post by: Kiern on February 08, 2003, 05:01:35 pm
FEB

Well, I think instead of just being able to steal from a person, you should also be able to steal money/items from shops...as I really haven\'t played much mmorpg\'s im not sure if this is in others, but if it isn\'t it should be

Anyways, the shop could have like a designated place of their choosing to hide the money, and a thief would only be able to find it if they either knew beforehand where it was or had a high skill in spotting the money/items (of course, items would be stored in a back room, then you would need to be able to pick locks)

Of course, the owner might see you, but there are always invisibility spells and your friends to keep \'em busy, it also offers mroe of a reason to have guards

...you should also be able to run out of a store without paying your tab....because........um, more reasons to have guards?... :baby:
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Post by: Yann on February 08, 2003, 06:42:12 pm
It s a good idea...
Btw, to my mind, \"rogues\"(or whoever has a stealing skill) should be able to pick pocket items to all NPCs (not only the shop owners) in addition to stealing money.
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Post by: EstafanCortez on February 08, 2003, 08:31:23 pm
I was thinking, when houses come out, if a thief has a high (really high) pick lock and sneaks skills, they could be able to get into player owned houses and closed up playerowned stores and take stuff, but only one thing , becuase to many things would be to heavy and too noisy of course, but then players owuld have to store items in a back or safe tha an NPC owns ansd already has gaurds there untill the player can afford NPC gaurds for his own house or store...

just an idea to get out there
 :D
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Post by: Yann on February 08, 2003, 11:31:05 pm
I dont  like the idea of being able to steal from players...
In real, it could be possible, but i think nobody would like to have any item stolen...
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Post by: EstafanCortez on February 09, 2003, 12:01:13 am
it would make the game more fun, and then poeple would have to be alot more carfule

it makes it more relistic to....

anyway, wouldent it be great to start a guild war by steelign something  from the leader of another guild..
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Post by: Fanomatic2000 on February 09, 2003, 12:11:53 am
I like the idea about stealing from players, but I\'m not sure about NPCs. I\'m thinking about the ?ber-thiefes who\'ll steal from the NPCs like they want.
They will just learn the patterns after a while and then they can steal as much as they want  X(  
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Post by: explorer on February 09, 2003, 01:50:05 am
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Originally posted by EstafanCortez
I was thinking, when houses come out, if a thief has a high (really high) pick lock and sneaks skills, they could be able to get into player owned houses and closed up playerowned stores and take stuff, but only one thing , becuase to many things would be to heavy and too noisy of course,



if they did that , i think their stats should go down, like how strong they are etc. so there\'s a bigger risk if someone sees you. but i dont really like the idea of my items getting stolen. as for npc stealing, i think they should get very little. and when they get really high up they\'d be able to sneak into castles and get the goodies  :] . After they did that, i\'d like to see some sort of \"reputation\" thingy, so when they try to go into another castle they are not allowed.


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Post by: Link on February 09, 2003, 05:48:21 am
No, this wouldn\'t work, I seriously doubt there will be stealing from players. These forums are bad now... It would multiply by 200 if there was stealing from players \"Waahh waah blablah stole this from me, waaahhh\".
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Post by: Kiern on February 09, 2003, 05:52:04 am
when we have a game there really isn\'t much of a reason to come here unles you have to post ideas, otherwise you could just go to kada\'s if your afraid of whining newbies
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Post by: Link on February 09, 2003, 05:56:59 am
Yeah, soon KIERN, we will no longer be the top people here. The next demo will bring in another load of newbies, and will wipe us all out. I don\'t think I will be able to wait the next 6 months after this techdemo.
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Post by: Rakeleer on February 09, 2003, 05:57:31 am
And no matter what, if the game is popular, the boards will be full of people whning aout something.

nature of the beast.
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Post by: Kendaro on February 09, 2003, 06:07:59 am
Since there is no PvP system other than guild wars, arenas, and dueling there will be no steeling from players. Steeling from a player is like an attack they cannot retaliate from. Steeling will be soully left to NPCs. MOBs, and special quest related things. In the future the only player character I could think of that could be pick pocketed is if it was a GM related event and the character was GM run... Believe you me then when you try to steel from him/ her you will be testing your metal.
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Post by: Kiern on February 09, 2003, 06:41:19 am
um....on other stealing threads there were ideas for ways it could be done without PvP, so i don\'t really see the problem.....
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Post by: Kendaro on February 09, 2003, 07:21:30 am
If you steel from a player it is like attacking them. There is nothing they can do to stop you from doing it. If you succede then they simply are without their item or money with no way to retaliate. That is a PvP attack in a non PvP system. It is not acceptable.
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Post by: Kiern on February 09, 2003, 07:53:48 am
If they are caught stealing, then the guards should then show up they are either thrown in prison or killed...or maybe even transported...that may not be that realistic but I sure would be willing to sacrifice some realism to have stealing from other players
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Post by: Kendaro on February 09, 2003, 08:20:28 am
And if they succede? Then the player who was stolen from is SOL with no way to retaliate from this attack on his character. It will not work.
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Post by: FMiddy on February 09, 2003, 08:59:21 am
thats why ya put locks on your doors and they make it hard to break into a house, whats the point in being a thief if ya cant go for the real prize once you get skilled enough, more realism, more excitement. More whining? oh well... just ignore them...
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Post by: kinshadow on February 09, 2003, 10:25:51 am
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Originally posted by Kendaro
Since there is no PvP system other than guild wars, arenas, and dueling there will be no steeling from players.


Thus, (as Estafan mentioned earlier) it would make since you could steal from a rival guild member.  The opponent could respond in force if you are caught.
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Post by: Rakeleer on February 09, 2003, 01:54:25 pm
Sad, but true.

There\'s no point in including any sort of thievery if the plan is to  go entirely impotent on the PvP side.
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Post by: Kiern on February 09, 2003, 04:28:38 pm
uh...if their not caught then no one will know it was them and they get away, how exactly would they retailiate even with PvP?

And what if you find them stealing, it sort of acts like the guild war thing except it does not matter if the thief agrees or not and the guy that catches him can easily kill him...there could also be ways the people can protect their things using magic, making it even more difficult
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Post by: Valfaran on February 09, 2003, 06:50:07 pm
I think it would just be easiest to be able to steal from NPC\'s only. Then, going along with the Reputation thing, if you stole from a Temple Guard and got noticed, other Temple Guards might knock you around a little.
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Post by: kinshadow on February 09, 2003, 08:07:21 pm
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Originally posted by Kiern
uh...if their not caught then no one will know it was them and they get away, how exactly would they retailiate even with PvP?


Thus, the benefit of being a thief.  The rival would strive not to let the other person get that close (possibly killing him beforehand ) or booby trapping his own gear to deter thieves.

Quote
Originally posted by Kiern
And what if you find them stealing, it sort of acts like the guild war thing except it does not matter if the thief agrees or not and the guy that catches him can easily kill him...there could also be ways the people can protect their things using magic, making it even more difficult


Perhaps the whole definition of \"guild war\" is at question.  I was taking it as the traditional UO definition in that you can openly PK (and in this case steal from) any member of an opposing guild.  Both guild leaders have to consent to the \"declaration of war\", but after that there is no more \"consent\".  Thus, the victim of the theft could have killed the thief at any moment anyway.  Only the cunningness and skills of the thief will allow him to get close enough to act.

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Post by: Kiern on February 09, 2003, 08:46:39 pm
I was not talking about if they were already in a guild war, I\'m talking about what my original post was about (wow)

It would not work if oyu could only steal from people you were in a war with....what about people who like to play solo rogues?  that would be a huge disadvantage and may cause them to join a guild when they really don\'t want to
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Post by: FMiddy on February 09, 2003, 10:11:24 pm
there was a whole other thread on this not too long ago, Ill be right back with it...
*goes off to find the thread*

*runs back in*
ok heres one Venge was very active in:
http://www.planeshift3d.com/forum/thread.php?threadid=1996&boardid=11&page=1

and heres where a PK thread slowly got turned into a thread about theivery with some really good ideas :D:
http://www.planeshift3d.com/forum/thread.php?threadid=2426&boardid=11
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Post by: Rakeleer on February 09, 2003, 11:33:06 pm
Pheonix\'s point in one of those threads was, that without any balancing factor, in a skill based system, everyone will be a thief because it\'s a major advantage (nevermind that you can\'t steal from players in a game that allows no PvP).

In that case, I\'d suggest the penalty for being a thief....

Perma death.

If you are a known criminal, and you are caught and killed, you don\'t come back.

Something like EQ\'s original \'Dischord\' system would be good.

Scenario:

I am a rogue.  I decide to steal from a player.
After toggling the \"Do you know what you\'re doing\" notice off, I do the dirty deed.

I am not caught.

An hour later, the player realizes something was stolen from him.  A great wailing and gnashing of teeth is heard in the Stone Labyrinth.

I steal from another player, but this time, I\'m caught.  The game brands me somehow as a \'criminal\'.

From that time forward, I can be attacked be anyone, and if I die, death is permenant, and my corpse will be lootable.


Of course, there are multitudes of problems with that system, but it would certainly be a deterrant to casual thieves.

A karma system would be good too.

B ut honestly, all this code for something the devs don\'t seem to want in the first place?  I don\'t see it happening, so I won\'t waste anymore thought on it.

Oh, and I won\'t be playing an impotent rogue, either. ;)
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Post by: Kiern on February 10, 2003, 12:06:08 am
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Originally posted by Rakeleer
B ut honestly, all this code for something the devs don\'t seem to want in the first place?  I don\'t see it happening, so I won\'t waste anymore thought on it.



no no no, thats what the wish list is for...who knows what they wil be able to do or will not be able to do.  More devs will come and others will leave, so nothing is sure on what they will want and do not want...so offering ideas that they don\'t want right now can be of use later, or provide something they have not thought of before which might change their minds (or give me something to argue with)

As long as it is not the same idea over and over
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Post by: Rakeleer on February 10, 2003, 12:27:12 am
Well I, for one, do not buy into the idea that NOT including PvP will eliminate or sufficiently reduce griefers.

And I don\'t believe EQ\'s success comes from the lack of PvP.
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Post by: kinshadow on February 10, 2003, 01:13:16 am
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Originally posted by Kiern
I was not talking about if they were already in a guild war, I\'m talking about what my original post was about (wow)


I was offering a middle ground for the discussion and taking your reply in the same context that I replied to Kendaro\'s post on the general subject of stealing (to which I assume you were replying).  Stealing from homes could be dealt with in the same way.  Rogues could booby trap their guild houses and only other opposing rogues could (at great risk to themselves) venture into these abodes.

Quote
Originally posted by Kiern
It would not work if oyu could only steal from people you were in a war with....what about people who like to play solo rogues?  that would be a huge disadvantage and may cause them to join a guild when they really don\'t want to


Thus, a disadvantage (or trade-off) for being a rogue.  \"Thieves Guilds\" are very popular in Fantasy. Open thievery could be possibly unbalancing issue, so restricting it to guild war (and guild owned houses) is not outrageous in my opinion.  Also, mercenaries could be hired to guard guild houses when the guild members themselves can not be around.






Quote
Originally posted by Rakeleer
Pheonix\'s point in one of those threads was, that without any balancing factor, in a skill based system, everyone will be a thief because it\'s a major advantage (nevermind that you can\'t steal from players in a game that allows no PvP).


That depends on how the implement the skill system.  If you have an overall skill cap or\" the higher you are in one skill, the rest suffer from diminishing returns\", then the disadvantage of having the steal skill is that it hurts your other abilities.  This combined with some restricted usage (i.e. safe zones and/or only guild war, etc.) would provided enough balance IMO.  I think \'perma death\' is a bad solution in any cases.





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Post by: FMiddy on February 10, 2003, 01:20:19 am
ok, my idea was to have a wanted level, if you steal from someone and they know it was you they go and report you to a guard, then a point is added to their wanted to level, and maybe you could give the guard some money to add to the guys bounty, then people could go out and find him and bring him to the arena where justice will be served on him, then he could possibly be jailed and/or have some of his items/money taken and given to the victims for repayment, and then if they find out where his hideout is, they could hire another thief to pick his lock so they could get there stuff back.  I was also looking for a KO system instead of a PK system or nothing at all, its one of the first posts in the PK thread, read it if you want.
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Post by: Kiern on February 10, 2003, 02:21:08 am
Quote
Originally posted by kinshadow

Thus, a disadvantage (or trade-off) for being a rogue.  \"Thieves Guilds\" are very popular in Fantasy. Open thievery could be possibly unbalancing issue, so restricting it to guild war (and guild owned houses) is not outrageous in my opinion.  Also, mercenaries could be hired to guard guild houses when the guild members themselves can not be around.



so, basically people would have to create a theives guild and make war with every guild there is just to be able to steal from someone, and what if their target was not even in a guild? Seems just as complicated as the other way
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Post by: EstafanCortez on February 11, 2003, 11:37:31 pm
If stealing is incorperated(i hope it is) and you are caught with a minor offence, like pickpoceting  or sometihng and just giving jail time with a fine, would you be able to pick lock yur cell and sneak out of jail if u didnt want to waste yur time :] :evil: