PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Tyrande on August 31, 2006, 02:49:09 am
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i was in the tavern and i saw someone names Izlandari so i said you shouldent copy names from books because they are supposto be original and i get reported and im ticked :@#\ im not sure if i'll ever live what they did to me down :@#\ :@#\
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You shouldn't really say anything and just make a petition about it. You were probably yelling at them OOCly in an RP moment. That's what the tavern's for - roleplay. What I do when I see a stupid/unoriginal name is just petition and walk by without a care. Blurting out that someone has a name that goes against the rules - especially OOCly - gets you in deep crap. Trust me, I've done it before and got burned for it seriously. Just make a petition and ignore it until it's changed.
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If you're reported for some reason but you did nothing wrong, why worry about it? It's not like a report automatically means you're in the wrong. In fact if a GM sees a useless report, it's just ignored.
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Besides, that's not what the actual name is.
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If you're reported for some reason but you did nothing wrong
This happened to me the other day. Well I believe I did nothing wrong but I may have been in a grey area somewhere. Anyways I wasn't too worried about and haven't heard anything about it but I haven't been on much since. The funny thing about it is after the guy reported me he yammered at me for a while longer so I put him on ignore after which he reported me again. Well maybe it was a lag induced resent packet that generated the second "you have been reported" message but it was like 5 minutes later so I kind of doubt it or perhaps that message bookends the logging period but it didn't sound like it
As far as names go my name is pretty crummy and has been mistaken for having something to do with hobbits but it really doesn't. It would bother me if it got changed but I'd get used to it. I've seen lots of names that come from elsewhere and even knowingly have a character that probably is stricktly unacceptable. I mostly just play bilbous. I just figure it isn't my business to point out names the come from literature or names that come from other games. I have seen a few. I can't be the only one. As a matter of fact the above incident started because I made an OOC greeting that obliquely referenced a piece of literature suitably encased in square brackets. This caused the other person to huffily say I was killing his RP and suggested a different origin for the name. It went on from there but it gets less relevant as I keep typing.
Well I probably have done something wrong in posting this now and should have stopped three or four posts ago but it is late so my judgement is lacking. I think I have completely lost whatever I was trying to add to the thread. Peraps there is some kernel of wisdom perhaps not. All the nice things peopls said about my ideas in other threads have gone right into my head and given me delusions of grandeur.
Please stop typing now fingers. Just press Post and be done with it.
Please I'm begging you stop typing Stop it StopSTOP!
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Ty, I belive "Tyrande" is from a game called "warcraft III" so its even.
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Tyrande Whisperwind is a Night Elf priestess from the Warcraft Universe. She first appeared in the video game Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos, in the Night Elf campaign, Eternity's End. She subsequently appeared in Warcraft III: the Frozen Throne, in Terror of the Tides and the War of the Ancients trilogy.
Completely true Nerule ;)
but on the forums there is no naming rule so only if it's also used ingame it's a problem ;)
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Original names? Almost every name has probably been used in a book somewhere. In fact i know there are some names from books already in the game as i tried to use them and was told they were already in use (e.g.Twig). I called myself Cornellius Barkwater. Will this get me into trouble?
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My name kind of comes from Warcraft III, mased on "Ner'Zhul" but not exactly the same.
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It shouldn't really matter, as long as your character isn't named "George Washington" or something. Someone from Hobbit or Warcraft, even if you stole their name, no one IC would know who that is, and you should be able to use the name. The naming rules should only apply to things like "Superman" or something. But if you got a name from a book, and it's actually a name instead of a title, it should be allowed.
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@Suno_Regin: Absolutely it does matter, and should not be allowed. I can't help but wonder how you, after having been here for some time by now, still seem to not know about the naming policy nor the reasons behind it.
* No offensive or vulgar names. (Swearwords, insults, etc)
* No names using repeated letters. (No more than 2 of the same letter repeated together)
* No adjective, verb or title as firstname. (Describing words, doing words, or titles such as Lord or Lady)
* No word combinations to make phrases or sentences (either in one name alone or first and last names combined)
* Names must make sense to a Medieval Fantasy setting. (Nothing furutistic or Sci-Fi please)
* No names of popular culture (fictional/non-fictional), or trademarked (companies, characters, placenames) real or unreal.
The reason is (or should be, anyway) obvious, and has been stated many times by now: by using a name from another character you force everyone who comes into contact with that name in PS to recall the char you stole the name from. That in turn will not only lessen your credibility as character in PS, and create expectations that you cannot live up to, it'll also break the other person's immersion. So in fact you lessen other's ability to enjoy PS, and that's why it's not acceptable. :thumbdown:
@ bilbous: For this effect to happen it doesn't matter whether your intention was to steal a name or make a reference. Noone knows (also, you could be lying in saying that it wasn't intended) and even if, they'd still keep being torn out of immesrion by it. Thus, intent cannot validate a name.
If someone who has never heard of "George Washington" and thought that was a perfectly suitable name for PS and used it, it'd still need to be changed for exactly the same reasons.
Regarding the names that shouldn't be ingame but are marked as "taken": This sadly is the truth, and cannot be avoided, but is in no way a justification for trying to get through with an unsuitable name. Some names will always slip through, be it because the char didn't get played for a time sufficient to get it detected, be it that it got banned but not renamed beforehand, or because no GM actually knew the name to spot it. GMs are normal people, and thus can't be expected to know each and every book, movie and game, even popular ones. And Warcraft can be reasonably classified as "popular".
This is, BTW, one of the reasons why each and every player should actually report names (using /petition). If the players start condoning bad names (even if only by saying "That's not my business"), the GMs will slowly grow distant from the players, and vice-versa, and this'll lead to the RL "evil government" effect. Also, it is your business, because they directly harm you by decreasing your ability to enjoy PS (unless, of course, you are here for the wrong reasons, in which case there's another problem). So yes, it is your business, and you can be expected to report bad names. I always do.
Talking to the one with the unsuitable name sometimes actually works, but most of the time you merely get a response like "You can't do anything about it, so shut up!" or, at best "I think it's OK.". Thus I only talk to those who seem like they <Xsarc>truly didn't see the word "random", didn't notice the big "?" and overlooked the pop-up. You'd think that'd be "noone",</Xsarc> hence I also talk to those who seem to be RPers. Usually, I use /tell for that, unless there's noone else around to be disturbed by the OOC.
@Nerule: AFAICS your name is sufficiently distorted to not create the aforementioned effects so IMO it's fine.
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The name Bilbous is a perfectly fine name... If people don't like it they can deal with it. If it brings them out of immersion, oh well..
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The name Bilbous is a perfectly fine name... If people don't like it they can deal with it. If it brings them out of immersion, oh well..
It is a border case that'll likely come out as "barely acceptable" if a case were to be made (That's why I didn't petition it when I noticed it). Your lack of caring about your fellow player's immersion wouldn't, though.
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Let me just give a few more thoughts on this subject, because I was there during the topic creator's incident.
First of all, the character's name was Islanzadi. This happens to also be the name of the elf queen in Eragon. Now, I read that book and didn't remember the name. (Of course, it might have actually been from Eldest rather than Eragon, which would explain that because I didn't read that one.) Maybe it might be possible to allow names of more obscure characters that fewer people would remember.
Basically, my feeling is that as long as the name fits with all the other names of characters, and isn't a popular main character that a lot of people know, it should be allowed. But the name should definitely be changed if they try to actually model their character around the name.
Really, it all boils down to the question of how original PS really needs to be. Trying to make the PS world original is good, but not when you start to be not allowed to do stuff JUST because it's in something else too. The whole idea of originality is being free not to follow the crowd, not being FORCED not to use names from other sources. I think that in a game that already has humans, elves, dwarves, anthropomorphic cats, living rocks, rats, real-life weapons, and an NPC named Saria, a few names in common with other places can't be that bad.
I mean, what if there was suddenly a new popular video game out that took place in a world on the inside of a stalactite? Would they have to totally remake the setting and put it in, say, a coral reef? (However, discussing how original PS should be should probably be another topic.)
As for the name Bilbous, I don't think it's a good name. Not because it sounds like Bilbo, but because it sounds like an adjective. I mean, it's one letter away from "bulbous".
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If you're going OOC in public chat over a name which is only borderline inappropriate... and if, at the same time, your own character is named after Bilbo from the hobbit... then yeah, I can see why you'd be on thin ice.
Besides. Anytime you go out of character, you should expect to be "huffily yammered" at. You're not supposed to do it. ;)
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Pardon, but 'bilbo' is not originally a Hobbit name.
bilbo (noun): small European thrusting sword with a rapierlike hilt
I like the name, by the way. In trying to be so 'original', it is becoming hard to remember some of the odder names with the overuse of 'X' and 'Z'.
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Is that pointed at me utm :P?
Cornelius is a fine name
Bilbous is fine too
I would tend to agree though that any directly derrivative name of a character in a popular series no matter how obscure the character is to be avoided.
Originality in naming does and should hold huge sway over how chracters are named. It is really not hard to be original, folks should try harder.
As for me I have been playing the name Xillix (or varients) in table-top games for over a decade, but i looked it up on google recently and there are companies with the name and such . . .
I agree with those who suggest a simple petition rather than confrontation, and I also would like to see gms take the time to ask a player what they would like to be changed to rather than the random name generation for characters with "bad" names (I do not know how many they have to change so this may be impractical). Some of this is subjective so I think sticking with the rule is good, because the rule is pretty objective, and I wish new players would take the time to read the damned character generation screen. Also I would add some to that dialogue box: making a short statement into a compound word for instance is no solution to naming troubles, ala Angeloffate or some such. :sorcerer:
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All characters with "bad" names are approached before they are renamed - multiple /tells are sent, sometimes along with /warnings if the tells are ignored. If we get no response after several minutes (and we see that a character is walking around and thus not AFK) a random name is used. If a name is reported through petitions however, we usually rename immediately even with the character offline. This is to avoid the petition list overflowing, endless waiting for a character to sign on (keeping a messy buddy list), and similar :} People should follow the rules - and they always have the opportunity to get their names changed to something appropriate they would want later.
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for clarification:
When a player chooses a name, it has meaning to them.
And just as in the real world, their name shapes who they are, and how they play.
Names are supposed to have meanings, and connect to other people, places and things.
That you know a name, and can connect it to something or somewhere else, is not a reason to force someone to change it.
And being able to look a name up on google, only means that you were curious enough to do a search.
A name is not really a problem, unless it actually interferes with play.
A literary, political or historical name has to be pretty famous to interfere.
Most players who see it would have to know it well, and object to it also.
Elvis, Bullwinkle, Winston Churchill and Harry Potter would be a problem.
Smurfette, Sonic Hedgehog and Needa Hanjob would have to go.
But Cordwainer Bird, Zenna Henderson, Thumper Bobowski, Ima Teepot, and the aforementioned Islanzadi, are just fine, I think.
I feel more at home, knowing that others love some of the same things that I do.
(And I rather miss Harvey Wallbanger, too...)
~Verrliit~
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That must have been what happened Karyuu, I think my name changed while i was logged off, and i got it changed again soon after . . . It was funny in my case though because all I had to do to make the name acceptable was invert the first and last names ;)
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Bilbous is not Bilbo in any way shape or form, so... It is a player's fault if they see it that way, not Bilbous's...
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Pardon, but 'bilbo' is not originally a Hobbit name.
bilbo (noun): small European thrusting sword with a rapierlike hilt
Thank you.:)
I would tend to agree though that any directly derrivative name of a character in a popular series no matter how obscure the character is to be avoided.
Thank you, as well.
Cordwainer Bird, Zenna Henderson, Thumper Bobowski, Ima Teepot, and the aforementioned Islanzadi, are just fine, I think.
Uh, no? Islanzadi might be troublesome, but Ima Teepot is just silly...
Bilbous is not Bilbo in any way shape or form, so... It is a player's fault if they see it that way, not Bilbous's...
Bilbo-us. So it is Bilbo in at least one way, shape, and form.
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There's no need to discuss any specific player's name here - no one is at fault or needs a namechange or a slap on the wrist.
Obscure names don't guarantee acceptance from a GM. But there is no black and white in the naming rules - we will never have a set of rules that will cover all scenarios, so everything is dealt with on a case-by-case basis. And you can discuss and debate and talk semantics for years and years because there is no "general" resolution to anything.
I think we've answered the original post sufficiently enough.