PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Venae Rell on September 02, 2006, 12:11:23 am
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Hey folks, lately I see a few players luring monsters into following them into Hydlaa. :o
While it's an interesting event to be sure, there are some RP things I hope those doing it are considering.
One- the city guards would have to have a pretty darned good reason to not simply shut the gates until some Hero/ine(s) can be dispatched to deal with the beast outside the walls.
Two- Though all our characters are generally able-bodied adults, Hydlaa is also populated with children, the elderly, and lots of other people who may not be able to protect themselves very well. Bringing dangerous monsters into the city is a strong statement about one's lack of concern for these people.
I'm hoping that the folks involved with these events are RPing this properly, as some of us are going to be pretty determined to hold them accountable :)
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Hey folks, lately I see a few players luring monsters into following them into Hydlaa. :o
While it's an interesting event to be sure, there are some RP things I hope those doing it are considering.
One- the city guards would have to have a pretty darned good reason to not simply shut the gates until some Hero/ine(s) can be dispatched to deal with the beast outside the walls.
Two- Though all our characters are generally able-bodied adults, Hydlaa is also populated with children, the elderly, and lots of other people who may not be able to protect themselves very well. Bringing dangerous monsters into the city is a strong statement about one's lack of concern for these people.
I'm hoping that the folks involved with these events are RPing this properly, as some of us are going to be pretty determined to hold them accountable :)
1) You cannot be held accountable for anything in Yliakum, there are no courts, laws, executives, or legislature. So people really have nothing to worry about.
2) Even if you could hold them liable, there is no proper punishment.
Kill them...... so what, they just spawn back....
3) The guards, currently arn't on duty, being that NPC's arn't working or responding, so I would RP them either Asleep or under some sort of Spell by a God.
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On a side note, i enjoy seeing Ulbers destroy the weak, it gives bored people something to do lol.
I've done a few times myself in the past, when my guild went Evil, we had a blast.
And most people, if they are smart, will run away from the ulber, it's not like ulbers are that fast anyway.
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But in general, me being a good person, i can't allow the destruction of the good, so i'd have to agree with you.
I'd personally just go and kill the beast myself if i saw them causing destruction
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...Back when I was playing, I'd be banned on the spot if I did crap like this. So now you can lure ulbers daily and no one rides you for it?
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...Back when I was playing, I'd be banned on the spot if I did crap like this. So now you can lure ulbers daily and no one rides you for it?
why should they? I've never heard it was wrong. It seems perfectly IC.
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It depends on where you are bringing the Ulbers to. If there are newbies around who are just looking at the game and learning its ways, and some player who thinks it's funny decides to lead in some dangerous mobs that create a very difficult situation for them, GMs will approach that player (or that group of players) and ask them to stop. Gameplay is supposed to be fun - new players don't log into the middle of a town and expect to be attacked by monsters way beyond their skills to defeat.
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1) You cannot be held accountable for anything in Yliakum, there are no courts, laws, executives, or legislature. So people really have nothing to worry about.
2) Even if you could hold them liable, there is no proper punishment.
Kill them...... so what, they just spawn back....
3) The guards, currently arn't on duty, being that NPC's arn't working or responding, so I would RP them either Asleep or under some sort of Spell by a God.
Is it just me or does this describe bad RP based on not finished gamemechanics?
1. No laws, no courts? Ofcourse there are. RPwise you'll have to play they do exist and do respond seeing it's obvious from the setting we aren't living in a civilization who would be lacking those. Second OOC we have GMs and rules aswell so wrong on both counts
2. no proper punishment OOC I think you mean. As IC you could get any punishment humanly concievable not disallowed by the setting. OOC there are things like banning. So again wrong at both counts
3. Asleep or Spell by god? Thats just ridiculous. They are standing right there by the gate. Just becuase gamemechanics aren't advanced enough doesn't mean you can just ignore them in RP :P
All in all rather OOC viewpoints mixed in this "RP" view I have to say. Making the action itself rather OOC aswell and not RP evildoing.
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can they just punish them by giving them a large fine or like eventually loosing a good standing reputatiopn so that gaurds if they were working would kill them on site. hen again you would need police in the game as people jobs, or npcs that would isuue the fine and take there money which could possibly go to the people running the city.
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Well, that being said, DaTruth you are in a position to get banned right now if you are the person luring.
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I Like it!
Haag recently lured all the ulbers to just outside the gates to oja because a "good" (i dont believe most noobsy tweekers in ps know how to play either good or evil in yliakum) guild was having a guild meeting on the other side of the doors. Haag did it as a wickedness. I know this is not the same thing.
I think itd be nice if you could rp making monsters invisible (coming soon tm [i know you will probably only be able to cast this on yourself]) and sneaking them past the guards and such . . . Perhaps a cloud of darkness obscures them as they enter . . . Of course if you are caught you should expect consequences (either by your willingness to rp being caught, or by the challenges of the "good," or even the city guard guild).
I am sure it will be made impossible to lure monsters in soon by the code so the whole argument is likely moot, but i dont think it should be impossible . . .
Eventually it'd be nice if "evil" (again i have so little faith in the capacity of people to play evil) folks could actually use glyphs to summon hordes of monsters into the cities [I know talad made the glyphs so this won't happen, but could they not be perverted, by laanx or the blackflame?]
As far as noobs and mobs . . . run away little noob . . . fear can be fun in an rpg, and even death results in an exciting rp oppourtunity to discover the death realm
ulbers in the tavern! yay!
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Xillix, you can't assume that they're making an invisibility spell...and one time Rokani, I think her name was, morphed me into a consumer and I was running around in the tavern scaring the crap out of people...but yeah, it'd be fun, OOCly, to have ulbernauts all over town again. Drey needs to make another event like that.
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some people who have built their own CVS version know what glyphs are coming. And let me tell you, there are lots. So yes.. there is a way to know if an invisibility glyph is coming.
But on topic: I personally think there are better things to do than lure huge monsters into the plaza. Sure, some find it fun to kill the things, but seriously, its nothing constructive (and not very destructive either). Might as well be writing a good story for an evil character that can summon creatures at his/her will. So when a summon animal glyph combination is available, you can use it to your advantadge.
I've got more to say, but i'll yield for a bit..
Easton
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Well I know this thread's full of crap anyway. Back when I was playing as Kenti, in that one guild...Atrox something? I completely forget the name...anyway, I kept luring rogues and other things into Hydlaa with ease, and I was warned several times that if I did it anymore I'd be banned. So now, all of a sudden, after I stopped playing as him and went on to abandon the identity, this is allowed? I was doing it for a partial IC reason anyway...rogues aren't monsters, they're people, and we had plenty of people to send in, like mercenaries, to create chaos in Hydlaa. So why is it that everyone's able to get away with luring a monster into Hydlaa? Sure "evil" is a bad excuse in certain ways, but still, by doing this we gained quick reputation, yet half the things we did were against the rules according to Zayek...
If we can't send our own soldiers, rogues, thugs, whatever into some place, say as a job hiring, to raise hell in some place, and can't scam/steal from people, or do all these other things without getting banned, what's the point of there even being evil? As long as it's IC, I really don't see the problem. I know people who were evil IC, say Setill, but OOC they helped others and did all these things. So say, because we're evil, we wouldn't be nominated as people who could possibly become game masters and help out, hold events, and all these other things? Being evil IC completely makes you hated within the community, OOC and IC? That's stupid.
Right now I just want to know if luring's allowed or not. Back when I did it, it wasn't, so is it still that way?
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A few things to mention:
1. with the tribes system that will eventually be implemented, NPCs will act on their own (artificial) will. Meaning, a group of rogues may band together and enter a city to wreak some havoc.
2. the game is Alpha. Not all skills have been implemented yet, and yes, it sucks. But, you just have to kinda suck it up. Nope, you can't pickpocket, but eventually you will be able to. in the meantime, maybe you could plan something you will use in the future. Set up an alliance of evil guilds. Or start your own. The reputation you get from bringing strong creatures into a city is just a nusiance player more than an evil character. Anyways, if someone is so desperate for a reputation that they drag rogues into Hydlaa.. well.. that kinda says it all..
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Suno: Like I said in my previous post, it depends. Are there newbies around getting killed, complaining that people are making things very hard for them? If there are, luring will be stopped. Are newbies being protected by older players and having a blast too? Then it's okay.
A lot of rules change, Suno. Don't be upset over it - things that weren't allowed in the past could be allowed in the future because of other influencial changes. And more often than not, the changes are for the better. So why complain about something that you couldn't do before, that you may be able to do now? Go with it and have fun with the present.
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I would, but I no longer have any IC reason for this...and I'm tired of making 14 different characters for these things. I'd like to delete them all and start over as a newbie who knows nothing about the game again, but that's impossible...just doesn't have that feeling it did a year ago anymore.
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I think that luring beasts in town is OK. There is a bit of OOC in it if you just do it for the sake of doing it (as in let's bother those noobs)... but then if your character is completely chaotic I guess it is justified within their RP. However, I wish those behind it would do so they could create a diversion to steal/kill/kidnap/etc something else... that would be more interesting and IC-ly deeper.
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agreed Zhai, when Haag did it she did it to a group of "good" guys who kept killing her for speaking her mind.
Suno; i think invisibility in the future was in the release notes for the current version . . .
I am glad it is possible to do and that karyuu is not pooping on it :)
now zhai let us get together and come up with a badass rp that uses this in the manner you prescribe :)
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1) You cannot be held accountable for anything in Yliakum, there are no courts, laws, executives, or legislature. So people really have nothing to worry about.
2) Even if you could hold them liable, there is no proper punishment.
Kill them...... so what, they just spawn back....
3) The guards, currently arn't on duty, being that NPC's arn't working or responding, so I would RP them either Asleep or under some sort of Spell by a God.
Is it just me or does this describe bad RP based on not finished gamemechanics?
1. No laws, no courts? Ofcourse there are. RPwise you'll have to play they do exist and do respond seeing it's obvious from the setting we aren't living in a civilization who would be lacking those. Second OOC we have GMs and rules aswell so wrong on both counts
2. no proper punishment OOC I think you mean. As IC you could get any punishment humanly concievable not disallowed by the setting. OOC there are things like banning. So again wrong at both counts
3. Asleep or Spell by god? Thats just ridiculous. They are standing right there by the gate. Just becuase gamemechanics aren't advanced enough doesn't mean you can just ignore them in RP :P
All in all rather OOC viewpoints mixed in this "RP" view I have to say. Making the action itself rather OOC aswell and not RP evildoing.
1. Why not open your eyes a bit, EVEN in RP , WE DO NOT HAVE ANY COURTS!!! I mean come on, If we had courts, why not name off a Few Judges, What their latest rulings were, and What the punishments are.
Sure i've seen some trials, there are even a few threads on here, pics and all of trials, BUT those were created by a few people who wanted to RP with each other.
YLIAKUM ITSELF, has never RP'ed Courts, or judges, or cases, if these ever occured they were between a few players.
And GM's can only do so much, they don't ban at every problem because a BAn warrents a VERY VERY bad crime.
So what do you do, on the mediocre or average crimes, i'll list a few below.
2. THERE ARE no PROPER punishments! That's a FACT! In Character, if someone goes on a killing rampage, stealing 50 players rogues and also, challenging and killing a few players, WHAT WOULD WE DO TO HIM?
Kill him once? Is that equal to the Deaths and the Kill steals of the other 50? By the way, you cannot ban a player for that.
Or lets say someone joins a guild Secretly as an undercover operative for another guild, He rises in the Ranks, and Finally when he's LEvel 7 or 8, and he has the power to Remove players, He KICKS Them ALL OUT of the GUILD! ALL 100 or so Players, Except for like 5 who are his rank and higher who he cannot kick.
WHAT CAN WE DO IN CHARACTER!!!! WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING! Kill him? So what?
Does that fit the crime?
ARE THERE ANY OOC responses? NO. Banning, still would not be warrented because AGAIN he was in character and he was doing this for his guild secretly. And it's not that bad of a crime to warrent banning either.
There are VERY few things the GMS can really step in and fix. And Most things IN character NEVER fit the crime.
We have no official Courts. No Judges. No one to Make the Laws, No one to Enforce the Laws. WE don't have anyone to interpret them either.
We do not have a constituition, or a Bill of rights.
IF YOU truly want a court system, get together atleast 100 or 200 people in Planeshift and have them all meet, appoint presidents, judges, and Representatives.
HAve them decide all the laws.
Have them right them down. Then have them display them in Hydlaa, ojaveda, Mines, Arena, Oja road, Bd road, Bronze gates, EVERYWHERE!
Till then, it's just a few people making a few rules that arn't enforcable BY ANYONE!
3. O.k, Mister you think you are so smart and i'm stupid for RPing it that way.... HOW DO YOU, Rp it?
When you have people RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU who are not responding whatsoever, how do you RP that?
Lets say in real life , someone refused to respond to you and was stuck in one place, not moving. Would you think he was o.k? Ofcourse not!
THE NPC'S ARE NOT RESPONDING TO YOUR WORDS !!! There is a PROBLEM THERE, So therfore you either choose to feel they are o.k or you choose to feel they arn't.
It's obvious they arn't o.k and I rp it that way, I'm sorry you didn't think to RP the same way.
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Datruth, caps are rude - you don't want to "yell" in a discussion with someone, so don't use them. People read and people will get your point without you appearing as if you need a breath and a time-out.
1. Why not open your eyes a bit, EVEN in RP , WE DO NOT HAVE ANY COURTS!!! I mean come on, If we had courts, why not name off a Few Judges, What their latest rulings were, and What the punishments are.
People have RPed courts, judges, and punishments since years ago. There have been divorce cases, property cases, criminal cases (even recently) and players have all made this possible themselves and had a blast. Someone else will have to fill in your details - such as names and exact punishments - but I can tell you for a definite fact that such things happened.
Sure i've seen some trials, there are even a few threads on here, pics and all of trials, BUT those were created by a few people who wanted to RP with each other.
Is there a different scenario? People are generally level-headed enough to roleplay together, discuss some possibilities OOC, and come to an agreed-upon conclusion for an event which they then act out.
YLIAKUM ITSELF, has never RP'ed Courts, or judges, or cases, if these ever occured they were between a few players.
Yliakum is only two cities, a fortress, and some hills right now - just because the world isn't complete however, doesn't mean that everything needs to be put on hold.
2. THERE ARE no PROPER punishments! That's a FACT! In Character, if someone goes on a killing rampage, stealing 50 players rogues and also, challenging and killing a few players, WHAT WOULD WE DO TO HIM?
Nobody "steals Rogues" in-character. That situation is impossible from the start. As for challenging and killing players, it is very possible to corner/surround that character by a large force and roleplay it out. If someone is god-RPing and no solution is possible, you refer that player to a GM or call a GM over and let them have a talk on how to make the game both fair and fun for all sides. Generally, evil characters need to realize that they are not invincible. If they think they are, it's time for an OOC talk.
Kill him once? Is that equal to the Deaths and the Kill steals of the other 50? By the way, you cannot ban a player for that.
Then there are no just punishments in real life either, and your argument falls apart.
Or lets say someone joins a guild Secretly as an undercover operative for another guild, He rises in the Ranks, and Finally when he's LEvel 7 or 8, and he has the power to Remove players, He KICKS Them ALL OUT of the GUILD! ALL 100 or so Players, Except for like 5 who are his rank and higher who he cannot kick.
That's more abuse and less roleplaying. You wouldn't be able to "kick anyone out" of a guild without their agreement - it's a problem with game mechanics more than anything I would think. Regardless, those kicked out players can again challenge, kill, roleplay together, and if god-RPing rears its ugly head again, call in a GM mediator. But there are ways of fighting fire with fire too - let the world know what happened, spread hatred of those who took over, win allies, fight back, etc.
And then, what of those 5 players who are his rank and higher? Won't they restore the order that was before?
3. O.k, Mister you think you are so smart and i'm stupid for RPing it that way.... HOW DO YOU, Rp it?
When you have people RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU who are not responding whatsoever, how do you RP that?
First, chill pill. Second, if people aren't responding to you... why even bother? Are they roleplaying at all? Are they interfering with your game, but don't acknowledge your responses? That's an OOC issue - call a GM, again.
Lets say in real life , someone refused to respond to you and was stuck in one place, not moving. Would you think he was o.k? Ofcourse not!
Bugs happen in this game - they are OOC, so deal with them OOC. People fall from cliffs, run back from the Death Realm, and continue their roleplay as if nothing happened. People get stuck, use /unstick, and continue. So what? This isn't an issue at all.
THE NPC'S ARE NOT RESPONDING TO YOUR WORDS !!! There is a PROBLEM THERE, So therfore you either choose to feel they are o.k or you choose to feel they arn't.[/
It's obvious they arn't o.k and I rp it that way, I'm sorry you didn't think to RP the same way.
I'm sorry that it looks like you think your roleplay is the epitome of how people should act. Roleplay that the NPCs respond. One time when I was with Nilaya and Netrhys, we "brought over" an NPC and pretended he was right there next to us helping with a small task. Use your imagination Datruth.
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Again in my opinion bad Rp and looking at it wrongly.
Do I know the name of the octarch? No but does this mean the octarch doesn't exist? That I should just ignore his presence in RP? No ofcourse not.
What can you do when someone isn't roleplaying right? I mean come on haven't we just HAD several of those threads? I mean read the thread about godRPing and you'll see that this isn't a new concern. Does this mean the people who do that are in the right? Ofcourse not. It simply means the GMs can't be holding everyones hand every second of the way.
Stealing kills in my opinon is OOC behavior. It's taking advantage of the gamemechanics that noone can do anything aslong as you got in the first hit. I can hardly call that IC crimes so how can I give someone like that who isn't roleplaying at all a IC punishment?
The guild example the same. It's taking advantage of gamemechanics in my opinion, but in this case I am sure the GMs would be a lot more helpfull in atleast restoring the guild then you are letting on here.
We have no official Courts. No Judges. No one to Make the Laws, No one to Enforce the Laws. WE don't have anyone to interpret them either.
We do not have a constituition, or a Bill of rights.
Again yes we do or something similar. Just like the octarch you haven't gotten information about what exactly they are like and how they are called but the setting explains enough to know they are there and roleplaying means following the setting. Not following the setting is by default bad RP. Specially if it's done by choice even.
Bugs are again OOC aswell
How do I roleplay something like the guard for example? Well lets see my latest incident was when I met someone who had been a witness to a murder. Both me and the person in question didn't do bad RP so I ended up dragging her to the guards office and seeing noone was there to the guards at the gates and we Rped she was then questioned by the guards.
Is it easy? No. Does it mean sometimes you have to use a lot of imagination to pull it of and people who also roleplay correctly? yes.
Is it as impossible as you make it seem? A hardfelt NO
Seems Karyuu beat me to it. Read her post first and have to agree with almost everything about it, although ignoring the person is often a better choice then getting in a GM.
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My whole point for all this was simple, if you want courts create them.
I don't think little groups here and there creating courts really does well.
If you truly want to establish a justice system, why not go ahead and enroll people as permenent judges, who can be seen for these matters.
Why not create some sort of constitution.
I can just as easily ask a judge that was just created by a group of players, "Who appointed you?" "What were your previous rulings?" "What are the laws?"
"Are you the only judge? If not then who else are judges? Where is the highest court?"
Most people RP courts incorrectly in my opinion, there is no backstory whatsoever.
The judge is just picked out of no where and they have a trial.
That's not realistic, that's not how it happened before, and they had established courts.
We do not have established courts or laws, and untill we do, no court created by a group of players can RP it correctly.
Our punishments are few in number, besides death, what else can we do?
We can't even force them to Die. We can't force them to give up money?
What if they decide to run away and have their name changed by a GM?
I mean we need more punishments that fit the crimes.
And I believe i roleplayed the NPC's properly, they were not speaking back, and so i felt they were under a spell of some sort.
I feel it worked out for the best and it was more realistic and imagining that they were responding.
~~Datruth
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I don't think little groups here and there creating courts really does well.
Why not? It has worked since Molecular Blue, if not before even that.
If you truly want to establish a justice system, why not go ahead and enroll people as permenent judges, who can be seen for these matters.
For the reason that the public doesn't elect judges in Yliakum, and doesn't make up official rules. For little crimes (crimes that don't shake up the entire world right now) private courts work fine. What problems have you personally run into during your roleplay?
Why not create some sort of constitution.
The power stems from the Octarch who already has all the rules - and that's for the Settings team to take care of. Players don't have any clue as to what will be officially created in the future that may go against their "home-made" constitutions. It won't last, and many will fight against it for these very reasons. Again though, small private "courts" that rule over single scenarios work fine for people.
I can just as easily ask a judge that was just created by a group of players, "Who appointed you?" "What were your previous rulings?" "What are the laws?"
"Are you the only judge? If not then who else are judges? Where is the highest court?"
Please do. Have you tried this?
Most people RP courts incorrectly in my opinion, there is no backstory whatsoever.
And here is where you are grossly mistaken, and really require asking those previous questions of yours. How many courts have you attended in-game, and really know details about?
What in your opinion would be fair punishment that would fit some of the crimes that you have given as examples? What would an official court, ruled by either players or NPCs and game mechanics do in such situations?
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Players need to hold their characters accountable for their actions while participating in RP (which should be pretty much all their time IG). That means that if you RP a thief or a murderer, you can't just walk like any other John Doe down the street. There are guards, there are witnesses and part of your roleplay is to acknowledge the very laws you are breaking. Otherwise you're just a punk. If you don't know the limits of your character's mischiefs you may step too far and break OOC Rules, which would lead to OOC punishments (/mute, ban, etc.).
I think we don't have as many evil characters as we could because some player have a really hard time telling the difference between IC and OOC, and that's sad. A character steals something (redundantly) IC (RPing he's a thief). He's doing his part so the others can have fun too. Don't pester him with /tells or /report him just because you think he's cheating or something, you gotta play your part as well or stay out of it but don't kill the RP if you can't tell it it's an IC crime or an OOC problem.
And if someone drags a monster to town knowing that they will not be facing any IC consequences because they are not RP anything in particular at the time is only poor RP (and it's their problem, no RP to get involved with in the first place). You see an ulber at the plaza, well, react IC (that's the best you can do). Don't get all mad OOC thinking "great, I'm not done buying training from Harnquist!", that is poor RP too. If you're a warrior and capable of killing an ulber you'll do it. If you're not you'll keep a safe distance. And if you're a newcomer (and you're reading this): There is no such thing as Ulberfest or Ulberpride Parade in Yliakum, so please run.
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"And here is where you are grossly mistaken, and really require asking those previous questions of yours. How many courts have you attended in-game, and really know details about?
What in your opinion would be fair punishment that would fit some of the crimes that you have given as examples? What would an official court, ruled by either players or NPCs and game mechanics do in such situations?"
I've only attended one case, which was held at the top of Laanx Temple, in the room with the two big orbs.
I think currently, the game mechanics DO NOT allow proper punishments.
I hope GM's have the power to deduct money from Players accounts, if they don't, then a few select GM's should get that privelage.
When someone has committed a robery of some sort, they will be held accountable by the Official Yliakum Court, With Official judges, and an Official constitution.
When told guilty, Money will be taken out of the persons Account.
If the person has committed many murders and such, He will be Teleported by a GM to a secure Jail and there he will wait for a period of time.
In this Jail like location, he cannot kill himself and he cannot move. Basically he won't be able to do anything untill his sentance is complete.
And if you do a very bad crime like Kicking all the members of a guild out, you will be Suspended from the game for a certain period of time. Probably a Year.
If you RP that you are raping a women, you will be banned.
In all cases, we need official judges, official constituitions, and help from the Gm's.
Then Yliakum might not be a Wild Wild West like city, where you can do anything you want and get away with it.
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Maybe we should wait for something like this until more content is introduced? I hardly think that any "murders" committed at this time warrant being punished by a GM in a jail. I think that players are very capable of dealing with such situations on their own right now - and only if there is an OOC issue should they ask for a GM's help. You have a much too strict mentality for a game only at version 0.3.
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It's more realistic to roleplay problems caused by gamemechanics then to act as if they don't exist becuse if Yliakum would really exist there wouldn't be gamemechanics?
I do get your point Datruth but I don't feel you are listening to my point
Roleplaying is playing a part. In Planeshift this means you have to play someone who is actually in Yliakum for real. Trying to create stories with others to come as close as possible to this living in another world.
And in this world there are octarchs and there are laws and there are judges. Criminals do get caught by the guard and they do get punishment. In this world a word such as gamemechanics may not even exist let alone effect people. This is the true goal in my opinon besides having fun during the process obviously.
So I know it is hard and sometimes you have to stretch things a bit to make things fit and people playing officials is always hard to incorporate, but don't let the people using OOC means to get away wth things make you doubt your own possibilities within the realm of roleplaying.
Read your last post Datruth and I really think you are blending IC crimes and OOC crimes and IC punishment and OOC punishment. GMs taking in money for IC crimes? See thats something you should never have to want. GMs shouldn't have to judge IC crimes. GMs are there to judge OOC breaking of the rules.You shouldn't punish the player for playing an evil person like the jailtime you propose. Why would the player need to be punished for an IC crime? Aslong as he isn't godRPing and leaves people a fair chance to catch him he didn't break any rules.
PS: please don't play an expert and in such general terms if you only visited one such trail as there have been many. Not saying all were succeses, but would expect someone to visit more the one before ccalling it ALL a sham.
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I hope GM's have the power to deduct money from Players accounts, if they don't, then a few select GM's should get that privelage.
When someone has committed a robery of some sort, they will be held accountable by the Official Yliakum Court, With Official judges, and an Official constitution.
When told guilty, Money will be taken out of the persons Account.
If the person has committed many murders and such, He will be Teleported by a GM to a secure Jail and there he will wait for a period of time.
In this Jail like location, he cannot kill himself and he cannot move. Basically he won't be able to do anything untill his sentance is complete.
And if you do a very bad crime like Kicking all the members of a guild out, you will be Suspended from the game for a certain period of time. Probably a Year.
If you RP that you are raping a women, you will be banned.
These are all good examples of how OOC is imposed based on RP and it is not good. Don't you see you are punishing good players for their good RP? There is no way to steal, murder or rape IC without a previous agreement between the players. You can walk away from a thief trying to RP they pick your pocket, walk through the rapist or decline a challenge if you don't want to be part of it. However if RP leads to that and is played that way, there should be no OOC punishment. Yes, there should be some sort of punishment IC, but all your suggestions will only make people stay away from the idea of ever playing a slightly evil character and that would kill the game.
OOC misconduct is punished OOC and it has always been dealt with. That's why we have the /report <name> command and other ways... and it's still misused! We don't need more confusion. What we need is agreement! If you do something bad IC, face the consequences: you won't have friends, you will have to RP the life of a runnaway or a convict, those around you will frown at you or attack you verbally or physically but all that is part of RP. We all have a part to play: either we RP being evil and commit "crimes" (bringing something interesting for others to enjoy) or we RP being good and lawful and therefore react to the criminals accordingly. But one thing is OOC bad and another thing is IC bad.
Edit: Oh, balls... Pestilence was faster... sorry if this ended up being redundant but i'll RP i'm a deaf NPC just this once ;D
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Basically, this is what i got from your posts:
OOC crimes, will be dealt with by the GM's.
In character crimes will be dealt with By the players, and we will Pretend that there is a court system, and using this pretend court system we will Pretend to punish them.
Hope i got that right.
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Let's just say there's no need to punish RP. We need to keep it consistent thus we RP a punishment... like hiding the character for a while or limiting their actions or something. The punishment though is not the point but the source of entertainment: if we have an execution, for instance, it is something fun to watch and be involved with. It is an IC punishment and it's enjoyed by all.
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A good roleplayer will take the punishment on themselves, rather than needing one imposed. If not, there is one puishment that can be done right now by players (and sometimes is), and is far worse than any other, in my mind.
Excommunication. Do not speak, nor even acknowledge the existance of a character. Play that they are locked up somewhere. This is not Bad RP if someone commits an IC crime, then expects to be able to walk around the next day as if nothing happened.
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This is the tye of thing that could be implemented into an alignment system which bases on your actions.
Leading an ulbernuaght into town would get you outlawed from that town and if you were to pass through the gates the guards would attack you on sight.
If there were arches on the wall or somthing they would fire at you if you got within a certain range of the city. All ther merchant will not bargain with such a disgracefull person so you cant buy thing from harniquest or the pub etc.
This provides a good incentive not to try this sort of thing because not being able to do anything in town can get rather annoying.
For the meantime thats not going to happen.
Maybe a GM would step in and roleplay for a sec, put a price on said players head and give them an open PVP flag until they are fund and killed.....
I'm not entirly sure, that doesnt really seem to do much justic but....
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I dont get it, i understand roleplaying but punishing yourself through role playing isnt really part of role playing or others punishing you, just seems like there are no laws that way and it has nothign much to do with roleplaying. I dont know anymore, i read of things that are gonna be implemented but now it seems tha people are saying punishments and laws fixd into the game mechanics have no need.
And having to agree with fighting a player is a bit lame if that is how it is, its liek you are moving away from reality of how things work in real life and more into a staged theatrical play or soem kind off scripted programing language world.
I dont know what the hell this game is about or its goals or anything anymore.
ah well who cares
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We should RP as if there were specific laws. They have not been disclosed to testers now, but they are in the agenda of the devs. Yes, it's true that not everyone will take that into account when they choose to commit RP crimes, yet when we RP around certain limits (like having a set of laws), I particularly find it to be a better and richer RP. As I said in a previous post, evil aligned characters should take the existence of the laws as part of their RP because they are going to break them, that makes their characters true outlaws, thieves, bandits, murderers... The notion of "murder", for instance, is different from "killing" because the first is defined as a crime, while the latter just an action that is abstracted from the concept of society and its consequences.
Can you drag a monster in town and get away with it? Yes. Can you RP that you poison someone in front of 20 people and then act like nothing happened when they know you just committed murder? Yes. Should you? Should the 20 people just let go? Well, that depends on how serious the murderer takes his actions. Both parts need to see the crimes as something they have to consider seriously.
Maybe I'm being too serious about it but I still think we can't just turn a blind eye in these situations because we're missing a good opportunity for interesting RP. I think that evil characters are defined by their evil actions. If these actions have no consequence, there's no real evil, thus no real good.
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Should you punish yourself for a crime?
No you shouldn't, but if you RP a crime you need to RP how your character would react to it and what happens after that. You as a player needs to think about what would happen to your character.
Do you starve when you don't eat ingame right now/ No but I think everyone agrees it would be bad RP to say youu haven't eaten or drank anything for months. Same with when you are roleplaying a thief and you get caught. Will the guards really go after you in the game? No but it would be bad RP to stand next to them and do little dances or something and expect the guards to not react ingame.
Becuase the AI isn't evolved enough and there is no Dungeon Master who tells you how the guards act it is upon yourself to keep the guards and how they would act basicly in your RP. That is why for example as a evil person who has been caught you should RP that you are hiding from the guards becuase they would normally take you into custody and your character doesn't like going to prison.
Again no you can't really go to prison ingame ofcourse but this is just becuase the game isn't that far so your character should still act as if he can becuase, eventhough you as a player can't go there, RPwise your character can.