PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Nilrem on September 14, 2006, 11:04:01 pm
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Hello,
this will be a comment about how GM applications seem to be handled, currently. The main aim of this thread, it's just me asking for one thing to be done. The reader might want to skip the following paragrahps to know what it is, or keep reading normally if there's no will to break the classic reading rules.
I'll try to point out obvious points, I am not here to patent anything.
In the first place, I'd like to remark that everyone that applies for the GM team, does that with the aim of helping. That is, a "community member" decides that he/she might be of use as a GM; some players would like to have always a GM online, and some have the feeling that the GM team is not as large as it should be. Said someone, then decides to make the step, and offers himself/herself for the task.
This thread's not to talk about what GM requirements or functions are, but rather to remark a thing that should be prevented from happening, as it harms the community. Every GM candidate goes through a series of steps, to ensure that he/she is capable of being assigned a GM state. Nothing wrong with that, in fact, this is how things have to be.
Now to the point of this thread:
During that process, some candidates are rejected. It's normal, for various things, one could not fulfill one or more of the requirements needed to be a GM. Anyway, rejections should always come with a reason. That is, stating what was left to achieve. This is not only a matter of politeness, it's also positive for the whole community in at least, two ways:
The first of them: The candidate then knows where he/she is failing, and can try to work harder on that area, if he/she whishes to try to apply again in the near future.
The second: If no reason's mentioned, then the candidate might become annoyed. This might be debated, yes in the real world you can find yourself in this situation, being rejected with no reason given at all. But we've the chance (and the aim) of collaboration in here (this planeshift project) the current GM members are, after all, players or members of the community. The same one where the candidate belongs to. Showing then enough concern as to point out to those candidates the reason of their rejection, would not only allow them to try to improve in that area, but would prevent also, at the same time, future rants and bad feelings due to that reject.
I really think that doing that gesture is not that hard, nor represents that much of an effort, and it prevents an extraordinary mutation that, nowadays, is prone to happen:
Candidate begins the application selection process with a positive will of helping the whole project, and ends it dissapointed and annoyed towards that same project that moments ago wanted to help to become bigger and greater.
A 180 degree change in just few minutes, preventable with a short sentence.
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We always give reasons when it comes to rejection. They may not always be reasons the applicant agrees with, but we never just brush someone off with a "No."
I'm curious as to what prompted this thread.
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Perhaps he is referring to the process of becoming a Dev.
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I don't see why it would be named "GM applications" then.
If someone's application to the dev team is directly rejected, it generally means that your skills need some more work before you can contribute. Current team members unfortunately don't have time to write back-and-forth critiques, but posting example work in the community forums here often brings a ton of feedback.
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hmmm believe I commented about this in another thread already. Depends on what you call a reason for rejection I guess.
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I'm guessing he tried to apply for the team and got rejected in this way. Hard to tell.
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As I said, such GM rejections do not happen.
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wonder if I'll get rejected x]
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Did you send some cookies Karyuu's way yet? ;)
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no, but I've sent a memoserv apology to Bakuun :sweatdrop:
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Dev rejections are great though, they mean you don't have to log onto nexus anymore lol.
I mean a dev rejection, is 100 times better than waiting on nexus idle.
Not sure if it's like that for GM applications, maybe those go by quicker. :lol:
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This is one of those cases when someone (me) tries to type something as clear as possible, and, despite of that, somehow it's misunderstood.
I appreciate Under The Moon efforts to try to understand my post, and wondering if I was talking about developers instead of game masters. In any case, I think I did not mention developers in my post, and if someone tries to switch every GM reference for developer word in my text, I think that the post becomes (even more?) confusing.
While the thread purpose is answered right since the first reply, there have been other replies later on, I gave answer to Under The Moon one, and I feel I still have to give one to Suno_Regin and Pestilence, this will be done, though in my answer to the first reply, which is the one that really addresses the topic.
We never just brush someone off with a "No."
I'm curious as to what prompted this thread.
When you ask what prompted this thread, I thought of two possibilities. What lead me to write this in the first place, and what lead me to put it on the forums instead of using the Private Message system to know about this.
The reason I wrote this, is because while talking about various topics with someone, at a moment the talk lead to how people wants to be a GM and they're rejected. I've never started any process to be a GM (in reply to Suno_Regin) nor developer for that matter, so I don't know first hand how those processes are. Then again, said person I was talking to, deserves enough trust to me as to believe in what was being said. The impression I got was that the candidates where "brushed with a No" instead of giving them a reason about their rejection. Since it seemed obvious to me that this was not the correct way to handle those applications, I made the thread. I'm happy to say that I must have misunderstood the conversation at some point, since it's been stated that the process is handled in the correct way. It really could not be otherwise.
Answering my second question, I'll say that I posted this publicly, instead of dealing this with PM, because it was not a thing affecting me directly, and because if I had this impression, nothing tells me that others might have not had the same (false) impression, and thus, the topic needed to be addressed publicly, so a public reply was given, and everyone had this reference at hand, as to know that the rejected ones are given the reasons of their non-acceptance. In reply to Pestilence, the fact that there was a thread where this was already commented, comes to state that there was confusion about this before (I really haven't searched for that thread, so I don't know if it talks about the exact same thing I'm talking here, if that's the case, sorry for this thread)
As a final note, even if it was not the purpose of this thread, I feel that, same as in GM application, if someone applies to the developer team, process that I think it's done with mails and a portfolio of the work done, etc. In cases when such petitions aren't considered spam, the candidate should recieve if even a premade e-mail, so at least he/she knows that it was analyzed. Something such as:
"After reviewing your referenced portfolio, the team feels you don't meet the required conditions as to join the developers."
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That is something that will always be a problem for as long as Talad remains the only person responsible for this process, as with many others: such as the upkeep of the website and posting of news, PR issues, and all of the major duties that comes with being a Project Leader, on top of the fact that he, too, is a volunteer with a busy work/life schedule. In order for all of these areas to function as they should, it would be best to allow someone else to handle the smaller duties. That way it will not be "too much to ask" for personalised responses to applicants to the Dev or GM teams, or more frequent news updates for the community. As it stands, Talad cannot be expected to do all of these things, as he has so little free time already.
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Nilrem, your words were very eloquent and while the post seems very long, i felt it was very pithy.
Great post bro, you made a good point, there should be some sort of explanation given, or even an email that states that their portfolio is being reviewed.
But as santiago says, 1 man can't handle said job and thus the system slows down a bit.
I don't think anyone is in any hurry to add any new devs or GM's, more focused on updates.
Whether that's good or bad is up to the community.
Great post Nilrem.
~~Datruth
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so I don't know first hand how those processes are.
The process is as following
you apply as a gm uyaem is the person to talk to for this as he's the gm team's leader... if you can't apply at every gm...
then it will be posted in the gm forums and the gm team will have to accept or decline this.
then there's the interview with talad
and then there's some guides and something else to read if i remember correctly =)
Hope this helped
-Peacer
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You can actually contact any GM about an application. The GMs then review the application and decide whether or not to send the applicant to Talad for an interview. The reason all applicants aren't interviewed is because, as Santiago alluded to, Talad is a very busy man. If you pass the interview with Talad, you're on the team. And yes, then you have to read stuff, but that's just part of your training. :P
As for the issue you mention, Nilrem, we try to provide reasons with every rejection: that's our policy. However, we make mistakes sometimes. It may have been that the person informing the applicant was busy with other things at the time, and thus distracted, or perhaps tired, etc. We may be GMs, but we're still human. To any applicants we may have failed to inform of the reason for your rejection: I apologize on the behalf of the GM team. If you are still interested in the reason for your rejection, shoot me a PM and I'll tell you to the best of my knowledge. And remember, if you are rejected, that doesn't mean you can never be a GM. Give it a few months. Play the game and work on roleplay. Then apply again. And even if you never get on the team, it isn't the end of the world.
We're always looking for new GMs, but we need to make sure the team is top-notch. We consider a lot of criteria when reviewing an application (though we have no formal list, sorry!). Our decisions are not arbitrary. Please understand that our goal is not to create an elitist organization, but to provide the best service we can to the players. We're in this for you!
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My suggestion is to become a advisor 24/7 then you have better chances of being a GM. Thats what im doing.
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it doesn't raise your chances, it just gives the GM team an insight to how you deal with problems and different kinds of people asking various questions.
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it doesn't raise your chances, it just gives the GM team an insight to how you deal with problems and different kinds of people asking various questions.
How does one become an advisor anyways?
I've never seen anything about it.
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commands are in the help sextion under user commands.
/advisormode on/of - activiates or deactivates advisor mode
/advice <name> without context claims an advice session
/advice <name> <info they need here> answers their question
however, dont tell them trainers, quest hints, etc,