PlaneShift
Fan Area => The Hydlaa Plaza => Topic started by: Baldur on September 18, 2006, 07:44:49 am
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[Rant]
People have done it again. People have amazed me with their stupidity. There was a national election and guess what happened in MY community, a racistic party was the third biggest party in the the community. When will this end, when will people stop making mistakes over and over and over again.
Din't they know that it was the german people that brought the power to Hitler through their ignorance and stupidity, their jealousy towards the "people" jews. Did they not know that it gave Hitler power to raze the governement and spew out racistic propaganda. Did they know that humans, HUMANS, were systematically murdered in concentration camps just becxause of their belief.
This saddens me and angers me that racism is on the raise in this once beautiful country. Just because of fear we build ourselves these walls and wait for our blood to be pure. Do we not know that under our 10.000 year journey to this "promised" land we mixed with everyone, every "people", every "tribe" whatever you want to call it. We thrived.
[/Rant]
In lack of time i'll have to quit this, but remember, never let ignorance cover your eyes. Read, question.
"What had the jews done to deserve this?"
"Nothing."
"What had our countrymen with a different face structure done, then?"
"Nothing at all. Their hair color just bugged us so we just murdered them or deported them. Whatever."
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I share your saddness in this area my friend.
In the growing acceptance of free speach, it sickens me to learn of just how many share these views.
It reminds me of something i heard once, it goes something like this
"I Disagree totaly in your racist statment, but i will fight to the death for your right to say it"
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In my country you can vote on a pedophile party (that's no joke)
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The saying is "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it", and is attributed to the French writer and philosopher Voltaire.
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what did the party say?? like... they weren't staright out racists were they?? what were some of their goals?
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I'm glad you share my opinion I am very sad about the current development in right extremist-groups. I have heard many stupid comments about immigrants in my school. Completely ignorant yet hurtful.
Concerning yuor question, Haanz: They've often spoken of a "clean" nation and none of their party members are colored. One year ago they posted a picture of a meatgrinder grinding colored people while two whites escape.
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The saying is "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it", and is attributed to the French writer and philosopher Voltaire.
Thanks Santiago
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I agree with Santiago. Jekkar is right that in our country we have a pedophile party, we even had a Maoistic party once and we have a party that wants the Muslim Law (Sharia) to become our law system. I even think we're the country with the most political parties. Though lots of people oppose our system, there even was some discussion in the European Union about the pedophile party, I think the system is great. Those people will never get in the government anyway, as no one will vote on them.
Democracy :)
Too bad in a democracy it's necessary that the people are actually smart, or else you get stuff like in Baldur's country.
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dan baldur where you from? and a paedophile party? that's shattered my 'the netherlands is a paradise' opinion i had, damn i used to holiday there 10 times a year
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Hey, the Netherlands are still a paradise!
The whole pedophile party thing makes two things clear:
-We allow people to make parties for whatever they like, like a real democracy. Even pedophile parties.
-Our people aren't stupid enough to actually vote on those parties.
-Our people don't censor what they don't like.
What's "not paradise" about that?
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I dunno, maybe it's just me but i have issues with people who are openly child abusers not only being alowed to walk free but also to run for office.
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you know what agent k said it best.
a person is calm intelligent and logical. people a panicy, dumb and emotional.
democray is the greatest proof of this statement.
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What is it that makes them racist?
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Too bad in a democracy it's necessary that the people are actually smart, or else you get stuff like in Baldur's country.
No offence, but that is a Statment loaded with Predjudice.
You think that only people who live in a democracy are intelligent ?
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dan baldur where you from? and a paedophile party? that's shattered my 'the netherlands is a paradise' opinion i had, damn i used to holiday there 10 times a year
Sweden, unfortunately -.-*is ashamed of his country*
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Don't ever be ashamed of Sweden, Yngwie Malmsteen is all i gotta say......
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You're not the one living here. ;-/ I don't know what will happen to the country but I hope people will get their heads out of their *sses and start seeing through other's eyes. Swedes have a high jealousy against rich newcomers, don't ask me why, it's just one of those completely useless traits we have.
Yes, i'm blaiming MY people. I don't want to be part of any People, I want humans to unite. I don't want to live on a petty island.
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@Vengeance-- hah I asked that same question... baldur answered it up there.
@Laragorn-- I don't think that's what he meant at all... I'm pretty sure he meant that if you have a democracy where intelligent people are not in abundance, then wierd, and in some people's oppinions stupid, things will happen... take for example Baldur's home country, Sweden, where they have a racist party.
of course I could be wrong?... :sweatdrop:
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@Laragorn-- I don't think that's what he meant at all... I'm pretty sure he meant that if you have a democracy where intelligent people are not in abundance, then wierd, and in some people's oppinions stupid, things will happen... take for example Baldur's home country, Sweden, where they have a racist party.
Of course I could be wrong?... :sweatdrop:
Exactly, but that wasn't my point. People can become smart by reading Books, interacting with the world. What bugs me is most don't bother.
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No offence, but that is a Statment loaded with Predjudice.
You think that only people who live in a democracy are intelligent ?
You completely misinterpreted my remark.
I meant that for a democracy to work well, you need intelligent people. If the people of a country don't think for themselves, but only vote on the party with the nicest slogan or the most handsome leader (you know lots of people do that), you're living in a fake democracy. A true democracy needs smart people, that's what I meant.
People can become smart by reading Books, interacting with the world. What bugs me is most don't bother.
Indeed, that's why I'm so surprised some countries keep cutting in their education budgets so they can make their "defense" budget bigger.
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This link seems to show people pretty happy that this party won:
http://www.publiuspundit.com/?p=2926
It also says that mostly younger people voted for them due to their concern about unemployment and taxation. Those seem like reasonable issues to vote for to me.
- Vengeance
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...a racistic party was the third biggest party...
I don't think Baldur has a problem with the winners... It's the guys in third place. ;)
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No offence, but that is a Statment loaded with Predjudice.
You think that only people who live in a democracy are intelligent ?
You completely misinterpreted my remark.
I meant that for a democracy to work well, you need intelligent people. If the people of a country don't think for themselves, but only vote on the party with the nicest slogan or the most handsome leader (you know lots of people do that), you're living in a fake democracy. A true democracy needs smart people, that's what I meant.
Understood, and agreed.
/me slowly pulls foot from mouth
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The new party ruling this day is a swift wind from the old government ruled by the long favored Social Democrats. They started to stuffed up and say nothing was wrong with this country when 50% where out of work, immigrants were still treated inhumanely, certain "neighbourhood" were set up for immigrants were violence was often inevitable among the groups, this situation was starting to better and hopefully will keep getting better with the Moderats in the lead and the rest of the "Alliance" the liberal parties have established.
To be honest, Goran Persson, the Socialdemocrat's party leader, was beginning to sound like a dictator, playing on our patriotism and saying everything's fine, we have a great country, we don't need to worry, the Socialdemocrats will manage this fine. Of course, the Socialdemocrats had built up Sweden's wellfair, but not with Goran Persson.
Back to the Sweden Democrats, which this party I despise are called. Hopefully the parties will begin to discuss with the Sweden democrats how they will handle this, in the political scene they're complete political rookies and will hopefully not last for long if the Alliance don't leave the people out. The theory is that the Sweden democrats have built their base on displeasement and anger and the parties should take care of this by discussing with the Sweden democrats, integrating them into the political society instead of leaving them out, ignored and continously ignorant, otherwise they will pick more votes from angry people too stupid to know what they will do to other people if this party's elected into the government.
This sickens me... I think i'm going to move to Holland when I get the chance.
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I say we all move to Canada. They got plenty of land, I'm sure the folks up there wouldn't mind the company. Nothing but good comes out of Canada, except maybe Celine Dion, but then again, nobody's perfect.
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hah us Kanucks don't like to talk about her... ::)
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heh, it's scary that more people are voting for the BNP in the UK. They are the UK version of the Nazi party.
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yep i agree xordan, i see a lot of bnp representatives around these days with a lot of support building all the time. I think the obvious reason is all the terrorism, it gives the bnp a real target for their bigotry and allows them to feed off the fear of others. Not much we can do about it directly though, i'm just gonna keep campaigning for lib dem, and hope for the best lol.
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/me feels his stomach turn
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Our political scene is close to Sweden’s, we have the "race" parties, we have "sex" parties(no not that kind of party ), we have communist, Stalin parties, and the regular left and right wing parties. I left out many because I don’t have an hour to type. Living in a free society allows anyone the right to be heard, no matter their views or goals. I can only laugh at the uninformed views of some of these groups; otherwise I would be empowering them by taking their views seriously.
[Rant] Our laws have been bent and rewritten to accommodate the newcomers. What once was a strong free nation; we have become a wish-wash of people pleasers. In the last 50 years our immigration laws have been rewritten many times, to accept more and more people. In many of our large cities non-immigrants are the minority. Our ever so patriotic politicians see this, and change our laws to suite the new demographic, so they will get more votes. They ignore our customs and traditions that made this country, and replace it with those of our new citizens.
we even had a Maoistic party once and we have a party that wants the Muslim Law (Sharia) to become our law system. I even think we're the country with the most political parties. Though lots of people oppose our system, there even was some discussion in the European Union about the pedophile party, I think the system is great. Those people will never get in the government anyway, as no one will vote on them.
The same happens here in Canada. If I were to move to another country, I would follow there laws and customs. I wouldn’t try to change them to my old countries laws. Why would anyone move to a country whose laws they hated, and try to change it to that of a country they disliked so much that they had to leave? This rings true, the old adage “When in Rome…”. [End rant]
Don’t get me wrong here, I love diversity. I have no malice or ill will towards any single race. I do have a problem with anyone who tries to change Canada into a mirror of another county.
On second thought, I will list the political parties we have in Canada.
The main parties:
Conservative Party
Green Party
Liberal Party
New Democratic Party
Bloc Québécois
The other registered parties:
Animal Alliance Environment Voters Party of Canada
Alberta First Party
Alberta Equity Party
Alberta Independence Party
Alberta Social Credit Party
British Columbia Social Credit Party
British Columbia Party
Canadian Party
Canadian Action Party
Canadian Extreme Wrestling Party
Canadian Alliance
Cannabis Canada Party
Christian Heritage Party of Canada
Communist Party of Canada
Communist Party of Canada (Marxist-Leninist)
Confederation of Regions
Family Coalition Party of British Columbia
Family Coalition Party of Ontario
First Peoples National Party of Canada
Freedom Party of Ontario
Humanist Party
Libertarian Party
Marijuana Party
Marxist-Leninist Party of Canada
New Canada Party
The Natural Law Party
Nova Scotia Party
Progressive Canadian Party
Reform Party
Rhinocerous Party
Progressive Democratic Alliance of British Columbia
Saskatchewan Party
Saskatchewan Party Caucus
Socialist Alternative
Socialist Party of Canada
Western Block Party
Western Canada Concept
The Yukon Party
I Think Celine Dion is actually from France and she was smuggled in as a child :P
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hahah jeeze... I better catch up on my Canadian history...or just... pay more attention to politics! ubt that's hard being in Japan. Now, here is where i'd talk about Japan's parties, if I knew about them... but sadly i pay less attention to politics here than I did in Canada... 'course I'm enojoying this thread!! :thumbup: :sweatdrop:
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Get, integrated :P
That's what's the main problem is. people decline to get integrated(some, i'm not blaiming everyone). The question is, stricter immigration laws or stronger integration laws. I vote for the last.
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[Rant] Our laws have been bent and rewritten to accommodate the newcomers. What once was a strong free nation; we have become a wish-wash of people pleasers. In the last 50 years our immigration laws have been rewritten many times, to accept more and more people. In many of our large cities non-immigrants are the minority. Our ever so patriotic politicians see this, and change our laws to suite the new demographic, so they will get more votes. They ignore our customs and traditions that made this country, and replace it with those of our new citizens.
I really disagree with this. The reasons many people have worked hard to change Canadian immigration law is because those laws were (and still are to a certain extent) racist. I can point to dozens of scholarly books that discuss the ways that Canadian immigration law was meant to keep out people of colour, except as non-status labourers (which means they can come in to work, but can't have citizenship or any rights) until the immigration laws changed in the 60s & 70s. Since then, there has actually been a lot of restrictions that have been added to the Canadian immigration laws. Restrictions on money, class, language, etc... so that still today, a certain type of person is favoured.
Also, I would like to point out that Canada is a settler colony... Most of Canada is still under dispute as land stolen from the indigeneous people, who are still being colonized and oppressed by the colonial state. This "our" culture that you're talking about is a myth of a cultural standard of people of European descent. Because this is a settler nation, the only people who were "here first" are the native people. Everyone else, including those of European descent, immigrated here at some point. I would also like to point out that Europeans were not the only ones to immigrate to Canada early on, and that Africans and Asians have also been part of early immigration to Canada. Just because the dominant group is of European descent, does not mean it is the "legitimate" culture that other people should come and assimilate to. Canada has never been a "strong free nation", it has been a nation that has grown through the exploitation of various peoples over time.
That said, I am happy to live in a country like Canada, where democracy still means something, and where people can mobilize and pressure our governments to make changes that are more socially just and less oppressive.
I also think it's really wonderful that Canada is a place where so many people from so many different cultures (both from other countries AND cultures & subcultures that are more commonly thought of as being American/Canadian) can live together, experience each others cultures, address problems, and all grow and develop from it. Cities like Toronto, where over half the population comes from recent immigrant backgrounds, makes for a culturally rich city. Montreal as well, has benefitted from being so culturally diverse, but all the good things that come from diversity mean nothing if we don't have laws that protect the rights of EVERYONE to have free expression and live without oppression.
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Very well spoken Thyme. You've found words I couldn't find in similar situations. Immigration rules are often the ones that strike me. I've never understood the word immigration. As integration doesn't work the same way in Canada as in Sweden(been here for the last 10.000 years :]) i'm simply going to aim it at Sweden and let Thyme and Laragorn discuss things further, personally I think Thyme's got a good point. Though it can be a dilemma with so many Europe-descendants in power.
Back to the Swedes, shall we? To stay fairly on-topic this includes the Sweden democrats. The best way to keep Sweden, immigrated upon every day, healthy we'll need better integration laws for the immigrants who get asylum, and of course faster responses to those who don't. Thing is, today, many do not want to get integrated and therefore get stuck in this maelstroem. Immigrants feel they're left out of the society because they decided not to take Swedish classes.
So, what will make it more enjoyable to learn, or what do we have against integrating?
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I am aware of the skelitons in Canadas closets, child slavry(we got boatloads of orphans from europe), blatant Native opression and the list goes on (show me a country that doesnt). I also understand the settler based history. I am a mixed race Canadian, my GreatGreatGrandfather came to Canada in 1870 from (get this, Im not making this up) Sweden. On my fathers side is mostly Native. So in no way am I in a position to have any judgement on Race. I also know of the racist laws that where in place before some major changes were made. I was not refering to those in my last post. I do know that a lot of the racist laws were ignored aswell. Canada was the destination for most on the underground railroad. Because of that we do have a rich history of prosperous African/Canadian's.
End of my Canadian Babel ::|
Back to the Swedes, shall we? To stay fairly on-topic this includes the Sweden democrats. The best way to keep Sweden, immigrated upon every day, healthy we'll need better integration laws for the immigrants who get asylum, and of course faster responses to those who don't. Thing is, today, many do not want to get integrated and therefore get stuck in this maelstroem. Immigrants feel they're left out of the society because they decided not to take Swedish classes.
So, what will make it more enjoyable to learn, or what do we have against integrating?
They should have to take classes. If they want to stay in Sweden, then they should learn the history of the country. Being accepted in a society you know nothing about is almost imposible. As has been said already, knowledge is they key factor.
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The small problem with the "take classes" solution is that in the case of the London bombings, the foiled UK airline bombings, the Spanish bombings or the murder of Theo Van Gogh in Holland is that the attacks were committed by people who were actually treated quite well by the country. Good education, nice middle class upbringing, citizenship in most cases, etc.
Regarding the poster who wanted to move from Sweden to Holland, I'd suggest you look at this link before you decide it is so great there... :http://www.expatica.com/actual/article.asp?subchannel_id=1&story_id=19065
On the other hand, they agree with you on assimilation--of Dutch people into Sharia law...
http://www.sweetness-light.com/archive/dutch-justice-minister-sharia-law-ok-if-people-want-it
Apparently the Dutch Justice Minister believes that a simple 2/3rds vote would make stoning of gays to death fine. Burying adulterous women up to their necks in the ground, then stoning their heads to death would be fine. Chopping off a thief's hand would be fine.... if the people want it, of course. How this logic comes from one of the freeest and most open countries in the world is beyond me.
- Vengeance
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Chopping off a thief's hand would be fine.... if the people want it, of course. How this logic comes from one of the freeest and most open countries in the world is beyond me.
Very simple, we're living in a democracy :)
Our minister didn't mean that he *agreed* with the Sharia, he just meant that IF 2/3 of the entire dutch population would say "We want the Sharia" our parliament should *not* change our constitution to block that, as in a true democracy, the government listens to what the *people* want. The thing about the Sharia was just an example, and it underlines again how an open country The Netherlands are.
I read the article you linked to, and ... it kinda twists our minister's words, like if he's really about to introduce the Sharia in The Netherlands. Bad source of info you have :thumbdown:
And the article about "one third of the Dutch want to emigrate"? Come on, some unknown research bureau did an inquiry with 400 people...
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i am of the opinion that people are allways going to fight over the slightest difference between them, because of our habit of passing the buck. every single conflict in our history is a result of someone blaming someone else for their own problems, and there will be allways problems untill there is no difference of opinion between anyone, and no one hates or loves anyone. in which case we may as well not exist.
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If two-thirds of the Netherlands ever votes Sharia law into being the law of the land, just think of the tourism it will lose....
- no more legal prostitution
- no more euthanasia
- no more semi-legal drugged out coffee shops
- no more homosexuals
- no more television
- no more images or pictures of any kind
- no more education of females, as they become property like cattle
If the Justice Minister can be so blah and accepting of this possibility, won't he think of the lost tourism Euros? :-)
In terms of Dutch emigration, you can doubt the survey all you want but the figures are here: (http://www.cbs.nl/en-GB/menu/themas/mens-maatschappij/bevolking/publicaties/artikelen/2005-1659-wm.htm) 5 years ago, 30,000 people were leaving Holland and last year it was 50,000. That is a big increase in a short amount of time. Perhaps Swedish immigrants to NL will make up the difference. :-)
- Vengeance
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There would still be homosexual people. Maybe you meant to say there would be no more open homosexuality?
edit: I like Baldur's wording better.
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There would be no open homosexuality, I think that's what Venge meant. All who were caught loving another one of his/her same sex would be stoned.