PlaneShift
Gameplay => Guilds Forum => Topic started by: herah on September 27, 2006, 12:07:32 am
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Welcome to the 1 st post by The Felicitous Fenkis [F.F] ,you may have seen us around chatting or training hard in the arena ! :)
well here's some other information about us !
Background .....
Herah is the eldest in a family of nine sisters, her childhood suffered at the hands of her drunken father, who took great pleasure in beating Herah, her mother and her sisters. for years she cried herself to sleep,listening to the screams of her family and the manic laughter of her father as he inflicted his pleasures.
it was the eve of her 18th birthday and once again her father was drunk, she listened to the screams of her mother as her father beat her once more. then... the screams stopped. Herah ran inside to find her mothers lifeless body in the hands of that evil man. filled with rage she picked up a knife and leapt at her father, holding him against the wall, she put the knife to his throat and hissed '' you will never lay a hand on me or my sisters again... and now you will get what you deserve''. Herah cut his throat, as he slumped to the floor, Herah let out a low growl and spat in his face.
Home was filled with sadness and despair, so Herah packed and took her sisters to find a new home. With their mother dead Herah quickly became their mother defending and providing for them.
The sisters found home in a place called Ojaveda, Herah made friends quickly with other fenkis and they slowly started to join the group of sisters ,this is how The felicitous Fenkis was born ……….
so moving on to our goals ....because of Herahs personnel oppression we as a guild are dedicated to stamping out oppression of all types,,no matter who by ..
we offer help and advice and guidance to all new comers to ylaikum.
Even though we are an all fenki guild ,we do not discriminate against other races
No matter what creed anyone can seek sanctuary and our protection .
in our guild we have ranks [based on the Amazons .....female warriors ]
GUILD LEADER....ALKAIO..means mighty one
RANK 7 .....AELLO..means whirlwind
RANK 6 .....ALCINOE..means might wisdom
RANK 5 .....ANTIMACHE..means confronting warrior
RANK 4 .....ANTANDRE...means preceding men
RANK 3 .....AMYNOMENE..means blameless defender
RANK 2 .....EUMACHE ...means good fighter
RANK 1 .....ANDOMACHEmeans man fighter
all rank names are names of actual amazon warriors ....
well i hope you have enjoyed reading about us ...and we look forward to meeting you all in yliakum ...... \\o//
more info on our site at http:/newyorkattitudes.net/felfen
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Well, a site, maybe a bit more information? But from what you had, very nice! Though some RP would be nice.
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uhhhhhhh.... Why do i bother posting here.... ???
Oh yes here it is....
GUILD LEADER....ALKAIO..means mighty one
RANK 7 .....AELLO..means whirlwind
RANK 6 .....ALCINOE..means might wisdom
RANK 5 .....ANTIMACHE..means confronting warrior
RANK 4 .....ANTANDRE...means preceding men
RANK 3 .....AMYNOMENE..means blameless defender
RANK 2 .....EUMACHE ...means good fighter
RANK 1 .....ANDOMACHEmeans
Is the enkudish language thingy? Just wondering. Robinmagus I think this counts as some RP.
Even though I have the most hated Xacha I must applaud all of you for helping the new and helping the challenged.
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\\o//
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Kolesa stumbles across a group of Ladies all dressed up in armor... "Hiya Herah, I am glad to see a Fenki guild, what a great idea. No offence to any Menki out there, but I can see some Fenki's not wishing to follow them in every battle and hunt." :devil:
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*Phinehas looks around at the young women, and shakes his head.*
Just join the Feline's Lair. You're assured fair treatment there, and they actually know what they're doing.
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uhm...yeah, our guild is pretty awesome foo...besides herah is better than any other guild leader :P
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Kolisa stands proud with her sisters. She is totally fed up of Menki's leading the hunt when they have no idea what to do, and end up going home hungry and tired.
She's been pushed from pillar to post all her life and has finally found a home in Akkaio where she is treated with respect and on the same level as all her sisters in the Felicitous Fenkis.
She has had a lot to talk about around the fire in the evenings with a full belly and jug of ale. For this alone she is ever gratefull for Herah accepting her into her family.
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*Phinehas looks around at the young women, and shakes his head.*
Just join the Feline's Lair. You're assured fair treatment there, and they actually know what they're doing.
Well you could have said it more nicely, like me. But yeah, the Felines Lair is definantly a good alternative.
Anyway, I think you might want to rethink the ranks. The positions or purposes weren't well described, but from what I got, not the most depth/efficiency
Here is a very nice thread by Phinehas: http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=25003.0
EDIT: And I'd have to say Jjairr owns as a guild leader :D If she still is guild leader >_>
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Anfa Hugs Herah!!
yeah, glad to see you with your own thread and I understand that you are looking for an amazon bend which the Feline's Lair definitely is not...
Perhaps the males just can't understand why a bunch of fenkis would want their own guild.. ;D
If you need any help with the description of the different levels just ask but I think it is a fine beginning.
Cheers
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*hugs Anfa* thank you so much for the support...obviously we have to teach a thing or two to these ego obsessed menkis and males
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*Phinehas chuckles cruelly.*
I await your attempt eagerly.
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*me bites Phineas*
mmm yummies :D :D
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*Phinehas blows Kalika into next Thursday.*
I can RP poorly with the best of them.
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*me waves from next thursday as she stands over Phinehas beaten body*
chi?
ahahaha its all love :love:
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And they say that I spam? :devil:
Just to be honest, I did actually have a whole post in mind to retort, but got control of myself.
Umm... yay new guild...
Right...
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sorry mother if i give the guild a bad name cause of my temper
phinehas youre kind of a stuck of arse to be polite
Edited for content. Please be polite, and use PMs if you don't feel like it. --Karyuu (apology merged :>)
sorry karyuu....
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All the fenkies grouped up for me and easy to find. I love this guild :D
Jokes aside, I have seen great things from this guild, and I've yet to see a disrespectful guildmember come from their ranks.
Bravo Herah
I only wish I had boobs O.o
And don't mind Phinehas, he is too cool for school.
Ex-Cutting Edge and all.
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All the fenkies grouped up for me and easy to find. I love this guild :D
Jokes aside, I have seen great things from this guild, and I've yet to see a disrespectful guildmember come from their ranks.
Bravo Herah
I only wish I had boobs O.o
And don't mind Phinehas, he is too cool for school.
Ex-Cutting Edge and all.
rofl haha funny xD
Glad to see you finally post here Herah... I've had some good rp with the ff and like nurahk i haven't seen a disrespectful member from the ff yet.
good luck to you further on herah /me hugs herah
@phinehas: they have existed some time now, I won't take up sides and say a guild is better than another, only your first post here gave some cruel constructive critisism <.< edit: no post gave constructive critisism even if you're posting ic
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Constructive criticism is always a good thing. but i've met a few members of this guild IG, and they are all IC unless specificed otherwise. And that's more than I can say for most, so i like them. The story could use some work but the guild itself is good.
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:P I love this guild .... Though can't really give my oppinion I guess as im the second leader. hehe our guild is finally posted here *Winnry jumps up and down and shouts "Yay!!!"*
Would you beleive we where going to do this when we first created the FF, but I guess I forgot or somthing hehe. Well anyway probably better this way. Also for any of you who think an alll fenki guild isa bad idea ... or wouldn't work out tell that to are 30 somthing members lol. ;D
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After wandering in the forbidden lands for over a year and a half, I finally found my way back to the enki homeland, and the first that I encountered was this fenki. Offering her friendship and guidence she helped me to find some of my old friends who I was beginning to believe had also been lost. For this the Lady Herah will always have my friendship and protection.
May many good and glorious days shine upon you and your guild.
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/me holds up his left paw and swears solemnly
"Fenkis are friends, not food"
hehehe ...great to see you here, Herah.
I have to stand with the others when they say that the FF members I have met were all respectful and competent RPers.
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\\o//
Great to see the guild exposed a bit more to the public eye Herah!
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For the record, I think this is actually a unique and original idea for a guild. I just think that they need to put more effort into history and hierarchy, etc. etc.
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thankyou to all who have posted replys good or bad .we know we need a little work and it will get done ,as we grow and learn ...no one can run before they crawl ...even you phineas ::) ...so if you see us i/g say hi ,as we The F.F are here to stay !
thanks again friends out there for ya support you make it all worth it
herah x
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Good luck with the guild. You should [url] [ /url] your site's link in this thread.
I'd also choose a different approach on this promotional thread, as it may be more captivating for newcomers and prettier for the rest of us if the guild's background is put into a less personal perspective. For instance, I believe, it should not contain so much facts from Herah's life. Not because I don't care about them, but because they are alot more appealing if kept somewhat personal. And I really do believe the Felicitious Fenkis is a lovely guild and Herah's past might cast a somewhat heavy shade over it.
I also believe you should put more emphase into guild ranks. Currently we do not see them described for what they are, they seem simple steps one must climb. I believe it is important to create a description for these ranks, so the name will make more sense and the members in that rank may know what is to be expected of them and how proud they can be.
Your guild's website seems very good. However I'd add another section named "Goals" with your short term, mid term and long term goals and pretty up some information around the site. You shouldn't mention promotions in the ranks description page, unless you feel like changing it every time anyone is promoted. Some of us also enjoy clean typing so it would give a different look to your promotional thread and website if you did something towards that effect.
Sorry if it's a boring post. Hope I haven't offended you. Good luck! *grins*
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*winnry nods at the last post slowly* Hehe Thanks for the complement about the guild site. Worked 3 hours yesterday changing the graphics, CSS and PHP coding on the site. I think it looks much nicer now. Expecially since the Bannner is fixed yay!! :-[ Umm just don't ask who made the last banner that was mest up *Giggles*
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Guilds that recruit new arrived players into their ranks find more difficulty than others, in order to ensure that all their members behave as they're meant to. This guild is no exception.
I managed to talk to Herah, through a /tell, precisely due to that. I spotted a weird confusion that some of the guild members had (thanks to a /who I found out they were newly recruited, or at least, not ranked inside the guild structure) mainly related to an OOC/IC chaotic mixing.
Doing the same /who, but searching for the entire guild, I was able to find who was its leader. Herah.
To my surprise, my comments were well recieved, and I appreciated concern in the leader's reaction. That was a good sign to me.
I sporadically talked again, the next couple of days, and I saw the honest purpose of improving coming from the guild leader. Later on, I knew that Herah was, in fact, a person that I thought was gone already. One of those players that you try to help, and then are gone; but, this time, this was an alt creation. An alt, that had become at that time the main character.
I don't know if I was listened to my comments about the members precisely because I was the one helping that player when he/she was new, perhaps if I had been someone else, my comments would have been less welcomed. In any case, it seemed to me that the guild leader cared about the guild, and its image. And worked for it.
Herah, you've in here, already, good recommendations. About guild history, and ranks for instance. Ranks not being just a change of title, but also a new (added or different) responsibility within the guild... Don't be obsessed with that, though. What you do in game, is far more important than improving this post on the forums. Give time to time, try always to improve yourself and those around you, and the guild structure will be polished by itself, as you go playing and evolving as a player, as all your guild does, and they all work to improve it.
It's not that I've seen how the guild roleplays, nor all of its members, nor even a few of them. I recall, though, a birthday party that Herah had at the Broken Door. Quite a group showed up in there. You can be proud of that, Herah.
This obviously doesn't prove anything regarding roleplay, but, at least, it shows that an important quantity of the ones playing the game, chose to be there, at that party. So they must like what you do or did in the game. After all, I guess that's what really matters.
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:'( (happy style)
Nilrem...youre a sweetheart, i adore you *hugggggggggggggggggggggggggg*
:flowers:
*edit*
btw love the new layout Winnry good job :D :D \\o//
Please avoid posting two or more successive posts before others have replied. Just "Modify" your last post to add new information. Thanks! --Karyuu
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\\o// Hehe thanks. If anyone is intersted in taking a look at the FF site by all means go on ... you can even sign up and post on the fourms. The link should be in my sig. *Winnry giggles* :P
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As you might (or might not) know already, I am one who thinks that race-specific guilds are a bad idea. This is not connected to member count. In fact, I know that it usually is very easy for such guilds to gain members fast, and if I understand the comments right, you are mass-recruiting even. So no, this doesn't make it not bad. It simply proves that simple "reasons" for separating / banding together appeal to many people (as if RL wouldn't prove this all the time).
Additionally I disagree with Phinehas: I don't in any way consider this original or unique. Granted, the female-only aspect is new, but that's about it. There are several guilds, the most recent one I know of Dwarvensbane (not race-specific but racist, which is just as bad), that are nothing but "Anonymous Alcoholics" for mistreated people.
Additionally, I think that the name indeed is bad. The term "Fenki" is clearly OOC, and I don't think that any Enkidukai with pride would allow their race and gender mangled into such an IMO disrespectful acronym which doesn't even fit a medieval style at all. I know that it's used ingame "IC-ly" a lot, and I think that this is due to people being too lazy to even try to spell "Enkidukai" correctly.
Additionally, you say that the ranks are names of Amazon leaders? Then these should not be used ingame, either. Granted, they aren't well known (at least to me), but since you even specified this, it is known now. Additionally, those who find the amazon concept appealing are likely to know them (which probably was the intent).
It really lookslike nothing more than a troubled childhood, hardly anything anyone except your family members would want to join (realistically, not in terms of how recruitment in MMORPGs works).
I'm sorry, but this introduction didn't manage to change my initial impression of PLing and the desire to separate for separations sake as actual goal (and players liking the model but not the background).
I expect that you'll disregard this, just as all of the other race-specific guilds, but whatever.
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hmm thank you for your opinion
a) i dont care who or what thinks "fenki" is ABSOLUTELY OOC...first of all, i FIRST heard the term in game, i use it in game and not when im talking to someone in real life, and it was created for the game. therefore TO ME its ic. what you or i think doesnt apply to everone else
b) yeah okay, race and gender specific guids might not be teh best idea. but oh well. thats how society works, otherwise we would all be clones of eahc other
c)you say that probably no one other than family memebers would join. i dont think yu understood the premise. abandoned or lost or wandering whatever fenkis joined together, we call each otehr "sister" to promote more acceptance and a familiar bond between us. maybe the whole "idea" written out by winnry and herah might not be to everyones liking, its not to mine, but oh well. its a good guild, and hardly ever mentions the past.
d) i agree with the thing about amazon leaders, but no ones perfect...but i think what you said about the guild was rude. i am a FENKI with utmost pride in being fenki, and being felecitious...but i suggest...dont knock what yoiu ahvent tried
anywho :flowers:
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There are several guilds, the most recent one I know of Dwarvensbane (not race-specific but racist, which is just as bad), that are nothing but "Anonymous Alcoholics" for mistreated people.
I think you are drawing conclusions based on the assumption that the guild had an OOC racist objective when this is completely false. Dwarvesbane provided great fun, great RP and they were very respectful of all players. And you're also assuming FF is based on PLing and mass recruiting just because you don't like the idea of race based guilds.
It's important to actually get to know the characters involved with the guilds in order to come to an informed opinion on them.
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I think you are drawing conclusions based on the assumption that the guild had an OOC racist objective when this is completely false.
Nah, I don't think they are OOC-ly racist. I merely say they are using the well-known "tried and true" concept of racism to have some "justification", both for the guild and to do some PvP. And that primitive concepts like racism or at least separation based on race appeal to people easily, and that this is why such guilds usually gain members fast. No thinking required, and people like that.
And you're also assuming FF is based on PLing and mass recruiting just because you don't like the idea of race based guilds.
Nope, I assume they're based on PL because the only thing I've seen them do was slaying MOBs, and not a single one of them was not highly levelled. Additionally, they themselves stated that the more or less only thing they're doing is "training".
Welcome to the 1 st post by The Felicitous Fenkis [F.F] ,you may have seen us around chatting or training hard in the arena ! :)
I think that pretty much classifes as PL. Not sure what "chatting" is supposed to refer to, but I somehow doubt that most of it is RP; I must've missed most of it ingame, anyway.
Likewise, I based my comment about mass-recruiting on their comments,
tell that to are 30 somthing members lol. ;D
and the non-refuted replies of other posters:
Guilds that recruit new arrived players into their ranks find more difficulty than others, in order to ensure that all their members behave as they're meant to. This guild is no exception.
I managed to talk to Herah, through a /tell, precisely due to that. I spotted a weird confusion that some of the guild members had (...) mainly related to an OOC/IC chaotic mixing.
This pretty much questions the quality of RP that has been claimed by others, as well as proves the mass-recruiting aspect (or at least a very very lacking selection process).
a) i dont care who or what thinks "fenki" is ABSOLUTELY OOC...
Yes, I expected this to be the case.
first of all, i FIRST heard the term in game,
There is quite a lot of BS (not the "BroadSword" variant) being said ingame. This doesn't in any way mean that it is IC, or even just acceptable.
i use it in game and not when im talking to someone in real life, and it was created for the game.
It was not created for the game. It was created as abbreviation for typing less, and not having to look up "Enkidukai" (which does take a while to get acquainted to; I just think that for the sake of decent RP it's more than worth going through the little trouble). "Fenki" does have a funny ring to it so it is a nice little word, but still it isn't IC. It wasn't even coined by the devs (not even by the programming devs, the actual model name is "enkif", not "fenki").
therefore TO ME its ic. what you or i think doesnt apply to everone else
I was under the impression that the logic and obviousness were pretty much universal, but whatever. After all, the first encounter creates the deepest impression, and to change it afterwards, it takes more than a few lines of post. Just don't expect me to accept your "IC". Might as well accept "w00t" as IC. After all, that's used almost exclusively ingame as well (though auto-filtered).
b) yeah okay, race and gender specific guids might not be teh best idea. but oh well. thats how society works, otherwise we would all be clones of eahc other
I find this a bit unimaginative. Not even RL society works based on race and gender specifics anymore, unless you're from some pretty backwards country or region (though, agreed, there still is some residue of this thinking). Let alone Yliakum, where there has never been geographical separation to begin with, so it's like the major international cities, just more equally distributed (Where IRL do you have a >50% interracial marriage quote?).
Even IRL, most organizations are built around other things and goals, and their tradition of racial hate and lack of mixing has been much longer than in Yliakum, whereas Yliakum has a long history of mixing.
c)you say that probably no one other than family memebers would join. i dont think yu understood the premise. abandoned or lost or wandering whatever fenkis joined together, we call each otehr "sister" to promote more acceptance and a familiar bond between us.
Alright, so it's member range is broader than I had read it to be, which is a plus. Anyway, I'm much more opposed to the idea of racial / gender segregation than "Anonymous Alcoholics".
d) i agree with the thing about amazon leaders, but no ones perfect...
But everyone should strive to become perfect... or at least better. And this would be an easy thing to fix. There's even an Enki language being created ATM, so would it not be worth looking at that for rank names?
but i think what you said about the guild was rude.
If I were to use "not a good idea" and other such politically correct newspeak, it might end up looking as if I find nothing actually wrong with it.
i am a FENKI with utmost pride in being fenki,
W00t, fenkis pwn.
and being felecitious...but i suggest...dont knock what yoiu ahvent tried
Well, the problem is... I have no fenki char. Not even a female Enkidukai char. In fact, I got not even an Enkidukai char. Granted, I could create one, but that's quite too much hassle (it would need to have at least some background, etc.), especially to try out a guild with a concept that I dislike.
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Well, the problem is... I have no fenki char. Not even a female Enkidukai char. In fact, I got not even an Enkidukai char. Granted, I could create one, but that's quite too much hassle (it would need to have at least some background, etc.), especially to try out a guild with a concept that I dislike.
How about just talking to their members and RPing with them? That should give you a better picture of what the guild really stands for. I still have the impression you are filling the gaps of information with prejudice (that is since you find the concept bad/limited/poor, whatever is missing is filled with a negative assumption on your part: PLing, little RP, mass recruiting). The way you read "training hard in the arena" is an example. Not every guild that has many members is mass recruiting (it may mean their concept is appealing and it suits many characters), just like not every character who is trained or hunting in the arena is a PLer (nor does PLing mean RP will be ignored or put on second plane).
Now, just so I can see where you're coming from better, what would you consider a good "justification"? As I said before, race based guilds resemble RL immigrant communities in which members help each other find their place in the country they're in. They share the same language and roots and this makes it more efficient for them to share information, explain social rules that might be new to them and make the adaptation process easier for those newly arrived. True, little work may be put into this and RP might have little or nothing to do with their activities but it does not have to be this way nor is this a problem limited to this kind of guild.
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The RP of Fenki is very easily solved. I can just go in game and stand somewhere public and say, 'Hmmm, I find it a bit of a problem saying Female Enkindukai all the time, I think I will shorten it to Fenki.' Im sure that it would catch on pretty quickly and seeing as I said that IC then Fenki is then an IC word. Problem solved. In RL we have the evoloution of language so why not in game?
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How about just talking to their members and RPing with them? That should give you a better picture of what the guild really stands for.
I will observe what they do ingame more closely, that's for sure. I might also talk to some of them, but I will most likely not engage in (deep) RP with them unless all my doubts have been extinguished. It may sound elititst or snobby, but I simply do not want to engage in RP that might turn out as being bad (as in "outside the settings", "fleeting" etc.).
I still have the impression you are filling the gaps of information with prejudice (that is since you find the concept bad/limited/poor, whatever is missing is filled with a negative assumption on your part: PLing, little RP, mass recruiting). The way you read "training hard in the arena" is an example. Not every guild that has many members is mass recruiting (it may mean their concept is appealing and it suits many characters), just like not every character who is trained or hunting in the arena is a PLer (nor does PLing mean RP will be ignored or put on second plane).
This is true. Many guilds ahve lots of member but use a good selection process. However, they are growing rather slowly. The FF have appeared only comparatively recently, and therefore have been growing unusually fast. This isn't usually possible, because there just aren't that many good RPers joining all the time. I could be wrong in this case, but as I pointed out, there has been evidence of a noticable amount of their members being not only new players but also not well acquainted to the concept of RP. Therefore I feel my filling in the blanks isn't based on too shifty ground.
Additionally, from my past experience, there is a connection between racial segregation, fast growth, PL and lack of RP. They usually stem from a certain mindset, so almost always come in one package. Really the only exception to this that I'm aware of is the FL, which I accept (for the most part, anyway).
Now, just so I can see where you're coming from better, what would you consider a good "justification"?
A good justification IMO does not exist. At least not for an exclusively race-based guild. Even extending the "guild" concept to packs, as the FL does, a pack can be expected to, even if only on rare occasion, allow members of a different race to join. This is mostly due to marriage, but can also happen in response to some deep debt or some very special deed and excessively high respect to that person, but it can happen. IRL, tribes do also occasionally accept such members in.
The entire concept of race-basedness is questioned further by the fact that the settings quotes that over 50% ot the population is married to another race. Thus, even the packs in Ojaveda can be expected to have some non-Enki members, especially since Ojaveda is not some remote backwards village, but a, no the major trading hub of Yliakum, and therefore will see lots and lots of non-locals all the time, therefore almost enforcing mixing. The presence of Trasok and Brintec proves this.
Therefore, only the distinctly different society in Ojaveda may make it less likely for someone to marry into a pack there, but that'll apply to Enkidukai from elsewhere as well (who are not used to that sort of thing).
Anyway, if you want to justify racial segregation, the options I see are
- a very, very, very traditional pack, which is not likely to exist, and also exclusive to Enkidukai
- an environmental necessity, like ability to breath underwater, or to fit into small tunnels, or to exist under hostile conditions, or the need for exceptional mental capabilities. However, there are always options for members of other, not so well adapted races to join, given they manage to make up for the lack of natural suitability in a way that enables them to function just as well (commonly magic or high intellect).
IOW, it is perfectly fine to have a reasoning that will end up leaving mostly one race, if this reasoning is sound (i.e., justified within the settings, both in terms of actual need for the organisation as well as existance of the place in question). I think, however, that one should not strive to make things so that only one race can join. I may be stupid, but I really don't see why someone would, in character, actually think of this. This concept is much more prominent IRL than it can be in Yliakum (mixing, etc.).
Just to want to segregate based on race IRL, for whatever reasons, doesn't suffice to do it IC-ly ingame. It is an easy concept to think up, but it's hard to transpose it to Yliakum in a manner that makes it undeniably IC. That is more or less my complaint about all race-based guilds in PS.
Taking Dwarvensbane, for example. Their leader claims that their family was oppressed and exploited by a settlement of dwarves. This is highly unlikely to begin with, as all settlements are still governed by the same government. It is also unlikely that it would be possible for dwarves to manage such a thing, or to even attempt it in the first place, as their mentality is really quite different.
Even if we were to accept this as what happened, it takes a great deal of good will to accept that a character might be unable to see that this was a sort of fanatic dwarven cult and quite not the general dwarf. At least within some time in less extreme environment, the initial hate would subside to something like a distrust and the inability to form friendships with that race. Even if not, this would make one single character with a mental problem, not an entire guild. Additionally, it would also be a stretch to form such a guild in this case. Realistically, that character would end up picking fights in taverns, or, if born with much potential for violence, a murderer. Organising a guild, and doing so sufficiently believable (against all obvious proof) is something that's not likely to happen, realistically.
And this was the best / most probable explanation I've heard yet. Then there is the usual "My parents were killed by <insert race>". Now, given that it is highly improbable that that char would not have had contact and likely also friends of <race>, only a severe mental defect can lead them to think that an entire race consists of only murderers. In fact, this is more like thinking that everyone with black hair and glasses is a murderer IRL, if a band of black haired glasses-wearers killed your parents, because different races are as common in Yliakum as different hair colours IRL, judging by the setting.
Thus, I think that most of these guilds, if not all, would never have happened, or never gained any significant amount of members, if the players would play 100% realistic, i.e., fully IC.
As I said before, race based guilds resemble RL immigrant communities in which members help each other find their place in the country they're in. They share the same language and roots and this makes it more efficient for them to share information, explain social rules that might be new to them and make the adaptation process easier for those newly arrived.
Yes, this is true IRL. However, in PS, there have been no immigrants whatsoever for almost a millenium. Also, there is a common language, spoken by all inhabitants. Likewise, even given architectural differences and different ways families work (a "pack" essentially is a family in this sense), there is a common culture, even a common government, which also have been in place for at least half of the millenium FAICT.
True, little work may be put into this and RP might have little or nothing to do with their activities but it does not have to be this way nor is this a problem limited to this kind of guild.
Absolutely not, yes. This problem can appear in any other guild as well. However, these other guilds do have the option to do this work later on, while if you start out with an impossible concept no amount of work can make it fit in smoothly.
@ Idoru: I don't think evolution of language works that easily. Especially not in such extreme cases. Words take decades to slowly emerge or die out. Even worse if things become "personal" in such a way. Imagine someone IRL starting to call female humans "humfs". You wouldn't take them seriously in the first place, much less consider using that word anywhere. Noone would understand you, and you'd end up explaining a lot over and over, unlikely to find someone agreeing.
What is much more likely is that the race plays much less prominent role, therefore removing need to mention it at all in all but rare cases, so the overhead is tolerable. Even if not, it usually suffices to mention the race once, and afterwards you can refer to that person as "man" or "woman". In fact, I think people would usually use "man" and "woman" unless race actually matters. Enkidukai from Ojaveda might use "males" and "females" for all races, given their pack tradition.
If talking in person, then the need to mentione one's race is removed completely, so saying "Hi, I'm a fenki and my name is <name>" is stating the obvious and likely to get you some frowns. You don't usually IRL walk up to people saying "Hello, I'm a female caucasian and my name is <name>".
In fact, I rarely mention somene's race ingame at all. Usually it only happens when I'm describing someone to someone else, and in that case the use of the race and gender combo isn't much overhead. In fact, the way you present it, as well as the words you choose, can add to your RP.
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How about just talking to their members and RPing with them? That should give you a better picture of what the guild really stands for.
I will observe what they do ingame more closely, that's for sure. I might also talk to some of them, but I will most likely not engage in (deep) RP with them unless all my doubts have been extinguished. It may sound elititst or snobby, but I simply do not want to engage in RP that might turn out as being bad (as in "outside the settings", "fleeting" etc.).
I'm sure you're skilled enough a RPer to find your way out of a situation that is not fun for you without resorting to a flat "[not interesrted]". Having an open mind and going in unbiased is important if you really want to be fair and don't forget the quality of a RP falls on the shoulders of all characters involved, not just a few of them. Unless of course you need the "good crowd" for your own RP to be any good. I don't think that is the case and I'm not saying we're all good RPers. Many don't like to RP at all and they have fun playing the game their way (and they are entitled to, after all the point is that everyone has fun). However, you got as much to prove here as they do and if your involvement with a possible RP is limited to your first impressions you're not gonna get much out of it (because you're getting what you're giving).
I still have the impression you are filling the gaps of information with prejudice (that is since you find the concept bad/limited/poor, whatever is missing is filled with a negative assumption on your part: PLing, little RP, mass recruiting). The way you read "training hard in the arena" is an example. Not every guild that has many members is mass recruiting (it may mean their concept is appealing and it suits many characters), just like not every character who is trained or hunting in the arena is a PLer (nor does PLing mean RP will be ignored or put on second plane).
This is true. Many guilds ahve lots of member but use a good selection process. However, they are growing rather slowly. The FF have appeared only comparatively recently, and therefore have been growing unusually fast.
This promotional thread was posted months after the guild was formed and I know for a fact that Herah never promoted the guild by shouting "New guild in town! Join now!" but they kept a rather low profile, not doing any active recruiting at all. The fact that many wanted to join proves their concept was appealing and that you don't have all the facts.
Now, just so I can see where you're coming from better, what would you consider a good "justification"?
A good justification IMO does not exist.
If no good justification exists, then why pick on this one? The relativity you are suggesting requires that you look at each case individually. Maybe the concept is old but the execution blows your mind and viceversa. You will only know if you go in-game and find out.
Thus, I think that most of these guilds [Dwarvesbane and race based guilds], if not all, would never have happened, or never gained any significant amount of members, if the players would play 100% realistic, i.e., fully IC.
Well, let's take a look at DB. Their motivation was hate. Dramatically, hate, just like love, is one of the strongest reasons any character can have to act and accomplish anything. If you present it like the only dimension you have, then you don't really have a personality and you haven't put much effort into it. Not the case with DB. There were great RPers in their ranks and none of them could be considered as one-dimensional. Most of them were tricked by Drahlian to join, victims of a spell. All this happened fully in-character.
More importantly, when you saw a DB member your character was placed in a position in which, if you were being consistent with your own RP, you had to take a stand. And they never forced any PvP on anyone and if there was a duel it was always preceeded by RP. This means that not only did they have a reason to act the way they did but they provided others with one to RP as well. I've never seen any other guild accomplish that and it is certainly an example evil guilds should try to follow. Having an IC effect on everyone in a room and making possible for complete strangers to actually engage in RP is justification enough in my eyes.
Again, I take it you didn't really get involved with them. Well, you take what you give.
As I said before, race based guilds resemble RL immigrant communities in which members help each other find their place in the country they're in. They share the same language and roots and this makes it more efficient for them to share information, explain social rules that might be new to them and make the adaptation process easier for those newly arrived.
Yes, this is true IRL. However, in PS, there have been no immigrants whatsoever for almost a millenium. Also, there is a common language, spoken by all inhabitants. Likewise, even given architectural differences and different ways families work (a "pack" essentially is a family in this sense), there is a common culture, even a common government, which also have been in place for at least half of the millenium FAICT.
The common tongue is not the only language in Yliakum and each race has their own personality traits after all. If anything, given the uniforming pattern of Yliakum society, the motivation to keep those ancient traditions safe from extinction is justification enough to try to have race based guild.
True, little work may be put into this and RP might have little or nothing to do with their activities but it does not have to be this way nor is this a problem limited to this kind of guild.
Absolutely not, yes. This problem can appear in any other guild as well. However, these other guilds do have the option to do this work later on, while if you start out with an impossible concept no amount of work can make it fit in smoothly.
Impossible? Now that's a fallacy. The truth is you don't really know which guild is going to work in the end given the current state of the game. I've seen guilds with great concepts and background stories turned to mass recruiters and offering no possibility to actually RP. The FF, however, provides good RP opportunities to its members by addressing a distinctive aspect of their personality. The potential is there. It can go to waste just as much as it can succeed. In the end it depends on what the members choose to do.
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hmmm...well no need to nitpick...
if you dnt like someone guild, than thats your problem...you COULD be rude and discourteous by spamming other peoples threads with long, boring to read, and often pointless in the long run posts about why youre so much smarter than everyone else etc...
or you COULD say meh, shrug, and wander onto another thread
oh, gee...wow, what an idea...let someone keep whatever pride they have in themself and not criticize it from every angle
sorry if im sounding overly mean but im so sick and tired of going to threads hoping someone says something worth replying to, and then my guild finally shows up n the radar again, only to be criticized to its very bones...
its stupid...at least phineas knew when to quit.
edit :*hugs* for zhai for remaining objective :)
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OK, this one'll be short, and final.
@ Zhai: FF are new so there's a lot for me to observe yet to disprove the first impression, agreed.
I don't exclusively pick on this one. I comment on them when I see them, but I may easily miss some, maybe even most.
Impossible concept: it is true that I can only judge from what there is to know ATM. I still think that that shows the general direction, but yes, I may end up having been wrong.
What works out and what doesn't isn't governed by IC realism, it's governed by OOC chance. I don't have the impression that any guild is being joined or created from an IC preference. The player decides, not the character, much more than in general RP (so being popular doesn't necessarily equate being something good).
It is well known that I think that non-RPers are a waste of bandwidth and should not be allowed into PS, as there are plenty other games that don't care. I also know that I'm pretty much alone with that opinion. It is no question that one can get much fun and enjoyment from abusing something, which PL IMNSHO is.
Obviously I wasn't clear: even if something creates RP, it's not necessarily a good thing.
@ Kalika: I don't think I'm smarter, I merely think that people should put more thought into things before doing them, and more often just don't do things if they're unsure if it's a good idea. Edit: this is in no way restricted to this thread, or to PS. /Edit
If I'd just shrug things off, then I'd be guilty of not voicing my opinion, and then be partially responsible when things go wrong.
Especially when there's so much positive feedback that it might be seen as me condoning it as well.
Even with me "spoiling" things, there's been much more positive response than negative. I've even been convinced that not their entire concept is bad. Also, I respect that this has remained civil at all times.
@ all: It seems to have come accross differently, but I don't "hate" anyone due to this discussion. I am passionate about this, but I'm not stupid.
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The guild had its hard times but it seems we will be back permanently now:P Maybe not everyone in the guild is the best RPer but we do our best to have fun with PS not hurting sobodyelses feelings;)
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Just rename it to "Felicitous Enkiduybas"("Enkiduyba" is the official term for female "enkidukai") (http://pswiki.xordan.com/index.php/Enkidukai_Language/Vocabulary#E) and all these complaints about "Fenki OOC" will go away(and they are somewhat justified). And about whether it goes against PlaneShift Settings or not, even in RL multicultural environments, there are those people who prefer to stick with those who are similar to them in habits and culture. And this is about human beings, if there are cultural divisions on a single race even in those integrated environment, why cannot exist differences in another environment that involves not only different races, but different species as well? And I find it funny that a race known for creating prejudices against their own due to cultural differences or skin color would live in complete harmony with totally different species with their own ways of life and tastes, unless the PlaneShift humans have a completely different and less balkanized (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkanized) nature than ourselves, which implies they possess different psychological traits and thus can only be compared to RL humans on the body, not on their mind or "soul". Now what this guild really needs is some kind of value to unite all, because I believe that for a scenario like Yliakum, divisions by values and beliefs are much more convincing than divisions by race, gender or species, though the latter can yet exist, but not as the rule, but as the exception.
About roleplay quality, "generic" guilds are a special case. A generic guild is a guild that has little and very simple to achieve demands for accepting new members besides "being from race x", "being a warrior", etc. and thus are much more open than a more "niche" guild like the DE or CoV for example. As expected, such small demands of what type of character will be accepted mean not all inside will be stellar roleplayers.
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Just rename it to "Felicitous Enkiduybas"("Enkiduyba" is the official term for female "enkidukai") (http://pswiki.xordan.com/index.php/Enkidukai_Language/Vocabulary#E) and all these complaints about "Fenki OOC" will go away(and they are somewhat justified).
If the wiki is being used to confirm Enkiduybas as the official term for a female Enkidukai then that same wiki not more than a dozen lines down confirms Fenki as the official slang term for a female Enkidukai.
So how about less slagging off over Guild names and pointless analysing over whether a fenki only guild is within the settings and get to more helping them to develop their RP abilities and doing what we're all here for enjoying ourselves.
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If the wiki is being used to confirm Enkiduybas as the official term for a female Enkidukai then that same wiki not more than a dozen lines down confirms Fenki as the official slang term for a female Enkidukai.
I talked with author of that entry. It is there only to explain what the term means.
It doesn't actually belong to Enkien, due to the simple fact it's derived from the Common language (no such word as 'female' in Enkien). This having been said, Enkiduyba isn't official term for female Enkidukai. Enkien-speciffic and used rarely even by Enkidukai ("Used only when absolutely needed, these suffices can indicate whether a noun refers to a man or a woman.")
And yeah, I noticed there are many language theory geniuses in this community.
Yet there's a small detail they seem to miss. "Fenki" doesn't follow medieval-styled word formation. It's a style found in the internet-age environment. Ergo: "slang" arguments are simply pathetic. Please take a look at the old slang words before coming up with such ridiculous assumptions.
In the end though, fenki/menki/enki I treat as disrespectful forms, maybe refering to the part of Enkidukai community that honestly believes they have paws instead of hands and actually lick themselves instead of bathing. In other words, for my character, fenki = female Enkidukai that has something terribly wrong with her head. Needless to say, if someone calls him "menki", there's a big chance he may spit in their face :P
Enkidukai he considers as neutral form.
Enkidukol isn't needed, but if a non-Enkidukai refers to him like that, he will usually treat such person with high respect, in return for the respect they showed for his language (and culture?).
And if Enkidukai were meant to be called "enkies", then the settings page would display the name as such. If the race is called "Enkidukai", that means majority of people call them like that. What we have here isn't a case of slang words being formed. It's a case of people not knowing how to role-play their characters properly.
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I think you guys are over reacting to something very small, and obviously taken the wrong way. Do you spit in someone's face for calling you a guy instead of a male? just my bit on why i think this is a dumb argument
**EDIT sry i think this is getting off topic
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I know it's hard to imagine in this community, but I'm not my character. Ergo: We behave in different ways.
And given the pride he has of his race and long-cultivated culture, if someone associates him with those mentally ill Enkidukai, he takes it as a serious offense.
I would consider this a small issue, but given how many "small" issues appear in this community (modern-styled guilds, modern-styled characters, modern-styled slang, characters that fit "literary realism", rather than fantasy novels...), together it's a rather big issue.
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When I first saw the F.F's intensely role playing, they had a lovely celebration going on - and i had not heard about a concept of the guild, but the name speaks for itself, it says to me "live your live and be merry" ... what is wrong with role-playing 'simple' language used by 'simple' people ?
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I just wiki'ied 'Felicitous'
To find out its not in all of wikipedia, its not a word O_o (at least not an english word)
Anyways... I found something on a saint though "Felicitas of Rome"
From reading that article, I learned Felicitas of Rome was a christan person in rome (no way!) who preached to pegans...
I still don't under stand the name Felicitous Fenkis...
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Felicitous \Fe*lic"i*tous\, a.
Characterized by felicity; happy; prosperous; delightful;
skillful; successful; happily applied or expressed;
appropriate.
[1913 Webster]
Wikipedia is not comprehensive, you might have tried wiktionary (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/felicitous)
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When I first saw the F.F's intensely role playing, they had a lovely celebration going on - and i had not heard about a concept of the guild, but the name speaks for itself, it says to me "live your live and be merry" ...
Which in turn means any female enkidukai can join with little restrictions, and this is what I meant with "generic guild"(A guild with no really specific goal at all, usually the equivalent of a friends club), and this won't ensure all that join are good roleplayers, though issues can be solved by making a stricter standard about who can stay.
There is nothing wrong with generic guilds, but I believe keeping a higher roleplay standard inside them is more difficult than in specialized guilds, though of course they have the advantage of, for being somewhat generic, attracting more people to join, although sometimes bigger isn't better.
Now I wouldn't go too far on language, as anyway, unless we start that stupid thing of using "olde english" when many aren't native english speakers and I believe even most native ones don't know how to use it properly, there is no way to make our characters speak in a non-modern and truly "medieval" form(Although "modern" in this sense means anything from 1900-nowadays, excluding of course leetspeak and excessive acronyms like the infamous LOL). Finally, the "Common Language" of Yliakum isn't English IC, OOC it is because forcing people to learn a fictional language would be too much, so I don't see why so much worry about whether something is too modern or not(except for the mentioned "1337" stuff), because in the end, what we isn't supposed to be what our characters really would speak IC, but instead an OOC translation of it.
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Felicitous \Fe*lic"i*tous\, a.
Characterized by felicity; happy; prosperous; delightful;
skillful; successful; happily applied or expressed;
appropriate.
[1913 Webster]
Wikipedia is not comprehensive, you might have tried wiktionary (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/felicitous)
Ah thanks Bilbous, I didn't know such a thing existed! :woot:
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Herah breaths a sigh of relief " at last someone has grasped the true meaning of the word felicitous, I also want to make a point about the use of the word fenki, the word in the wikipedia for female enki is enkiduybas but somehow felicitous enkiduybas seems a bit of a mouthful, it is common slang for a female enki to be called a fenki, everyone knows this and in any language even in medieval times slang was in common use, I don't want to nit pick but we are known as the f.f and always will be, a group of happy , hardworking ambitious fenkis in planeshift to have fun.
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/me smiles as he sees his ex mother in law walking proudly in the streets of Akkaio, he wonders if she already knows that Verlikchte and he are going to start a relationship again.
Great to see most of the old FF back and even the young FF members are, what is expected: polite fenkis who are willing to help in any case, no matter how much they know, or how long they play the game yet.
For all those who doubt it, FF is in 99% IC, sure, it can happen that a new member (and new player) goes OOC here and there, but that guild has great RP'ers and they teach eachother.
The word fenki is for most of the players completely IC, as is menki, it may or may not be invented OOC but it got implemented IC. It does not fit medieval slang? Who cares? Computers haven't existed in medieval times too, yet the winch has a machine that is somewhat like a computer - Remember, it is a fantasy setting and therefor must not follow reallife rules
Anyways, no flaming please, instead lets just have fun together.
Keep it going Herah! *hugs*
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mmmm whats our website?
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you will need to register on the site and await validation to be able to post on there
http://z11.invisionfree.com/Felicitous_Fenkis/index.php?
see you all soon
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You need to change the first post. Herah's more than lovely, but she didn't make a hot work of the topic post. :P
I think you should also exclude Herah's story from that, add it to the Communitive Storywriting section of this forum and link it in the topic. That way it'll make for an easier reading for the people. I'd improve the goals and objective part, to make it look better. I'd also add a bit on the methodology. And something about how you make Yliakum a better place to live in.
My pleasure!
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I'm playing a Clamod Fenki and want to join your guild! I went to your website and registered. Hopefully this is all I have to do? My character's name is Kiim Siim as well.
Cheers!
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:P I will let Herah know about the first post so she can change the link. :sweatdrop: I can't believe im back again ... guess I will always return.