PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: zanzibar on September 29, 2006, 10:27:33 pm
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If you're having one of your "RPs" and you aren't keen on the naturalistic or organic approach - that is to say, you don't let anyone join it - then perhaps you should exercise common sense and avoid holding it in an extremely public place such as in front of Harnquist.
If you insist on having it in a public place, don't get snooty if others try to join in. You really shouldn't get snooty in reaction to people simply reacting to you like a normal person would. I probably don't have much sympathy for you in the first place, but I have even less if it seems you're going out of your way to create trouble for yourself.
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ooh ooh! pick me!
yeah, I (for once) completely agree.
over the past week or so, I've been seeing people RPing, joining in on most occasions too, generally this new wave of 'evil' RPing attempts (you know those peopel that think evil is runnign around killing people and being invincible) has continuously come up in public places, first with rinasho at harnquists, then some guy in the temple (I proceeded to explain to him that by oding such things in the temple the priests and people visiting to pray would have lynched him in seconds) and then the same guy is in the tavern ><
i eman come on, if your;e going to sadistically murder someone you're going to take your time to do it, enjoy doing it and ensure you are not disturbed in such things by being well isolated >_>
so many times i've felt like just walking up to the so called 'unstoppable' evil guy and jamming a dagger through his eye socket, because in reality, that's what my character would do, none of this weepy "oh noes he's evil!" malarke
/endrant
mm cookies
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Sounds interesting. Can I get a vague example of the snootiness? I'm presuming it's very clearly OOC.
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oh no, it's all been 'IC' just done so poorly it disrupted many other players RP to a point that I got fed up with trying.
it bugs me that everyone seems to RP some hero or evil mastermind with unbeleivable abilities already, me? no, I can just about hold my own against the wildlife, I'm learning the crafts and happy with it, that is until some evil guy comes along, murders someone, then goes invisible due to their 'stealth skills beyond measure' then a hero guy comes running in and the two start dodging each others atatcks before even throwing them. *deep breath*
guess i'll just go now..
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Reminds me of some other discussions...
http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=25257.0: About God-RPing. The funny thing about this is that nobody ever does it, yet we keep seeing it. The God-RPer will deny they do it, and even say they hate it when others do it... Guess we should call it "miracle" RP instead.
http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=25360.0: About some evil RPing. Some actions that are presented as evil are more chaotic than evil, actually...
http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=24849.0: About meetings and "secret" conversations in the middle of the plaza. Don't expect to have a private conversation if you choose to talk surrounded by 100 innocent bystanders.
http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=25504.0: And about more evil RPing...
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Not to discredit what Keyaz is saying, but I'm also thinking of RPs involving good characters who should be receptive to interactions with those around them, especially given their choice of location.
I have a theory. It's possible that these individuals pride themselves on their ability to roleplay, act, and write storylines. They want to broadcast their activities and show off to the community just how elite they are at their craft. But at the same time, they want to highten their elite status through exclusiveness. Their goal is to have others 'around' but not 'involved'.
I find it distasteful. Not only is it bad roleplaying, but it's bad for the community - especially new players who want to get to the good stuff instead of killing rats.
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I agree. Besides, everyone knows that only I can RP evil. My skills in roleplaying, acting, and writing storylines exceed everyone elses. Only a select few can rp with me, I'm too damn good. God asked to join the group, denied.
/me stops copying zanzi's post.
But really, I'm getting alot of the, "Join MY rp? I've been here for hundreds of years and you're obviously new." reaction. Punks. RAWR
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If it wasn't you ... on, no, then I would confess that I'm biased... ;)
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Well, I don't feel blamed, simply because I appeared way too late. At least so it was easy for me to play "Ignore that guy, I don't know what he's crying about." This is all I heard from you - obviously only the rest of some whining and wailing:
[ Removed a quote of 6 sentences, only containing cries about someone who came back, and then would never come back again... ]
Reading this thread now, I wish I appeared earlier to witness such a great and well planned roleplay, which was not taken as a gift by everyone. I could only rate correctly what I saw as a whole...
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LigH, your post is a bit schizophrenic. Could you clear it up for me? I see a chatlog of something I said in game today but I'm not too sure what is has to do with the thread.
I'll stop "whining and wailing" if you start making sense.
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Oh, I can be hard to understand sometimes...
As I wrote: All I heard from you, when I appeared at the plaza, was that in the quote. So I am sure you don't mean the little group I met and talked with, when you complained about "exclusive RPs".
Furthermore, people ignoring major action around them is quite usual. Unfortunately, of course... I am not surprised anymore about people who prefer not to settle a fight next to them, but rather mock about a victim bleeding at their shoes.
Not everyone is always an adventuring hero.
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Ok... so I made a thread about people doing stupid things, and you came to the conclusion that I was talking about you? Is this an admission of guilt on your part?
By the way, it's against forum policy to post logs like that without permission. I don't recall you ever asking me for such permission, nor do I recall ever giving it to you. And I'm still not sure why you're accusing me of "whining and wailing", or how anything I've said could be interpretted as such. I'm still more interested in this inadvertent admission of yours, but I figure in the interest of good communication we might as well make sure we fully understand one another.
Edit: Kind of implicit in the above is the request to edit your post to remove the inappropriate content. Making posts that drip with sarcasm and thinly veiled insults is one thing, but posting an editted log is just rude.
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and you came to the conclusion that I was talking about you?
No - exactly the opposite.
Apart from my point that no one is "guilty" when he decides to ignore one roleplay over another.
And the (removed) snipped only contained the "proof" that I missed your roleplay. If that offends you, then I can only quote DaveG.
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well I suppose there may be a reason to post here about such role players but chances are good that whoever it was that was conducting the offending play will never see it as they do not follow the forums. It would seem to me that the appropriate action is to gently mock IC the play by treating the character as someone who is clearly delusional. the more amusing you can be the more likely they will get the picture. Of course "gently" is the key word in the phrase. You must try to get your point across in a way that does not offend but merely edutains. If this doesn't work, well, you are not the RP Police, so ignore it and go somewhere else where you don't have to be bothered by it.
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and you came to the conclusion that I was talking about you?
No - exactly the opposite.
Apart from my point that no one is "guilty" when he decides to ignore one roleplay over another.
And the (removed) snipped only contained the "proof" that I missed your roleplay. If that offends you, then I can only quote DaveG.
You concluded that this thread had nothing to do with you, so you made a post proving that you weren't responsible? You even went so far as to post a chatlog of this kind of thing not happening?
It seems obvious that you think what I've been getting at happened during the event you were witness to. You saw the whole thing though, apart from something that happened a number of days ago. That's the sum of my involvement in that roleplay this time around. But it's slightly odd that you would relate that whole thing to this thread. Was something said to you that fueled your interest in this thread? Also, what does DaveG have to do with it?
In a situation like the one you brought up, I think it would be entirely in character to dismiss the person as some lunatic going on about nothing. There are times when it's in character to be dismissive of others, even if you're suggesting that this particular event was influenced by something out of game.
Edit: This statement of yours is weird:
Apart from my point that no one is "guilty" when he decides to ignore one roleplay over another.
What does this mean exactly?
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You can not Roleplay everything, nor every story that others are playing. It is not possible. Some things must be ignored. Deal with it, as that is never going to change. If you want a world that reacts to everything anyone ever does, and you have to have a response to all stimuli, follow these instructions:
1: Turn off PS.
2: Turn off your computer.
3: Rotate your chair away from your keyboard and get up.
4: Find a thing called a door.
5: Open it an go through if you see sunlight, or feel the wind. If not, find another door until you do.
6: Congrats. You have just entered a fully immersiv world where everyone has to follow the same rules.
7: Enjoy.
If you can't handle that, then you will just have to deal with some people roleplaying that the plaza is empty, even though it is not. Simply do the same in turn. Roleplay that they are not there. Stop being a ruleplay nazi.
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/me chuckles.
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LigH, let us step away from the matter of who is in the situation to complain and who isn't, for a moment.
Even though there is little to nothing that can be done about it, there is a problem with "exclusive RPs", wether or not they are held in public areas. As far as I can see, say is and will allways be public, free for everyone to observe and free for everyone to participate as well, and by the pure principle of it, it is meant for participants to communicate. There are other channels, such as "group" "tell" and "guild", which are suited for private conversation, "say" however is not one of them.
I do know very well, that it is tempting to ignore that "blasted n00b", who just wouldn't fit into the RP context right now, however, as long as this "blasted n00b"'s actions are in character you are supposed to take them in character, or, should you really find out that the pure IC reactions of someone else disrupt your RP, rethink wether it is appropriate to RP in a public channel. I know out of first hand, back from the days when I foolishly thought myself a "good roleplayer", to roleplay in say channel, hoping that someone "leet" will come by and join in, however, it is rather foolish to categorize people, without sufficiently knowing them, and further exclude them from the very purpose of this game.
Last but not least, I would like to remind everyone that Roleplaying is a group activity, not a solo experience. You might have thought up some nice storyline, but still it is not "Your Personal Roleplay", but the roleplay of everyone who is or gets involved. Be open-minded, you might actually find something new, and exciting.
-Cyl
Disclaimer
Whenever I used the referrence "you", I did not mean any particular person, but the concerned reader. I did not point my finger to anyone, and I did not try to offend someone.
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You can not Roleplay everything, nor every story that others are playing. It is not possible. Some things must be ignored. Deal with it, as that is never going to change.
I agree completely.
LigH: I don't see how you've "caught" me. I responded to your posts politely, even your post that was rightfully deleted, and I gave you the benefit of the doubt until the end. In keeping with that, if there's any way I can help you avoid such mistakes in the future, send me a private message.
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i have a question...why are rp's so incredibly dramatic?
not only do i find them EXTREMELY exclusive to not-so-new people like me, but i find them so outrageously ridiculous that i wish i could go
*kalika pulls out a gun and shoots herself*----except guns arent real here
i see people running around screaming about rape, about murder, about being a vmapire...and yeha ok thats great for rp...but isnt there any resemblance of relaity in this game? do people REALLY run around screaming about being raped? to people really murder each other in fronts of a hundred innocent bystanders...and then when you try and say something about it...you get dirty looks
well at least i ahve...
maybe im being too much oif a realist..which i find funny seeing as that im told i spent too much time in fantasy
but...i dunno...cant there be otehr types of rps where it isnt so exclusive and dramatic?
and if it is why cant we jsut move it somewhere far away from civilization
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sounds like you need a hug :]
I don't have much to do as of late so I go wandering, if i bump into people I'll have a nice chat if they can spare the time, it's generally the quiet people that can really bring things to life.
ooh, and pop into Kada's for an ale, or milk, or something wet, I'm sure Hyuken will be happy to listen to you, if he's not asleep underneath the bar
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Kalika, I agree with you. I think there are a few reasons for why things are the way they are now. First, a lot of the regular players here see RP in terms of pre-written linear scripts. To them, roleplaying means to act out the script. Deviation isn't encouraged, and endings are predetermined. I'm exagerating, but people who have been around for a while know there's a lot of truth to what I'm saying.
So we have this emphasis on story writing and play-acting. At the same time, there's been a real escalation of plotlines. Instead of mending the wounds between two lovers or finding someone who's lost or some sort of conflict between guilds, every RP is an attempt to out do the last RP. So instead, we have RPs that introduced Octarchs and world leaders with ridiculous background stories. We have new gods and new races being introduced by players. Every RP has the fate of the universe hanging in the ballance. It's pretty silly.
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I haven't been on Planeshift in over a month, and honestly this was one of the reasons. If you'll follow Zhai's link on the first page I started a thread about this a while ago, and it makes me angry to know that there are still problems.
Now, I don't want anyone to stop RPing. I love RPing, I even moderate a huge text-based RP forum. However, if the RP isn't going to be open to everyone and people are going to be booted up the arse for trying to be included—or even just asking questions—I don't want to be a part of it. Just like in the real world, there are cliques on PS, and just like in the real world there's nothing we can do about them. However, I really do think that, if you're doing something private, take it to a private area. You're asking for a curious bystander's question if you're doing something out in the open, and if you're going to lash out at them for that, then you really need a reality check. Don't act like you own this world, kay? ;)
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i like your name..thoughtcrime...
(is it based on 1984?)
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I totally agree with you Kalika. I have seen many people running around protesting 'How evil they are' and 'How they are going to murder people.'
If you did this in real life it would be..
1. A padded cell...
2. A padded ce..
3. A padd..
You get the idea.
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ahahah \\o// oh today was SWEET
i was trying to amke a weapon, had like 5 murders *possible exaggeration, possibly not*
and on the laanx worldserver:..........stop fighting at the plaza of hyldaa and move the fights to somewhere else....."
ieeee made me so happy
hate to sound all whiny and etc...but i got so tired of being asked to duel :D :D
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Haha. I love it when people ask you to duel after they say im going to murder you.
/me walks up to someone. Can I murder you please?
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Many thanks, Kalika - now this topic starts to get interesting...
For a long time, I took part in a very deep plot, let's call it "The Fate of the Purrties". With the term "deep", I mean especially that it lasts already months, if not years. Most of the time, there was a lot of talking, get-to-know, developing of characters. Now and then, a nuisance interrupted the sweet life, and brought exciting action - but without god-playing, and usually without eternal death.
Well, true ... there is a determined plot behind. But in contrast to other roleplaying "events", there was not much hurry, there was no enforcing of "visitors" to take serious part in it, and most of all: Personality and interaction was the main concept, and plot related "instructions" (via tells) were just recommendations or offers, not rules.
Unfortunately - real life struck, and the plot was suddenly finished before I knew. But I always enjoyed when I could take part, and I will try to be there in case the plot may be continued one day.
What I want to say with this reply? -- That there are also good examples. And that success takes some time. It is possible to make a flexible plot - but probably only when you avoid a few things: Invulnerability, tight schedules, and detailed roadmaps. Fun cannot be forced, it will just happen.
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Keep in mind I have nothing against things being written out before hand. I think that's part of what makes things good - when there's someone controlling things and setting variables. But it should ALWAYS allow individuals to make choices based on their characters, and the players involved shouldn't be aware of everything that's going on and what every outcome of every decision is. I think everything being improvised is bad just as everything being pre-written is bad.
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So what your saying Zanzi, is that it is better if things arn't toally planned out, but have a loosely fitting storyline/direction?
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So what your saying Zanzi, is that it is better if things arn't toally planned out, but have a loosely fitting storyline/direction?
When I write an RP, this is what I do: There's some sort of conflict or goal. There are people who are "in" on it who are helping to run it. There are people who are not "in" on it, but are involved. Those are the ones who are truly playing it. I set up events and conflicts and goals for the playing players. They're then left to interact with the people who are "in" on it, and during this they make choices. The outcome of everything depends on the choices they make. It might be as simple as "success" versus "failure", or it might be more complex. Let's say there's some sort of incredibly important item that someone ended up being entrusted with, perhaps a piece of paper. They might have discovered that there are different things they can do with the paper. There might be some sort of slimeball who offered to buy it (reward = trias), there might be some sort of arcane guild who expressed interest in it (reward = trias, perhaps membership in the guild), and there might be a hero character who needs it but can offer no reward (but might give a reward anyway, but that's secret). The player might know that if he doesn't give the item to the hero, some one might suffer, but he thinks there's no reward for doing the right thing. I tend to like situations like that because it forces players to think about who they are as a character. Even if they're approaching the game without any sense of staying in character, as human beings they're still thinking in terms of doing the right thing.
Another example is when I framed a kran for murder. He was relatively new to the game, and a number of my friends helped me have some fun with him. We got him to buy a dagger in the plaza, then deliver it to someone in the tavern very secretively. A lot of really suspicious things happened, but the kran went through with it and recieved a large sum of money. The result? We made a very convincing case for the kran being guilty of murder, and the entire community was manipulated into hunting the kran down. The community even put him on trial without me or my friends encouraging it. We all got off scott free and the kran was freaked out as heck.
One problem with such things is that you might end up having more characters orchestrate it than you end up with characters playing it. That's when alts come in handy, but you're still weighing effort versus reward. That's why I want to set up some sort of infrastructure that allows me and others to run events concurrently and renewably.
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@ Croconil:
Exactly - IMHO, often a "loose route" is more useful than a "strict route". It makes the difference between "playing for people" and "playing with people".
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uhm, hm
theres a difference between being absolutely ridiculous and actualy having a story...i can see why you would have a deep storyling to your rp, but when it inadvertently (sp?) involves others...then its becomes ridiculous...
for example-someone would shout that they were burning alive or something...not tell, not say...but SHOUT..then they would see me and DEMAND that i go and sit there with them and pity them because they were burning...im sorry but i would rather have mined or hunted than to have sat there ad get yelled at becuase my rp wasnt up to their par
what i guess i mean is...if its gonna be outrageous (i think this was during the whole vampire phase) then keep it to yourselves somewhere far away then to involve others in it, unless they wanted to be involved..it could easily been said that i didnt HAVE to sit there and listen to this person whine, along with their family and friends...but then i wouldve been OOC becasue my character is specifically teh type of person that would sit there and try to give the burning person something good to remember...
i ahve quite a few other examples where i wouldve been OOC not to ahve done anything, but i somehow got involved in a mess that i really didnt want to get involved in...
also, rp shouldnt be completely scripted...taht more for a story type of thing than actual online game experience---in my opinion at least
i do think that there could be a certain line to follow up on, but since we are interacting with others who ahve their own rp experience/personality/etc... than it should be more of letting the story evolve by itself
jsut my two cents...
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I guess you are returning to the statement: Don't force people to join your play, and don't force people to let you join.
People with similar "levels of roleplaying" may find each other; best without force.
Just the places where different people meet, may need a few more restrictions. Players who don't want to be "disturbed", may better avoid such places. Or they will accept the alternatives: Tolerate, or ignore.
Or did I miss a better compromise? ...
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I guess you are returning to the statement: Don't force people to join your play, and don't force people to let you join.
People with similar "levels of roleplaying" may find each other; best without force.
Just the places where different people meet, may need a few more restrictions. Players who don't want to be "disturbed", may better avoid such places. Or they will accept the alternatives: Tolerate, or ignore.
Or did I miss a better compromise? ...
I don't think compromise is ideal. Compromise in this instance means "letting people do wrong". If people just want to use PS as a platform to do whatever they want, then they are outside of the community. They don't even enter into the equation except as trouble.
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The only compromise I would agree with would be a role play/role play guild open to everyone. The Purrties had the right idea, but even they weren't totally open to everyone. And for anyone who doesn't want their RP to be public—and I don't condone it...or discourage it, either—take it to a private location or a private channel. Simple as that, that'll keep you from being bothered.
Really, people shouldn't be makng such a hullabaloo (I can't believe I just used that word in a serious situation) over a MMORPG. ;)
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hullabaloo (I can't believe I just used that word in a serious situation) over a MMORPG. ;)
Haha. All the gangsters use that word :P