PlaneShift
Fan Area => The Hydlaa Plaza => Topic started by: Creathor on February 16, 2003, 04:36:35 am
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I was very suprised by the peace demonstrations all over the world. I was very glad to see the whole world unite for once for a good cause. I seriously don\'t know what Bush and Blair are thinking if they still plan to go to war, I think it\'s prety clear that neither one of them is going to get elected if this happens.
It looks like there\'s still hope for mankind after all :)
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Yeah, my family is all Bush, They are retards, they actually believe Bush will run again and win again, yeah right. I don\'t think they will be able to go to war, if they do it will be without NATO or the support of the rest of Europe. I don\'t know what is with Bush, he has a crayon in his head or something. It is like he WANTS World War III.
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Bush won\'t back out. Not with all the preparations he has allready made.
What I think is really amazing, is that the whole frigging world seems to be against it, except for a bunch of high-ups who rule those countries. And they don\'t give a shit about what the people they represent think. That\'s absurd.
I think it would be democratic if you let the people decide, afterall THEY are in fact the country.
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I think it is so funny that the whole world is sayiong the US has no right to go to war with Iraq. Then as they protest for peace, American Embasies are fire bombed, an American plain is shot down and its passengers are taken hostage, a terrorist troupe is discovered in Sadi that were attempting an assult on Americans in the area... The whole world sits back and says we want peace whiole the entire time Americans are being killed.
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Whoa! Americans are being killed! I guess american lives are more important then other peoples, considering 500,000 people in Iraq died from starvation after The US and UN applied sanctions on the country.
I guess its Saddam\'s fault because he didn\'t figure out a way for his people to eat oil or sand. Having barely anywhere to grow food is no excuse! He should invent new ways to cook sand.
And having all 10 americans killed in the Gulf war! What kind of lunatic thinks of killing the important americans besides americans themselves? Who \"accidently\" killed 100 of their own troops.
It\'s not like Iraqi lives are worth anything, because one american life is worth 100,000 Iraqi.
(Notice; this is sarcasm in reply to some person with below average intelligence implying previously on this thread saying \"Americans are being killed\")
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Kendaro thats just the media that presents it that way - naturally as soon as an american is involved you will see any incident in your news. If they where just local \'natives\' there wont be a single peep on your channels about it.
Beside why are the iraqis the root of all evil? only cause they got a dictator that is just as greedy for power as Bush they are not all crazy terrorists.
Link when you do a headcount of Bush voters in your family you will probably find that it is likely to have \'Uncle Bush\' for another 4 years.
Fear is an excellent way to strengthen your power *points towards germany in the 1930ths*
Edit: Hmm Canute people havent got a below-average-intelligence only cause they trust the propaganda they hear everyday - its just that you cant make up your own mind if you havent got a good access to independent media.
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We could sit here and talk about the evils of both countries and all that would come of it is the two or three of us mad at each other with no outcome at all. I could go on about the UN suplies poisoned by Iraqies so to taint the UN. I could go on about Iraq using Americans in their country as human shields for their military bases. I could go on about how Sudam horded food supplies for his inner circle while his subjects and outlining troupes starved. I could then go on about how American media is private owned while others are government run and only say what their politicians allow. Then you would reply I was just biased cause that\'s all my media\'s fault. Well the same can be said about other medias. No one is more right than the other. You can\'t say I am non intelegent cause what I know is different that what you know. You base your opinions on what you are told and I base mine on what I am told. Each will believe we are right but niether can say one is better than the other. For the exact reasons you argue against me, I can use them to argue against you. It is a no win sittuation so it ends.
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the only Win/Win situation in my oppinion is to get rid of both Sadaam and Bush.
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Originally posted by Canute
Whoa! Americans are being killed! I guess american lives are more important then other peoples, considering 500,000 people in Iraq died from starvation after The US and UN applied sanctions on the country.
when you live in america, your damn right that american lives are more important, some of those people were friends and family, and dont blame the dieing completely on us, they do have someone to lead their country, if in fact thats what hes concentrating on, or is he busy with blowing somebody up, I dunno, lets not take the chance.
Also I suggest this thread get deleted before it gets out of hand, I\'ve already seen it happen, it will turn mature people into what will appear to be morons babbleing on about their standings on the situation and not listening to others, only flaming.
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Originally posted by FMiddy
it will turn mature people into what will appear to be morons babbleing on about their standings on the situation and not listening to others, only flaming.
haha, thats exactly right...its sort of like when people argue about religion, some think the others are idiots for believing in something and others think they are idiots for believing in something else...when neither are proved right or wrong
but i dont think it should be deleted, its not against the forum rules to argue about politics, although if it get sout of hand it could always be locked
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I won\'t delete it as long as it stays a real debate and doesn\'t devolve into a flame war. That is what this OT forum is for.
I\'m an American and in favor of the war, as 70% of us are. Here are my takes on it.
a) Bush says Iraq has weapons of mass destruction. Saddam Hussein says he doesn\'t have them. People who are against this war are simply choosing to believe a crazy dictator of Stalinist or Hitlerian proportions over Bush--who love him or hate him has never committed genocide or used nerve agents on his own people. By supporting Saddam, you are making a choice about who you believe and what side is right and what side is wrong. It\'s a sad day for the world that so many people think Saddam has more credibility than Bush.
b) It has been said that Bush is only doing this for the money, or because he wants to control the oil over there. This is really the opposite of the truth. The USA only gets 17% of its oil from ANY Arab country, and 0% from Iraq. The countries who get oil from Iraq, and who have the most economic ties to Iraq at this point, are who? France, Germany and Russia--the exact three countries who oppose this war the most. THEY are the ones who care only about money and not about morality or the safety of the western world.
It is amazing to me that the same left-wing (generalization) people who rush to the defense of baby seals and endangered whales don\'t care one iota about the Kurds being wiped out by Saddam. He is guilty of more war crimes than Milosevic ever thought about, and he is defended and his actions justified by the people most horrified by the crimes of others. Why is this?
My personal opinion is that much of the world is simply reacting against America doing *anything*, and not really because they want to defend Saddam. The rightness of the American position is almost irrelevant in that context, and Saddam benefits--sitting back and laughing at the crazy westerners letting him taunt the UN over and over.
If people are really just against America, no matter who America is opposing or what crimes those people have committed, then they are not our allies and we should stop pretending they are. Kudos to Tony Blair for standing up for what is right instead of having his ego wounded by the fact that America is more powerful than him.
If the French are so convinced that Saddam is innocent and that he is in the right on this issue, they should send troops to Iraq and defend Iraq from us nasty Americans. I\'m sure that if an innocent country were being wrongfully invaded by France, America would defend it... Does France have the courage of its convictions or not? I hear those Mirages are kickass planes... ;-)
Respectfully submitted,
- Venge
p.s. I am sure this is going to change no one\'s mind, since everyone appears to not be letting the facts get in the way of their opinions here. Still interested in reactions though. :-)
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you know venge, we of the free western world have got these rules. And i believe somewhere in those rules it says something like that in order to start a war the other side must pose an immediate threat.
Now, as much of dictator and evil man that Sudam may be. He isn\'t an immediate threat as of now.
Those rules separate us from the \'savages\'. We just don\'t attack people cause we don\'t like what they\'ve done in the past. We are civilised. If we deny those rules we become one of them so to speak.
And what are we gonna get out of this? I garantee that after two months of bombimg and thousands of innocent lives have been wasted, Hussein will still not be captured and Amarica will leave empty handed. All for nothing.
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This whole thing makes me sick. The majority of Americans are against a war and no other country supports it and some even are openly aggressive to the notion. It stinks like shit. There is no threat, and the worst part of it is that it is enacted to defend \'our\' (I use that term lightly because although I am born and raised in America, I definately do not consider myself an American) honour. I go to a very liberal college that even demonizes Bush for what he is allowing to happen and the problem is not that people are judging him harshly, it\'s that they are right. We\'ve been going steady in obeying our own laws in this peace thing for the past couple decades, why must we become more of an asshole now when evenness and patience are the greatest virtues. That\'s the end of my rant.
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Let me put it this way: Both Hussein and Bush should be convicted for their crimes against humain rights. Both of them are the same - the only problem is that Bush got slightly more weapons of mass destruction than Hussein ... so who do you think is more dangerous?
Venge its nice to make a list of what Saddam did - we all know those crimes and that doesnt mean we have forgotten about them but we dont want to let Bush do the same thing to civilians.
But lets face the fact that if the US wanted to kill Saddam they would have done it already - they are happy with him cause they can start a war against him every now and then and get the parlament to raise the budget for war (which in return creates many workplaces and help some people to stuff their pockets with more money).
Let me present you some numbers: The gulf war in 1991 cost a total 60.000.000.000 Dollar - if i remember it right around 10-20% where covered by the US ... Germany itself paid 17.000.000.000 Dollar for this war and kuwait another big chunk of it.
Estimation for this war are 200 - 250 billions - so now take a good guess why Bush wants the UN to chip in? ah you are already getting a glimps of where i am heading? ... right - it will help america to get over another 10 years without having to deal with state dept(already reflecting my opinion again but i just cant help it ;)).
I just say we shouldnt discuss this matter to deeply or else it will split the community (and that is what we dont want do we?). Everyone has a dark past to talk about but we all should have learned from what had been done ...
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Ahahaha
Yet another Bush topic on the net
Here\'s my opinion
America vs Irak is like Don Quichotte vs the WindMills. Not only it\'s a waste of time and money to attack Irak, but there are other ways to solve the conflit without killing hundred of innocent people.
Regarding the peace manifestations, as an expert said (and I agree with him), those manifestation wont change USA opinion, but showed to the other contries supporting USA (Italy and England) that they better rethink their position of helping USA in a military intervention.
Finally, I am WAY more scared (and I mean it) by North Korea than Irak, because North Korea has way more reasons to get into a war, because they have absolutly nothing to lose by doing so. They suffer from starvation and bigger problems than Irak can have, plus they have the stuff to make nuclear weapons and eventually launch em on america.
Finally, to all the Bush lovers, I\'d invite you to check out a website that I particulary enjoy to read
http://www.wage-slave.org/scorecard.html
Cheers :)
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Why can\'t we just send a sniper to assassinate Sudam\'s arse? I think Bush just wantsa more control over the iraqi government if he does take him out.
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We can\'t because we have laws about that kinda thing... sooo... let\'s give the Brits say... 100 million dollars to have their assassins to do it and save 300 billion dollars. It sounds like corruption, but its very nutritious. :D
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how about we pump a guy full of acid send him to iraq and tell him that sadaam is trying to steal his soul :)
the only problem is if he starts seeing sadaam everywhere.
nevermind, just finished a calculus exam, my brain is working very slowly.
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Originally posted by Grey
We can\'t because we have laws about that kinda thing... sooo... let\'s give the Brits say... 100 million dollars to have their assassins to do it and save 300 billion dollars. It sounds like corruption, but its very nutritious. :D
Lol, Bush is willing to squash our freedoms to ensure freedom (makes since to me) can\'t he bend the rules a bit???
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Hmmmm I\'d like to round up every peace demonstrator and send them over to Iraq so that they can see what Saddam does to his people. The whole point of going to war with them is to stop them building nuclear weapons. Now I\'m sure some you know what a nuclear weapon is. If not I\'ll simplify it...its a big boom....a big boom that kills MILLIONS of people. Would you rather have us let them build them so that they can use them and kill more people than a war would????
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Originally posted by Dumb Woob
Why can\'t we just send a sniper to assassinate Sudam\'s arse? I think Bush just wantsa more control over the iraqi government if he does take him out.
The History Channel had a show on this, but I only caught a part of it. You can\'t assassinate him because he has multiple \"doubles\". If the US \"killed\" Saddam, he would just keep popping up ...... like a cockroach. Besides, even if you did kill all the Saddams it would do no good. Someone else in his corrupt regime would just pick up the mantle of power.
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eweeeeeeeeeeeee cockroaches
this is getting disgusting
let\'s clean up the air a little :)
I made this pic mod to amuse you guys up a little
(http://pages.infinit.net/ladyly/bug-killer2.jpg)
Oh I\'m such a silly girl :rolleyes: :D
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I think there is also a fundamental difference between occupying a country to find and destroy its WMDs than to simply take out a nation\'s leader with a sniper bullet.
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AendarCallenlasse wrote:
Hmmmm I\'d like to round up every peace demonstrator and send them over to Iraq so that they can see what Saddam does to his people
Perhaps we can round up Americans for a world tour:
How about My Lai ?
500 unarmed civilians raped and murdered by US troops, and attempted cover up
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mylai/Myl_intro.html
http://pathfinder.com/photo/essay/mylai/mylaihp.htm
Or how about the 17 million tons of agent orange dropped on Vietnam, still causing birth defects ?
Guatemala ?
CIA backed death squads
http://www.worldworks.org/ramblings/ciadeath.htm
Actually, lets throw in most of South America for CIA backed and trained deathsquads:
http://alexconstantine.50megs.com/an_international_guide.html
The site below is comprehensive, but disturbing (has an ex CIA and marine talking about what they do to civilians *shudder*)
http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/usgenocide/CrbnCnSthAmrc.html
How could we forget Nicaragua, where the US was found guilty by the world court of practising international terrorism, and fined $17 billion. Every administration has refused to recognise the ruling, and at the time, the administration actually increased their attacks on the country.
http://www.ibon.org/news/if/02/17.htm
How about Laos ? (350,000 civilian deaths due to US bombing) - not the highest estimate
Cambodia ? (600,000 civilian deaths due to US bombing) - again, not the highest estimate.For example, Operation \"Speedy Express\" resulted in 10,899 \"enemy\" deaths ... curiously, the enemy were standing around, unarmed, in rice paddies. You figure it out.
Hmmm, I need to make another message, I\'m running out of space for all the other countries that the US has bombed:
http://www.human-net.org/war-issue/en/facts/usabomb.htm
never mind the ones that they went into and overthrew DEMOCRATICALLY elected governments using violence. The US prefers dictatorships because they are easier to control.
You also said:
Now I\'m sure some you know what a nuclear weapon is. If not I\'ll simplify it
Thanks. The US was nice enough to not waste their time dropping nuclear bombs on military targets. A waste of time indeed ! They just went straight for the civilian populations, so now we now. This had the postive effect of showing all the other countries that they were QUITE insane. Unfortunately, it also means that many foreigners now have a hard time taking the US seriously when they talk about \"human rights\" or nasty terrorists who \"deliberately\" target civilians during a war ...
And Iraq has only got a few missles that extend just past the allowed 150km range. Last time I checked, the US was further away than that. The only \"experts\" you\'ll find who believe Iraq has a real shot at nuclear arms are the same clowns who insist there is a link between Iraq (secular state) and Al-Qa\'ida (devout religious). They can\'t stand each other.
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I remember sitting in a room with friends when Bush gave the state of the union. They became pissed at me because I started to weed out the information that had no real backing and was inconsistant, which was pretty much all the part when he was itching about Saddam. Though I don\'t know if all of your information has proper backing, I know that no one knows what they are talking about. Including me.
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All lies! The heroes from the United States would never do such stuff! Especially not George Bush (sheriff of the world)
The americans are heroes, and if they killed a lot of people in other countries, so what? It\'s America for christ sake. They can do exactly as they want because they are the most powerful nation of the world.
Just think about all the poor americans who have died in the Vietnam war. They just tried to take Vietnam from the bad, bad vietnamese people. Don\'t worry about it, I\'m sure that the Vietnamese families who were slaughtered, raped etc. will forgive the Americans somewhere in a distant future.
Oh, and they can be proud over what the did to Salvadore Allende in the military coup in Chile. I mean, after all he actually had the guts to oppose the Americans, of course he must die.
It\'s ok, after all the Americans saved us from the nazis (but not until America were attacked as well)
Wow, I can\'t wait until the whole world becomes members of the United states. I\'m gonna buy myself a shotgun so I\'m prepared.
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\"I have made good judgements in the past, I have made good judgements in the future.\" - George W. Bush
\"You\'re working hard to put food on your family.\" - George W. Bush
\"I come from Texas.\" - George W. Bush
That\'s all I gotta say ;)
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Fanomatic2000 I think you forgot this:
:]
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Originally posted by Grey
We can\'t because we have laws about that kinda thing...
You have laws against killing people? Hmm dont you have this thing called \'death penalty\' ... what is that again?
The thing is the US would have the possibility to kill saddam anytime and at any place but it is far more economic to have him wandering around and threaten america so that the american people (you) live every day in fear and will buy lots of guns and work hard to pay more taxes in order to fund wars against \'bad\' people who could probably by a small chance kill americans.*
\'War makes money go round\'
*To round it up spread some sarcasm here and there
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we have laws against political assassination... Actually a few years ago 5 CIA men were put undercover to go and assassinate him, but (i guess) someone figured that it would be too obvious, so they were put on trial for conspiracy.
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Originally posted by Grey
we have laws against political assassination... Actually a few years ago 5 CIA men were put undercover to go and assassinate him, but (i guess) someone figured that it would be too obvious, so they were put on trial for conspiracy.
If money can be made, USA will ignore all treaties, rules and regulations. We\'ve seen that many times. ;(
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come on now bush has to blow something up.... after all, america blows something up every decade.....
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our our peace loving people can simply write sudam a note and then bush will put them in a missle (without an explosive charge of course) and shower the letters above one of sudams lovely palaces, he\'s sure to read the notes and stop his evil ways ;)
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Sarcastic? Who? Me? I have no idea of what you\'re talking about ;)
BTW. THAT\'S THE SPRIRIT DW! It\'s Americas RIGHT to blow Iraq to pieces! Proof is only for weaklings!
GOD BLESS AMERICA! :D
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America can\'t find Saddam, and they never will, just like Bin Laden, and Castro (Before they gave up on looking for him). If your ever in the Yahoo chatrooms check out \"Arab Chat:3\" there is a good singer in there that sings a song called \"God Kill America\" I\'m sure he will be happy to sing it for you. I think you and everyone else who says to nuke/kill/do whatever to Iraq should be the one to be thrown in there and get killed yourself.
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I just wish there wont be any wars, or a world war. That\'d suck. Canada would probably end up doing the same thing they did in WWII (putting back conscription), and me and my bro would be sent to the front without a doubt. Army sucks. War sucks. Killing is lame :(
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Americans need to realize if Bush keeps pushing it, this isn\'t going to be a \"War\" like they know it, where America just attacks everything far away from home. The war is going to come home, more suicide bombers, more nuclear weapons.
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I personally think that north korea is much more of a threat....just ask yurself, whats worse..
taking the nukes you have and waving them in yur enemys face and threting them(N.K)
or
bluffing abotu having the capabilitys to make nukes when all you can really do is make stupid little missles
thats my two pence oh well, DIE SADDAM DIE!!!!!
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This is bad.
http://www.publicintegrity.org/dtaweb/report.asp?ReportID=502&L1=10&L2=10&L3=0&L4=0&L5=0
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We\'re not all iraqi-hating, arab-discrimintaing, middle east haters, war is just a necessary evil, you are simply bearing the evil of one thing to hopefully prevent something that is worse. I\'m not sure whether Bush is preventing something from happeneing, or creating something worse, i guess that\'s kinda the argument, eh?
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Could you put that sign down Dumb Woob? I think it\'s annoying X(
Yup, there is no way they will find Saddam. Do you know how many \"Saddams\" there is?
The only thing this will result in is the death of many innocent people X(
BTW. If everybody thought like you did \"Woob\" we would all be dead by now.
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What? Woob\'s sig kicks ass!
And its implied that we\'d all be dead if we thought Woob\'s way, he is Dumb Woob after all.
Also, sometimes war IS a necessary evil, could it have been prevented? yes! But once it goes too far there really is not much of an alternative
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Originally posted by Fanomatic2000
Could you put that sign down Dumb Woob? I think it\'s annoying X(
Yup, there is no way they will find Saddam. Do you know how many \"Saddams\" there is?
The only thing this will result in is the death of many innocent people X(
BTW. If everybody thought like you did \"Woob\" we would all be dead by now.
Actually we wouldn\'t, we would be a huge mass of computer-nerds, that wouldn\'t really give a poo about what was going on unless it affected their internet connection. We would do lots of thinking but no acting, because acting involves movement, which isn\'t good practice for a woob.
EDIT: I forgot to mention my freedom fries, freedom fries are the best, I\'m eagerly awaiting freedom poodles.
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Let\'s cool it on the personal stuff and just debate the issues please.
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I saw two very interesting articles about why the French and Germans are supporting Iraq so much... Here is the first one, pasted from Stratfor.com (a pay site):
It is also important to understand a not really unknown but oddly neglected aspect of French policy: the personal relationship between French President Jacques Chirac and Saddam Hussein.
The relationship dates back to late 1974, when then-French Premier Chirac traveled to Baghdad and met the No. 2 man in the Iraqi government, Vice President Saddam Hussein. During that visit, Chirac and Hussein conducted negotiations on a range of issues, the most important of these being Iraq?s purchase of nuclear reactors.
In September 1975, Hussein traveled to Paris, where Chirac personally gave him a tour of a French nuclear plant. During that visit, Chirac said, ?Iraq is in the process of beginning a coherent nuclear program and France wants to associate herself with that effort in the field of reactors.? France sold two reactors to Iraq, with the agreement signed during Hussein?s visit. The Iraqis purchased a 70-megawatt reactor, along with six charges of 26 points of uranium enriched to 93 percent -- in other words, enough weapons-grade uranium to produce three to four nuclear devices. Baghdad also purchased a one-megawatt research reactor, and France agreed to train 600 Iraqi nuclear technicians and scientists -- the core of Iraq?s nuclear capability today.
Other dimensions of the relationship were decided on during this visit and implemented in the months afterward. France agreed to sell Iraq $1.5 billion worth of weapons -- including the integrated air defense system that was destroyed by the United States in 1991, about 60 Mirage F1 fighter planes, surface-to-air missiles and advanced electronics. The Iraqis, for their part, agreed to sell France $70 million worth of oil.
During this period, Chirac and Hussein formed what Chirac called a close personal relationship. As the New York Times put it in a 1986 report about Chirac?s attempt to return to the premiership, the French official ?has said many times that he is a personal friend of Saddam Hussein of Iraq.? In 1987, the Manchester Guardian Weekly quoted Chirac as saying that he was ?truly fascinated by Saddam Hussein since 1974.? Whatever personal chemistry there might have been between the two leaders obviously remained in place a decade later, and clearly was not simply linked to the deals of 1974-75. Politicians and businessmen move on; they don?t linger the way Chirac did.
Partly because of the breadth of the relationship Chirac and Hussein had created in a relatively short period of time and the obvious warmth of their personal ties, there was intense speculation about the less visible aspects of the relationship. For example, one unsubstantiated rumor that still can be heard in places like Beirut was that Hussein helped to finance Chirac?s run for mayor of Paris in 1977, after he lost the French premiership. Another, equally unsubstantiated rumor was that Hussein had skimmed funds from the huge amounts of money that were being moved around, and that he did so with Chirac?s full knowledge. There are endless rumors, all unproven and perhaps all scurrilous, about the relationship. Some of these might have been moved by malice, but they also are powered by the unfathomability of the relationship and by Chirac?s willingness to publicly affirm it. It reached the point that Iranians referred to Chirac as ?Shah-Iraq? and Israelis spoke of the Osirak reactor as ?O-Chirac.?
Indeed, as recently as last week, a Stratfor source in Lebanon reasserted these claims as if they were incontestable. Innuendo has become reality.
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Here is the 2nd one:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31190
For those who don\'t like to click, here is one excerpt:
According to the latest issue of G2 Bulletin, Iraq\'s own reports to the United Nations Security Council show that German firms made up the bulk of suppliers for Iraq\'s weapons of mass destruction programs.
\"Even while playing the role of peacemaker looking only for solid proof of arms violations by Iraq, German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder knows the truth ? that he and his country have provided much of the equipment and expertise Iraq has needed to reinvigorate its efforts to build weapons of mass destruction,\" the newsletter reports.
...
The German firm Preussag is the leading supplier of chemical agents and production equipment to Iraq, according to documents turned over to the U.N. by Baghdad. Preussag is a subsidiary of Europe\'s largest travel agent and tour operator TUI. It is also a company that has been very supportive of Schroeder. In early 1998, when Schroeder was running for re-election as prime minister of the state of Lower Saxony, he had the state buy 51 percent of Preussag\'s troubled steel division to the tune of $500 million, claiming that 12,000 jobs were at stake. Schroeder went on to win the crucial election, setting him up to become chancellor.
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Well, I don\'t know a lot of all that, but I have heard many things about European division, etc.
The point is that I have read the famous letter wrote by 8 european leaders. I have heard what Chirac saids about Irak. And, when you pass through all US-ass licking on the letter, you have the same message than Chirac\'s: \"We want to wait for the UN conclusions, and try to avoid the war by all ways possible. If it\'s unavoidable, then we\'ll be there.\"
Apparently, the media really want to create ennemies where there are just differences of style.
Anyway, I personnally am against wars, but I reckon that one would be the easiest way to end with the mess started with that gulf war. The problem is that I by now have heard nothing about the post-war Irak situation: the kurd problem, a new democracy imposed to a broken people, etc. It\'s not that easy to remove a dictatorship if the country is not ready.