PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Suno_Regin on October 03, 2006, 02:39:20 am
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Listen, evil is NOT running around killing people. That's being a criminal, or just being an annoying baffoon. Evil is planning to overthrow some kind of government, maybe follow some sort of religion that requires human sacrifices...just something around there. "Waging war on everyone" or "turning everyone evil" is just...stupid! You're not evil, you're just annoying. Please understand, there's a huge difference between being evil, and being a criminal. Criminals aren't evil, they're just greedy. Now, maybe if that person tried to overrule some sort of government, or maybe take control of an area and force the residents to pay him for "protection" or something like that would be considered evil. But I'm seeing so many wannabes it's pathetic. Being evil is making a huge impact on someone, or maybe a group of peoples' lives, and endangering them. Running around killing people and stealing is just you being a criminal, which would fit along gangs or something. That's more of a...neutral-evil? I don't know what it's called, but it's getting annoying seeing everyone want to be evil, and really just killing everyone and taking their cookies.
Evil guilds should maybe have a leader, someone to command a small army, or wait and plan out some sort of attack that will endanger some peoples' lives and actually make an impact on Yliakum - something that the local guards won't be able to stop. Compare this with pickpocketing. Someone steals your purse, they run, the guards kill them or knock them out. The small army, or just mastermind, will probably work around the guards, maybe burn some buildings or something? Then they'll disappear and wait for another attack.
I'm not saying that's evil, but it's more of a step towards becomming evil. The true definition of evil would basically be something huge, not what's going on right now with all the vampires, wannabes, and criminals.
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I hope I'm an evil char and not just plain annoying.... *hasn't the slightest clue because people can't judge you correctly if they can't do it right themseves*
EDIT: I ment this on my Nerule alt.
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Well what are you roleplaying? Basically if you roleplay you're ok, but being a common pickpocket or mass-dueler is pretty much between criminal and nuisance.
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Hmm, on Nerule, IC I avoid fights, or being noticed, now I'm sure you've heard about "The great war?" Nerule is leader of Legion of Chaos. Is it ok if your "evil" char does respect people with usreful abilities (doesn't have to like them though)
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I suppose. Being evil doesn't mean you're crazy or insane, it just means you want to do something that will make other peoples' lives miserable...or something close to that. You're ok, (and no I haven't heard of the war, I haven't been in game forever).
Basically, from what you told me, I'd guess you're one of those honorable evil types, which is perfectly fine. You wouldn't be annoying, as long as you don't go doing retarded things like running around saying you're evil when all you do is steal a couple of trias and kick someone in the knee. =P
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No no, thats a retarded bandit.
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Exactly, but people who act that way say they're true evil or something. >.>
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Im guessin this is directed towards the Dark Vengeance (maybe) were just killin overly goody goodies and anyone who will challenge us gets killed :)
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I don't even know any guilds anymore, I'm just saying that ANYONE who does this crap is more annoying than evil like that claim they are.
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We actually only picked a fight with TWO people and it was all the do-gooders that escalated the situation....and in response Suno we have bigger and better things planned than the mess that took place today.
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Don;t assume there are no masterminds or leaders of big armies waiting to be revealed.
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I know, I'm just saying things need to be better planned, not just randomly popping out and killing people.
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forgive me if i am wrong, but for a war/military action to take place there has to be a reason? who says these were random killings? they were not even murders, they were duels outside of the city. The duels have escalated to animosity between factions.
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i am the guild leader of dark veangeance and we ARE evil we have a plan up or sleeves.... i will say no more and as gharan said we did not start this today we have been rping with 1 person and she called all the do gooders..
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When your target ignores you or calls you "an annoyance" you're not RPing right. You might need to consider how you do your evil deeds. You think running around hydlaa shouting "goodies must die" is fun RP? Looks like you're the only ones having fun, so why don't you go camp your usual rogue and respect other player's right to get involved in the events they wish. You'll be doing your killing and the mob won't care. RP is not about "killing" other characters but interacting with them. As far as I've seen, there's little interaction based on the character's personalities and more in ooc information like guild tabs (good guild/bad guild).
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Thanks Dae, that's what I was getting at.
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daehaz you have seen little of the roleplay involved, because you just havent been involved in it yet. (not through want of trying i might add.) I don't believe i contacted you ooc, so where is this coming from?
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I agree it wasnt carried out properly and does need work but we chose 2 people to do our RP with and half of Yliakum showed up so imo it was GOOD people who escalated the situation.
We tried RP and got OOC slander for our troubles so why even bother?
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But what are you doing that's "evil?"
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Killing stuff :) and singing my awesome war song.
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Well that would be telling wouldnt it Suno?
I agree on the /shouts they were annoying but this cant be all pointed toward evil....good played its part in this mess its just were willing to speak up and be counted
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Killing stuff :) and singing my awesome war song.
So basically you kill whoever you want and chant that you're evil? No.
What's going on right now is everyone's getting involved in trying to stop some "criminal gang" who are commiting mass homocides. No different from what I said earlier, but I could be wrong. I don't know everything about your guild, but I won't pry any information. Killing things isn't the only way to be evil, though.
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When did a duel become a homicide? It was done in a correct place ie not the plaza, and was an accepted duel. we didnt make it a murder YOU did.
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Gondric your response wont help:
Please just give us time Suno we need to get organised and todays mess wont happen again in a hurry.
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... ...or just being an annoying baffoon... ... ...You're not evil, you're just annoying... ...
Don;t assume there are no masterminds or leaders of big armies waiting to be revealed.
Sorry to run off topic a bit here, but I just wanted to add a bit of nostalgia for older members. And a warning to newer ones.
Just two words struck fear into all who heard them, and I shall speak them now, and let others handle the rest. (Muahahahaha)
The Cabal.
Lets just hope those that don't have a plan for their stupidity don't join together to form another one. ;)
..*shivers*
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When did a duel become a homicide? It was done in a correct place ie not the plaza, and was an accepted duel. we didnt make it a murder YOU did.
I'm talking about mass-dueling, not honorable duels between two people or anything like that.
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daehaz you have seen little of the roleplay involved, because you just havent been involved in it yet. (not through want of trying i might add.) I don't believe i contacted you ooc, so where is this coming from?
I didn't say what I said because I wasn't invited or because I was. That has nothing to do with it. I said it because obviously your targets are not enjoying the RP and they should be free to choose not to participate without getting /shouts referring to them or [ooc]. When half the people involved in your event find it OOC annoying, you gotta rethink your approach. I'm all for evil but not for bothering other players. That seems to be happening here and I think this is not your intention. That's all I'm saying.
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That's fari enough daehaz. My only suggestion is, if the other people who we DIDN'T involve think it is annoying, then why stand around and join in? I agree that shouting was uncalled for, and i told the people involved what I thought about it, but still. It is easy to turn around and ignore what people are doing.
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Running around killing people sounds pretty evil to me.
The problem is when people forget that there are more ways to be evil than just that. The bigger problem is when people forget that good and evil are both relative and subjective.
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the whole fighting thing today was stupid
i was semi apart of it...i didnt fight, i watched almsot all of it and i had no IDEA why it happened
all i konw was that ms lorina decided to harass my guild sister and me nad my mother went to her aide when we found out that our sister was outnumbered and being harassed even more, the next thing i know there is a whole group of people yelling and shouting and then all of a sudden everyone is fighting
i mena...was there even a point to any of this nonsense or were people so desperate for entertainment they jus thappened to pick on the first fenki they saw?
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Harassment does not belong in game... call in a GM if there's any unwanted contact. If no GM is around, make chat logs, take screen shots, get the names of people who witnessed it, then go offline. Go to the IRC room #planeshift-gmtalk and get help there.
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Well what are you roleplaying? Basically if you roleplay you're ok, but being a common pickpocket or mass-dueler is pretty much between criminal and nuisance.
Mass dueler? A dark part of your own history Suno? :P
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While stating what is below i want it understood that i dont expect that a game in this stage of developement is capable of fulfilling all of what i wish for, and i count on the players to bring as much of this as possible into the game world.
e‧vil - [ee-vuh l]
–adjective
1. morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked: evil deeds; an evil life.
2. harmful; injurious: evil laws.
3. characterized or accompanied by misfortune or suffering; unfortunate; disastrous: to be fallen on evil days.
4. due to actual or imputed bad conduct or character: an evil reputation.
5. marked by anger, irritability, irascibility, etc.: He is known for his evil disposition.
–noun
6. that which is evil; evil quality, intention, or conduct: to choose the lesser of two evils.
7. the force in nature that governs and gives rise to wickedness and sin.
8. the wicked or immoral part of someone or something: The evil in his nature has destroyed the good.
9. harm; mischief; misfortune: to wish one evil.
10. anything causing injury or harm: Tobacco is considered by some to be an evil.
11. a harmful aspect, effect, or consequence: the evils of alcohol.
12. a disease, as king's evil.
–adverb
13. in an evil manner; badly; ill: It went evil with him.
—Idiom
14. the evil one, the devil; Satan.
The reason I offer this is because much of what is done in the name of evil does fall under the definition of evil. Suno much of what you are saying here,
“Evil guilds should maybe have a leader, someone to command a small army, or wait and plan out some sort of attack that will endanger some peoples' lives and actually make an impact on Yliakum - something that the local guards won't be able to stop. Compare this with pickpocketing.”
expresses the difference between chaotic evil and lawful evil. Lawful evil is scheming insidious uses and manipulates the law etc. Pickpockets and serial duelists are more chaotic or neutral evil. However I agree that much of what is done in PS and called evil is really just doofyness.
The Problem of evil as defined above in relation to PS is difficult to define in few words.
1. morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked: evil deeds; an evil life.
There is no moral structure to oppose. In the real world for instance, Charles Manson may be seen as evil only because he opposes a dominant Christian paradigm (which incidentally is semi present in Yliakum due to bleed over from players to characters) that exists in his culture. There is no clear articulated paradigm to stand in opposition to in Yliakum so even “good guys” seem to react in random chaotic ways to any self styled evil.
2. Harmful; injurious: evil laws.
Those who are committing random acts of violence and theft are fine under this definition. There are no clearly articulated laws in place, whether good or ill, no known evil rulers officially recognized. [Dark Empire has good thematic development and writing and represents a relatively mature lawful evil.] The current rarity of evil Npcs and even the current state of npc development make it difficult to have a sense of being legitimized as an evil character or even an evil guild.
3. Characterized or accompanied by misfortune or suffering; unfortunate; disastrous: to be fallen on evil days.
Some of roleplaying this is being done, and done well, poisonings diseases and the like happen all the time in Yliakum and sometimes stir things up for a while. The danger of overdoing these things or doing them only decently and often is that is has diminishing returns over time.
Here I would like to see a crystal eclipse or something of the sort, a time of darkness for evil to coalesce around. Evil characters might accrue wickedness and actually alter the terrain near them negatively.
4. due to actual or imputed bad conduct or character: an evil reputation.
Evil is a title you EARN many guilds and the characters that are in them basically just hang a sign around their neck that reads evil and assume that is enough to actually roleplay being evil (sad to say same is true for good). Evil characters need to be the best of roleplayers not the weakest. I am not being critical of anyone currently playing evil in saying this, I mean instead that now that you are “evil” you have to respect that role and it cannot be done without a sincere pursuit of knowledge of the settings. If you think of your favorite evil characters in movies they are often the best actors as well, the same should be true here.
–noun
5. marked by anger, irritability, irascibility, etc.: He is known for his evil disposition.
Krook, nuff said.
6. that which is evil; evil quality, intention, or conduct.
I feel that evil conduct is rarely played well, and I feel this is primarily due to unwillingness of players to put their characters in peril to another’s story’s harm. Better planning on the part of the evil guilds and characters, as well as greater OOC relations with the heads of “good” guilds would help with this.
7. the force in nature that governs and gives rise to wickedness and sin.
Does PS mythology even contain this? Is there a force in nature which compels evil? If so is it clearly defined in a dichotomy? One thing many of us struggle with it the difference between monotheism and polytheism. In Christianity all that gets somewhat confused but basically there is god and then there is an evil force that arises from pride and challenges the established order. How does a person define good and evil when in a polytheistic mode? Much of what we would call good and evil on earth is due to a clear simple dichotomy. Good and evil is more difficult to define and much more relativistic in Yliakum because the forces players currently know about in character have elements of their personalities we would likely attribute to good and evil, but in this mythology each entity has equivalence.
8. the wicked or immoral part of someone or something: The evil in his nature has destroyed the good.
I have seen many people play out internal conflicts of this type and a few do it very well. Again the danger of this is too many doing it poorly.
9. harm; mischief; misfortune: to wish one evil.
Consensual stalking roleplayed and a million other evils
10. anything causing injury or harm: Tobacco is considered by some to be an evil.
More evil locations and items would be a blessing for rpers wishing to do evil. Hydlaa should very like not be the hub of good that it now is, but Ojaveda may well be a fine place to begin to generate a “culture of evil.” This culture is needed if evil is to be taken seriously or be consequential. This raises the idea that evil turns on itself, but while this is so, even chaotic evil organizations exist. An organization wherein the strongest and most brutal rule might be a good way to get your dueling out and promote an as
11. a harmful aspect, effect, or consequence: the evils of alcohol.
More of this would be good drunkards addicts fanatics etc . . .
12. a disease, as king's evil.
Aye.
–adverb
13. in an evil manner; badly; ill: It went evil with him.
As in, Evil in PS is currently evil ;)
—Idiom
14. the evil one, the devil; Satan.
Yes please.
I was a bit rushed i will clarify later.
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definition of evil when used in ps works...maybe
but not the way it was handled today...that wasnt evil..it was rude and stupid
on both parts
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Well what are you roleplaying? Basically if you roleplay you're ok, but being a common pickpocket or mass-dueler is pretty much between criminal and nuisance.
Mass dueler? A dark part of your own history Suno? :P
A part in my history that happened very long ago, mind you. =P
I learn as I go.
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hmm, per definition evil is defined as doing which isn't right, and what is right is slightly to your own opinion. That's why no one say they are evil IC, they don't think what they are doing is wrong.
therefore, what you think is completely wrong and unethical to do is evil... simplicified
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Everyone interprets evil in different ways. Just because you don't veiw something as evil doesn't mean that everyone agree's or has the same point of view. You can't control how people roleplay, you can only add your own sense of roleplay style. That being said, if you don't like a roleplay don't join. It's that easy.
@suno: I have heard many people call serial killers evil. Killing people is evil to most. I don't know where you get that it isn't evil. To be in a frame of mind that doesn't regret hurting and killing people is pretty evil in my eye's.
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Everyone interprets evil in different ways. Just because you don't veiw something as evil doesn't mean that everyone agree's or has the same point of view. You can't control how people roleplay, you can only add your own sense of roleplay style. That being said, if you don't like a roleplay don't join. It's that easy.
@suno: I have heard many people call serial killers evil. Killing people is evil to most. I don't know where you get that it isn't evil. To be in a frame of mind that doesn't regret hurting and killing people is pretty evil in my eye's.
that or you're in no fit mental state to realise what you are doing, claim insanity anyone? :]
the killers people are trying to RP are indeed evil, they're just not doing it well, in public places, in front of a large group of people, then miraculously escape unscathed, blablabla etc. yesm, this has been said before, I'll be quiet now :3
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Evil is not caring about the negative consequences your actions might have on others, or willingly taking actions you know are morally unjust.
Thus: All criminal activity (unless the intent was to do good (a la Robin Hood)) is evil. Also, deliberately harming people is evil.
What you're looking for is a group of persons who are absolutely diabolical. Of course, diabolical is much more entertaining than petty criminal activity, and it takes a more skilled individual (or group.)
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the whole fighting thing today was stupid
i was semi apart of it...i didnt fight, i watched almsot all of it and i had no IDEA why it happened
all i konw was that ms lorina decided to harass my guild sister and me nad my mother went to her aide when we found out that our sister was outnumbered and being harassed even more, the next thing i know there is a whole group of people yelling and shouting and then all of a sudden everyone is fighting
i mena...was there even a point to any of this nonsense or were people so desperate for entertainment they jus thappened to pick on the first fenki they saw?
we were kidnapping her and yes there was a pint to it
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the whole fighting thing today was stupid
i was semi apart of it...i didnt fight, i watched almsot all of it and i had no IDEA why it happened
all i konw was that ms lorina decided to harass my guild sister and me nad my mother went to her aide when we found out that our sister was outnumbered and being harassed even more, the next thing i know there is a whole group of people yelling and shouting and then all of a sudden everyone is fighting
i mena...was there even a point to any of this nonsense or were people so desperate for entertainment they jus thappened to pick on the first fenki they saw?
we were kidnapping her and yes there was a pint to it
then how come no one happened to mention it??
anywho bygones are bygones meh
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Evil: morally wrong or bad; immoral.
Moral: of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong.
This means you are evil once you break a sort of rule that is normally taken by the people you are interacting with.
Characters who kill, kidnap and steal are evil. Most of them are evil and annoying...
The bad part about "Evil" in PS is that people seem to personificate "Evil" as a way of life. That is rather unrealistic, as few people (i.e. mentally crippled) undertake the task of simply being evil without any cause or purpose. If we take a look at the majority of people who are considered evil (in realistic enviroments) we can conclude that they do it for their own benefit, because they are lazy, because they like to feel superior, etc. Most of these people don't go around saying "Yay. We are evil." Because that would be ridiculous, and because they are being good to themselves. (Some of them may be proud to be seen as evil by others, but that is because they despise those people's conduct and way of life, not because they are being evil.)
In my opinion the worst is having some people consider that there are two sides in PS: good and evil. That thought is degrading to PS's setting, as it usually drives people to ignore PS's potential and simply engage in futile feuds.
How to stop this "bullcrap:"- We must understand that there are no Alignments in PS and dissuade those who try to use them
- PS's guilds should lean over their own interests: economic, military, magic, etc, instead of being orientated towards "helping everyone" or "killing everyone."
- Everyone should pay attention to the information provided with the webpage and guides, so we can know how to take advantage of the lovely setting we've got
- When roleplaying people should keep in mind that the setting is supposed to be "realistic" so they should come up with reasons for doing things.
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Well said. And no, before you ask I am not, I repeat not, sucking up! Good job Sangwa. I was going to make a similar post but you beat me to to it.
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Indeed: most evil people have rationalized their course of action to themselves in some way, and believe they are good or at least "not evil." The number of "evil" characters who are like this is low. For an example on how this can work, think of the Sith from Knights of the Old Republic.
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There are other ways to define evil though. Some people don't see evil as something that is social in natures; instead, they almost see "Evil" as having its own kind of power and presense and reality. To such individuals, you don't "break the social order", you "succumb to Evil". They basically see the rules that Sangwa speaks of as natural or God-gievn, and therefore Evil is some sort of real life energy and force, and not just something that happens when we define some else a certain way because they live by different rules than we do.
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the best way i can describe evil is
~ Hate
~ trying obtain power when it is not yours
~ picking fights and arguements just to see the person get mad or upset or to kill them
~ causing conflict
~ misleading people / betraying trust
~ being rude, this n that, causing even the slightest ammount of stress just because you can and you belive nothign can be done about it
and whatever else you can think of that i cant at the moment
hate cant be done in PS not the way we would like to achieve it anyway if we stick to the settings , the story and setting states all races live in harmony. ( wich makes me wander exactly why we fight ulbers and rats and exactly why when the topic of racism comes up we are told we all are one race yet we select what race we are when we make a character. maybe its just something the devs dont want to deal with right now so they say were all the same but were diffrent and there is no explaination for it at least not one that would hold up againsed somone saying " i hate Kran " well if im a dwarf and a bg blue guy comesu p in front of me...no hes not a dwarf and im not going to call him my brother cousins sisters aunts neices grand fathers stepson ...i dont care what nebody says lol )
we cant get power because in order to get power you have to RP and as soon as that little bout of RP is done you no longer have the power because well...its others people controling how much of an effect you can actualy make
were not even sposed to stress other players out. i know most say this is only OOC but i have seen almost CHAOS happen over some IC statments
cant really cause much conflict IC outside of guild happinings. nothign that can effect a large scale of people do to the fact that players dont have any real social ladder system were all just in a big pot being stirred around as equals
betraying somoens trust is easy and can be fun sometimes to see people squirm and whine, but then it eventually gets turned into somethin OOC
in alot of ways yes we can be evil but the settings and the Devs and GM's would most likely prevent allot of it....so i just tend to be a bit of everything sometimes ill say hi sometimes ill ignore you and spit on you when u turn to walk away..thats about all i can do if i wanted to stick with the story
but zanzibar is right to. in fact Xillix is right to.....how can we all be right? the PS world is a very strange place
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When the settings say that all races live in harmony, that just meants that the different races exist as one population, rather than being separate "countries" that could fight against each other. There are no race wars in Yliakum.
It doesn't mean individuals can't be racist, it just means it's not part of the culture.
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There are other ways to define evil though. Some people don't see evil as something that is social in natures; instead, they almost see "Evil" as having its own kind of power and presense and reality. To such individuals, you don't "break the social order", you "succumb to Evil". They basically see the rules that Sangwa speaks of as natural or God-gievn, and therefore Evil is some sort of real life energy and force, and not just something that happens when we define some else a certain way because they live by different rules than we do.
Those people are what I meant when I said "mentally crippled." Maybe I should have referred to them as "socially severed." One often results of the other, as in normal conditions people are susceptible to social behaviour.
I believe that being certain that you are bad or wrong by nature, without provocation or need, is a psychosis. Normal people will usually find a reason to why they do things, or at least some kind of excuse.
The definition I gave is the objective one. The subjectiveness of the concept is the part where it deals with "moral" values. Moral values are traits of society and character.
Therefore we are still able to conclude what I previously did: we need to approach a more realistic view of "evil" and "good" in PS, as it is supposed to be a realistic setting. Instead of looking at those as sides to take on a battle, we should make sure people see them for what they usually are: common moral issues.
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That's a good idea. One RP that managed to go in that direction, interestingly enough, was the Monstrumis Bloodline "vampire" RP. If it hadn't been unfortunate enough to have vampires in it, it would have been a really good example of a different view of evil.
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Using vampires is as bad as using Evil like it is being used; an alien force stripped of significance and lacking place on PS.
So I guess it didn't go in the direction I have in mind.
Capprion: Maybe they were right because each of their subjective thoughts on evil derives from its definition. And so they mentioned what they consider to be morally wrong.
If you watch closely the base of divergency is not on evil but on moral. So when we waste time with subjective chatter around evil, all we're really doing is discussing moral issues. Something we should avoid, as this is not a religious or a society forum, but a gaming one.
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the whole fighting thing today was stupid
i was semi apart of it...i didnt fight, i watched almsot all of it and i had no IDEA why it happened
all i konw was that ms lorina decided to harass my guild sister and me nad my mother went to her aide when we found out that our sister was outnumbered and being harassed even more, the next thing i know there is a whole group of people yelling and shouting and then all of a sudden everyone is fighting
i mena...was there even a point to any of this nonsense or were people so desperate for entertainment they jus thappened to pick on the first fenki they saw?
we were kidnapping her and yes there was a pint to it
then how come no one happened to mention it??
anywho bygones are bygones meh
if you ask her she will tell you
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The best way i can describe evil is Lack of good.
That's the best general term that should be used.
~~Datruth
~~~~~~~Edit
One thing....., if you're evil and you don't want people to be mad at you, try being nice lol.
If you can't take people being mad at you because you were rude to them or stole something then you don't have what it takes to be evil.
I'm tired of evil players saying, I'M JUST IN CHARACTER, THIS REALLY ISN'T ME!!
That doesn't make a difference, if you ACT like an ass, you will be treated as an ass.
Be ready for that and don't complain.
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heh, I always say that good and evil differ in the eye of the beholder, so perception is really what matters. One man's good is another's evil. The dictionary definition describes it perfectly. Just remember that the actions that fit the description are different for every person.
and yes, if you act like an ass, prepare to be treated like one :)
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the whole fighting thing today was stupid
i was semi apart of it...i didnt fight, i watched almsot all of it and i had no IDEA why it happened
all i konw was that ms lorina decided to harass my guild sister and me nad my mother went to her aide when we found out that our sister was outnumbered and being harassed even more, the next thing i know there is a whole group of people yelling and shouting and then all of a sudden everyone is fighting
i mena...was there even a point to any of this nonsense or were people so desperate for entertainment they jus thappened to pick on the first fenki they saw?
we were kidnapping her and yes there was a pint to it
then how come no one happened to mention it??
anywho bygones are bygones meh
if you ask her she will tell you
i thought i was gonna leave this at "let bygones be bygones" and yeah, i did ask, and i have the logs...whatev doesnt make a difference now because its OVER, happened, done, dead, big deal
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I seperate "evil" chars in two catagories. True evil and wanna-be evil. the wanna-bes are infact evil, but are doing the evil pretty stupidly, like mass-dueling. True evil I see as people who's wishes seem insane. I see true evil as more organised. Though there is also chaotic evil that i consider true evil. A psicopathic serial killer I suppose is doing the job right. And there is another category. Bandits. The people who run around stealing things. The better ones are sly and have aplan, and the retarded ones go around, mass duel, and go, "GIV MY UR TRIAS OR IMS GONNA HURTZ U" Not sure if this makes ence or is just psyco-babble. I hope it does make sence.
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Thats one reason I had some respect for whats his face... that Klyros....
Shal. He was a git to everyone but didnt complain when they spat on him.
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Thats one reason I had some respect for whats his face... that Klyros....
Shal. He was a git to everyone but didnt complain when they spat on him.
There was a Klyros named Shal?
/me is disconcerted.
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Instead of trying to make a definition of evil why not just look it up?
[Start Definition]
From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) [web1913]:
Evil \E"vil\ ([=e]"v'l) n.
1. Anything which impairs the happiness of a being or
deprives a being of any good; anything which causes
suffering of any kind to sentient beings; injury;
mischief; harm; -- opposed to {good}.
2. Moral badness, or the deviation of a moral being from the
principles of virtue imposed by conscience, or by the will
of the Supreme Being, or by the principles of a lawful
human authority; disposition to do wrong; moral offence;
wickedness; depravity.
[End Definition]
So basically if a character is immoral, impairing your happiness, injuring or harming you or causing you to suffer then according to this the character is "evil".
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Instead of trying to make a definition of evil why not just look it up?
Because concepts don't work that way.
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I think evil IS a definable thing. However I do not want to get into an argument about that here. People could argue about what evil is forever.
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Let us try, just try, to be reasonable and logic.
Problem: people playing evil aren't being realistic, therefore disrupting part of the Planeshift's ambience. They're not being bad at evil. They're not being too good at evil. They're just being evil in a travesti way that hardly fits the setting we're playing in.
In some settings it might make sense to exist an "Evil Force" to which characters may be aligned to. In this MMORPG, however, no such thing exists.
In some settings it might make sense for players to be bluntly evil without any reason; games where a plot and logic have no place.
In Planeshift we are looking after a realistic enviroment. So we should struggle to keep people more aware of this setting. I believe I've mentioned how on some of my previous posts on this thread.
The best way i can describe evil is Lack of good.
That's the best general term that should be used.
~~Datruth
~~~~~~~Edit
One thing....., if you're evil and you don't want people to be mad at you, try being nice lol.
If you can't take people being mad at you because you were rude to them or stole something then you don't have what it takes to be evil.
I'm tired of evil players saying, I'M JUST IN CHARACTER, THIS REALLY ISN'T ME!!
That doesn't make a difference, if you ACT like an ass, you will be treated as an ass.
Be ready for that and don't complain.
I believe this post is completly futile and disagree with most of it.
Lack of good should include neutrality. So I wouldn't go with that "general term."
Like Malfini mentioned, Evil has been defined. What can not be defined is the moral concept each person has of it. And that matters nothing to the issues we should be discussing here. It's a good thing to discuss in-game, or out of it, if you're one who likes sharing your subjective ideas.
If you're tired of players shouting at you because their character has been mean to yours and you keep torturing them Out Of Character, then I must say you are an idiot. OOC and IC are two different things. I don't run an Empire on real life. I don't chuckle at people's problems in real life. I wouldn't pact with violence on real life.
So I would rephrase what you wrote: If your character acts like an ass, it should be ready to be treated as an ass. The player howevever should be treated like most players are: courteously.
I'll give you an example: Sangwa and Skreit didn't get along well when they first met. However myself and the player behind Skreit were never unpolite towards each other.
PS: This is an OOC post. At least it should be. We don't care what happened in-game, unless it helps us to prevent the wrong usage of alignments and misplaced concepts on PS.
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Well if you walk backwards all the time you might be said to "live" backwards and that is evil...
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I think evil IS a definable thing. However I do not want to get into an argument about that here. People could argue about what evil is forever.
Evil is a definable thing and everyone has their own unique definition.
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Everyone is free to play Good, Neutral, Evil his own way. But like any freedom, it comes with boudaries that are defined with the needs for sharing the same ressources.
There are more threads about Evil than about Good. Mainly because of the ways it is affecting others life when badly played.
Stupidity, agressivity, power abuses are often called evil. Made this way, evil is a nuisance to the enjoyment of others instead of being a challenge for "Good" chars.
Selfishness can be considered Evil from a Good chars' perspective. But if you work for yourself without forcing others, it's fine and might serve you well.
If you plan to overcome all "Good" guilds and corrupt "good people" it's a challenge opened for you and for your oponents. Once again if you invite them to oppose you before forcing everyone to chose side, it's adding complexity to the society.
I met a lot of players who called themselves "evildoers" who where only annoying. And for all the possible ways they used to annoy the greatest number of players, they only had a few excuses:
-It's just a game
True, and a game where everyone deserve a chance to enjoy the world before taking an active part of it. Abuse of newbies is not the way to play evil.
-I was roleplaying (a liar, a thief, a jerk, a mass murderer, ...)
To do that, the player should not abuse of the game mechanics and the lack of punishment. An Evil char must be ready to face the consequences of his actions instead of hiding behind OOC features that are implemented to preserve the enjoyement of the majority of players.
-There is evil IRL, so it's realistic to have it in PS.
And IRL there are police forces, jails, ... and honest citizens ready to call the authorities. Not all of this is yet implemented and PS is not limited to realism...otherwise magic, resurrection, and other features should not be here. Doing evil things without any risk is not realist.
Because the game is designed to encourage the enjoyment of the greatest number, opening possibilities for IC actions, using those features to be annoying is abusing, not using PS.
It is easy to see the difference between an Evil char well (role)played and an evil player thinking he can call being a pain "RPing Evil".
-A char can be/do Evil to other chars.
-A player shall not annoy other players.
in short: You need the be a good role player to play the role of an Evil character.
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You need to be a decent roleplayer to roleplay whatever path. Evil is simply more abused by poor roleplayers.
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Oh lord. This conversation has so many ways to get into the definition of "Evil". The best one I have found yet, and why I agree that playing an "Evil" Character is unrealistic, is that evil is subjective. It is all based on your point of view. In some societies, drinking alcohol is "Evil". In others, associating with persons of different color, religion, or nationality is "Evil". Or marrying more than one person. Or marrying someone of the same gender. Or failing to rub blue mud in your belly button. I don't think there is a single person in history that considered themselves or the motivations that caused them to do bad things as "Evil". Everyone is the good guy in their own mind. Running around killing everything in sight can be called willfully malicious or in some cases, simply stupid, but I hesitate to call it "Evil"