PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: zanzibar on October 15, 2006, 12:35:41 am
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The music in Planeshift is almost entirely non-diegetic tonal music. It doesn't have a source. The tavern music could be thought of as coming from ~somewhere~, but really the tavern music is just an attempt at having something appropriate. The cavern music has sound effects in it which could have been produced by things happening in the cavern. Besides the cavern though, soundscaping is left to ambient sources and emitters.
For the most part, the music is orchestral. But there's two big exceptions besides the tavern music: The arena and akkaio. Both of those seem to have more world influences. The arena music has definate similarities to aztec flute choirs, and akkaio's music seems like it's trying to create a more Greek / mediterranean sound. The strings in it though are more of an imitation of how western orchestral music imitates middle eastern music, if that makes sense to you.
Is there an overall philosophy to how the music is writen and chosen for Planeshift? Is it selected based soley on overall effect? Are there specific guidelines that the composers are asked to adhere to, etc? Is all the music in midi simply a pragmatic issue, or would Planeshift have real recordings given the option?
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I think any music except that from a specific source such as the minstrel playing in the corner of the tavern is out of context for a role-play world that strives for realism. Unfortunately it has become a defacto standard for video games and likely will not go away anytime soon. I turn off music in any game preferring to program my own playlist.
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yeha having the minstrel actually playing would be nice, unfortunately...well, thats not possible yet
i pretend it...there could be a moisntrel hidden from view for all i care
i turn the music off to...but only becasue i dont want to have to listen to it for hours at a time
i think its pretty well done actually though
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Ive forgot how the music sounds it got so annoying i took it off and now listen to my own.
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I think it's well done as well, and like the rest of you, I'm more likely to listen to Nile or Stravinsky while playing the game. But there's a lot more intention that goes into music than just the intent to produce something that's good.
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Is it in midi now? The last time I checked, we had a folder of ogg vorbis files. I'm not sure if it's all synthetic, but for now it probably is.
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Is it in midi now? The last time I checked, we had a folder of ogg vorbis files. I'm not sure if it's all synthetic, but for now it probably is.
With midi, I think you have to save the output as ogg or wav or some other media file for it to be useful.
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Nope as far as i know midi only can be used as ".midi"
Tried to save a midi file name .wav and .ogg and i didn't get it to make the slightest noise
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Nope as far as i know midi only can be used as ".midi"
Tried to save a midi file name .wav and .ogg and i didn't get it to make the slightest noise
That isn't what zanzibar was saying at all :D he is saying that if you use a midi creator to make music you still have to convert it (or export it) to a sound file such as .wav or .ogg. Chaning the extension of a file from .midi to .ogg doesn't make it a .ogg file. You can't change the psclient.exe to psclient.jpg and get a picture. Same thing here. A midi file isn't actually a real audio format per-say. It is more like written music. A midi player reaeds the music and uses its own host of fake instruments to play the song, much like an automatic piano reads punch card music. This is the reason that cheap midi software sounds different than expensive midi players. Nicer ones have better intonation, more realistic instruments, etc... I believe that the PS music IS midi music, just output as an ogg vorbis file.
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ooh.. now i see.. Never liked midi that mutch but it is the best way maybe? anyway i realy llike the music but it could be imporoved maybe a bit, may i ask if some of the sound efects is stolen from Project Entropia or whatever it is caled now? :)
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may i ask if some of the sound efects is stolen from Project Entropia or whatever it is caled now? :)
I dont think so any dev would do it.
It is called entropia universe now i think, what doesnt change a fact that it sux ;P although it has some great features and interesting solutions for problems which appear only in MMOGs.
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If not the sounds resemble some of the sounds in Entropia Universe and Yes it's quite a good game except all the bad things wich is about 85% of it, Basicly it's the worst thing sweden ever produced since they built the town i live in X-/
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Is it in midi now? The last time I checked, we had a folder of ogg vorbis files. I'm not sure if it's all synthetic, but for now it probably is.
With midi, I think you have to save the output as ogg or wav or some other media file for it to be useful.
The music is made from sampled instruments, so it may sound a bit like MIDI. In fact from some music-making programs, you can save as MIDI. However, with a library of sampled instruments you have alot more realistic sound than with MIDI instruments. After a composer makes a song in the form of the "notes" of it, the computer takes those and for each one substitutes in a clip of a real instrument playing that note. It's all those strung together that are exported as a .ogg file.
Mainly the reason it sounds like midi is that it's digital music. Unfortunately, we don't yet have the budget to get all our music recorded by a live orchestra ;]
josePhoenix
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Well say if someone could get a Orchestra (Not the best one in the wolrd but anyway) and could send this to you could it be used in game?
i mean like can the recorded music be converted into an OOG file?
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Live music can be recorded into any format - but you really can't just "get an orchestra" :P
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/me creates a new message "One symphony orchestra, for use in-game."
/me attaches Orchestra.orch
/me sends to Talad
I once thought about using my school's symphonic band, but we don't really have a recording studio. Also, we aren't that great :|
josePhoenix
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No not a real big one like the london symphony orchestra but we have oneof swedens best music shools and a few of my friend go there, maybe could talk them into do something as a school project? I dunno about it but would it work? I have all the resources for recording and orchestra and i maybe could get hold of at least a smal orchestra
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It might be a fun project for you to take on, just personally :] Try to remaster one of PlaneShift's current tracks, and if you're successful, send it to Talad.
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For any recorded music (for a game/movie/etc), it needs to be played perfectly (e.g. exactly as written, and with feeling). Only a professional orchestra can really provide that (mainly due to time restrictions rather than the skill needed, although the more skill the less time needed I suppose). So until we get one of those along with a recording studio, samples will have to do. :)
The game music (as in any game) is designed to just be something nice and atmospheric in the background rather than coming from any ingame source. The kind of music really depends on the location it's being written for, but we want medieval-classical, maybe even Baroque.
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I'll make a try and see what you guys like of it :)
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You don't need an orchestra for troubador-esque music though.
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I'm do know that, am learing a few music producer progs like Fruity loops and Reason 3.0...
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:offtopic: I recommend Cubase SX Lyaph ;)
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Tried it but i am having a hard time getting the hang of it.. BUT i'm going to learn it in school \\o//
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Xordan has a point. Recording music is a tedius, exhausting, often frustrating process. Even when you do have a perfect performance, you might suddenly discover an error in the recording process itself such as some noise or distortion etc.
The kind of music really depends on the location it's being written for, but we want medieval-classical, maybe even Baroque.
The ingame music is very modern. I'd describe it as post romantic video-game music.
Baroque music was common in the 1700's. That's way too late for Planeshift. With medieval music, we're talking about 400 years earlier and even earlier than that. Troubadour music. These were songs about epic battles and kings and having wild parties. The language used was Romance (Roman), a transitory language between ancient latin and modern day French (as well as Italian, Romanian, Spanish, etc.).
Here are some examples:
http://www.amazon.com/Music-Troubadours-Ensemble-Unicorn/dp/B00000IX6O
I've previewed the songs on this and I'd have to say the best clips are "Lady, For You", "It Is Fine To Sing", "Estampie: Reis Glorios", "Praise, Now, Praise, Praise",
There's an instrument in some of the recordings that sounds a bit like a piano. It's probably a dulcimer. Dulcimer's aren't very common in Western music anymore, but they're very popular in Iran. In fact you probably heard a lot of the Middle East in these recordings: This is because of the influence of the Persians and the Ottamin Empire on Europe. The Greeks also had a lot of contact with the Syrians and other such nations. A big influence came in the form of music. Knights and nobles would also have been exposed to Middle Eastern music during the crusades.
Here's a good one:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Riquier-Troubadour-Perceval-Ensemble/dp/B00002409V/sr=1-5/qid=1160971574/ref=sr_1_5/202-2428040-6721420?ie=UTF8&s=classical
"Plus Astrees No M'es Donatz" is definately worth a listen.
Here's another good one:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rudel-12th-Century-Troubadour-Herve-Berteaux/dp/B000023XUL/sr=1-8/qid=1160971574/ref=sr_1_8/202-2428040-6721420?ie=UTF8&s=classical
"La Passion Du Jeu: Decius"
Now check out some middle eastern folk music and compare it! These recordings were done by Maza Meze, a toronto group. (http://www.mazameze.com/)
http://www.mazameze.com/assets/whitesite/Mp3s/tapo.mp3
http://www.mazameze.com/assets/whitesite/Mp3s/anatoli.mp3
http://www.mazameze.com/assets/whitesite/Mp3s/Birdos.mp3
http://www.mazameze.com/assets/whitesite/Mp3s/bahiaout.mp3
Do you hear the similarities in orchestration and instrumentation? Also the fact that most of the time, there's only a single vocal line - traditionally, there is very little use of vocal harmony.
So really, any kind of orchestral music is undesireable if your goal is to have music that is period-appropriate.
On Cubase: I've worked with it. It's not very intuitive and it only works on Macintosh computers, but it does the job.
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Pro tools is still considered the industry standard but folks have gone to Digital Performer and Logic (a bit laborious) as well. I highly recommend Sonar 5 Producer (pro version of a cakewalk product) it's very user friendly. Sonar 6 comes out next month.
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What's your opinion of Cool Edit Pro?
Edit: Here's another link that is really worth checking out. I posted it in the video thread a long time ago, but it fits in this thread.
http://www.timrayborn.com/Video.html
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I think that some people are right about how the music just dosnt seem to fit the world we reside in.
for me, the most important thing in a game is it's mood. How well it sucks you in and makes you believe you live in this world. Music can very very deeply effect the mood.
Let's take(Dare I say it?) RuneScape for example. Pretty crappy game, but the music just completely kills any sign of a slightly good game in it. This is mainly because of its annoying melodies, and it's high pitched, fraud, instrumentals. Planeshift Is not nearly as horrific as the music of runescape, but it still kinda hurts the feel of the game.
Now Enough of my complaining. Here are some suggestions.
NEWGROUNDS
A place filled with wonderful musicians who would probably be willing to write and compose music for this game for free, seeing as how its just a hobby for most. Here are some people who I would suggest you listen to:
Madboss
http://newgrounds.com/audio/view.php?id=1580280&sub=58459
WuSchell
http://newgrounds.com/audio/view.php?id=1623083&sub=62360
and Evil-Dog
http://newgrounds.com/audio/view.php?id=393421&sub=5047
(He has some rock, but alot of good classical)
Hope I didnt make anyone mad, and that I have some good suggestions.
Thanks for reading. :lol:
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@Gundam Shimmabuku: It's great that someone decided to revive this thread. I was really disapointed with how quickly it died. Did you read my post? What did you think of the music I linked to?
About Madboss: I listened to the first and second track. It sounds more like a modern movie soundtrack influenced by video games than it does classical music.
About WuSchell: Listened to the first track. It's very simple music despite the fancy orchestration, and again... it's more like a modern movie soundtrack than classical music, complete with the flute from Titanic. I actually really liked the piano at the end - it was very America, if you're familiar with him. He did the music for the movie "The Last Unicorn" if you've seen it.
About Evil-Dog: I'm not sure why you made a link to this guy... it seems to all be pseudo punk.
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I listened to the music you posted. Some of it wasnt bad, but it was a little thin. Like Guild Wars' music. But Some of it I liked.
Madboss I really like. I know what you mean about the more modern theme though.
Wuschell is like my hero. He has some really good japaneese-influenced peices that he writes that I like, but may not fit planeshift that well.
Evil dog. Well, theres alot of orchestral songs mixed in with the punk ones. Let me give you direct links to his orchestral songs:
The Sands Of Time
http://evil-dog.com/ambient/thesandsoftime.mp3
Blessing
http://evil-dog.com/ambient/blessing.mp3
Second Awakening
http://evil-dog.com/ambient/secondawakening.mp3
Another World
http://evil-dog.com/ambient/anotherworld.mp3
(Kinda liked this one because it had a chilling melody,plus the beat to give it a "cool" effect.
Mideval Agora
http://evil-dog.com/ambient/medievalagora.mp3
(I think He is addin real flutes and clarinets in his final version)
Death
http://evil-dog.com/ambient/death.mp3
(very short)
Gost Presence
http://evil-dog.com/ambient/ghostpresence.mp3
(creepy)
World of Legends
http://evil-dog.com/ambient/wol.mp3
Or the remix(with a beat)
http://evil-dog.com/ambient/wolremix.mp3
Epic loop (loop it if you can)
http://evil-dog.com/ambient/epicloop.mp3
There is more of his stuff at his website, www.evildog.com
If you scroll to the bottem, it looks like he is into developing, which could be something completely different.
Thanks again :)
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Ive forgot how the music sounds it got so annoying i took it off and now listen to my own.
Music in PS is very nice, but after a couple of hours it may sound a little annoying...
Like Gharin I also turned off the music sounds, but I'm playing with an Internet Radio on background: Radio Rivendell
Yes... Radio Rivendell, you read well.
I found it on mi VideoLanClient (VLC for linux) at http://88.191.11.123:8765 and I don't know if it works on win. BTB the site is www.radiorivendell.com
I must to say that sometimes I seek the ogg files into PS's folders and listen them... because actually they're good.
*EDIT: Please, sorry if I make a mistake posting external sites. It's not my intention to dishonor PS site.
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Medieval music is thin though... these songs would have been performed by only a small number of travelling musicians, not a full orchestra complete with a drum machine and amplified piano. They most they would have had would have been a hand-operated organ that required two people just to work the pumps.
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Well I guess my question is: are we going for music to provide realism, or to set the mood?
In MY opinion, realism isnt too important when it comes to music. Maybe a drumset is taking it a bit far,but fitting to the mood of the game is more importans, in my opinion, than going for realism.
Take Guild Wars for example. You can have seige tutrles (Huge turtles with cannons on their back) on your team. Now This is COMPLETELY rediculus, but it really helps to make the game fun
Or take Battlefield 2142.
They have these "drop pods" that are a substitute for parachutes. Pretty unrealistic, but It really helps set the mood.
People dont want really soft, and hard to connect the sound to the game-type-music. Even if it is realistic. I think that truthfully, people wont play the game for the music. But the music helps set the mood, the feeling of the game, that will draw them back to play again.
Of course, there is always the option of having a jukebox that lets you decide what music to play, but thats for another place, and another time.
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Well you could just program some period appropriate music if you can find it as it is all public domain now.
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Oh trust me, there is a lot of authentic classical music and authentic medieval music which is anything but soft.