PlaneShift
Fan Area => The Hydlaa Plaza => Topic started by: Datruth on October 27, 2006, 12:55:28 am
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So it's almost November 7th and i've registered to vote for the first time in my life.
I've got to go over all the propositions we got in California, we get like a million lol, and figure out to vote for or against.
Basically i just wanted to see your input on the election and who you feel will win the House and the Senate.
What will be the biggest issue going in?
Iraq? Iran? North Korea? Economy? The Border?
Which senators are you voting for?
How do you vote, Democrat, Republican, or other?
And are you voting at all?
Can't wait to read the responces :thumbup:
~~Datruth
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There are no big issues. The USA has a horrible government, but people will continue to vote for the republicans because their churches tell them to. It's really that simple.
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I'm going to miss the election by 2 months... :(
I really want to participate; it may be all useless, but I'd rather vote just for the sake of voting. No sense in wasting a right, then complaining about how corrupt our country is.
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As much as I love talking politics, it's been set off limits here. The Flying Spaghetti Monster thread nearly exploded. I'd say it was almost a lock candidate.
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Monketh to the rescue.
The Republicans will take a hit, but I think there's a bigger picture to all of this.
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D'oh. I so wanted to post something here but it was not appropriate for this forum.
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Monketh to the rescue.
The Republicans will take a hit, but I think there's a bigger picture to all of this.
What's the bigger picture, in your opinion?
I'd be interested to find out.
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Monketh to the rescue.
The Republicans will take a hit, but I think there's a bigger picture to all of this.
What's the bigger picture, in your opinion?
I'd be interested to find out.
I think that the western world is in the control of a very small group of elite businessmen and criminals. I think that the US government has put itself into debt without the intention to ever get rid of that debt. The individuals responsible for this are the same individuals who have lent billions to the government. Essentially, they borrowed money from themselves and the American tax payers will be paying the interest for generations. I also think that we will face many environmental disasters because of our dependance on polution, and I think that religious fundamentalism is sending society back a thousand years.
All in all, we're screwed.
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I was with everything you said untill you got to the Religous fundementalism part.
I'm cool with everything else :thumbup:, but what did you mean about the fundementalism part?
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I was with everything you said untill you got to the Religous fundementalism part.
I'm cool with everything else :thumbup:, but what did you mean about the fundementalism part?
I think that religious fundamentalism in its many forms is a horribly destructive force on society. It promotes hatred, oppression, ignorance, and war. I think to go into examples here would be asking for trouble though.
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In my country the elections are on November 22nd.
My birthday is the day after....
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I was with everything you said untill you got to the Religous fundementalism part.
I'm cool with everything else :thumbup:, but what did you mean about the fundementalism part?
I think that religious fundamentalism in its many forms is a horribly destructive force on society. It promotes hatred, oppression, ignorance, and war. I think to go into examples here would be asking for trouble though.
fun‧da‧men‧tal‧ism /ˌfʌndəˈmɛntlˌɪzəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fuhn-duh-men-tl-iz-uhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1.
(sometimes initial capital letter) a movement in American Protestantism that arose in the early part of the 20th century in reaction to modernism and that stresses the infallibility of the Bible not only in matters of faith and morals but also as a literal historical record, holding as essential to Christian faith belief in such doctrines as the creation of the world, the virgin birth, physical resurrection, atonement by the sacrificial death of Christ, and the Second Coming.
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So basically those who feel parts of the bible are literal promote hatred, oppression, ignorance, and war.
I doubt that's the case, i think it depends on what kind of Christian you are but i think that the christian Bible, interpreted literally, does promote alot of problems.
I do think though that the right christians will rise above the hatred and that the vast majority will be good.
It's those evangalests i'm worried about ::|
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About the election though zanzibar, which state are you in and how are you voting? What issues matter to you?
These are all assuming you are in America :D
~~Datruth
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I live in Denmark, and our elections aren't this year ;)
7'th november... and i'm going to see Iron Maiden live two days after \m/ anyways.
And since i don't live in the US... and don't know about the available politicians to vote for... I would say vote for the person who won't seem to be screwing so much up.
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I live in Denmark, and our elections aren't this year ;)
7'th november... and i'm going to see Iron Maiden live two days after \m/ anyways.
And since i don't live in the US... and don't know about the available politicians to vote for... I would say vote for the person who won't seem to be screwing so much up.
They screw up soo much though it's hard to tell which to choose ;D
What's funny about that joke is i was being serious ;D
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So basically those who feel parts of the bible are literal promote hatred, oppression, ignorance, and war.
Get a better dictionary.
There are more fundamentalists than just Christian fundamentalists. Also, Christian fundamentalists tend to take the entire bible as literal fact, not just parts of it, and they more than just "feel" that they're right - they think they are absolutely right without question.
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That is a great joke there Zan, what with your current sig and all. They can't possibly be right if they disagree with you.
Oh and the problem is not with the fundamentalists, it is with polititians who cynically manipulate them.
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=God+told+me+Bush&btnG=Search&meta=
Edit Feeble joke removed
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I'll bite.
The current wars are due mostly to religous fundmentalists. It is easy to see why many seculars might think "Religion is bad." After all, they only need point to Islamic & Christian Radicalism and their case is in point.
Mahmoud Ahmedinejad (sp?) and Bush are two examples of leaders that exhibit the inflexible stance of "knowing" that God is on their side (and therefore whatever I do is right), and as a result the brinkmanship they practice is a danger to global security. You can talk to American conservatives and convince them to follow centrist/liberal courses; you just have to use their language. Ask them questions (statements) to which they must answer "yes." Then, use those statements to reach a conclusion with which they disagree.
Thus:
1.Iranian President is uber-religious.
2.a.Iran's nuclear program is mostly his fault.
2.b.Iran's nuclear program is dangerous to our national security.
3.a.Iran's president refuses to back down because he believes he is right.
3.b.He believes he is right because he believes God is on his side.
3.b.II.This is because he is uber-religious.
4.Therefore, uber-religion is dangerous to national security.
Or:
1.Marriage is a relationship between a man and woman blessed by God, right?
2.God is expressed through your religious institution.
3.The government is inherently a multi-theist instution (it is composed of people of differing ideologies.)
4.A religious insutution can only have one truth.
5.The government is not a religious institution.
6.So, how can it recognize God?
7.Since marriage is inherently religious, it should be in a religious institution, by something capable of recognizing religion.
8. see 5:The government is not a religious institution.
9.How can a person of a differing theism believe God has blessed your marriage if they do not believe as you do?
10.The government should not recognize marriage. That would be sacreligious.
[I know these are flawed. They're quick examples.]
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I am glad you realise they are flawed. I have just one question about your post. If you think George Bush is uber-religious then why does he allow his daughters to party hearty and not ship them off to a religious school to mend their ways? Could it be his religiousity is a cynical front?
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That is a great joke there Zan, what with your current sig and all. They can't possibly be right if they disagree with you.
Oh and the problem is not with the fundamentalists, it is with polititians who cynically manipulate them.
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=God+told+me+Bush&btnG=Search&meta=
Edit Feeble joke removed
Dude. Get back under your bridge.
You and Monketh do make a good point though. Often, conflits that seem to be religious in nature are actually economic in nature.
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Dude. Get back under your bridge.
Buuuddy, there be goats up there good for the eating! You don't want me to go hungry do you?
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To an extent. I would hardly believe that the current conflicts have any economic benefits other than to those directly or indirectly involved with the security industries.
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To an extent. I would hardly believe that the current conflicts have any economic benefits other than to those directly or indirectly involved with the security industries.
To take the current American war as an example, the US government is racking up a huge debt because of 1. taxcuts and 2. military spending. At the same time, the people who are in office, as well as their friends and companies, are investing huge amounts of money into government grants. This is a documented fact, it's all on public record. They're putting the government into debt and then they're loaning the government their own money at a high rate of interest.
(The tax cuts themselves represent billions of dollars going back into the pockets of the rich. Eliminating the death tax means that these multi billionaires and Paris Hiltons will hang on to their wealth for eternity.)
Then there's Haliburton and how they've been given so many contracts without any competition. I've spoken to soldiers who have seen service in Iraq, they say that the food isn't very good despite all the money Haliburton has been given. I wonder what they're doing with all that cash if they aren't spending it on the soldiers? Keeping it, maybe?
Then there's the oil thing. Of course, it's possible that the US government wants to control those oil fields simply because they don't want China or Europe to have their own source of oil.
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This has to do with the election though.
Is anyone here besides me actually voting?
If so, do you care to say how?
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I get to vote in a week or two but it is just a municiple election.
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I get to vote in a week or two but it is just a municiple election.
Governors seats, Senetors seats, and Representative Seats, are all on the line.
So we don't get to pick the president, we still get to help pick the legislative branch, and remember they make all the laws.
I see the midterm elections to be just as important as the the Presidential ones.
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Well hopefully you will throw the rascals out whoever they are. It looks from here like both sides are equally bad. I am Canadian so I have no say.
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Well hopefully you will throw the rascals out whoever they are. It looks from here like both sides are equally bad. I am Canadian so I have no say.
Looks are decieving, especially when they're provided to you by the mainstream media.
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Well hopefully you will throw the rascals out whoever they are. It looks from here like both sides are equally bad. I am Canadian so I have no say.
Looks are decieving, especially when they're provided to you by the mainstream media.
So both sides arn't to blame? Is that what you're saying?
I personally think they are and i'm just going to choose between the lesser of two evils.
Wish me good luck :D
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"the rascals" refers to the ones who are there for self-serving purposes, that have meekly followed the party line and allowed Bush et al to gradually turn America into Amerika, i.e. took away your freedoms in the name of "the war on terror" and replaced them with increasing the police state mentality. Sadly it looks like the Democrat/Republican duality is merely the good cop/bad cop routine and the basic goal of both remains the same: lock up the perp, i.e. you. Unfortunately as goes America so goes the world so us outsiders can only hope you guys get your act together and resist the Military Industrial Complex.
Full Speech (http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html) This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.
Good Luck, for all our sakes.
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I don't know if it's come to the point where we need a revolution or anything.
I think the problem is loss of morals and guidance which has gotten us to an increase in violence and greed.
Right now Big business rules all. If you can write a big check, you will get what you want done, no questions asked.
And look at those billion dollar weapons manufacturors, where are they gonna sell weapons now?
China is our number 1 trading partner and no matter what people say we love them. Russia collapssed and wouldn't be seen as a threat being that they have lost soo much money and power.
The U.K is as strong as ever and will back us up to the ends of the world, Europe for the most part is stable and the instability that does exist there poses no real threat to America.
That left, The middle east, Africa, and North Korea to poke at. Their the only ones left with real instability that has an influence on America. With the whole Palestine Israel problem, Darfur and Possible Nukes at Iran and North Korea, the Weapons manufacturers could meet their quota's.
My long explanation about this is that I think we're currently all over those places now because of Weapon Manufactorers Greed, i don't think it has anything to do with justice or morality. Morally you can't Bomb Iraq, kill thousands of innocent women and children, and stain the ground with uranium for millions of years.
Yes, Greed has gotten us this far stretched and in this war.
Iraq reminds me of the Civil war.
Once it was finished and the North had won it took the South a long time to recover and the north quickly outpassed it in goods and exports.
The same goes with Iraq, we'll be in there fixing things for the next 10 years easy,probably longer, all because the weapons contractors wanted money and used their influence in congress to get the war they needed.
Now what does this have to do with voting?
I'm going to vote away the power of the weapons contractors and hopefully make them accountable to what they've done.
~~Datruth
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To an extent. I would hardly believe that the current conflicts have any economic benefits other than to those directly or indirectly involved with the security industries.
To take the current American war as an example, the US government is racking up a huge debt because of 1. taxcuts and 2. military spending. At the same time, the people who are in office, as well as their friends and companies, are investing huge amounts of money into government grants. This is a documented fact, it's all on public record. They're putting the government into debt and then they're loaning the government their own money at a high rate of interest.
(The tax cuts themselves represent billions of dollars going back into the pockets of the rich. Eliminating the death tax means that these multi billionaires and Paris Hiltons will hang on to their wealth for eternity.)
Then there's Haliburton and how they've been given so many contracts without any competition. I've spoken to soldiers who have seen service in Iraq, they say that the food isn't very good despite all the money Haliburton has been given. I wonder what they're doing with all that cash if they aren't spending it on the soldiers? Keeping it, maybe?
Then there's the oil thing. Of course, it's possible that the US government wants to control those oil fields simply because they don't want China or Europe to have their own source of oil.
We have debt because he have a multi billion dollar trade deficit.(see china)
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We had a trade deficit with china back with clinton too, but in those times we had a surplus.
I think it's the war that's drained all our money.
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Then Clinton gave China most favored state and we traded away with them .... well they sent billions of dollars in crap here and we sent almost nothing there.
Soooooo we owe them the difference in cash.
Yea dont think they'll be gettin that.
HAHAHHAHA
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go democrats
die republicans
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Actually Zanzibar, Haliburton would be an example of a company involved with the security industry.
The connection of private capital to security industries is a bit weaker though.
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Actually Zanzibar, Haliburton would be an example of a company involved with the security industry.
The connection of private capital to security industries is a bit weaker though.
I did a
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=haliburton+iraq&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
And found a
http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/
It appears that they have their fingers into a few things. And yes, feeding soldiers is one such thing.
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Actually I meant rehtorical link, rather than physical link. It's confusing to say, but I wasn't arguing.
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it is so interesting seeing your points of view on this , from the inside of it all . Yeap you guessed right I`m not from US
however here is my 2 cents on the matter . US politics has done more harm to the world in the last few years then comunism/nazism together throughout history . I can only pray to whatever god out there that the democrats win this -and the next round- and hope that it makes any difference whatsoever
Whenever I start to contemplate the US actions and there effects on the entire world over the last decade .....I stop really fast and rush out to get drunk really fast , because realizing what US has done to the world scares the %^$# out of me
Sometimes I find myself wondering what will be US`s next step : They can`t extend there military actions in the orient - nowhere to go wth Iran there - , and no US will NEVER attack Iran , they can`t even deal with Iraq and it seems they plan to stay there untill they will compleatly exterminate the population there , so no way US will dare move against Iran , not as long as rusia is backing Iran up. That leaves..what? Africa open I presume . probably they will "find" some threts to world security there if they will want to get there hands on some hypotetical resources there.....
But the main problem from where I`m standing is the anti-US sentiment world-wide . I don`t belive there was ever in earth`s history such a world-wide feeling of hatred twards a nation as the curent anti-US sentiment world-wide . to me it seems US is alone out there , except for UK ofcourse , and it`s dooing an great job on geting everyone else against it . So if this is to change then these ellections are crucial . I really hope the democrats win and things will change
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It is interesting that you mention Africa. I read somewhere that China is making many friends in Africa and they don't have the whole White Man's Burden / Colonialism baggage to hinder them. Apparently one of the things being said by Africans in favor of Chinese initiatives there is that they just get the job done while the west gets bogged down with environmental / social impact studies causing projects to be greatly delayed if finished at all.
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it is so interesting seeing your points of view on this , from the inside of it all . Yeap you guessed right I`m not from US
however here is my 2 cents on the matter . US politics has done more harm to the world in the last few years then comunism/nazism together throughout history .
Excuse me, but Hitler and Stalin murdered well over a hundred million people. The American governmenthas promoted globalization, the American government has assassinated and tortured people, the American government has supported terrorist organizations abroad, but I don't think that you can put their war crimes even close to the those of Hitler and Stalin.
By the way, where have you been? Or have I just not noticed you around and you've been here all along?
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I don't know zanzibar, like i understand what you mean, there are alot of deaths under stalin, like 20 million.
And i have no clue how many deaths came from hitler.
I can't seriously say America killed as many.
But it's policies, in my opinion, have effected more people, without actually killing them.
Like our embargo on Cuba.
Which is the worse of the two, probably communism and naziism.
But give america 100 more years, then we'll beat them lol ;) :thumbup:
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I'm invoking Godwin's Law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwins_law
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I don't know zanzibar, like i understand what you mean, there are alot of deaths under stalin, like 20 million.
More like 95 million, actually.
And i have no clue how many deaths came from hitler.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties:
"The civilian toll was around 37 million, the military toll about 25 million."
However, I'm not sure if that number includes the 25 million Jews, Socialists, Immigrants, Gypsies, and Homosexuals who were killed by the Germans as a part of the Holocaust.
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From that same page which by the way that number was total deaths on both sides
POP Mil. dths Civ dths total deaths
China[9] 530,000,000 3,000,000 7,000,000 10,000,000
Somehow I don't think the Germans were responsible for any of these.
pop Md Cd Holocaust
Soviet Union[49] 168,500,000 10,700,000 11,500,000 1,000,000 23,200,000
and the total holocaust deaths listed is 5,754,000 not 25 million. However I would not claim these numbers are definitive.
As far as Stalin's count goes that too is subject to debate by people who know more than me.
About the only thing that any of this has to do with today's vote is nothing.
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6 million Jews were murdered in the Holocaust, but the Jews were not the only victims. Gypsies, immigrants, socialists, and homosexuals were also killed in concentration camps along side Jews. Going back to the wiki page, it reads that the number killed in the Holocaust "totaled 12.1 million, plus 5.7 million Jewish Holocaust victims that are listed separately". So that's 20 million souls in total.
The 95 million figure for deaths due to Stalin's regime comes from the latest estimates and research. A number of books have been released that go into detail on where that number comes from. My understanding is that it's been well recieved by the academic community - a lot of work and peer review has gone into it. It's a safe bet.
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I have no interest in arguing this, I concede that 5+million number currently says jewish holocaust dead. I also see that page has been edited something like 21 times so far this month including some edits for vandalism.
I still don't see what it has to do with the election.
EDIT dubious claim about total number of edits removed, just noticed that all history pages show link to 500th edit regardless if it exists.
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I still don't see what it has to do with the election.
You're more than capable of reading through the thread to find out the answer to your own question.
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Looks like the Democrats have won the house but it's still close for the senate. I hope they get them both, although even one will do.
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Looks like the Democrats have won the house but it's still close for the senate. I hope they get them both, although even one will do.
At the same time though, Bush and his cronies are going to start blaming the Democrats for all things bad in Iraq and at home. Then again, they were doing that anyway...
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it was my first time voting....
and thank goodness the democrats won the majority of stuff :D :D here in oregon i mean :P
i jsut hope the measures i voted for went well :D
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I heard something about that in virginia, there was this guy who tried to impersonate some government voting thingy at the voting poll, and got banned by the police, also someone else who tried calling some afro americans and tell them that the voting boot had been moved to another place.
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I voted, then took a 12 hour nap.
Then played PS for 5 hours. I stay away from politics, but I do my civic duty to vote. (and that includes getting educated about the people and issues on the ballot, not just voting and markng down things)
I think I'll look into tomorrow's or next weeks newspaper to see the results. Or not. :whistling:
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DEMOCRATS WIN THE HOUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! \\o//
All they need now is 2 Senate seats that are still under speculation.
COME ON, we need change, Let's go DEMS!!!!!
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So it's almost November 7th and i've registered to vote for the first time in my life.
I've got to go over all the propositions we got in California, we get like a million lol, and figure out to vote for or against.
Basically i just wanted to see your input on the election and who you feel will win the House and the Senate.
What will be the biggest issue going in?
Iraq? Iran? North Korea? Economy? The Border?
Which senators are you voting for?
How do you vote, Democrat, Republican, or other?
And are you voting at all?
I'm Canadian-American with dual citizrenship.
I did vote, though I had to hold my nose to make a choice in many cases.
The issue this year was not the war in Iraq for me (I prefer to call it the US invasion of Iraq). We are there for several more years to clean up after ourselves no matter which party holds reign over the US. The issues for me this year were corruption, fiscal responsibility, and personal integrity. Corporate interests hold to omuch power in the US, and this needs to change, so I also look at where the candidates pull their campaigne funds from.
Ok, you can stop laughing now. I understand it's a rare politician who displays ANY of these qualities. I have seen local politicians with these qualities and have worked in the campaigne of one such person who was a Green party candidate running for county commissioner.
We have a problem in the US. We have a vice president who makes more annually from his Haliburton retirement package than he does as vice president. What this amounts to is that we, as his current employers, are paying him less per year than his former employer pays him. Where do you think his loyalties really lie? This problem is not limited to the vice president, it is happening in city, county, and state governments all across the US. Until this changes, we can expect business as usual from our politicians as they continue to abandon our rights to privacy, property and individual freedom in favour of corporate profits.
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it is so interesting seeing your points of view on this , from the inside of it all . Yeap you guessed right I`m not from US
however here is my 2 cents on the matter . US politics has done more harm to the world in the last few years then comunism/nazism together throughout history .
Excuse me, but Hitler and Stalin murdered well over a hundred million people. The American governmenthas promoted globalization, the American government has assassinated and tortured people, the American government has supported terrorist organizations abroad, but I don't think that you can put their war crimes even close to the those of Hitler and Stalin.
By the way, where have you been? Or have I just not noticed you around and you've been here all along?
perfectly true there is no way you can compare the crimes of nazism and comunism to what US is dooing , in terms of lifes lost anyway . What I was talking about is creating this worldwide psychosis about terrorism, using fear as a mean of controlling "everything"and blindly attacking any way of life that is not the
"american way of life" . In WW2 the entire world reacted to the nazi threat , the nazi agression was NOT tolerated , but now noone seems to dare say/do anything against the US agression . This is where I see the problem, US is slowly turning into a planetary dictator . Us agression : hiting anyone and anything as long as it fits there ? economic? interests ,behind poor excuses that noone would actually belive .
but enough of this , democrats won, I`m off to drink to that
Ya I know my english sucks , it`s not my first language and I`ve failed most of my english exams in my 3 years of college
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Actually, the entire world didn't respond to the nazi threat for about 7 years. Even when Hitler began to take over Europe, Britain was making peace deals with him. And Jews who tried to escape Germany for places like Canada and the USA were actually told to turn around and go home when they pulled into port! So people didn't react to the Nazi threat, at least not right away.
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Some reacted by joining it (Italy) and others didn't react at all (like Switzerland, although neutral parties generally helped the Axis more) or reacted only when it directly affected them (USA). So no, the entire world didn't react to the Nazi threat :)
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Some reacted by joining it (Italy) and others didn't react at all (like Switzerland, although neutral parties generally helped the Axis more) or reacted only when it directly affected them (USA). So no, the entire world didn't react to the Nazi threat :)
Switzerland actually supported the Nazis by holding on to things stolen from the Jewish people for safe keeping. Paintings, gold teeth, Swiss banks kept it all for safe keeping for the Nazis.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but that was just a side effect (passive supporting say) of existing Swiss law (which still exists). I wouldn't say that the country supported the Nazis in an active manner. Anyone (with money) can hide anything they like in the Swiss bank and nobody will ever see it again (for a really long time anyway). No doubt that there's still things locked away which were put there by Nazis.
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There is probably stuff there from so-called liberators too. Not all soldiers on the allied side were particularly honest.
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What do nazi's have to do with the Midterm Election lol.
Well anyways i'm waiting for the Senator, George Allen, In virginia to admit defeat.
He's down by 7 thousand votes and the Democratic candidate is basically assured victory, in my opinion anyways.
I hate all these formalities where they recount votes, check to see if there were problems, blah blah blah, the dems should take that seat, thus giving them power over the senate.
This is a big situation, the senate has many more powers than the house of Reps and would be a great asset to the Dem's future strategies.
Stretegy #1: Whip George Bush into Submission :o :o ;D
Seriously, he needs to get off his high horse now, time for him to get whipped.
~~Datruth
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JUST IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DEMS WIN THE SENATE!!!!!!!!!
/me cries
THERE IS A GOD, THERE IS!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ya, a bit overly dramatic lol
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If the democrats own both the senate and the house can impeachment proceeding be far off? George has been caught telling more important lies than Bill ever was. Of course I don't think two years is enough to finish that process.
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If the democrats own both the senate and the house can impeachment proceeding be far off? George has been caught telling more important lies than Bill ever was. Of course I don't think two years is enough to finish that process.
Impeachment, For sure
Think about it, 6 years, 6 WHOLE YEARS, without the Oversight of congress.
Ofcourse he's done something stupid.
There is a reason why we have oversight and when the Dems do some digging they'll find that George has been as Dirty as the rest.
The number one issue this election: CORRUPTION.
~~Datruth
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I very much doubt there will be an impeachment. Rather the dems will just keep tight control on what GWB tries to do for the next two years.
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Do you really think the 'crats won't go tit for tat if they control the house and senate? I wouldn't put it past any politician to be small-minded and venal. Of course sitting outside is a different perspective than amidst the fray.
That said it would be an action that could backfire on them even though there have been many calls for impeachment. I think it would be unprecidented, has there ever been two presidents in a row subjected to this process?
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So who do you want to be the president in 08?
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So who do you want to be the president in 08?
Nader.
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So who do you want to be the president in 08?
Nader.
Seriously?
I really want Al Gore or Clinton to run again.
Nader is.... well, good but.... not realistic.
Nonetheless he's an awesome choice though.
~~Datruth
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Al Gore would be good, it's just that Nader would be better. To my mind, the changes Nader wants to make are the changes we need to make a society. Clinton is better than Bush (IMO) but I'm not down with the "republican-light" thing.
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Al Gore would be good, it's just that Nader would be better. To my mind, the changes Nader wants to make are the changes we need to make a society. Clinton is better than Bush (IMO) but I'm not down with the "republican-light" thing.
See although nader would make a Great president, it would be near impossible for him to muster up the kind of votes Al gore would get.
IS anyone else here mad that Al gore LOST the President Seat, even though HE WON MORE VOTES!?
That really made me mad and it lives with me till this day.
~~Datruth
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I'm convinced that Al Gore won the election and that the Supreme Court cancelled the election and appointed Bush. The language of the legal document they produced basically says that they had to appoint Bush because many people thought Al Gore won based on the election results. Add in the fact that so many democratic votes were thrown away, plus other forms of election frawd, and it becomes pretty obvious that the election was rigged.
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I'm convinced that Al Gore won the election and that the Supreme Court cancelled the election and appointed Bush. The language of the legal document they produced basically says that they had to appoint Bush because many people thought Al Gore won based on the election results. Add in the fact that so many democratic votes were thrown away, plus other forms of election frawd, and it becomes pretty obvious that the election was rigged.
I hate the electoral College.
As we saw in the last election, it doesn't do justice to the votes of the people.
Gore completely won the Popular vote(total votes in U.S), but because he lost in florida(which is still disputed) he lost the election.
And now the U.s has gone to hell.
We owe like 6 trillion dollars.
About 25k per family.....
Pray for us Zanzibar... pray.... we need it :lol:
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Stewart/Colbert '08!
I just had to get that out of my system... Sorry.
I don't think they have real grounds to impeach Bush, that's the thing. They disagree with him, but you can't impeach for that. Or at least you're not supposed to.
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Well he lied about the intel, he lied about "we've never been about staying the course", they went after Clinton because he lied about Monica, so I think turnabout is fair play. Not to mention all the unconstitutional things he did for which he later rammed through retroactive justification. At least this is how it looks from here. Still it would not surprise me either way.
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Well he lied about the intel, he lied about "we've never been about staying the course", they went after Clinton because he lied about Monica, so I think turnabout is fair play. Not to mention all the unconstitutional things he did for which he later rammed through retroactive justification. At least this is how it looks from here. Still it would not surprise me either way.
The difference is that Clinton was under oath.
Now, what they CAN impeach him for is exposing that whistleblower's wife who was in the CIA. They exposed her as a CIA agent to punish him for saying that they had no evidence of WMDs in Iraq. It put her life in danger and it also revealed an oil company as a CIA operation. The CIA were using that company to gather intelligence on terrorists, but now the terrorists won't work with them.
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K, Now for the BIG QUESTION
HOW LONG, Will America be in Iraq?
1 more year.
3 more years
5 More years
8 More Years
12 Years or +
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I'm thinking we'll be in there for atleast another 10 years.
And i'm being totally realistic as well IMO.
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We've been there since the 80's, so...
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Good old Zanzi...We've been everywhere since the 80's. It's just all a big blurr cause of the shrooms.
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We've been there since the 80's?
Really?
Why wasn't i informed :sorcerer:
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im not totally sure how the 'electoral college' system works, is it that you have your voting areas, each one is decided seperatly, then the party that wins the most areas wins the election?
If so, It sounds like the British system of constituencies. To me the best way to go is proportional representation, whoever gets the most votes wins. Although this system wouldnt work in thew Britain because we dont vote for the PM, it is votes on a local basis and whoever wins the most constituencies, which means the most MPs gets to pick the PM.... and replace him, pretty much, at will.
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For your educational answers: http://www.fec.gov/pages/ecmenu2.htm
:)
Edit: and the ever popular wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Electoral_College
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Im sat at work bored out of my skull then I get that oppurtunity to read something interesting, click on How the Electoral College Works (http://www.fec.gov/pages/ecworks.html) and guess what..... Broken Link :'(
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Added the wiki link as you replied. :) Happy "edumacating" yourself.
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By the Gods! That sounds like a terrible system, so in theory, all the presidential electors could BS their way through the election, then just vote for whoever they feel they want to win, am I right about this? Faithless Electors according to the Wiki.
[Edited 3 times for silly errors]
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If so, It sounds like the British system of constituencies. To me the best way to go is proportional representation, whoever gets the most votes wins. Although this system wouldnt work in thew Britain because we dont vote for the PM, it is votes on a local basis and whoever wins the most constituencies, which means the most MPs gets to pick the PM.... and replace him, pretty much, at will.
To be honest, most people vote for the party with the leader they like :) It's also rare for a party to win an election and then change the leader shortly after, it only happens after several terms in office or very close to the next election.
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Electoral College is flawed.
It's supposed to Elect the President that got the most votes.
But like we saw in the 2000 Election, AL GORE, got more VOTES.
But bush won, because he got the Electoral College.
It's stupid really, and i'm sure Jeb bush had something to do with that in florida.
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So what about IRaq Guys, How long are we gonna be there lol.
I still say 10 years.
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I say you (I'm not pointing the finger at anyone in paricular, just across the Atlantic in the general direction of the states) should never have gone there at all. I don't see the point. If I said there were WMDs in Datruths post would it be deleted?
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To be honest, most people vote for the party with the leader they like It's also rare for a party to win an election and then change the leader shortly after, it only happens after several terms in office or very close to the next election.
Very true, but my point is our elected representetives have the choice, im one of the few in the UK who votes btw...... even in local elections lol
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I say you (I'm not pointing the finger at anyone in paricular, just across the Atlantic in the general direction of the states) should never have gone there at all. I don't see the point. If I said there were WMDs in Datruths post would it be deleted?
I agree with you, We shouldn't have been there.
I've never been for the war.
Because of that i've been gotten with harsh critisicm in my Conservative town.
But now that those idiots in washington have gotten us in, When do we get out?
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well, you cant just leave now, it would turn to a bloodbath and a dictatorship afterwards, WE are in it for the long tem.... unfortunatly
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I say you (I'm not pointing the finger at anyone in paricular, just across the Atlantic in the general direction of the states) should never have gone there at all. I don't see the point. If I said there were WMDs in Datruths post would it be deleted?
I agree with you, We shouldn't have been there.
I've never been for the war.
Because of that i've been gotten with harsh critisicm in my Conservative town.
But now that those idiots in washington have gotten us in, When do we get out?
What we should have done is:
a) Either done our "Shock and Awe - Kick some ass" plan, then instead of labeling and rejecting Iran, accepted their help to stabilise the country and gotten out of there fast.
b) Actually made a plan of action for being there in the long term.
What we did was 'kick some ass, both physically to Iraq and verbally to its neighbours' and then go "urr... what next?" and now we're in this situation.... Or we could have just left Iraq alone and it would be the stable inhumane dictatorship it was before with mass killings and genocide, but there would have been no western involvement so we wouldn't have heard anything about it., and nobody would care.
It's scary that so many people think that everything in Iraq was perfectly fine and there was no reason to be involved there if nothing threatened us. Selling Iraq weapons was probably a bad plan though.
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well, you cant just leave now, it would turn to a bloodbath and a dictatorship afterwards, WE are in it for the long tem.... unfortunatly
It already is a bloodbath and a dictatorship.
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Electoral College is flawed.
It's supposed to Elect the President that got the most votes.
But like we saw in the 2000 Election, AL GORE, got more VOTES.
But bush won, because he got the Electoral College.
It's stupid really, and i'm sure Jeb bush had something to do with that in florida.
Here is a little harsh reality http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hb0jzAX3TQ
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I love being neutral... Means I can tut all I want. I really can't stand all these repuplicans...
That is a powerful video but I thought that was all general knowledge. Was it not all in one of Michael Moore's books.
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The funny thing is that even if it is common knowledge, no charges laid, no one sent to jail..... polititions above the law..... a very scary and sad realism.
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The funny thing is that even if it is common knowledge, no charges laid, no one sent to jail..... polititions above the law..... a very scary and sad realism.
See they arn't Above the law.
The senate and House of Reps is supposd to act like a Judge and Jury.
Sentancing and Hearing claims.
But the reality is THEY ARN'T. They rarely Whip their own people into shape, and just give them pats on the back.
Look at Denis Hastart...... the guy should be in jail now, for atleast a year, Hopefully longer.
~~Datruth
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Common knowledge? Unfortunately no. The protection mechanism is called "Denial."
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By the way, What about the U.k
Any sentiments about the Respect party and the Labor party?