PlaneShift
Fan Area => The Hydlaa Plaza => Topic started by: Malfini on November 24, 2006, 09:44:11 am
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This is regarding some posts at http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=26526.0. My post was deleted from that thread because I didn't read that thread before a moderator decided to tell people to stay on topic. I have therefore decided to place my response here.
By Xordan: That's because it was written by an inexperienced writer whose first language is not English, Talad Tongue And the British spelling are more correct than the American ones, because British English is the International standard for English (hence the option of US English or International English on programs).
By Zanzibar: I'm not quibbling with you for fun. American spellings are becoming more popular because of American word processing programs and spell checkers on our computers, American programs on TV, and even American textbooks in our schools. That doesn't make them correct however. Tolerable, in some instances, but not correct. If you use American spellings, you will risk being seen as ignorant.
*edit*
I just read the link from that UofW website and it seems to support my position, not oppose it. They say that their students should use the Canadian Oxford dictionary and they give a list of spellings that they want students to use - all of which are British spellings. The website says to use centre and not center, rumour and not rumor.
The country known as the "United States of America" was once thirteen colonies settled by Great Britain but then the people of the colonies had a revolution and declared themselves their own independent country and won the revolutionary war. The revolutionary war ended in 1783 with the Treaty of Paris and one of the people who signed it was a man named David Hartley who was a member of the British Parliament representing the British Monarch King George the third. So America doesn't have to spell the way British people do. Furthermore in America we have our own way of spelling words so if a native citizen here used another countries standard of spelling it could make them look ignorant to their fellow countrymen and women. I personally don't care how words are spelled in PlaneShift because I realize that there are different forms of English in the world and just because I spell the word "rumor" does not mean the person that spells it "rumour" is any less intelligent.
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Bilbous and I were talking about a Canadian context.
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Malfini, calm down! If all ex-collonies would freak out because of being acussed of not using correctly the ex"mother-tongue", there would be no Europe any more!!!!! Just remember that the "main country" is most of the times 10-20 smaller! ;)
I agree with making the UK English the base of the game. I do it for the same reason I demand the portuguese on the games to be the one of PORTUGAL. There are tons of ex-colonies speaking the same language, but all with their little differences. The only way to keep all American, Canadian, Australian, etc people happy is to use the mother English that gave origin to their own.
You know, my country owed half of the known land some centuries ago. If our ex-colonies would be imposing their own portuguese in the games, means that only the 3 million in their own country would understand it... :)
Don't get mad, boy. American English is nice. But I think it's logical we use the UK as a standard. No one is calling you a slave of the English crown by doing so! ;)
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I think extra "u"s are elegant.
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Helm I said that I didn't care how words are spelled in PlaneShift. American English, British English and Canadian English are almost identical anyways. I don't care if someone spells "rumor" the British way "rumour" even in America. If they spell it "rumer" however I MIGHT correct them. However if you want to talk about what is logical I think that many people could consider it more logical to simply select the most widely used form of English in the world. According to Wikipedia 67.2 % of the worlds first language native English speakers are in the United States, the United Kingdom has 16.9 %, and Canada has 5.8 %.
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8) Well you all, what a silly thing to talk about, herd [ even bad spellers, point finger at self ] of Idiosyncrasies, or even slang, think of it as a Dialect, we all even in the same country talk slightly different.
So the point being who cares how you spell it, as long as the person you are talking to UNderstands.
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Yes I agree that what matters most is if we understand each other. I don't mind that you're a bad speller Janner because I think spelling is overrated anyways. ;)
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Interestingly enough, there's 44 different 'types' of spoken English (dialect differences), and two main types of formal written English (British and American), with more minor types of written (AU, CA) although the minor types are almost identical to British except for in N.America. American being the most used by first language speakers (due to the USA's population), and British English being the most widely used and taught in the world. To me, what is logical is that the most widely form that is used in the whole world - not just for first language speakers - is used. But yeah, it doesn't really make much difference, it's not like it reads too differently :)
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I know that the "International English" Standard is what is taught formally in most non-english speaking countries, but when I was in asia, students were paying upwards of 300 dollars US per lesson to private (and sometimes illegal) tutors to learn to speak and spell "American Standard". I believe the large reason behind it is that Americans REALLY like to buy stuff. Corporations like to sell stuff, and they find that sales seem to increase if their employees and ad agencies etc speak in the local idiom, to make their products seem more familiar to the intended customer. Parents will pay out the nose to ensure their children get a thorough education in things they think will help them succeed in life. I know that speaking american Midwestern Standard English and the local language got me a few extra won in my pocketbook when I lived there.
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There is actually a form of English called "Formal written English" that most educated English speakers around the world have agreed upon using for writing English in. Formal written English is actually composed of many different versions of English. The Scientific community around the world has taken advantage of the fact that there is just one formal version of written English in their scientific reports. Whenever there is a dispute over what spelling should be used for a word a committee decides which version to use. For example the American spelling "sulfur" is used and not the British spelling "sulphur" and the British form "aluminium" is used and not the American form "aluminum". As I type in this box I find it interesting that the only words that are being reported as misspelled are "sulphur" and "aluminium" though.
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As I type in this box I find it interesting that the only words that are being reported as misspelled are "sulphur" and "aluminium" though.
American English spell checker? :P
And there's no one worldwide formal written English. There are regional variations of one, but they're just very small. Wikipedia has an article on this. Or to be more to the point on spelling: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_written_English#Differences_in_spelling although all differences aren't listed there.
A bit more link clicking to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_spelling_differences
and you see:
Aluminium is the international standard in the sciences (IUPAC);
and for Sulphur/Sulfur - The American spelling is the international standard in the sciences.
Seems that each country uses its own spelling regardless though :P
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Heh.. I thought the whole point of having a Formal written English was to solve regional spelling and grammar issues but apparently they have failed as well. This is just getting sad now. :(
Maybe we can just write and speak in scientific lingo then? :D
The more I do research on this the more I am finding that everyone just seems to disagree on what is standard English and what isn't but it could just be the fact that it is 5:25 AM and I have not slept.
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"it more logical to simply select the most widely used form of English in the world. According to Wikipedia 67.2 % of the worlds first language native English speakers are in the United States, the United Kingdom has 16.9 %, and Canada has 5.8 %."
As I told you, I do not think this is logical. What matters is not the numbers of people who speak it. What matters is that actually everybody understands it.
The original Latin was spoken only by a very few people, mostly educated ones. The "common" latin was very different from the "original" one, and was even more different depending on regions. But when you wanted all these different regions to comunicate fluently with each other, they used the "original" one, even though it is not spoken by the majority.
I know that all English "languages" are not very different from each other. So this discussion is a bit silly anyway. But you have to see I come from a country that spread a languange all over the world, and it is very difficult to actually understand each portuguese dialect. There are 10 million in the original Portuguese country, but Portuguese is (or at least was last time I saw these kind of statistcs) the 6th most spoken language in the world. Still, it is more common to see the Portuguese from Portugal in books and games instead of the Brazillian one, even though they have 10 million just in the capital city... :)
I don't see using the UK english as a sign of Imperialism, but more as a sign of respect to all english speakers out there. :) But don't get mad with such little things! The only way to get over this is to invent a time machine and kick the ass of the architect who design the Babel tower! ;)
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None the less, if you use American spellings in Canada, you risk being percieved as ignorant.
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And if you use British spellings in America you are at worse arrogant, or at best people just don't know why you spell that way.
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And if you use British spellings in America you are at worse arrogant, or at best people just don't know why you spell that way.
That's in America though.:) They do a lot of things differently down there.
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Since I just got up and missed all the hoo-haw on this thread, I thought I would respond to Zanzibars quoted text in Malfini's first post.
Canadian spelling is a combination of both British and American patterns.
So far from supporting your position it specifically refutes it and then goes on to specify how they will spell things in their written materials. This is an informative page and not a prescriptive page. Personally I use a Canadian localization with my Linux with a Canadian language spell-checker and it accept both usages. Also I have the feeling that the only places in Canada where British usage is enforced and American usage is a sign of ignorance is the notoriously snobbish private schools such as Upper Canada College or here in Ottawa, Ashbury College.
As far as general usage goes I am all for inclusiveness and this whole brou-ha-ha started from one throwaway sentence in the other thread where I pointed out the British usage and specifically refrained from taking issue. I suppose what I was trying to say was that some might take issue (rightly or wrongly) with it but I would not. If I had I would have pointed at the particular words at hand.
I suppose I should really stop writing throw away lines but that is just not who I am. What I mean by throw away line is something I think is accurate or amusing, not neccessarily both, but that I don't care enough about to argue over. I will argue about it if I think I am correct and someone challenges it but not always. Throw away lines often have a smilie in them.
Now excuse me while I adjust my long johns while I wait on line in the pommy loo queue. I had too much poutine last night ???
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None the less, if you use American spellings in Canada, you risk being percieved as ignorant.
American spelling is recognised in the Canadian pulbic school systems and when being marked on spelling and grammer or wording in essay's it is accepted for the most part.
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The original Latin was spoken only by a very few people, mostly educated ones. The "common" latin was very different from the "original" one, and was even more different depending on regions. But when you wanted all these different regions to comunicate fluently with each other, they used the "original" one, even though it is not spoken by the majority.
I don't see using the UK english as a sign of Imperialism, but more as a sign of respect to all english speakers out there. :) But don't get mad with such little things! The only way to get over this is to invent a time machine and kick the ass of the architect who design the Babel tower! ;)
Helm if PlaneShift used "original English" which was first made around 450 AD none of us would understand it. Here is what English was like at around 900 AD.
"Hwæt! Wē Gār-Dena in geārdagum,
þēodcyninga, þrym gefrūnon,
hū ðā æþelingas ellen fremedon.
Oft Scyld Scēfing sceaþena þrēatum,
monegum mǣgþum, meodosetla oftēah,
egsode eorlas. Syððan ǣrest wearð
fēasceaft funden, hē þæs frōfre gebād,
wēox under wolcnum, weorðmyndum þāh,
oðþæt him ǣghwylc þāra ymbsittendra
ofer hronrāde hȳran scolde,
gomban gyldan. þæt wæs gōd cyning!"
That is from Beowulf and it can be translated as..
"Lo, praise of the prowess of people-kings
of spear-armed Danes, in days long sped,
we have heard, and what honor the athelings won!
Oft Scyld the Scefing from squadroned foes,
from many a tribe, the mead-bench tore,
awing the earls. Since erst he lay
friendless, a foundling, fate repaid him:
for he waxed under welkin, in wealth he throve,
till before him the folk, both far and near,
who house by the whale-path, heard his mandate,
gave him gifts: a good king he!"
So only a few archaeologists or select historians would be able to understand the "original English".
Helm I really don't see why you are saying using the UK English is a sign of respect anyways....
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Malfini, don't be a Klugscheisser... :P What I meant with "original English", and you know damn well what I am talking about, is the English brought from UK to the colonies...
There is no such thing as an original english in the imediate definition of the term, since English, as most languages, is a mixture of myriad of others, from Saxon, French, Latin, and God knows what else... :P
But considering I am from a Latin country, learned UK English, got blasted with bad english from American movies and series, mixed it up with lessons of French, Finnish and German,and you still understand me, I guess everything is ok! :D
P.S.: I specially like the part of the "Hwæt! Wē Gār-Dena in geārdagum,". Must be really difficult to pronounce those 257s... :P
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Why are you calling American English "bad English"? The #257's could be the result of this forum not supporting the particular characters/glyphs that were in that area of the text. As for you calling me a "Klugscheisser" I think this means "smart donkey". I am not a donkey but I appreciate you calling me smart nonetheless though. Thank you Helm/Sekmeth *hugs*. :D
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@Zorbels: That wasn't the case when I was in primary and secondary school. If I used an American spelling, I would lose marks.
About old English: modern English has absorbed other languages such as Romance (Roman, early French / an evolution of Latin), and so it's not fair to compare modern English to old English. They really are two different languages.
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@Zorbels: That wasn't the case when I was in primary and secondary school. If I used an American spelling, I would lose marks.
Ya, alot has changed in the public school's curriculum. I am only updated because my mother in law is a school teacher and my daughter is now in kindergarden. I was surprised to find out also that they don't say the lords prayer anymore, like we used to in our generation after singing the national anthem.
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Ya, alot has changed in the public school's curriculum. I am only updated because my mother in law is a school teacher and my daughter is now in kindergarden. I was surprised to find out also that they don't say the lords prayer anymore, like we used to in our generation after singing the national anthem.
Zorbels I am very glad that you were SURPRISED they didn't say the Lords Prayer anymore because it gives me a hint of your faithful devotion. I personally think the whole world is going down the toilet.
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Aheem.... :whistling:
Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy,
it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a
wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist
and lsat ltteer is at the rghit pclae. The rset
can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it
wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed
ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe. ceehiro
That'll fduge up the splelchekcer
:P
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I have heard that before and I think it's true. I was able to read your post easily except for one word that made me pause for just a moment.
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@Radiant Memphis: that would explain alot of my typing errors. :P I fianlly hvae na ecxsue!
@Malfini: Faithful, always. :D I agree the world is going down the tolite and it is a shame. Thank God for small favor's though as OJ Simpson's book will not reach the shelves. At least the public has a limit thus far, gives me some hope.
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I agree Zorbels, that is somewhat promising. :) *hugs Zorbels*
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I think extra "u"s are elegant.
I second that motion. "Aluminium" just sounds silly, though.
I like to use english spellings on some words and not on others.
I also like to put on accents, but that's a different story.
I prefer my native Midwestern Broadcaster/Standard English (The sort usually spoken on television.)
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We actually use UK English here in New Zealand, and I don't believe any other variant is accepted in schools.. Oh wait, yeah.. Except for text speak.
* Kiirani weeps softly
I tend to use a combination of UK/US, depending which version of the word I came across first, however I make an effort to use the UK spellings of words where I know them as I consider them to be more correct.
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A wise man once said:
In brittain they speak English.
In america they pretend.
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USA is the only ones in the world that spells that way. Maybe canada??? USA spelling just seems to make the words simple. They spell the word the way it sounds. Kind of makes you think?
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Well, I do agree with soulless_body. It seems like in most of the spelling differences between US and UK English words the UK counterpart needlessly has one or two characters more. Languages and cultures are always changing though so if people value simplicity then maybe someday US English will be more widespread than it is now.
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Actually, I disagree there. Words like Armour (Arm - err/urr) and Colour (Col - err/urr) are spelled like they sound. Armor (Arm - or)and Color (Col - or) aren't. Imo anyway. Maybe it's an accent thing.
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I think the difference can be put down to quirks of the national character. Britons don't like to finish anything they start so they drag out the spelling as long as they can. Americans want to finish things as fast as they can, even if they don't achieve all they want, so they spell things as quickly as possible. :oops:
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In terms of quirks, it isn't a matter of speed but a matter of simplicity. The spelling "armour" is marginally more difficult to remember than "armor." There actually seems to be a culture against intellect right now anyway.
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anyway there are not only one type of langauge in britian we have many forms of english and we can spell them all when you say english you dont mean british english you mean english english there is at least 5 diffrent variations of english up in scotland alone now pls do not say english is british for its not its english not uk or british just plain english.
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anyway there are not only one type of langauge in britian we have many forms of english and we can spell them all when you say english you dont mean british english you mean english english there is at least 5 diffrent variations of english up in scotland alone now pls do not say english is british for its not its english not uk or british just plain english.
No, there are many dialects, but there is one standard (official) written form of English for the UK right now. What 5 dialects are those anyway out of interest?
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kinda hard to explain you see even a ew miles can quite happily bee enough to change the meaning off words and how we speack but theres 2 main types up here and there "scotish and glasswegen. we also have a lot of jordies and cocniey up here then you have the jipsies as well.
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yeah, that's dialect rather than English spelling, the written standard is still the same. I'm living in London right now, just moved from Wales and people speak quite differently :) Going south to Cornwall is good too, can barely understand them sometimes. The UK is weird how people can speak so differently within so few miles distance.
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yeah but my point is we can or most of us can write our dialect and that means its an alteration of english like wid = wood so on so on.
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yes, but that doesn't make it correct :) Write like that in a high school English exam, or in a university essay and you'll lose marks. We're talking about the main standards, not the local quirks.
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Actually, I disagree there. Words like Armour (Arm - err/urr) and Colour (Col - err/urr) are spelled like they sound. Armor (Arm - or)and Color (Col - or) aren't. Imo anyway. Maybe it's an accent thing.
It must be related to accent Xordan because I know for a fact that the way people pronounce color where I am would have to be spelled "color" or the sound of the word wouldn't match its spelling. The same thing also goes for armor.
I have to wonder though do you pronounce part of "colour" with the same sound as "our" as in "our shoes".
*edit*
This was taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_spelling_differences.
Most words ending in unstressed -our in Britain (e.g. colour, flavour, honour) end in -or in the U.S. (e.g. color, flavor, honor). Most words of this category derive from Latin non-agent nouns having nominative -or; the first such borrowings into English were from early Old French and the ending was -or or -ur. After the Norman Conquest, the termination became -our in Anglo-French in an attempt to represent the Old French pronunciation of words ending in -or. The -our ending was not only retained in English borrowings from Anglo-French, but also applied to earlier French borrowings. After the Renaissance, some such borrowings from Latin were taken up with their original -or termination; many words once ending in -our (for example, chancellour and governour) now end in -or everywhere. Many words of the -our/-or group do not have a Latin counterpart; for example, armo(u)r, behavio(u)r, harbo(u)r, neighbo(u)r; also arbo(u)r in sense "bower"; senses "tree" and "tool" are always arbor, a false cognate of the other word. Some 16th and early 17th century British scholars indeed insisted that -or be used for words of Latin origin and -our for French loans; but in many cases the etymology was not completely clear, and therefore some scholars advocated -or only and others -our only.
From this it sounds like English was forever changed after the Norman Conquest. It also sounds like when a word has an "our" ending in Britain and an "or" ending in America most of the time that word was derived from a Latin word that ended with "or".
If this is true then in most cases of words with "our"/"or" differences the American form is actually more philologically correct.
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It means that American is closer to latin, not closer to English.:)
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Lets use latin as the official language in PS then. But then we might have fights over those that will speak latin and those that will speak pig latin and we'll be just back to square one again.
okay, shutting up now. :-X
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It means that American is closer to latin, not closer to English.:)
Zanzibar I don't think you understood what I was truly saying. I was saying that in most English words with the "our"/"or" differences the actual word in question was derived from a Latin word which used the "or" ending. Therefore it is philologically incorrect to use an "our" ending for those words.
*Edit*
Your post sorta implies that American English isn't English which could confuse people who are trying to learn English.
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oh jeez i jsut like to add "s" to almost everything ehehe :flowers:
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Actually, I disagree there. Words like Armour (Arm - err/urr) and Colour (Col - err/urr) are spelled like they sound. Armor (Arm - or)and Color (Col - or) aren't. Imo anyway. Maybe it's an accent thing.
It must be related to accent Xordan because I know for a fact that the way people pronounce color where I am would have to be spelled "color" or the sound of the word wouldn't match its spelling. The same thing also goes for armor.
I have to wonder though do you pronounce part of "colour" with the same sound as "our" as in "our shoes".
Umm no, we pronounce it as I said in my post. the our part of colour is said urr, or maybe urrgh. Not our, not or. :P Basically how it's supposed to be pronounced.
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I think the reason it may be spelled "color" in the United States is because that word was derived from Latin which used the "or" not "our" ending. England it seems just threw "our" at the end of words far too often. Noah Webster the man who made a very popular American English dictionary thought words should be more philologically correct. I know Webster also had many other reasons why he thought the spelling for many words should be changed though too. He also felt that a country should have control over its own language. I think he probably corrected a lot of errors that crept into English over time though.
From WordNet (r) 2.0 [wn]:
Noah Webster
n : United States lexicographer (1758-1843) [syn: {Webster}]
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To me, the use of 'or' instead of 'our' changes the sound of the word and so it isn't the same thing (sounds worse to me) :) Also, English is descended from Norman French, (nearly all European languages are Latin based) where words are generally have more frills. I don't think you can say there are 'errors' in the language just because it doesn't follow Latin in a certain way... if you want to speak Latin.. well speak Latin :)
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Xordan all that means is that the Norman French stole Latin words and botched them and that after the Norman Conquest England had the weird Norman spelling forced upon them because they had been conquered. England later reformed many words though that had been botched during that time.
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Obviously you have no idea about the formation of modern day European languages, or past languages in Europe, although I wouldn't expect you to, being American. Before the Norman invasion the people in England certainly didn't speak English as it didn't exist. There was no 'weird Norman spelling' because hardly anybody could write. Norman French _became_ English, with words and grammar from lots of other languages mixed in over time. That's how languages come about you know, mixes of languages put together slowly evolving over time and being refined by various people. There was no reforming or anything similar, just what people spoke written how people thought it sounded. For that reason I think that accent had a lot to do with the differences between the English's. Maybe the guy who wrote the first American dictionary couldn't pronounce lour, or thought it sounded like lor (same for mour/mor etc). Modern day English, French, German, Italian, Spanish, etc. are all Latin based, as _is_ Norman French (Yes it still exists and is used... in Normany, France, although it's also evolved a lot since 1066). Are you saying that all those languages are just stolen botched bits of Latin?
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Obviously you have no idea about the formation of modern day European languages, or past languages in Europe, although I wouldn't expect you to, being American.
A side note I know, but: So you're saying that becuase someone's from the USA, that they obviously can't know anything about the other parts of the world's history? We're not all ignorant, Xor. I would think that some of those well respected world history professors at, say Harvard, might disagree with you.
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Obviously you have no idea about the formation of modern day European languages, or past languages in Europe, although I wouldn't expect you to, being American. Before the Norman invasion the people in England certainly didn't speak English as it didn't exist. There was no 'weird Norman spelling' because hardly anybody could write. Norman French _became_ English, with words and grammar from lots of other languages mixed in over time. That's how languages come about you know, mixes of languages put together slowly evolving over time and being refined by various people. There was no reforming or anything similar, just what people spoke written how people thought it sounded. For that reason I think that accent had a lot to do with the differences between the English's. Maybe the guy who wrote the first American dictionary couldn't pronounce lour, or thought it sounded like lor (same for mour/mor etc). Modern day English, French, German, Italian, Spanish, etc. are all Latin based, as _is_ Norman French (Yes it still exists and is used... in Normany, France, although it's also evolved a lot since 1066). Are you saying that all those languages are just stolen botched bits of Latin?
Haha!!! English was around at about 450 AD; so for you to say it didn't exist at the Norman Invasion of England is ridiculous.
Norman Conquest
n : the invasion and settlement of England by the Normans
following the Battle of Hastings (1066)
The English language has been variously divided into
periods by different writers. In the division most
commonly recognized, the first period dates from about
450 to 1150
:D This is just way too funny. Seriously though you sound very angry. Please try to calm down Xordan. :)
*Edit*
Obviously you have no idea about the formation of modern day European languages, or past languages in Europe, although I wouldn't expect you to, being American.
I would recommend that you try not to post your intolerant views of Americans. You seem to think Americans are all stupid. They might not like this seeing as you are a developer and you sorta represent the PlaneShift project in a way.
*Edit*
I have much more to correct you on but I consider it a waste of time. Have a good day though. Please don't hate me Xordan. :(
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I'm not angry :P Just pointing out some facts, and losing any structure in typing at 2:30am :) SOISOUNDABITLIKETHIS!!!RAAGH! 450AD-1150AD is far from 'around 450 AD' considering that we have very little idea what went on during the dark age. You know what the dark age is right? I would also hardly call the language in England around then 'English', mainly because it was highly Germanic from the Saxons and Angles, then it was heavily altered by another Scandinavian branch of the Germanic dialect, and then by Norman French. So please don't do the "HAHA I found a quote on some random website therefore I'm right and English is the same as in 450AD" thing. I can add the influence of the Celtic in the region too, plus that of the Vikings. Old English didn't form until all those languages mingled and spat out something quite different to the early dark ages.
neko: Well, the majority of people in the USA won't know about it (Harvard professors obviously aren't that), because I don't believe you learn the history of European languages in USA high school (or much beyond USA history). Correct me if I'm wrong, and pardon if I'm just coming across too blunt. I guess this answers the "you think all americans are stupid" edit above too.
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Only attentive students pick up the history of English in my area, and only by chance. That would seem to confirm the "Americans don't learn the origins of English" notion Xordan has.
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Xordan, I honestly think that you have even less of a clue of what you are talking about than me (the dumb American). I think my participation in this thread is rather futile. I like American English and you like Queens English and I doubt this will ever change. :P
*Edit*
In high school I actually had to take a class named "English Literature" where I had to read stories that were written in a very old form of English that was used long before America even existed. I also know that in some of the history textbooks there were some things about the evolution of languages. To be fair though fallible people write history books and they write them however they see fit. :D
*Edit*
I think it would be best if a moderator locks this thread now.
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@ Xor, My schooling years had elective world history courses each year one could take to broaden thier views on the world around them. Only the american history course was required. I always took the elective courses. I found them more interresting than the boring american one.
I can't say that all schools are set up like that, but around here in boringsville ohio, that's what it is. :)
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In South Africa we use UK English as this is taught in schools and we would get marked down for using US English despite the good arguments we came up with
Regardless of the origin of the word the way it is spelt changes the pronunciation to me.
For instance the difference between colour and color: To me the first would be pronounced k(u)l(e)r where as the second would be pronounced k(u)l(o)r (Forums doesnt support symbols so edited to add this (http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/6747/untitledsl8.png) :P). Thus I prefer the first as this is how I pronounce the word.
Maybe we can just write and speak in scientific lingo then? :D
Hehe I found this very funny! Ever hear Jack and Jill told in scientific lingo? Found this somewhere a while ago, although it is scientifically not completely correct one gets the basic idea. :P
A research team proceeded toward the apex of a natural geological protuberance, the purpose of their expedition being the procurement of a sample of fluid hydride of oxygen in a large vessel, the exact size of which was unspecified.
One member of the team precipitately descended, sustaining severe fractural damage to the upper cranial portion of his anatomical structure. Subsequently, the second member of the team performed a self-rotational translation oriented in the direction taken by the first member.
Sourced from: Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a pail of water. Jack fell down and broke his crown and Jill came tumbling after.
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I didn't go to your stereotypical public school in the United States. I went to a charter school and graduated a little early. I had to take a world history class as well.
*Edit*
I love it when people of other countries sometimes have the attitude of "I'm smarter than you because you're in America and all Yanks are stupid.". It helps me get a very pleasurable belly laugh.
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This is for anyone who wants to know more. It covers the language from roots of Roman and Anglo-Saxon, though old English to middle and modern :) There's examples of text from each transition, showing pretty much what I described in the differences in the language as it evolved. (I guess I do know what I'm talking about <.<) To join the 'what I did at school' club, I had 5 years of British history lessons. If anyone with a degree in this wants to add anything informative (as opposed to "haha that just makes me laugh"), just ask.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_English_language
Kiraki: hehe :) I've only seen over politically correct things, like a black dwarf star called a non-luminescent diametrically challenged object :P
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It seems like me and Xordan have found out through PM's that we agree and always did. The biggest reason we were even arguing was due to miscommunication between us. ;D
This whole argument therefore must be a testament of the differences in the forms of the English language. ;D
/me Puts out his hand to shake Xordans hand
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hehe, right :)
/me shakes.