PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Gharan on November 27, 2006, 07:22:14 am
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Whatever happened to the City Guard and is there leader still around i believe they are great for certain RP but that's just my two cents.
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Do you mean the Hydlaa Law Enforcement Agency? That guard group has been disbanded.
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I think I've seen some Santinels around tho
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i think the game should have gm's as city guards that can defeat everyone, that way they can really hold up laws... tho then that would leave room for evil people so i take that back
[gotta love a change of mind in the middle of the post]
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GMs are there to deal with OOC issues - it would get pretty confusing to have to RP everything, especially when we settle OOC conflicts between players or explain bugs. Maybe we'll have a separate IC force once such a thing is really needed. Right now the world is rather small for something like that.
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@Gharan: Are you thinking of Grunn, the Kran?
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Grunn is one of my characters, and still in the Guard to show up once in a while when I can manage it to enforce the illusion of law enforcement. or is an RP has need of him. Weavers run the guild, though they are not very active right now that I know of. I shall give it a stir next weekend and see what comes up. If I have the new client up by then, that is.
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UtM walking in my footsteps ... well I hope you're having better luck than I had.
If Gharan is talking about the Vaal Guard, which I doubt since we 've been gone for quite a while, it is still around in some form. We no longer have the manpower to call ourselves a guard unit though.
Now I can't wait to meet some of UtM's characters in-game.
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Good to know there is still at least one guard around, i think they are needed.
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Good to know there is still at least one guard around, i think they are needed.
What for?
I'm serious, give some real reason.
Because i can't see how they could do their job well.
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Good to know there is still at least one guard around, i think they are needed.
One guard to defend Yliakum from dozens of outlaws?(both from the guild and independent)
That is totally possible... if very near to impossible is still possible
It is easier to fight a Ulber with a toothpick!
Off-topic: Unless this guard is Chuck Norris of course!
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It is odd how so many players equate guarding with fighting. Policing is a state of group mentality, not a billy club.
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Not me, am i right thinking they are there to police and we should never try and fight them?
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Do you pick a fight with a cop even if you outnumber him? Don't think so because then no police officer would be safe anymore.
You shouldn't think one guard, there may be only a few players that RP guards but for your character, those few players are backed up by an entire military/police force, the law and the vigesimi and octarch with all their men. Those guards are equiped with excellent equipment and for all you know trained to kick your ass. Guards should be respected, sometimes even feared, because they are allowed to use force .. whereas you are not.
I know people will have problems with guards because people still play a game and think .. why should this player be allowed to boss me around, just because he claims to roleplay a guard?
I do think guards are needed to create a realistic roleplaying environment. They can offer many options and give a lot more content. Downside is they can't be guards if they aren't accepted as guards by the players.
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Just like criminals can't ignore the fact that NPC guards should be part of their RP, PC guards can't do their RP by bossing people around. Placing yourself in a position of authority above other characters is too big of a leap. Guards are needed but specific laws should preceed them so they don't just go out there and think they rule the town just because they are cops. With laws, both civilians and guards would know what limits they should respect to keep order within city walls.
Until we know more about Yliakum law, guard characters will only have the power other players give them. Anything like "You have to do what I tell you because I'm the law" can only be assessed as another way of godmodding. A police character is always useful in RP but just like RL, they should inspire respect in order for their authority to be legitimate.
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Agree one 100% ... but I don't really want to wait until Yliakum's laws are finally revealed to us by the Devs. I think there are basic laws like murder and robbery which we can work with without fearing they don't fit into PS' settings. Secondly guards have a task of keeping the peace, which means preventing violence and acts of criminality .. not only catching criminals. According to me that role is even more important and missing in the game.
Of course those who RP badly as in the godmodding you described won't be liked and probably simply won't be RPed with.
The inspiring respect is where the issue lies though ... too many players lack respect for authority because they know it can't be forced onto them. Of course there should be bad guys with no respect for the guards. But they shouldn't simply wander in, either ignore a guard or beat it up and go ahead with their evil little lives. That's godmodding the other way around.
I think for the whole guard RP to be fun we should have criminals who are dodging the law, outsmarting them and trying to work out of their reach ... but knowing they wouldn't win in a direct confrontation. Guards in return should hunt these criminals, track them down but they are still just people so they can be fooled by a clever disguise or a quick escape into a maze of alleys and maybe even stabbed in the back when they're not paying attention.
Criminals could use disguises (switching clothes/armor for example), silent accomplices who keep an eye out for guards ... besides there are loads of places to hide. In Hydlaa city alone it would be near impossible to find someone if they didn't want to be found. Especially if we play by some rules like not using target selecting or /targetinfo from a distance but waiting until you are close enough to see their label to recognize them.
Guards could work in teams, sweep the cities, throw up roadblocks on commonly used roads, watch city gates, interrogate eye-witnesses and more.
In the past practically all experiences I had as a guard when I encountered criminals were duels or in other words showdowns of power ... and power didn't even matter because we were all powerful enough to kill eachother in the first blow. I got fed up with it pretty quickly back then, but I'm hoping the community changed a bit and maybe there are people on both sides of the law interested in a much more entertaining form of roleplay. Then I'll definitely revive my guard.
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Yes, there's no notion of crime if there is no law to break. Both criminals and guards define their own places by fighting each other. Whereas guards should avoid thinking they have the right to boss people around, criminals should avoid forgetting their own RP (and I'm afraid this happens too often). Many times have I seen a well known criminal auctioning stuff saying "meet by Harnquist" or simply standing there talking to their friends like they wouldn't be noticed and approached by guards. And this keeps happening. If you decide to play an evildoer you should be consistent about it. Turning the consequences of your evildoing on and off is yet another way to godmod.
Now, about common sense crimes, yes, it is obvious that if you murder someone it should be considered a crime. However, some bad RPers justify their impunity with the limitations of game mechanics, despite the evidence or obviousness of their guilt in the matter. If the player behind the criminal doesn't see their very action as a crime, little can the guards do to RP it as such. So, it basically depends on each case and whoever is involved. This relativity requires caution on other players, should the criminal/guard be godmodding their own way in/out of the RP.
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The one big problem i see with guards is that, as was said, the only way this may work out, is through pure RP. Only there are mayor issues with this.
As long as obeying what the guards say is not a big problem, everything is fine. But in other situation we have conflicts.
A killer, surrounded by 3 guards is about to be killed by them. The guards try to RP killing it, by thinking the killer can do nothing. Easy. The killer obviously wont't RP this. Would you? I woudln't. So he try to kill them all by himself as it happened he is more skilled. Now, who will decide if he had this 1% luck (you can't just ignore it) and who will decide he was actually more skilled and better equiped giving his chances bost to 10%. The answer is noone. In such situation, the winning side will be this side, which give up the result faster (bored, annoyed, tired of continued arguing, whatever).
You just can't say by RP you defeat every obstacle.
I can see noone pointing out this. Why didn't you? And I get impression that everybody are so positive about RPing a guards. Only why it was not sucessfull? Look in the mirror and say everything i said is a lie and you were just unlucky.
P.S. If you are going to make a pointless post only about my last line, better crash your monitor on your head and don't count on lucky ending.
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Im not going to type up a huge paragraph on what I think... because no one bothers to read it... rather heres a simple idea...
Good idea, instead of as Nikodemus brought out 'the guards surround you and do nothing...' they should attack you, my favourite illistration, and perhaps the best, is that of the game Fable
I understand PS wants to be different, but I really think the game Fable did an excelent thing with guards... they beat you up til your HP goes to 0... and then instead of being killed you're sent into a dungon or outside the city...
thats a different subject though, but perhaps this dungon has a way to escape, yet the way is like a puzzle which changes each time it is used... that way unlike DR you can't go through it once and expect to know the way out.
How many of these dungons could there be?... how about a unique dungon seperated from the ps world... in here it is impossible for any other character to find you, you're sorta, 'taken out of the game' until you find your way out of the dungon.
there could be npcs who can be bribed to reveal hints to the exit, etc etc, to help noobies that may fall victum to this.
And depending on how many crimes you've commited, the dungon may become harder, like a maze, and may contain fewer npcs to help you.
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Actually, my Guard character Grunn did quite well (and will again). His 'power' was respected by both good and bad characters. One thing I did not do was duel with him. If a guard can be defected in public, then there will be some players who go out of their way to try to do this for the sake of being evil. Stupid. By refusing to give this power to badly RPing criminals, Grunn gained other power with those that do play to the light and dark side of things. Attitudes would often change very quickly at the first sign of the 'City Guard' under his name, and many 'evil' players would suddenly find another place to be. For that they gain a great deal of respect from me as players.
RPing a guard in not about enforcing the law. It is about giving it a presence.
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I'd think if they knew Grunn was under the moon they'ed quake in fear... but maybe thats just me...