PlaneShift

Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Meserlion on December 01, 2006, 01:08:32 pm

Title: Damascus steel
Post by: Meserlion on December 01, 2006, 01:08:32 pm
I would like to see weapons made from damascus steel. Damascus steel is the steel of legend. Wiki it see what i mean. I think it should only be craftable after some considerable effort and be the strongest weapons in the game or at least on of the strongest. The stock sould be called wootz stock. Just to add some flavour to the game.
Title: Re: Damascus steel
Post by: zanzibar on December 01, 2006, 02:50:49 pm
(http://www.stanleylondon.com/damascusbowie7.jpg)

The metal is very attractive.  The wiki said that the method of forging it was "lost" circa 1800, but it seems there are companies producing a different kind of damascus steel which is of inferior quality to the "true" / "ancient" damascus steel.  Interesting.  I just learned something.
Title: Re: Damascus steel
Post by: Peacer on December 01, 2006, 03:44:07 pm
(http://www.stanleylondon.com/damascusbowie7.jpg)

The metal is very attractive.  The wiki said that the method of forging it was "lost" circa 1800, but it seems there are companies producing a different kind of damascus steel which is of inferior quality to the "true" / "ancient" damascus steel.  Interesting.  I just learned something.

So... beautiful... IMPLENT IT :O
Title: Re: Damascus steel
Post by: eldoth_terevan on December 01, 2006, 04:02:37 pm
IMHO: This would probably be the equivalent of a /2-/6 weapon. A texture could be added, but I doubt if it would be called Damascus Steel since there has not been a Damascus in Yliakum. I have read somewhere that the process involved cooling the forged blade in the belly of a slave, and I don't think we want to do that in game. But I think a more detailed and interesting crafting process that could simulate making something like this would happen after basic crafting was stable, and they start detailing processes of crafting of magical weapons.
Title: Re: Damascus steel
Post by: zanzibar on December 01, 2006, 05:18:55 pm
IMHO: This would probably be the equivalent of a /2-/6 weapon. A texture could be added, but I doubt if it would be called Damascus Steel since there has not been a Damascus in Yliakum. I have read somewhere that the process involved cooling the forged blade in the belly of a slave, and I don't think we want to do that in game. But I think a more detailed and interesting crafting process that could simulate making something like this would happen after basic crafting was stable, and they start detailing processes of crafting of magical weapons.


No way man!  /10 all the way!  From what I've been reading, these blades which were made of true damascus steel are incredibly sharp.
Title: Re: Damascus steel
Post by: eldoth_terevan on December 01, 2006, 06:05:26 pm
Alright... /10 it is then. And they keep their sharpness, so the 2% drop in weapons repair should be more like a .5 drop or something.
Title: Re: Damascus steel
Post by: lanser on December 01, 2006, 06:16:48 pm
Damascus or Wootz steel contains carbon nanotubes which should make it stronger than any normal steel/metal

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wootz_steel&oldid=87356449
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/9809/Verhoeven-9809.html
Title: Re: Damascus steel
Post by: Karyuu on December 01, 2006, 07:19:09 pm
That's really beautiful (http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/4929/usedusedusedvi7.gif)

As mentioned though, I doubt we'll be using anything like "Damascus" as a weapon/material modifier.
Title: Re: Damascus steel
Post by: Kalika on December 01, 2006, 07:33:13 pm
ehehe yeah i agree, thats exquisite

i dunnos how the texture would show in game though...
Title: Re: Damascus steel
Post by: zanzibar on December 01, 2006, 08:14:37 pm
That's really beautiful (http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/4929/usedusedusedvi7.gif)

As mentioned though, I doubt we'll be using anything like "Damascus" as a weapon/material modifier.


What about the texture then?  I can think of a way to do it.... oil paints in water, then you gently put paper flat on top of that then lift it out and you should get something that looks kinda like it.  There's probably a word for it.

Yes, I know I'm talking to an art student who already knows all this stuff, I'm just saying that it could probably work.
Title: Re: Damascus steel
Post by: Karyuu on December 01, 2006, 08:18:43 pm
The texture can be done, though I wonder at how well it would show up on our tiny items. We can try thinking of a more original name for such steel with "native" patterns like this.
Title: Re: Damascus steel
Post by: Kalika on December 01, 2006, 08:20:23 pm
 :whistling: too bad silverweave is already used...that would be pretties :D
Title: Re: Damascus steel
Post by: bilbous on December 01, 2006, 09:04:39 pm
looks pretty fractal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal) to me
Title: Re: Damascus steel
Post by: Eagel on December 01, 2006, 10:25:35 pm
We can try thinking of a more original name for such steel with "native" patterns like this.

What about Steelvein or Azurevein? (Vein -geology or botanic means)

The above damascus picture remembers me the azurita (http://kaosgeologicas.webcindario.com/imagenes/azuritamarruecos.jpg) crystal (I don't know how to say it in english but i think it's also known as blue copper ore EDIT: it's Lapis Lazuli or azurite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapis_lazuli) in english)
Azurita It's a copper derivated (I think the correct traslation is copper's hydrated carbonate) It's dark blue colored.

Facts: Hindus ensures that azurita helps to burn the karma (bad actions in life). In tradition, it's a symbol of power and royalty. Egyptians used this as a cure for poisons and heal some illness.
Hindus uses azurita in the third eye to free the mind. It raises the spiritual level, makes the body more sensitive, provides vitality and unblock the chakras.
A persian leyend thoughts that earth was laying over a huge azurita crystal and its reflects gaves the color to the sky.
(I could put the link here, but it's in spanish  :oops:)

A question... is the azure sun a lapis lazuli crystal???  :o
Title: Re: Damascus steel
Post by: LARAGORN on December 01, 2006, 11:31:58 pm
Looks kinda like an opal aswell as abalone.

http://www.photovault.com/Link/Animals/Aquatic/lGastropods/show.asp?tg=AALVolume01/AALV01P01_02.4096
http://www.bestcrystals.com/html/jewelry/Opal/JW-OP57b.jpg
Title: Re: Damascus steel
Post by: Gyerfry Stoemsaber on December 03, 2006, 02:28:07 am
Or you could call it azurite, or metalinite. That was just me being wierd. These names just look cool. They mean pretty much nothing.
Title: Re: Damascus steel
Post by: Induane on December 05, 2006, 02:52:17 am
Quote
The texture can be done, though I wonder at how well it would show up on our tiny items.

It would be a good idea to simply overzoom the texture.  Detail is nice but you'd just have to make the details exaggeratedly large to have it show up :) I'll play with skinning one of my current weapons perhaps and see how it looks - but I am guessing it looks awesome.
Title: Re: Damascus steel
Post by: Hatchnet on December 22, 2006, 12:38:11 pm
Uhhh guys for the grain of the metal to show up you have to "acid etch" it (Basicly dipping it in acid long enough to eat off the top layer of the metal) Whether or not this was a part of the original forging process of "Damascus steel" I can't say (at least not without seeing more examples) However if it was not a part of the origional process either they damaged a very valuable artifact to show the grain or that particular piece is a fake (note: when i say this it is because it is not necesary to reveal the grain to be able to see it since it shows up under certain types of radiation examination)
Title: Re: Damascus steel
Post by: zanzibar on December 22, 2006, 01:36:53 pm
Recreations not fakes.
Title: Re: Damascus steel
Post by: bilbous on December 23, 2006, 06:58:53 am
Well slaves do have acid in their stomach...
Title: Re: Damascus steel
Post by: Xurtio on December 24, 2006, 01:57:38 am
I have friend who is a real-life metal smith and he order damascus.  It's really pretty and stable enough, but it's not by any means, the highest quality of metal.

Even if you add the ceremonial or magical aspects to it, I'm assuming (perhaps wrongly) they weren't +3 weapons or anything, and that they were just used to sacrifice people (maybe they're the path between the mortals soul and the god taking the sacrifice, I don't know)

Anyway, here's the process for Damascus they use nowadays (according to my smithy friend who orders it):

They take two different alloys (the two different colors you see) and smash and fold and twist and curl them together, and basically beat the crap out of it anyway they can (contiuously folding it, so that you see the light/dark pattern of the two metals.  The 'spots' come from where they twisted or rolled the pieces, and then smashed and folded them into another piece of metal that's just folded.  Imagine the possibilities.
Title: Re: Damascus steel
Post by: Idoru on December 24, 2006, 03:47:36 am
Quote
They take two different alloys (the two different colors you see) and smash and fold and twist and curl them together, and basically beat the crap out of it anyway they can (contiuously folding it, so that you see the light/dark pattern of the two metals.  The 'spots' come from where they twisted or rolled the pieces, and then smashed and folded them into another piece of metal that's just folded.  Imagine the possibilities.

Yeah, you could do that with steel and silver, then think up a cool name........ maybe silverweave ;)
Title: Re: Damascus steel
Post by: zanzibar on December 24, 2006, 06:42:00 am
I have friend who is a real-life metal smith and he order damascus.  It's really pretty and stable enough, but it's not by any means, the highest quality of metal.

That's because it's modern, not traditional.
Title: Re: Damascus steel
Post by: Nikodemus on December 24, 2006, 11:10:01 am
That's because it's modern, not traditional.
Do we really have pieces of true damascus steel so that it could have been checked its strenght? Btw, you do it by putting a special cutting (metal piece, best in form of a small standarised culinder helpful linky (http://www.czluchow.com.pl/~j-23/zrywara/zdjecia/probka-szyjka.gif)) into a special mashine, which is checking its durability on tearing, bending and similiar. The cutting is destroyed after this.
Had anyone done it?
IMHO it is possible damascus steel was more durable than normal steel, because at that time it wasn't hat good quality. Today steel may be really good quality and maybe damascus is worse compared to this?
Title: Re: Damascus steel
Post by: John80sk on December 24, 2006, 01:44:18 pm
Quote
They take two different alloys (the two different colors you see) and smash and fold and twist and curl them together, and basically beat the crap out of it anyway they can (contiuously folding it, so that you see the light/dark pattern of the two metals.  The 'spots' come from where they twisted or rolled the pieces, and then smashed and folded them into another piece of metal that's just folded.  Imagine the possibilities.
That's just pattern welding...
Title: Re: Damascus steel
Post by: zanzibar on December 24, 2006, 02:32:06 pm
Do we really have pieces of true damascus steel so that it could have been checked its strenght? Btw, you do it by putting a special cutting (metal piece, best in form of a small standarised culinder helpful linky (http://www.czluchow.com.pl/~j-23/zrywara/zdjecia/probka-szyjka.gif)) into a special mashine, which is checking its durability on tearing, bending and similiar. The cutting is destroyed after this.
Had anyone done it?
IMHO it is possible damascus steel was more durable than normal steel, because at that time it wasn't hat good quality. Today steel may be really good quality and maybe damascus is worse compared to this?


Did you read the links?
Title: Re: Damascus steel
Post by: Nikodemus on December 24, 2006, 04:15:47 pm
Did you?

The only reference i could find was on the wiki, not the scentific article, which would be much better trustworthly source.
"Wootz swords were renowned for their sharpness and toughness."
So, i ask again, what make you think it is better than steel of today?
Title: Re: Damascus steel
Post by: zanzibar on December 24, 2006, 09:12:13 pm
Did you?


Very mature.


Just google it.  There are tonnes of articles saying that wootz steel was used to make weapons far superior to the weapons made of modern damascus steel, but that the method for making the ancient style has been lost to time.
Title: Re: Damascus steel
Post by: Nikodemus on December 24, 2006, 10:21:29 pm
Considering the fact first yo asked me to read links in this thread (what i did) and now you ask me to google as i did not find the answer makes me think that you indeed didn't read it, because you would point me to google in the first place. But it doesn't matter, I'm not here to argue...

In the last two posts i asked if damascus is better than steel of today and you are talking about something else.
I'm not interested in finding out if the original damascus is better than damascus imitation of today.
So, give the damn answer or stop pointing me to somewhere if you don't know yourself.
Since you were the one who said it should be /10 if implemented, i was interested what made you think it is 5 times as steel (in fact medieval steel, but as this is fantasy world and it is not exactly medieval with all its rules, i'm interested with comparison to modern steel, which may be better than once).
If you said it, i was hoping you know some articles from which you learned it^^.
If not, just say that you are in fact guessing everything and there is no logic in it.
Title: Re: Damascus steel
Post by: zanzibar on December 24, 2006, 10:58:54 pm
When I first posted in the thread, I was going to post a bunch of links but I later decided against it and just posted a picture instead.  Blame my failing memory, not my intent.