PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: zanzibar on December 05, 2006, 07:03:00 am
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It seems that the price players are willing to pay for weapons has dropped since quality was introduced.
This doesn't make sense to me. Supply is now lower, and demand is higher. Doesn't that mean that prices should have increased? Is is it inflation? Is money worth more than it was previously, also because of the introduction of quality degradation?
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It seems that the price players are willing to pay for weapons has dropped since quality was introduced.
This doesn't make sense to me. Supply is now lower, and demand is higher. Doesn't that mean that prices should have increased? Is is it inflation? Is money worth more than it was previously, also because of the introduction of quality degradation?
This is Right up my alley, being that i'm a weapons Dealer and i face this every day.
Yes Prices have dropped, no it didn't happen recently, it started about a month ago, since then it's been falling.
This is Why:
MONEY!!!
The amount of Money in YLIAKUM is VERY VERY VERY LOW.
Here is why:
Platinum Mine removed: Ability to Generate Revenue Decreased
Quality Introduced: Need to Buy MORE and MORE weapons, AS WELL AS ARMOR.
I've personally spent atleast 10k every 2 weeks or so, just buying ARMOR alone. Because when armor hits 20 or so(Quality), It's Useless.
Sub Problem: Weapon Repair Kits: So many of these have been bought, that if i was the Only SELLER of this in Ylaikum i'd be a Billionaire by now.
Weapon Looting: I've had atleast 20 People testify that the ability to Loot has been altered. Where before you could loot many /6 and higher weapons in a day, It's been reduced to 1 a day if you are Lucky.
This has not been confirmed, even though i've asked about it, but it might be now officially confirmed.
I've personally witnessed this change myself.
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REAL world Dilemma:
In America We have had the same problem that plagued Planeshift, We've actually had it alot of times. What is this problem?
INFLATION!!!
Basically, It's having Too much money roaming around the population.
What is the answer to this inflation? Basically The Government's Tax Rate is Hiked, This affects Loans (interest rate), Housing, Product Prices, EVERYTHING!
Basically It's taking away Money from the Population, That's What the U.S is doing right now and why we're at 10% interest rate.
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So the Makers of Planeshift Saw the same thing Happen in planeshift, That items were too expensive, so thus they decided to Tax us.
How did they tax us?
Quality System Introduced, removing Platinum, and changing the looting system.
The reason why Items are SOOO cheap right now, Isn't because of Supply and Demand, even though supply has been stemmed off a bit,
It's because the amount of money in Ylaikum has been lowered, leaving less money for people.
People have less money to buy items, and thus, if a Seller like Myself gets desperate and NEEDS to sell an SWSS, I'll be willing to take 230k for it.
Where as before... it would hit 400k Easy.
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Again why are prices Lowered, Because the amount of money in Ylaikum has been decreased, through DEV made Taxes.
~~Datruth
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What you call "taxes," especially weapon decay, I call "realism" :]
*edited to add*
This system wasn't put in to "tax" anyone - it was always a plan and meant to encourage crafters.
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What you call "taxes," especially weapon decay, I call "realism" :]
I agree Karyuu, But i called them Taxes, to relate them to the Real World.
I do consider this situation to be "real world" and explained how this same problem affects us here too.
~~Datruth
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EDIT, Responding to Karyuu's EDIT:
*edited to add*
This system wasn't put in to "tax" anyone - it was always a plan and meant to encourage crafters.
I never said it was there to tax anyone.
I did explain though how it reduced the amount of money in Game and Stemmed our inflation. :)
I do not know the intentions of the Devs and would not comment on what they intended. You do though :D
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The only thing that was done directly because of the economy was removing the Platinum mines. Everything else was going to happen sooner or later, as they are the addition of planned features and the needed balancing of weapon rarity.
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The only thing that was done directly because of the economy was removing the Platinum mines. Everything else was going to happen sooner or later, as they are the addition of planned features and the needed balancing of weapon rarity.
To tell you the truth, I'll be the First Weapons Dealer to say that removing Platinum was a good idea.
Prices for weapons were too shifting.
Now we see a static trend which helps us price weapons alot easier.
I have to say, platinum gave us too much money, and now that it's gone, we have a more stable economy.
It did hurt the poor dealers though who bought SWSS's for 400k lol and higher, and now are forced to sell them for 200k :)
We survived though 8)
~~Datruth
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wow, im playing planeshift a few times per month since MB is out, but i dont even know what a SWSS is.. freaks.. ;-)
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i started few weeks ago and i can tell you that a SWSS is a silverweave short sword :P
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wow, im playing planeshift a few times per month since MB is out, but i dont even know what a SWSS is.. freaks.. ;-)
A SWSS is a "Silverweave Short Sword". They are slash 10 short swords which are one of the strongest swords available in the game. I have heard that some people have 10.8 slash broad swords.
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I still like to get myself a second SWD good to hear prizes are lower
/me smiles
The looting has definatelu been tweaked several times even I believe, but that isn't really news to me ;)
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Here's a tip: Don't use SWs to kill rats -_-" Fight everything you can, with melee. That doesn't require repairs.
A full set of armour should be worthed something like 3 LSs looted from a glad. If you play your cards right, you can kill thousands of glads with one armour set. So... armour decay shouldn't be an issue.
There are way better ways to make money than there were before the big wipe, And you can make more too, compared to that time.
And, hee comes the great final tip: Grouping on thougher monsters is good. It is fun, less boring than camping alone and reduces considerably the strain on your weapons or armour.
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@Karyuu: I'm sure you did it to encourage crafters... but maybe you should have done it after you could create more than just regular short swords :| and actually create something at all (I don't know if the system is up and running again)
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Weapon Looting: I've had atleast 20 People testify that the ability to Loot has been altered. Where before you could loot many /6 and higher weapons in a day, It's been reduced to 1 a day if you are Lucky.
This has not been confirmed, even though i've asked about it, but it might be now officially confirmed.
I've personally witnessed this change myself.
I've only looted maybe half a dozen to a dozen silverweave weapons in all the time I've been playing, and there were people who were getting "many" in a single day?
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Peacer: I'm sure we all remember that this is a work in progress, and we cannot add a fully finished feature without testing bits and pieces of it first.
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Weapon Looting: I've had atleast 20 People testify that the ability to Loot has been altered. Where before you could loot many /6 and higher weapons in a day, It's been reduced to 1 a day if you are Lucky.
This has not been confirmed, even though i've asked about it, but it might be now officially confirmed.
I've personally witnessed this change myself.
I've only looted maybe half a dozen to a dozen silverweave weapons in all the time I've been playing, and there were people who were getting "many" in a single day?
I remember a friend looting 2 sw daggers and 2 sw short swords in a day 0.o
Kary: indeed it is :) just like the most in planeshift *poke gimme elfanimations poke*
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Weapon prices dropping drastically since weapons are now no longer indestructible items, assured to serve you for a life time but instead can break ... that makes perfect sense to me.
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Weapon prices dropping drastically since weapons are now no longer indestructible items, assured to serve you for a life time but instead can break ... that makes perfect sense to me.
I agree that what you mentioned is a Big factor.
The Quality element Did hurt the Market.
But it's not the Main Factor. As i mentioned Before, If we were all rolling in Dough, it wouldn't matter how weak Strong Weapons were, I mean seriously, we hardly ever hear about worthless /8 or /10 Weapons.
What we do hear about is the inability to pay for those weapons, and the need to buy them at half of what they used to be.
Not only that, but sellers who need cash quick, and are forced to sell at lower prices.
Quality hurt us.
But the Main hit was the flow of money, which was the Platinum mine.
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A SWSS is a "Silverweave Short Sword". They are slash 10 short swords which are one of the strongest swords available in the game. I have heard that some people have 10.8 slash broad swords.
Malfini there is no BS with 10.8 slash..... Slash 10 is the max, no such Broadsword Exists. :)
The SWSS is the Strongest Sword(NOT one of the strongest), SWLS (Longsword) is only a /2.6. :thumbup:
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I've only looted maybe half a dozen to a dozen silverweave weapons in all the time I've been playing, and there were people who were getting "many" in a single day?
And zanzibar, I never mentioned looting Silverweave weapons more than once in a day.
Although that was possible.
I mentioned looting lots of strong weapons, Such as /6's /8's, and /10's
Before people could loot atleast two /8's a day, and Iron swords were everywhere, with /6 iron Daggers.
But nowadays you'll be lucky if you can work all day long and get even 1 weapon with /6 or higher.
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Here's a tip: Don't use SWs to kill rats -_-" Fight everything you can, with melee. That doesn't require repairs.
A full set of armour should be worthed something like 3 LSs looted from a glad. If you play your cards right, you can kill thousands of glads with one armour set. So... armour decay shouldn't be an issue.
There are way better ways to make money than there were before the big wipe, And you can make more too, compared to that time.
And, hee comes the great final tip: Grouping on thougher monsters is good. It is fun, less boring than camping alone and reduces considerably the strain on your weapons or armour.
And Syilph, Your Suggestions were meaningless, No one uses SWSS's to fight rats :woot: :lol:..... telling us not to is pointless. :whistling:
As for armor: Tell me that spending 10k every two weeks, or even every week, is "not an issue".
That's 20-40k a month. Even if i could acrue that kind of money killing Glad's, Why not use that money as profit, and invest it elsewhere?
It's not like we kill Glads to Pay for our armor.
So yes, Armor decay is an issue, and the costs add up, week to week and month to month.
It's been sucking money out of the economy by the thousands, not like the weapon repair kits, but still a significant amount.
Oh and about Grouping, yea, you can try that, but you might not be so happy when after 6-8 hours of killing, your friend gets the /8 Dagger you wanted.
I'll stick by myself when hunting for weapons, less drama and problems that way. ;)
Grouping is better when you and everyone else is just having fun.
Usually i group during things like the Guild Ulber Hunts because of the amount of hits it takes to take one down, fighting as a team.
~~Datruth
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Malfini there is no BS with 10.8 slash..... Slash 10 is the max, no such Broadsword Exists.
The SWSS is the Strongest Sword(NOT one of the strongest), SWLS (Longsword) is only a /2.6.
Im sure ive seen a /10.8, maybe an Iron LS or something. maybe im just plain wrong.
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Money needs to flow out in these ways.
Before money hardly left the economy at all which caused all these incredibly high prices for the good items.
If you have trias continuously flowing in with the death of monsters and have no way to remove it, everything will get expensive. Very expensive.
The trick to a good game economy is balancing income with expenses. That way if you throw around money without thought or don't take care fo your goods, you'll find yourself poor pretty soon. If you spend it wisely and save up for only what you really need, you're on your way to become a wealthy citizen.
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hmm Karyuu mentioned there were a few rare 10.something weapons out there. So although I asume those are the real bugs supposed to be 1.something probably if Karyuu says it it has to be true ;)
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Datruth, actually frosty bs of peace has slash 10.8 but as far as i know it isnt useable in a fight, so it doesn't make much difference. just thought i'd point out that they do exist.
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Datruth, actually frosty bs of peace has slash 10.8 but as far as i know it isnt useable in a fight, so it doesn't make much difference. just thought i'd point out that they do exist.
I know alot of you have been saying Weapons with higher slash than 10 exist.
Obviously I haven't Seen every weapon out there.
So i took the word of the very same GM's and Devs you yourselves know.
They have commented on this very Board that the highest slash was 10, i believe karyuu herself has posted that as well.
So i understand if you may not take my word on it, and please don't, Take the Gm's and Devs words on it.
I did.
~~Datruth
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I didn't add any comments in this thread about any slash value, nor did any other devs/GMs.
A Frosty Broadsword of Peace has a slash of 10.80 however. The highest slash is supposed to be 10, and anything even slightly more is supposed to be of immense rarity. We obviously have more tweaking to do.
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People trying to analyze Planeshift's economy.
Funny.
And, a question to Datruth: Why Are You Using The Capitals All The Time?
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And, a question to Datruth: Why Are You Using The Capitals All The Time?
Hardly all the time, maybe excessively :P
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I didn't add any comments in this thread about any slash value, nor did any other devs/GMs.
A Frosty Broadsword of Peace has a slash of 10.80 however. The highest slash is supposed to be 10, and anything even slightly more is supposed to be of immense rarity. We obviously have more tweaking to do.
I don't think it is the best way out, i mean. What is important is not the slash, but the slash+blunt/speed ratio. If it was said that any weapon os which this ratio is above 10 will be changed, the i wouldn't complain ;) (the value is just example, but personally i find it right)
The economics of PS.. Like with any other game, economy change as new features are added and as economy touch every aspect of the game, even a tiny and any feature will modify this what is happening on the market. In future will will be harder and harder to know everything by one person, but i suppose it will be a good sign ;)
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I didn't add any comments in this thread about any slash value, nor did any other devs/GMs.
A Frosty Broadsword of Peace has a slash of 10.80 however. The highest slash is supposed to be 10, and anything even slightly more is supposed to be of immense rarity. We obviously have more tweaking to do.
I never said it was in this thread, it was in previous threads.
Also, this is a contradiction, either 10 is the highest, as you've stated in previous threads, or it isn't. Not both.
The highest slash is supposed to be 10, and anything even slightly more is supposed to be of immense rarity.
~~Datruth
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I also said we have more adjusting to do :] You should have underlined "supposed to be." kthx.
*edit*
I think I didn't phrase things well enough - we removed all weapons with a slash above 10. For reasons beyond my understanding at the moment, some that are slightly higher have been popping up. In the scheme of things, these are supposed to be rarer than they currently are. I don't know if the highest is going to be left as 10.8, or dropped down to 10 again.
It could be that 10 is supposed to be the "known ultimate maximum," and anything higher is like "omgomgomgweaponofthegods!" :]
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A couple points I want to make at least one will not be appreciated. I would not pay 50k for the best sword and now that they decay they are worth even less. As far as I am concerned using a silverweave short sword or an iron axe or any of the weapons that are overslash should be considered abusing a bug as it has been reported on these forums that they are not meant to have such high ratings. These reports were in answer to posts asking if the low slash iron and silverweave weapons were bugged. Therefor there should be no market for these weapons and they should be sold only to the npc's just like the other bugged and excessive requirement weapons that can't be used.
I have to admit I have an iron battleaxe and an iron mailed longsword of stone. I use the axe now and then but because the sword is irreparable at currently achievable repair skill I do not use it. I am not sure it is an example of an overslash weapon as it is 8.8 but I would be prepared to give it up if it was so designated. The axe at 10 slash is most probably an example of this kind of bugged weapon.
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It's hard to say what is exactly a bug in terms of weapons and loot and what isn't. Moreover it's even harder to try to enforce anything. We are all expecting a major wipe in the future, so I wouldn't worry about the economy as it is now, in terms of "this isn't supposed to be happening." That will be fixed with the next DB cleaning.
Using weapons with a slash higher than what they are supposed to be later isn't abusing a big - it's using what is currently available, and it's not an issue big enough to attempt to stop it. If you suddenly see a weapon with a slash of 20, we'll remove it. An axe at 10 though, even though that particular axe may be lowered in the future, is not a problem at this time.
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Well of course I was waxing philosophical and not expecting a revolution in usage. O--)
As I said I have used both those weapons to get to where I can fight almost anything with normal weapons. I do feel a little dirty but practically speaking it is the only thing to do.
I just wish I could have repaired my sword before the degradation set in as it will very likely lose several points of max quality to repair it maximally. It is very likely going to take 3 repair sessions to max it so it will be reduced to 47/47 quality. Of course by then it might be removed from the game.
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A couple points I want to make at least one will not be appreciated. I would not pay 50k for the best sword and now that they decay they are worth even less. As far as I am concerned using a silverweave short sword or an iron axe or any of the weapons that are overslash should be considered abusing a bug as it has been reported on these forums that they are not meant to have such high ratings. These reports were in answer to posts asking if the low slash iron and silverweave weapons were bugged. Therefor there should be no market for these weapons and they should be sold only to the npc's just like the other bugged and excessive requirement weapons that can't be used.
I have to admit I have an iron battleaxe and an iron mailed longsword of stone. I use the axe now and then but because the sword is irreparable at currently achievable repair skill I do not use it. I am not sure it is an example of an overslash weapon as it is 8.8 but I would be prepared to give it up if it was so designated. The axe at 10 slash is most probably an example of this kind of bugged weapon.
The Silverweave weapons take up a Niche that we have.
That Niche is strongest weapons that kill with one hit.
Take them away, and the Iron Weapons take it's place, with their /8 Values.
The prices for the silverweaves would simply fall to the irons.
It would literally make no difference, other than IRON taking the Niche of the Silverweave.
And iron hits really really hard too, it's also a 1 hit kill.
So i don't know why you would say they are better than the silverweave.
Even if the silvers have higher point values, Both hit and kill 95% of the time on 1 strike.
To me, they're both equal.
To get rid of one, would be to get rid of the other as well.
But no matter what, the Highest Slashes, will always take over this niche, and keep Prices High, with this exception:
If they get rid of all weapons Higher than /4, than we'd have such a high supply of those weapons, that their prices wouldn't be higher than 20k each.
So if you truly want to get rid of this "overpoweredness"( :D lol my new word), and ability to kill seamingly always with 1 hit, ASK the devs to get rid of weapons with slash 4 and higher.
If that measure isn't taken, then getting rid of silverweaves alone does nothing, and you are ol.k with this quote "overpowerdness".
It's hard to say what is exactly a bug in terms of weapons and loot and what isn't. Moreover it's even harder to try to enforce anything. We are all expecting a major wipe in the future, so I wouldn't worry about the economy as it is now, in terms of "this isn't supposed to be happening." That will be fixed with the next DB cleaning.
That's not true, there are no plans for a wipe yet, and the details of any said wipe haven't been discussed.
I don't think saying it's the answer to all our problems, when all aspects of it haven't been decided yet, could be fault proof.
Hey Aryhann, i just had a question
Is there any word on when or if the character wipe will happen?
Will we even have the option of saving guilds or items?
Is there any info at all about this or is this all pure speculation at this point?
~~Datruth
Hi Datruth,
I have no clue about any project for a character wipe. I haven't heard it in a long long time.
Most probably, there will be a future implementation of saving guilds and item, but I don't think it is in a plan for a close future.
Nothing official, that I know.
Regards,
AryHann
~~Datruth
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But we do have a plan for a wipe :] It goes something like this: "Plan for wipe." It's planned. When is it going to happen? We don't know. Will it happen? Absolutely. Do we have a To-Do List full of specific things that need to be done before a wipe? No. We just know that it will be done, because it's inevitable. Ask Ary.
As for it being the "answer to all our problems," all a wipe is is the cleaning of the slate after several fixes and balances have been done. So no, it's not the answer in and of itself. I brought it up to say that worrying about weapon slashes not being as they are meant to be right now and it affecting the economy isn't an issue.
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But we do have a plan for a wipe :] It goes something like this: "Plan for wipe." It's planned. When is it going to happen? We don't know. Will it happen? Absolutely. Do we have a To-Do List full of specific things that need to be done before a wipe? No. We just know that it will be done, because it's inevitable. Ask Ary.
As for it being the "answer to all our problems," all a wipe is is the cleaning of the slate after several fixes and balances have been done. So no, it's not the answer in and of itself. I brought it up to say that worrying about weapon slashes not being as they are meant to be right now and it affecting the economy isn't an issue.
Oh o.k, this makes more sense now, it's just the way it was written before it was like everything was planned and ready to be put into action.
As for the economy, will it remain stable Karyuu, or have you heard from the devs about possibly changing weapons abit and maybe getting rid of gold.
What i mean to say is will our economy be hit hard again like the loss of another mine, or the loss of weapons of /4 and higher?
You don't have to discuss the feature being introduced, only that we can look forward to a huge change in the economy
~~Datruth
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Well I think that anything with / > 6 should be rare, that is you get one in a week, if you keep trying to and do nothing else.
A /10 weapon should be generated once in a week, globally.
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Datruth: There aren't any major changes planned to the economy directly - except for new features, and there's no way to predict how they'll affect the economy once they're in. I can't say more than that on the subject at the moment. /10 however is meant to be the "final choice" for slash value, at least right now. Can't predict project leaders either :]
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Well I think that anything with / > 6 should be rare, that is you get one in a week, if you keep trying to and do nothing else.
A /10 weapon should be generated once in a week, globally.
To tell you the truth, I would love that move actually.
Not me personally, but my wallet.
Why?
Because All Prices for all /6 and higher weapons would skyrocket.
You would squeeze the supply so much that prices would go through the roof.
Stemming supply isn't the answer, it's already been stemmed enough, in my opinon.
And Thank you Karyuu for your swift response :D, I just wish i could know more of your Secrets 8)
Or maybe i already do ;) lol.
~~Datruth
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A wipe does not have to mean a full wipe, the mega slash weapon wipe did not trash any characters nor did the platinum money wipe (I wasn't around for either of them and don't even know if they were the same but my character remained virtually intact when I susequently returned.)
I never said iron was better than silverweave I lumped them together. The idea of trading in looted weapons is distasteful to me as it causes some people to mine Gladiators and rogues at the expense of the people who want there own chance to loot these things. I have done a lot of fighting in the arena and only found the iron axe in the way of what passes for a mega weapon now. My iron longsword of stone is a relic of the 50+ slash days that I hadn't gotten around to selling to the npcs before I went into hibernation.
That niche you speak of is the niche of the profiteers. The only reason you can get away with this is because there is no way to lose your weapons otherwise you would be beaten down and forcefully relieved of them. To me that makes it OOC. Personally I give my alts mid level weapons to use but I have also given them to strangers if I happened to have them in my pack. I have no use for the auction channel because if I can't get something for myself in the game I don't need it. If there is something I do need that I can't get then that is a flaw in the game design. Some quests should not be repeatable. I would go so far as to say that most quests should be one time affairs. Those people going around doing the second and third level glyph quests repeatedly are to my mind no different than the weapon miners and I have no use for them either. It wouldn't be so bad if you just gave them away but these quests, I believe, are ones that are more difficult and less common and doing them by rote repeatedly is preventing someone else from trying them.
That's my story and I am sticking with it.
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I have no use for the auction channel because if I can't get something for myself in the game I don't need it. If there is something I do need that I can't get then that is a flaw in the game design.
That's my story and I am sticking with it.
....so if you can't procure something yourself, then that's a flaw in game design....
I'm sorry but if we could all get whatever we wanted, without each others help, this game would be useless.
And i'm sorry to say that if you want an SWSS anytime soon, you'll have to rely on someone else to loot it, and use your money to buy it.
The vast majority will not loot an SWSS, and that's a good thing, not a game flaw.
Those are the facts of the world, and i'm sticking by them.
~~Datruth
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I have no use for the auction channel because if I can't get something for myself in the game I don't need it. If there is something I do need that I can't get then that is a flaw in the game design.
I disagree. I think that people who work together should benefit from their cooperation. Let's say that you have two characters. If one specializes in metalurgy and the other specializes in crafting, then together they will surpass what either could do alone if they had to do everything themselves.
Ok. So if you powerlevel your character, then maybe you can do everything by yourself. Fine. But I don't think that's as fun as working with other people, it will take a lot more effort on your part, and it's just a bit OOC.
That niche you speak of is the niche of the profiteers.
He meant that the most powerful weapons should be able to kill in one hit, and silverweave weapons are the weapons which do such a thing.
Besides that, what do you mean by a "profiteer"? Do you mean someone who wants to make a profit? Are you saying that characters in game shouldn't try to make a profit from their work and items?
Well I think that anything with / > 6 should be rare, that is you get one in a week, if you keep trying to and do nothing else.
A /10 weapon should be generated once in a week, globally.
Rare, but not so rare that you can't get one of your own eventually. Really, I think they shouldn't be looted very often at all, and instead people should be able to craft them if they have enough time and skill.
Personally, I think NPCs should drop only broken weapons. People should buy their weapons from craftsmen. It would make things more realistic, it would stimulate the player economy, and it would encourage people to interact with eachother. It would also encourage the specialization of characters, which is something that has been talked about on this forum in the past.
I would not pay 50k for the best sword and now that they decay they are worth even less.
Are you speaking from an IC or OOC perspective? IC, yes. 50k is a fortune. However, OOC, the best weapons have gone for an excess for 1,000,000 trias. It all depends on how much other people are willing to pay.
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I'm quite capable of standing on the dlayo platform with 2 of my alts for hours on end killing the three rogues over and over like it seems some people do but I am not that ignorant. I don't need a bugged piece of crud sword to make myself feel good. Neither do I need to monopolize mobs that drop bonus stuff just so I can rip people off to make more money than I can ever spend. As far as something I do need goes it would be something like a quest item for significant character growth and not some crummy uber weapon. So, for example, if I have to do a quest to get a glyph in order to train that way beyond a certain level and I cannot get that quest because someone has timed its appearance and grabs it everytime it is available just to sell that glyph then that is a game flaw because even if I buy the glyph I still won't be able to advance in that way because it requires the quest. I am not sure if any such quest is in the game or planned for the game but it would not surprise me in the slightest and that specifically is the type of quest that should not be repeatable. In the case that more than one of those glyphs is needed for certain spells that quest could enable you to buy that glyph anytime after finishing the quest. It might just be that the npc who gave you the quest tells you who to talk to and he will sell them to you at a high price if you have that quest completion flag set.
While I was writing this Zanzibar made his post and I will attempt to answer some of it.
I think that people who work together should benefit from their cooperation.
I got no problem with that. If you got skills I don't and if I got ones you don't I'll swap you job for job.
Ok. So if you powerlevel your character, then maybe you can do everything by yourself. Fine. But I don't think that's as fun as working with other people, it will take a lot more effort on your part, and it's just a bit OOC.
So in your world there are no social misfits no outcasts or pariahs or stinking blobs that no-one can stand to be near. There is always someone there when you need them and being self-sufficient is anathaema. What if I don't like people? What if my character thinks all the other characters are blithering idiots or worse, degenerate perverts? What if my characters back story is such that nobody can be trusted? Should I go somewhere else? Who has the right to tell me that I can't play the way that I want as long as I don't break the rules. Is there a rule that would prevent me from playing a hermit? These are just a few examples of characters who would not willingly work with others.
Besides that, what do you mean by a "profiteer"?
I mean someone who monopolizes high yield mobs as often as they can and for as long as they can for the sole purpose of looting that uber weapon and selling it at an outrageous price. Personally I don't pvp so I don't need a 1 hit wonder. If I were to duel I would specify store bought weapons.
Are you speaking from an IC or OOC perspective? IC, yes. 50k is a fortune. However, OOC, the best weapons have gone for an excess for 1,000,000 trias. It all depends on how much other people are willing to pay.
I am speaking from any context. 50k is 6 or eight good hours in the arena fighting gladiators. It is also leass than two levels of sword training at my level (~50). Tell me how long do you think it would take a new character to be able to pay a million tria for a sword? It will only happen if there is some money bug to exploit and the weapon miners make sure that they will never be able to loot one. These items just ensure that the elite never lose their leetness. They should be taken out of the game or made so common that everyone has one.
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I don't need a bugged piece of crud sword to make myself feel good.
There are still bugged weapons in the game? I thought the devs took out all the swords with a slash above ten? Even then, silverweave isn't that much more powerful than iron.
Neither do I need to monopolize mobs that drop bonus stuff just so I can rip people off to make more money than I can ever spend.
One, I don't see how you're ripping people off if they're buying what they think they're buying. Two, I've had millions of trias and now my character is broke. I guess you just need to find a better way to spend money.
As far as something I do need goes it would be something like a quest item for significant character growth and not some crummy uber weapon.
Why is it "crummy"? What are you trying to communicate by that word?
So, for example, if I have to do a quest to get a glyph in order to train that way beyond a certain level and I cannot get that quest because someone has timed its appearance and grabs it everytime it is available just to sell that glyph then that is a game flaw because even if I buy the glyph I still won't be able to advance in that way because it requires the quest.
Well, yeah. But that's not exactly related to this discussion. I started a thread in the wish forum where we discussed this issue.
So in your world there are no social misfits no outcasts or pariahs or stinking blobs that no-one can stand to be near.
In my world, social misfits who don't work with others will not be able to accomplish as much as people who work with guilds or groups. It goes with the territory, and I don't think it's unnatural or unrealistic.
I mean someone who monopolizes high yield mobs as often as they can and for as long as they can for the sole purpose of looting that uber weapon and selling it at an outrageous price.
No price is outrageous if someone is willing to pay.
50k is 6 or eight good hours in the arena fighting gladiators.
Also known as a farmer's earnings for 250 years.
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Thank you zanzibar for understanding what i meant when i used the word "niche".
Regardless of Silverweaves, there will always be a niche, a "most powerfull weapon" that people will pay money for.
I didn't understand what he meant by Niche of the profiteers either..... it would be everyone's niche.
Everyone would hold that sword in high regard, even if they got rid of all weapons of /3 and higher, the /2.9's would be the "strongest" weapons, and their supply would be closely monitored.
And in EVERY world, those who do not work with others fail.
The human race has internet, computers, rockets, satallites, and a plethera of others things because we worked together.
Not working together should come with a consequence.
Also, those who use multiple clients should be banned, It's not right using more than one client at once, and weapon's dealers/ looters can't be held liable for things cheaters do.
"I don't need a bugged piece of crud sword to make myself feel good"
I don't care what you say bilbous because i know you love that Iron Axe of yours. :)
You can act all you want but you know you need it and you know it's very powerfull.
If you totally disagree with me, and still feel you don't need it, than give me your axe, or better yet, sell it to me for 50k.
You won't do either because i know you are attached to that weapon regardless of what you say.
This isn't wrong, but it's human nature, we like power, and when an object gives it to us, we relish it.
I must thank zanzibar again for his last post, he addressed alot of the topics that needed addressing, saving me the trouble of having to go through them all.
Thanks bud :thumbup: :D
~~Datruth
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One thing:
Also, those who use multiple clients should be banned, It's not right using more than one client at once, and weapon's dealers/ looters can't be held liable for things cheaters do.
Why, and what are you referring to?
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One thing:
Also, those who use multiple clients should be banned, It's not right using more than one client at once, and weapon's dealers/ looters can't be held liable for things cheaters do.
Why, and what are you referring to?
Multiple clienting, as Bilbous and I were referring to it:
The process of a player using more than one Client, and logging into more than one account, at the same time, with more than one character, using them all to kill and loot.
Basically it's 2 or 3 different characters, hitting 2-3 different Npc's, Looting 2-3 times faster, at the same time.
I am fine with creating alternate characters, and even alternate accounts, but USING 2 or more characters AT ONCE to help you loot faster, is wrong in my opinion.
I consider that cheating, even though i do not know the Dev's Policies on this action.
Regardless, i hold my own level of morals, and each player should play with 1 character at a time.
~~Datruth
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Also, those who use multiple clients should be banned, It's not right using more than one client at once, and weapon's dealers/ looters can't be held liable for things cheaters do.
I agree, but only if they're using them to hog spawns.
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This (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=25507.0) thread would seem to have something to say about weapons. Pay attention to the posts from the PS officials. It is a few months old I admit but I have not seen any relevent changes that would make me assume anything like finality has occured. There are plenty of bugged weapons in the game I have at least five with .2 or less speed. The fact that silverweave gives a 5x bonus unless that would make the slash >10 maybe isn't a bug but it is a hack that will likely be changed. If silverweave has magical properties it is very unlikely that more would equal less of course magic does not have to follow logic. I suspect what they should really do is tweek it so that the rate made the longsword about 10 slash and everything smaller would be proportional to that. They probably are not changing it because it is not that important and it will eventually be quite different.
All my money goes on training, which includes buying potions so I do not have to stand aroud for twenty minutes between fights in order to heal. It is a little more expensive but you also loot more in the same period.
It is crummy because it is the result of unbalanced code that remains because it works and besides it is all going to change. No disrespect to the devs is intended here.
Hmm in the world I live in there are two kinds of psychopaths, the ones that do horrible things and get locked up or worse and those who do horrible things of a different nature and rise to the top of the business and ruling elite.
The latter take care of each other until they get the chance to destroy their rivals with no risk to themselves. They can be quite sociable if they put their mind to it even if it is just a facade. They take care of each other because they know that if the masses ever thought it possible ... well look at what happened to Marie Antoinette and her friends. Of course that happened when some not quite so well connected psychos managed to stir up the masses and ride them to power. It has happened before and it will happen again except it can't happen in the game because you can't do anything to someone who doesn't allow it.
As far as the multiclienting goes I am positive it goes on all the time but I have no proof, circumstantial evidence at best. I might even be wrong and people just like to have conversations when they are standin on top of dlayo and his two cohorts amoung others. If I am not fighting a particular mob I try to stand away from it although I do not always remember.
AS far as the iron axe goes I haven't used it since the weapon degrading has come into effect. Why would I when I can kill anything without it and using it would just degrade it? I tell you what, I'll sacrifice it and my iron mailed longsword of stone to a GM for distruction if you do the same with two weapons of equal value. That is a /10 axe and a /8.8 longsword. I am sure we could trust a GM to dispose of them in such a way as to remove them from the game if that is what was asked of them.
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There are weapons with a speed of .2? Just how much time are you spending in the arena? I've never seen anything like that before.
What the heck do psychopaths have to do with anything in this thread?
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AS far as the iron axe goes I haven't used it since the weapon degrading has come into effect. Why would I when I can kill anything without it and using it would just degrade it? I tell you what, I'll sacrifice it and my iron mailed longsword of stone to a GM for distruction if you do the same with two weapons of equal value. That is a /10 axe and a /8.8 longsword. I am sure we could trust a GM to dispose of them in such a way as to remove them from the game if that is what was asked of them.
I'm not the one who doesn't need his /10 weapons, or his /8 weapons.
You feel them crummy and useless, i do not.
If you truly feel that way, which i think is a game, then you would dispose of them or sell them to me for 50k.
Doing neither shows your attachment to them.
~~Datruth
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Personally im very attatched to my decent weapons :love:. It took alot of time and effort to get them. That is also why I will no longer use them :D
I guess that makes them pretty worthless as weapons now but at least I can keep them as collectors pieces until the next w*pe.
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There are weapons with a speed of .2? Just how much time are you spending in the arena? I've never seen anything like that before.
I have 2 weapons that are .2 speed, and I only occationaly spend time in the arena.
I have also seen items with faster speeds than that.
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I spend most of the time that I am doing stuff in the arena. I occaisionally go elsewhere but that is mostly what I do. I spend some time making a donkey of my self in front of harn either socialising or just being an irratic pest. The decimal speed weapons are as I said bugged and I have more than I thought as some weapons I keep for their other qualities turned out to have those speed. The psychopaths came in the thread in response to your posts which I will summarize as "let's all be hippies and live in a commune", i.e. the ones where you stress the importance of player cooperation. I was merely showing that the world is not full of cooperators and perhaps we should not enforce that style of existence on the players.
Datruth: Why the heck would I sell them to you? I could always use them to level up my alts although they would not last long enough to get the alt I gave them to very far.
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I never said "let's all be hippies and live in a commune". I said that people who work together will be able to accomplish more than those who work alone.
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Datruth: Why the heck would I sell them to you? I could always use them to level up my alts although they would not last long enough to get the alt I gave them to very far.
Oh so i see, when you use weapons that kill with one hit, it's o.k
But when Other players use weapons that kill with one hit... it's not o.k... and it's exploiting a bug.
I think that's called Hypocracy, and i'd have to say, you do not believe SWSS's and weapons of that same kind are bugged, for if you had such a problem with them, you yourself would not Exploit their power.
Saying i'm against people using slaves, and using them myself, again is hypocrisy and is wrong.
Either call them bugged and overpowered and Dispose of them, or Relish their power and use them, you can't do both morally.
~~Datruth
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Think what you want Dat I didn't say I was going to use them, if fact I previously said that I wasn't, I said I could. Besides as long as it is officially acceptable to use them there is no reason why I shouldn't. That doesn't mean I cannot lobby to change policy at the same time.
Maybe I'll go do some ulber hunting and go toe to toe with 50 potions in one hand and my iron axe in the other. Unfortunately I don't believe you can put potions in your hand or that you would be able to use them if you did. If you were able to equip a stack of potions in your hand such that that hand did not attack would it still be unacceptable to use potions during battle? What is the appropriate usage rate for a potion, is it faster than a dagger attack or longer than a claymore or somewhere in between? Does it depend on previous preparation? Would it be better if you could buy different sized containers that would hold multiple uses of potions? Would a dwarf with an axe in one hand and a keg of beer in the other be able to ignore pain better and fight longer?
Will I ever stop asking questions and giving opinions?
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Will I ever stop asking questions and giving opinions?
Uh..... I don't think the problem is that you ask questions and give opinions. I think the problem is that you started to go offtopic and you kinda ignored the points Datruth made and questions Datruth asked of you.
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Think what you want Dat I didn't say I was going to use them, if fact I previously said that I wasn't, I said I could. Besides as long as it is officially acceptable to use them there is no reason why I shouldn't. That doesn't mean I cannot lobby to change policy at the same time.
Ohh i see now ;)
As long as it's officially acceptabe by law to use slaves, i'll use them, while lobbying to give them freedom.
Again... hypocracy.
And no i can't force you to do anything, all i said was basically, put your money where your mouth is, if such and such weapons are wrong, get rid of them, you folded your hand and said..... well.... i could always use them, and it's not WRONG to use them.
From a Legal Standpoint, you're right Bilbous, It is not wrong to use them now, it's fine.
From a Moral Standpoint, after having lobbied against them and those who use them, it is wrong to use them.
And thank you zanzibar for your post :D, maybe now he'll answer this question head on, if he'll use them or lose them.
~~Datruth
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Your over the top rhetoric about slavery is unjustified and cheapens the discussion. Are you really equating a disagreement over rules in a on-line game with the ownership and degradation of humans? Why should I take anything you say seriously if you are and why should I take seriously anyone who supports that position?
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Your over the top rhetoric about slavery is unjustified and cheapens the discussion. Are you really equating a disagreement over rules in a on-line game with the ownership and degradation of humans? Why should I take anything you say seriously if you are and why should I take seriously anyone who supports that position?
Fine, it's o.k, don't take me seriously, and forget i said anything lol :)
I hate running around in circles with people, and at this point i will just drop it, if you don't see how your actions are morally wrong, then i can't help you anymore.
AS for the thread, Weapon prices have dropped much more than i thought, I had trouble selling my Iron Short sword, which is a /8, I was only asking 150k for it to, but it seems that's a bit too much...
~~Datruth
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Maybe that is because 150k for a weapon that won't last much more than a couple weeks of regular use is ludicrous.
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Maybe that is because 150k for a weapon that won't last much more than a couple weeks of regular use is ludicrous.
Who regularly uses a /8 weapon?
It's meant to be for Either ulbers, on rare occasions, or People, when you duel.
Or for Re sale, if you're in that buisness.
We players carry around other weapons for regular use, mine for example are 2 Crafted swords, been using them for weeks, started at 300, now at 280.
~~Datruth
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A low skilled player wanting to level up/treasure hunt on gladiators and rogues? Of course at that price they would have to be an alt of some rich players or sell their soul to a banker...That is what I used mine for. Now I can kill a gladiator in one to three exchanges ( that would be two to six hits ) with store quality weapons. I have no idea what I could do with a 300/50 weapon I haven't bothered to try to make one. Maybe if I'm good santa will drop one in my lap for presentmas.
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A low skilled player wanting to level up/treasure hunt on gladiators and rogues? Of course at that price they would have to be an alt of some rich players or sell their soul to a banker...That is what I used mine for. Now I can kill a gladiator in one to three exchanges ( that would be two to six hits ) with store quality weapons. I have no idea what I could do with a 300/50 weapon I haven't bothered to try to make one. Maybe if I'm good santa will drop one in my lap for presentmas.
I've done a test a while back of Crafted weapons.
They are stronger than /4's, so i do not use my /4's anymore, rather i use the crafteds.
~~Datruth
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Maybe that is because 150k for a weapon that won't last much more than a couple weeks of regular use is ludicrous.
That would be true if it weren't for the fact that money from the 85M bug is still floating around.
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I thought a cash wipe had happened, was it ineffective? If it happened it must have been.
It certainly seems like it would be a turn-off to a new player to know that they will never get one of the quality items in the game, I guess that is why there are so many gold miners. I guess I should not say never I could probably get that much in a week if I stopped training but not getting practice for fighting when there is possibility for advancement is a waste of time to me. I got lucky with the iron axe finding it within a week of my return.
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I thought a cash wipe had happened was it ineffective? If it happened it must have been.
It reduced everyone to something like 100,000 trias, but I know for a fact that many people invested all their money in glyphs before the wipe so they avoided losing any money.
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Obviously the thing to do is to wipe all cash and items to restore balance. I suppose there is some reluctance to do that as for some reason they didn't do it in the first place.
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Obviously the thing to do is to wipe all cash and items to restore balance. I suppose there is some reluctance to do that as for some reason they didn't do it in the first place.
Personally, I don't care if someone else has more money than me in game.
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Obviously the thing to do is to wipe all cash and items to restore balance. I suppose there is some reluctance to do that as for some reason they didn't do it in the first place.
A full wipe of cash and items would cause more chaos then restore balance.
Remember you are only wiping it to give the new players a chance, giving the new players a chance does not override all the people who did not exploit bugs and got all their items fairly.
I'd rather say to the new players, no worries, only a few players did such and such, work your way up, don't worry about anyone else, and you'll do fine.
~~Datruth
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A full wipe of cash and items would cause more chaos then restore balance.
For a time, but then things would settle out.
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I don't either but it sounds like the only ones who got caught short by the wipe were the ones who were out of the loop and anyone who made their money from a bug (it has officially been called a bug hasn't it?) and still has it despite the wipe is abusing that bug to this day. It has been tolerated and is unlikely to change but I think this is a perfectly valid viewpoint. Surely it is a bug (unintended side effect) that would allow someone to buy several million trias worth of anything. The only conceivable reason to do so is for just that purpose, avoid a system balance operation. If glyphs are that common why can't you find them by the side of the road like a mushroom and how long would it take you to pick a thousand mushrooms which is how many glyphs a million tria could buy. (Is my math off?) Or does Levrus have a "conjure glyph by the thousand" spell?
It wouldn't take me too long to get back to where I am if a full item/cash wipe happened. I might never get another iron weapon but that wouldn't bother me.