PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Ceriy on December 09, 2006, 02:32:13 am
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Being italian, I have always some problem in RP because my dictionary is very limited. Event talking with guild members, sometimes, I have some problem.
So I thought about an integrated translator in the chat window. It would be nice, isn't it?
Because OSS, I think about dictionary files. They exists free!!! In many languages also!
I usually use this software to do some translations: http://stardict.sourceforge.net/ and these are some links to download some dictionary files http://www.stardict.org/download.php.
Dictionaries are free, and the software is OSS. I don't think to do a complete and automatic translator, but a sort of "single word" translator, so any user, internally to the game, could translate any term he have in mind.
What do you think?
Being a client modification, wich don't involve any server communication and game enviroment, it should be easy to start...
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i think it would be nice..but i also think this game was deisgned for uk english..no offense, i mean i can sympathize (not completely since i speak english :P) but i do try to understand where you are coming from. there are many guilds out there adn players out there with english-as-second language, that could give you some recommendations (cant think of any names sorrys :/) like dictionaries and what not to use that are online...uhmmmm
the game is still in development and i dunnos if the peoples that do all that would consider it as a possibility anytime soon...i sorrys, but thats jsut from what ive seen *hugs*
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You can use the chat filter for this. But only for incoming words. The outgoing filter is still broke that I know of.
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Such translator would only help comunicating in english, tell me Kalika how it would work against speaking with english.
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Good idea IMO; nearly all people with english as first language don't bother learning other languages... At least it seems like it was like that ;)
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Some guilds even go so far as only accepting members that speak a particular language...
*cough*the jumping groffel*cough*
Wrong if you ask me.
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I think that guilds like the Woiperdinger serve a de facto purpose. The language of the game is supposed to be English yes, and in a perfect world everybody would speak it in game (in game in game dont flame me). But in reality there are going to be a lot of different people coming through this game, and I think having a guild dedicated to helping particular players is not only a good idea, it is going to happen whether anyone approves of it or not. Better to have those people talking in guild together than to have everyone speaking in main. Besides: Just about everyone I have met in game from other countries is making *serious* efforts to learn English.
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ok, but the topic was about in game translater from other languages to english and similiar. So that people not knowing english well, could enderstand and write faster in english.
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Well whether the people understand what these translators translate is another thing... :D
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Such translator would only help comunicating in english, tell me Kalika how it would work against speaking with english.
i dunnos, i suppose im jsut a fool who misintrepreted what it meant
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Well, I have tried to use online Translators myself.
Lets try Babelfish (http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr) with a nice simple two sentance phrase:
I have a big red ball. Do you want to play with it?
Italian translation:
Ho una sfera rossa grande. Desiderate giocare con esso?
And back to English:
I have one great red sphere. Wished to play with it?
Now even with that really simple phrase it just doesnt work very well. I dont speak Italian so if someone could tell me if the italian translation is close that would be helpful.
I personally cant see too many ideas being conveyed effectively using translation software.
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You know Idoru, we humans are supposed to have brain and as translators usually give few translations of the same word, it is up t ue to choose the right. I often work with online translator and i never give whole senteces to translate.
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I often work with online translator and i never give whole senteces to translate.
But from what I can see that isnt the point of the topic at all. From what I have read the original poster wants a realtime online translator that can help him out in game. I may be wrong but thats what it looks like.
[Edit] Even if you use single word translation I would bet that the tenses are very often wrong. as would be the grammar and punctuation.
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By the gods, no!
This will only give more problems with RP'ing because people will become too lazy to even try English.
Stuff will get confusing as Idoru pointed out, good live translations are simply impossible.
Instead, learn English.
It's not that hard ;)
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I give up, because otherwise i will start swearing at you and making allusions you won't like.
You know, he threw some idea and as we have already came to a conclusion real time translating isn't working perfectly, one way out is to modify it so that using your brain you can complete the sentence in the right way.
I have nothing more to say.
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The translators are questionable at best and you really need someone (preferably yourself) to know what you are actually saying if you use the translated text. Even then, you could still have multiple possible translations of a given word or sentence depending on regional dialectical factors, that's one of the reasons a good translator is paid a lot of money to do their job. And the trouble with the subject is why the game is meant to be in English. Sorry if I went off topic, I have not been able to be in game for a loong time and I am getting kinda zoinked...
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Nikodemus grab my idea (as usual, reading his forum posts).
It was implicit that:
- users must know English grammar
- users must know a basic vocabulary
And it's implicit, also, that whole sentences can't be translated perfectly.
And it's implicit, also, that user who don't speak english everyday can't write always good (I mean correct) english sentences.
My idea is an help (to permit non english language users) to write english without having a vaste dictionary in mind. As example, if I'm mining and I want to say: "Whoa, I'm exhausted", but I don't know the english word "exhausted", I have to search in an external dictionary (and this cause my game to be windowed, having a program wich translate words and so on... or worste, in a dictiornary book). If I can know that translation (of the word "exhausted") directly in PS, it better for me and for who listen.
This idea will cause, in my opinion:
- Better (non english) user feeling
- Better player communication, OOC and IC (PS is based on communication, right?)
Also, non english users have a chance to enlarge their dictionaries.
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Being in globalized world, english is a standard communication language. The game is planned to be english, because if not, it couldn't reach anyone!
Effectively, english is a language with easy grammar, but this is not a reason to say "Learn english, fool"... don't flame me because this, but because most of english users don't learn alternative languages, and most users speak english natively, these users can think that only english users can enjoy PS; and this is totally wrong, because PS is started from an italian guy(s), and without him/they, all PS users couldn't enjoy PS. I don't want define who thinks to be superior because its english capabilities...
I want a integrated tool wich HELPS communication, and don't substitute my brain (as someone said ;)).
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I want a integrated tool wich HELPS communication, and don't substitute my brain (as someone said ).
How I see it is that is the problem. That may be what you want but users who dont have such a knowledge of english as you have will come into the game and put words into the translator and then string them together as they would be ordered in their native language. I can almost guarantee that this will happen and result in people stood at Harnquists saying abolute nonsense and getting annoyed that no one is talking sense (as far as their translations are concerned) back to them.
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Well... I am quite sure anyone who is going to play this game has at least the basic knowledge... Except a few who needed about 2 weeks to "understand" the basics of the game because what they read in the tutorial is for them just random letters put in random places... And... Most of the languages(at least those with latin/germanic roots, that means msot of the European languages) have a very similar order of words. That means, even if they would do this "putting just the words into the translator and writing them in the order of their nativ language" communication was still possible...
Well, I like the idea, but the problems is... You can't have a translator for all languages so you have to select a few because you can't have a translator for all. And even if you choose the most important(let me think... French, German, Italian, Polish, Spanish,[maybe Japanese or Chinese but they usually got all a good education...], maybe an Afircan language) makes about 7 languages...
And if you want to have a translator, it needs to be programmed/suited to work in-game and the admins need to get a translator(I doubt anyone will let them use their translator FREE for a game...) or they need to programm it on their own.... Forget the self-programming...
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Language translations are not easy though. There are many companies and industries devoted to doing such things, and there has never been one that has found a one-size-fits-all solution to the problem of translation. Developing this could easily take longer and more resources than the game itself. It is not meant to be a "you must learn English" type of directive from the developers, it is just what makes the most sense going forward. Please notice I said "the most sense", not "the best and perfect way". The perfect situation would be to have something that auto-translates one language to another taking into account all possible dialects, variations, inclusion of uncommon or obscure words, from any language to any other language. It is not a simple propisition. Not every word in every language has an English word, and vice-versa, and there are about a thousand other problems with doing this. That is why translators, good ones, are highly-paid people with real job security. I am not saying don't do this or stop thinking about it, I just think that this project, at this point in it's history, does not have the resources to provide something like this in game.