PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Malfini on December 14, 2006, 03:33:07 am
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Sometimes when I call a male dwarf a "man" they become offended and will say something like "I'm not a man! I'm a dwarf!". The problem is that it is annoying to have to say "male dwarf" or "female dwarf" instead of "man" or "woman". I was wondering if there are some gender specific nouns to use for dwarfs. If there aren't how does "mwarf" for a male dwarf and "fwarf" for a female dwarf sound? I have seen similar fictitious nouns like "fenki" and "menki" used for the Enkidukais.
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If you call me a "mwarf" in game you might find a Silverweave at your throat very sudden like. :D
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Dwarves and Dwarfettes :)
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If you call me a "mwarf" in game you might find a Silverweave at your throat very sudden like. :D
Dueling with Silverweaves with maxed or close to maxed characters is dumb IMO. I'd rather duel with 1 ruined short sword and a shield so that there won't be a one hit kill. Either way though I may call dwarf characters "mwarfs" or "fwarfs". ;)
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Um... that was what was called a tongue-in-cheek response, Malfini. Dwarves tend to be a little sensitive, and their response to you calling them a "man" was probably all IC.
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Um... that was what was called a tongue-in-cheek response, Malfini. Dwarves tend to be a little sensitive, and their response to you calling them a "man" was probably all IC.
Yes, they're sensitive; which is why I think we should have gender specific nouns for them.
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how about stumps and strump-ettes? :D
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Heh... Bilbous has the best ones yet... personally I like to call other dwarves "shorty"...
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I have nothig against if someone ICly call to me "hey man" In a world where are many inteligent races and we use language created ina world where is only one race, i treat words, which could be race specific as words describing any race in general.
The only bad thing i see in "hey man" is that it sounds a bit modern.
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Brother dwarf
sis'
those two are used quite a bit I suppose.
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Brother dwarf
sis'
those two are used quite a bit I suppose.
Primarily only fellow dwarfs use those terms with each other though. Also, "brother dwarf" is two words, I was looking for one word gender specific nouns for dwarfs which could make things much easier. Thank you though. :)
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This interest in gender differences seems odd to me. I am a DWARF, not a 'dwarfette' or a 'fwarf'. While other races might want to put their females into a different class or give them stupid diminuitive names. like 'lassie' or 'girl' (I am 148 years old, for goodness' sake!), we are dwarfs - all dwarfs are equal in the great kinship. We all fight, we all work and we all drink in equal amounts. As I have said before on numerous occaisions the only discenrible difference between dwarf genders is that the females tend to be clean shaven.
/me checks her chin for stubble
For that reason, you will find few or no gender distictions in our speech - Stonebreaker has one word for the Race of dwarfs - 'Dverm' and an individual dwarf is 'Dwert' - male, female or indeterminate.
Other than that, I have no problem being refered to by my name. (I'll even let you call me 'Lady' Arka as a concession to your mannish obsession with titles and gender)
[OOC you might find this illuminating/humorous - not that I do! - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarf#Female_dwarves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarf#Female_dwarves) - on the other hand I do find this amusing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarfs_%28Discworld%29#Feminisation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarfs_%28Discworld%29#Feminisation)]
Arka Garam
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When would you need to use a gender-specific noun?
"Greetings, dwarf."
"Wha' d'ya want, human?"
Female dwarves are still dwarves. Just like woman are still humans.
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This brings another issue... at least for me...
Like said by Arka... " I'll even let you call me 'Lady' Arka as a concession to your mannish obsession with titles and gender "
Is it right to say 'Lady' 'Sir' or 'Lord' ?
Since this is a medieval-like RPG there are manners that we should observe.
Like be polite and use words like Lady, Sir, Lord.
What about the other races (except Kran) that have females... is it good to use those titles?
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Eagel, Keep in mind that even if it looks like medieval setting, it is not the medieval we had 9 centuries ago. For example womans was taking a slightly different role in it^^ (put a proper word instead of "slightly" if you really feel so)
Also, will you call a random citizen on the road "a lord" ? This title is reserved for nobles i think. Although if you got beaten by some rogue this wont be that weird if you say" "please spare my life lord".
Like Arka don't feel well when someone call her "Lady", but won't argue, I feel similiar about someone calling me a "Lord"
I think these words are spoken a bit too freely ;)
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hmmm i usually call people "good sir Klyros" when i dont know their name so id prolly call a dwarf "sir Dwarf or good sir dwarf" same with females "good lady Dwarf"
i know this is a medieval setting but not everything in the medieval life was pre set... sure youd expect a noblewoman to be called lady, but why cant a kind stranger in a far away land call someone they meet sir or lday? to me its jsut a courteous gesture...like saying m'am.
ive never used lord though, to me that jsut has connotations of someone having some kind of power over you...maybe if they are officially recognized mybes, but i usually prefer to use the terms Sir and Lady
i dunnos, in game i just try to be respectful adn treat everyone as an equal. if they prefer not to be called something than they can tell me and i wont call them that.
other than that instead of calling a dwarf a man or a woman you could just say female or male. like saying "yes, i was tlaking to this lovely dwarf the other day" "oh who was it?" "oh i dont recall the name, but it was this sweet female dwarf who wished to not be called lady."
etc etc...
with the whole fenki and menki things, those are part of the dialect i suppose... menki like male-enki instead of just saying an enki. with dwarfs a fdwarf or a mdwarf jsut doesnt roll of the toungue right...i dunnos
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ggmm believe the fenkifad started with the devs ;)
They shortened it to that with the models. Stil it is very PS even if it that start as OOC slang first ;)
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ggmm believe the fenkifad started with the devs ;)
They shortened it to that with the models. Stil it is very PS even if it that start as OOC slang first ;)
I hate it, actually. It's an obvious tech-style abbreviation for one thing, and it IMO is lacking respect. I'll never call anyone M/F-enki IC-ly. Not even "Enki". It's Enkidukai.
Regarding the gender specifics, I think one should simply use "woman" and "man", since it can, as has been said, be assumed that the terms have gotten to refer to members of all races. I think that those who are offended by being called "man" are simply looking for something to complain about, or they haven't realised that "man" can mean either "guy" or "human", and that the context usually makes things pretty clear. Furthermore, I consider it rude to call someone by their race ("Hey, dwarf!"). If an additional qualifier is used ("good dwarf") it can be OK, but might easily sound condescending.
For Kran I haven't found a suitable word, though, since "thing" sounds stupid, even though technically correct. Possibly in this particular case the term of the species may have become term for the individuals as well (similar to "man" and "human" in RL english).
If talking in third person, and the race matters, then I think using "(fe)male <race>" or "<race[suffix]> (wo)man" is most suitable.
Also, I consider "sir" and "lady" as something you'd call those who you respect or who you have to pretend to respect (like superiors). It's IMO not necessarily related to nobility (or rather, officials, as nobles don't seem to actually exist, given the settings' take on government), and more or less something that one with decent manners would call most people.
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i dunnos if calling someone a fenki or menki is lacking in respect, its what they are
i dunnos about the whole woman and man things, simply because "man" denotes a hu-man
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I think you can safely refer to Kran as "buddy" due to their method of reproduction although some might get offended. I refer to male and female non-Kran as soft-skins or some such nonsense but maybe I am just being shelfish.
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I think you can safely refer to Kran as "buddy" due to their method of reproduction although some might get offended.
Lol, IMO that is excellent. well thought ;)
Anyone can call Idoru 'Master' if they want, I wont be offended :P
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i dunnos if calling someone a fenki or menki is lacking in respect, its what they are
Just get some proof that it is part of ekidukai language and it will be ok. Otherwise, what Seytra said is correct.
Oh, and Nikodemus thinks so too it's not showing respect, so don't be suprised if he wlil be unfriendly after hearing it.
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After thinking about it, Bud might be better than Buddy for a Kran you don't know well.
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I find it fun to think up the most impolite nouns for each race. (Since my characters tend to be lacking in social finesse, so to speak :P)
Rayjak tends to call Enkidukai 'kitties' or 'catmen', Krans 'statues' or 'golems', Klyros' 'lizards' or 'blue-bloods', etc.
Surprisingly few people take offence...
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I like to refer to enkis as funky regardless of gender. Have not done it much lately though.
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emeraldfool, if only you were acting ICly...
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i dunnos if calling someone a fenki or menki is lacking in respect, its what they are
Being something doesn't mean that being called it is not rude. Imagine being called "mammal" IRL. Also, going by this terminology, we'd come to use "Mderm", "Fstoneb" and such.
i dunnos about the whole woman and man things, simply because "man" denotes a hu-man
I have come to believe that in Yliakums common tongue, the word "man" would almost certainly not refer to humans, but exclusively to male members of any race, and that "human" is reserved to mean "member of human race". After all, unlike IRL, in Yliakum, interchanging "man" for "human" would cause much confusion so this mixup would get abandoned pretty quickly. In fact, it's happening right now, and this is with us not even actually living in Yliakum, and after only very few years!
I'm not happy with "Bud(dy)" for Kran, though. It has, at least for me, a connotation of either kinship or disrespect.
@Emeraldfool: "blue-bloods"? I'd be pretty surprised if any race's (except Kran) blood were not red. Even if, I don't know of any RL instances of blue blood or bloodlike substance.
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Arent we all the elite ?
dose it not say that any who emerge from the death realm are heros or master somethings ?
So either they change the settings, or everyone get used to being called a lord or a lady, master or sir, or whatever respectfull term is appropriate. Once some one gets to know you, then they will address you as you like.
I would much preffer respectfull terms instead of what is used on the streets today.
PS: how about 'chip' for a Kran :D
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Personally i think Sir or Lady is the correct terms..its what i use to refer to male or female of all races.
Its not exactly a superior term just a polite term IMO.
Some one say Hi dwarf to me then i'd reply simply Hi [insert race here] i wouldn't be offended but wouldn't reply in a polite way either :D
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This brings another issue... at least for me...
Like said by Arka... " I'll even let you call me 'Lady' Arka as a concession to your mannish obsession with titles and gender "
Is it right to say 'Lady' 'Sir' or 'Lord' ?
Since this is a medieval-like RPG there are manners that we should observe.
Like be polite and use words like Lady, Sir, Lord.
What about the other races (except Kran) that have females... is it good to use those titles?
Sir, Lady, and Lord are all titles... thats like walking up to someone on the street and calling them mayor...
Sir = Knight
Lady = female Lord
Lord = leader of an estate under decree of a king or clergy
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There are no humans in the game unless somehow one of the portals came from Earth. There are races that are particularly humanish but I would suggest it is wrong to call them specifically human. I also think human could refer to any sentient species in the game. Fuzzy Sapiens anyone?
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Actually, humans are called humans in PS. The races page refers to them as "humans", more than once. So FAICT, they are called humans, even IC-ly.
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Indeed that appears to be correct, and there are elves and dwarves, called as such. I don't often glance at the settings page. It seems odd to me that there are such things and yet goblins, dragons and other earthly creations are explicitly refuted. It seems contradictory but not worth making a big deal about. I am certain there must be an explanation somewhere on these forums if I cared enough to look for it.
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Well, my expanation is that it's there in order to not force people to RP something they don't want to / aren't used to relate to. Humans, dwarves and elves are traditional fantasy, and as such are generally known. IOW, without them, PS would lose play value. OTOH, things like dragons are in no way a requirement, and "Gobble" does not equal "Goblin". Regardless, they represent concepts that are not really well defined anyway, though the name creates certain expectations and associations, which are neither required nor necessarily beneficial to PS. That's why they are explicitely avoided, while the general, broad concepts are not. Pterosaurs, for example, certainly match some definitions of "dragons". Yet, not naming them "dragons" frees everyone from the urge to save princesses or little villages from them all the time. It's also cheaper for the owners of a pterosaur, since they don't need to continually re-purchase them and maintain a pile of valuables for them to rest on.
Something else came to my mind WRT the original tpoic: the terms "male" and "female" are also a good thing to use, in conjunction with <race> or standalone. Especially Enkidukai would likely use these terms instead of woman and man, given that several Enkidukai are RP'd with, partially pronounced, similarity to non-sentient felines, usually cats.
I'd be careful when calling an Enkidukai "cat", because it is not yet known if cats exist in Yliakum. If they do, though, then Enkidukai will probably be similarly offended as humans would be when called "monkey". It is, however, possibly that the offending meaning is weaker than IRL, and it usually is RP'd weaker (i.e., normally humorous and only offensive in an already negative context).
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Well thank you for the explaination. This is one of the topics that seems to come up quite often and indeed has been explained elsewhere. I can't link it without searching. I'm sorry I mentioned it as I should have searched in the first place.
Back on topic, more or less, I do not think Lords and Ladies are appropriate titles for a democratic society, deriving from a feudal source as they do, so I won't use them and indeed sometimes go out of my way to get them explained to me in character. Some people with long-standing characters have such backgrounds in their descriptions and back-story so while I don't approve it is not up to me to tell people what they can or can't do and I would only make something of it in a spirit of mischief.
There we go, we can refer to males and females as chief and mischief :innocent:
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I am a little surprised that this hasn't been suggested yet but, I always found the term "dwarfess" a convenient designation for a female dwarf.
Also, just my two tria but, I feel that the whole "Lady" and "Lord" designations are used a bit too freely, particularly considering that there are actually people who RP as having royal backgrounds. IC it makes it somewhat confusing... Though I appreciate that in many cases it makes sense IC to use a term of respect when addressing someone, perhaps a different term would serve the purpose better.
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I am a little surprised that this hasn't been suggested yet but, I always found the term "dwarfess" a convenient designation for a female dwarf.
True, I've heard that used once or twice, but I'm really indifferent to it. Maybe because it sounds a tad like "princess" to me.
Also, just my two tria but, I feel that the whole "Lady" and "Lord" designations are used a bit too freely, particularly considering that there are actually people who RP as having royal backgrounds. IC it makes it somewhat confusing...
I think these aren't actually royality as in the RL sense. The settings has nothing like kings and such, anyway. Thus, I think they're referring to Vigesimi (or Octarchs), not kings, and therefore the titles for such nobility are more or less meaningless, and thus can be used more freely (just as "sir" IRL doesn't require a knight to be used). It may be desirable to not use the terms at all, though, if better terms exist.
Though I appreciate that in many cases it makes sense IC to use a term of respect when addressing someone, perhaps a different term would serve the purpose better.
I think the most common terms used are "sir" and "lady". The term "lady" feels OK, but it does have some royality-related meanings. However, "lady" can also mean the one who's in charge of the family (any family, not just royal ones), as well as the female version of "gentleman". In light of lack of nobility, I think "lady" is used exclusively in the latter two forms ingame (just as "sir" is used in it's meaning of respectful title).
However, maybe "madam" would be better suited, though not that flowing.
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Cue Jerry Lewis, "Hey Laadieee"