PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Coneitic on December 27, 2006, 01:37:29 am
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What about an equal attack for each magic. like a projectile, same speed, same strength in all ways of magic. that way in a fight, people can form more to their charactor, say, if someone fights and their charactor is a strong willed demorian, they would use blue way or brown way and be skilled in it, but they cant really use the magic in a fight because crystal way is basically the most practical and useful magic in a fight. so its limited. i'd like to have a magic fight but i practice dark way, and that is extremely difficult to pull of in a duel, even if you do cast it its pretty much useless, someone could run around and shoot an energy arrow and i'd be done. i dont mean it only to my benifit either thats just an example.... i believe it would better the rp in defining a charactor.
[sorry if its not written well, im a little "off", and sorry if this is in another thread..... 124 pages.]
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Isn't it extremely boring to have no specialization for the magic ways? If you want to fight, choose a way that has the most amount of combat spells. If you're into healing, choose another. The magic system still needs tweaking - there are more spells in the works and ideas on how to make them powerful enough to really matter in a fight. But I don't really like the idea you've proposed because it means that every magic way will immediately scream combat, and not all the ways are combat ways.
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good point. i try to work my magic into my rp like
/my fur starts to emit dense black smoke
thats all good, its just when it does come to dueling, i'd like to at least use that scary tactic against them =)
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I would think that unless some way was particularly meant for pacifists that all ways would have the means to provide protection for the specialist. Those healing spells could theoretically be reversed to cause damage instead. If a way is going to have no damaging spells it should at least provide damage immunity spells so the practitioner is not just a target for the opponents. If I was going to command a combined arms war (infantry corps and MU corps) I would definitely target the opposing forces healers to reduce the time required for victory as no grievously injured warriors would be returning to prolong the fight.
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im just saying... its inevitable to duel, so why not duel with what your charactor is. i hate dueling, being that i have dial up internet its impossible for me to really know where anyone is so i try to differ from dueling, but pretty much in this game no matter what evil rp you do it all comes down to straight dueling. as datruth says to me: thats the way it is, im sorry
and he's right. so all im asking is that when we have to duel, to keep the rp alive, and not be called a coward like i was many times for trying to rp and not duel... another obstacle i had to deal with, is to have a magic attack that is plausable in duel scenarios. especially since i try to train with how my charactor is... i end up with maxed darkway and 2 crystal and find it was pointless so far to train it....
grr im just ranting now im sorry...
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I agree with Karyuu, different ways should have different specialties. I for one want to see more spells like telekinesis, levitation, invisibility, etc. that will be useful outside of combats situations. Know they're probably coming and going to be high level spells, just saying. More spells will come in time.
As for people calling you a coward for not dueling and wanting to RP fight ... don't RP with them, they suck at it! :P I do share your disgust for dueling in RP.
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Isn't it extremely boring to have no specialization for the magic ways? If you want to fight, choose a way that has the most amount of combat spells. If you're into healing, choose another. The magic system still needs tweaking - there are more spells in the works and ideas on how to make them powerful enough to really matter in a fight. But I don't really like the idea you've proposed because it means that every magic way will immediately scream combat, and not all the ways are combat ways.
He's not saying 'no specialisation', he's saying 'give every way on or two attacking glyphs/spells'. The Dark Way can still be specialised in weakening and decay magic, even though there's one or two directly offensive spells (like a 'Shadow Strike' or 'Orb of Darkness' that rivals the Missile spell).
I was surprised it isn't like that to begin with.
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It's very likely that first realms in all magic ways will have one or two similar spells. Nothing exactly the same and nothing that will give you the same attack power, but probably enough for new practitioners to do a decent amount of damage, one way or another. Coneitic did say "equal attack for each magic," and that I don't see happening.
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equal as in, equal chance to use the magic in a battle. it would be nice in battle that you could use a magic other than crystal that will do something.... at least productful.
but zan makes a good point. say crystal way has a great attack in battle, so dark way might be a nonbattle strength. like.... i dunno, i cant think of one, maybe thats why im not a dev.
anyways all im asking is maybe for the next update.... they could make all magic practical in the game, because no matter how you look at it, all other ways are useless, in dueling or out of dueling. and magic is right up there with weapon importance......
except redway can use meteor which is cool, but you have to cheat to use it... and im sure noone cheats in this game.
also, didnt think people would really disagree with asking for other magic to be useful, other than crystal
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What I find extremely boring is having to practice a way other than my specialty way just to be able to do decent combat. Dueling or mobs, doesn't matter. I was extremely disappointed that the very first and basic spell in Dark Way is not even a ranged spell, and you are forced to be a melee distance away from your target, just to pull it off. You'd think that Dark Way specialists would be some of the most dangerous in combat, inflicting a maximum amount of suffering to their enemies. Not to mention that magic, especially offensive magic, is almost always ranged (note: I said almost), so a starting spell being ranged would be a good idea.
All they have to do for starters is make "Weakness" a ranged spell. Dark Way would also make sense to include various life/HP draining spells, perhaps Fear/Terror, magic and stamina stat reducers, and various other offensive debuffs. Some good "Area of Effect" spells too.
Just IMO. :)
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Just food for thought: Dark way is about deception. Get up close and friendly, then strike.
Also, maybe dark does have the deadly stuff, but it's not going to be easy to get. If you want the super killer dark move, you need to go through a huge amount of hard work. The beginning stuff might be worthless, and have strong advanced stuff after much work. Then another magic way could be useful at first but not have much advanced stuff. That way you have to consider before choosing. Besides, not everything is going to start off with a ranged offensive move. It could be the second or third spell.
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i believe the most destructive and deadly way is red way. I see no reason why dark way should be the same. For me, you need to be start to use dark way, because it is about dirty tricks and inflicting suffering for a longer while. You don't just approach a guy, cast die and the target dies. I see this as possible, but through longer preparations.
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i believe the most destructive and deadly way is red way. I see no reason why dark way should be the same. For me, you need to be start to use dark way, because it is about dirty tricks and inflicting suffering for a longer while. You don't just approach a guy, cast die and the target dies. I see this as possible, but through longer preparations.
omg!
how did you get that read from my post?
anyways i dont want an equal damage attack, i dont want an equal magic, im saying it would be nice.... that all magic ways have some kind of practical use. i suggested a common attack, like a missile attack. thats fine if that doesnt work, but at least make another way as practical as crystal way, crystal is the only practical way to learn, which brings me to my arguement about this world being a good sided world, noone wants evil. anyways
if darkenss doesnt have a missile attack, and is centered around beigna close up attack... then why not have it do damage... i mean, you have to be real good to cast a dark spell in a duel... so if you do, shouldnt it do something? or even if not in a duel..... maybe somethign that is usefull.
maybe that would clarify things
i would like to see a useful spell in all ways.
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What does crystal have to do with good and dark have to do with evil?
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What does crystal have to do with good and dark have to do with evil?
its assumed :) crystal clear no inpuritys, dark.. well.. evil meh.. dont it say something in the spell way des? umm..
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Well its a wrong assumption. They are not 'good or evil.' They are ways of magic. Even if they were evil then what would red way be?
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Well its a wrong assumption. They are not 'good or evil.' They are ways of magic. Even if they were evil then what would red way be?
They may not be strictly good or evil, but I think there are some morals attached to them.
Nerve gas isn't evil - it's just gas, but most people would be morally opposed to using it on your enemies (not a pretty sight). I think it's the same with the Dark Way...
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But if you used nerve gas in self defence to fend of someone that was intent on taking your life(If that were somehow possible.)? There is no moral attached to any weapon.
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But if you used nerve gas in self defence to fend of someone that was intent on taking your life(If that were somehow possible.)? There is no moral attached to any weapon.
then if i had a canister of nerve gas and a gun.. and the police raid my home.. i should use the nerve gas yes? umm.. intresting post.. but holds no water..
anyway.. each way has some assumtions.. since cystal heals its assumed to be good.. and dark way is spose to be tourture and things like that.. which is assumed to be evil.. red way would also be evil :) just becuase
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Bartholin, Azure Sun may as well kill you.
Ways of magic are only tools. But people who want to see some things as good and some as evil, won't change their mind anyway, so i don't see sense arguing. They will see or not.
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But if you used nerve gas in self defence to fend of someone that was intent on taking your life(If that were somehow possible.)? There is no moral attached to any weapon.
And watch them die horribly before you? Even if someone was trying to take my life, there's no denying that torturing them to death is somewhat evil, even if the substance itself isn't evil by nature.
Initial symptoms following exposure to sarin (and other nerve agents) are a runny nose, tightness in the chest and constriction of the pupils. Soon after, the victim will then have difficulty breathing, and will experience nausea and drooling. As the victim continues to lose control of his or her bodily functions, he or she will involuntarily salivate, lachrymate, urinate, defecate and vomit ("SLUD" syndrome). This phase is followed by twitching and jerking, and ultimately the victim will become comatose and suffocate as a consequence of convulsive spasms.
The effects of nerve agents are very long lasting and cumulative (increased successive exposures), and survivors of nerve agent poisoning almost invariably suffer chronic neurological damage.
Like I said - not a pretty sight. I imagine the effect would be somewhat similar to the weakness spell... or at least in the same vein as the Dark Way.
That doesn't mean a good character can't use the dark way, it just means that if they're willing to stand and watch while their enemy shites their guts out and then suffocates, they can't be that good.
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But if you used nerve gas in self defence to fend of someone that was intent on taking your life(If that were somehow possible.)? There is no moral attached to any weapon.
then if i had a canister of nerve gas and a gun.. and the police raid my home.. i should use the nerve gas yes? umm.. intresting post.. but holds no water..
anyway.. each way has some assumtions.. since cystal heals its assumed to be good.. and dark way is spose to be tourture and things like that.. which is assumed to be evil.. red way would also be evil :) just becuase
Eh, I'd say red way is more chaotic and unpredictable then evil... Like a fire, which can either aid or hurt.
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If I say "Dark _____", other then skinned, most people will assume it to be evil. In traditional fantasy, dark blades are usually evil and such. The dark way is obviously meant to be more evil leaning with the power to corrupt, weaken, steal life, etc. This doesn't mean that it can't be used with good intent, it's just that the spells themselves are probably more leaning towards what's traditionally associated with Necromancers/Dark Mages and the like in rpgs, which are often evil.
And Healers are usually thought of as good... Clerics, healers in most rpgs, get their power from good gods and have spells against undead. Of course, if they're using their healing power in bad ways, then they arn't necessarily good...
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While we're on the subject of glyphs and wishes:
What I'd personally like to see is a number of spells that do base things and then add predictable effects: for instance, the base glyph of arrow, an effect glyph of flame=flaming arrow. They'd probably be in the way of the effect glyphs, but require some knowledge of the other ways to learn (e.g. 1-2 CW, 3-5 RW for that). And Flame would add flaming/flame/fire to the base glyph, for instance if there was a sword glyph that conjured up a sword to attack your enemy, add flame and it'd be a flaming sword--it would have the predictable effect of adding fire to the original thing... Summon glyph + fire? Fire elemental or the like. You get the idea. Or something like that: This would add an element of predictability to glyph combinations that would make sense while still offering new things: and it would give every way a HUGE base of spells. (I'm not saying that every glyph should have the ability to be both a base glyph and an effect glyph, or even that some glyphs should have either possibility--But the basic glyphs other then arrow should have that possibility). This would add a uniqueness to each way while adding a predictability that'll allow people to create spells based on what they want, if they know that something is a base glyph and they know that something else is an effect glyph.
Only issue with this is that it might add a sort of "sameness" to the various ways that the devs might dislike, understandably as well. I won't argue for or against it, it's just something I'd personally like to see, not something that's needed.
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Back on the original subject: I think Coneitic is right about the current abilities of the various ways--CW is the only truely useful one in a fight, as you can get off an arrow and then start fighting, which can make that 5% difference between living and dying in a duel--as I know from a bit of dueling that I've done for practice with friends, and agree that they all need a bit more umph to make wizards more then just a sideshow or a support type. Perhaps a more powerful version of energy available without cheating? Healing a mere 10% at most seems kind of weak, although I am only 5 CW right now--meaning that it probably gets more powerful before CW maxes.
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And another tidbit, this time about the dark way:
Also, something that I think would fit the dark way is having a number of ways to use other way's glyphs; Since the dark way is the most inventive in good and bad ways, I think this would characterize it quite well.
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I like that. With a high enough level, or maybe a certain glyph, you can "mis-use" a healing glyph to damage somebody, or shoot off a poisoned arrow that would do the normal damage and hit them with weakness. Stuff like that. Or it could take the flame spell and crank up the power, but also hurt you somewhat. Same with the various armor spells.
On the "features" page, it says that the final version will have hundreds of spells, so I imagine they plan to do a bunch of stuff like that anyway. I can't wait. :sorcerer:
( too bad I'll probably lose my vision before that point ;D )