PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Tolol on January 22, 2007, 10:59:33 am
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Hi @ll,
When I came to Yliakum a few weeks ago, my plan was to become a musician and maybe I am nearer to this aim now,
because finally I had the luck to find a merchant to sell me an musical instrument.
But it is not only the disappointment of not beeing able to play or to use it but much more somekind of "RP-Ghost" comes over me (is that normal after such a short time in my first RP Game?) and this RP-Ghost says:
"Well ... so you got a "Pan-Flute" in Yliakum ... what or who is Pan ?"
"Has it to do with the pan we fry our eggs in ?" [do we have eggs?]
"What are eggs ?"
See what I (the RP-Ghost) mean(s) ??
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Well, as far as I know Pan is:
Pan (Greek Πάν, genitive Πανός) is the Greek god who watches over shepherds and their flocks. He has the hindquarters, legs, and horns of a goat, in the same manner as a satyr or pane.
Awaiting your comments ... (especially by those Hardcore RPers)
Thank you
Tolol
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_pipes
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_pipes
The pan flute is named for its association with the rustic Greek god Pan. <- taken from the wiki-article you referred to.
Or did you want to indicate that the god Pan is known in Yliakum ?
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I think Tolol was asking a setting related question rather than a simple "what are pan-pipes?"
Ulitmately the answer will come from the Settings team I suppose, but could Pan be one of the older gods mentioned? or maybe a simple rename to Talad-pipes, Laanx-pipes or even Vodul-pipes
edit: opps too slow
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or perhaps something simple like wood pipes?
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well, thank you Lanser
I once again wasn't able to make the intention of my post clear ...
I really should improve my english.
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Nah, English us fine, I just haven't slept in a while and can't read too good :P
The Pan-flute is a pan flute, the settings = stupid, we have Claymores which means big sword in a language that doesn't exist in Yliakum, and we have flutes that are named after a god that doesn't exist in Yliakum. It's a Pan-Flute, it has that name because Talad said so... sry, reaaly tired and been trying to outdrink my cousin, so this might not make a lot of sense :P
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You could consider the pan to mean
1: make a sweeping movement; "The camera panned across the room"
as this is what your head does to play the highest and lowest notes consecutively or a glissando as opposed to a regular flute where your head remains in one position.
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Let's face it. The English language has eponyms in it. Sometimes those eponyms are going to become inseparable from that which they are describing, like the pan flute. Are you saying that if the time comes PS gets a book of maps, we can't call it an atlas because it was named after the mythical figure Atlas? Or if a character has facial hair down the sides of his cheeks we can't call them sideburns because that implies General Burnside existed?
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You could consider the pan to mean 1: make a sweeping movement; "The camera panned across the room"
as this is what your head does to play the highest and lowest notes consecutively or a glissando as opposed to a regular flute where your head remains in one position.
Don't take this the wrong way, but that sucks :P
For one, cameras don't exist in Yliakum, so it'd be OOC to make that be the reference. Also, 'panning' refers solely to cameras... it just doesn't sound right to say 'I panned my head around as I played the pan-pipe'...
Let's face it. The English language has eponyms in it. Sometimes those eponyms are going to become inseparable from that which they are describing, like the pan flute. Are you saying that if the time comes PS gets a book of maps, we can't call it an atlas because it was named after the mythical figure Atlas? Or if a character has facial hair down the sides of his cheeks we can't call them sideburns because that implies General Burnside existed?
That's the big question. Every word has an origin... if we start removing words like that, you'd have to first invent a completely different language and force everybody to speak it. I don't understand exactly how the devs choose what names to use, but it strikes me as kinda odd that things like these pass through, and others don't.
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I think that as long as a word is a)English (not Tai-Chi) and b)Not too obviously OOC (like "computer/spaghetti/") it can be used.
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b)Not too obviously OOC (like "computer/spaghetti/") it can be used.
Oh, but pie is allowed? Or roasted potatoes?
This topic needs a definitive solution.
First hell, now "pan"... ::|
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I chose spaghetti because it's clearly Italian.
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Please don't make another thread about this :(
/me weeps for humanity
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Did you guys ever think that sometimes, just sometimes, nitpicking is taking a step backwards? :}
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/me cheers for the alike-thinking mind!
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I think that as long as a word is a)English (not Tai-Chi) and b)Not too obviously OOC (like "computer/spaghetti/") it can be used.
That's what I was getting at, Thom.
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Did you guys ever think that sometimes, just sometimes, nitpicking is taking a step backwards? :}
I like that word. 'Nitpicking'...
Sounds funny.
Anyway, I think the important thing to remember is to have fun. If the word 'Pan Pipe' really pisses ya off so much, just call it whatever you want and pretend whenever someone else says the word, that it's a slip o' the tongue (y'know, in-character).
Besides, how much does the word 'pan-pipe' come up?
That said, seems a bit hypocritical to talk about 'nitpicking' (yay, found a reason to use it in a sentence!) but not allow someone to say 'Tai-Chi' or 'hell'...
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:oops:
well, I read many of those threads including the "hell-thread" and just thought it would be okay to ask for the pan-flute ... looks like I kicked someones a** with that ... sorry
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Wait, someone's ass got kicked...?
Damnit, why do I always miss these things....
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So call it a shepherd's flute. Pan was associated with shepherds back in the day.
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That said, seems a bit hypocritical to talk about 'nitpicking' (yay, found a reason to use it in a sentence!) but not allow someone to say 'Tai-Chi' or 'hell'...
Do you genuinly not see the difference?
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So call it a shepherd's flute. Pan was associated with shepherds back in the day.
Well, now you're assuming there are sheep in the game. :D
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A shepard doesn't nessisarily have to do with sheep. I'm sure that there is an animal in the game that'll need to be herded and we're not going to come up with an all together new name for the herders of said animals just because the word shepard comes from sheep. It, like alot of words we use in day to day life, comes from one thing but does not have to mean that in every instance.
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and we're not going to come up with an all together new name for the herders of said animals just because the word shepard comes from sheep.
Actually, that word would be "herder." You said the word yourself. Shepherd does indeed mean sheep, just as there are such things as goatherds, camelherds, etc.
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and we're not going to come up with an all together new name for the herders of said animals just because the word shepard comes from sheep.
Actually, that word would be "herder." You said the word yourself. Shepherd does indeed mean sheep, just as there are such things as goatherds, camelherds, etc.
This argument is getting so old...
Every single word in that sentence was invented by someone for some reason. I don't get why just because some word's origins are better known to the small group of people in charge, that should warrant their removal...
That said, seems a bit hypocritical to talk about 'nitpicking' (yay, found a reason to use it in a sentence!) but not allow someone to say 'Tai-Chi' or 'hell'...
Do you genuinly not see the difference?
No, no I don't :P
What's the difference between Pan, the mythical Greek god, and Hell, the mythical Norse/Pseudo-Christian underworld?
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What's the difference between Pan, the mythical Greek god, and Hell, the mythical Norse/Pseudo-Christian underworld?
In this case the difference would be that the god Hell is much less known than Pan. But then again that is completely not the point. The point is, what is the difference between a pan flute and a hell flute. When saying something is a pan flute, the vast majority of people would imagine a flute made of tubes, i.e., the emphasis would be on flute. When speaking of a flute of hell, the vast majority of people would imagine a flute spewing flames, or being played by a devil. Which of those two images fits the setting of PS best?
Similarly, most people would think a claymore is a big sword being used in medieval (western) times. A Tai Chi sword brings up images of an oriental setting, or people doing slow movements in the park.
Of course there is a minority who thinks hell is a place known for it's soothing flute sounds, and that people meditating to this sound make very cool swords. But I would be surprised if even they would think a Tai Chi sword from Hell would fit PS as much as a pan flute.
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What's the difference between Pan, the mythical Greek god, and Hell, the mythical Norse/Pseudo-Christian underworld?
Thatrs a good one,
Especially as i'm under impression that Pan is going to be allowed and Hell not.
Lanarel. byt if you say: 'what the hell' everyone will be under imprsion that you are very suprised, not that there are somewhere around some hell flames. And if you say "What the Pan" you just sound weird.
You are right though, the context is important, but you are wrong that the words are at fault. there are many words, which you can use in ooc way, but it is the context, which decide.
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as has become usual in this topic (and I say topic because it is just one topic), you have to draw the line somewhere, when bugger is bad, bastard (meaning an illegitimate child) is presumably bad, hell is bad, and pan is not???? is a merchant running a monopoly bad? as someone said, is an atlas not bad, a paladin isnt bad, blacksmith, thats a RW thing, why isnt that bad?
What is the basis for somethings being wrong and some not?
People need to know.
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lets all just remove the chat and all text from the game.
Similarly, most people would think a claymore is a big sword being used in medieval (western) times.
So because most people are ignorant, it's ok? ::|
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Did you guys ever think that sometimes, just sometimes, nitpicking is taking a step backwards? :}
Maybe if some people hadn't been so picky about what names people can call their characters, the players wouldn't be used to nitpicking.
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Tolol is lost in thought while mining for iron ore at the Ojaveda Mine.
Suddenly ... like lightning ... he stands still in attention, saucer eyed and his rock pick falls down on the ground.
"I remember it" he shouts " I remember it !"
The last few days have been quite stressful for him, because he just couldn't forget the discussion about his Pan-Flute he had with some other Yliakian Citizen.
With every dig of his pick he tried to remember this great sentence of a well known Yliakian Poet who could just with this one sentence bring all the irritation and senselessness to one, exact point which says all and nothing and would be the right words to end this discussion forever.
And now ... in a deep, hidden niche of his mind he recalled where he has read this worldshaking sentence of wisdom.
"I have to go to Hydlaa and find the book 'Pieces of Wisdom around Yliakum'" he mumbled and packed the pick away to prepare for the Journey to Hydlaa.
After a last Mug of Ale at Brado's he waved goodbye to Ojaveda and walked through the gates.
All his way to Hydlaa he was elated of having solved the problem that had suffered his mind the last days and he deeply hoped, that he could find this important book at the Hydlaa Library.
The book which was known as a collection of wise words and poetry of many wise and honourable people of Yliakum.
When reaching Hydlaa-Gate, he dusted off his clothes and hurried straight to the Library to meet Jayose and asked him for the book.
"Well," Jayose answered "this book hasn't been read for a very long time, so why do you need it that urgent?" Tolol answered "It keeps the solution for a many times discussed Problem around Yliakum and I will carry this solution out to the known world!"
"Well" Jayose nodded "so I will get it for you ..."
Jayose disappeared and the sound of searching and cursing filled the library.
"Here it is" Jayose shouted and came back to Tolol. He handed him an golden book which had the signs of many times beeing read on it and also much dust which showed that it hasn't been read for a while.
Tolol sat down and started searching what he thought it would be in this book.
As it got darker outside and Tolol had nearly reached the end of the book a shout of happiness filled the library ... "Here it is!" Tolol shouted ... and he took out a piece of Paper to write it down.
"Thank you" Tolol said when he handed the book back to Jayose "this Book should be read by more people, I suggest you don't put it away that far away as it was, so people get more attentive to it."
Jayose nodded and laid the book right in front of him on the Table "This should be a good place ...", Tolol nodded.
"Now comes the most important moment" Tolol mumbled and made his way to the Plaza.
He sat down on the stairs and waited for the darkness to come to fulfill his task of bringing light into the unsolved question of the last days.
"The moment has come" he mumbled and he took out a piece of coal he had stored just for this moment ... and right in front of Harnquist's smithy-shop he wrote, in 5 feet high letters, the words he had taken from this well known Yliakian Poet, on the Ground of the Plaza.
The morning came ... and people looked down from the smithy-shop reading the words, black letters of coal, that were shown on the ground of the Plaza:
It is okay to discuss pan flutes, but not pan flutes from Hell, played by Tai-chi staff weilding Dwarves.
Tolol stood in the middle of the crowd, people were shaking heads, not understanding the deeper sense of this words.
"Those who should, will know it" Tolol mumbled and deleted all questions and answers regarding the Pan-Flute from his mind.
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[sorry, couldn't resist]
Tolol
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Similarly, most people would think a claymore is a big sword being used in medieval (western) times.
No, I'd say most people would think of this:
(http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/PF_NEW%5C08_29_2005/PF_917128~Braveheart-Orange-Posters.jpg)
(See the sword in his hand? The Claymore is William Wallace's trademark weapon)
The point is, if we were RPing properly the word 'hell' and the word 'Pan' and the word 'claymore' would all be equally non-sensical. Hell is an Earth-specific underworld, Pan is an earth-specific god and claymore is an earth-specific sword. How the words impact the player shouldn't come into it at all...
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Emeraldfool, just because your first thought is about Mel Gibson screaming "Freeeeeeeedom!" doesn't mean that's what most people think. :P
And I wonder what is so entertaining to keep a discussion going that has been going on for such a long time .. I thought it was clear to everyone now that this argument has no perfect answer. Personally I'll just let the Settings Devs determine what they do and do not want in their game.
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/me laughs out loud.
if Pan knew this was gonna happen he probably named it Wood flute.
Pink Ribbon for most useless thread the past 2 years! \\o//
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I think of a claymore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claymore_mine) as something that blows up taking my friends with me, perhaps when I get enough expertise in energy spells, metalurgy and smithing I will design some little toy to match. When you think of it pan-flutes are closed tubes which could be considered extremely deep narrow pans like what you use for cooking.
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Ahh... Music to my mouth. Now, what would you cook with a pan-flute? Hmmm... Enter Strange Alleck, the infamous Yliakian jester of tunes, composing songs of hunger, feeding the poor through the ears with medieval polka.
Frankly, I think people get a bit carried away over language. Obviously they aren't going to make us learn a new one, and they aren't going to allow the Atkins Diet. So they need to take a middle ground. That middle ground is a subjective thing. As this thread indicates, people have different opinions. Obviously, whoever make these decisions has a different opinion of what sticks out and what doesn't. Arguing over opinions really doesn't go anywhere, other than circles, or maybe ovals or egg-shapes. But they wind up no more useful than this:
bool opinion = 1;
while (opinion == 1){
printf("Blah blah blah blah\n");
printf("Yackity yack, don't talk back\n");
printf("Didn't we already discuss this?\n");
}
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I cook pixies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixy_Stix) in mine....