PlaneShift
Fan Area => The Hydlaa Plaza => Topic started by: Goldir on January 23, 2007, 06:34:38 pm
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Hey everyone! It has come time again for me to upgrade my system, and since I am pretty much going to gear it towards two things: The playing of PS, and my C++ programming class. I know it takes a lot of CPU power and such to build and compile PS. What I need to know is this:
What kind of system would you build, using current technology and components, if you wanted to build a power system. I am doing the financing thing with this one and my budget is around 4K. The financing was arranged through Dell, so I will probably have to use them to do it. Think "Ideal system for PS" when you come up with Ideas.
p.s. I posted this in General because it relates to system requirements for PS. Also, useful information may come out of it for things like ideal video card etc...
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A wise man once said "Avoid Dell like the plague" <.<
And PS really doesn't have high requirements, especialy when you are talking about $4k. I spent around 2.5k on my computer a year or so ago, and it runs PS as well as any other machine.
The thing about DELL is that sure, you get the financing, but you better build a damn good computer because upgrading is annoying. Added to which, it's quite hard to sell your old parts when you do update because a lot of the stuff in DELLs work only for DELLs.
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DaveG used to compile and work on PS using a laptop that I believe was a bit below our minimum requirements :P
Get parts from newegg and assemble the machine yourself. You get warranty on each separate component and you know precisely what quality you're getting. If you're desperate for system tech support then I can see how "custom-building" from an established distributor may be a good idea, but they really overcharge.
2GB RAM, a dual-core processor, and a 512MB video card is yummy yummy. Unless you're also adding in a new monitor, it shouldn't bring you over $1,500 - my system cost me no more than 1k.
(This isn't a General Discussion topic, however. You know the minimum requirements for the game and they are extremely easy to attain.)
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True enough. Unfortunately, all of the other High Performance Desktop manufacturers don't provide the financing. I notice that in the last month Dell changed their website options again. Now you can't get the 667 FSB DDR2 unless you get an XPS system, with which you pay a massive premium just for the spiffy XPS logo. I would love to get one of the new quad cores, but in order to do that you have to buy their $4500 system. Also, they removed the option to add the IGEA Grafx Accelerator from all their systems except the XPS. I hate being railroaded. It isn't guaranteed I will go through Dell, but until I can find a better site that doesn't require I go to my bank for a personal loan, they look like the only option to get myself into massive debt and have fun doing it.
I was thinking on a system with overamped specs because, while PS may not have high requirements now, in about 2 years who knows what it might need? Especially with Window$ Vi$ta coming out. That OS will eat half your RAM before you even take it out of the box.
Another issue that worries me is that even though you need the Nvidia Toolkit to compile PS, it seems to have issues when dealing with Nvidia Cards. Mostly with particles (whatever that means, I am ignorant when it comes to video hardware and capabilities) Does ATI have SLI as part of its capabilities? I will ask my Computer Hardware instructor, since I have to go to class in half an hour anyways.
Also, could a moderator please move this post to the Hydlaa Plaza? I have a feeling this sucker is going to go off on a tangent, so it may as well move to the chatter board.
EDIT: Whups! Karyuu beat me to it. Thanks!
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A good case that lets alot of airflow is also important to keep your parts cool and running efficiently and for longer.
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A Dutch tech-website publishes a "Best-Buy-Guide" every two months, I've taken the liberty of translating the January edition for you.
I've also added comments based on my experiences and my system:
Processor: AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ € 121,83 (I compile PS on an "X1" 3200+)
Motherboard: MSI K9N Neo-F € 61,50
Memory: 512MB x 2 (1GB) PC5400 DDR2, CL4 (Corsair) € 100,16 (Use 2 GB when you start to use 3D devving tools, 1 is enough for MSVC and games)
Graphics Card: Asus GeForce 7300 GT Silent € 77,49 (Enough if you focus on playing PS, good for other games too)
Hard Disk: Hitachi Deskstar T7K250, 160GB € 53,53 (I'd prefer a 250+ GB HD, depends on how much you install and download)
DVD-Burner: Samsung SH-S182M 18x € 25,-
Case: Antec NSK4400 € 67,88
Monitor: Acer AL1916WAs € 179,10 (Good, but I personally recommend the Samsung Syncmaster (7/9)30BF series. Karyuu uses it too ;) )
Speakers: Logitech S200 € 15,56
Keyboard: Logitech Cordless Desktop LX300 € 41,42 (Personally I hate cordless because of batteries, I have a basic corded set and a MX510 mouse myself)
Total Price: € 743,47 (All black is usually a bit more expensive, some shops can be more expensive, and you have to account for shipment costs)
My estimate: €800,-
edit:
-You do NOT need Nvidia Toolkit to compile PS.
-Particle issues are mostly fixed with latest driver & decent (new) card. Some Nvidia related issues were also fixed in CS, but aren't in PS yet.
-Ati's "SLI" is called CrossFire.
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If you want a bit of portability too (so a laptop), then you can't beat a Dell XPS M1710. Dell's XPS series is pretty damn good really. I've just bought one for $3200 and it's excellent. If don't, and you've got $4k to spend and want the support then you can get a desktop system like this from dell (I configured it at $4,054):
PROCESSOR Intel® Core™2 Extreme QX6700 (8MB L2 Cache,2.66GHz,1066 FSB)
OPERATING SYSTEM & TV-TUNERS Genuine Windows® XP Media Center 2005 Edition with re-installation CD
UPGRADE TO WINDOWS VISTA Express Upgrade to Windows Vista Home Premium from XP Media Center Edition
MEMORY 2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz - 2 DIMMs
HARD DRIVE 500GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
OPTICAL DRIVE Dual Drives: 16x DVD-ROM Drive + 16x DVD+/-RW w/ dbl layer write capable
MONITOR 20 inch UltraSharp™ 2007WFP Widescreen Digital Flat Panel
VIDEO CARD 768MB nVidia GeForce 8800 GTX
SOUND CARD Sound Blaster® X-Fi™ XtremeMusic (D) Sound Card
SPEAKERS Dell AS501 10W Flat Panel Attached Spkrs for UltraSharp™ Flat Panels
If you don't want the support, then building it yourself might be a better way to go. Dell can sometimes be cheaper than a self-build, because they buy in bulk, but you lack the ability to truly customise what you want.
Edit: You need the nvidia toolkit if you want to have any shaders...
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I wish I was more computer literate... (Well, actually, I wish I had the attention-span to become more computer literate :P)
Whenever I shop for computers, my general train of thought is always "This is a new model, therefore it must be good!" ... It never ends well. To this date I don't think I've had a single program that ran perfectly. Ever. :'(
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Xordan, keep that it a cool room eh :P
Only problem I see is that Media Center is the devil and Vista is annoying :P
Damn nice laptop all the same.
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Vista is an optional upgrade :) I quite like Media Center myself <.< Looks better than XP home, and once you remove all the crap and tweak it a bit then it's great! Dual-boot with Gentoo linux too :P
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Heh, fair enough, it's the crap that bothers me about Media, too much annoyingness :P
Dual boot makes everything good though :D
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You need the nvidia toolkit if you want to have any shaders...
Linux or Windows?
And about Dell XPS: I like to build my own systems to make sure it's all quality stock and not some "Dell-only" hardware. Plus XPS is really expensive.
I'm also still planning to do a casemod some day. Nothing too technical, just some special lighted coolers :)
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True, Thom, but building your own laptop is a bit more annoying than building a desktop. Atleast, in my limited knowledge.
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ooh ooh, I gots a story about dell from my work place:
we had a raid 5 setup. it was bought through dell. all 5 hard drives died within the same day. come to find out, dell made it using all refurbished hard drives, and the controller card was refurbished as well. when they sent us new parts, they were also refurbished parts. we then dropped all ties with dell.
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I hate Dell stuff, too much off their own junk stuck in it.
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If I had the money?
Powermac Pro
Quadcore 3.66 GHZ
500mb hard drive
256MB graphics card
Gig of Ram
Whatever else it was that the main specs are for that computer.
I want one. But I'm hardly going to get one any time soon hahah!
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I've always been a loyal Gateway fan. 'Til they pulled out after 9/11 X-/
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Sweet! This is some good advice. When I was trolling the dell XPS Laptop section I didnt see the quad core processor listed. Maybe I need to check again. I wouldn't mind having portability and power. I did notice that it was almost 3000 dollars US for the upgraded max RAM. I wonder If I can just buy the RAM separate from the manufacturer directly... That is what I did with my wife's compaq that she bought a few years back.
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I don't understand why anyone would spend 4k on a system that they can build themselves for half as much :P Unless you're going with something as seriously awesome as Boxx, which offers workstations for studios. Or if you're going for a laptop, where it's understandable that building "from scratch" is a lot harder. But a desktop PC? Crazy :]
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I love building my own systems, rather than paying some company exorbitant prices to do it for me. Have you ever tried to convince someone who thinks computers are a necessary evil to allow you to buy all the components for a high quality one? However, I bet I could probably do some creative accounting and hide most of the expense from her... We shall see. hehehehe
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True, Thom, but building your own laptop is a bit more annoying than building a desktop. Atleast, in my limited knowledge.
Obviously, I was referring to desktops.
And again, it's fun building your own pc!
Except when you completely destroy your harddisk in the process.
Not that I ever did that >.>
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Personally I wouldn't go for the quad core... you don't need it, plus it's just two glued together dual cores sharing the same bus links (big bottleneck). Save yourself a lot of money and get a high-end dual core (T7600 for laptop, E6700 for desktop) ;)
I don't understand why anyone would spend 4k on a system that they can build themselves for half as much :P
Tech support :) And sometimes it is cheaper to buy from Dell. Depends on what you're buying.
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Something to keep in mind when building your own pc...
In some places (referring to the USA since thats where I am at) if you aren't CompTIA A+ certified and you go to build your own system, and a part breaks in the process, even if it wasn't your fault, the company can choose to not accept the return and say you voided the warrenty as you aren't a certified indivdual.
That happened to me before, had to send them proof of my certification before they would send me my replacement parts. I don't really blame them that much though. When I recieved my 1500+ dollar order, over half the parts were dead on arrival. I guess they were just being cautious.
Never the less, that's the last time I ordered anything from that place.
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CompTIA A+ certified, eh?
That's some hot shiz you got there :P
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Back in the 90's, the CompTIA certs meant something and were internationally recognised for being the best entry level certification award out there in the IT field. Starting a few years back, about the same time they updated thier tests to include Win XP, the test went down hill and everyone and thier dog started to pass the test. Nowadays, the A+ test is kinda treated as a joke, much like the I-Net+ test. Only worth while CompTIA cert worth getting nowadays IMO is the Security+ cert.
I got my A+ cert when the test was actually worth something by the way.
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Everything education-related seems to be getting easier for some reason...
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I am currently working on my A+ Cert right now. I guess they changed the test banks again as of 1 Jan 2007. I know one guy in my A+ Software class hurried to take the test before the end of the year last year and passed. I wonder if I shouldn't say heck with it and take it early as well, because I scored higher than he did on the final exams in every class I took with him. Personally I think I still have much more to learn, but the A+ cert is an extra 3 bucks an hour working pc service tech jobs if I can pull it off.
Thanks for the warning on that one Neko. You wouldn't happen to be able to PM me the name of the company that tried to shaft you would you? I really don't want to get trapped like that.
I think emeraldfool has it right: "Everything education-related seems to be getting easier for some reason..."
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Indeed in my HND Computer Systems Engineering class, the tutors even admitted it. Basically if people failed in the class, the tutors would get told of by the University and were MADE to make the exams, projects easier so people could pass. most people in my class did not deserve to pass, but the tutors had to make things easier just so they would, but even then people struggled.
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Thanks for the warning on that one Neko. You wouldn't happen to be able to PM me the name of the company that tried to shaft you would you? I really don't want to get trapped like that.
It was a wholesale company that TigerDirect.com used/uses. Don't remember the name off the top of my head. It was quite a few years ago, not even sure if they are still around. Back before newegg.com was around, tiger was actually worth something.
My situation went something like, call TD about all the DOA parts, they refer me to the wholesale company as the warrenty is through them, not TD. I call that place, they try to give me the run around, but i eventually get all new parts.
Like I said, last I used them and TD for my computer buying needs.
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True I would never buy a Dell myself for all the above reasons, but then I never buy prebuilts anyway.
However I quite often reccommend dell to pople who are not techies and only want their pc to browse the latest menu online and/or write a letter to cousin Sally.
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erm thats terrible advice :p if they just want the net and to write letters a cheap 2nd hand one will do. I could buy a £50 machine that would do that fine. :)
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Pictured here (http://www.imagemule.com/uploads/picture-2mm3B.jpg), or...
2-3.0GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon Quad core rules
16GB (8 x 2GB) because you can never have enough ram
4-750GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s Lot's of video and sound editing would just require it.
NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500 512MB, Stereo 3D (2 x dual-link DVI) pretty, pretties
2-Apple Cinema HD Display (30" flat panel) to see pretty, pretties twice as well
2-16x SuperDrives for when you just need that other drive you wish you had.
With a finished OSX 10.5 installed.
Of course the cost is a little on the high end, but that's what you get with Mac. You get what you pay for.
:: edit :: Forgot the session would time out, so I fixed the link. Should show a pic now. Although you could also go to Mac.com and look too.
Price before taxes....16,939.00 :D
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Pictured here (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/6494003/wo/ts3YY6zk4FeK2oBnDzA1xbXkQj9/2.?p=0/), or...
2-3.0GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
16GB (8 x 2GB) because you can never have enough ram
4-750GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s Lot's of video and sound editing would just require it.
NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500 512MB, Stereo 3D (2 x dual-link DVI) pretty, pretties
2-Apple Cinema HD Display (30" flat panel) to see pretty, pretties twice as well
2-16x SuperDrives for when you just need that other drive you wish you had.
With the newest OSX installed.
Of course the cost is a little on the high end, but that's what you get with Mac. You get what you pay for.
How much? :P
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Dang. That looks like the kind of system you would put in as a control system on a space shuttle or one of those that physicists use to calculate the motion of the heavenly bodies or some crap. I would say that it looks like the kind that NASA would use, but NASA would pay $34000 for the hardware and it would probably be a 5 year old 500 mhz AMD system purchased through Raytheon or one of those companies via a 30 year service contract. Oh yeah and the OS would most likely be NT, with millions of dollars in non-functioning custom software.
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Nah it's the newest g5 custom set up set up for mac I was playing with. Go here (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore) to check them out. Although, unless it's changed most of NASA comps. are linux or at least based on it if I remember correctly.
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Well do not know how to play chess, so perhaps I could be the "coach" owning a system like this one: :whistling:
(http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/vintage/images/4506VV1001.jpg) (http://www.research.ibm.com/deepblue/)
Easier to drive a nail with a wrecking ball!
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Seriously, I would go definitively for 64 bits processor(3.5 Ghz or more, not sure if AMD or Intel yet),. 2.5 GB (575Mhz frequency if existing) RAM, a GeForce 8800("GeForce 8800 GTX will contain a G80 running at 575MHz and connected over a 384-bit bus to 768MB of GDDR 3 clocked to 900MHz. That's enough for 86GBps of memory bandwidth."), a 1 Terabyte HD with the best speed available, a plasma 50'' flat monitor. Fully updated Debian with the latest versions of KDE and other softwares, and a *cough* Window$ XP(Vista seems to be a even worse resource hog) cause of those :@#\ that refuse to port their programs and games to Linux.
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Oie Vay!
Quadcore??? http://techreport.com/etc/2006q4/clovertown/index.x?pg=1 Why oh why?
A $608.72 USD (including tax) HP Pavilion runs PS and compiles C.
A 8800 GTX Graphic card will do nothing for compiling C and will set you wallet back $600 bucks. Integrated graphics are fast enough for PS.
Finacing??? Its a computer, not a car. Put 50 bucks in a jar every month, then pay cash for it.
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Lord... I hate you so very much :P
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ONe pie e of advice if you get your computer from dell ...
Immediately format and reinstall windows.
They jam them things so full crap software it's ridiculous.