PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Getter on January 31, 2007, 03:55:16 am
-
What with the hype train in full swing and me not noticing any kind of sticky thread someplace obvious, I wondered if it has been decided yet exactly how the Vista elephant in the room will interact with the Planeshift project in the grand scheme of things?
Considering DX10, the "Games For Windows" project they want developers to sign up with to various ends, as well as the time when 64-bit shenanigans ACTUALLY fit in with the flow of things approaching....how does it all shake down thus far?
I also just noticed something to the effect stating that "sound cards" as we've seen them are apparently, ultimately, going to be kinda of a "DOS situation" in lieu of a software centric approach with Vista. I would imagine such would be of significance to game development?
-
My opinion: If Microsoft wishes to make things harder for OpenGL and Open-Source games they will backfire. The main Windows advantage is compatibility with most games, if they decide to take an exclusive approach where you either choose to develop a Windows Vista-only game instead a game compatible with Windows XP and other OSes, it will be a risky approach that can lead one of their main customer-bases, gamers, to become very annoyed with it.
Of course with the amount of corporations they have money in, this is a potential risk. Anyway DX 10 and the "Games For Windows" are probably out of the plans from the Planeshift devs I hope. No need of using commercial Single-OS packages like it for a game that runs over an open-source engine.
-
From my, albeit limited, understanding of things...developing games for Vista doesn't cancel out if being something that'll work on other Windows builds or OS's. At least, until the DX10 behemoth is in full swing...odds are seemingly remote-imaginary that MS will see fit to force DX10 capabilities out for XP seeing as how it is the main carrot to entice the gaming population to upgrade.
I was under the impression that the Games for Windows initiative was primarliy designed at streamlining the mire of system requirements for games to their 1-5 scale should publishers, devs, etc register up with them. Also, I keep wanting to think there was a part about those who do choose to officially go at it get some form of aid in regard to getting the most out of the new OS, DX10, and so forth---with the aim being a higher quality product to sell/promote the Age of Vista.
I haven't come across any Vista v. Open-Source/OpenGL/etc articles or testimonials...hence my curiosity here considering this to be the only "Open" project I keep up with. Clearly, Vista is going to become the new standard unless something bizarre happens if by no other virtue than being the new default for PC's sold via DELL and the like. Same goes for the push to increase the strength of the PC gaming side of things---which is the part that'd perhaps have the largest potential effect on the future of PLaneshift.
Edit: Upon randomly looking through the Gameplay FAQ just now, it seems as of Jan 9th Vista was declared a no-go based on a lack of driver support. Has anything changed since then in terms of thinking necessary drivers are en route at some point or does that present a perpetual "no-go" as far as everything shakes out?
-
Seeing Vista is onl y just out it would probbly be best for the devs to first look how things develop. Knowing windows there is even a chance the system has holes the size of switserland. Hear the design has been done for a large part by dutch people so not to surprised that seems to be the one things people seem to like *smiles*
-
I want PS on my wee Wiii (once I get one.) any potential for console-idating?
-
Well some hacker already found a flaw in Vista regarding the DVD creator . :D
Anyway Gaming under Vista is going to be a nightmare, XP broke alot of compatibility with old games, Vista is even worse and breaks compatibility with newer games.
-
I got my copy of Vista yesterday and I can report that PS works fine with it :)
-
Aaaaaaahahahahahahaha! Vista got hacked already!
-
Vista got hacked already!
\\o// It's not really a surprise, is it?
-
I got my copy of Vista yesterday and I can report that PS works fine with it :)
Thanks for the heads up Xordan! My Operating Systems II instructor just let us have our copies today and I haven't quite gotten around to testing it. I wonder if there is a possibility for a Planeshift - WinVista thread that could be started so that when people are testing PS on Vista they can share thier experiences with it and potential fixes and workarounds. For example, people with odd/uncommon hardware components trying to play get advice from other people with odd components on how to jury rig PS into working. This is gonna be an adventure!
-
Well, any issues in Vista are probably going to be due to graphics driver bugs so there's little need for a Vista thread, maybe a sticky with common issues.... maybe. We'll see how things shape up as more people switch to it.
-
The larger problem for the future(not right now) is the way "Vista" will "support" OpenGL. Specially problematic if CrystalSpace starts the newer resources from OpenGL 2.0 .
http://www.did-you-mean.com/OpenGL_7607.html#Future_in_Microsoft_Windows (http://www.did-you-mean.com/OpenGL_7607.html#Future_in_Microsoft_Windows)
On August 6, 2005, Microsoft's intentions for OpenGL support in Windows Vista were revealed on in an Opengl.org news announcement:
Microsoft's current plan for OpenGL on Windows Vista is to layer OpenGL over Direct3D in order to use OpenGL with a composited desktop to obtain the Aeroglass experience. If an OpenGL ICD is run - the desktop compositor will switch off - significantly degrading the user experience.
In practice this means for OpenGL under Aeroglass:
OpenGL performance will be significantly reduced - perhaps as much as 50%
OpenGL on Windows will be fixed at a vanilla version of OpenGL 1.4
No extensions will be possible to expose future hardware innovations
It would be technically straightforward to provide an OpenGL ICD within the full Aeroglass experience without compromising the stability or the security of the operating system. Layering OpenGL over Direct3D is a policy more than a technical decision.
As a result, the future of Microsoft Windows support of OpenGL as a mainstream library for computer and video games looks precarious.
P.S.: I don't know if M$ stepped back about this, but I fear they will remain such policy, and that is why I posted in a optimistic view:
If Microsoft wishes to make things harder for OpenGL and Open-Source games they will backfire.
-
Seeing Vista is onl y just out it would probbly be best for the devs to first look how things develop. Knowing windows there is even a chance the system has holes the size of switserland.
Holes the size of Switzerland is giving them too much credit... After all, Switzerland isn't that big ;)
---
Oh, and:
As long as there's still Mac OSX and Linux versions, I'm fine.
-
Aaaaahahahahahahaaa
Hacked in three days, reduced OpenGL applications....
yeah.
Bill Gates it the man fo sho! :woot: ;D :whistling:
-
I'm dubious about vista. I mean sure it will play games of today but I'm worried that if I don't upgrade I won't be able to play new games coming out.
And to upgrade I need to buy a new PC - as my graphics card is OLD (And I only have a PCI bus slot)
-Matt
-
I have been using Cb on vista, and have had no problems, apart from it being slower than in XP.
-
I have been using Cb on vista, and have had no problems, apart from it being slower than in XP.
My advice for Windows users: Stay with Windows XP as long as possible, and pressure Mr. Bill to include full support to OpenGL 2.0 in Vista, or you will have two choices: suck it up with an horrible performance when playing any OpenGL or Open-Source Game, or the best one: erase your Windows Vista partition and install a friendly Linux distribution over it(Or perhaps work in dual-boot).
Lets hope that the Microsoft intention of kicking OpenGL away from Windows games to have the full monopoly on such area through DirectX backfires.
*lordraleigh cross his fingers
-
Aaaaaaahahahahahahaha! Vista got hacked already!
What do you mean "vista got hacked"? What part of it specifically?
The only actual vulnerability I've seen demonstrated thus far is a rather humorous one regarding microphones and speech recognition- If you have your microphone on, it will automatically pick up speech, and convert it to commands. Thus if you have your speakers up loud, and visit a bad website that plays an .mp3 saying "Open my Documents; Delete all; Yes" then its theoretically possible to have all your stuff deleted. Apart from that theres not much apart from some bugs here and there being worked into "OMG!! Vista is teh haxxed already!! LOLZ!!!11" by the usual suspects.
Xordan: when you say runs fine, what about performance? Is there any difference between fullscreen and windowed?? I was hearing this stuff constantly about the incompatibility of Vista with openGL, is that actually in Vista at the moment or is that something that will be added later? All last year I was hearing about how openGL games would die on Vista, now I'm all disappointed.
Edit: Just saw fireofsoul's post, I would imagine it would run a bit slower on vista- with more features running in the background, not to mention the shiny new 3d-ness. But I remember the talk being of it running extremely slowly on vista, is this the case?
-
Works pretty good for me, slightly slower windowed that fullscreen, but I get a good fps even with settings tweaked to best quality in my drivers and in bronzedoors.
-
I think if you are going to report compatibility levels with Vista you really ought to mention which version you are running as there seems to be considerable differences between the various home and professional types, moreso that ever before I think and the XPs had quite a few differences, mostly in networking bot elsewhere too.
-
Business x64 here.