PlaneShift
Fan Area => The Hydlaa Plaza => Topic started by: zanzibar on February 02, 2007, 12:35:37 am
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I'm part of a group which is doing a performance of a medieval troubador song. I haven't been able to find a proper English translation for the text. Can anyone here help me out?
A lot of the hyphens don't belong linguistically..
C'est la fin, koi que nus di-e, j'aimerais
C'est la jus en mis les prés,
C'est la fins, je veul amer
Jus et baus i a le-ves, bele a-mie ai.
C'est la fin koi que nus di-e, j'aimerais.
I'm not singing it but it would still be good to know.
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Is this from a play book or an actual book?
Often when text is put into play books the are transcribed to aid the actor, and sometimes differ from original text.
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It's a 14th century poem set to music. The text is a virelai by Guillaume de Machaut (I think), but the composer of the music is anonymous. I think that it could be a dance, and it is a troubadour song (maybe trouvere, I'd have to check), so I don't believe it would have been used in a play.
Edit: I found a recording of it. (It stops early) http://cdbaby.com/cd/istanpitta (track 10)
Keep in mind that this group has taken a lot of liberties with the score, but that's expected. The only thing actually written down is the vocal line.
Edit x 2: Hmm. They're not modulating the key. When I was fooling around with the tune, I was switching keys, but their lute player is just staying on D the whole time. And the vocal line isn't being doubled by instruments, which is something I was expecting for us to do. Options, options!
Edit x 3: Here's an early attempt at playing it. I need to practice.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=658240&songID=4954895
It sounds a lot better with reverb, but I'm not trying to make a good recording of it. Just something I can show to the rest of the group before we get together again.
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I found what might be either similar or a modern version of it.
C'est la fin quoigue l'on die j'amerai
Cella guise en null pres
C'est la fin, je veux la vie
Gise beau si a le vie, belle ami
C'est la fin quoigue l'on die j'amerai
From here (http://lyrics.doheth.co.uk/songs/mediaeval-baebes/worldes-blysse/cest-la-fin.php)
At least it look and sounds to be similar to me. Which if translated sounds just as strange.
My french has always been horrid so who know these things. I'll keep an eye out for a good translation though.
By the way sounds like your doing pretty good with it.
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By the way sounds like your doing pretty good with it.
Thanks. Thanks for the other text as well. I knew that Medieval Babes did a recording of it, but I didn't think to look for the lyrics.
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We eventually found someone who could translate it. I don't recall the translation word for word and I don't have it on hand, but it's something like this:
"This is the end. I will always love, no matter what one says. It is over there, in the meadows. I have a beautiful friend. This is the end. I will always love, no matter what one says."
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kinda looks like something Dylan would have written ;)
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I made a quick and dirty recording of myself improvising on the tune. For the record, our presentation was a hit.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=658240&songID=5147640
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Actually looks like something The Doors riffed on.
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Really? I think of the Doors as being more influenced by the Baroque period, especially Bach's organ music. Medieval song is more in the realm of Black Sabbath and Zeppelin, even Opeth. I'll listen for it next time I have a doors album playing though.
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The End (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20yyKTN5Gu0) Maybe not so much musically but lyrically.
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ooooooh. I'm not sure it's the same message though.
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Actually I think it probably is, as much as the poets and troubadours of yore (and some of them today) like to get all flowery I do not suppose sex has changed too much. The only real difference I see is how literal the terms used (or not) to talk about it.
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Actually I think it probably is, as much as the poets and troubadours of yore (and some of them today) like to get all flowery I do not suppose sex has changed too much. The only real difference I see is how literal the terms used (or not) to talk about it.
Right, because every song about romance or sex has exactly the same message. ???
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Well not if your song is about how much you love your mother, for example, but if it is about someone unrelated I'd say it was about getting some. It may be more or less abstracted from that but I think it comes down to how much you want it, how much you miss it or how it makes you feel when you get it. Feel free to disagree. Oh I just thought of another that might be sung by a certain type and that would be: I wish I knew what it was; and I guess another type might wish they didn't know.
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Feel free to disagree.
And I do. Strongly. I find what you're saying to be more than a little bit narrow minded. The Beatles for instance wrote tonnes of songs about love. Are you going to suggest that the meaning of each of their songs is exactly the same? I find that to be a ridiculous proposition.
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I'm saying that when you reduce them to their "base factors" one of the above mentioned meanings will always be present. Feel free to list an example that does not fit and I will indicate which I think it is.
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I'm saying that when you reduce them to their "base factors" one of the above mentioned meanings will always be present. Feel free to list an example that does not fit and I will indicate which I think it is.
No, I can believe that all love songs have the same meaning.. so long as you ignore their meaning. That makes perfect sense to me, no need for further explanation.:)
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It never ceases to amaze me how you two can argue about the most pointless of things :P
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It never ceases to amaze me how you two can argue about the most pointless of things :P
I was just trying to give Bilbous a chance to show me how his claim wasn't as nonsensical as it seemed.
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I thought we were having a discussion and was waiting for a judgment from from a mod as to if my proposed reply was too adult for this forum, as it turns out I sent to Karyuu who was not the first to check in and have yet to receive a reply.
By the way which thread here in the Hydlaa Plaza hasn't been pointless to one person or another?
Having got the green light here is the response I defered:
Couldn't find one, eh?
How about "Why Don't We Do It In The Road"... nope too obvious.
"Baby, You Can Drive My Car" <hand squeezing motion honk honk> I mean Beep beep Yeah!
"Michelle" Lovin so good I learned to speak tongues! well a little French anyway.
It was just a different time you couldn't go around singing about "My Hump, my hump" please stick it up my rump! and get the all-important radio play. Still Bread got away with "I really want to make it with you" Jethro Tull "came upon Mother Goose, so I turned her loose and she was screaming" David Bowie worked in "Wham Bam, Thank you ma'am" They were ground breakers.
After all:The term "rock and roll", which was black slang for sexual intercourse,
so rock love songs are eros not agape
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And that's relevant to what you were saying earlier in the thread.... how, exactly? I don't see the connection.
In case you forgot what you said:
The End (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20yyKTN5Gu0) Maybe not so much musically but lyrically.
Actually I think it probably is, as much as the poets and troubadours of yore (and some of them today) like to get all flowery I do not suppose sex has changed too much. The only real difference I see is how literal the terms used (or not) to talk about it.
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Feel free to disagree.
And I do. Strongly. I find what you're saying to be more than a little bit narrow minded. The Beatles for instance wrote tonnes of songs about love. Are you going to suggest that the meaning of each of their songs is exactly the same? I find that to be a ridiculous proposition.
It was relevant to this...or had you forgotten but if you want relevance to previous, let me see.
Medieval song is more in the realm of Black Sabbath and Zeppelin,
Black sabbath is not known for their love songs, I'm not too familiar with their material as I thought they sucked but I cannot think of a single love song unless it was about their love of drugs such as "sweat leaf" or "snowblind" although I suppose "Iron Man" could be about a guy with an erection, I kind of doubt it.
I am more familiar with Led Zeppelin and I'll say this: their first album does not appear to have a romantic love song being almost entirely misogynist in flavor. This trend seems to permeate their albums although after while they did move on to other themes. They were not known for love songs.
By the way, playing dumb is not a veryy friendly conversational tactic but lets leave that aside.
Your love song hmmm what can I say about that!
"This is the end." What does this mean, the end of what?
"I will always love, no matter what one says." So nobody can stop him from loving. Is that eros or agape? I would, of course, suggest eros as people "in love" are notoriously deaf to their loves detractors so in the context of the previous line romantic love makes little sense. Now if he was going to have his way with her regardless of what anyone might say it could be the end of friendship, his reputation or even his life depending on her reaction.
"It is over there, in the meadows". What is over there? Does he only love her in that particular spot or is that just where he caught her in order to do the deed. I would suggest the latter because that was where it ended. An alternate explaination is that she died somehow and is buried in the meadow but
"I have a beautiful friend." would suggest that she is still very much alive so the meadow must be where they lay.
"This is the end. I will always love, no matter what one says." This is a reaffirmation that it is the end of romance and the continuation of life.
Gees I haven't done much literary exposition recently I hope it does not show too much.
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The comparison I drew with Black Sabath was musical, and they did have a few love song (as did Zeppelin).
I'm not playing dumb. I'm completely serious when I say your posts don't seem to make sense. They do not follow from one another. You'll say Red. I'll ask you why Red is true. You'll then make a post about Blue.
"Meadows" is probably a reference to the heavens or some other abstract thing. References to the natural world are typical of virelei.
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I guess what I have been saying all along in one way then another is that in order to ensure their works would be considered high-brow literary works to ensure them being handed down to posterity they have frequently been couched in abstract terms with the meanings obscured so as to not run afoul of the church censors or to offend the bookish types that might publish the works. I am certain that there has been a tradition of earthy beer-hall songs and rhymes that have not survived for just that reason.
Here is an example of such a rhyme from my youth you are unlikely to find in any serious book of poetry:
Birdy Birdy, in the sky,
Dropped some whitewash in my eye.
I'm a big boy I don't cry.
I'm just glad cows don't fly!
As for my posts not making sense, for the most part they are a direct reply to the last thing said so if they do not follow....perhaps I am misunderstanding your meaning.
I do sometimes go back to restate things differently but mostly none of it comes from thin air.
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Two songs can have the same subject and yet have completely different meanings.
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True enough in a vague kind of way but two songs on the same subject can appear to have completely different meanings but in reality mean the same thing.
<being equally vague>
<elucidation> A lot of meaning is tied in to intonation and pacing. Two people can sing the very same song and make it mean opposite things. Not in all cases but fairly commonly. Take for instance a song about the end of a relationship. One person might sing it as a lamentation, slow and sad and another might sing it loud and proud, an exaltation. Dry words always leave room for interpretation. Arguably they are different songs due to the arrangement but they can also be considered the same song.
So to tie these parts together one song can be "she is gone and I am glad" and a second song "she is gone and I am sad" can mean the same if the former is sung straight and the latter sung in a manner that negates its meaning.
I still think your nice French song is about sex. You can polish a penny until it gleams but it is still only worth one cent. Polish it too much and it isn't worth even that.