PlaneShift
Gameplay => Newbie Help (Start Here) => Topic started by: Kaugor on February 06, 2007, 01:03:29 am
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i was wondering if the element atoms in PS were the same in RL. Or does the PS world have a whole table of elements on its own?
example: H2O - 2 atoms of Hydrogen, 1 atom of Oxygen (would this be the exact same in PS?)
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assuming they have discovered chemisty like we have yes.
but... they haven't so the elements are actually quite different.
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That's a good question, but Stu's right in that it's of no real concern to your character.
Sure, maybe there's some cool unique metals or something they'll implement later on, but the molecular make-up of that metal isn't important in a world where physics is not only unknown territory, but it's also systematically screwed over by the game mechanics and setting :P
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It is of concern to his character.
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It is of concern to his character.
Unless his character is a physicist from the early 1900s, I doubt it...
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He is a Scholar and is researching the various things that make up the world around us.
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He is a Scholar and is researching the various things that make up the world around us.
There's no possible way you could observe and identify the various elemental make-up of various things without some kind of electron microscope.
And even if you did have some way of doing that, I'm sorry but it's just way too OOC to have people running around talking about hydrogen atoms and oxygen atoms in a medieval game.
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Prehaps not elements but one can still look at things and say thats zinc, thats wood, thats steel. See elemental is not a great word for it but I think he is researching the physical properties of things. That doesn't require a microscope. Also the various terms he has thus far are totally different to RL materials.
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Prehaps not elements but one can still look at things and say thats zinc, thats wood, thats steel. See elemental is not a great word for it but I think he is researching the physical properties of things. That doesn't require a microscope. Also the various terms he has thus far are totally different to RL materials.
He's asking "If the element atoms in PS were the same in RL".
I said that isn't relevant.
You said it was.
Seems pretty cut-and-dry to me... Beyond the initial question that I answered I don't think it really matters what he really means...
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Well when one is researching something in an RP and IC way would he not need to know OOC what its even remotely like because game mechanics will certainly not tell us.
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Well when one is researching something in an RP and IC way would he not need to know OOC what its even remotely like because game mechanics will certainly not tell us.
I fail to see how the atomic structure of something would qualify as 'remote' knowledge. Real researchers in medieval times did without that knowledge...
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For all we know PS steel floats. Can we test that in game?
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For all we know PS steel floats. Can we test that in game?
We're talking about whether PS' chart of periodic elements conform to that of real life's.
That isn't really relavent to whether PS steel floats or not, and even if it was, it wouldn't matter, because your character doesn't know squat about periodic elements, so you shouldn't either.
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If we understand OOCly how things work in the PS world, ie. the properties of it's elements, then we can begin to predict the results of IC experiments. Does that not make sense to you?
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hmmm, you dont need an electron microscope to study elements, marie curie didnt have one. Its all down to theorhetical calculations and original theories when it comes to things like this. The amount of atoms and molecules theorized by people are vast, the amount that exist and have been created could be counted on 10 of your two's hands. anyway, what a pointless conversatiion. Imagine PS is at the stage of Alchemists and they are wondering how to convert lead to gold wiithout the help of a nuclear plant or particle accelerator.......
..... or gold to lead, I certainly know what is more common in PS, imagine using gold as the flashing on your houses roof :)
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anyway, what a pointless conversatiion. Imagine PS is at the stage of Alchemists and they are wondering how to convert lead to gold wiithout the help of a nuclear plant or particle accelerator.......
..... or gold to lead, I certainly know what is more common in PS, imagine using gold as the flashing on your houses roof :)
That's my point.
At this period in time, we're not meant to be doing experiments that would require knowledge of elemental properties to gauge the results.
You heat metal and it expands. Even OOCly, we don't need to know it's because particles get excited and start to vibrate and all that cal.
If you have a question about the world's dynamics, ask that, don't ask about elements and elemental properties.
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First of all, i asked if they were alike.. because there is no place where it states there not. Second, you have no idea of my plans so you shouldnt bash me down when you dont have your facts straight. Third, i never said that PS elements were the exact same as RL elements... i was just simply asking if they were or weren't. And lastly Fourth, If anyone in RL can discover elements, why cant anyone in PS? Theres no rule saying " Levrus is the only one allowed to research elements!"
@ emeraldfool: And i didnt say my character knows of periodic elements... it was asked OOC for an OOC reason. My character is an alchemist which is interested in the creation of matter in Yliakum, i was simply asking if the elements were the same so i wouldnt go around in PS saying, "oh hey, did you know that hydrogen and oxygen made water!" my point is, i only asked so i wouldnt do what you said i shouldnt be.
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"oh hey, did you know that hydrogen and oxygen made water!" my point is, i only asked so i wouldnt do what you said i shouldnt be.
Kaugor, the periodic table of elements was invented in 1869. Oxygen was discovered in 1774, hydrogen was discovered in 1766.
It's not important, because it would never come up in-game, because periodic elements haven't been thought up yet.
Alchemists don't know a thing about 'matter'. This is a medieval period.
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I doubt PS is based on RL dates and times. And RL doesnt have magic. with magic anything is possible, so i suggest we drop this subject and move on. I was simply asking some simple questions and you answered them for me. Thats all i needed.
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*grumble* Sure, let's build giant fighter-robots because with magic, anything's possible... *grumble*
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*grumble* Sure, let's build giant fighter-robots because with magic, anything's possible... *grumble*
Hey, it's not called "giant fighter-robots"! What is wrong on creating things like Iron Golems (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golem_%28Dungeons_%26_Dragons%29) with magical knowledge?
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My copy of Kalzium, the KDEedu periodic table has a timeline that shows these elements: Iron, Copper, Silver, Gold, Mercury, Carbon, Lead, Tin, Arsenic, Antimony, Bismuth and Sulfur as being known before their cutoff date of 1650. Most of these appear to have been known from antiquity. Phosphorus was discovered/isolated(?) in 1670, Platinum in 1735, Cobalt in 1737 and Zinc in 1748.
I think it is fair to say that the abundance of these elements may vary considerably from Earth as the elements currently known do not correspond to their discovery historically.
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*grumble* Sure, let's build giant fighter-robots because with magic, anything's possible... *grumble*
Hey, it's not called "giant fighter-robots"! What is wrong on creating things like Iron Golems (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golem_%28Dungeons_%26_Dragons%29) with magical knowledge?
How about sticking a light glyph onto a piece of metal to make a laser pistol. Ooh, or maybe you could cast some kind of anti-gravity spell on a carriage and turn it into a hover car... And we could have enchanted slabs of stone that are magically linked with other slabs of stone which can communicate with each other, and upload videos and webblogs... Which we record by using special magic 'vision crystals' which copies your thoughts to a stone which can be inserted into the stone slab.
Anyway, nothing has changed since the stone age in regard to our surroundings. We are the ones that got smarter. The romans had the potential to build nuclear reactors if they knew how. The same things should apply to Yliakum, magic or not.
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I'll never understand why there is such antipathy for magical constructs in a fantasy game that incorporates magic. What is the flameburst spell? Is it an oxyacetylene torch or is it a magical effect? Where does the fire come from exactly? What the heck is a Summon Missile missile made of? Isn't an Energy Arrow effectively a phaser beam burst? Why do people get all hung up on this stuff?
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I'll never understand why there is such antipathy for magical constructs in a fantasy game that incorporates magic. What is the flameburst spell? Is it an oxyacetylene torch or is it a magical effect? Where does the fire come from exactly? What the heck is a Summon Missile missile made of? Isn't an Energy Arrow effectively a phaser beam burst? Why do people get all hung up on this stuff?
Because we shouldn't think like that yet. Just like the Romans didn't know about using the potential difference of two metals to generate electricity, we shouldn't know about how to make phaser-rifles using magic.
That doesn't mean a Roman person couldn't have made a battery, and then made a circuit, and then made a lightbulb, but they didn't, because they hadn't evolved that far yet.
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We definatly shouldn't but we definatly should be able to study the world around us. Oh, whats that Emerald? You don't want us to? Okay, shut down the Scholars.
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We definatly shouldn't but we definatly should be able to study the world around us. Oh, whats that Emerald? You don't want us to? Okay, shut down the Scholars.
Sure, we can survive without science...
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Screw knowledge. It's for sissies that don't live by the sword.
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Screw knowledge. It's for sissies that don't live by the sword.
The more you read and learn, the less your adversary will know.
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Umm Roman batteries, nah they were pikers Maybe the Parthians or the Egyptians, do you not recall one of the antiquities endangered by the Iraq war was the Baghdad Battery? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_Battery)
Then there is the Antikythera device (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_Device) which seems to have been an analog computer of sorts..., Archimedes came up with a bunch of incredible stuff even disregarding some of the more dubious things he is credited with.
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Screw knowledge. It's for sissies that don't live by the sword.
Exactly! Well, actually without science we probably wouldn't have swords. But we can fight bare-handed!
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Anyway, the theory of atoms came from the greek philosophy, much before the medieval age.