PlaneShift

Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: zanzibar on February 08, 2007, 04:07:02 am

Title: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: zanzibar on February 08, 2007, 04:07:02 am
Right now, we have large cities separated by linear expanses of wilderness.  You start off in a large city, you follow a long path that goes through areas devoid of civilization, and then you end up in another large city.

It might be better to instead have smaller sites of habitation along the roads between cities.  I’m talking about things like homes, trading posts, outposts, farmsteads, smaller towns of perhaps only a few buildings, taverns, and the like.

The advantages of this would first be historical realism.  Whether you’re talking about medieval Europe or ancient Greece, city-states were actually made up of one large city surrounded by many smaller towns and homes outside the city walls.

A second reason is that it would make journeys more interesting and more significant.  More would happen along the way between Hydlaa and Ojaveda or other cities.  The journey may be longer, which will make the Fortress quests more annoying (good or bad thing depending on how you look at it, once transportation is introduced to the game it will be less of an issue).

Also it will just mean another way of adding new places to the game without going to the level of detail and effort that a large city requires.
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: Suno_Regin on February 08, 2007, 04:17:44 am
Sounds good to me.
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: drah on February 08, 2007, 12:56:08 pm
I was thinking about villages/settlements in the wilderness before but never thought about posting a suggestion for it... even a group of 3 buildings and 2 NPCs (don't have to do anything interesting, just stand there!!) would add a bit more life to the wilderness maps.
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: Idoru on February 08, 2007, 01:21:04 pm
Or even just a tent or a shack with a bloke stood outside.
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: Rongar Elani on February 08, 2007, 01:34:57 pm
/me wants a tavern on the way  ;D

Yes, a few small locations between the cities would be nice, like the ruins on BDroad1, but there should be something interesting for to attract people to go there. Otherwise the npcs in these locations (like farms, shacks, watchtowers, ...) would share the same fate, like poor old Nyshyn. Or these locations will have to be directly on the way, without any need to turn left into the "unknown wilderness".
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: zanzibar on February 08, 2007, 05:14:54 pm
I was thinking strictly in terms of locations that are directly on the way.  A trading post, store, or tavern would have the best location near the road.

I don't want this thread to turn into "ADD MORE STUFS TO THE GAME ZOMG" because that's not what I was saying at all.  I'm just suggesting a different approach to the layout of places than what we've seen so far.
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: bilbous on February 08, 2007, 05:50:41 pm
You mean you weren't counting the number of starships you could land on a pinhead?

There really isn't enough there there yet for much in the way of en route attractions, perhaps a lifeguard/water merchant at the elevated pond or a shrine/farmer before the Bronze Doors. the winch looked to be fairly large. can't really say til I get on myself.
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: Zan on February 08, 2007, 09:09:51 pm
Personally I like the deviation from the gaming norm where everything needs to be nearby and as action packed as possible. I find long lonely walks through the wilderness far more realistic in the current settings. Of course that's just my opinion.

The tefusang and trepor herds roaming through the lands would also be an excellent reason as to why isolated buildings or temporary settlements don't survive. The lands of Yliakum are very hostile, far more hostile than earth has been in ancient or medieval times. This is reflected by only having walled and well protected cities thrive.

I guess that some areas would still be safe enough to be inhabited by these type of things .. but I'd also like to see areas which are too fierce and dangerous to be lived in without serious protection.
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: zanzibar on February 08, 2007, 09:19:05 pm
Personally I like the deviation from the gaming norm where everything needs to be nearby and as action packed as possible. I find long lonely walks through the wilderness far more realistic in the current settings. Of course that's just my opinion.

Oh, I've been to quite a few little towns that feel lonely and desolate.


The tefusang and trepor herds roaming through the lands would also be an excellent reason as to why isolated buildings or temporary settlements don't survive. The lands of Yliakum are very hostile, far more hostile than earth has been in ancient or medieval times. This is reflected by only having walled and well protected cities thrive.

I guess that some areas would still be safe enough to be inhabited by these type of things .. but I'd also like to see areas which are too fierce and dangerous to be lived in without serious protection.

A mix, yes.  It just seems to me though that there's a formulae being used, and I don't think it's wrong to break out of that formulae.
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: Karyuu on February 08, 2007, 09:20:16 pm
I believe the tons of empty wilderness we have is space for our tribe system.
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: ThomPhoenix on February 08, 2007, 09:53:57 pm
Hehe, the tribes are fun!
I like to blow them up once their big all the time :P
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: zanzibar on February 08, 2007, 10:04:45 pm
What is this tribe system you speak of?
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: Suno_Regin on February 08, 2007, 10:09:51 pm
On his own server, tribes are already implimented. He posted a few screenshots of them.
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: zanzibar on February 08, 2007, 10:13:55 pm
I can't load images from certain websites because my internet connection is too crappy.  It's on and off.  Presently, it's off.

So, can anyone give me a text-only answer?
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: Suno_Regin on February 08, 2007, 10:41:00 pm
Well honestly, I don't know much other than what I saw from the screenshots. They're really just another type of npc, with normal clothing as when you first make your character.

But like I said, that was from the screenshots. I'm sure the tribes they're implimenting will be more advanced than a simple dwarf model with a new name.
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: Karyuu on February 08, 2007, 11:25:31 pm
As a very brief explanation: the tribe system allows for "settlements" of NPCs that do many actions players are (and will be) capable of - mining, gathering supplies, building, etc. They'll form communities on their own and evolve on their own. Magodra has been doing much work on this system for a while now.
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: emeraldfool on February 09, 2007, 12:10:49 am
Sounds innovative, but how does that effect us?



Edit: Lol, Hulla.
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: hulla on February 09, 2007, 12:19:40 am
i am ready for giving help to all the npc who ask "how can i make steel stock" at harnquist shop :flowers:
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: joshua6021 on February 09, 2007, 12:38:02 am
i think that could be the future of the lifers. place asmall trading post along the trail and wa-la instant attraction! \\o//
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: zanzibar on February 09, 2007, 04:02:45 am
Sounds innovative, but how does that effect us?

It means that there will be code in the game for us to turn our mules into bots with limited AI.
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: ThomPhoenix on February 09, 2007, 04:13:19 pm
No :P

Imagine a rogue. The rogue doesn't just sit around waiting to get killed.
He goes to mine, get some gold. Once he's rich he can multiply (gold represents food, etc).
More rogues will appear, mining too. They will of course protect themselves from hostiles (players).
Once their tribe is large enough, they might decide to expand their territory to the cities.

At the moment tribes can only do this:
-Explore
-Mine
-Defend
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: bilbous on February 09, 2007, 05:18:00 pm
Does that mean that if you waylay a rogue leaving the goldmine you can steal his gold or is his mining more abstracted than that?
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: ThomPhoenix on February 09, 2007, 06:31:18 pm
The gold is currently added to his "wealth" so he doesn't have actual gold in his inventory that you can loot.
But remember this is still in it's infant stages, it's a work in progress.
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: emeraldfool on February 09, 2007, 07:46:24 pm
Hm, having innocent tribes to prey on could give a whole new depth to evil characters... and thieves.

Instead of getting XP hacking and slashing, you could sneak into houses and rob the joint.

Maybe you could even have guild-owned tribes, which mine gold and craft things for the guild.
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: Narure on February 09, 2007, 07:53:31 pm
Cant wait to see what bugs that creates when it is implemented.
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: ThomPhoenix on February 09, 2007, 08:02:35 pm
Don't be so pessimistic!
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: lordraleigh on February 09, 2007, 08:17:57 pm
Hm, having innocent tribes to prey on could give a whole new depth to evil characters... and thieves.

Instead of getting XP hacking and slashing, you could sneak into houses and rob the joint.

Maybe you could even have guild-owned tribes, which mine gold and craft things for the guild.

It also would provide a mass that could be recruited by certain types of guilds as clerks, etc.

It would allow to give a more interesting thing for certain guilds and organizations to do: To dispute for power over those tribes
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: Garile on February 11, 2007, 05:58:54 pm
oohhh that sounds so empirebuildinglike  :devil:
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: Ozydias on February 11, 2007, 06:34:13 pm
Well I don't know about this Tribe system but I do agree we need more points of interest between the major cities.  Even simple places like the ruins add some interest.  I would definitley like to see some more objects and etc. placed around out in the wilderness.  I do agree that certain places should be to dangerous for anything.  However, to give it a more interesting feel they could add different terrians, exotic plants, pits, and etc.  In the less dangerous places you could add places like the ruins or perhaps even buried civilizations and etc.  Hopefully down the road it will be much more dangerous and exciting out there.
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: lordraleigh on February 11, 2007, 06:37:18 pm
oohhh that sounds so empirebuildinglike  :devil:

Planeshift isn't a RTS or 4x (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4x) though.  :(

Still would be interesting to have such systems where tribes can be controlled by guilds or organizations.
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: Nikodemus on February 11, 2007, 07:01:21 pm
Still would be interesting to have such systems where tribes can be controlled by guilds or organizations.
You already have it ;)
Make your guild to be a tribe and so you are controling one^^
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: Under the moon on February 12, 2007, 01:09:21 am
I just have one thing to say about the barren hills.

Quote
There were people already in four of the eight levels and soon there was not enough food for all of them....The first two levels of Yliakum - the only ones where it was possible to farm - were worked more intensely.

From the history of Yliakum.

By those statements, there should be no barrens, only endless farms and ranches. Defending those farms and their crops would give players an actual reason for going out and slughtering creatures.
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: zanzibar on February 12, 2007, 02:12:18 am
There could be barrens along side the farms.
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: Ozydias on February 12, 2007, 02:35:54 am
Well if there was nothing but farmland out there, while it might be accurate of the story, I think it would be just as boring as the barren land.  We definitley need a variety of terrians.
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: Quitarias on February 12, 2007, 07:52:22 am
well the terrrain between the major areas now is definetlyunsuited for growing anything on a larger scale its jus steep hills and tiny (usualy monster infested) plains.I would think that a whole new are would be needed for farms to be build or the hilds have to be evened out a bit.
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: bilbous on February 12, 2007, 08:41:19 am
Might be good for herding consumers, perhaps someone should build a Walmart. Grazing land does not have to be suitable for crops. It is still technically farming.
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: Under the moon on February 13, 2007, 02:02:13 am
Have a look at Japan's agriculture, Quitarias. When you have little room, you get inovative.

Ozydias: I live out in the country, and it is nothing but diverse around here. Between one mile and the next, flatland will turn to swampland then into hills. It happens to be that crops will grow in all those areas if tended right.
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: Ozydias on February 13, 2007, 02:17:03 am
Well I live in a place where we have mountains all around us.  You can grow just about anything you wish without tending to it any.  Now finding the land to grow on can be difficult.  Plants will grow in many different terrians and places.  My point is though if all the land was used as farmland it would be boring out there.  I mean ofcourse you will have your cities that will have a variation but if all the wilderness was farmland there would be little variation out there.  There should still be some wild areas where you wouldn't dare to plant, some areas where plants are quite hard to grow (like volcanoes, desert, etc.), and also other areas like the ruins implemented.  That is just my opinion though.  If you create all this great terrian and variations and plant nothing but crops on it, I could see it becoming boring out there.
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: Garon on February 14, 2007, 04:13:38 am
oohhh that sounds so empirebuildinglike  :devil:

Planeshift isn't a RTS or 4x (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4x) though.  :(

Yet, at least ;)  It'd be interesting if a realistic group control system could be used, since most RTS and 4x games aren't very rp-like, but controlling groups, fighting over them, etc. could be interesting.  Any chance that we can get worshiped as gods by the tribes?  That could be... fun.  After all, having an army is what some people dream of, and getting a group of rp'ers together as an army is kind of... difficult.

Tribes would give a whole new layer to evil players:  right now, they're quite limited.  But imagine an evil person exploiting/stealing from/leading to conquest/using/laying waste to/etc. the tribes.

Will the tribes be part of the faction system?  It could be interesting to see how that works out.

---

Having the tribes build these middle area settlements would be great, offering a huge new depth to the game:  it wouldn't be static (as far as one day to the next, not counting GM events or players).  Leaving one group one day and coming back the next to see a thriving village, and then coming back two days later to see them at war with a neighboring group, and then coming back a third day with some guild attacking and killing the town they built... now that would definitely set Planeshift out from the other games as far as quality of experience goes (although it's already set out from other games by quality of experience in many ways, both good and bad).
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: Garile on February 15, 2007, 02:10:02 am
I have to agree with Garon. The complaint I have had with many RPG games multi but also not multi is often the fact you are doing these great things and quests and often hardly notice any differences. A game like chronotrigger I loved fot the changes you could get by traveling in time and changing things there.

This tribe system would sound very interesting indeed with talk of guildcontrol and fighting over this and the NPCs expanding and perhaps migrating and hopefully affected by actions of players. You could actually have ranger guilds with the purpose of trying to minimize settlments becuase they threaten nature and guilds who try to control a whole town and then try to expand it and grow it as large as possible and others who are trying to prevent it becuase they want their town to grow instead and their town is so close by they are fighting over recources.

Would make the game a whole lot more in depth and also would give evil players targets seeing the devs don't seem to like the idea of pickpockeeting your fellow player or poisoning him or backstabbing him without notice. Well then lets do it all on the tribes ;)
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: Jeraphon on February 16, 2007, 04:23:14 pm
Quote
By those statements, there should be no barrens, only endless farms and ranches.

No, it states that farming is only possible on the first two levels. It doesn't state that farming is possible *everywhere* on the first two levels. The first two levels HAVE arable land: they're just not completely comprised of it.
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: zanzibar on April 19, 2007, 08:02:09 pm
Quote
By those statements, there should be no barrens, only endless farms and ranches.

No, it states that farming is only possible on the first two levels. It doesn't state that farming is possible *everywhere* on the first two levels. The first two levels HAVE arable land: they're just not completely comprised of it.

I would think that farming is possible on every level, but the crops will be different depending on the terrain.  Even under water, you'll be growing kelp and algea.
Title: Re: Smaller places of interest between the large cities.
Post by: Jeraphon on April 19, 2007, 08:18:20 pm
Zanzibar, you're probably right, and you'll already be seeing in game references to crops produced on levels other than the first two. However, the top two will obviously be producing the most, not just because of land fertility but also size. To make some levels completely dependent on the Dome and the Barn because their level is barren is probably not the best way to go.