PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: zanzibar on February 13, 2007, 09:09:54 am
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I don’t like labels, but people on this forum have said that the “duelers” in the game are among the best “roleplayers”.
From what I’ve seen, these are people who duel a lot and try to give it the appearance of roleplaying. But the entire existence of each character seems completely occupied with who’s angry at who, who killed who, who’s better at fighting than who, who’s disrespecting who, and so on. It’s empty, shallow, and annoying to be around. And after a while it just gets redundant. How many times can you start trouble with people before you get bored of it? You’re basically just a troll who’s using Shakespearean English to disguise what you’re doing as meaningful and interesting when in truth it's neither. You're just treating the game as an arcade game. And maybe that's fine, but why pretend you're something you're not?
Of course, they aren't all like this, but is this supposed to be good roleplaying?
And yes, I see the irony in this post.
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To take it to another level.
The Death Realm at this moment is incomplete, it is supposed to be much harder to escape than it is and so, taking death so lightly as to fight everybody you see is exploiting a weakness in the settings -> Development (Meaning that the process of development can only go so fast and so the setting is slightly compromised) which is, in itself, bad Roleplaying.
People who never duel, on the other hand, aren't that good Roleplayers either, unless they've come up with a reason (For instance, while in city declining a duel is acceptable because one would assume the guard would be watching).
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There are a lot of OOC activities that people commonly engage in. Camping spawn points is a powerful example.
For me though, there's just something obnoxious with the way people seem to put dueling on a pedestal.
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People have NOT said that duelers in general are among the best roleplayers in the game.
People have said that SOME of the duelers they know are among the best roleplayers that they know in Planeshift.
There is a difference... and I'm not sure whether you've intentionally done so or not... but you have taken things out of context and inferred things that weren't claimed or stated by anyone.
Also, the people that are saying this... are referring to the roleplaying of those people... AWAY FROM DUELS!!
It seems that you've taken a statement out of context... and have misunderstood what people were referring to when they mentioned roleplaying.
Also Zanzibar... It may seem "obnoxious" to you... but it's really really simple...
People enjoy dueling because it's fun and it uses player-skill which can make it more exciting. - People aren't trying to put duelers on a pedestal, but many were wanting to resist change in a part of the game they find fun.. and so were very vocal in that other thread.
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Also, the people that are saying this... are referring to the roleplaying of those people... AWAY FROM DUELS!!
As much as I enjoy roleplaying with "duelers" as you say. One should always be incharacter and, we are disputing about whether or not dueling to such a large degree is good or bad roleplay.
Granted, this thread can turn into a flame war (knowing these forums that means it will) but, I much rather hear everybodies opinions.
So, no attacks and try not to be too defensive.
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Drah, let's say that everything you're saying is true. That still leaves much of what I said untouched. I see these people roleplaying with a particular pattern and focus. I'm commenting not just on what other people have said, but also on what I've seen.
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"From what I’ve seen, these are people who duel a lot and try to give it the appearance of roleplaying." - I've covered that.
"But the entire existence of each character seems completely occupied with who’s angry at who, who killed who, who’s better at fighting than who, who’s disrespecting who, and so on." - Ohhh... you mean all the reasons that would cause a situation to escalate into physical violence? Yes.. reasoning that fits the behavior observed... is so shallow isn't it?!!
"And after a while it just gets redundant. How many times can you start trouble with people before you get bored of it? You’re basically just a troll who’s using Shakespearean English to disguise what you’re doing as meaningful and interesting when in truth it's neither." -- Yes, much more realistic is a world full of polite people who are all civilized!!!... it's not like we have shallow-minded thugs, idiots and bullies in the real world is it?!?
"You're just treating the game as an arcade game." - If that were true we wouldn't even speak to people, that in itself refutes this false statement.
"Of course, they aren't all like this, but is this supposed to be good roleplaying?" - Depends on the character, if the character is supposed to volatile and itching for violence... then it is good roleplaying. If the person is supposed to be a level-headed priest... then it's bad roleplaying. To call it bad roleplaying regardless of this factor doesn't make much sense... If they act the way their character is supposed to behave... it's good roleplaying. -- It does sound like you are just trying to pin a "Bad-RP" label on the majority of those who like dueling.
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Drah, I respect you, but you are avoiding the issue.
Is the amount of duels that these "duelers" participate in too much for good RP?
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There's a lot in between everyone smiling and being nice to one another and everyone swearing at eachother and dueling each other. More to the point though, we're talking about killing people. Do you realize how messed up a personality you have to have in order to do something like that? It's way past just being "volatile".
Ohhh... you mean all the reasons that would cause a situation to escalate into physical violence? Yes.. reasoning that fits the behavior observed... is so shallow isn't it?!!
When it is crude and artificial, then yes drah, it is shallow.
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Well, in the YWL we get around the issue by treating a game-mechanics death as an injury to the point that the injured person can no longer fight. -- This at least allows us to have full duels without RP repercussions.
As for the amount of duels these people participate in outside of the league.. and their effect on RP... well... I'm yet to know of a particular instance where a dueler came along and spoiled an RP, so... to be honest... I guess I don't have the experience to comment on that particular point.
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We've already established that you and I have different ideas of what it means for the roleplaying atmosphere to be spoiled, so...
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Dueling is as fun to me as crafting. Too many duelists make duels seem something boring and vulgar to me. Normally people would brawl, fight in groups and mug. You don't brawl with weapons though, and group fights and mugging usually involve more than two people fighting at the same time, not one person figthing at a time. This doesn't usually happen, from what I've witnessed.
But pointless duels aren't just the worst part. The worst part are pointless wars. Creating good and evil out of nowhere just so people can fight on a big fancy war. It's dumb and steals the ambience of a setting that should have midly intelectual beings, not war mongrels (like it happens on hack n slashes.)
And if the new PvP makes people less inclined to PvP because it depends on their characters more... Great! Go away. I don't like any of you. ;D
Duelists some times spoil RP when you're standing on the Plaza and they are picking fights there. They don't even know they're in a city, let alone in a plaza with guards nearby that would quickly put an end to any kind of bloodshed and disorder.
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I find duelists annoying. The amount of times people have stood in front of Harnquist spamming me with duel requests because my character insulted them... Usually at the most interesting parts of the RP. Once this one guy was doing this, and alternating between shout "click accept" and "you COWARD!" while my character was obviously hallucinating, even when somebody else kept saying "Look, he can't hear or see you, what the heck are you doing?"
My point is, there are hundreds of far more interesting ways to resolve conflict in an RP than /challenge, and personally I find it very difficult to RP mid-duel.
Personally I find it far more satisfying to outsmart an opponent than kill them...
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Cyrano de Bergerac, the Three Musketeers, Billy the Kid, Wyatt Earp ... Need I say more?
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Cyrano de Bergerac, the Three Musketeers, Billy the Kid, Wyatt Earp ... Need I say more?
The way PS works, you can't have witty dialog in a duel like the Three Musketeers...
It's just whacking and dodging.
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Firstly, I love to duel. Ryiel even invited his duel partner for a drink after several duels. I know some player who doesnt really like to rp but love to duel. Its their choice, isnt it?
Secondly, tell an npc: die. What will he answer? Why should I? I will reincarnate after the death realm. This is my philosophy of duelling. Usually, I duel with my friends. You know, Ryiel would never hurt his friends. Duel is some kind of practice where your "enemy" will come back in 30 seconds. And I miss them meanwhile... \\o//
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Rather than spam with duel challenges.. I usually (when my char is drunk or otherwise moody) try to provoke people into challenging me... or raising the RP to a level where you would realistically expect things to cross-over-the-line.
If you have a particular problem with a bad RPer being an ass and spoiling that atmosphere... "RP" them out of the scenario... have one of your mages cast a "mute" spell on them (translated in game-mechanics as everyone involved temporarily adding them to their ignore list.) --- just a simple example of how your acting, imagination and general RP-capabilities can overcome the thing that seems to be an issue to you here.
Basically... with strong RP skills you should be able to overcome the inconvenience of bad RPers by RPing them out of the scenario in any imaginative way you choose.
Maybe it would also be good to set a protocol for those who are experienced players and should know better... something along the lines of agreeing in /tells before challenges... as a form of RP etiquette in PS. Though sometimes it's nice to have things naturally escalate to that... I can understand how people into PvP can be an inconvenience to an RP scenario.
Just ideas... ;)
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Dueling has in my eyes nothing to do with roleplay in essence.
In roleplaying it is about the creation of your character and building up its life.
In dueling it is about the thrill of going up against other players and seeing who comes out strongest.
Both are very very hard to combine ... why? Because dueling includes a chance of ending your characters life instead of building it up. This doesn't mean that you can't be both a good dueler and a good roleplayer but any good roleplayer will think very very hard about including dueling in their roleplays.
Personally I have the feeling that there is way too much dueling going on in Planeshift and way too little fear of death.
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Maybe if dueling could be tweaked in such a way that you could choose to duel to the point of incapacitating your opponent, rather than killing them... it could then be used within RP effectively without having to worry about the repercussions of an RP death. --- I know in the real-world.. I've entered a fight and didn't have the intention to kill the opponent (I've done so just to help defend friends), with only the intent to beat them to the point they ran away or couldn't fight back.
A similar mechanism in PS might be beneficial... of course.. using lethal weapons does show a level of determination to kill, but when you're up against someone using their best weapons... what else can you do?!
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Disregarding duels and separating them from RP is diminishing to RP itself. I don't think duels should take place IC unless there's a solid RP reason for it but when there is and the situation leads to a fight, it can be very exciting and the outcome of the RP much more memorable.
True. I agree that there are lots of players who go around their duels entirely OOC (not being able to incorporate any RP to them or make any distinction between IC and OCC). That is just as annoying as people offering to trade with you without even saying "hi".
However, It would be inaccurate to draw any conclusions about players who duel and their RP skills by seeing them as a unit. I've found many different levels of interest in both RP and dueling, from players who fit Zanzibar's description of someone who basically likes to pwn other players and who's idea of RP is coming up with IC lame insults like "coward" or "you're afraid to die!" and that sort of thing; to players who would only use RP duels. There can be godmodding in both scenarios and they can be equally annoying.
What to do about either kind of player? Like Drah said, your RP skills can save the day or you can simply try to avoid them and look for a polite way to excuse yourself. I do that if I don't feel comfortable with any RP and I've never had any OOC issues with anyone.
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Maybe if dueling could be tweaked in such a way that you could choose to duel to the point of incapacitating your opponent, rather than killing them... it could then be used within RP effectively without having to worry about the repercussions of an RP death. --- I know in the real-world.. I've entered a fight and didn't have the intention to kill the opponent (I've done so just to help defend friends), with only the intent to beat them to the point they ran away or couldn't fight back.
A similar mechanism in PS might be beneficial... of course.. using lethal weapons does show a level of determination to kill, but when you're up against someone using their best weapons... what else can you do?!
That would be something I'd like to see more .. simple barfights and disagreements that turn violent. It's very extraordinary that these things end up with lethal repercussions. It can easily be done already, don't use weapons. The problem is we players are all too stubborn to surrender until we either die or have killed, there are no restrictions like in-real life.
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I don’t like labels, but people on this forum have said that the “duelers” in the game are among the best “roleplayers”.
From what I’ve seen, these are people who duel a lot and try to give it the appearance of roleplaying. But the entire existence of each character seems completely occupied with who’s angry at who, who killed who, who’s better at fighting than who, who’s disrespecting who, and so on. It’s empty, shallow, and annoying to be around.
I guess you don't like being around atheletes or top competitors IRL either?
And after a while it just gets redundant. How many times can you start trouble with people before you get bored of it? You’re basically just a troll who’s using Shakespearean English to disguise what you’re doing as meaningful and interesting when in truth it's neither. You're just treating the game as an arcade game. And maybe that's fine, but why pretend you're something you're not?
And pure RPers are overly-talkative lazy dreamers who do nothing but wax poetic about things that others actually do.
Both sides can play the labeling game.
*EDIT*
There are a lot of OOC activities that people commonly engage in. Camping spawn points is a powerful example.
For me though, there's just something obnoxious with the way people seem to put dueling on a pedestal.
Hmmm, yes, clearly you are a jock-hater.
I bet it burns you up that football players and boxers are also so-admired by most.
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Valorius, GTFO. Stop playing if you don't like to roleplay.
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There are a lot of OOC activities that people commonly engage in. Camping spawn points is a powerful example.
For me though, there's just something obnoxious with the way people seem to put dueling on a pedestal.
Hmmm, yes, clearly you are a jock-hater.
I bet it burns you up that football players and boxers are also so-admired by most.
http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Jock (http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Jock)
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Seriously, for now I don't see the point on roleplaying a duelist using the current game engine. Where can a character buy a rapier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapier) and learn the specific art of fencing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fencing)?
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[/b]- Depends on the character, if the character is supposed to volatile and itching for violence... then it is good roleplaying. If the person is supposed to be a level-headed priest... then it's bad roleplaying. To call it bad roleplaying regardless of this factor doesn't make much sense... If they act the way their character is supposed to behave... it's good roleplaying. -- It does sound like you are just trying to pin a "Bad-RP" label on the majority of those who like dueling.
Exactly. I was awarded exp by a GM last night for IC belligerince as he was trying to coyly answer questions to a few straggelers after the Huney quest/event. Because for an alpha male type, conflict and ego IS good RPing.
Obviously some do not even begin to understand what makes "alpha (fe)male types" tick.
Conquest, conflict, personal trials of pain and hardship, open battle, and verbal instigation (to name a few) are what makes alpha's tick. Tyring to enforce some kind of socialist wet-dream of utopian harmony is as fool-hardy as the new "exploit" restrictions aimed at ending effective moving combat.
*EDIT*
There are a lot of OOC activities that people commonly engage in. Camping spawn points is a powerful example.
For me though, there's just something obnoxious with the way people seem to put dueling on a pedestal.
Hmmm, yes, clearly you are a jock-hater.
I bet it burns you up that football players and boxers are also so-admired by most.
http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Jock (http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Jock)
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Seriously, for now I don't see the point on roleplaying a duelist using the current game engine. Where can a character buy a rapier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapier) and learn the specific art of fencing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fencing)?
IC i have Lvl 50 daggers and lvl 18 swords, yet you want to know if i've "learned the art of fencing". What exactly do you think "Training skills" involves? It is classroom/sparring instruction that is then perfected in the field with actual combat. I've been a RL m.artist/fencer for going on 20 years, and my RL skills pale in comparison to the training "Valorius rageway" has acquired IC.
Furthermore, the weapons used in a duel are irrelevent. The only thing that should matter is that both combatants use a matched set of like weaponry. Be it claymores or daggers, or even ungloved fists.
As far as rapiers- yes, by all means, include them. But then, i've already called for weapons dviersification.
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Tyring to enforce some kind of socialist wet-dream
The Octarchs aren't the Communist Party, period...
And yes. The way the engine currently works makes the world seems too Disney, where there isn't any greater evil or conflict raging on. This apparent peacefulness makes things boring, and the way the Octarchs are encased, protected and isolated from outside influences(guilds and organizations) for now only makes it worser.
*added
What I meant is that currently Planeshift lacks combat styles to learn and develop.
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Valorius, GTFO. Stop playing if you don't like to roleplay.
I could out RP you with my daggers tied behind my back. :)
PS: nice mature response.
*EDIT*
Tyring to enforce some kind of socialist wet-dream
The Octarchs aren't the Communist Party, period...
And yes. The way the engine currently works makes the world seems too Disney, where there isn't any greater evil or conflict raging on. This apparent peacefulness makes things boring, and the way the Octarchs are encased, protected and isolated from outside influences(guilds and organizations) for now only makes it worser.
Thereby leaving dueling as the only manifestation of the "evil that men do" in game.
Yet some want to remove it....
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First stop double posting. It's really bloody annoying!
Second, from the way your bemoaning the way people look at deulists I doubt that you could rp your way out of a paper bag.
Third, if your only concept of evil is dueling you seriously need to open your mind.
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Maybe if dueling could be tweaked in such a way that you could choose to duel to the point of incapacitating your opponent, rather than killing them... it could then be used within RP effectively without having to worry about the repercussions of an RP death. --- I know in the real-world.. I've entered a fight and didn't have the intention to kill the opponent (I've done so just to help defend friends), with only the intent to beat them to the point they ran away or couldn't fight back.
A similar mechanism in PS might be beneficial... of course.. using lethal weapons does show a level of determination to kill, but when you're up against someone using their best weapons... what else can you do?!
That would be something I'd like to see more .. simple barfights and disagreements that turn violent. It's very extraordinary that these things end up with lethal repercussions. It can easily be done already, don't use weapons. The problem is we players are all too stubborn to surrender until we either die or have killed, there are no restrictions like in-real life.
You are applying modern civilized sensbilities to a 15th century setting. Back then, people would kill you as soon as they'd look at you.
*EDIT*
First stop double posting. It's really bloody annoying!
Second, from the way your bemoaning the way people look at deulists I doubt that you could rp your way out of a paper bag.
Third, if your only concept of evil is dueling you seriously need to open your mind.
Feel free to interact with me ingame. I dont have an alliance with four other guilds and have a guild over 60 strong because i can't RP. Yesteday 100 people didnt rush to my defense when i was insulted by a noob because i can't roleplay.
And i've not double-posted a single time. Or perhaps you dont know what a double post is?
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Dueling isn't the only "evil", but all the others depend purely on roleplaying beyond the game engine and in having the roleplay accepted by the community, so it's is the only "evil" or significant action for power that the current game engine allows(I hope the "tribes system" Karyuu announced won't take too many months to come).
I know Planeshift is based on roleplay, and I like it, but having a game system to support the roleplay and put the border between what is and what isn't godmodding helps a lot.
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Feel free to interact with me ingame. I dont have an alliance with four other guilds and have a guild over 60 strong because i can't RP. Yesteday 100 people didnt rush to my defense when i was insulted by a noob because i can't roleplay.
And i've not double-posted a single time. Or perhaps you dont know what a double post is?
Four by my count...
Anyway, what bearing does being in a guild have on your roleplaying abilities? What bearing does having alot of people have? If anything the former is assosiated with bad rping due to the obvious correlations.
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Feel free to interact with me ingame. I dont have an alliance with four other guilds and have a guild over 60 strong because i can't RP. Yesteday 100 people didnt rush to my defense when i was insulted by a noob because i can't roleplay.
And i've not double-posted a single time. Or perhaps you dont know what a double post is?
Four by my count...
Anyway, what bearing does being in a guild have on your roleplaying abilities? What bearing does having alot of people have? If anything the former is assosiated with bad rping due to the obvious correlations.
What bearing does convincing 60 souls to commit to your cause have on RP? Hmmm......
What bearing does an alliance with 4 separate guilds have on RP? Hmmm....
Does the term "charisma" mean anything to you? How about "diplomacy"? How about carrying yourself with "excellence and honor that others might follow your example"?
I "roleplay" an effective leader well because i WAS an effective leader while serving as an NCO in the US Army. I don't have to "roleplay" leadership because i do it in RL every day as president of my own company. All i have to do is replace modern english with the english of the day, and i could fit into any century. Ask anyone that interacts with me in game.
And obviously, no, you do not know what a double post is. :(
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Redundant off topic comment removed.
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I could have 60 half wit noobs join me any day. That will have no bearing on my role playing.
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If you want to quote several people you can right click on the quote button, open in new tab/window, and cut/paste into the original window. Unless someone has been removing intervening posts and not consolidating yours you certainly appear to be double posting. Most of us think a double post is two posts in succession.
By definition a double post is two identical posts in a row.
I do not like making huge posts because A) They are very time consuming, B) few people actually read long posts, and C) ive had far too many long posts sucked into the vapor of cyberspace over the years for a variety of reasons.
If the mods dont like my posts, they'll remove them. If you don't like them, don't read them.
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I "roleplay" an effective leader well because i WAS an effective leader while serving as an NCO in the US Army.
Things are getting too hot... Time for a propaganda big joke!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=K2xhE3sGOhI (http://youtube.com/watch?v=K2xhE3sGOhI)
To balance the things up...
Counter-propaganda!
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/American_Empire/American_Empire_page.html (http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/American_Empire/American_Empire_page.html)
Noam Chomsky Approves!
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Hello.
Any time you have two posts in a row, it is considered a double post. Exception being if the time gap between the two posts is a day or more.
Please take a look at our forum posting policy and follow them. By repeatily double posting, in blantent regard of the rules, even after you have been warned, you are defying direct orders from the Mod and Admin staff. By defying direct orders, you open up yourself to have your posting privaledges removed.
I don't like having to do that, so I strongly suggest you use the modify feature. I understand that some forums allow you to post twice in a row, if replying to different posts each time, but around here, that doesn't fly. So again, simply modify your post, if no one has posted after you. ok?
And as for what I see developing here, I strongly suggest you both take a chill pill. Else, I may be cracking some heads soon.
Constructive coments are your friend. Lets stay away from he name calling.
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(...)
I guess you don't like being around atheletes or top competitors IRL either?
(...)
Hmmm, yes, clearly you are a jock-hater.
I bet it burns you up that football players and boxers are also so-admired by most.
I can't see how these comments make any valid point. They appear to be a personal attack instead. If that was not your intention might be good to clarify before anyone takes offense. I think Zanzibar opened this thread to discuss how duels are incorporated to RP and what consequences are brought by them. Agree or disagree with him but use arguments to support your point not falacies to discredit others' opinions.
And yes, double-posting (making two posts in a row) is against forum rules except under certain circumstances. You can check the forum rules here (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=22698.0).
edit: dang neko! you beat me again!
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Please take a look at our forum posting policy and follow them. By repeatily double posting, in blantent regard of the rules, even after you have been arned, you defying direct orders from the Mod and Admin staff. By defying direct orders, you open up yourself to have your posting privaledges removed.
I didn't know they were my superiors here...
Just don't give orders to people post what they don't wish to...
And don't defy their orders! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictatorship)
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Well, one of my characters was challenged 4 times by others without any previous RP to it, and the duels in the Death Realm are very roleplay-wise I believe. So I think that in most cases, duelers aren't RPers, but PKers.
[ Removed quoted content from a deleted post. --Karyuu ]
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Please take a look at our forum posting policy and follow them. By repeatily double posting, in blantent regard of the rules, even after you have been arned, you defying direct orders from the Mod and Admin staff. By defying direct orders, you open up yourself to have your posting privaledges removed.
I didn't know they were my superiors here...
Just don't give orders to people post what they don't wish to...
And don't defy their orders! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictatorship)
http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=22698.msg273553#msg273553
Do not flame the staff.
They have the final say. This forum isn't a democracy. Your vote doesn't always count. They try to please everyone they can, but in the end, they're charged with making this community as enjoyable for as many people as they possibly can. They can not always be right, nor can they please everyone with the decisions made, but they're doing their "jobs" and hopefully we can all agree that they're doing their bests to ensure a good community here. Even if you despise authority and curse down the highest ranking official in your national government, let it be known that senseless acts of lack of respect will not be tolerated.
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(...) and the duels in the Death Realm are very roleplay-wise I believe. So I think that in most cases, duelers aren't RPers, but PKers.
Dueling in the DR is a common practice but I don't think anyone involved sees it as IC. Personally, I don't and that is agreed with the players involved. I don't see anything wrong with that.
Duels are a good feature to have, just like crafting. Do only that and you miss out on lots of other things. Your choice though.
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There are rules, I know that, but this was a way to point neko's words seemed to imply all are subalterns to the staff.
And claiming everyone is a subordinate to them and must obey blindly their orders seems to be a little excessive.
There is a great difference between saying
"Respect the rules of the forum, the staff exists to enforce them and guarantee a safe and peaceful environment"
and
"Obey the devs and moderators, regardless of what they're asking for being or not included on the rules, once you register here you become automatically a subordinate of them"
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Raleigh, the topic is dueling and it's effects on IC. Please, stop trolling.
Dueling in the Death Realm is alright by my books. It works alright with the setting.
The only thing is that many Players seem to have forgotten that their characters feel pain. People may wish to become stronger, but, after having a dagger stabbed into you, I doubt you would want to run back and feel that again.
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Raleigh, the topic is dueling and it's effects on IC. Please, stop trolling.
The message was done, it is ended, and it wasn't intended for trolling, but as a pointer to advise on avoiding the use of such words that have a negative impact over the community.
Dueling in the Death Realm is alright by my books. It works alright with the setting.
As if it was alright that "*character* has killed himself", duels in the DR for some minutes and them quickly returns back to life as if escaping from the Death Realm was a piece of cake. It's more of an OOC fun than anything else.
The only thing is that many Players seem to have forgotten that their characters feel pain.
And also fear, anxiety, impatience, etc.
There is no way such factors influence on a duel. They fight like if they were robots. One character may have 20 dagger wounds against him or her and will still fight with the same capacity of before.
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I really contradicted myself in that.
Death Realm is alright because, I'm not even sure if you can feel there.
As if it was alright that "*character* has killed himself", duels in the DR for some minutes and them quickly returns back to life as if escaping from the Death Realm was a piece of cake. It's more of an OOC fun than anything else.
And, as much as I agree with that, we can't expect people to roleplay the difficulty of the DR once they are down there. But, your character should fear death, who knows what the DR is actualy supposed to be like.
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I find duelists annoying. The amount of times people have stood in front of Harnquist spamming me with duel requests because my character insulted them...
Player1> Your helmet looks silly.
Player2> YOU DIE NOW
Cyrano de Bergerac, the Three Musketeers, Billy the Kid, Wyatt Earp ... Need I say more?
The Three Musketeers were not psychopathic killers.
Disregarding duels and separating them from RP is diminishing to RP itself.
Dueling is not the problem. The problem is how people duel.
I guess you don't like being around atheletes or top competitors IRL either?
This is a roleplaying game. Not counterstrike. The goal isn't to become "#1 in the server".
Hmmm, yes, clearly you are a jock-hater.
I bet it burns you up that football players and boxers are also so-admired by most.
Hmm. If by jock, you mean ignorant meat head who believes in date rape, then yes. I don't care too much for such individuals.
If you mean someone who is competitive and good at something, then I think you need to expand your horizons beyond sports analogies. Maybe rock stars. Hey Valorius, do you see yourself as a rock star?:)
I'm one of the best duelers in Planeshift. I just don't enjoy doing it when it's OOC and cheesy. However, this is going off topic.
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I find duelists annoying. The amount of times people have stood in front of Harnquist spamming me with duel requests because my character insulted them...
Player1> Your helmet looks silly.
Player2> YOU DIE NOW
Worse my case:
Suddenly, without any IC word said(And without OOC message either):
*player* challenged you to a duel, do you accept it?
Cyrano de Bergerac, the Three Musketeers, Billy the Kid, Wyatt Earp ... Need I say more?
The Three Musketeers were not psychopathic killers.
And if you gave a longsword to them, I doubt they would use it as well as a rapier. Combat skills for fighting in military conflicts are different from the ones used for duels.
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I've just found this thread and yes I haven't read it all but I have to say what the hell is your problem Zanzibar? And don't label us as "duelers" truth be I havent dueled since the update. I agree that not all "duelers" RP but most of us do and actually enjoy the RP more than dueling, we get together in DR to duel occasionallly and yes this is OOC but to be frank it's just practice. Not all of my RP leads to duels but the majority do. Why you ask? That's simple. I'm an "evil" RPer so many tend to want to duel, in-fact 90% of the time it's them challenging me.
Don't categorise us it's insulting
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I've just found this thread and yes I haven't read it all but I have to say what the hell is your problem Zanzibar?
I'm pretty sure I describe my problem in the first post of the thread. I'm unhappy with the behaviour of certain characters in game.
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I do understand were you are coming from actually Zanzibar and when I started PS I knew nothing of RP and had never played an MMORPG, slowly I began to RP and now I love it. Some newer players are as I was, wanting to just fight basically all the time without any RP involved it all. Now i've read and understood your post I don't think your even talking about them I think your talking of players who have been around alot longer. I'm certainly not claiming that I haven't been in the DR for hours on end though by any means, because I have. Now though that's not the case and you won't find me fighting there, but that doesn't mean because my opinion changed on PvP in general that I will frown upon others doing so.
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Well, I'm certainly glad you read and understood my post.
I'm not talking about people who have PVP fights in the death realm. Though chances are, some of the people who do that are guilty of the things people are complaining about in this thread. And fighting in the death realm is certainly an indication of the attitude behind this problem. I think by this point though there are people who have described the problem even better than myself in this thread, so I'll leave you to read through their remarks.
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90% of people I know consider DR as ooc area...
that's all what I needed to say....
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90% of the people you know are wrong about the DR ;)
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90% of people I know consider DR as ooc area...
that's all what I needed to say....
I'll try not to insult the people you know, so instead I'll ask you: Why is the Death Realm out of character? It's one of the most rich maps in the game in terms of atmosphere and history. There's no reason I can think of to treat it as an "OOC is ok" zone.
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I actually agree with most comments, this is what happened to my one of my characters a few weeks ago and I was left wondering why they didn't use RP.
I was stood at North Gate, I was alone when I was approached by the five members of the same guild. From what I knew I had never offended them or doing something to there guild. They simply knew I wasn't the average nice person. Without warning or any RP whatsoever one-by-one they challenged. I wasn't going to turn them down (but I probably should of) and luckily killed the first two. Still no RP came and I started walking back into Hydlaa. Again I was challenged and luckily killed him. Then the first two I kill show back up and start challenging. That's when I stopped and walkedoff knowing how silly that is.
The point I'm trying to make is if 5 people try to grab me using RP then I was powerless, if they wanted me dead they had there chance.
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Imagine how people will change their behaviour once the death realm is expanded ten-fold.
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This is a thread warning: I don't enjoy being a babysitter and cleaning up after angry outbursts. If anyone feels like throwing out personal insults, do it in a place that won't mean more work for our moderators.
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But the entire existence of each character seems completely occupied with who’s angry at who, who killed who, who’s better at fighting than who, who’s disrespecting who, and so on. It’s empty, shallow, and annoying to be around.
That's beautiful mate. I've been sayin this for a while, and usually can't stay active ingame too long because of RP like this, I mean come on, you've had your father get assassinated 15 times now, once by a groffel, it's enough!
And I can't wait till the DR is all huge like. It'll keep people from just fighting all the time.
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And I can't wait till the DR is all huge like. It'll keep people from just fighting all the time.
Well, it'll mainly keep people from jumping to /challenge
"ZOMG, that guy told me to shut up! ..DIEZ0r!"
/challenge
*boom boom smash*
seriously, you step on someone's foot and they run a sword through your gut.
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It'll keep people from typing /challenge without any previous roleplay as well...
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You can also decline a challenge that you don't feel justified IC.
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Once the death realm is expanded, I'll stop killing new players. I promise.
Unless they have silly names or are obnoxious.
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Once the death realm is expanded, I'll stop killing new players. I promise.
Unless they have silly names or are obnoxious.
Heh?
Once the death realm is really big. I won't stop killing the newbie "1337 dude" that type /challenge without any previous RP reason for it
Why? Because those types( PKers ) fit more with Run Escape (http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Runescape) Community than with Planeshift one.
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Why do you guys keep separating PvP from RP ? Wouldn`t it be IC if i would walk to someone , draw my sword and swing it at him without any warning or any conversation before? Why not ? Could i be drunk , a psycho or even worse a l33t , yes , but there were and allways will be a good amount of those IRL , why not have them in PS aswell? The thing is , even if I kill my target , will i survive ? RL ..maybe , i`d go to jail or something....medieval fantasy seting? I doubt the guards or the victim`s friends or maybe just the do-good warrior walking by will think twice or bother RP `ing with me before slicing me down
Oh i`m not gona repost the same things over and over , i just remember i`m not a forum fan , reading some threads makes me wanna stop playing , but HAVE DEATH MEAN SOMETHING allready , via game mechanics, then let people PvP with or without RP prelude
in my opinion RP is NOT making up pretexts for OOC actions using fancy medieval english . RP is seeing your character like a person not like a tool , and playing him acordingly , making him "alive" . Conflict , PvP is part of that , that`s why i think you can`t separate RP from PvP
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My friend, doing as you describe lacks colour and intelligence. If you're drunk, give some indication of it before challening people -- and challenge them through actions and words, not just through the /challenge command, otherwise people won't be able to react to you properly.
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Why do you guys keep separating PvP from RP ? Wouldn`t it be IC if i would walk to someone , draw my sword and swing it at him without any warning or any conversation before? Why not ?
How often do you see people randomly walk up to other people and kill them? Sure, it happens, but when it does it's a big deal, and there's usually a pretense/reason.
PvP and duelling should be rare, and used sparingly to liven up an RP. It shouldn't be done because it's fun or will get you skillz. That is just totally unrealistic, and if you get away with it, abusing the lack of a proper policing system...
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How often do you see people randomly walk up to other people and kill them? Sure, it happens, but when it does it's a big deal, and there's usually a pretense/reason.
Not to mention serious consequences!
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exactly , it should be rare but nontheless possible at any time . I know proper policing such a thing would be a real challange but hey can`t i hope it will be posible soon (TM)? My point was that killing someone , in fact death , should be a really serious thing , like losing the items you were carying , perhaps your precious levels or even your character . Agreed on the random killing , just walking to someone and attacking him , it should be a very very rare thing , a risky thing to do , with serious consequences , but nontheless posible . I guess i`m just against artificialy limiting one`s options in game by accepts/declines and such things . Of course this would lead to a very hard-core game and discourage fighting unless one is absolutely certain he can win, considering what losing brings , but that`s what i would like to see , a game that does not emphasise PvP but leaves the option open for those that feel like taking a risk
i can`t get morrowind out of my head...there you can walk to each and any NPC and attak him , no "you can not attak this one" messages will pop up , you can kill whoever you want whenever you want (well that`s ATTEMPT to kill)..but face the consequences , guards in all towns will try to kill you on sight , merchants will either attack you or won`t talk to you and so on
Back to PS , such a system would discourage PvP if anything in my opinion , even if it would be compleatly open PvP , because most people that kill for skills or for fun value there skills and gear to much to actually risk loosing them . Then again you could chose an outlaw`s life , runing from guards and hiding in forests , raiding the roads robing travelers and such . To sumarize it , i`m not for random PvP for fun or lvls , just the oposite , but I am against limiting one`s options via accept/decline kind of methods
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But in Planeshift, there are real people behind the characters you're playing with.