PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Airjam on February 14, 2007, 04:45:40 pm
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Funnily enough, when being asked if I would like to learn sword making from Harnquist I replied three times "I would like to learn sword making Harnquist" + "I am interested in learning sword making Harnquist" and finally "teach me sword making harnquist"
Why would I get completely rid of a game due to these three things not working?
Quite simply, if nether of those phrases works, imho, this game is incredibilly flawed, I have felt, everytime I have asked an npc, that I am playing an impossible game, now this is supposed to be a roleplaying, no spoiler-sites game, yet the first npc you are told to speak to refuses to talk because YOU DIDN'T PHRASE IT RIGHT?!? In EQ, this kinda quest system worked, because it worked on KEYWORDS, not entire complete exact sentences! All I feel in PS is that I have to talk to npc-shaped robots, and after five days of it, I find the desire to do anything in PS has left me, this is a massive shame, I was looking forward to getting into this game, I loved it when I first started it up, it reminded me of EQ, there was RP (missing from SO MANY rpg's!) and people were willing to help.
However, to have such fundimental flaws in the way the npcs work is going to lose you more and more people, it's not realistic, it's not "one of the fun parts" of PS. It's frustrating and very pointless, I mean honestly, the first sentence I used, how could this NOT work, it is imho, the most obvious thing that springs to mind in regards to what your told, and EQ could even get this better then PS has, hardly a feat imho to change this.
I'm angry, mainly because I WANTED to play this game, I honestly, really did, but I'm not spending my time wasted saying a million very logical and obvious things to a npc that just says I need to speak a complete phrase! It truely makes no sense, please, make it so keywords are the um, key and I'll come back, until that happens planeshift is just too ridiculous to consider playing, sorry.
Yes I know it's an alpha stage game, but surely, using keywords is even more basic then relaying on complete sentences, you can claim it's to encourage people to use proper sentences, but when those sentences don't even work, it's still frustrating, and pointlessly so.
Start as you mean to go on is a phrase that comes to mind, all I could think was, this is the first npc i speak to properly, and I felt stonewalled. utterly.
Sorry, but MASSIVE disapointment, and I wasn't expecting much in the first place, something better then runescape was my thought
Please don't flame, this is a post meant to highlight an issue that surely must have been mentioned a fair few times now, and without issues being voiced, you cannot improve.
Trev
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Did you try saying simply "yes"?
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It's pre-alpha, dude. EQ's a finished game. Wait a bit and PS will gendown all those other games. =P
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well, i think i'm not the only one when i say that i too think that currently PS is not playable at all. specialy as a non english speaking player, its nearly impossible to get quests, or worse, finish them.
I'm sure there are many players only waiting to see "npc communitcating now works" in the next changelog to log in again.
But i'm sure we will see that in the next 3-4 releases (so, just wait 6-8 months, and hopefully everything will be better).
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So to play you simply must get and complete quests?
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well, running around gets boring after some time, and killing monsters too. i can play diablo 2 if i want to do that.
I think quests are a essential part of a roleplaying game, and if they dont work, it's not better than any hack n slash game out there. and the combat part isnt realy the best in planeshift
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If you want just quests then go get Oblivion. If you want actual rping and interaction with other characters stay here.
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I rarely use the game engine beyond the chat tab due to its current limitations.
What can you do in roleplay beyond what the game currently supports(Roleplay):
- Anything that is realistic and acceptable by the community(In other words: anything that isn't godmodding).
What can you do using the alpha game engine(Gameplay):
- Powerlevelling, duelling on fully random outcome combat(where you can kill someone with chainmail easily using a dagger while he will have more difficulties when trying to kill you with a longsword) talking with stupid NPCs to get boring linear quests that mostly are menial tasks, Mining ores, crafting weapons and casting ores, testing the game and using the graphical glitches("Piles of dust" :P ) for OOC joking(That the GMs will quickly answer to of course), jumping from the Windowless tower to take screenshots, commiting suicide on the Death Realm and moving your character's dead body around, Modding textures to make a video like "The Planeshift Simpsons", adding trolls and "1337 h4xx0r5" to the "ignore_list", reporting the same to await for "*leet* was struck down by Laanx! ..." or perhaps "*leet* was banished by Laanx to another Realm...." :devil: , founding a guild, making a group for OOC chat or IC whispering and taking weird screenshots like this (http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r75/tl3c7y/shot02.jpg).
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Well.. since this game is a MMORPG (emphasis on the MMO) i would think the point would be moreso to interact with the various people and characters you will meet in the game in a roleplay manner. If all you want are quests and leveling and beign silent all the time and running around fetching things for people, try a single player game.
But yes, the quest system, along with just about every other aspect of the game, needs tweaking at best. Hence prealpha testing.
Easton
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Did you try saying simply "yes"?
Pretty sure I started a sentence with that, that sure did make me think though haha! However, harnquist isn't the only npc i've tried to speak to, and every npc has, across the board, been that frustrating, and regardless of alpha stages, keywords make a hellova lotta sense to me, the fact you need to use a complete sentence, and at that a very precise sentence, still comes across as flawed, again, surely, it's takes less programing power to have the npcs respond to a single word? (even if it has to be delivered in a sentence) I don't know, as I have no experience of any kind of programing, modding or anything simlier, so again, this is another thing that held me back from perhaps getting as much out of PS as I could have.
Anyhow, hope you all have far more positive experiences then I, I will return in the future perhaps, right now though, it's just too frustrating=(
Trev
*edit*
Well.. since this game is a MMORPG (emphasis on the MMO) i would think the point would be moreso to interact with the various people and characters you will meet in the game in a roleplay manner. If all you want are quests and leveling and beign silent all the time and running around fetching things for people, try a single player game.
But yes, the quest system, along with just about every other aspect of the game, needs tweaking at best. Hence prealpha testing.
Easton
I mentioned the people were helpful, that wasn't the issue though, as the times I tend to get to play are often rather late, and I've hardly seen a soul, so quests were the main thing I wanted to concentrate on, and if I wanted to play a single player game, I would, thank you =P
Trev
[ Please avoid making one post right after the other in the same thread. Just "Modify" your first post to add more information. --Karyuu ]
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We don't really care, 'Airjam', if I can be so blunt. :P
If the words 'Alpha-testing' and 'Roleplaying' mean nothing to you, then Planeshift is not the game for you.
Why would your entire opinion of a community role-playing game be based on how well you can interact with a computer? :P
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Read it Carefully.
Quite simply, if nether of those phrases works, imho, this game is incredibilly flawed, I have felt, everytime I have asked an npc, that I am playing an impossible game, now this is supposed to be a roleplaying, no spoiler-sites game, yet the first npc you are told to speak to refuses to talk because YOU DIDN'T PHRASE IT RIGHT?!?
This is very good argument for this discussion: The Winch -- What are they thinking? (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=27600.75)
Just look, Airjam was playing for only 5 days and was extensively trying to communicate with NPCs. It is one of the most valuable opinion for the devs to think what exactly are they doing. And see what is the concluccion? The game NPC communication is encouraging spoiling. Yes, spoiling
The NPCs communication has to change, or one of the goals to avoid spoiling at all goes to hell. Sorry to rush you guys, you know all this very well, but it is that bad currently. I hope you manage to fix it, even if basing on the current system, not making new one.
Airjam, don't go away, i understand it is flustrating when you can't do quests. But most of the community feels the same. And i the meanwhile RP with other people, organize events for yourself and join events made by others. It may be fun. It is what almost no other MMORPG will offer you. And yeah, its testing-developing stage of PS, don't treat it like ready gsame where everything is working. ;)
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MY first thought to any quest offer is yes please, but always say yes, why do I not use my manners to NPCs you ask? Simple, todays youth will very rarely use the manners they were taught, why you ask? Again simple there friends do not why should they, only older generation like that boring old fashioned stuff.
Another thing to remember when doing quests, who made them and for what age group did they make them for.
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and EQ could even get this better then PS has
Maybe because EQ was made by a large paid team?
using keywords is even more basic then relaying on complete sentences,
No it's not. It's relatively easy to make something like IF $playeranswer = "Do you need help?" ELSE $npcanswer "What are you saying?". When you start using keywords the NPCs must of course know synonyms, or else you would still get the same situation, only you would not be guessing whole sentences, but words, which is quite the same. Of course a keyword system is in the works, but it will take a while for the NPCs to become so intelligent that they can recognize synonyms.
The game NPC communication is encouraging spoiling. Yes, spoiling
You are confusing things here. When you simply go to a website and read the guide to complete questX, yes, that's spoiling.
But when you go to that website or ask someone about a quest not because you're lazy but because you can't get a sentence's spelling right, I do not think that's spoiling, for you already know the answer.
And by the way, welcome to 0.3 :)
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The sad truth about talking with npc's is that sentence fragments seem to be the rule. "about this", "tell about that", and it is true that quests are frustrating, I mostly don't bother with them but from time to time I will ask an npc "who are you" and "can I help you." Often you can get them talking "about hydlaa" or "about *randomly chosen word of significance from their or another npc's dialog*"
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I rarely use the game engine beyond the chat tab due to its current limitations.
You have a Chat tab?! I haven't had a Chat tab since the devs removed it about six months ago, thus making it practically impossible to do any RP in an area where combat is taking place. If this game is supposed to be RP-centered, then the Chat tab must be added back. How many of you have tried to do some RP in the arena? Text scrolls off the screen faster than you can read it, when people are fighting NPCs.
-Roahn
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When not in a combat intensive are, I go with the MAIN tab
Otherwise, /invite *characters you wish to RP with* and GROUP tab for the sake of convenience
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You need to change the filter for what gets displayed. You can get rid of a lot of the combat messages in the options window. You still wind up with the "Rogue is nearly dead" messages but it becomes more manageable.
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You need to change the filter for what gets displayed. You can get rid of a lot of the combat messages in the options window. You still wind up with the "Rogue is nearly dead" messages but it becomes more manageable.
Yes, I know that you *can* change these settings, but this should be default, if Planeshift truly is an RP game first and foremost.
When not in a combat intensive are, I go with the MAIN tab
Otherwise, /invite *characters you wish to RP with* and GROUP tab for the sake of convenience
But going into a group excludes other people from your RP. I think RP is best when in open chat, so people can easily choose to participate if the RP seems interesting, or walk away if it doesn't interest them. The best RPs are often the ones that start out one way, then evolve into something completely different because of the participation of many others, in often unexpected ways.
-Roahn
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You need to change the filter for what gets displayed. You can get rid of a lot of the combat messages in the options window. You still wind up with the "Rogue is nearly dead" messages but it becomes more manageable.
Si. I don't know why you would care if someone 'changes their stance' anyway... Or even how you can tell they're changing their stance if they're in a completely different section of the arena...
Anyway, NPC-interaction is a problem. A big problem. I think that's unanimously agreed. It's something we have to grin and bear until the devs finally do something about it... but it's not something that should instantly make you pull the plug...
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Speaking of npc interaction did you hear the one about the guard who disliked pterosaur dung falling on him? I got a good laugh from that.
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Roahn, usually I prefer to move to a more quiet location to interact with others PCs than to use the /group, but when really necessary due to RP reasons(Character must stay inside the Arena, etc) then few choices remain.
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Bye bye!
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Funnily enough, when being asked if I would like to learn sword making from Harnquist I replied three times "I would like to learn sword making Harnquist" + "I am interested in learning sword making Harnquist" and finally "teach me sword making harnquist"
A simple "yes" would have done it.
KEYWORDS
Such as? Which words in what you said do you feel should be considered keywords? "Am"? "Would"? "Harnquist"?
If you think Harnquist is bad, try Merrinez. Sheesh.
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Such as? Which words in what you said do you feel should be considered keywords? "Am"? "Would"? "Harnquist"?
sword making
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Such as? Which words in what you said do you feel should be considered keywords? "Am"? "Would"? "Harnquist"?
sword making
"No, I do not wish to learn sword making. Where's the magic shop?"
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then "magic" "shop" or both.
If there are few hits, Harnquists ask you which you meant.
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then "magic" "shop" or both.
If there are few hits, Harnquists ask you which you meant.
But what about sword making?
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There seems to be a lot of confusion about what PS is all about some say its RP some say its the whole mechanics that make it stand out.. To me its all of those things.. For some reason some of you 'dont do quests' becaus they are frustrateing, so you just RP, but surely to RP to the current settings you NEED to get to know the NPC's, and that means doing the quests and understanding what is going on in the world.
If you think that quests dont make PS, then surely the winch situation is a wake up call. Do the quests or get left out, however you could then say that PS is moving away from RP which would be against what it is all about..
I know im rabbling, but lets face it there are a lot of mixed feelings going on at the moment.. AND as frustrated as i currently am with the whole 'winch' and quest situation, i will carry on trying to do ALL the quests and RP my little heart out at the same time, because believe it or not it IS possible to have it both ways. IF that is the NPC's would give me the god damn quests!!!
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Focusing on RPing due to a bad NPC-interaction system doesn't mean we hate quests and don't care if the problem's fixed, it just means we've been driven away.
It isn't an issue of RP vs Questing. Nobody is against having quests. I just refuse to do quests under the current system. It doesn't mean I don't want the system to change.
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Please dont missunderstand me, im not knocking you for not questing, im just pointing out that if you want to play the game and RP to the maxumum potential of the settings, you will have no choice but to quest.
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deja vu?
then "magic" "shop" or both.
If there are few hits, Harnquists ask you which you meant.
But what about sword making?
same principle but key words you just used ;s
are you on drugs? ;P
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Funnily enough, when being asked if I would like to learn sword making from Harnquist I replied three times "I would like to learn sword making Harnquist" + "I am interested in learning sword making Harnquist" and finally "teach me sword making harnquist"
Why would I get completely rid of a game due to these three things not working?
Quite simply, if nether of those phrases works, imho, this game is incredibilly flawed, I have felt, everytime I have asked an npc, that I am playing an impossible game, now this is supposed to be a roleplaying, no spoiler-sites game, yet the first npc you are told to speak to refuses to talk because YOU DIDN'T PHRASE IT RIGHT?!? In EQ, this kinda quest system worked, because it worked on KEYWORDS, not entire complete exact sentences! All I feel in PS is that I have to talk to npc-shaped robots, and after five days of it, I find the desire to do anything in PS has left me, this is a massive shame, I was looking forward to getting into this game, I loved it when I first started it up, it reminded me of EQ, there was RP (missing from SO MANY rpg's!) and people were willing to help.
This game's system works on keywords too, as far as I can tell, but when someone asks "would you like to do x?", you don't need to restate the question... I believe they know what they asked and don't need to be reminded of it. Saying "Yes" to questions like that is what most people would do.... It's not that you didn't phrase it right, it's that you didn't understand the system, which is different from Everquest's in some ways.
Also, keep in mind that Everquest is a commercially funded, finished game. Planeshift is at -most- a little less then 1/3 finished, afaik, and isn't commercially funded. Huge difference between one and the other.
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deja vu?
then "magic" "shop" or both.
If there are few hits, Harnquists ask you which you meant.
But what about sword making?
same principle but key words you just used ;s
are you on drugs? ;P
But I just demonstrated how the key words I used could have opposite meanings depending on context.
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The NPCs communication has to change, or one of the goals to avoid spoiling at all goes to hell. Sorry to rush you guys, you know all this very well, but it is that bad currently. I hope you manage to fix it, even if basing on the current system, not making new one.
Great Nikodemus, I suppose the Dev team can expect to see your application shortly, volunteering your time to fix this problem?
There's a gigantic gap between "The NPC dialog system is not great" to "Oh, here are the required x hours of programming time donated by someone to fix it". Unless you know c++ and are going to volunteer to improve it, then you really have no right to complain about it not getting fixed. People know this is a problem. Nobody has been able to devote resources to making it better yet. Live with it.
*Attacks random people with a huge "Pre-alpha" sign*
But I just demonstrated how the key words I used could have opposite meanings depending on context.
I raised this point while having a discussion with various peoples about implementing such a system (keyword based) and we concluded that players would simply have to stick to simple sentences, and not try and provide too much information in one go. So they would say "No I don't want to learn sword making." and then "Can you tell me where the magic shop is?". I think that system working well would be at least and improvement; complex sentences do break a keyword based system, but simple sentences let alone complex ones hardly work in the current system.
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Alright, i won't be exception and make the quote even bigger ;)
deja vu?
then "magic" "shop" or both.
If there are few hits, Harnquists ask you which you meant.
But what about sword making?
same principle but key words you just used ;s
are you on drugs? ;P
But I just demonstrated how the key words I used could have opposite meanings depending on context.
"No, I do not wish to learn sword making. Where's the magic shop?"
I suppose it is the demonstration, if not then i don't know.
If you ask this a NPC, then you are assuming the NPC is more inteligent than we ever expect. It would ned to have scripted to ignore "No, I do not wish to learn sword making." and care only about "Where's the magic shop?". Here the keywords are "magic" "shop" or both, as i wrote.
The NPC most likely won't be that smart and you have two options.
a) do not write about this what the NPC should ignore anyway
b) write it and expect 4 keywords for the NPC to take under consideration, which are "sword" "sword making" "magic" and "shop" and the NPC is gona ask you starting from the most probably hit to the less probably.
Do you understand now, or I'm on drugs this time? ;)
Great Nikodemus, I suppose the Dev team can expect to see your application shortly, volunteering your time to fix this problem?
There's a gigantic gap between "The NPC dialog system is not great" to "Oh, here are the required x hours of programming time donated by someone to fix it". Unless you know c++ and are going to volunteer to improve it, then you really have no right to complain about it not getting fixed. People know this is a problem. Nobody has been able to devote resources to making it better yet. Live with it.
*Attacks random people with a huge "Pre-alpha" sign*
But I just demonstrated how the key words I used could have opposite meanings depending on context.
/me get hit by the sign and fries ramlambmoo with a lighting bolt ;P
Yeah, i can as well stay shut, say nothing and look like everything is right. The Devs would also feel like there is no big problem and it doesn't really matter that sine the CB the questing system didn't really change at all. There is only more quests, only one can't enjoy them, because there is no communication with NPCs ;)
Besides, do i have to give ideas in every of my posts where i tell it is wrong? hell no, i will make it in next posts.
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"I want to learn sword making."
"I do not want to learn sword making."
Both sentences have the phrase "sword making" in them, but they mean opposite things.
Do you understand now?
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"I want to learn sword making."
"I do not want to learn sword making."
Both sentences have the phrase "sword making" in them, but they mean opposite things.
Do you understand now?
Yeah, and I said (well, not really said, because it counted for different example, but it count for it too) the NPc will ask you which you mean't ;)
If we wan't to avoid it, "do not" and its combinations become anotther key words, which give meaning to the whole. If there still problem with NPC, it should ask you, so that you can use simple "no" or "yes"
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Here's an example though, of where keywords don't seem to be used but they certainly would have helped:
- "I've found the key" -- doesn't work (or at least didn't may do now since it's been a while!)
- "found key" -- does work.
Here a sentence of less than 10 words with both "found" and "key" in (and in that order) should really work, even if technically the sentence used isn't grammatically correct.
I was thinking of sentence parsing, using a topic/subject array with an ability to apply a known verb to each topic/subject... and thought about how this would work (starting at the end of the input and working backwards)
Example:
"No, I do not wish to learn sword making. Where's the magic shop?"
"magic shop" - known entity/location/topic in DB. - topics for this sentence now include "magic shop"
"the" - skipped as it immediately preceded a known entity.
"where's" - location request. (Also the capitalisation of the first letter and it being preceded by a full-stop indicate this is the start of the sentence.
So, we know already that this communication ends with a sentence that is a location-request for "magic shop".
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"sword making" - known entity/location/topic in DB. - topics for this sentence now include "sword making".
"learn" - known common verb/action - verbs in relation to topics in this sentence now "learn".
"wish to" - known common verb/action - verbs in relation to topics in this sentence now "learn", "desire".
"not" - negate all verbs between here and the subject/topic.
"I" - context first-person.
We know the player-character does not wish to do something. For this part of their input, an NPC response of "Fair enough." could then be added prior to responding to the second sentence, which could then deal with the location to the Magic Shop.
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The NPCs communication has to change, or one of the goals to avoid spoiling at all goes to hell. Sorry to rush you guys, you know all this very well, but it is that bad currently. I hope you manage to fix it, even if basing on the current system, not making new one.
Great Nikodemus, I suppose the Dev team can expect to see your application shortly, volunteering your time to fix this problem?
There's a gigantic gap between "The NPC dialog system is not great" to "Oh, here are the required x hours of programming time donated by someone to fix it". Unless you know c++ and are going to volunteer to improve it, then you really have no right to complain about it not getting fixed. People know this is a problem. Nobody has been able to devote resources to making it better yet. Live with it.
*Attacks random people with a huge "Pre-alpha" sign*
I started playing PS during Molecular Blue and quickly got bored/frustrated with the game. I never deleted my account, though neither did I play unil the new release in (I think) late August of 2006. At the time I originally started playing PS (MB), PS was said to be Beta. That aside though, the originator of this thread (Airjam) has a very valid point: The quests are frustrating simply because of the manner in which NPC's communicate -- or don't communicate, as the case may be. The purpose of a quest should be to solve a puzzle, hopefully ending with some kind of reward at the end of the puzzle. Quests can be fun to do.. and they should be. However, when a player gets stuck on a quest not because they can't figure out a solution to the problem, but because they can't figure out the exact phrase to use with an NPC, there's a problem. There is also a problem associated with not being able to do two or more quests concurrently with the same NPC. Several NPC's are used for a series of quests in the BD area. If you happen to start that series of quests in the wrong order. good luck completing the series of quests. There were several I had started, had to discard to go back and get the beginning quest, and now I can't seem to get the subsequent quests a second time.
Old quests should be fixed so that they are working correctly before new material is added to the game. No, I don't know c++, so I'm not in a position to help with programming, but common sense should dictate that a base is solid before one starts adding more material to it. Perhaps no one on the PS development team has been able to devote the resources to making the current quest system better, but why then are they devoting resources in adding more quests to it?
Perhaps one of the reasons people use quest guides is because they need to know the exact phrases to say to NPC's to get to the next part of a quest, or to complete a quest. Most of the time, when I ask a friend in game for help with a quest it's along the lines of, "What the heck do I have to say to (insert name of NPC here) ?"
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Yeah, i can as well stay shut, say nothing and look like everything is right. The Devs would also feel like there is no big problem and it doesn't really matter that sine the CB the questing system didn't really change at all. There is only more quests, only one can't enjoy them, because there is no communication with NPCs Wink
Besides, do i have to give ideas in every of my posts where i tell it is wrong? hell no, i will make it in next posts.
Yes, but the devs fully realise there is a problem. Its been stated about 20 times before, and was the topic of the thread. I just don't see the point in repeating it over and over unless there's something constructive to be said, in which case it should really be said in the wishlist forum if you have a good idea.
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Please dont missunderstand me, im not knocking you for not questing, im just pointing out that if you want to play the game and RP to the maxumum potential of the settings, you will have no choice but to quest.
Hardly true. I've played PS since Molecular Blue. And even in Molecular Blue there were quests. I haven't done one single quest up until today though. And I roleplay. Oh, I sure do. To the "maximum potential." Quests are just things people (NPCs) order you to do. And Sangwa only cares about imperialist orders.
The other reason is actually the NPC system. I don't think the rewards are worth my patience ^^.
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Yes, but the devs fully realise there is a problem. Its been stated about 20 times before, and was the topic of the thread. I just don't see the point in repeating it over and over unless there's something constructive to be said, in which case it should really be said in the wishlist forum if you have a good idea.
Alright, but can we be sure they really realise it? Everyone knows there is a problem, but where is it? Which part? I believe these discussions help to understand nature of the problem. Personally I'm suprised, that for example the idea of NPC asking you what you mean, basing on keywords is over 6 months old and we can't see it in game. What we see is bunch of new quests, NPC answers. Only what for all this if you can't dig that from the NPC?
Also if in halfway you realise that making a quest you should focus on certain things, to make it more intuitive and probably add additional answers, wich make it twice as much work... suddently you have 50 quests to fix. It is great devs do quests, but it is worrying that no matter how much there will be of them, you can't enjoy this. Content without use.
But i do remember that the setting devs team has grown bigger only rcently and it is when the quests system really started to develop. Only if after a year the quests will base on the same principles as now and none of the ideas will be proposed, i will be really disappointed.
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Alright, but can we be sure they really realise it? Everyone knows there is a problem, but where is it? Which part? I believe these discussions help to understand nature of the problem. Personally I'm suprised, that for example the idea of NPC asking you what you mean, basing on keywords is over 6 months old and we can't see it in game. What we see is bunch of new quests, NPC answers. Only what for all this if you can't dig that from the NPC?
As I said before, if you think that constructive points are be raised and it will help the developers, then make a wishlist thread detailing the outcome. That will be helpful.
I don't think the idea of basing keywords if merely 6 months old- its a simple concept that has surely been around since planeshift started. The point which you don't seem to get by expecting it to be in game is that obviously all the developers are busy with other things at the moment. I'm almost positive that new quests and NPC answers are not done by someone on the engine team who would be otherwise coding something. That is why we have new content but not new developments in that area. It's better than nothing. Until then, construct away, but don't be surprised when an idea is only 6 months old and yet "we still haven't seen it in game".
Who says this idea is so great anyway?? In theory it works well, but in theory the current system works good anyway. I am in no way surprised that this isn't the biggest priority at the moment because it would have to be prototyped and extensively tested first. If you could come up with an algorithm for describing in detail how the system will go from the player's input to the NPC reaction, that would be helpful. Describing how the system gets it done is alot better than providing examples of what it does.
Lastly you have to accept the priorities of the developers- this may seem the most important thing to you, but other people obviously have other priorities- there are often more critical bugs to be fixed. Even if you could describe the algorithm complete with system flowcharts and input-output diagrams it could well be longer than 6 months before it's in game.
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The winch quest is prelude to problems, which come solely from the fact you can't really communicate with NPCs. We all like the bugs being fixed, but adding something what for sure won't work isn't the right side of the path. What we have now may be for testing puposes and so the purpose was reached, is it been tested out and people gave their opinion. Now, if similiar things will be added in future, without fixing the critical element - NPCs, it will be wrong.
Now i could sit doing nothing, like everything were fine. Heck, everybody could do so, so you wouldn't complain on that fact. Along your logic, the devs know whats wrong anyway and what isn't, so everything is fine, right? You say it and i say the Devs are asking for our opinion, to know whats wrong.
Of course i rather would like devs doing quests over no work at all, but you know, there is a limit somewhere. It don't have to be that way that the done quests will stay as they are. They may as well go through heavy modifications for the future fixes with communication, and half of the job done now may be a waste. Nothing is sure, besides the fact it is all basically the same since first CB day. Don't tell me like everything were fine and we should stay shut or join the team. Quests are very important RP aspect of the game.
Whatever, you won't change you mind.
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Here `s my 2 cents on the issue : Quests should be a compleatly different thing in the final PS version . Presuming that the aim is to get "smart" NPC`s that are able to "do there thing , play the game " independent from players , compleatly dynamic NPC`s if you want , then NPC quests should be specific to what the NPC in question is doing at the moment the player is offering to help . Perhaps at a point Harnquist will be lost somewhere on another level of Yliakum , so obviously he will want help geting back to Hydlaa , not ask for the same darn ore for like the 100000000`th time . What I mean is that if NPC`s will soon (TM) be able to interact with eachother and the game world independent from players , then fixed quests must go . NPC`s would engage in certain actions , and then based on those actions , "quests" should be "randomly?" generated .
I know the NPC communication system is curently a real pain , but i don`t think keywords is the solution
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What I mean is that if NPC`s will soon (TM) be able to interact with eachother and the game world independent from players , then fixed quests must go . NPC`s would engage in certain actions , and then based on those actions , "quests" should be "randomly?" generated .
I know the NPC communication system is curently a real pain , but i don`t think keywords is the solution
The problem with randomly generated quests is getting into places or doing something for someone who needs it done often.
Perhaps randomly generated quests with static reward types, although there would need to be some basis behind the random generation of the quests to keep it as though the npc actually would ask that. I personally think that random quests would be good, but not a perfect solution either: perhaps static quests and then also random quests/context based quests? After all, a quest for winch entrance couldn't be random, otherwise it might not make any sense whatsoever.
And maybe Harnquist doesn't want to go back to Hydlaa, because someone else is leading him away from Hydlaa to someone who wants to buy something ;)