PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: bilbous on February 15, 2007, 08:05:35 am
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If you were roleplaying with someone who was obviously trying to sell you a bill of goods, how difficult would it be for him to successfully swindle you? Would you use OOC information about whatever item he was trying to pass to refuse to deal with him or would you try to make a deal without resort to it?
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If my character was a Kran with 35 INT, piece of cake.
Otherwise, well that's a little subjective isn't it? But I guess 55 or 60 is the average Intelligence from the way the stats are now, it would be the same difficulty of tricking an average person, while anything above should raise the chances of failure. Also the Charisma and Intelligence of the con man should influence on the final outcome.
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Is the con doing it IC or OOC? Is the con using OOC tactics?
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I'm very intrigued at just how many people would let their characters be taken advantage of, IC.
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I'm very intrigued at just how many people would let their characters be taken advantage of, IC.
I don't have a vacant character slot to make a dumb Kran, sadly... :(
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I'm very intrigued at just how many people would let their characters be taken advantage of, IC.
It's better to think of it as taking risks in character and then finding out what happens. If you know you're getting conned but pretending you don't realize it... I see that as play-acting, not role-playing.
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I was assuming in context of course although you are correct I should have said so in the setup. If he was using out of context methods it would not be so obvious a con of course.
As far as stats goes they do not always tell the tale as sometimes you might get taken by how pathetic he seems as much as how confused or amused he makes you. Sometimes people sell themselves and buy knowingly.
One thing I think is virtually certain is that there will never be skills developed like sleight of hand which would help pull off some scam fully in context.
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IC = in character. The rest of your post lost me.
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equate "in context" with "in character"
As for people selling themselves Why do tourist buy cheap souvenirs that are destined for the garbage once they get home? Why does someone buy a busker's tshirt on the street, if it isn't because they were entertained? why does the guy in the wheelchair make more than the guy sitting on his backpack if it isn't pathos? How do people end up with extended warranties on the new appliances if they are not confused about its usefulness?
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equate "in context" with "in character"
I have resistance to doing that since they don't mean the same thing.
As for people selling themselves Why do tourist buy cheap souvenirs that are destined for the garbage once they get home? Why does someone buy a busker's tshirt on the street, if it isn't because they were entertained? why does the guy in the wheelchair make more than the guy sitting on his backpack if it isn't pathos? How do people end up with extended warranties on the new appliances if they are not confused about its usefulness?
I don't at all see how this is in any way relevant.
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As for people selling themselves Why do tourist buy cheap souvenirs that are destined for the garbage once they get home? Why does someone buy a busker's tshirt on the street, if it isn't because they were entertained? why does the guy in the wheelchair make more than the guy sitting on his backpack if it isn't pathos? How do people end up with extended warranties on the new appliances if they are not confused about its usefulness?
I don't at all see how this is in any way relevant.
He's saying that your charisma or intelligence don't affect things like whether somebody takes pity on you due to being disabled, or whether someone is under social pressure to buy a souvenir to show off to his family.
And my characters are all either transspecies, tactless or crazy - I screwed them over long before anyone else did :P
(But I'm all for conning. I've actually paid thousands of trias for information I already knew OOC before :P)
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Well Chief, would you believe "in the context of the character?" I assure you I was using the terms interchangeably in this case. What I was suggesting is that someone with a predisposition to buy is easier to con than someone more skeptical.
Aside to Zanzibar: Thank you for the PM. Was I not supposed to reply, did you forget to remove your block, or is something wrong with the forum software? I made the attempt to no avail.
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If everything happens IC and my character has no way to know that what she is being told is bogus but trusts the person saying it (despite the fact that I may know OOCly that such a thing does not exist or is not possible), I would go along.
For example, if someone my character trusts offered a <made up name> Glyph and explained all its properties and their need to sell it, my char would show interest. I, as a player, know such an item doesn't exist but not my character because she has limited knowledge of magic. I can't be sure if the RP is heading towards that (wouldn't be the first RP glyph to appear) but that's part of the fun. Thus, she may fall for the con. That wouldn't happen with a weapon probably, since she has more knowledge in that field than magic.
The fact that you may know OOC that something isn't implemented yet or simply won't, doesn't mean that it can be presented ICly somehow, and it doesn't have to be a scripted RP at all.
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Well, I once conned someone IC.
He didn't like it and /report'ed me.
Fun stuff.
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Well, I once conned someone IC.
He didn't like it and /report'ed me.
Fun stuff.
I like to drop hints as to what my intentions are with that stuff. At least then you can accuse them of being idiots :P
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Well Chief, would you believe "in the context of the character?" I assure you I was using the terms interchangeably in this case. What I was suggesting is that someone with a predisposition to buy is easier to con than someone more skeptical.
Aside to Zanzibar: Thank you for the PM. Was I not supposed to reply, did you forget to remove your block, or is something wrong with the forum software? I made the attempt to no avail.
"In Character" is just a better way to say it. There's less room for misunderstanding. The forum software is fine, I forgot about the block.
Well, I once conned someone IC.
He didn't like it and /report'ed me.
Fun stuff.
I've been reported for IC behaviour more times than I can count, but it was never for actually conning anyone. (In none of those cases was I griefing anyone. And in none of those cases was I ever found culpable of anything. It's just the way things work, I guess.)
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People often have a hard time making differences between IC and OOC, we've seen it and discussed it many times before. However, there's a fine line between taking advantage IC of another person and actually ruining the fun for the player on the other side.
I guess things like taking someone's stuff because they dropped it carelessly can be justified IC but if that really bothers the player you took it from is it really worth it? I'm not saying don't do, I'm saying do it but keep it all IC. Take the stuff/money, then return it if you see this can escalate into an OOC issue, but RP that you still have it or offer the player a chance to take it back IC as well. Unless you actually care about taking advantage of people for real I don't see why you actually have to ruin someone's day.
To me, the most important thing is that everyone enjoys playing the game, be that RPing or doing whatever they like best. That usually helps me with my RP when things get blurry between IC and OOC and I've never had an OOC problem with anyone (so, it seems to work). Nobody's fun comes before that of the rest, especially when things can be agreed on concerning details like "yeah, you still got my 1m trias even though you've just returned them and my char will want payback". That way the /report command wouldn't be used unnecessarily and most importantly, RP could be encouraged.
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If you are pulling a con as your character, but you are trying to trick the player behind the other character, that is an OOC con, and can leave hurt feelings. I have conned people, and have stolen from others. It was all done so that the other person knew it was a devious act, but done in a way that they did not know exactly what until it was over. Then I leave happy, and they leave happy, even though their character is left scratching his head as to what just happened.
I have also let my characters be conned once or twice, if done in a coorect RP manner. That means giving hints ooc at times.
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If you are pulling a con as your character, but you are trying to trick the player behind the other character, that is an OOC con, and can leave hurt feelings. I have conned people, and have stolen from others. It was all done so that the other person knew it was a devious act, but done in a way that they did not know exactly what until it was over. Then I leave happy, and they leave happy, even though their character is left scratching his head as to what just happened.
I have also let my characters be conned once or twice, if done in a coorect RP manner. That means giving hints ooc at times.
Yeah, just like what I said :P
How come everyone tries so hard not to agree with me...
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Well I just got conned, on the forum and not in the game. I spent twenty minutes last night composing a reply to Zanzibars PM only to have it blocked, I only wasted ten minutes composing tonight. Did you know that "save a copy" in your outbox only works if the message actually gets out? I'd say that is something wrong with the forum. Guess he just wanted to know if I'd accept PMs.
Anywho I guess there is not much more to say that is on topic although I was thinking along the lines of saying a sword of clear thought was intelligent and would give you snappy comebacks to dull conversation. Obviously not true but a story to hang a con on.
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If you press the back button, the text should still be on the screen.
I've seen better (Dutch, obviously) forums which output the text you wrote below an error message, so you can at least copy it out.
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If you press the back button, the text should still be on the screen.
I've seen better (Dutch, obviously) forums which output the text you wrote below an error message, so you can at least copy it out.
I was just about to say that the back button would have done it.
Twenty minutes to write me a PM? That makes no sense. All I said was that "bilous" brings up so many results in google that I'd doubt you'd have to worry about what happens on this forum, and then I wrote back and apologized because "bilbous" has a much smaller number of results. I don't even see how that's worth replying to.
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I was trying to take the opportunity to reply to issues you had raised in the quote thread of which you pm seemed to be a continuation. I am not a fast typer and was trying to choose my words carefully. No matter. In the words of a Great(?) man
"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."
video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A)
It is not a big flaw with the forum but it is a flaw that there is no draft folder or whatever. Wish I had a sword of clear thought now as I could use some snappy answers....
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The quote is irrelevant since no one is trying to fool anyone - unless you're trying to fool people into thinking that someone else is trying to fool people.
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You left me with the erroneous impression that you would receive my PMs which I am no longer interested in sending. Now will you please comment on-topic or stop spamming my thread.
I'm gonna need a dozen of them swords to deal with this guy anyone selling? Heh heh <-- hybrid on/off topic posting.
I'll shut up now and hope someone gets back to the topic.
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If you aren't interested in sending me PMs, then what's the problem? Anyway it was you who went off topic in your own thread so you're in no position to complain. As before, I'll respect your request, as silly as I think it is.
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Well, ahem, I think it's unanimously agreed that my way of dropping hints IC when you plan to dupe someone - so that the player understands what's going down but the character doesn't - is the best way to go about it... :P
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Well, ahem, I think it's unanimously agreed that my way of dropping hints IC when you plan to dupe someone - so that the player understands what's going down but the character doesn't - is the best way to go about it... :P
There are other ways to con people as well though. There was one time where I had a new player deliver a dagger to someone in the tavern. I got some friends organized and we ended up framing the poor guy for murder, using the fact he was seen with the murder weapon. I even had my character take the dagger from him by having him put it on the table and then my character picked it up with a piece of cloth, thus his were the only fingerprints on the blade. There was eventually a huge mob of clueless players who took it upon themselves to track this guy down vigilante style and put him on trial. And all this without an actual crime being committed.:)
More recently I had people deliver packages for me and arranged for someone else to pay them for their help. The whole deal was rather "mum's the word" and I disapeared after sending them off. Now, if someone gave you a job like that - and paid you 5,000 trias for your time - wouldn't you be suspicious? Wouldn't you be worried that you're involving yourself in something that's potentially of a criminal nature?
I guess this isn't conning people so much as playing them, but I'm convinced that there's ways to have fun doing illegal things in the game... the problem is that unless you're actually griefing people or robbing them, you have to play a bit of dungeon master. But people are very willing to do jobs for you. The hard part seems to be having fun with the follow up. I've been toying with the idea of hooking up with the Hydlaa Law Enforcement guilds to help with just that.
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ooh i LOVE conning people in planeshift... and the best way to do it is con them without them knowing they've been conned by you. You're happy and they are non the wiser and with the charity scam for example they think they are actualy doing good so they are happy.
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ooh i LOVE conning people in planeshift... and the best way to do it is con them without them knowing they've been conned by you. You're happy and they are non the wiser and with the charity scam for example they think they are actualy doing good so they are happy.
There was a charity scam?
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umm I'm sure there must have been more than one as it is so easy to pull off and it rakes in tria like no tomorrow.
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Kinda hard to scam people with a massive "<The Outlaws>" tag floating above your head though, isn't it? :P
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Kinda hard to scam people with a massive "<The Outlaws>" tag floating above your head though, isn't it? :P
They don't want to toggle on the "secret" flag of "The Outlaws" for a weird reason ???
If was a gangsta I wouldn't ID myself as one or wear anything to denounce me...
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They don't want to toggle on the "secret" flag of "The Outlaws" for a weird reason ???
If was a gangsta I wouldn't ID myself as one or wear anything to denounce me...
Most gangs do use colours and patches to identify themselves, whether you're talking about a doo rag or a hell's angels jacket.
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They don't want to toggle on the "secret" flag of "The Outlaws" for a weird reason ???
If was a gangsta I wouldn't ID myself as one or wear anything to denounce me...
Most gangs do use colours and patches to identify themselves, whether you're talking about a doo rag or a hell's angels jacket.
Yeah, haven't you ever heard of 'representin'? You get shot for not wearing gang threads...
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Yeah, haven't you ever heard of 'representin'?
Right, because all gangs are black. Genius.
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Yeah, haven't you ever heard of 'representin'?
Right, because all gangs are black. Genius.
All gangs? Black? What're you talking about?
What makes you think the concept of 'representin' is exclusive to African-Irishmen?
And what makes you think I'm speaking for all gangs?
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Yeah, haven't you ever heard of 'representin'?
Right, because all gangs are black. Genius.
All gangs? Black? What're you talking about?
What makes you think the concept of 'representin' is exclusive to African-Irishmen?
And what makes you think I'm speaking for all gangs?
You were immitating ebonic slang. There's no point in denying it. The discussion was about all gangs and you did not qualify your statement to focus in on any particular group.
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You were immitating ebonic slang. There's no point in denying it. The discussion was about all gangs and you did not qualify your statement to focus in on any particular group.
I say 'representin' and I'm white. Err... yellow. I also use the N-word quite indiscriminately. It's what makes me not a racist :P (Which, really, I could never be considered, but you know...)
(I never knew it was called 'ebonic' though... Isn't that a type of wood?)
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I say 'representin' and I'm white. Err... yellow. I also use the N-word quite indiscriminately. It's what makes me not a racist :P (Which, really, I could never be considered, but you know...)
(I never knew it was called 'ebonic' though... Isn't that a type of wood?)
Yeah, you're right. I just come from a hell's angels town so I have a broad definition of what a gang is... and when Emerald wrote "representin", I couldn't help but feel that he was singling out black gangs because of the stereotype of what a gang member is.
Ebonic is what uptight white people call inner-city african-american accents when they want to feel like they're being politically correct. I'd just call it street talk but that term isn't much better either. It's just the way some people speak.
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Ebonics are no longer just an 'inner city african-American' language, it has spread a lot. I think the Ebonics dictionary is in its ninth printing. The language is used by people in all walks of life, from the little white, blonde schoolgirl to executive meetings.
Try out the translator (http://joel.net/EBONICS/translator.asp). :D
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Ebonics are no longer just an 'inner city african-American' language, it has spread a lot. I think the Ebonics dictionary is in its ninth printing. The language is used by people in all walks of life, from the little white, blonde schoolgirl to executive meetings.
Try out the translator (http://joel.net/EBONICS/translator.asp). :D
Done it (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=25849.msg315442#msg315442) ::|
Thanks @LARAGORN
You don' wants ta mess wiff me!