PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: joshua6021 on February 19, 2007, 01:22:55 pm
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I know this topic has been talked about before but I do not think anyone has attempted to fulfill its complete potential. Plane shift offers a very interesting and unique foundation to create something unheard of. A couple of my students and me have been discussing the parameters around this game and have discovered, maybe not, that PS offers a chance to create a government without borders. The borders are abstract and consist of an allegiance to one guild or the other, but since there can be no truly marked territory rules must be changed. These rules should be invented by us the players. If enough of the guilds out there will show enough interest in this undertaking, a couple of my students and me would like to begin an experiment that could prove to be a very interesting concept. This would not be an overnight undertaking. It might take months or longer, but one thing is for sure! It would be fun.
The first objective will be for enough guilds or independent thinkers to submit some sort of registration. (a simple I am interested and this is my guild or I am independent) This is so we can keep some record of what should be discussed. After we have received what we feel are enough participants, the next steps will proceed, being representation. That is how each guild or independent should be represented, or if another form of representation is better.
Since this game offers a worldwide audience multiple ideals can merge and hopefully create something new and exciting.
Please register here or send me a message, and if enough game members are willing then our emails will be posted for commits to be sent to. Anyone willing to deicate their time to reading ideals and compressing them for group topics are welcome to join my staff for this undertaking. Also do to a 24 hour/time zone difference people from different regions would be of great assistance. Remember, we do not want to be the leader; we want to find a new way to define the leader!
Thank You
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If this is a complete player-initiative, it doesn't belong in the Wishlist. Moving elsewhere (http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3914/smilebp2.gif)
Also, keep in mind that Yliakum already has a government... and something like this may be going against the settings of the game.
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If this is a complete player-initiative, it doesn't belong in the Wishlist. Moving elsewhere (http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3914/smilebp2.gif)
Also, keep in mind that Yliakum already has a government... and something like this may be going against the settings of the game.
Unless if powerful and numberful enough to build a city in the no man lands beyond the Stone Labyrinths(But they are not the only ones willing to do that in the future)
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Two quick questions:
1. What's the point of a government with absolutely no power to follow through with any laws, decrees or mandates it comes up with? Dueling only works if the other party accepts, and RPing these rules can only work if each individual character let's them work. And without the entire community involved in this government (which is impossible unless forced through mechanics), there is no incentive to follow the rules, since those who don't will always have the advantage.
2. What type of 'experiment' is this? Sociological, psychological, political or what?
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1 - This isn't Civilization IV although I hope some kind of "empire building" will be available in the future
2 - Not sure, perhaps "experiment" is just a fancy name for having fun
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I am shocked at the overwhelming attitude that dueling, and therefore killing, is the only way to enforce the law in a game. As it is now, perhaps it is the only feature that could be used to do so, but I hope and pray the Devs have something else in mind.
But, as far as a government run by players goes -right now- they are as powerless as the guilds that would form them. simply put, no one has to listen to them. In fact, more people will oppose the player government than support it, just for the fact that they are ‘evil’ or some such.
On the other hand, I must say medieval guilds can, and did form their own governments within or along side existing governments, so the ‘against the settings’ argument falls a little short. :) Take a look at the Unions of today. They have an entire government hired and run just for them. And they -do- have true power. Unions help, or sometimes force laws into being. That is my opinion on how guilds should actually work.
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I am shocked at the overwhelming attitude that dueling, and therefore killing, is the only way to enforce the law in a game. As it is now, perhaps it is the only feature that could be used to do so, but I hope and pray the Devs have something else in mind.
But, as far as a government run by players goes -right now- they are as powerless as the guilds that would form them. simply put, no one has to listen to them. In fact, more people will oppose the player government than support it, just for the fact that they are ‘evil’ or some such.
On the other hand, I must say medieval guilds can, and did form their own governments within or along side existing governments, so the ‘against the settings’ argument falls a little short. :) Take a look at the Unions of today. They have an entire government hired and run just for them. And they -do- have true power. Unions help, or sometimes force laws into being. That is my opinion on how guilds should actually work.
That's how the Black Sun Union is intended to work(Although it won't be an Union on the modern sense of the word of workers union)
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Hello Gamers,
I am Prof. Houser. It was one of my students that recommended this game to me and once I started playing I found it very interesting. It would give us, my students and I at Ajou University a chance to pool information from a world wide theater and try to compile it for an interesting thesis. Our goal is to see if there could be a world view for a government and where else is better than plane shift to put it into action? I hope more people will draw interest and join in. Thanks for your time.
*edit*
If this is a complete player-initiative, it doesn't belong in the Wishlist. Moving elsewhere (http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3914/smilebp2.gif)
Also, keep in mind that Yliakum already has a government... and something like this may be going against the settings of the game.
This is exactly our point. The NPC represents the constant and we the gamers are the variables. Together we could figure out something authentic.
*edit*
1 - This isn't Civilization IV although I hope some kind of "empire building" will be available in the future
2 - Not sure, perhaps "experiment" is just a fancy name for having fun
No not at all we are very serious about putting this together! If we can can enough of a membership we plan to work this out!
*edit*
I am shocked at the overwhelming attitude that dueling, and therefore killing, is the only way to enforce the law in a game. As it is now, perhaps it is the only feature that could be used to do so, but I hope and pray the Devs have something else in mind.
But, as far as a government run by players goes -right now- they are as powerless as the guilds that would form them. simply put, no one has to listen to them. In fact, more people will oppose the player government than support it, just for the fact that they are ‘evil’ or some such.
On the other hand, I must say medieval guilds can, and did form their own governments within or along side existing governments, so the ‘against the settings’ argument falls a little short. :) Take a look at the Unions of today. They have an entire government hired and run just for them. And they -do- have true power. Unions help, or sometimes force laws into being. That is my opinion on how guilds should actually work.
Yes this is a good point and I will take note of it. But do not forget that every Guild has the option to bully or start warfare with each other.even if the other side can refuse. Though an establishment this could be settled in other manners!?
*edit*
Two quick questions:
1. What's the point of a government with absolutely no power to follow through with any laws, decrees or mandates it comes up with? Dueling only works if the other party accepts, and RPing these rules can only work if each individual character let's them work. And without the entire community involved in this government (which is impossible unless forced through mechanics), there is no incentive to follow the rules, since those who don't will always have the advantage.
2. What type of 'experiment' is this? Sociological, psychological, political or what?
And another thing. The power is invetsed in the guild to inforce their subjects. You do have the power!
[ Please avoid making one post right after the other in the same thread. Just "Modify" your first post to add more information. --Karyuu ]
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I am shocked at the overwhelming attitude that dueling, and therefore killing, is the only way to enforce the law in a game.
I always assumed that unless otherwise specified, duels were just a test of skill, and weren't to the death. After all, if you know someone CAN kill you, you're likely to repent before they actually DO.
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It might be an idea to start a new online-interactive game for the sole purpose of the project. Just a thought.
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It might be an idea to start a new online-interactive game for the sole purpose of the project. Just a thought.
An Civilization or Sim City-esque game with Roleplay elements perhaps.
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Not at all, if we come together as a unit we can figure out ways to stabilize characteristics of the game such as pricing or other issues that people are concerned about. You don’t have to have a program establish to reach this goal. We are the program. This is absolutely feasible.
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We're all about chance operations and oportunism here.:)
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*points to guilds like the Dark Empire*
Somehow I doubt you're the first to think of something like this. Uniting the full player pool of Planeshift under one governement can only be enforced by game mechanics however. We don't have the restrictions of real life in the game world and most of us are there to have fun. Being bossed around when you know you don't have to be and you know nobody can really harm you is not in the interest of fun :P
In a world where pain and death are non-existent you'll have a very hard time forcing those that don't want to listen, to listen.
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@joshua6021
There's still an empty space for a truly "Lawful Evil" kind of government - [Organization]. An 1984-esque Orwellian Police State(or with the proper olde naming: Despotism) ruled by a political party or aristocracy, with a secret police, a disinformation agency spreading lies, a military part aways in wars and an economic part always distributing supplies to the masses with several cut downs on basic resources(Yliakum is not enoughly dystopian ).
And also, if it is some kind of sociological experiment, it cannot be complete without several both failed and successful revolutions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution) neither without conflicts, strifes, mass strikes, civic marches, crackdowns among other consequences of social, political and cultural conflicts...
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@joshua6021
There's still an empty space for a truly "Lawful Evil" kind of government - [Organization]. An 1984-esque Orwellian Police State(or with the proper olde naming: Despotism) ruled by a political party or aristocracy, with a secret police, a disinformation agency spreading lies, a military part aways in wars and an economic part always distributing supplies to the masses with several cut downs on basic resources(Yliakum is not enoughly dystopian ).
And also, if it is some kind of sociological experiment, it cannot be complete without several both failed and successful revolutions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution) neither without conflicts, strifes, mass strikes, civic marches, crackdowns among other consequences of social, political and cultural conflicts...
The only thing needed is an open mind and what is being metioned here are veiws of past and real situations. One must think out of the my my friend ???
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One thing to keep in mind is that not all of the developers intentions for government are currently being expressed through the NPCs. Social experiment is good (and hopefully fun!) but it is also difficult if you end up in conflict with a structure that has essentially limitless resources (i.e. a government/legal system that the NPCs and presumably all the invisible inhabitants of Yliakum respect) I would expect that a functional government would end up working with (and maybe for or through) powerful guilds, but at this point an emergent government would not be empowered to "govern" concerns outside the area of setting social norms within Planeshift.
Despite that, I encourage people to try things that are challenging and novel, since within the area of "social convention" there is a lot of room to create a great atmosphere or establish conventions that propagate because they enhance people's experience of the world. Joshua6021, you might find that it is challenging to build a critical mass of people who are willing to consciously participate, but if you can build up a quasi-stable-multi-faction-inter-guild dynamic (my poor hyphen key!) that is built around the concepts of the game world, then you're awesome :)
A quick disclaimer, I'm speaking only for myself and not in any official capacity for anyone else on the developer or GM teams.
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The first and truly very difficult task for this to be accomplished is for a group of people that can actively think out of the box to come together. I have recently been introduced to a group know as the SCOY which I feel could be a great starting point. Remember this is a RPG game and a very open and free one at that. We each come from different regions, backgrounds and ideals. My purpose is not to change any existing establishments but to build on them. In real life we have freedoms to strike or overthrow the government but this is not the case here. We can’t just tell our boss or teachers to disappear without some consequences. In this game we can, which creates a very tough obstacle to overcome. As well the economy is being worked on an invisible scale. One person feels their gods are worth more or less than others. I know everyone can make a weapon and sell it for what ever price they wish but if the guilds can be brought together we could work on a Parecon economic like system less divided than the one we have now. Back to the topic, I only wish for players to meet or send ideals for solutions. Very often I see a thread created and within two replies it is completely off topic. It is important to focus if a compromise is to be founded. We can set the standards and create the future here! There are many players that wish to do this alone. Together we can do it!