PlaneShift
Support => Complaint Department => Topic started by: kimhari on February 23, 2007, 12:56:07 am
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This isn't exactly a complaint but definitely something that is bothering me a lot.
I love the fact that crafting has been introduced, but the fact that ANYONE can make a top quality weapon in one day has completely destroyed the market (I made three in my first day of crafting). I think crafting is great, but in order to make higher level weapons surely one would need to have a high level of sword making? As I understand it a 300/300 squality Short Sword does roughly the same damage as an Iron Short Sword?!
Iron short swords used to sell for at the very least 80 to 100k, often a lot more. These crafted weapons have flooded the market and made it almost impossible for long standing merchants to make a living, which is why it bothers me personally :) They are being sold for as little as 5 or 6k on occasion.
Like I said, crafting is great, but I think the current work in/reward ratios need some serious adjustment to stabalise the market, which is one of the biggest features of Yliakum. Just my opinion.
Kimhari
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In other words: Someone who just passed his first day as an apprentice of a famous smith can make a master-crafted short sword.
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Well, recently I contacted someone from who I knew he could repair swords. He declined my offer for the repair and said I could better buy some new swords. I asked 3 more times on several occasions all with the same results. Is anyone even bothering to repair stuff these days? :P
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As I understand it a 300/300 squality Short Sword does roughly the same damage as an Iron Short Sword?!
Iron short swords used to sell for at the very least 80 to 100k, often a lot more.
Note that now 250/250 Quality value is the current maximum for legal use of Player Crafted Weapons in all forms of Combat.
Note also, that since the Mini Wipe following the huge Items Duplication Bug Exploit... the maximum amount of money that can be carried in a characters Inventory is set at 150,000 Trias
These are the likely reasons why prices have down-shifted to the levels we have now.
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What makes iron weapons so special? Why should they be so expensive? It's just iron.
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The problem with repairing weapons Thom is it can take so long unless it has changed. I have a few repair kits hanging around though so ask me if you see me.
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As I understand it a 300/300 squality Short Sword does roughly the same damage as an Iron Short Sword?!
Iron short swords used to sell for at the very least 80 to 100k, often a lot more.
Note that now 250/250 Quality value is the current maximum for legal use of Player Crafted Weapons in all forms of Combat.
Note also, that since the Mini Wipe following the huge Items Duplication Bug Exploit... the maximum amount of money that can be carried in a characters Inventory is set at 150,000 Trias
These are the likely reasons why prices have down-shifted to the levels we have now.
People are selling 300/300s left and right, and so far as i know 150k is NOT the max, there IS no max so far as i know.
Thom i have several people in my guild that repair wpns. Seek me out if you ever need one fixed.
Also, a 300/300 is NOT as strong as iron wrt slashing. Iron dags are slash 6, whereas 300/300 dags are approx slash 4. I do almost 100dmg more per attack with Iron vs 300's, and 100 more still with SW's. (200str, lvl 50 daggers)
I agree with first post of thread.
Lvl 1 crafter should max at 50/50
Lvl 2 75/75
lvl 3 100/100, etc, etc so on down the line.
This would make true mastercrafted weapons far, far more valuable.
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Yeah there's no max tria limit he must of meant what most people were left with after the wipe.
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Hmm,
The tria cap did exist after the mini wipe, so I asked a GM about it, 2 days ago I believe, and he told me that it still exists.
But hey, even GMs are human, so he could have been wrong ;). Actually, I really hope so. :lol:
And about the new max Q for self crafted weapons... there was a reducing to 250/250 for all existing, self crafted weapons about a week ago, but one can make new weapons with 300/300 again, so 250/250 is at least not the max Q in general, and the ones I made haven't been reduced since then. That 250 really IS the currently max allowed Q for selfcrafted weapons, is news to me to be honest. Anyway, if so, the price for crafted weapons will fall once again, and through the basement, but the devs should know, what they are doing... :whistling:
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Well.... I stand corrected:
I've been working hard at the Gold Mine since making my previous post in this thread... and I took my Trias on my character up to 151,820 -then I logged out for 5 minutes...
logging back in, I found that I still had 151,820 Trias in my characters inventory! :)
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There is no tria cap of any type. And max quality on all weapons unless changed recently is still 300/300
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Yeah Caarrie they put it to 250/250 now. :)
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I just verified with a few people and in the last few days they have made 300 quality weapons so sorry gharan you are wrong
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I didn't state it was making them, all my 300 have went 250 and everyone else i've asked. I haven't made a weapon for a while so I wouldn't know about making them atm. :)
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i have to agree with kimhari here as you all know i have sold wepons in and got into it and hopefully a good name for myself always sealing cheaper than other of the profestion. i can make weapons and would like a higher price put on them i mean yeah ok i have been selling fairly low atm to try makeing some tria and continueing on the way i originaly planned alliva to go. but we really need a band of ppl to watch out for the econamy you see everyone either sells way to high makeing it very expensive to buy new things also hurting the econamy. but then you have the problem of ppl comeing in trying to make tria on the side with a price 50 k lower than an established merchant makeing it harder for other to sell there cause of ppl whineing about how they bought one cheaper 2 days ago of someone else. although i like to sell my weapons on cheaper they do need to be raised to create a lvl of were players are getting what they deserve without robbing each other blind {witch i have saw all to many times}. But has to be low enough for ppl to buy and fairly readaly afford witch brings you to the next hurdle of allowing for competition. so what basicaly has to be done is high enough to make a living and to allow players to undercut other generateing competition while still makeing it profetable and still keeping it low enough for others to buy. {dont know if all that makes sence]. but haveing the lvl linked to qaulity not allowing for refolding would be a very nice start to helping in this situation.
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Thats a bug - crafting should be deducting from quality based on lack of skills about 100x more then it actually is - we will fix that as soon as we can.
That will allowed the skilled player to create much better quality items then the unskilled.
Please let me know if you think the new numbers are more ballanced. Thanks.
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Thats great news.
Could we get an update when this bug is fixed?
Thankyou,
Kimhari
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Thats a bug - crafting should be deducting from quality based on lack of skills about 100x more then it actually is - we will fix that as soon as we can.
That will allowed the skilled player to create much better quality items then the unskilled.
Please let me know if you think the new numbers are more ballanced. Thanks.
If that is to be the case then I think a master blacksmith (Say, lvl 30 in both blacksmithing and sword-making, as an example) should be able to make weapons a lot more powerful than those carried by random rogues and gladiators (i.e. higher than 300/300). It wouldn't make sense if you have to spend millions of tria and PP just to be able to make weapons that are on-par with an iron shortsword...
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erm mererald fold no. and anyway 300/300 qaulity 2/ weapons are rougly as strong as irons witch are over powerd the qaulity above say 100 should only be for the act that they last long yes they do more dmg than standard but the dmged delt should stop after the weapon gise iver 100 - 150 quality.
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Actually the maximum quality and damage on the weapons crafted should be the work of a master blacksmith (a character maxed in blacksmith skill).
If we look at the incremental way the magic system and other skills works, then it becomes apparent that progression in blacksmith should be an incremental climb, starting with basic swords and other weapons that have maybe two times basic quality as a start, and ending with the weapons that hit like irons with the maximum quality rating.
So, a first level blacksmith could produce a short sword at 100 quality, that hits maybe twice as good as a regular short sword, but the process of then going to the maximum damage and quality would be a long, incremental climb.
If anything, tweaking the numbers in that direction would produce a satisfying experience to a weapons crafter, and it would help to bring the market back in line.
Unfortunately, before Black Monday, the weapons prices in game were out of control. Vast sums of tria were being traded with no basis for knowing what a tria or a weapon was really worth. An economy must have a perspective, in other words there needs to be a solid low and high for values.
Factoring in slash and quality on NPCs that trade in weapons, so that a Silverweave is not only worth 160 tria (or whatever it is) from Harnquist, would at least give us a starting point. I have always thought of value as starting with my own valuation of 10k per slash (and that is LOW compared to what I have seen in game).
(Of course everything posted on this board is IMHO. Please don't argue, just work the ideas, TomT will take it from there. This is just my two bits.)
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Swords cost too much for the set economy. The reason is that training costs way too much (1 tria = about $0.50 USD. Figure it out.) People are spending a greater amount in the game to become good fighters than it takes to send several surgens through the best shools in the country. In real life, that is.
Second reason is money is too easy to come by. It is easy to become filty rich in just a few days of playing.
I think training should cost far less, and nothing at all in some cases (such as mining, farming, or slow self-training in most other skills), and money should be harder to come by. Food should cost more, and be used as training and stamina buffs, not for healing. Potions should also cost more, as should glyphs and training for magic, as I see these as mastery skills that can not be learned from anyone but a master of the craft.
On swords themselves:
A new high quality sword should not do any more damage than a new low quality sword of the same design and sharpness. If they look the same, weigh about the same, and have a sharp edge, they will do the same amount of damage on soft tissue. However the low qualty sword will dull faster, and lose damage ability faster. It could also break. The Higer quality would survive harder hits on harder materials woithout getting dull or breaking.
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Since the server has been restarted two things have been fixed.
It is no longer possible to make high quality steel stock by hammering cold stock repeatedly on the anvil. It will need to be reheated and then reworked to remove the impurities. Even then it will take much longer to reach the quality that was reached in a short time before. Or at least that is the plan.
Also, now the effect of skills on quality is more like what we originally planned. We had a problem with a misplaced decimal place. (At least we are not launching satellites.) This means we will need to get some more craft skill trainers out there as soon as we can.
On swords themselves:
A new high quality sword should not do any more damage than a new low quality sword of the same design and sharpness. If they look the same, weigh about the same, and have a sharp edge, they will do the same amount of damage on soft tissue. However the low qualty sword will dull faster, and lose damage ability faster. It could also break. The Higer quality would survive harder hits on harder materials woithout getting dull or breaking.
Don’t get me started on condition verses quality! :)
Someday I may wear down the powers that be and get something like what you suggest put into place, but for now there are definitely bigger fish to fry.
Please let a GM or me know if there are any more shortcuts to grand quality.
Thanks.
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I have an idea about training that could work fine for job skils and for magic as well.
Instead of paying to learn and develop a skill, your character could become an apprentice for a master crafter or for a wizard, and assist him sometimes in the daily tasks (heating stocks, magical experiments, etc) in exchange of his knowledges on the area.
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That would work great, but in that case PPs should be harder to gain or skills more difficult to train, and the value of gold ore would need to be greatly reduced. Maybe some NPCs could still offer training for a SMALL fee. I think it is a bit unrealistic that character can't teach other ones the skills they have already learned, and only NPCs can do that. And if characters are able to train others, the payment for training would be useless, as many would offer it for free anyway. First of all, it would stabilize the economy as it makes it independent from the training system. One of the reason why prices dropped so greatly, is that most of the money is spent on training, since a huge bunch of new trainers got available. The money would stay in circulation, not appearing into the apperently huge bags of the NPCs.
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Can anyone tell me why, players who have high Blacksmithing skill and those who have low are getting the same quality stock when refining? Also, quality of stock just keeps going down not up????? I think the dev's "overfixed" this crafting issue. Now crafting is down, NPCS is down, you leave VERY VERY little room for reasons to continue to play this game. Maybe you could boost morale by some GM events, RPing.. etc.....
:oops:
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You'll have to do the RPing part for yourself ;). Quality goes down when your mental stamina is not full. If it is full, the quality goes up. The quality of the current crafted weapons is bugged. Check the whole thread.