PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: steuben on February 23, 2007, 05:20:45 am
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okay kiddies, it is time to coin a new word for players everywhere.
sunrise, really doesn't exsist in yliakium. since, well the sun doesn't move, it can't rise. and well the wax and wane of the sun is just too poetic for most cases.
dawn is a good standby, but really there should be a few more words then just that to describe it.
any suggestions?
and if you are feeling particularly ambiscious maybe words for noon and midnight as well.
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Sunrise: Azure's-morn
Midday: Azure's-crest
Sunset: Azure's-eve
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This is a medieval world. We could look into some Old English words for light, day, brightness, luminous, darkness, dimness, and so on. I've only made my answer upon actually sitting down on a grassy hill outside of Hydlaa waiting for the days to pass, soaking in all of the beauty of the brightness and dimness of this level of Yliakum. Ive like the ideas of morn and eve. Morn is relates beautifully with the Old English language and so does eve. Lets look at this question from a commoner's view.. how will what we call this affect the social aspects of the daily life? Morn would be great for a time of the day. It has the use of when to wake up, when to start a new, and when to eat our first meal. However Morn is an idea of time, not a physical scientific phenomenon.We don't commonly say "Good Sunrise" What does does our crystal do? It radiates light. It doesn't move. It gets brighter and dimmer. It has a Maximum brightness and a maximum dimness. It doesn't have a crest because it doesn't move in the sky, its always at its highest point. Crest could be used if we chart out a brightness vs time graph and connect the dots. It would have a crest there. But would this world accept Crest? I believe so. It makes
Does our Azure sun gradually get brighter and dimer, throughout the day or night? What i have observed is that our sun dims down throughout the day after its brightest peak till its dimmest peak. There becomes an orangish glow to the land after 3 PM.
Since our sun doesn't completely diminish its light, we can't possibly say it is a new sun everyday. We can say that it is dyeing every night and after it has rested its power, it gains strength again till it has given us all it can for that day. Will this idea of our sun dyeing a good thing for the rest of the people in Yliakum? Will this idea invoke fear among the masses? Maybe lets use a better term like Recuperating. If your mother were to say to you at night, Say your prayers so that Laanx will give you a good healing. This would associate night and healing. Healing is a marvolus word for the dimming of our sun.
My suggestions are
RL Term Scientific Term Common Phrases
Sunrise: Azure's Becuman (becoming) Good Morn, Morn'n to ye.
Midday: Azure's Crown (The highest Good after noon (noon being an
most perfect Old English word and meaning brightest)
state)
Sunset: Azure's healen (healing) Good healen to you brother.
Midnight: Azure's Revival (the healing Wow, its midnight. (since day and night are concepts already common)
is complete)
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I don't get how it can be called the Azure Sun if it is constantly dimming and brightening, and thusly changing colours :P
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Because its what makes day and night, Thing of it as a lightbulb, it stays bright, and then slowly dims. [if you have a diming switch and not just a basic light switch] And then later it comes back on again.
Azure Sun, sun being a term we use today and thus everyone can associate with. I prefer to call it the Azure Crystal, as its a litteral crystal.
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You can not realy define night and day, nor sunrise, nor set. The Crystal operates in two functions only: Brighten, and dimming. Waxing and Waning. The functions teminate in two points only. High and Low. Zenith and Nadir.
For this reason, the only set terms PS could have would relly on the Highest and lowest point, not the apperance and vanishing of the sun in the morning and evening.
So, this is how they would likely see it:
PS term====Full dark-------------Midrise-----------High----------Midfall-----------Fulldark-----------etc.....
RL equiv===(Midnight)----------(morning)-------(Noon)---------(Evening)----------(midnight)-------
light level=====================================================
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Zenith and Nadir. Beautiful. And I loved the terms for the hours... Thank you, UtM.
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and everyone would have to say "good afterhigh Harnquist."
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Well, it has a good ring to it.
Afterhigh ta ye harnquist!
But then again garanot means goodnight in stonebreaker, so whats afterhigh in stonebreaker O,o
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Just as the term "sun" has, according to the settings, been brought from the worlds the original settlers came from eons ago, the terms "morning" and "evening", as well as "sunrise" and such will have travelled, too. Thus, if they decided to refer to the crystal as "azure sun", they will likely not even have thought of the option to call the other events differently. Not outside academic circles, anyway. Plus, the population might just as well have noticed the difference between sun and crystal well after having settled down, so the original terms would have already been applied by custom.
Thus, I don't think that such artificial words would actually have appeared except, as said, in academic circles, used only when one wishes to appear knowledgeable. Maybe for sunrise and sunset, but not morning and evening and such, as they don't depend on moving properties of the source of light.
AFAICS, "zenith" and "nadir" also are terms referring to physical angles (and thus the Azure Sun is always in the zenith), so they, too, wouldn't be usable given this strict definition.
UtM's proposal seems to rely even more on motion than the RL counterparts:
PS term====Full dark (OK)-------------Midrise (rise=motion)-----------High(motion)----------Midfall(falling=motion)-----------Fulldark-----------etc.....
However, the setting says that the crystal doesn't go completely dark at all, so "fulldark" technically isn't correct, either.
It is likely that the terms "sunrise" and "sunset" would either assume the general meaning of "morning" and "evening", or vanish completely, having lost their definition, possibly replaced by "daybreak" and "nightfall" (both marking a time at which light has reached a certain treshold, thus changing with season).
Midnight->Daybreak->Midday(changing meaning to "noon")->Nightfall->Midnight
Or, more artificially (stuff in parenthesis is optional in everyday use):
Mid(d)ark->(morning/early) Halflight->Ful(l(l))ight->(evening/late) Halflight->Mid(d)ark
Though "Halflight" sounds a bit like "Halflife". "Nolight" sounds stupid. ;)
Anyway, I don't think additional terms would have been created.
Edit: one thing about light color: The different color of the sun's light stems from the different distance it travels through the atmosphere at the different times. This is not the case in PS, therefore the crystal's light will vary in intensity but not necessarily in color (unless it passes the light from the surface unaltered, and then only if the surface has an atmosphere).
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I took midrise to mean that it was halfway through rising to its full brightness and Fulldark as the darkest the crystal got.
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I took midrise to mean that it was halfway through rising to its full brightness and Fulldark as the darkest the crystal got.
Aye, this certainly was the intent. However, if we are seeking to remove the notion of motion solely for the sake of being scientifically correct instead of relying on laymen, then we should not use terms that have a motion association, or aren't precise.
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Why not?
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Because the idea behind the OP was that the Yliaki would have had some incentive to create alternative expression. The existing expressions would have sufficed, and most of the population certainly couldn't care less, and instead focus on more important matters like getting food for the next day.
So there must be one of two reasons:
1) a self-important politician wanted to leave a mark in history, nevermind how stupid, or
2) the scientific community decided to coin new phrases for new circumstances, and have these officially used, for precision's sake
IF we are going to use option 1, then obviously all bets and reasoning are off. If using option 2, though, then scientific precision is key. The OP seems to follow option 2, so that's what I'm basing things on.
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But the settings say that its the races that remember the above ground that call it the azure sun. Everyone else calls it the crystal so it seems fair enough that they would come up with diffenrent terms for its phases.
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Please...Correct me if I'm wrong...
Who build Hydlaa? The Xacha people?
Do they came from outside Yliakum, through the Stone Labirynths or so?
Can be possible, that the Xacha people knew the day and night because they lived at the surface, where is the sun and moon and the stars?
I think the low moment of the Crystal is called night because reminds that hour, and the high bright is called day.
The Bronze Doors are named because their structure: bronze and wood...
is the bronze an unique metal of Yliakum or was known at the surface too?
I think some things can't be questionated... Day is day (with sun or without it... think about North Pole, 9 month of darkness but there is a "day" and a "night")
greetings!
EDIT: Ok, I went a little off topic, but I think sunrise and dawn are ok to express the moment because... my explanation, he
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Ylians I think actually. Either that or the Xacha really ripped off their building style.
Edit: http://www.planeshift.it/humans.html <- Look at the Ylian art.
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It was both by the look of it. The temple and libary style buildings, Xacha and the houses being Yilan.
*edit*
and the winch looks Xacha to me
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And... extracted from the settings page in the planeshift site (http://www.planeshift.it/setting.html)
[...]
Named the Azure Sun by those races that still remember the surface
[...]
Measuring Time
The Crystal draws its light from the surface and thus Yliakum is subjected to times of "day" and "night". However, even at night, it is not completely dark. The level of the lake, which rises and falls in an extremely consistent manner, measures hours.
:whistling:
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It was both by the look of it. The temple and libary style buildings, Xacha and the houses being Yilan.
*edit*
and the winch looks Xacha to me
I'm pretty sure it says in the description of, or when you ask someone about, the Tempe that it was built by Xacha. It's not that we're talking about though.
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I think both oprions has been stated very clearly.
1) Lets make new names as the Crystal doesn't rise or fall
2) Lets keep words like rise and fall, because most races came from surface and they got usd to this wording.
3) A hybryd options. It is called in both maners as a sun which is actually fallind and rising was seen last time a couple centuries ago and some people started calling it in more native way, which stayed.
Tell about all three a setting dev and then learn answer. ;) Don't forget to tell us ;P
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Er...actually, I was not trying to coin any terms. I was just defining the areas that would be named.
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oh, i forgot about your, UtM. Yeah, it does brighten and dimm, but our real sun does it too. Only with our sun it is because of angle and with Azure sun it is literally. But i don't think there is any reason to bad rising and falling because of that. In case you were thinking about it. Frankly, I'm not exactly sure what you meant and if you were speaking to me ;P
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But the settings say that its the races that remember the above ground that call it the azure sun. Everyone else calls it the crystal so it seems fair enough that they would come up with diffenrent terms for its phases.
To get things straight, I was referring to the section that Eagel quoted: "Named the Azure Sun by those races that still remember the surface, it emits a radiation that (...)". To me this sounds more like "these people gave it that name", not like "only those who know the old stories call it that". Especially not if taking into account that Hydlaa is referred to as "City of the azure sun". Not undisputable, but seems most likely to me.
It is possible that the different races have different expressions for it in their native languages (more or less interesting to historians only, though). Lemur and Kran would certainly have needed some name for it. Not sure how scientific that would have been, though. Xacha would be most likely to change the name, but seeing that the other races combined outnumber them, it's not sure their interpretation caught on. All in all, as Nikodemus says, this question would need a definition by the settings team, though it's not of high priority to me, as I am fairly sure I can still use dusk and dawn, etc., as explained.
Edit: @UtM: ah, I misunderstood you, then. Sorry for the confusion!
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Well, I have given it a little thought and came up with this based on the history of this land.
"Hail to thee at Talad in his rising". Sunrise
Sunrise being Talad the form of creation and the beginning of that the rising luminance of the crystal. Also, being male and symbolically solar in nature. Also, Talad being the servant of Vodùl and as his biding could be to brings forth the morning rays of light.
"Hail to thee at the midcourse of Vodùl". Noon
"Hail to thee at Vodùl in his setting". Dusk
Noon and Dusk being Vodùl as god of future events and Master of both Talad and Laanx. More or less to be the overseer of the waking hours for most. This also is to incur balance between Laanx and Talad to separate the day and night.
"Hail to thee at Laanx in her rising". Midnight
Midnight being Laanx also the form of creation but that of nightly workings and the Masquerade of the night as she wonders the stone Labyrinth. Also, the symbology of female being lunar in origin; as well as once being consort of Vodùl. He leaving in the dusk to be with Laanx.
This would of course be symbolic to most Yliakumites or whatever you prefer to call the peoples of this world. This is more as to pay reverence to the gods that started Yliakum. The Crystal symbolizing all the gods in their manifestation. Also, it is a nice way to teach new people the history of Yliakum IC.
So, IC if someone asks the time you could say, "It is at Talad in his rising" or "It is at the setting of Vodùl" ect.
Just my two cents worth anyhow. Just thought I would be more constructive in providing a possible solution than over debating the point of what is This or That. Also, I know most people may not know of Vodùl nonetheless some do and may use these saying as a greeting of the day.
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Vodúl is pretty much unknown of by the common man as far as I know.