PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Volund on March 12, 2007, 10:05:59 am
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For starters Im going to ask, do words like "fenki" or "menki" offend you? Many would probably say no, why? because all it means is woman enkiduai and man enkiduai, nothing more. No racism. Apparently people dont understand someone will call you what race you are if they dont know your name because tags are not IC. I called a enkiduai fenki IC and her and a friend took it offensively, saying racism in intollerable, that I will die, all i did was counter all their arguments and gave an example of dwarvesbane. Shut em up real fast.
Alot of players are fast to angry words of honor and respect. They always want a fight. Except many dont have a real reason through their roleplay. Use common sense on them and they go on about their honor, I'd rather save my hide and log off. To the point, many people dont seem what to comprehend what are stereotypes. Why? Should we give them a manual? NO. They need to use their common sense, apply real life issues and figure it out. Im tired of explaining over and over and receiving a "Oh I didnt know ;)". Ill say well have fun being ignored buddy. I dont care about jokes OOC or whatever, but im tired of getting attacked for misunderstandings about common practices, words etc.
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menki...fenki... discussion.....: http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=26801.0
Racism would be one race hating another race. Characters can be distasteful of certain other races, tis fine, but claiming an entire race hates another one is not.
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I find this thread highly unusual... sorry... but racism in ps... would really only be affected IC'ly. OOC jokes about pointy ears calling it racism is just retarded, unless you're mentally ill and think you are an elf.
Racism would be calling black people niggas. But that belongs in the hydlaa plaza. And since racism isn't tolerated by the rules it will be locked.
Requesting lock as there's allready a thread on racism IC'ly
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I think what he's saying is, he's tired of people just inventing reasons to be offended IC.
Somebody just feels like RPing an offended person, so they just pounce on the first thing they perceive as 'racist', even though it isn't actually (like the word fenki). Then you have to OOCly explain to them why their character shouldn't be offended by that just to avoid a duel...
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Post deleted for pointless argument over word choice. (Quoting from the dictionary should be a red flag to anyone tempted to do so. :-) )
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http://www.planeshift.it/diaboli.html (http://www.planeshift.it/diaboli.html)
Diaboli are a happy, bustling, malicious race, quite unreliable. Humility is completely foreign concept to them. Their familiarity with some of the semi-intelligent races that dwell in the Stone Labyrinths has raised suspicion with the other races.
With such description, at least some small form of prejudice will exist against Diaboli.
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http://www.planeshift.it/diaboli.html (http://www.planeshift.it/diaboli.html)
Diaboli are a happy, bustling, malicious race, quite unreliable. Humility is completely foreign concept to them. Their familiarity with some of the semi-intelligent races that dwell in the Stone Labyrinths has raised suspicion with the other races.
With such description, at least some small form of prejudice will exist against Diaboli.
evil races..hmm diaboli on the horde and the humans on the alliance?
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My character does not know racism (like it is stated in the settings) ... he doesn't understand how one race bands together and finds others inferior and he thinks that all who do act that way are not quite well in their heads. Thus they'll be treated with a mild neglect or with an iron fist, depending on which works best :P
Racism should not exist ... but apparently it's so prominent in humanity that this seems impossible to do. Shame on us all!
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Racism should not exist ... but apparently it's so prominent in humanity that this seems impossible to do. Shame on us all!
Exactly. But racism is fun - I think it can add colour to an RP (no pun intended :P)
'Racism' and other forms of discrimination are a very natural part of any society, from birds to Muslims.
Kind of like how people tend to band together and discriminate against racists...
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But it does not exist in this univese. This one our characters occupy.
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But it does not exist in this univese. This one our characters occupy.
Really? Everyone are living in mutual happiness?
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As far as tolerating what race someone is, yes. Completely.
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It is racism unless it's towards Kran. The definition of "species" is: "all individuals that are able to interbreed and produce fertile offspring". Since all races in PS except the Kran are able to do so (and frequently do), all Yliaki except Kran are one single species, and thus the terms "race" and "racism" are correct.
But racism is fun - I think it can add colour to an RP
Racism is the cheapest, least creative and least interesting way of creating conflict (even world domination is more creative, if only slightly). This is also why it is so common (both IRL and in RPGs): you don't have to think at all. I agree that racism can, if done well and backed by the settings, make for some interesting RP. However, in PS it is not backed by the settings (as has been stated already), nor is it usually done even close to "well".
Add to this that it's a very over(ab)used idea, and really the only benefit it has is that it generates quick conflict (with duelling usually being the ultimate goal), which is in itself highly questionable in terms of both RP and realism.
I don't understand why people equate "lack of racism" to "no conflict at all". There are many more sources of conflict, ranging from economical differences to personal dislike. Also, a conflict is more interesting if it keeps boiling, instead of the hot but swiftly faded flame of a duel (especially if it's merely using the combat system). I suspect that people who require a constant supply of duelling have left their characters too shallow, so that they cannot define the character's reaction to anything but combat.
Xenophobia is a good point. It can be argued to be one of the supportive factors in racism. However, it cannot occur between the races / species in Yliakum due to the very high, almost complete, mixing. Even without interbreeding, Kran are an everyday occurance just like any of the races.
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Post deleted for pointless argument over word choice and definition of breeding, genetics in Yliakum, etc.
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For common genetic rules, any half-breed will have a prevailing race that will determine its physical traits. For this reason, the main races are relatively pure. In other words, it can't happen that the races merge together forming a single mixed race: if someone has a lemur father and an elf mother, he will belong to one race or to the other.
All races aside the Kran can breed. An Ylian and an Enkidukai could technically produce a child, but it will either be fully Ylian or fully Enkidukai. Trying to explain this all with our Earthly sciences is an exercise in time-wasting, for the most part. This is Yliakum, don't try to look too hard into it.
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Trying to explain this all with our Earthly sciences is an exercise in time-wasting, for the most part. This is Yliakum, don't try to look too hard into it.
:o) Wasnt even gonna try with that one
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« Last Edit: 13:54:26 - 15.03.2007 (Thu) by Vengeance »
Post deleted for pointless argument over word choice and definition of breeding, genetics in Yliakum, etc.
If genetics are 1) pointless and 2) not applicable in Yliakum, then why is it mentioned on the settings page? If in Yliakum "genetics" is so radically different from IRL, then maybe it does deserve special description in the settings. Also, realism and predictability / inter / extrapolation still requires that things are thought through and explainable by at least pseudoscience. An immersive virtual world must be able to be looked into deeply / behind the scenes and not lose consistency. >:[
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Post deleted for pointless argument over word choice and definition of breeding, genetics in Yliakum, etc.
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Racism is not fun at all, it is like someone said the cheapest way of conflict there is. It is based on nothing but narrowmindedness and a history of conquest.
Racism does also not equal conflict .. it may be very common in reality but it simply isn't in Yliakum. There is no questioning or arguing that. The settings state that racism does not exist, so racism does not exist .. in no single form. Inhabitants of Yliakum all see eachother as one big race, one big happy family ... but just because you're a family doesn't mean you can't have family members you like less than others ;)
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When you have difference - no matter what that difference is - you'll have discrimination.
1. I discriminate against chocolate ice cream because I prefer the taste of vanilla ice cream.
2. What if someone made a living selling chocolate ice cream, and then they saw me going around telling all my friends vanilla is much better?
3. He then gets all his friends, who like chocolate, to stop dealing with anyone who doesn't like chocolate, in order to boost the sales lost because of the new vanilla movement.
4. The people who like vanilla then get pissed off, because they are no longer able to deal with anyone just because they like vanilla, so they start their own boycott against chocolate.
5. The chocolate-lovers then build a giant wall across town to separate themselves from the vanilla-lovers, and declare their side "Chocoland". The other side declares themselves "Vanillaville".
6. Thus racism is born: The Chocasians and the Vanillians both hate each other for the next 20 generations, never really understanding why.
Discrimination is something so inherent in our society, that without it, Ylian society would be something completely unrecognisable to us. As above, discrimination can come in varying degrees (1-6, for example) it seems strange to remove one form of discrimination, but not remove the 100 others. If 'Yliaki' discriminate against everything else, why wouldn't they discriminate against race, the most obvious of them all? It makes no sense.
Were 'no racism' to be a viable option, you would have to declare that there's no such thing as 'free thought' in Yliakum, and we're all mindless drones...
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Racism isn't something to build a roleplay around in PlaneShift. So it's simple: don't do it. You can avoid it and have an absolute blast. You can never step near it and build stories and worlds beyond usual imagination. Racism isn't a necessary part of the formula. Distrust is not racism. Disagreement on preferences is not racism. In Yliakum, although some races may be wary of others, they do not hate, discriminate, nor abuse.
If this concept gives you difficulty, I weep.
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Racism isn't something to build a roleplay around in PlaneShift. So it's simple: don't do it. You can avoid it and have an absolute blast. You can never step near it and build stories and worlds beyond usual imagination. Racism isn't a necessary part of the formula. Distrust is not racism. Disagreement on preferences is not racism. In Yliakum, although some races may be wary of others, they do not hate, discriminate, nor abuse.
But what IS racism? Where's the point at which distrust/caution becomes racism?
If I have an irrational fear of the colour blue, I would thusly hate to be around Kran. Is it racist that I would request that all Kran stay away from me because of this fear?
How about if my family was massacred by an enkidukai when I was three years old? Psychologically, a fear and hatred of anything that resembles an enkidukai would most likely arise. In fact, it would be bizarre if I didn't have an inherent distrust for enkidukai.
And that's just an extreme case.
Little kids on the playground are constantly discriminating against each other for reasons far less than one having red skin and horns :P If there was a little diaboli kid in a Xacha village, the Diaboli would be picked on to death. It's not necessarily a race thing, just a difference thing, like if the horns were braces.
The point is, if we're talking about general, grand-scale political racism, then I agree it shouldn't exist. But if we're talking about individual racist ideals, then that's just illogical. So long as people are able to make their own choices, mentally, there will be people who choose to hate.
If this concept gives you difficulty, I weep.
Hehe, it's not that I like hate/abuse/discrimination, it's just that I'm very skeptical as to how any society can exist without it. Even birds have a 'pecking order', and animals are constantly killing each other over territorial disputes.
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You cannot compare territorial battles in the animal kingdom with racism. Those things don't equate, and I don't understand how you could think to tie them together. If you want a definition of racism, check dictionary.com:
rac·ism
–noun 1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
That belief is not present among any Yliakum races. There are many reasons for conflict, but this is not one of them.
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Shiites and Sunnis are different religious branches, not different races. Irishmen and Englishmen are different nationalities, not races. Discrimination doesn't have to exist in any form, be it by actual racism or prejudice againt people for religion or nationality. Look at people that are ginger and people that are blond. They're different but having spend time togeter and lived together in harmony, as the races in Yliakum have, there is no prejudice.
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My point here is simple: Racism is logical part of the mind. Like everything in nature, it has a purpose, and a place in the world.
I would consider you hypocritical if you then go on to battle racism in real life. And that bothers me.
How hard is it to grasp this concept:
"I hate you because you're a Kran!"
"All Dermorians are weak and should be subjugated by Enkidukai!"
"Ylians demand dominion over all other races!"
These thoughts do not enter into the minds of Yliakum citizens. Anyone who has such thoughts is looked at with disbelief and distrust, and anyone who acts on such thoughts on a massive scale is probably going to visit an Octarch with a one-way ticket.
This is the end of the discussion as far as I am concerned. I don't understand why you would argue for the necessity of something like racism in a game. Is having fun through other conflicts so boring? You want massive strife between different races, go play WoW. If you can't roleplay a character without giving him racist thoughts, you scare me. And if you can, then this whole thread is pointless.
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Personally, I don't care one way or the other
Rest of post deleted for pointless argument over word choice and definition of breeding, genetics in Yliakum, etc. See perfect illustration of pointlessness above. - Venge
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"there is no racism, yet other than that we think exactly like humans".
Hardly - our characters come from a different world, with different traditions, beliefs, and histories. They've different natures. Not different enough to make you think you're roleplaying a completely alien being, but you're not going to be walking around feeling as though you're roleplaying yourself.
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O.o well...my threads down, bye bye!
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Do all forms warfare have to involve physical violence? (http://freethought.homestead.com/Meme.html)
Surely not (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_Warfare)
Is racism wide enough for roleplays that aren't ridiculously repetitive and alike? Or is there other more interesting reasons to provoke conflicts, and not necessarily armed ones?
No, there are better reasons for conflicts:
Ideologies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideology)
Social Classes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_struggle)
Talad X Laanx churches (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_conflict) (They are probably in an uneasy and weak truce, and splinter groups of Laanx followers may get into skirmishes away from the eyes of the law)