PlaneShift
Fan Area => Fan Art => Topic started by: Illysia on April 07, 2007, 08:06:21 am
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Is it posible to contribute models to the game without being a member and if it is, how would you do that? I would love to contribute but I don't know that I would want to be a member since I think members don't get to play the game with everyone else or is that GMs?
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You can play if you're a member of the dev team - the only limitation is that you cannot run a guild. You can still be a member of one, but the leader position is off-limits. The problem everyone runs into however is a lack of time.
Making art contributions is a lot harder than submitting code, because Luca is very specific about the look, object, or character he wants in the game (not to mention its geometry). But I would like to think that it's still possible.. :) You can try sending a PM to either Cherppow or me, and I believe both of us would be happy to look over your model and see if we can convince Luca to accept it, if the quality and construction are good.
Still, since we have no restrictions on not playing the game once you're on the team, you may want to look into filling out our application (http://laanx.fragnetics.com/nexus/newapplicant.php) :)
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The problem about submitting models without being in the team is lack of documentation... how should the model be, geometry, rigging, attitude... it's hard your model will match the requirements if you don't know what they are.
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I would like to see some more specific infos about contributing with models. For example polygon count or what models are required for game now (more weapons, armor models ...)
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Be sure to pay attention to your triangle count, not polygon count when you are modeling. To get an accurate poly count for models intended to be used in games in 3ds Max, for example, you must convert the model to an editable mesh before using the polygon counter. This is because the game engine will view the model in the same way, ie. with triangular faces. The general guidelines for triangle limits are:
100-400 for simple objects (items, weapons) (64x64 - 256x256 texture size)
500-800 for complex objects or simple creatures (256x256 - 512x512 texture size)
800-1.3k for complex creatures (512x512 - 1024x1024 texture size)
1.5k-2k for characters (512x512 - 1024x1024 texture size; body parts split into separate meshes for texturing - left/right arms, left/right hands, torso, legs, left/right boots, head, hair)
As for what models are currently in demand, character models are always welcome until all the races are completed. Several things to keep in mind:
1) the geometry may look clean, but you have to keep in mind that the mesh needs to be animated and bend at certain locations
2) the character model has to follow the 2D image we have on the Races page fairly closely
3) don't UV map, rig, or animate the model until you have the base geometry approved - if you have moved on to further steps but are then told that you need to make fixes to the mesh, you'll be making more work for yourself
4) character hair is a separate mesh and needs to be interchangeable - so model it in a way that will allow a clean detachment from the head, and so that another different hair mesh can fit onto the head cleanly
5) the mouth needs to be able to open and close for animations, so make sure to have a small slit for the lips
6) remember that the majority of detail is created through the texture, so don't try to create everything through the geometry.
Modeling items is a lot simpler, and little things should be welcome at any time - weapons, foods, anything that you feel can add to RP (musical instruments, for example). However, we definitely don't want people to make quick and easy swords and think that they'll be accepted. If you're making an item model, try to make it unusual. I don't think we need any more generic weapons, so push yourself to create some unique concepts.
Character armor meshes are created by modifying the original character meshes, and these are not going to be given out to anyone who isn't on the team, or applying. Certain resources are kept to the dev team alone, understandably. If you have an interesting armor concept, it's going to be easier to have it made if you have a drawing. You yourself may not be able to model if it you're an art contributor instead of art team member, but you may see your concept get used :) Right now only the torso mesh is changing, but some time in the future I think we will have arms and legs follow as well.
I'm not familiar with environmental modeling yet, and this is not something you should attempt without prior discussion with Talad. So stick to items/NPCs/characters. Hope this helps some, and feel free to ask more questions.
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Would be alright to make the model and not texture it because I know any texturing I do is not up PS standards. And how do I actually submit it? (Sorry if this is a stupid question.)
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I adore art-related questions, so keep them coming :D
You can definitely concentrate on modeling or texturing separately - there's no need to be able to do both equally well. We have artists who only texture, so having artists who only model is just fine :)
When it comes to submitting your work, contacting current art devs may be quicker than trying to reach Talad. I'm always around on the forums, for example, so leaving me a PM is definitely possible. Cherppow has been taking care of other things lately, but he should be back soon and contactable in the same way. There's also IRC - server freenode, channel #planeshift. Sundays are a good time, since we have dev meetings and people are bound to be on.
Though I do want to point out that right now, I'm not entirely sure just how willing Talad is to accept art contributions. My goal is to convince him to accept work if I feel it is of good quality, but I can in no way guarantee than anything will be accepted. We'll see what happens once the contributions start coming in :)
And another important thing I should have mentioned right from the start: you will have to agree to the PS license when you submit work. Basically it means that your artwork is going to PlaneShift and PlaneShift alone, and cannot be used in any other projects - showcasing it in a portfolio is fine :) This is to maintain PlaneShift as a unique piece of artwork. We'd hate to see other games using the same assets.
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Also, when it come to food would it best to try to stick with things native to europe for now or can I exercise a little creative license?
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Creative concepts are always better to having something that already exists, I think :] I would stay away from very common dishes - while it's nice to have things like bread, meat, and pie, I know that I would much prefer seeing food that looks to be more fantasy-based and native to Yliakum alone. But, you can create the most awesome bowl of porridge too :D So it's really up to you. The style of PS borrows most heavily from the European medieval era, so any references or similarities to objects on Earth shouldn't deviate to other regions too much. But again, I'd love to see something Yliakum-specific most of all :)
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Is there any chance of helping with animation or armor creation? If yes, are there any tutorials, howto's or etc. ? (I just finished my driving lessons so i have plenty of time now, and I want to help PS a bit. I just started to learn working with Blender :-[ )
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Animations also require having the original models to work with, and I mentioned that this is an internal resource only. So unfortunately, anything that will need the 3D character files is bound to be off-limits for casual contribution.
There are plenty of tutorials on the web, however. And if you want something serious for studying animations, I'd recommend Jeff Lew's animation DVD (http://www.jefflew.com/), as well as anything from Gnomon (http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/) (you can "preview" things like that if you know where to look... :P)
We do need animators, but giving access to our character models requires having a lot of trust and seeing an obvious dedication - that's something Luca decides on (http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/4929/usedusedusedvi7.gif) The only way you might be allowed to contribute in that department is if you show some reallyreallyreally good work and Luca would want to chain you to a high tower to animate for us nonstop (http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6632/grinby0.gif)
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Animations also require having the original models to work with, and I mentioned that this is an internal resource only. So unfortunately, anything that will need the 3D character files is bound to be off-limits for casual contribution.
There are plenty of tutorials on the web, however. And if you want something serious for studying animations, I'd recommend Jeff Lew's animation DVD (http://www.jefflew.com/), as well as anything from Gnomon (http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/) (you can "preview" things like that if you know where to look... :P)
We do need animators, but giving access to our character models requires having a lot of trust and seeing an obvious dedication - that's something Luca decides on (http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/4929/usedusedusedvi7.gif) The only way you might be allowed to contribute in that department is if you show some reallyreallyreally good work and Luca would want to chain you to a high tower to animate for us nonstop (http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6632/grinby0.gif)
"Animations also require having the original models to work with, and I mentioned that this is an internal resource only. So unfortunately, anything that will need the 3D character files is bound to be off-limits for casual contribution."
That's not true, A converter has been made for blender, that allows Everyone to make animations.
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You cant import things from crystal space to blender, so you cant animate the current models.
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You cant import things from crystal space to blender, so you cant animate the current models.
Again, that is wrong, look around, people have been making animations without the source files.Maybe a video of such an animation might open your eyes.
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If you think it can be done then provide us a guide or a link as to how to do it.
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dude, shush is the only advice I can give ;) I dont even know who the hell you are but I still think it is wise advice.
Caarrie, no one will give evidence without the author of the converters explicit permission.
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I know someone has made an importer/exporter for animations - but I don't know how widely it is shared. The individual who created it made some really nice improvements to a couple of current anims, but they don't work properly in viewmesh so it's not perfect. Luca has yet to look over the tweaked anims, I believe, and see if the importer produces acceptable results. I wouldn't get my hopes up about it too much just yet.
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Another thing. Are we still working by the, "if its shown in public it cant be put ingame" and if so whats the reason for that?
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When it comes to models, yes we are. One of the reasons for this is to keep an element of surprise, and I think sometimes to keep people from arguing over the direction of development. "You should be working on this instead!" isn't something we want to waste time reading when we are in the middle of construction of a new zone, for example. Also, if as developers we post screenshots of works in progress, chances are we will get people whining with "When is it going to be finished???" if we don't complete it fast enough. As I player, I loved the "Wow!" feeling I got when an update was released and I got to see all the cool art that's been in the works for a while, and I would want others to experience that as well. I think we do enough public hinting at new features with the CVS change log, so artwork is kept more on the down low to give players eye candy to look forward to. Kind of become PS policy now :) Art = presents. You don't give presents until they are finished, and that would be release time, when they are in their proper setting and ready to be used.
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We'll I ment more from a point of view of submitting art, would something you spotted on the forums and think, 'that'd be nice in planeshift, but oh no, no point even asking them becuase its against the rules" and equaly if someone was trying to make somthing for planeshift but wanted to put it in their art thread so they could get direct feedback.
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When it comes to models, yes we are. One of the reasons for this is to keep an element of surprise, and I think sometimes to keep people from arguing over the direction of development. "You should be working on this instead!" isn't something we want to waste time reading when we are in the middle of construction of a new zone, for example. Also, if as developers we post screenshots of works in progress, chances are we will get people whining with "When is it going to be finished???" if we don't complete it fast enough.
and this doesn't happen when they are released? :P
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No, actually I haven't seen too many people cry "That area isn't done yet, do it faster" :P It's when you give people image teasers that they are more likely to go "Is it there yet? Is it there yet? Is it? Huh? Huh? Huh?"
We'll I ment more from a point of view of submitting art, would something you spotted on the forums and think, 'that'd be nice in planeshift, but oh no, no point even asking them becuase its against the rules" and equaly if someone was trying to make somthing for planeshift but wanted to put it in their art thread so they could get direct feedback.
I think it really depends. When it comes to character or NPC models, making them public is pretty much out. If you want feedback, contact some art devs and they will help you - and be more capable of telling you exactly what improvements you may need than those who don't model for the game, and may not know what geometry changes may be essential. If it's concept art, feel free to show anyone you want. If it's really good, I'll even try to kidnap it for the website :) Small item models are probably okay to post, I think texture changes as well, and environments (which you shouldn't be attempting unless you know what you're doing) fall into the character models category.
The "depends" comes into play here: if you make an absolutely stunning male Lemur model, for example, it would be stupid of us not to accept it just because you've decided to post it on the forums. But it has to be stunning, giving us no room to go "Here is a list of all the changes you have to make." If you're that confidant about your modeling, you shouldn't need to post it for feedback anyway, and instead contact the art team straight away. And I think this can apply to all art - to include it in a release when it's already been shown around, we would have to feel like we'd be missing out on something we cannot afford to. This is a very rare event and I can only remember it happening once.
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Hi,
I pretty much agree with Karyuu. I also hope who ever made this importer would work with the devs. We could certainly use someone with such skills.
No, actually I haven't seen too many people cry "That area isn't done yet, do it faster" :P It's when you give people image teasers that they are more likely to go "Is it there yet? Is it there yet? Is it? Huh? Huh? Huh?"
Indeed, I never get such PMs. Actually I never get any PMs, but that's not important. :)
...environments (which you shouldn't be attempting unless you know what you're doing)...
Well, they aren't that hard. Personally I'd say character models are much harder. They're difficult for different reasons of course. Hardest thing about areas is that they've so much things in them that you can't spend hours after hours fine tuning one single corner. You'll just have to try and make it good enough, fast enough and move on.
Ps. Nice renders on your other thread Illysia.
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But propably seeing some teasers maybe few weeks before the release should be good. I don't think that averything is done just few days before release. For example winch screenshots were available some time before client release and it was great, because many people were wondering what is it.
[joke]Shouldn't you work on finishing the dwarven citadel instead of stupid winches? [/joke]
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Nope, the winch screenshots were available only when the new client was released :] They were taken by those who can run their own private server for testing and who can load any maps on their own, locally.
I understand people like seeing teasers, but knowing how Luca feels about them, and how he is the one controlling all the art assets, I don't really see it happening. It's not an argument I can carry on, either way.
By the way! I've had some really cool models sent to me by someone on this board, and they are almost guaranteed to make it into the release :)
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By the way! I've had some really cool models sent to me by someone on this board, and they are almost guaranteed to make it into the release :)
Sounds great :D Can't wait to see all the nice stuff in the comming release - as usual. /me takes a look at his calendar and .18's release date "Yay, shouldn't be too long anymore!"
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OK. Enough rumours. You can find 3 updated animations here: http://www.faramann.net/
These are
1) death animation for krans
2) death animation for dwarves
3) sneeze-animation for fynnwn
Krans and dwarves should now remain on the floor when they die, and fynnwn should not cut their breast open with their own swords every time they sneeze. Nothing spectacular, but just a taste. Since these animations essentially are in-game already, it should not make any difference if they are published here.
The animations have been tested within my the guild: Elemental Light. Hence, I think they should work. However, please report any problems you might experience so that I can hopefully correct it.
I have also made a couple of others animations, which pose a bigger change to the characters. Hence I choose not to publish them widely yet in a hope that it might be useful to the dev-team. :whistling:
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Hi,
To Ice_Stovo:
Teasers - Aye, a typical area takes month(s) to create, depending a bit on the complexity and availability of free time. Teasers might be fun to see, aye, and fun to share too. Might even be useful in the terms of feedback and motivation. But rules are rules.
Tasks - I can't just decide what to work on, I get the tasks from 3d leader. Sometimes there's few items to choose from, sometimes there isn't. Hmm, which dwarven citadel are you talking about though? [joke]"Lazy dwarves, finish your own village."[/joke] ;)
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Trymm, great idea! would love to see it like.. you descibed it!
well, i extracted my characters.zip, modified your files' names by deleting the "TV" in it and copied both files each into fynnwn, kran and stonem accordingly, and zipped again - the message on trying to start up the game reads something "Server transmits a wrong filename".
i also tried then to leave the names as they were, yet no diffference.. =/
i am running debain/sid (linux), though i wouldnt think that would do for a difference.
any clue whats wrong here?
ps: due to my impatience.. anyone has anims for elves;)?
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well, i extracted my characters.zip, modified your files' names by deleting the "TV" in it and copied both files each into fynnwn, kran and stonem accordingly, and zipped again - the message on trying to start up the game reads something "Server transmits a wrong filename".
i also tried then to leave the names as they were, yet no diffference.. =/
Make sure that you zip the file correctly again. Try this:
1) create a new directory: mkdir tmpdir
2) unzip characters.zip into that directory: cd tmpdir;unzip ../characters.zip
3) copy the modified files into the correct subdirectories. Ensure that they have the correct file names -- might be case sensitive also on the virtual file system that PS uses, I am not sure.
4) create a new zip-file (while you stand in tmpdir): zip ../characters.zip * */*
This should work, and there should not be a difference for linux, though I am using OSX. If you still have problems, send me a PM, and I will see if I can help you out further.
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Well, a bit odd, but doing the same procedure by shell it works now perfectly - thx!!=D
Before i just extraced/zipped per menu in kde - not sure which extractor linked there though..
anyways, looks great, good job!
ps: now i finally have 10 posts and are allowed to send pms at all lol